I don't know about how amateur boxing is conducted everywhere else but here in the UK there is a bit of controversy in the amateurs about having your hands down whilst you box. Boxers have been disqualified for using this tactic, but I was reading another board where they were debating this subject and someone accurately bought up the fact that Cuban boxers often fight with their hands down a little bit to draw the opponent in and then counter to score points. After he said that he then went on to say that Cuba is one of the most successfull amateur boxing nations in the world, if not the most successful.

So it's a valid point, should boxers be penalised for fighting with a certain style?

Actually on that board where I was reading the discussion there was a ref giving his point of view and he was basically saying that referee's should be allowed to penalise a boxer for that. I really disagreed with him but his justification was that a boxer must defend himself at all times. It was interesting to see the responses of others who were saying that havign a traditional hands up approach isnt always the best style. They pointed towards Ali and Hamed who were elusive in their styles to avoid shots who fought with their hands down.

My opinion is that boxers should be allowed to fight how they want. If they have their hands down and are successful then great. If they have their hands down and take shots they'll soon put them up! It only becomes the responsiblity of the ref when the boxer is taking undue punishment. But remember; hands down doesnt always equate to taking shots.

What are your thoughts?

I don't think any punch or style should be penalized.

As long as your hitting with the padded area of the fist, which (in my opinion) is anything other than the palm or the forearm; and punching to a target that's on the front of the opponent & above the belt; then it should all be fair game.

Hell, I even think they should allow punching to the legs.

These dumb rules that try to dictate your style like no awkward looking punches, or ducking below the belt level of the opponent; are just stupid.

I think it's a travesty that there's even a need for a discussion like that. Boxers should be allowed to fight any style they want, as long as they don't make any illegal moves, like holding, ducking too deep or hitting outside the designated area. Different styles add spice to boxing. Who wants to watch two robots?

As for the "protect yourself at all times" argument, this just shows me what I already knew: People who become referees and judges in boxing, do so because they don't have the talent to become trainers, and are power hungry control freaks (Okay, that's putting it a bit bluntly ;)). If you aren't allowed to fight the way you're most comfortable, how is that going to protect you? And where do you draw the line? I mena, throwing your own punches opens you up to get hit by a counter. By that line of thinking, throwing punches should be illegal too. Ridiculous.

I don't think any punch or style should be penalized.

As long as your hitting with the padded area of the fist, which (in my opinion) is anything other than the palm or the forearm; and punching to a target that's on the front of the opponent & above the belt; then it should all be fair game.

Hell, I even think they should allow punching to the legs.

These dumb rules that try to dictate your style like no awkward looking punches, or ducking below the belt level of the opponent; are just stupid.

Punching the legs?!? HAHA!!! Gotta disagree on that one! :D

Also, I think the ducking below the belt thing, makes boxing messy, just like excessive holding. I don't think it's entirely fair to the opponent either, because you're taking away his chances to hit the designated area in kind of the same way as turning your back does. Should that be legal as well?

its stupid,i got told that if i duck 2 low i can be disqualified,is that true?i like 2 duck and weave,2 avoid punches,i never did get that 1

I think it's a travesty that there's even a need for a discussion like that. Boxers should be allowed to fight any style they want, as long as they don't make any illegal moves, like holding, ducking too deep or hitting outside the designated area. Different styles add spice to boxing. Who wants to watch two robots?

As for the "protect yourself at all times" argument, this just shows me what I already knew: People who become referees and judges in boxing, do so because they don't have the talent to become trainers, and are power hungry control freaks (Okay, that's putting it a bit bluntly ;)). If you aren't allowed to fight the way you're most comfortable, how is that going to protect you? And where do you draw the line? I mena, throwing your own punches opens you up to get hit by a counter. By that line of thinking, throwing punches should be illegal too. Ridiculous.
Yep, its a complete farce that controversy surrounds this topic but it does so here we are.

