Which champion has moved through the weights with the most ease, class and impact?

SR Leonard, Hearns, Duran, ODH, SS Mosley, Trinidad, JCC, SR Robinson etc etc

For me I will always look no further than Tommy Hearns, OK he was well beaten by Hagler but fought the wrong yet brave fight against the stronger Hagler but I still think he was unlucky with both the Leonard fights, the first he was winning comfortably and was stopped way too early the second for me he won comfortably. He destroyed Duran beat Benitez, and has won a version of the world crown at Welter, L/Mid, Mid, S/Mid, L/Heavy and Cruiserweight.

Thoughts and reason why you pick who you pick!

Which champion has moved through the weights with the most ease, class and impact?

SR Leonard, Hearns, Duran, ODH, SS Mosley, Trinidad, JCC, SR Robinson etc etc

** Henry Armstrong. Probably never heard of him, but nobody will ever surpass his achievements.

Barney Ross, Harry Greb and Bob Fitzsimmons could fight multi divisions most any time also back when it was no big deal. Study up.

** Henry Armstrong. Probably never heard of him, but nobody will ever surpass his achievements.

Barney Ross, Harry Greb and Bob Fitzsimmons could fight multi divisions most any time also back when it was no big deal. Study up.

Don't need to study up my friend I have read about most of these fighters however as with many of the 'old time greats' I do not have personal experience of watching them and forming my own opinion, now unless you are around 100 years old then I would guess you have the same problem.

Therefore your opinion must be based on hearsay or documentation or perhaps the odd piece of film footage, I personally would not allow anyone else make my mind up for me therefore I will cast my opinion on fighters I have seen and experienced!

But that's just me!

ohh a good cat fight is a brewin ...

MickyHatton has a point. Alot of people talk about how great the old timers are without ever having seen them.I don't know how many times people on here talk about how great Charley Burley was without ever seeing him fight. Whatever they read becomes gospel. Another guy is Sam Langford, we have all heard how great he was. That is the problem we have heard but not saw.

** Henry Armstrong. Probably never heard of him, but nobody will ever surpass his achievements.

Barney Ross, Harry Greb and Bob Fitzsimmons could fight multi divisions most any time also back when it was no big deal. Study up.

Also, I know that the weight standards those days where not as well documented or reported on as they are today but wasn't Harry Greb a Middleweight only?

Although following your point that they fought many times as 'catch weights' Greb did fight people like Tunney etc.

Although Tunney these days would really only be classed around Super Middle so....

MickyHatton has a point. Alot of people talk about how great the old timers are without ever having seen them.I don't know how many times people on here talk about how great Charley Burley was without ever seeing him fight. Whatever they read becomes gospel. Another guy is Sam Langford, we have all heard how great he was. That is the problem we have heard but not saw.

I think it is a good point though because if we just look at the threads and posts on this site we can see how the opinion varies on each fighter based on numerous considerations i.e. where you are from, ethnic background, style of fighter you like so we can safely say that reports and books that cover the old fights only give the opinion of that writer therefore we shouldn't take it as gospel.
Even word of mouth is unreliable as it is a common human trait to exaggerate a story even if it is only a slight exaggeration!

MickyHatton has a point. Alot of people talk about how great the old timers are without ever having seen them.I don't know how many times people on here talk about how great Charley Burley was without ever seeing him fight. Whatever they read becomes gospel. Another guy is Sam Langford, we have all heard how great he was. That is the problem we have heard but not saw.

But what I'm wondering is...When you're watching a fighter on tape or live, what you're seeing on the screen is that fighters abilities, talents, and the like...correct?

So how does fighting ability/talent (or lack of) somehow equal greatness to you?

