View Full Version : Joe Calzaghe above average only


Flagellum Dei
10-28-2006, 07:52 PM
Am I the only person who believes that Joe Calzaghe is an above average boxer at best? The line "always some angle to hang onto the title longer than I should have had it", from Rocky springs to mind!

Look at his record, where is Roy Jones, where is Glen Johnson? Nigel Benn would have destroyed him inside 3 rounds! And Benn fought the best that the division had to offer - he didn't duck anyone!

As for Calzaghe requesting a bout with Bernard Hopkins, surely this demonstrates the lengths that is he prepared to go to in order to hold onto the title the easy way - and avoid any potential defeats!

Yea, you could argue that Kessler also has no great names on his record, but at least he's prepared to box Calzaghe! As for the Lacy bout, Lacy was a middle weight at best! Gone are the days of Hagler, Leonard, Hearns and Duran, at least they had the courage to fight each, and didn't run from anyone!

Flagellum Dei

rooq
10-28-2006, 08:04 PM
yes. you are the only person.

nah...the calzaghe ducking/excuses issue is never gonna go away unless he fights kessler which is getting less and less likely. its a pity cos i think he really could have become a legend. but even with his resume, i think he is far above average.

i'm not so sure that benn would have destroyed him in three rounds, but it would have been a great fight.

!! Anorak
10-28-2006, 10:00 PM
Lacy was a middleweight?

Shanus
10-28-2006, 11:00 PM
Am I the only person who believes that Joe Calzaghe is an above average boxer at best? The line "always some angle to hang onto the title longer than I should have had it", from Rocky springs to mind!

Look at his record, where is Roy Jones, where is Glen Johnson? Nigel Benn would have destroyed him inside 3 rounds! And Benn fought the best that the division had to offer - he didn't duck anyone!

As for Calzaghe requesting a bout with Bernard Hopkins, surely this demonstrates the lengths that is he prepared to go to in order to hold onto the title the easy way - and avoid any potential defeats!

Yea, you could argue that Kessler also has no great names on his record, but at least he's prepared to box Calzaghe! As for the Lacy bout, Lacy was a middle weight at best! Gone are the days of Hagler, Leonard, Hearns and Duran, at least they had the courage to fight each, and didn't run from anyone!

Flagellum Dei

So what are you saying? I'm willing to fight Calzaghe for cheaper, I have no opponents at all.

That's a pretty dull argument.

dumdane
10-28-2006, 11:05 PM
Lacy was a middleweight?

I think what he is refering to is that Lacy is very short for a top SMW.
Can't think of anyone inside top-20 who's shorter - but haven't checked.

Even at MW i guess he wouldn't be tall really.
.

Shanus
10-28-2006, 11:10 PM
I think what he is refering to is that Lacy is very short for a top SMW.
Can't think of anyone inside top-20 who's shorter - but haven't checked.

Even at MW i guess he wouldn't be tall really.
.

Marvin Hagler, Ray Leonard, Winky Wright.

hemichromis
10-29-2006, 03:14 AM
I think what he is refering to is that Lacy is very short for a top SMW.
Can't think of anyone inside top-20 who's shorter - but haven't checked.

Even at MW i guess he wouldn't be tall really.
.


he still looked bigger than calzaghe

bika looked 20lbs heavier!

MickyHatton
10-29-2006, 05:13 AM
Am I the only person who believes that Joe Calzaghe is an above average boxer at best? The line "always some angle to hang onto the title longer than I should have had it", from Rocky springs to mind!

Look at his record, where is Roy Jones, where is Glen Johnson? Nigel Benn would have destroyed him inside 3 rounds! And Benn fought the best that the division had to offer - he didn't duck anyone!

As for Calzaghe requesting a bout with Bernard Hopkins, surely this demonstrates the lengths that is he prepared to go to in order to hold onto the title the easy way - and avoid any potential defeats!

Yea, you could argue that Kessler also has no great names on his record, but at least he's prepared to box Calzaghe! As for the Lacy bout, Lacy was a middle weight at best! Gone are the days of Hagler, Leonard, Hearns and Duran, at least they had the courage to fight each, and didn't run from anyone!

Flagellum Dei

Even Nigel doesn't agree with this statement, Benn thinks that Calzaghe could have dominated the division in his era.
Calzaghe is a great fighter, one of the greatest super middles of all time but....agreed there will always be that nagging doubt but its plain to see how good the guy is!

GEOFFHAYES
10-29-2006, 06:18 AM
Joe probably has more natural talent than any boxer I've seen. He has never TRIED to turn opponents as well as he can, move in and out of range as well as he can, turn and strike as well as he can, rinse and repeat as well as he can, judge distance and timing as well as he can - it was all there from the start, and just occurs in fights naturally! He doesn't even think about it. This is what I've been told by a guy who's opinion I respect, and who has watched Joe from his earliest days. His mind doesn't understand his craft as well as his insticts do, and his main problem has always been that his heart is TOO big! That was the only worry against Lacy. Joe loves nothing more than getting stuck in, can't help being drawn into a fight, probably due to frustrations he's always had (eg bullied, sacrifices for boxing, career frustrations, domestic issues).