In my opinion if you are ducking and slipping shots with your hands down you are a better boxer than someone who puts their hands up and semi takes the shots anyway. It's almost as if the inferior style of boxing is being encouraged. A complete shame that styles are not being allowed to flourish amongst these referee's. I wonder how "protect yourself at all times" suddenly doesnt apply when you turn pro? :confused:

Food for thought there.

its stupid,i got told that if i duck 2 low i can be disqualified,is that true?i like 2 duck and weave,2 avoid punches,i never did get that 1
No its below the belt line. A boy did it to me the other day in sparring and the trainer immediately stepped in and said "you know not to do that!". Ha.

So yeah duck and dodge all you want just dont go below the belt line of the opponent or you are basically fighting illegally. Fair I think.

yeh fair enough,ill have to watch that 1 then,i jus never really look how low i am goin,all i know is i aint gettin hit when i do it so its abit of a habbit

Punching the legs?!? HAHA!!! Gotta disagree on that one! :D

I come from a thai kickboxing background so I think you're just bein a wuss on that one. :p


Also, I think the ducking below the belt thing, makes boxing messy, just like excessive holding. I don't think it's entirely fair to the opponent either, because you're taking away his chances to hit the designated area in kind of the same way as turning your back does. Should that be legal as well?

Turning your back should not be legal, but the ducking rule promotes tall fighters. Boxing's not basketball. Height shouldn't be the determining factor in the rules, when it's not in a fight (mma folks know this). If I want to come in under your radar and come up with a huge rising punch if you decide to lean down, that should be my perogative.

EDIT: just to clarify I'm talking about coming in from a low crouch, not a bent at the waist stance.

Excessive holding's not good but you've got other options there as well like allowing holding & hitting, or maybe allowing a little bit of wrestling (no intentional throws tho) in the clinch.
"Dirty Boxing" is legal in MMA and thai kickboxing without so many problems with it.

Yep, its a complete farce that controversy surrounds this topic but it does so here we are.

In my opinion if you are ducking and slipping shots with your hands down you are a better boxer than someone who puts their hands up and semi takes the shots anyway. It's almost as if the inferior style of boxing is being encouraged. A complete shame that styles are not being allowed to flourish amongst these referee's. I wonder how "protect yourself at all times" suddenly doesnt apply when you turn pro? :confused:

Food for thought there.

especially when in the pros u have no headgear,lighter gloves

I can't believe they penalize fighters in the UK for fighting with their hands down, thats the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

The greatest boxer of all time Sugar Ray Robinson fought with his hands down, way down as a matter of fact. If you keep your distance from your opponent you can keep your hands lower, when they are in close you lift them up. Not only does this release strain on your shoulders but you actually get more power from your punches when you start from your hands at a lower position.

When you walk in to a gym a trainer is gonna teach you to fight with your hands glued to your face, but for many people that develop their own style, you learn that keeping your hands way up isn't necessarily the best way to fight.

I agree that boxers should be able to fight with any "Style." I liken that discussion to something such as "you can't use X style of defense because it gives you an edge." Its ridiculous. As long as a fighter boxes clean, no breaking of rules, he should be able to do whatever he feels is best for him.

I don't know about how amateur boxing is conducted everywhere else but here in the UK there is a bit of controversy in the amateurs about having your hands down whilst you box. Boxers have been disqualified for using this tactic, but I was reading another board where they were debating this subject and someone accurately bought up the fact that Cuban boxers often fight with their hands down a little bit to draw the opponent in and then counter to score points. After he said that he then went on to say that Cuba is one of the most successfull amateur boxing nations in the world, if not the most successful.

So it's a valid point, should boxers be penalised for fighting with a certain style?

Actually on that board where I was reading the discussion there was a ref giving his point of view and he was basically saying that referee's should be allowed to penalise a boxer for that. I really disagreed with him but his justification was that a boxer must defend himself at all times. It was interesting to see the responses of others who were saying that havign a traditional hands up approach isnt always the best style. They pointed towards Ali and Hamed who were elusive in their styles to avoid shots who fought with their hands down.