See, I have a completely different idea on what "greatness" means to me, and fight footage is one of the least important factors in determining "greatness"...Things like historical impact, accomplishments, dominance of era, record against elite competition, standing in their era, opinions of their peers (if consistent) etc., etc., those are the things that are most important to me in determining "greatness", and if one takes the time to learn how those things relate to a particular fighter, then I firmly believe that one DOES NOT need fight footage of said fighter to determine in your own mind if or how great the fighter was/is...That is unless your compiled rankings are heavily influenced by mythical head-to-head matchups, which is something I try really hard to abstain from when I compile my own lists.


P.S. If you're curious there's fight footage of both Burley & Langford available...YouTube has one of Langford's fights (when he was prime), I believe. I also personally posted one of Burley's fight on here a few months back, and even though it was a version of Burley that was past his best, it still does give one the idea as to the style Burley used, as well as a great hint as to how good he may have been in his earlier days.

I guess I was speaking in general most people haven't seen them. Alot of people seem to go on and on about guys like Greb based on hearsay. I have formed alot of my opinions about fighters based on what I have read also. I am not denying they weren't great and you made some good points. I have seen Langford but I didn't know Burley footage existed. I guess if thousands of historians and writers say they were great you can't deny it.

OK, I can see you chaps want to limit yourselves. I've never seen Joe Calzaghe fight, so no conclusions can be drawn as to his merit according to y'all.

So instead we'll get some modern know nothing who insists that Floyd or Roy is the best ever without any basis in fact or history.

Yeah, no film footage exists of the Civil War, so we don't really know how horrible it was. No film footage = no history in the new world order.

Sho'nuff Hoss!

OK, I can see you chaps want to limit yourselves. I've never seen Joe Calzaghe fight, so no conclusions can be drawn as to his merit according to y'all.

So instead we'll get some modern know nothing who insists that Floyd or Roy is the best ever without any basis in fact or history.

Yeah, no film footage exists of the Civil War, so we don't really know how horrible it was. No film footage = no history in the new world order.

Sho'nuff Hoss!

The Cival War point was a good one. I am wrong okay. Their is no Sugar Ray Robinson welterweight footage and we know how great he was beating everyone at that weight.

Their is no Sugar Ray Robinson welterweight footage

Yes there is, but not much.

Two fights of him at that weight that I know of...one versus Charley Fusari in a 1950 title defense at welter (I own about 10 to 15 minutes worth), and another one from either '46 or '47 against Sammy Angott (I've never seen).

Yes there is, but not much.

Two fights of him at that weight that I know of...one versus Charley Fusari in a 1950 title defense at welter (I own about 10 to 15 minutes worth), and another one from either '46 or '47 against Sammy Angott (I've never seen).

I have seen the Charley Fusari fight a couple of rounds worth myself. I am an idiot okay, I just forgot and was trying to make a point. I agree with you two guys.

OK, I can see you chaps want to limit yourselves. I've never seen Joe Calzaghe fight, so no conclusions can be drawn as to his merit according to y'all.

So instead we'll get some modern know nothing who insists that Floyd or Roy is the best ever without any basis in fact or history.

Yeah, no film footage exists of the Civil War, so we don't really know how horrible it was. No film footage = no history in the new world order.

Sho'nuff Hoss!

No, I can see and understand your point and its a good one but Calzaghe is of now therefore you/us can hear the many different opinions of him usually from people we know, know of and in some cases trust however we cannot easily do that in the case of the fighters born before we were born.
In those cases we have to take at face value what has been written or said, therefore I am most comfortable making comments on fighters from the 70's onwards because they are of my era.

As for the Civil War, obviously we know it was horrible as every account says it was but I'm sure there are different accounts of severity based on which side you were on etc and who won, like any propaganda/account it will never be 100% truthful or correct.

Or are we saying because hundreds of years ago they wrote the World was flat or that Witches floated and non Witches sank that they were 100% right?

Any chance we can get back to the theme of the thread, LondonRingRules thinks I should study more and maybe he is right!

Who is in your opinion is the Greatest multi weight champion of all time regardless of when he was around!