He's one of the best ever.

Flagellum Dei
10-29-2006, 08:30 AM
how is it a dull argument? The point is, that Kessler isn't afraid to fight Calzaghe, who is argued to be the best smw in the world at the present time, where as Calzaghe 'again is argued to be the best smw in the world at the present time - i'll say it twice coz you seem unable to comprehend cogent arguements' is afraid to fight him! And to be honest if Calzaghe could get away with fighting you for less money he would probably take it!
Are you telling me that you TRULY believe that Calzaghe DOES NOT dodge certain oppostion?

Southpaw Stinger
10-29-2006, 11:24 AM
The super middleweight is a young division. In the future guys like calzaghe will be the fighters that are looked back on and compared with newer guys. I personally think that Benn and prime Eubank would beat him but thats my oppinion.
Calzaghe is the first supermiddle with the ring belt and perhaps future belt holders will strive to equal his achievements, but that will be a hard thing to do. He's been overated since he beat Lacy but he was underated before that fight. He is a great fighter but he also has many faults, one of them being that he constantly pulls out of fights and also his unwillingness to travel to the USA for the big name fighters. If he did this he would get much more respect IMO.

Flagellum Dei
10-29-2006, 12:18 PM
Yea, I totally agree with those comments, I believe as stated earlier that Benn, Eubank and Watson at their peak would have destroyed Calzaghe at his! I just can't believe that people are so naive that they think he's great, they are probably the same people who claimed naseem hamed was the next big thing, or for that matter audley harrison?!?!
Any title holder could theoretically match his achievements (or lack of them really) by fighting sub-standard opposition, fortunately unlike Calzaghe and Hamed they don't want that!

col Blake
11-05-2006, 08:21 AM
The sad fact is that Flagellum Dei is right, Calzaghe has avoided the top boxers in the division for years, and now he boasts the recorded of being the champ for seven years. This sounds impressive but look at who he fought. We can all remember the snooze fests of Dave Starie, Richie Woodhall, and Robin Reid. If he wants to be the best why not fight Dariusz Michalczewski, Mikkel Kessler, or Antonio Tarver all fighters that would beat him.
He will end up fighting Clinton Woods or Brian Magee or even as he is interested in fighting lighter boxers (Bernard Hopkins) and easy domestic fight Howard Eastman.

TheHoff'sGhost
11-05-2006, 11:12 AM
prime calzaghe has the speed and power to trouble any super middleweight in history

TonyJ
11-05-2006, 01:54 PM
Calzaghe has stamina, speed, power, skill, chin....
He is still undefeated and is still very quick. He is soo much of a natural born fighter, it's amazing.
If he wins against Mikkel Kessler/Jermain Taylor (what i expected) he will go down in history as the greatest SMW-CHampion of all time. Without a doubt.

Why nobody blame Marvin Hagler for fighting SRL, Duran and Hearns, but they try to blame Calzaghe for fighting a strong SMW like Lacy or for calling out a legend like Hopkins, who has a strong lhw-body ??

In my opinion Calzaghe should fight Kessler. But i heard Kessler has problems with his body and is not ready to fight in February. But i hope they can make that fight and later in the year the fight against Taylor. Wins against these hungry champions would cement Joe's legacy.


@col What are you talking? :duh:
Dariusz Michalczewski is a LHW, who is retired and happy and has no ambitions to make a second comeback-fight after >Tiozzo beat him badly. Calzaghe wanted to fight Tarver because he knew that Tarver was a hype but good old Hopkins exposed Tarver. WHich great fighter Calzaghe should have fought? The only big name in the SMW-Devision was Sven Ottke, who refused to fight Calzaghe in GERMANY (look at the after-fight interview with Calzaghe after he punished Mario veit the first time. Ottke was scared).

potatoes
11-05-2006, 03:58 PM
If Roy Jones, James Toney, Bernard Hopkins, Antonio Tarver and many others weren't ducking him, Calzaghe would have a much better resume and a fatter bank account. But you can hardly blame them. Calzaghe would have whipped their asses and they wouldn't have made much money in the process. Calzaghe's biggest problem has been a mismanaged career.

Cutthroat
11-05-2006, 08:04 PM
If Roy Jones, James Toney, Bernard Hopkins, Antonio Tarver and many others weren't ducking him, Calzaghe would have a much better resume and a fatter bank account. But you can hardly blame them. Calzaghe would have whipped their asses and they wouldn't have made much money in the process. Calzaghe's biggest problem has been a mismanaged career.

OMFG, please shut the **** up. ALl of those fighters would've whooped Cal***gies ass and then made him suck their dick!

