View Full Version : Free Will


Ta Khent
11-10-2006, 10:00 PM
According to religion, God gave us free will. Yet, we must give our will to God or face eternal damnation. If we do, is it really free? That's like giving someone a million dollars with restrictions on its use. Discuss.

The Noose
11-11-2006, 05:12 AM
Is that true of every religion?
Does every religion have a God?

To me it seems most people religous or otherwise, do wat they want. Some just ask for forgiveness afterwards.
Every Sunday Catholics go to church and pray for forgiveness, then spend the whole week commiting the same sins again.

platinummatt!
11-11-2006, 07:50 AM
Yes it is free will. You live in America right? You have freedom right? If you kill someone you will be put it jail.

K-DOGG
11-11-2006, 08:55 AM
According to religion, God gave us free will. Yet, we must give our will to God or face eternal damnation. If we do, is it really free? That's like giving someone a million dollars with restrictions on its use. Discuss.

LOL!!!! You know, I've considered this very question many times and finally came to the conclusion that the "free will" thing basically boiled down to him giving us a choice to love him/her of our own free will or not....like a parent telling you that you have a choice to do this or not; but there will be consequences if you do not.

So, it's a choice with consequences for choosing poorly, such as other choices in life.

A weird example: If you are young (don't have to be, just for sake of argument becaue young people haven't learned many things the "hard way" yet) and meet this person of the opposite sex who you are immediately smitten with and want to spend all of your time with this person; and after falling deeper "in love" you find out this person has some issues. Let's say this person is very exciting and has much charisma and sex appeal, more than you've ever seen before in a person of the opposite sex and he/she just exudes this magnitism that you don't feel you could or want to resist. He/She's the one.

Then, you find out about the crack-habbit, or that she's doing tricks on the side for extra money, or for coke, or he has syphillis....whatever.

Okay, at this point, you haven't contracted the disease she/he carries, you haven't partaken of the crack or herroine or crank, etc.; but you feel you are deeply in love with this person. What do you do? You have a choice.

You either pick up your broken heart and leave for greener, cleaner, less troubled pastures, or you try to "save them" from themselves, or you join them and suffer whatever fate awaits you.


What do yo do? Choices and consequences.....as "merovingian" in the "The Matrix" pointed out, "cause and effect". This is the nature of life and the after-life as well.

platinummatt!
11-11-2006, 08:59 AM
youre comparing god to a crack addict?! joke.

Yeh this is right, god gives you the choiec, but there a are consequences

K-DOGG
11-11-2006, 09:09 AM
Is that true of every religion?
Does every religion have a God?

To me it seems most people religous or otherwise, do wat they want. Some just ask for forgiveness afterwards.
Every Sunday Catholics go to church and pray for forgiveness, then spend the whole week commiting the same sins again.

Ahh, and my friend, that is why most people who despise religions do....the hypocricy of some of it's practioners.

LoftyDog
11-12-2006, 02:34 AM
My view, as a Christian, is that we have free will, but shouldn't do things because they are wrong. I shouldn't get drunk because the bible says I shouldn't let things take control over me, because it usually leads to other sins, and I don't need alcohol to have fun. There is a reason I should not do things, they are not random restrictions. In the end it is my choice to do them or not to. If I mess up, thats fine too. Because all I need to do is ask for forgiveness, but that is not a justification to do them, especilly all the time. Nobody is perfect, but a Christian is supposed to try and do the right thing, but it is their choice to do what they do.

The Noose
11-12-2006, 04:01 AM
My view, as a Christian, is that we have free will, but shouldn't do things because they are wrong. I shouldn't get drunk because the bible says I shouldn't let things take control over me, because it usually leads to other sins, and I don't need alcohol to have fun. There is a reason I should not do things, they are not random restrictions. In the end it is my choice to do them or not to. If I mess up, thats fine too. Because all I need to do is ask for forgiveness, but that is not a justification to do them, especilly all the time. Nobody is perfect, but a Christian is supposed to try and do the right thing, but it is their choice to do what they do.

Doesnt that apply to everyone?
We all try and do the right thing, but choose wat we do.

I dont see much, if any difference between christians and other people in the way we conduct ourselves in general.
Does the bible give clear outlines on wat is right and wrong? It seems nearly all of the bible can be interpreted in different ways.

Thou shall not kill....but wen it comes down to it, we would if we had to. Self defence or otherwise. We kill animals all the time. We go to war to serve the greater good. How can a christian justify this?

(am i going way off track?)

platinummatt!
11-12-2006, 07:25 AM
Soem christians wouldnt kill in self defense.
We dont all try to do the right thing?

Ta Khent
11-12-2006, 02:25 PM
LOL!!!! You know, I've considered this very question many times and finally came to the conclusion that the "free will" thing basically boiled down to him giving us a choice to love him/her of our own free will or not....like a parent telling you that you have a choice to do this or not; but there will be consequences if you do not.

