Evander Holyfield vs...

[Wild Blue Yonda]

How does a prime Holyfield (at Heavyweight), the one who out-gutted Dokes, blew out Douglas, & decisioned Foreman & Holmes fare against the two foremost HW figures of the 1920's --- Jack Dempsey (1921) & Gene Tunney (1926)? All these men were roughly the same size. Holyfield juiced his way past 200lbs, but really, there is very little actually separating them physically.

These are twelve-round fights, as Holyfield never fought at fifteen as a Heavy, & showed signs of fatigue at times even in 12-rounders.

I will try for a brief statistical breakdown in attributes, & who has the edge where...

Holyfield - Dempsey

Speed (Overall): Dempsey
Power: Dempsey
Offense (Overall): Dempsey
Defense (Overall): Dempsey
Versatility: Holyfield
Ring Generalship: Holyfield
Endurance: Dempsey
Heart: Even
Chin: Holyfield
Skin: Dempsey

Dempsey has the attribute advantages to back-up a Win claim (6-3-1), as I see it. However, like Marciano before him, Holyfield was a fighter who put together his many very good qualities (with few truly great ones) & combined them to make an outstanding fighter --- better than the sum of his parts, if you will. Several categories were close, too (Heart, Chin, & Defense all had me thinking hard).

Holyfield - Tunney

Speed (Overall): Tunney
Power: Holyfield
Offense (Overall): Holyfield
Defense (Overall): Tunney
Versatility: Holyfield
Ring Generalship: Tunney
Endurance: Tunney
Heart: Holyfield
Chin: Holyfield
Skin: Tunney

An even split (Just IMO, of course) of 5-5 in attributes. Again, some areas were very close (both had outstanding chins & heart, & Tunney was under-rated as a puncher, Holyfield, likewise as a speedster). It's difficult for me to see either man really hurting the other in this fight, it will be down to who wins ring generalship, IMO. Tunney was the better here, but Holyfield could always rise to an occasion if he felt the challenge.

Who do you pick?

[Wild Blue Yonda]

How does a prime Holyfield (at Heavyweight), the one who out-gutted Dokes, blew out Douglas, & decisioned Foreman & Holmes fare against the two foremost HW figures of the 1920's --- Jack Dempsey (1921) & Gene Tunney (1926)? All these men were roughly the same size. Holyfield juiced his way past 200lbs, but really, there is very little actually separating them physically.

These are twelve-round fights, as Holyfield never fought at fifteen as a Heavy, & showed signs of fatigue at times even in 12-rounders.

I will try for a brief statistical breakdown in attributes, & who has the edge where...

Holyfield - Dempsey

Speed (Overall): Dempsey
Power: Dempsey
Offense (Overall): Dempsey
Defense (Overall): Dempsey
Versatility: Holyfield
Ring Generalship: Holyfield
Endurance: Dempsey
Heart: Even
Chin: Holyfield
Skin: Dempsey

Dempsey has the attribute advantages to back-up a Win claim (6-3-1), as I see it. However, like Marciano before him, Holyfield was a fighter who put together his many very good qualities (with few truly great ones) & combined them to make an outstanding fighter --- better than the sum of his parts, if you will. Several categories were close, too (Heart, Chin, & Defense all had me thinking hard).

Holyfield - Tunney

Speed (Overall): Tunney
Power: Holyfield
Offense (Overall): Holyfield
Defense (Overall): Tunney
Versatility: Holyfield
Ring Generalship: Tunney
Endurance: Tunney
Heart: Holyfield
Chin: Holyfield
Skin: Tunney

An even split (Just IMO, of course) of 5-5 in attributes. Again, some areas were very close (both had outstanding chins & heart, & Tunney was under-rated as a puncher, Holyfield, likewise as a speedster). It's difficult for me to see either man really hurting the other in this fight, it will be down to who wins ring generalship, IMO. Tunney was the better here, but Holyfield could always rise to an occasion if he felt the challenge.

Who do you pick?

Damn. With apologies, I lost my bearings & hadn't realised I'd just switched a few minutes earlier from the Fantasy Fights section. Someone mind moving this?

