I wanna learn japanese for third language

[THE NAMELESS]

Is there anyone else who is learning japanese or has tried to do???Tell me how diffecult it is.

[screwhead1]

i know...excuse me...i knew chinese...and they're a bit similar...but it all really depends on how your mind works...i had more trouble trying to learn spanish and italian and picked up chinese fairly easy because there is almost no similarities...it's like i was learning pictures when writing characters...but these days...my chinese is 不好！

either way...rosetta stone that **** and stay with it...

[Drunken Cat]

I've been studying Japanese for some time and am now attending grad school in Tokyo.

I can post some comments later, although I don't have time right now.

Any specific questions? And do you have any foundational knowledge to this point?

[THE NAMELESS]

I've been studying Japanese for some time and am now attending grad school in Tokyo.

I can post some comments later, although I don't have time right now.

Any specific questions? And do you have any foundational knowledge to this point?

I can read Hirakana and katakana.

and some 漢字..very poor though LOL

[aristotlemoses]

I got Rosetta Stone Italian and Spanish. Once my work slows down and I get **** in order I'm gunna try and learn both. One at a time obviously.

[Drunken Cat]

I can read Hirakana and katakana.

and some 漢字..very poor though LOL

You say Japanese as a third language. So then English is your second language then? Or something else?

In any case, I probably don't have to tell you this but this should give you a significant leg up over someone starting from scratch having never studied a foreign language.

Japanese is in many respects not extremely difficult (although the writing system, especially kanji, most certainly is). The main challenge for me initially was assimilating the grammar structure, after which I found my progress was quite rapid.

As you likely already know, Japanese is Subject-Object-Verb (SOV), as opposed to English which is Subject-Verb-Object (SVO). Additionally, Japanese grammar relies heavily on "particles" (i.e. word markers), which can take a considerable amount of getting use to, given the intricacies. Most importantly are topic particle は,　subject particle が,　object particle を, and additionally somewhat more complicated particles　に　で　と. と isn't bad actually, it mostly is equivalent to "and" (私と彼女：I and she; 肉と魚：Meat and fish).

に is most commonly used for,
1. To mark the location to which one travels （私は）学校に行きます。：I go to school.
(note that the (topic) "I" in this case would generally be implied rather then stated).
２．To mark the location at which something/someone is.　東京は日本にあります。：　Tokyo is in Japan.

The most common uses of で is as,
1. The location of an action (私は）図書館で日本語を勉強しました。：（I） studied Japanese at the library
2. To identify a means/tool/vehicle by which an action is completed:
（私は）車で学校に来ます。：I come to school by car
(私は）箸で昼ご飯を食べました。： I ate lunch with chopsticks.

Another important particle is の which is principally used to
1. Imply a possessive relationship: 私の犬：　My dog.
２．To connect two nouns:　夏の日：　A summer day.


I wouldn't expect you to actually assimilate all of this information, but I hope it provides a snapshot of how Japanese grammar operates. Please note also that Japanese is my second language, and I am still learning myself.

A useful site for translating words (including converting kanji to kana) is:
http://www.aa.tufs.ac.jp/~jwb/cgi-bin/wwwjdic.cgi?9T
(I recommend you click word search/home in the top left and select a mirror close to your location).

Another site that I have found to be relatively effective for language study is www.livemocha.com (it includes lessons and is interactive. You can also find language partners for type or voice chat).

When I first began college Japanese, I completed the initial pimsleur program (not the complete program, which is pricey.. but then, I also didn't know about torrents back then either). It was a good starting point, and I completed it in my car for the most part.

[THE NAMELESS]

You say Japanese as a third language. So then English is your second language then? Or something else?

In any case, I probably don't have to tell you this but this should give you a significant leg up over someone starting from scratch having never studied a foreign language.

Japanese is in many respects not extremely difficult (although the writing system, especially kanji, most certainly is). The main challenge for me initially was assimilating the grammar structure, after which I found my progress was quite rapid.

As you likely already know, Japanese is Subject-Object-Verb (SOV), as opposed to English which is Subject-Verb-Object (SVO). Additionally, Japanese grammar relies heavily on "particles" (i.e. word markers), which can take a considerable amount of getting use to, given the intricacies. Most importantly are topic particle は,　subject particle が,　object particle を, and additionally somewhat more complicated particles　に　で　と. と isn't bad actually, it mostly is equivalent to "and" (私と彼女：I and she; 肉と魚：Meat and fish).

に is most commonly used for,
1. To mark the location to which one travels （私は）学校に行きます。：I go to school.
(note that the (topic) "I" in this case would generally be implied rather then stated).
２．To mark the location at which something/someone is.　東京は日本にあります。：　Tokyo is in Japan.

The most common uses of で is as,
1. The location of an action (私は）図書館で日本語を勉強しました。：（I） studied Japanese at the library
2. To identify a means/tool/vehicle by which an action is completed:
（私は）車で学校に来ます。：I come to school by car
(私は）箸で昼ご飯を食べました。： I ate lunch with chopsticks.

Another important particle is の which is principally used to
1. Imply a possessive relationship: 私の犬：　My dog.
２．To connect two nouns:　夏の日：　A summer day.


I wouldn't expect you to actually assimilate all of this information, but I hope it provides a snapshot of how Japanese grammar operates. Please note also that Japanese is my second language, and I am still learning myself.

A useful site for translating words (including converting kanji to kana) is:
http://www.aa.tufs.ac.jp/~jwb/cgi-bin/wwwjdic.cgi?9T
(I recommend you click word search/home in the top right and select a mirror close to your location).

Another site that I have found to be relatively effective for language study is www.livemocha.com (it includes lessons and is interactive. You can also find language partners for type or voice chat).

When I first began college Japanese, I completed the initial pimsleur program (not the complete program, which is pricey.. but then, I also didn't know about torrents back then either). It was a good starting point, and I completed it in my car for the most part.

thx bro..Anyway the grammar structure wouldn't bother me. My mother tongue is korean, which has exacly same structure as japanese.My biggest challenge will be kanji..even though We also use 漢字, there is way different bettewn korean 漢字 and japanese 漢字

[Drunken Cat]

I thought I'd pinch it off with the previous post, but generally speaking:

As I said, grammar is initially challenging but once you get a handle on it it begins to make terrific sense and you can basically conjecturalize a lot of things once you get the hang of it.

Vocabulary is not extremely challenging, if you discount kanji.

Pronunciation is not a big problem, which is one advantage of Japanese. The range of sounds is minimal, most of the sounds are not that difficult to pronounce, and the language is rather monotonous (despite the popular misconception that Japanese is a tonal language like Chinese. It's not. Although there are some examples of words ****nyms with distinct meanings depending on intonation, these are relatively uncommon and are a topic of considerably advanced study.)

Also, while I haven't used it personally, it seems I've heard good things about "Japanese for Busy People." I personally studied from "Genki" vols. 1 and 2, and I found it quite effective, however it seems that it would be particularly cumbersome, and the explanations incomplete, for the purpose of self-study.

As for kanji, not much to say but that it is certainly a hefty challenge. If you are dedicated, it can be learned but it is important to have a good system for studying. I've used a number of systems with limited success, however there are a number of resources out there so I wish you luck finding something which works for you.

Lately, I have been using a Japanese elementary school kanji textbook, which is probably the best source I've come across. I'll try to post a link to an amazon page or something in a bit (likely Japanese Amazon).

I've also used "Basic Kanji Book" vols. 1 and 2
(vol. 1):
http://www.amazon.com/Basic-Kanji-Bo.../dp/4893580914
with some amount of success, but again somewhat limited success at that (again, it depends on your dedication level, however).

Also, a kanji reference book which I swear by, and which has considerably assisted in my understand of kanji is Jack Halpern's (ed.) "New Japanese-English Character Dictionary"

I personally possess this edition:
http://www.amazon.com/New-Japanese-E...5116575&sr=1-3

A seemingly newer (and cheaper) edition is this:

http://www.amazon.com/NTCs-New-Japan.../dp/0844284343

Finally, a book by the same editor which I know nothing about, but which looks like a may be worth a look is this:

http://www.amazon.com/Kodansha-Kanji...ref=pd_sim_b_1

[Drunken Cat]

thx bro..Anyway the grammar structure wouldn't bother me. My mother tongue is korean, which has exacly same structure as japanese.My biggest challenge will be kanji..even though We also use 漢字, there is way different bettewn korean 漢字 and japanese 漢字

In that case, you have a huge advantage. I have also studied Korean (mostly from friends and by myself, and I also spent 2 months in Seoul back in '07). In my case, Japanese was a significant aide.

I was suspecting that I had posted too much on kanji, but perhaps my prior post was relatively on base.

I tend to jump around a bit as my mind moves more rapidly than I can type, although I hope there was some value to what I've posted.

It seems that being able to utilize texts written in Korean should be a significant advantage over relying on English texts.

It seems that in your case you should be able to find great success learning Japanese. As for the elementary kanji book, I've been using this one:

"早わかり字典"


http://www.amazon.co.jp/%E5%B0%8F%E5.../dp/4424293017
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&s...N&tab=iw&tbo=0

It is pretty well written and I'd definitely recommend it if you would like to utilize a basic Japanese textbook on kanji. I compared several at the bookstore, and this one seemed like the best one of those I reviewed.

Goodluck, and I don't believe you'll face nearly the sort of uphill climb as what I experienced.

Feel free to post any questions, and I'll try to answer to the best of my ability.

Oh yeah, a nice site on language learning which I use to visit quite often:

www.how-to-learn-any-language.com. It has a very active forum and some very knowledgeable members.

Again, best of luck. And do keep us up to date if you are so inclined.

[THE NAMELESS]

In that case, you have a huge advantage. I have also studied Korean (mostly from friends and by myself, and I also spent 2 months in Seoul back in '07). In my case, Japanese was a significant aide.

I was suspecting that I had posted too much on kanji, but perhaps my prior post was relatively on base.

I tend to jump around a bit as my mind moves more rapidly than I can type, although I hope there was some value to what I've posted.

It seems that being able to utilize texts written in Korean should be a significant advantage over relying on English texts.

It seems that in your case you should be able to find great success learning Japanese. As for the elementary kanji book, I've been using this one:

"早わかり字典"


http://www.amazon.co.jp/%E5%B0%8F%E5.../dp/4424293017
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&s...N&tab=iw&tbo=0

It is pretty well written and I'd definitely recommend it if you would like to utilize a basic Japanese textbook on kanji. I compared several at the bookstore, and this one seemed like the best one of those I reviewed.

Goodluck, and I don't believe you'll face nearly the sort of uphill climb as what I experienced.

Feel free to post any questions, and I'll try to answer to the best of my ability.

Oh yeah, a nice site on language learning which I use to visit quite often:

www.how-to-learn-any-language.com. It has a very active forum and some very knowledgeable members.

Again, best of luck. And do keep us up to date if you are so inclined.

thx you bro. i'm so impressed.
as you said, I'll buy what you recommanded and study. again, thanks for this advise.