My opinion is that boxers should be allowed to fight how they want. If they have their hands down and are successful then great. If they have their hands down and take shots they'll soon put them up! It only becomes the responsiblity of the ref when the boxer is taking undue punishment. But remember; hands down doesnt always equate to taking shots.

What are your thoughts?



Hands-down is not a "style" it is a technical flaw. The foolish people who justify it on the basis of Muhammad Ali or Roy Jones always seem to forget to mention how much talent they have and how few people there are in the world who have that much talent. I have seen hundreds of boxers try to imitate Ali and Jones, and they got their damn fool heads punched in because of it. There is no substitute for good boxing skills.

Hands-down is not a "style" it is a technical flaw. The foolish people who justify it on the basis of Muhammad Ali or Roy Jones always seem to forget to mention how much talent they have and how few people there are in the world who have that much talent. I have seen hundreds of boxers try to imitate Ali and Jones, and they got their damn fool heads punched in because of it. There is no substitute for good boxing skills.

Actually, holding the hands low is a very old style dating back to the bareknucklers. The guard would come up higher as the distance closed.

http://z.about.com/d/afroamhistory/1/0/s/1/jackjohnson.jpg

i think its ridiculous for rules to dictate style. all a boxer has to do is punch the opponent in the designated areas. how he wants to do this is his perogative. all the ref has to do is keep the fight clean and fair. everyone is making good points and the consensus is that it would be stupid and inhibiting to have a 'rule' on defence. imagine seeing a young ali floating around the ring popping jabs into his opponent and slipping everything coming at him only to be disqualified without being touched. hmm.

The Half guard used by boxers like RJJ and Joan Guzman dictate that your left hand is down but you use your shoulder to defend the right side

Hell Shannon Briggs won his heavyweight title fighting with his hands very low

my trainer says hes never had someone skilled enough to use the shoulder roll defense, and hes had some good fighters

I think you should be able to have your hands up or down when your boxing , at the end of the day , if you have your hands down and keep getting caught its you thats gonna feel it.

The Half guard used by boxers like RJJ and Joan Guzman dictate that your left hand is down but you use your shoulder to defend the right side

Hell Shannon Briggs won his heavyweight title fighting with his hands very low



.....yeah, and the fool standing in front of him let him get away with it.

Hands-down is not a "style" it is a technical flaw. The foolish people who justify it on the basis of Muhammad Ali or Roy Jones always seem to forget to mention how much talent they have and how few people there are in the world who have that much talent. I have seen hundreds of boxers try to imitate Ali and Jones, and they got their damn fool heads punched in because of it. There is no substitute for good boxing skills.

I respectfully disagree with you on this one, Potatoes. I know there is merit in what you say, so I'm not by any means questioning your logic, but I've seen orthodox guys use the "left hand down" style so that they can shoulder-guard into hiding their right hand. Granted, this isn't their "base style," but I've seen it used against guys with short jabs. They bring the shoulder across and then set up a right-uppercut/left hook combo that can be really devestating. (Just for the record, I've also seen this NOT work at all, and its funny as hell. Guys drop the left hand and get cannon'ed in the face with jab, jab, overhand right).

I think it's a travesty that there's even a need for a discussion like that. Boxers should be allowed to fight any style they want, as long as they don't make any illegal moves, like holding, ducking too deep or hitting outside the designated area. Different styles add spice to boxing. Who wants to watch two robots?

