Greatest lightweights ever

[Welsh Jon]

Last time The Ring magazine complied a list for the greatest lightweights ever (2001) it was

1.Roberto Duran
2.Benny Leonard
3.Pernell Whitaker
4.Joe Gans
5.Ike Williams
6.Joe Brown
7.Carlos Ortiz
8.Tony Canzoneri
9.Bob Montgomery
10.Beau Jack
11.Lou Ambers
12.Freddie Welsh
13.Shane Mosley
14.Henry Armstrong
15.Esteban De Jesus
16.Ken Buchanan
17.Jack McAuliffe
18.Ismael Laguna
19.Ad Wolgast
20.Oscar De La Hoya

What do you guys make of this list?

What stands out for me is Lou Ambers is too low, Shane Mosley is too high (When the list was made he was at his peak which is probably why he was overrated here) and that as much as I love Pernell Whitaker I don't think he should be ranked above Joe Gans.

[Wild Blue Yonda]

It's not really a bad list --- with the huge exception of Mosley. No way, no how. Great fighter there, he was, but this is the most loaded division in history (IMO) & the man just didn't have the competition to justify that high a ranking, or anywhere near to it, looking again.

You could haggle all day about the top-10. It's a stacked weightclass for legends.

[IronDanHamza]

Carlos Ortiz is way way way too low.

Joe Brown above him? Abserd.

Ortiz is top 5 at the lowest, IMO.

[Welsh Jon]

Carlos Ortiz is way way way too low.

Joe Brown above him? Abserd.

Ortiz is top 5 at the lowest, IMO.

I agree Ortiz should be top 5. Who would you have drop out of the top 5 to replace him though?

I think I'd reluctantly say Pernell Whitaker.

[IronDanHamza]

I agree Ortiz should be top 5. Who would you have drop out of the top 5 to replace him though?

I think I'd reluctantly say Pernell Whitaker.

I have Ortiz at #4 on my list.

1. Duran
2. Leonard
3. Gans
4. Ortiz
5. Whitaker

[IronDanHamza]

Looking over the list again I notice that Freddie Welsh is missing from the Top 20.

Blasphemy.

Edit - Oops, there he is

Well, it doesn't include Barney Ross or Packey McFarland which is just as bad.

[Welsh Jon]

I think my top 5 would be:

1. Duran
2. Leonard
3. Gans
4. Ambers
5. Ortiz

[Pastrano]

Orzubek Nazarov, even if he didn't beat so many famous names, truly belongs on that list. The man simply destroyed the tough and skilled Joey Gamache in 2 rounds and beat Dingaan Thobela on his home turf twice! He also easily beat Leavander Johnson in 7 rounds. He had both great skill and awesome power.

And I'd rate Ortiz above both Williams and Brown.

[GJC]

People seem to be slowly overlooking Ike Williams, great fighter

[IronDanHamza]

People seem to be slowly overlooking Ike Williams, great fighter

If anything, I think he's being slightly overrated here.

By all means, Ike is an all time great, one hell of a fighter. And a Top 10 ATG LW, minimum.

But this list here has him at #5, I can't see that. Many people I respect also rank him as high as #4 and #5.

I can't see how he's higher than Carlos Ortiz, for example. I just can't see it. But that's just my personal view.