robinson in leonard's era & vice versa

[talip bin osman]

what if you drop ray robinson in ray leonard's era?

how would he fare with the likes of hagler, hearns, benitez & duran?

how would ray leonard on the other hand fare with lamotta, basilio, fulmer & gavilan?

who would have a tougher time?

[Sugarj]

For me they were near as dammit as good as each other, I'd just shade the edge to Robinson in overall ability. Robinson had the better record but I think Leonard had slightly the better contempories. They would have both faired well in each other's era and no doubt had the same problems with the same fighters!!!

Robinson would have had similar problems with Duran as with La Motta. I also think Hearn's reach would give him a tough fight, but no doubt Robinson too would have stopped him late. Benitez? A late rounds stoppage I think.

As for Hagler, we never saw him fight Leonard at his peak in 1984/85 but I'd favour Robinson to shade a close points victory here.

Basilio and Fulmer would give Leonard tough fights, but I'd have said Robinson fought these guys past his peak. A peak Leonard would do better in my opinion.

[1SILVA]

what if you drop ray robinson in ray leonard's era?

how would he fare with the likes of hagler, hearns, benitez & duran?

how would ray leonard on the other hand fare with lamotta, basilio, fulmer & gavilan?

who would have a tougher time?

Robinson was better than anyone in Leonard's era. That being said, I'd rank Leonard as the second greatest welter behind Robinson

[Obama]

Robinson was undefeated as a Welterweight against Angott, Armstrong, Zivic, and Gavilan. UNDEFEATED. And in no fight was he behind late and needed a KO to win. Leonard on the other hand was 1-1 against Duran at Welterweight, KOed Hearns late in a fight he was clearly about to lose, and decisively beat Benitez. Problem about Benitez is he wasn't better than any of the top guys Robinson beat at Welterweight. At Welterweight I'd also have to rate Gavilan over Duran, a man Robinson beat twice. So Leonard holds the single best Welterweight win in Hearns, but look how he accomplished it. He even made Hearns come into the fight underweight in order to get the paycheck he deserved. Then where was the rematch? 8 years later, 3 weight divisions later.

As for Middleweight accomplishments, Leonard "beat" a post prime Hagler, while Robinson beat prime versions of LaMotta (x5), Olson (x4), Fullmer, Turpin, and Basilio. Half those wins coming after he was past his prime. Who did a post prime Leonard beat besides a 38 year old Duran and Donny Lalonde who was fighting at a weight 7 lbs below what he should have just so Leonard could tie Tommy's division title record? When he stepped in the ring with a prime fighter (Terry Norris), he was given the business.

In short, Leonard couldn't hold a candle to what Robinson did. Comparing a post-prime Robinson to a prime Leonard would be more suitable.

[Sugarj]

Great last post, although the answer didn't really deal with the actual question of how each would have done in each other's era.

As for actual accomplishments Robinson had a far more decorated career, but would welter Robinson do any better than welter Leonard against Duran and Hearns? Honestly I think we'd see similar results. Surely Duran would give Robinson a really tough fight and I can see Hearns outjabbing Robinson early with that huge reach of his and lightning fast fists.

No Leonard couldn't 'hold a candle to what Robinson did', Leonard's post prime was very short lived, but this doesn't mean that at their respective welterweight peaks there wasn't two athletes of similar ability who would shine in each era.

[Obama]

Great last post, although the answer didn't really deal with the actual question of how each would have done in each other's era.

As for actual accomplishments Robinson had a far more decorated career, but would welter Robinson do any better than welter Leonard against Duran and Hearns? Honestly I think we'd see similar results. Surely Duran would give Robinson a really tough fight and I can see Hearns outjabbing Robinson early with that huge reach of his and lightning fast fists.

No Leonard couldn't 'hold a candle to what Robinson did', Leonard's post prime was very short lived, but this doesn't mean that at their respective welterweight peaks there wasn't two athletes of similar ability who would shine in each era.