As for the "protect yourself at all times" argument, this just shows me what I already knew: People who become referees and judges in boxing, do so because they don't have the talent to become trainers, and are power hungry control freaks (Okay, that's putting it a bit bluntly ;)). If you aren't allowed to fight the way you're most comfortable, how is that going to protect you? And where do you draw the line? I mena, throwing your own punches opens you up to get hit by a counter. By that line of thinking, throwing punches should be illegal too. Ridiculous.

uuuum i fight and i ref so i cant agrre there.

det var ganske dumt sagt

I don't know about how amateur boxing is conducted everywhere else but here in the UK there is a bit of controversy in the amateurs about having your hands down whilst you box. Boxers have been disqualified for using this tactic, but I was reading another board where they were debating this subject and someone accurately bought up the fact that Cuban boxers often fight with their hands down a little bit to draw the opponent in and then counter to score points. After he said that he then went on to say that Cuba is one of the most successfull amateur boxing nations in the world, if not the most successful.

So it's a valid point, should boxers be penalised for fighting with a certain style?

Actually on that board where I was reading the discussion there was a ref giving his point of view and he was basically saying that referee's should be allowed to penalise a boxer for that. I really disagreed with him but his justification was that a boxer must defend himself at all times. It was interesting to see the responses of others who were saying that havign a traditional hands up approach isnt always the best style. They pointed towards Ali and Hamed who were elusive in their styles to avoid shots who fought with their hands down.

My opinion is that boxers should be allowed to fight how they want. If they have their hands down and are successful then great. If they have their hands down and take shots they'll soon put them up! It only becomes the responsiblity of the ref when the boxer is taking undue punishment. But remember; hands down doesnt always equate to taking shots.

What are your thoughts?


a style which is dangerous without very good reflexes, and a style that will fail if you dont change it as you get older and slower..............that being said i by now means think that it is a valid reason to dq someone

a style which is dangerous without very good reflexes, and a style that will fail if you dont change it as you get older and slower..............that being said i by now means think that it is a valid reason to dq someone
So the debate is now that they arent good enough to do it so we should disqualify anyone that tries?

So the debate is now that they arent good enough to do it so we should disqualify anyone that tries?

read it again

read it again
I read it correctly first time.

I know you wouldnt agree with a DQ under those circumstances but the only point people are making in return is "they aren't as good as the pro's, so they shouldn't be able to do it", which has about 0.5% logic to it.

I read it correctly first time.

I know you wouldnt agree with a DQ under those circumstances but the only point people are making in return is "they aren't as good as the pro's, so they shouldn't be able to do it", which has about 0.5% logic to it.

well i dont agrre with that point, if thats what you meant.

that style is actually better for ammatures because reflexes are better at young age ang because ammatures has bigger gloves, helmets and because most ammature boxers dont have the power off pros.

uuuum i fight and i ref so i cant agrre there.

det var ganske dumt sagt

I know I was making a very broad generalization, but for the most part, I do belive I'm right. Sadly.

well i dont agrre with that point, if thats what you meant.

that style is actually better for ammatures because reflexes are better at young age ang because ammatures has bigger gloves, helmets and because most ammature boxers dont have the power off pros.

Just because you fight doesn't mean you have the talent to do so. any body with the money or opp can fight.
that style would never be good for an amateur, where tech ability will prevail 99 percent of the time.

The only reason to DQ someone for fighting with their hands down would be if they are getting creamed, as in stunned and unable to defend himself, or are slapping with the back of their gloves, which is illegal in boxing. As far as ducking below the waist, this generally means bending at the waist, exposing the back of the head to an inadvertent rabbit punch or, at least, not presenting the opponent with any target they can legally hit. Nobody is going to be able to squat straight down until their head is below the waist for very long. It's too tiring. And bending at the waist isn't very advisable either, except for a pure boxer, since nowadays people tend to bring their knees up when they see this. In any case, one hand down doesn't mean the hand has to dangle below the waist. Foreman fought for a long time from the Philly shell, in which one hand is low, but well above the waist. This being said, one needs really good reflexes and body movement to fight with the left low a la Jimmy Young, Roy Jones, etc.

yah in my last fight I got 2 points taken off for ducking and putting my left shoulder up.