[BigStereotype]

I've only seen bits and pieces of Tunney so I couldn't say, but Dempsey vs. Holyfield could be the greatest fight of all time. I think you give Dempsey too much credit saying he's equal to Holyfield in terms of heart, but he's pretty damn fierce. The two of them going toe-to-toe on the inside would be a sight to behold. Dempsey gets the better of it, though, with a savage knockout late. His power is too much for Holyfield to deal with.

[CarlosG815]

I've only seen bits and pieces of Tunney so I couldn't say, but Dempsey vs. Holyfield could be the greatest fight of all time. I think you give Dempsey too much credit saying he's equal to Holyfield in terms of heart, but he's pretty damn fierce. The two of them going toe-to-toe on the inside would be a sight to behold. Dempsey gets the better of it, though, with a savage knockout late. His power is too much for Holyfield to deal with.

Can you please tell me what you know of Dempsey to lead you to believe that he is giving him too much credit?

Dempsey would fight any man, anywhere, for even the smallest amounts of money. He would sleep on park benches in new cities where he was fighting, and ride underneath a train to get there. Can you please explain what makes you believe that any fighter in history had more heart and determination than Dempsey?

Evander did not suffer half the tribulations that Jack Dempsey did throughout his incredible career.

[BigStereotype]

Can you please tell me what you know of Dempsey to lead you to believe that he is giving him too much credit?

Dempsey would fight any man, anywhere, for even the smallest amounts of money. He would sleep on park benches in new cities where he was fighting, and ride underneath a train to get there. Can you please explain what makes you believe that any fighter in history had more heart and determination than Dempsey?

Evander did not suffer half the tribulations that Jack Dempsey did throughout his incredible career.

Maybe outside the ring, but I've never seen anybody inside the ring with more grit and determination. Dempsey was a warrior for sure, no slight on him. But Holyfield was beyond special with his heart.

[CarlosG815]

Maybe outside the ring, but I've never seen anybody inside the ring with more grit and determination. Dempsey was a warrior for sure, no slight on him. But Holyfield was beyond special with his heart.

Outside the ring? Dempsey would fight 15 rounds on an empty stomach after a long cold night on a park bench for $20. You are putting Evander on a pedestal because of a few fights where he went the distance and showed heart. Did he have more heart than Jack Dempsey? Not even close.

Personally I think Yonda was generous. I wouldn't give Versatility or Ring Generalship to Evander.

[BigStereotype]

Outside the ring? Dempsey would fight 15 rounds on an empty stomach after a long cold night on a park bench for $20. You are putting Evander on a pedestal because of a few fights where he went the distance and showed heart. Did he have more heart than Jack Dempsey? Not even close.

Personally I think Yonda was generous. I wouldn't give Versatility or Ring Generalship to Evander.

I'm putting the pugilist on a pedestal because of what I've personally observed. If Dempsey did those things, then that's impressive as a man. But inside the ring, just in a fight, I've never seen anybody with more desire to win than Holyfield.

[Joeyzagz]

Tunney/Holyfield.

..Tunney is Too smart, All the steroids in the world wont help Evander.

Holyfield Dempsey..

Holyfield wins this. He has the style to frustrate swarmers.

[CarlosG815]

I'm putting the pugilist on a pedestal because of what I've personally observed. If Dempsey did those things, then that's impressive as a man. But inside the ring, just in a fight, I've never seen anybody with more desire to win than Holyfield.

So you have seen Holyfield but admit to knowing nothing about Dempsey... So in not knowing much about Dempsey, why would you say somebody is giving him too much credit...? I had assumed you knew something I didn't, but as I thought, you are going by what you have seen of Holyfield, and not an ounce of knowledge on Jack Dempsey.

[BigStereotype]

So you have seen Holyfield but admit to knowing nothing about Dempsey... So in not knowing much about Dempsey, why would you say somebody is giving him too much credit...? I had assumed you knew something I didn't, but as I thought, you are going by what you have seen of Holyfield, and not an ounce of knowledge on Jack Dempsey.

Well I read the book he wrote and have watched every scrap of footage I could find...I just didn't really know if he had slept on park benches and whatnot.

And I'd like you to highlight exactly where I said I had not an ounce of knowledge on Dempsey.