Maybe my post wasn't direct enough, but I pretty much said Robinson overall fought better Welterweights, and he did it undefeated. HENCE, I see no reason why he wouldn't be able to go undefeated against Duran, Benitez, and Hearns, even if he fought all of them twice. Hearns was the best of the group but he was always known to gas, didn't know how to hold on, and even despite the fact that he was a KO artist SRR was not a guy he would likely KO.

As for beating a post-prime Hagler, I'm sure Ray could have done it too. Leonard wasn't all that impressive in the fight, a fight that he would have officially lost if it had gone 15 rounds instead of 12. Hagler always could be out boxed, even in his younger years. Robinson had all the tools to do it, and Robinson had the ability to not fade like Leonard did.

[Ascended]

Srr would never make it past amateur cause his skill level was a novice compared to the average 70s let alone 80s

[DooGee#33]

For me they were near as dammit as good as each other, I'd just shade the edge to Robinson in overall ability. Robinson had the better record but I think Leonard had slightly the better contempories. They would have both faired well in each other's era and no doubt had the same problems with the same fighters!!!

Robinson would have had similar problems with Duran as with La Motta. I also think Hearn's reach would give him a tough fight, but no doubt Robinson too would have stopped him late. Benitez? A late rounds stoppage I think.

As for Hagler, we never saw him fight Leonard at his peak in 1984/85 but I'd favour Robinson to shade a close points victory here.

Basilio and Fulmer would give Leonard tough fights, but I'd have said Robinson fought these guys past his peak. A peak Leonard would do better in my opinion.

Ray Leonard won some huge high profile fights against top notch champions. He didn't prove himself to the the extent Robinson had to. Different time different day.

Leonard was an outstanding talent. He could do everything I'm the ring at his peak. We don't know what would have happened next if he keep going. Leonard had control over the sport at that time.

Might seem like a subtle thing now but Leonard fought Roberto Duran the first time in his defacto or adopted hometown. Where he won the Gold Medal. That night Ray got his butt kicked decisively by Duran. He showed grit to survive the 15 rounds but the official score cards damn near stole the fight for him. A red flag for Hearns and Hagler.

Robinson was a trailblazer and pioneer in knowing his worth but he didn't have the kind of power Leonard had in th 80s. Point is this isn't apples to apples.

Sugar Ray fought LaMotta 5 times in a 3 or 4 year period. I don't think Ray Leonard would have fought Jake when he was still a Welterweight . If he did fight him and escape with a win that would have been the end of it.

Could Leonard beat Kid Gavilan twice in a short period? Or beat him period? A rising Geeoge Costner in 1945 is a dangerous fight for Leonard. Tommy Bell? Dangerous fight.

Leonard defeated Hearns in 1981 with a legendary display of heart, guts,.and.abitly. It was reminiscent of the Origiinal Sugar Ray. Then at his physical peak he was gone never to come close to that level again.

We really don't know how a rematch with Hearns at 154 would have resulted. I know Hearns deserved a rematch. He was determined to learn from his loss.

The fight with Hagler was setup. Not a fix. The boxers were both there to win but it smelled like fish. Ray boxed a smart, sneaky, dirty fight with a referee's that was most likely in the bag as well.

God Bless Marvin Hagler he should have punch Leonard back on the break, after the bell, held.him and hit him, Hagler could. have wound up a Bolo Punch and dropped it on Leonards.balls with Richard Steele right there.
All those tactics were blatant fouls. Marvin would have been DQ..Leonard didn't even lose a point fish? 118-110? Fish.

[DooGee#33]

Srr would never make it past amateur cause his skill level was a novice compared to the average 70s let alone 80s

You seem to have a bit of Nostalgia for the 1970s. Was that the period you first became a fan?

Just one note. Robinson fought all the way to 1965. In 1960 he dominated the Champion Gene Fullmer but got robbed. He was still a pretty decent fight in the mid 60s . What magically happened in 5 years that suddenly the GOAT is a novice?

[DooGee#33]

Robinson vs Hagler who was 12 title defenses into his reign. With the referee in rhe bag Sugar Ray probably wins by KO in the 1st round. Why wait for the judges?
1 Bolo punch to the jewels from Robinson and Hagler would have been rendered helpless. I'm surprised Leonard didn't nail Hagler when he was walking up the ring steps.