who is it p4p

who is it p4p

All-Time- either Archie Moore or Sugar Ray Robinson.
Honorable mentions include Duran, Barrera, Joe Louis, and Jack Dempsey.

These days - Floyd Mayweather, Hopkins, and James Toney.

i liked the way joe louis did his thing

Technique, all-time?

Probably Willie Pep. Robinson, IMO, was the p4p best ever; but his defense wasn't as good as Pep's, and the whole point of boxing is to hit without being hit in return.

Joe Louis's technique was excellent as well. Pernell Whitaker is also a good mention, though he was a bit unorthodox. Benny Leonard, Joe Gans, Sam Langford, Moore.

Good question; but I'd probably go with Pep, B. Leonard, Gans, Robinson, Whitaker, or Louis.

joe louis...he had textbook form while still throwing it with lots of power and speed

Robinson, Louis, or Tyson. Honorable mentions, Ali, Liston, Leonard, Whitaker...

Technique, all-time?

Probably Willie Pep. Robinson, IMO, was the p4p best ever; but his defense wasn't as good as Pep's, and the whole point of boxing is to hit without being hit in return.

Joe Louis's technique was excellent as well. Pernell Whitaker is also a good mention, though he was a bit unorthodox. Benny Leonard, Joe Gans, Sam Langford, Moore.

Good question; but I'd probably go with Pep, B. Leonard, Gans, Robinson, Whitaker, or Louis.


Nice post, you got a lot of guys I brainfarted on like Pep, B Leonard, Gans, Langford, and whitaker.

I think the reason I went with the guys I did was because of their ability to have the total package of offense and defense. Pep and Whitaker were defensive masters for sure, but it'd be nice if they had a lil more offensively.

Winky's another guy I wish I'd added as well.

Robinson, Louis, or Tyson. Honorable mentions, Ali, Liston, Leonard, Whitaker...

Ali might be on there if he didn't always box with his arms at around his upper stomach all the time. Other than that he was fine.

Holmes possessed a great technique

As for today, I probably go with Winky.

Ali might be on there if he didn't always box with his arms at around his upper stomach all the time. Other than that he was fine.

He threw perfect punches. his jab, right hand left hook anything. That's how he got leverage to drop people and knock them out.

I'd say Louis and Tyson overall...P4P I'll lean towards Willie Pep....

Ali did not throw perfect punches. He did not have a single punch that I would call perfect. His right hand was often an arm punch, his left hook was nothing special, and his uppercuts did not have a lot of his bodyweight behind them. His jab was his greatest punch, but even then it wasn't as good as Louis's, Holmes's, or Liston's jab. It was effective because of his speed but he did not often get the weight behind it by stepping into it.

I would say Holmes was a better puncher than Ali when you compare the form and technique of both men.

Louis gets it for me. He had every punch to perfection.

Ali did not throw perfect punches. He did not have a single punch that I would call perfect. His right hand was often an arm punch, his left hook was nothing special, and his uppercuts did not have a lot of his bodyweight behind them. His jab was his greatest punch, but even then it wasn't as good as Louis's, Holmes's, or Liston's jab. It was effective because of his speed but he did not often get the weight behind it by stepping into it.

I would say Holmes was a better puncher than Ali when you compare the form and technique of both men.

Louis gets it for me. He had every punch to perfection.

Liston's jab was better than Ali's, but not Holmes or Louis. Ali ws definetely a better puncher than Holmes. Ali right hand is way better than Holmes. If his right hand was an arm punch then explain to me how he was able to score knockouts on the right hand alone? Holmes' right hand wasn't much to speak of. it was decent, but Ali's was much better. More power, speed snap and weight usage into it. The only punch Ali wasn't really good at was his uppercuts. His hook had good technique, because they were short and compact. Ali was a good puncher, and he did throw perfect punches at times.

Throwing perfect punches occasionally like vs. Bonavena is not the same as consistently displaying great technique on your punches. Of course Ali could punch well with the right hand when he set himself to but this wasn't often. His right hand was often described as "chopping" and I agree, it was more of a tricep punch. Most of the time.