Tommy Hearns was a good one considering how high in weight he moved up to do it. Chavez seemed to get better when he moved up in weight. Henry Armstrong would be my pick though since he jumped origanal weight classes(no junior or super weight) Feather, Light and Welter and drew with the Middleweight champion. He was also the undisputed champ which proves alot.

Or are we saying because hundreds of years ago they wrote the World was flat or that Witches floated and non Witches sank that they were 100% right?
** Nah, we have video claiming Iraq was filled with WMDs and Enron was awash in assets and Barry Bonds was clean.

Forget about all that old school mythology. Today is the only day that counts!

Duran is tremendous also. He wont belts from 135lbs to 160lbs. He pretty much skipped over jrWW to go to WW to fight big names like SRL, but does anyone doubt he could've unified the belt at jrrWW?

Remember prime Duran with time to hea/restl and train defeated a prime SRL no excuses after coming up in weight.

Would Duran have beaten SRL if the turn around time for there 2nd fight was a bit longer......maybe/maybe not but I think it would've been more competitive at the very least.

But at the end of the day Duran can say he ducked no one and took on the best fighters of his Era, an Era brimming with talent.

Duran is tremendous also. He wont belts from 135lbs to 160lbs. He pretty much skipped over jrWW to go to WW to fight big names like SRL, but does anyone doubt he could've unified the belt at jrrWW?

Remember prime Duran with time to hea/restl and train defeated a prime SRL no excuses after coming up in weight.

Would Duran have beaten SRL if the turn around time for there 2nd fight was a bit longer......maybe/maybe not but I think it would've been more competitive at the very least.

But at the end of the day Duran can say he ducked no one and took on the best fighters of his Era, an Era brimming with talent.

No arguments there, with him being naturally the smallest of those mentioned he obviously had the biggest hurdles to jump, great fighter, like Hearns when he met Hagler, Hearns to Duran was just too strong and a step too far but easily for me in the top five of all time in this list!

Duran is tremendous also. He wont belts from 135lbs to 160lbs. He pretty much skipped over jrWW to go to WW to fight big names like SRL, but does anyone doubt he could've unified the belt at jrrWW?

Remember prime Duran with time to hea/restl and train defeated a prime SRL no excuses after coming up in weight.

Would Duran have beaten SRL if the turn around time for there 2nd fight was a bit longer......maybe/maybe not but I think it would've been more competitive at the very least.

But at the end of the day Duran can say he ducked no one and took on the best fighters of his Era, an Era brimming with talent.

If I am not mistaken Duran lost to Benitez at JrWW.

P.S. If you're curious there's fight footage of both Burley & Langford available...YouTube has one of Langford's fights (when he was prime), I believe. I also personally posted one of Burley's fight on here a few months back, and even though it was a version of Burley that was past his best, it still does give one the idea as to the style Burley used, as well as a great hint as to how good he may have been in his earlier days.

WHAT?!?!? You posted one of Burley's fight on here? Could you please repost it as I have been dying to see him fight? If I am not mistaken, it should be the rematch against Oakland Billy Smith as that was supposed to be the only fight of his on film. Please let me know if you can, I think everyone here would really appreciate that.

I don't care for him, but Roy starting out with a MW title, and snoozing through easy SM and LH reigns, and then skipping over the cruisers and picking apart Ruiz in a somewhat bogus fight, well, Roy had a lotta fans and boxing people going on that he was an All-all time great.

Then his ego got the best of him as he hung around too long. They don't tell me he could beat up Dempsey, Marciano, and Ali any more. That's pretty great to have gotten that far though, to be considered in that vein.

If I am not mistaken Duran lost to Benitez at JrWW.

Nope he lost to Benitez at jrMW. But later went on to be a 2 time middleweight champion. Well his Barkley win was his real middleweight championship. Remember this is at age 38 after a career filled with 15 round championship fights that is extremly hard on the body.

Sugar Ray Robinson.... :boxing: