This one has perplexed me for years, I even asked Holyfield himself and he didn't really know! Evander says he could outbox Marciano, but then again Marciano could knock out a mule, so you have to give him his due as well. I see this as being an all time great classic, one that people would talk about for decades upon decades.

So who wins it? Keep in mind it's a CruiserWeighted Evander, which is about the same weight as Marciano fought at, now let's hear it!

Holyfield's Iron Chin would give him a close UD...

I'd say the real deal lays down some good boxing and gives Marciano a good fight...I mean you saw Evander could take a punch when he fought Foreman...However I'd say Marciano's defense is superior to Foreman's, Foreman's defense consisting of a great offense and hs arms across face block..and Marciano having his crouch and weaving....

I'd say Marciano KO's Evander in about 12 to 13....

Then again I could see Evander getting a MD or UD...

Holyfield was better as a cruiserweight than a heavyweight but I don't see him beating Marciano. Marciano would be all over him from the get go, throwing bombs, and he would not get tired unlike the opponents of Holyfields.
Evander would outbox him for a few rounds perhaps, but I don't see it lasting. It would be a good fight though.

the Real Deal wins this one. like it or not Evander is one of the best fighters ever

Marciano wins by a late round KO. Evander would end up going to war with him after getting hit hard, he would not box him all night. Bert Cooper hurt Holyfield so while he had a good chin he was not impervious to big punchers. I don't think many heavyweights would come out on top with Marciano in a straight up punchfest and Holyfield is not one of them. Not a very vicious puncher Holyfield. Solid power, good speed. I also think his stamina is overrated, he was always comfortable fighting in spurts. I don't think he could match Marciano's pace and would eventually wear down and get knocked out.

I go back and forth with this fight, a strong arguement could be made for both fighters, I do agree with Evander that he could outbox Marciano, thus giving himself a chance at a Decision win. Evander has a pretty good defense himself, and God knows he has a beard, can Rocky actualy land the bomb that takes Evander out?

Marciano, with his crouching and weaving could - in my mind - make it hard for the more skilled Holyfield to land good scoring shots. And, Marciano could really put on the pressure, for the ENTIRE 15 Rounds, so maybe even "The Real Deal Holyfield", as hard as it is to imagine given his conditioning, actualy runs out of gas. If Evander tires does he get caught? Does Evanders' skill as a boxer give him the edge?

Would I pay thousands to watch it? DEFINATELY!

Marciano wins by a late round KO. Evander would end up going to war with him after getting hit hard, he would not box him all night. Bert Cooper hurt Holyfield so while he had a good chin he was not impervious to big punchers. I don't think many heavyweights would come out on top with Marciano in a straight up punchfest and Holyfield is not one of them. Not a very vicious puncher Holyfield. Solid power, good speed. I also think his stamina is overrated, he was always comfortable fighting in spurts. I don't think he could match Marciano's pace and would eventually wear down and get knocked out.

thats what I'm saying...I completely agree...

Holyfield UD, Marciano lacks the power to KO Holyfield.

Holyfield UD, Marciano lacks the power to KO Holyfield.

Your kidding me right?

Holy by shutout UD or TKO from cuts

Your kidding me right?

Nope, but I don't really know how many people he fought that punched harder than Marciano.

Nope, but I don't really know how many people he fought that punched harder than Marciano.

I'd say the only ones would be Mike Tyson (maybe) and George Foreman....both were well out of their primes when they fought Evander, both would pummel Evander in there primes... I'd say Marciano gets this one by Late KO...there is a possibility Evander could get an MD/UD..

They(The Military) measured Marciano's PSI before, I think it was pretty good... He got 1,000 PSI, or a little above (Joe Louis also took the PSI test, and got 1,100). Rahman probably punches harder than Marciano and Louis, (Keep in mind, these are their hardest punches they can throw, you can hit hard but it doesn't mean shit if you can't hit them)


Check out Fight Science, the boxer gets 993 which is pretty good, the other fighting styles are alright.
(These PSI things cost hundreds of thousands of dollars)
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They(The Military) measured Marciano's PSI before, I think it was pretty good... He got 1,000 PSI, or a little above (Joe Louis also took the PSI test, and got 1,100). Rahman probably punches harder than Marciano and Louis, (Keep in mind, these are their hardest punches they can throw, you can hit hard but it doesn't mean shit if you can't hit them)


Check out Fight Science, the boxer gets 993 which is pretty good, the other fighting styles are alright.
(These PSI things cost hundreds of thousands of dollars)
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PSI technology wasn't refined enough in Marciano's time to accurately capture his PSI...the 1100 PSI rating given to Marciano is referred to more as an educated guess....am I inplying Marciano had an 8000 PSI, certainly not....
Am I implying Marciano's the hardest hitter no...what I am implying is you can't rely on the 1100 PSI rating....I'd say there are people who hit harder then Marciano...Foreman, Shavers, probably Tyson, and I believe Lyle....however the only people Holyfield fought off this list are Foreman and Tyson..who as I stated were both past their prime...I will say something in your defense though, Punching Power is the last thing a fighter loses, so Tyson (who was out of his skill prime but no where near out of his punching capabilities) and Foreman (who I believe did lose alot of his punching power, but still packed the one of the hardest punches in HW history), however even though both still had there punch, neither I'd say had as good a defense at this point in their career as Marciano did.

I don't believe Rahman had as hard a hit...Something I can say in my defense is if you look at his resume no Iron chin names stick out...Marciano did fight some guys who had good chins....

Now this may be a fight similar to Marciano v Walcott I...Walcott boxing Marciano, giving him a good fight and really winning on pts, but Marciano delivering punishment round after round and finally throwing a punch in late rounds and knocking him flat out....

Walcott I KO
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c49/IrishInsomniac00/Rocky%20Marciano/ascan29.jpg



http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Arena/1047//Rock3.html
site on Marciano...Direct Link to punching power
(site sometimes goes down if it exceeds bandwidth for the day, just try back another time)



anyway Great video...and here's mine of Rocky KO'ing Walcott....Walcott cocks his right hook but it never gets delivered as Marciano's right hook KO's him first...

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I'm gunna look for the punch at regular speed because it looks vicious, sort of like the Foreman KO punch against Moorer looks pathetic in slow motion, but at actual speed it looks more like it hurts...

FOUND IT


"And Rocky Marciano is the Heavyweight Champion of the world. Rock-y Mar-ci-ano

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Bert Sugar (among others) referred to this as one of the best punches ever thrown

This fight is a two way split. Holyfield was even more impressive as a prime cruiser than he was a heavy. Likely a UD for the real deal but a late Marciano stoppage win is not out of the question.

holyfield has a great chin but marciano has aheavy punch if holyfield got in close and slugged it out with marciano (which holyfield tends to do) he would get KOed eventually it was never hard to hit holyfield so IMO any hard hitter with a decent chin and heart should be able to knock him out. marciano had all those qualities

Marciano wins by a late round KO. Evander would end up going to war with him after getting hit hard, he would not box him all night. Bert Cooper hurt Holyfield so while he had a good chin he was not impervious to big punchers. I don't think many heavyweights would come out on top with Marciano in a straight up punchfest and Holyfield is not one of them. Not a very vicious puncher Holyfield. Solid power, good speed. I also think his stamina is overrated, he was always comfortable fighting in spurts. I don't think he could match Marciano's pace and would eventually wear down and get knocked out.

I totally agree with this the kid on this one. Although Evander Holyfield would present one helluva challenge for Marciano, his heart would sooner or later definitely have him placed in a slugfest. And there is no way Holyfield would survive Marcianos bombs. A tired and battered Holyfield goes down for keeps in the later rounds.

Rocky Marciano by ko11.

Cruiser holyfield was too small, so Marciano ko's him late.

Cruiser holyfield was too small, so Marciano ko's him late.

Theres more to it than size butterfly, cruiser holfield was still bigger than Marciano frame wise and even in weight. He also showed that he could move up to heavy and take a lot of hard shots. It's a bout decided on skills and styles, not sizes.

holyfield wins a wide ud in my eyes

Theres more to it than size butterfly, cruiser holfield was still bigger than Marciano frame wise and even in weight. He also showed that he could move up to heavy and take a lot of hard shots. It's a bout decided on skills and styles, not sizes.

Marciano's build was almost just as big as holyfield. Remember, he starved himself down to 185. Holy needs the extra weight for physical strength, and power, to be able to stop marciano.

Marciano's build was almost just as big as holyfield. Remember, he starved himself down to 185. Holy needs the extra weight for physical strength, and power, to be able to stop marciano.


Never said he'd stop Marciano. I said how great Holy was as a natural cruiser and how he could use his speed and skills to win on points.

Never said he'd stop Marciano. I said how great Holy was as a natural cruiser and how he could use his speed and skills to win on points.

When I said stop I didn't mean tko, I meant keep marciano away from him.

When I said stop I didn't mean tko, I meant keep marciano away from him.

ok, but don't forget Evander was able to push the huge Lennox Lewis around during their bouts. Evander was small but he was very strong.

ok, but don't forget Evander was able to push the huge Lennox Lewis around during their bouts. Evander was small but he was very strong.

thats was a heavyweight holyfield after alot of weightlifting the cruiser holyfield was strong but so was marciano

holyfields biggest flaw is his heart; too much of it he would stand towe to toe with maricnao and slug and would llikely get knocked silly

thats was a heavyweight holyfield after alot of weightlifting the cruiser holyfield was strong but so was marciano

holyfields biggest flaw is his heart; too much of it he would stand towe to toe with maricnao and slug and would llikely get knocked silly

but it would be a splendidly good fight!

Several good posts, especially from Kid Acilles, nice job. The evidence clips were very cool too, and the point made that Evanders' heart would make him go to war is brilliant, great job guys!

I think it would be simply one of the greatest wars ever!

ok, but don't forget Evander was able to push the huge Lennox Lewis around during their bouts. Evander was small but he was very strong.

But he wasn't 190.

But he wasn't 190.

It's still strength. Few guys can change weight division without losing a lot of natural physical gifts. Holy was naturaly a strong guy.

Don't get my wrong there's always the possiblility of Holy picking up a decision but I see Marciano getting the KO....

Like I said before I see this fight close to Walcott v Marciano I....

Don't get my wrong there's always the possiblility of Holy picking up a decision but I see Marciano getting the KO....

Like I said before I see this fight close to Walcott v Marciano I....

Thats exactly how I see it going. The majority of the fight will be evenly fought with Holyfield a bit ahead on the cards. Holfields heart would make him exchange with Marciano through the fight and in the end Evander would be worn down by the rocks punchers.

Like I said before I see this fight close to Walcott v Marciano I....


I don't think it would be that close. Walcott was a great defensive and intelligent boxer and that was a great performance by him as well.

I don't think it would be that close. Walcott was a great defensive and intelligent boxer and that was a great performance by him as well.

I'm thinking more to the extent that Holyfield would try and box Marciano and would be leading on points...also that this fight would probably end with a Marciano bomb.....

A distinct difference would be that Holy would probably come in and slug with Marciano while Walcott really didn't...

Marciano has the abilitys of a Heavyweight, despite his smaller frame.

I'm thinking more to the extent that Holyfield would try and box Marciano and would be leading on points...also that this fight would probably end with a Marciano bomb.....

A distinct difference would be that Holy would probably come in and slug with Marciano while Walcott really didn't...

Marciano's not gonna end it with a bomb, holyfield's chin is too granite, way better than Walcott's.

Interesting match up!

Hard call though, Im thinking Holyfield by stoppage by cuts or Marciano KOs him in 10-15 round

Holyfield wins this, he just too much for Rocky.

You know, I didn't think about Marciano being prone to cuts, and GOD knows Evander does use his head as a weapon at times, Marciano may indeed get cut to shreds by the head butts. It is entirely possible this fight gets stopped for cuts, in that case I would have to go with Holyfield to win since I believe he would be winning on points due to his boxing ability vs the more "brawler" style of Marciano. Hell, I have no idea on this one it seems!

You know, I didn't think about Marciano being prone to cuts, and GOD knows Evander does use his head as a weapon at times, Marciano may indeed get cut to shreds by the head butts. It is entirely possible this fight gets stopped for cuts, in that case I would have to go with Holyfield to win since I believe he would be winning on points due to his boxing ability vs the more "brawler" style of Marciano. Hell, I have no idea on this one it seems!


it's a very good match up with a number of outcomes.

You know, I didn't think about Marciano being prone to cuts, and GOD knows Evander does use his head as a weapon at times, Marciano may indeed get cut to shreds by the head butts. It is entirely possible this fight gets stopped for cuts, in that case I would have to go with Holyfield to win since I believe he would be winning on points due to his boxing ability vs the more "brawler" style of Marciano. Hell, I have no idea on this one it seems!


he i didn't even think about that ho0lyfield was a master of subtley using his head

Your kidding me right?

6 fighters did go the distance with Marciano, am I correct?