As for Holmes not having as good of a jab as Ali, I couldn't disagree more. Holmes had a harder, stiffer jab. He really mastered stepping in with it. Ali's jab was fast as hell but didn't quite have the power Holmes, Louis, and Liston put in theirs.

Throwing perfect punches occasionally like vs. Bonavena is not the same as consistently displaying great technique on your punches. Of course Ali could punch well with the right hand when he set himself to but this wasn't often. His right hand was often described as "chopping" and I agree, it was more of a tricep punch. Most of the time.

As for Holmes not having as good of a jab as Ali, I couldn't disagree more. Holmes had a harder, stiffer jab. He really mastered stepping in with it. Ali's jab was fast as hell but didn't quite have the power Holmes, Louis, and Liston put in theirs.

That's because Ali didn't sit on it. Ali's left had just enough power as Holmes left, when he sat on his punches. Watch the Cleveland Williams fight and you will see Ali sit on his jab and other punches. His left was just as powerful and his right was more powerful than Holmes.

joe louis was amazing

Ali not sitting on his jab is part of the reason why his technique wasn't as good. Yes, Ali was terribly effective because of his natural gifts but his technique wasn't that great. Take away his speed and he's a target with average punching power. Take away Louis's speed and he's still a good fighter because of his fundemanetals.

I know his name is synonymous with proper technique and it's not exactly an original pick, but when watching a Harold Johnson fight one can see why he recieved so much acclaim back in the day (and still does to this day) for his boxing technique...So smooth and so effortless in style, with just about the prettiest "proper" boxing form that I've ever seen on a fighter.

Harold Johnson was definitely a superb technician, one of the best P4P. What is ironic is that despite his incredibly strong looking physique, he was not a huge puncher. Many times a fighter's physique is deceptive as there are rail thin and paunchy bombers and herculean shaped master boxers like Johnson.

Many times a fighter's physique is deceptive as there are rail thin and paunchy bombers

Like Jack Dempsey.

and herculean shaped master boxers

Like Ken Norton.

has anyone mentioned Larry Holmes?

Ali might be on there if he didn't always box with his arms at around his upper stomach all the time. Other than that he was fine.In his prime, Ali kept his hands at chest level because it shortened the distance his punches had to travel to hit a shorter opponent which was the case with the majority of the guys he fought. It compounded his handspeed and allowed him to counter punch quicker.

As Ali was not a guy who usually blocked and parried punches that were headed for his jaw, he didn't keep his hand up high in the traditional fighting stance.

As Ali aged and his reflexes dulled, his hands were held higher.

In his prime, Ali kept his hands at chest level because it shortened the distance his punches had to travel to hit a shorter opponent which was the case with the majority of the guys he fought. It compounded his handspeed and allowed him to counter punch quicker.

As Ali was not a guy who usually blocked and parried punches that were headed for his jaw, he didn't keep his hand up high in the traditional fighting stance.

As Ali aged and his reflexes dulled, his hands were held higher.

I've even seen fights in Ali prime where he held his hands high. Mildenberger, Folley, and others.

willie pep
joe louis
floyd mayweather jr

I was veeery impressed with some very old footage of I think Joe Gans (I am almost sure it was him)

honorable mention to
ray robinson (his defense was little used, be it choice or necessity)
whitaker (very unorthodox, so i dont know)
can i say mike mccallum?

I forgot Archie Moore, Ezzard Charles, Joe Walcott, and from what i could only
read Jimmy Bivins and Charley Burley

Ricardo "Finito" Lopez

Ali was never very good at parrying a jab, not at any point in his career. When he slowed down he did do a better job of covering up, especially on the ropes, but the parry was one skill he never mastered.

I probably shouldn't have also forgot guys like...
Tunney, Greb, Loughrain, Mickey Walker, Langford, Giardello, Kid Chocolate, Kid Gavilan, Corbett, Mendoza, Figg, Henry Armstrong, Harada, Khaosai Galaxy, Benitez, Monzon, Jack Johnson, Dempsey, Cuevas, De la Hoya, Sal Sanchez, Mclellan, Benn, Tzyuu, JC Chavez, man I could be here a while....