So, it's a choice with consequences for choosing poorly, such as other choices in life.

A weird example: If you are young (don't have to be, just for sake of argument becaue young people haven't learned many things the "hard way" yet) and meet this person of the opposite sex who you are immediately smitten with and want to spend all of your time with this person; and after falling deeper "in love" you find out this person has some issues. Let's say this person is very exciting and has much charisma and sex appeal, more than you've ever seen before in a person of the opposite sex and he/she just exudes this magnitism that you don't feel you could or want to resist. He/She's the one.

Then, you find out about the crack-habbit, or that she's doing tricks on the side for extra money, or for coke, or he has syphillis....whatever.

Okay, at this point, you haven't contracted the disease she/he carries, you haven't partaken of the crack or herroine or crank, etc.; but you feel you are deeply in love with this person. What do you do? You have a choice.

You either pick up your broken heart and leave for greener, cleaner, less troubled pastures, or you try to "save them" from themselves, or you join them and suffer whatever fate awaits you.


What do yo do? Choices and consequences.....as "merovingian" in the "The Matrix" pointed out, "cause and effect". This is the nature of life and the after-life as well.


Yes, I understand that however, we are given the right to choose, but essentially told what choices to make or suffer. Most don't want to suffer so they choose what is required of them. If we truly have free will, then we should be free not to believe without risking eternal damnation. (Keep in mind, this from a religious standpoint, not societal)

platinummatt!
11-12-2006, 03:36 PM
Whats your name?

Verstyle
11-12-2006, 03:38 PM
here we go again

platinummatt!
11-12-2006, 03:43 PM
If you commit a crime you get put in jail dont you?

Oasis_Lad
11-12-2006, 03:58 PM
Yes, I understand that however, we are given the right to choose, but essentially told what choices to make or suffer. Most don't want to suffer so they choose what is required of them. If we truly have free will, then we should be free not to believe without risking eternal damnation. (Keep in mind, this from a religious standpoint, not societal)

agreed , how can it be free will when they are basically telling you what is wrong and right

platinummatt!
11-12-2006, 04:20 PM
So who else is it left to decide whats wrong or right? Wouldnt it be best that god, the creator and only perfect being do it?

Oasis_Lad
11-12-2006, 04:22 PM
So who else is it left to decide whats wrong or right? Wouldnt it be best that god, the creator and only perfect being do it?

if suxch an entity exists

i think it's best left to our own feelings of what is wrong and right

platinummatt!
11-12-2006, 04:29 PM
But that would allow drug dealers etc to do that also

The Noose
11-12-2006, 05:04 PM
But that would allow drug dealers etc to do that also

Alcohol is a drug.
Didnt Jesus turn water into wine?

:beerchug:

"YOU ARE FREE....TO DO WHAT WE TELL YOU"
"YOU ARE FREE....TO DO WHAT WE TELL YOU"
"YOU ARE FREE....TO DO WHAT WE TELL YOU" - Bill Hicks.

To me it doesnt really make sense. BUT....
God says to us "Ok, so i love u little monkeys, but there are a few rules id like u to follow. If u **** up along the way, il forgive u if u say ur sorry, just make sure it dont happen again. I want u to choose right from wrong not because i said it was wrong, but because u learn over the course of ur life WHY it is wrong. So do wat u want, just make the right choices, and learn from ur mistakes".

platinummatt!
11-12-2006, 05:14 PM
huh?????????

The Noose
11-12-2006, 05:25 PM
huh?????????

lol.

That post was in three parts!

Ignore the first 2. Read the God speech at the bottom. I was attempting to see things from Gods view. The idea behind him giving us free will, but telling us to do only wat he wants us to.

K-DOGG
11-13-2006, 12:51 PM
Yes, I understand that however, we are given the right to choose, but essentially told what choices to make or suffer. Most don't want to suffer so they choose what is required of them. If we truly have free will, then we should be free not to believe without risking eternal damnation. (Keep in mind, this from a religious standpoint, not societal)


That sounds like a bit of a paradox. Why would someone who chooses "not to believe" believe they are "risking" anything?

Only those who choose to believe accept the possibility of eternal consequences for poor choices. By offering the question, as you phrased it, you are essentially saying, "Okay, I choose not to believe that God exists; but don't want to go to hell if I'm wrong."

Why would one who doesn't believe in God be worried about any consequencies if they turn out to be wrong? And, in regards to God punishing those who chose not to believe after being told so, why would he make himself a liar by not fulfilling his promise of punishment for those that don't adhere to his commandments?

MANGLER
12-28-2009, 02:21 AM
According to religion, God gave us free will. Yet, we must give our will to God or face eternal damnation. If we do, is it really free? That's like giving someone a million dollars with restrictions on its use. Discuss.

This **** is only true if you believe in God.