And I don't remember to much holding of Marciano to prevent him from punching.


If LaStarza and Charles can go the distance, which they both did in their first fight with Rocky, I don't see why not Evander. Lets also remember, Charles, Walcott, and Moore, had many fights prior, many losses, and had been knocked out before, so it wasn't anything new.

Evander lost to Bowe, but in the first fight Bowe was in great shape, had heigh, reach, size, and power. He was throwing everything at Holyfield, and despite Evander being hurt, he was able to prevent a knockout loss.
The time he was knocked out from Bowe, who remember was a powerful puncher, Evander wasn't looking the same, which I am not sure was due to his heart condition or just fatigue from to many battles.

Evander took some shots from the biggest punchers of his time, and there were many flush shots.

I would say Lewis hits harder than Rocky, and Lewis wasn't able to knock him out.

Evander would also be young, unlike Walcott (who he struggled with in their first fight), Moore (who knocked him down), and Charles (who lasted the full fight in their first fight).


I've always wondered about Marciano's power: he seems to hit very hard, but I have also watched the Walcott fight many times and noticed that Joe was taking some flush shots from Marciano throughout the fight. Now they did seem to stun Joe on occasion, but it wasn't until the 13th, where Walcott was winding up with his punch and starting to throw it, leaving his chin exposed, and his body weight starting to go forward into Marciano's punch, which was on its way and coming with everything. I saw the first fight with Charles, where Ezzard was able to take some nice shots as well. LaStarza, the same. I even saw LaStarza back up the Rock in their first fight, even tying him up.


The one thing I have always wondered, and I would have to go rewatch some older footage of Holyfield, was how well Evander could take a body punch. Tyson hurt him to the body badly, but didn't continue to attack the body after he hurt him, he went back to the head. If that was a young Tyson, he would of continued the attack. Toney also hurt Evander to the body, and continued the attack, wearing out Holyfield.

Now, the Toney fight is really unfair, and the Tyson fight is unfair as well, since Holy wasn't in his "prime", but Holy wasn't completely shot against Tyson, and Heavyweights don't usual attack to the body like Tyson used to do (nor do most have his power), but I still wonder. Wear and Tear might be the reason, but not sure yet.

Like I said, I would have to go back and check his prior fights and I could be off base. He did take punishment to the body as a Cruiserweight, but not so sure against the big boys at Heavyweight.

I've always thought that there was something with the natural size of your waist, that helps determine, if you are in great shape, how well you can take a punch to the body. Holyfield had a 32 inch waist, most heavyweights I think are around 34+

he i didn't even think about that ho0lyfield was a master of subtley using his head

LOL, yeah, many have complained, even Lewis who is 6'5

LOL, yeah, many have complained, even Lewis who is 6'5

bweing taller is far worse when you go head to head

bweing taller is far worse when you go head to head


indeed. they say you should never headbutt a guy shorter than you.

ah, because the top part of the head is harder so when you headbutt a shorter guy, you are more likely to hit him on the top part of the head (where you headbutt a soccer ball) and head-butting a a taller guy you can hit him in the lower half, especially the chin

I correct my previous post

The top part of the head is actually relatively soft. You want to hit with your upper forehead ideally, as that is the strongest bone in your body.

It could go either way, but it's more likely Holyfield wins by a close UD.

The top part of the head is actually relatively soft. You want to hit with your upper forehead ideally, as that is the strongest bone in your body.

Much MUCH harder than your jaw cheeks and nose though

The top part of the head is actually relatively soft. You want to hit with your upper forehead ideally, as that is the strongest bone in your body.

That's what I meant, where you hit a soccer ball with.

But we are also talking about Evander's head; I am not sure there is any part of his skull that is soft.

Holyfield would TKO Rocky. He was unstoppable at cruiser. The combinations he put together would overwhelm Marciano, and I dont think anybody could knock him out in his prime. Qawi hit Holyfield with some monster shots and he didnt budge.

Qawi could hit but he was no Marciano. I would say Bert Cooper would be a more apropriate comparison on the basis of power and he definitely hurt Holyfield in their fight.

Crackin fight! im gonna go wit Evander

And yes, I really did ask Evander about this fantasy fight by the way, here is a pic from the night - I know there a lot of non believers out there, but if I say I asked a fighter about something you can take it to the bank. lol

JD

http://img424.imageshack.us/img424/2264/jdevandergg3.jpg