I probably shouldn't have also forgot guys like...
Tunney, Greb, Loughrain, Mickey Walker, Langford, Giardello, Kid Chocolate, Kid Gavilan, Corbett, Mendoza, Figg, Henry Armstrong, Harada, Khaosai Galaxy, Benitez, Monzon, Jack Johnson, Dempsey, Cuevas, De la Hoya, Sal Sanchez, Mclellan, Benn, Tzyuu, JC Chavez, man I could be here a while....

yuo forgot Cheech Marin

Ali was never very good at parrying a jab, not at any point in his career. When he slowed down he did do a better job of covering up, especially on the ropes, but the parry was one skill he never mastered. Boxing historians like to shovel that line as evidence of Ali's shortcomings as a fighter when in fact his unconventional unpredictable style was one of his greatest strengths.

Parrying a jab with the right hand isn't rocket science. It's pretty easy to learn and execute. In Ali's case, he chose to free up his right hand in order to counter over his opponents jab which requires instictive timing, speed and gauge of distance. Ali would sometimes pull back an inch out of range of a jab before countering (Ali-Liston II, Ali-Williams ).

Henry Cooper in his biography stated:

"I would jab once, the I'd double jab. He'd jerk his head back to the first, then the second and I'd sling in yet another jab and he'd jerk back from that too. He could judge a punch to the last quarter inch...he could play with margins as narrow as that...but after his jerks he could still come back with a sneaky right hand."

Zora Folley in Sports Illustrated:

There's no way to train yourself for what he does. The moves, the speed, the punches and the way he changes style every time you think you got him figured. The right hands Ali hit me with just had no business landing but they did. They came from nowhere. Many times he was in the wrong position but he hit me anyway. I've never seen anyone who could do that. The knockdown punch was so fast that I never saw it. He has lots of snap, and when the punches land they dizzy your head; they fuzz up your mind. He's smart. The trickiest fighter I've seen. He's had twenty-nine fights and acts like he's had a hundred. He could write the book on boxing, and anyone that fights him should be made to read it."

I only seen a bit of him but earnie shavers had good technique for his right

If you want to talk about a guy who did everything right, we can start the conversation with Larry Holmes. Holmes had great balance and shifted his weight properly for every movement, particularly his jab. His jab was so fierce it was elemental to his defense as well. He could offset any shot with that left jab. He was mobile as well and could throw while on the go. He threw beautiful combinations and was just a fluid man.

Boxing historians like to shovel that line as evidence of Ali's shortcomings as a fighter when in fact his unconventional unpredictable style was one of his greatest strengths.

Parrying a jab with the right hand isn't rocket science. It's pretty easy to learn and execute. In Ali's case, he chose to free up his right hand in order to counter over his opponents jab which requires instictive timing, speed and gauge of distance. Ali would sometimes pull back an inch out of range of a jab before countering (Ali-Liston II, Ali-Williams ).

Henry Cooper in his biography stated:

"I would jab once, the I'd double jab. He'd jerk his head back to the first, then the second and I'd sling in yet another jab and he'd jerk back from that too. He could judge a punch to the last quarter inch...he could play with margins as narrow as that...but after his jerks he could still come back with a sneaky right hand."

Zora Folley in Sports Illustrated:

There's no way to train yourself for what he does. The moves, the speed, the punches and the way he changes style every time you think you got him figured. The right hands Ali hit me with just had no business landing but they did. They came from nowhere. Many times he was in the wrong position but he hit me anyway. I've never seen anyone who could do that. The knockdown punch was so fast that I never saw it. He has lots of snap, and when the punches land they dizzy your head; they fuzz up your mind. He's smart. The trickiest fighter I've seen. He's had twenty-nine fights and acts like he's had a hundred. He could write the book on boxing, and anyone that fights him should be made to read it."

Great post. Ali knew what he was doing in the ring.