Calz*** is the most overrated boxer today, he's got a padded career. You don't want to admit it, you want to think that Cal*** has beaten the best of the best! He hasn't done ****! Who has Cal*** beaten that COULD actually beat those fighters? Tell me, NOBODY! So please, get off of his dick already, he wouldn't have a chance against them even in his prime.

potatoes
11-05-2006, 10:30 PM
OMFG, please shut the **** up. ALl of those fighters would've whooped Cal***gies ass and then made him suck their dick!

Calz*** is the most overrated boxer today, he's got a padded career. You don't want to admit it, you want to think that Cal*** has beaten the best of the best! He hasn't done ****! Who has Cal*** beaten that COULD actually beat those fighters? Tell me, NOBODY! So please, get off of his dick already, he wouldn't have a chance against them even in his prime.



O'Neil Bell has been ducking Calzaghe too. The cowards claim Calzaghe hasn't faught anybody, and that is true, he hasn't fought any cowards!

Flagellum Dei
11-06-2006, 06:31 AM
Yea, I agree with Hooks, everytime Calzaghe had a faint possibility of fighting someone who wasn't as old as Bing Crosby or as strong as Tweety Pie's granny, then he would mysteriously hurt his hand, or his back injury would suddenly flare up! "Oooh I've hurt my hand whilst bringing in the shopping from the car"; or "oh, whilst bending over to get my crumpets out of the toaster I may have damaged my back"!

Get him in with a vastly improved Clinton Woods, or Glen Johnston! Then after those bouts he really will have some genuine injuries to whinge about

TonyJ
11-06-2006, 01:00 PM
Who the **** is Glen Johnson??? He is a life-long journeyman. His sucess shows how bad the LHW-devision was. Antonio Tarver is a bum. Period. He was easily outboxed by Eric Harding. Look at Tarver's performance against Jones 3 and Hopkins. This war crap. And he is still ranked #1 by the ring magazine only because he is an American.
Why doesn't BHop want to fight Calzaghe. I guess it would be an easy fight. Why didn't he fight Calzaghe in 2001 for 4M P, which would be a big payday for him.
A true boxing legend, the one and only Sugar Ray Leonard realized how good Calzaghe is and you American still can't stop hating.
Calzaghe will beat Taylor, and he will show that he is the best fighter today. But after that you will claim that Taylor was just a hype or that he was too small :banana:

Flagellum Dei
11-06-2006, 04:45 PM
LOL! Firstly, i'm not an American, and secondly if I was then I'd be apalled by your apparent lack of grammar and ability to spell correctly! However, I suppose you're entitled to your somewhat mis-guided opinion, and please feel free to comment when Calzaghe's next opponent is named as 'Azuma Nelson' - provided of course that Azuma is much smaller and Lighter (which is he) and about 5 divisons below Calzaghe (which he probably still is) and is in a straight jacket for the 12 rounds!?!?

Cutthroat
11-07-2006, 12:52 AM
Who the **** is Glen Johnson??? He is a life-long journeyman. His sucess shows how bad the LHW-devision was. Antonio Tarver is a bum. Period. He was easily outboxed by Eric Harding. Look at Tarver's performance against Jones 3 and Hopkins. This war crap. And he is still ranked #1 by the ring magazine only because he is an American.
Why doesn't BHop want to fight Calzaghe. I guess it would be an easy fight. Why didn't he fight Calzaghe in 2001 for 4M P, which would be a big payday for him.
A true boxing legend, the one and only Sugar Ray Leonard realized how good Calzaghe is and you American still can't stop hating.
Calzaghe will beat Taylor, and he will show that he is the best fighter today. But after that you will claim that Taylor was just a hype or that he was too small :banana:

The only reason Sugar thinks Cal***. is good is because of how he's been beating all of these bums, all Cal***. has fought are old people, or young people who haven't been tested yet! I don't get why you think that Cal***. can actually beat Taylor! If you put sucky fighters against eachother of course one is going to look better than the other! K-9 from the contender had great punching power in the contender, why? Because they all sucked, they are all at eachother's level! You put K-9 against a guy who has a belt, and guess what? He's gonna lose!


You put Cal***gie, with a guy who's got a belt such as Taylor and guess what? He's gonna lose!

phallus
11-07-2006, 01:34 AM
i finally saw Calzone fight this weekend, JC against Bika. he's got amazing handspeed, i was actually impressed. Bika is a tough guy, but based on this performance ( the only one of JC's i've ever seen ) i don't think he'd beat Taylor, i'm not even sure he'll beat kessler. Bika couldn't hurt him, i think kessler can

GEOFFHAYES
11-07-2006, 01:56 AM
i finally saw Calzone fight this weekend, JC against Bika. he's got amazing handspeed, i was actually impressed. Bika is a tough guy, but based on this performance ( the only one of JC's i've ever seen ) i don't think he'd beat Taylor, i'm not even sure he'll beat kessler. Bika couldn't hurt him, i think kessler can

It was probably Calzaghe's worst performance ever, outside of the Salem fight.