Ali may have been one of the most talented, high intelligent fighters, but certainly did not have the best technique. One of the only fighters to avoid punches by moving backwards, but that was a testament to his amazing ability.

If I have to go with the most technically sound technique for a fighter I might have to choose Duran. Hands high, head movment, jabbing, body work and good use of both hands.

Offensively, Terry Norris was one of the most complete fighters you will see. His over agressiveness could sometimes get the best of him, but wide arsenal involved every weapon in the big. I've seen him use, or knock out someone with every punch you can throw.

Carlos maussa and Ricardo Mayorga

louis did his business in the ring so smooth.its like damn! thats why he's the best ever to me. behind ali

hands down, best technique, Ricardo "Finito" Lopez

louis did his business in the ring so smooth.its like damn! thats why he's the best ever to me. behind ali

Out of all the heavyweights, maybe, but p4p, probably Robinson.

Out of all the heavyweights, maybe, but p4p, probably Robinson.

u wanna know the difference between your answer and mine? it is that its YOUR opinion.:wave:

u wanna know the difference between your answer and mine? it is that its YOUR opinion.:wave:

Ooooook.:ugh:

Ooooook.:ugh:

joe louis pwns ali all day everyday in primes:tapedshut and rocky marciano pwns ali

some of you forgot Hagler, SRL, Alexis Argullo, Salvador Sanchez and Barrera and even Morales sometimes if he stick to plan and move around

I agree with Ricardo Lopez. That guy always had his hands up, elbows tucked in, and he threw every punch with great precision.

I would also add Hagler, Barrera, Trinidad, Duran, and Arguello.

Robinson didn't have very good technique. Dont get me wrong he had skills but his technique wasn't as good as some of the ATG's, he just had incredible heart, stamina, chin, punch etc.

The best technique all time was Joe Louis and Roberto Duran. They were flawless.

joe louis pwns ali all day everyday in primes:tapedshut and rocky marciano pwns ali

And Jack Johnson owns Tyson.:tapedshut

And Jack Johnson owns Tyson.:tapedshut

noooooooooooooooooooooo!

noooooooooooooooooooooo!

Johnson's defensive wizardry would be the perfect antedote for Tyson's bob-and-weave.:banana:

Johnson's defensive wizardry would be the perfect antedote for Tyson's bob-and-weave.:banana:

marcianos low center of gravity and power in both hands would just **** on ali for 15rounds.:boxing:

marcianos low center of gravity and power in both hands would just **** on ali for 15rounds.:boxing:

Oh, well then i guess we are in agreement of both statements, right?:boxing:

I like Cotto's style, better earlyier in his career. Chin down, hands always in the right place boxes well from either stance back foot and front and also throws with power! I aint saying he better than the aforementioned guys but his style WAS perfect! I say WAS coz he's kinda gettin more aggresive and wild, leving himself more open and he seems a lil less patient but early i really luved his technique

Oh, well then i guess we are in agreement of both statements, right?:boxing:

of ali losing? hell yeah

of ali losing? hell yeah

What about tyson?:boxing:

What about tyson?:boxing:

tyson would stomp on his testicles so they can feel the way he feels:boxing:

Robinson didn't have very good technique. Dont get me wrong he had skills but his technique wasn't as good as some of the ATG's, he just had incredible heart, stamina, chin, punch etc.

The best technique all time was Joe Louis and Roberto Duran. They were flawless.

Thats what I was thinking. He kept his hands low among other things, He got away with a lot because he was so fast and powerful. He did have awesome footwork though.

Thats what I was thinking. He kept his hands low among other things, He got away with a lot because he was so fast and powerful. He did have awesome footwork though.

Yeah kinda like a Roy Jones or Ali, didnt do it right but did it damn well!

tyson would stomp on his testicles so they can feel the way he feels:boxing:

Well, Johnson is black, and he'll never let Tyson forget it!:boxing:

Well, Johnson is black, and he'll never let Tyson forget it!:boxing:

noone cares what colour your johnson is

noone cares what colour your johnson is

That went way over your head, didn't it?