Oh, he's ready to go!

Coming up on "The Top 5 Reasons You Can't Blame"...

Ali had no business being in the ring, let alone against a top-notch fighter like Holmes.














That ball was on the line!



It gets by Buckner!



Michigan can't take a timeout!



Tunney is down!



No good, wide right!



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The Top 5 Reasons You Can't Blame Muhammad Ali for Fighting Larry Holmes

Hello, I'm butterfly1964, and Welcome to The Top Five Reasons You Can't Blame. A show that takes a look at boxing personalities and establishments who have made questionable decisions, controversial comments, or unpopular stances, and take a deeper look into these matters. My job is not to further villify these individuals, but to challenge conventional wisdom, and reexamine what has been accepted as fact. In this episode I'm counting down the top 5 reasons why you can't blame Muhammad Ali for fighting Larry Holmes. This fight was a real tearjerker for those who grew up watching "The Greatest", and many people thought that this was something that should have never happened. Before I count down the reasons why you can't blame Muhammad, Here's some reflection of the fallout of this event.



























When Ali defeated Leon Spinks, that was the icing on the cake. Ali's career was complete. He could have just retired and just basked in his accomplishments. There wasn't any good reason for him to fight again.

Ali had early stages of Parkinsons. His speech bagan to slur. No way was he gonna even trouble Holmes at that stage of his life. So why try?

On October 2, 1980, the fight took place. Ali failed to win a single round, and suffered his only stoppage loss in his career. Holmes battered the former champion into submission and after the tenth round, trainer Angelo Dundee threw in the towel.

That was the saddest fights I've ever seen. Ali looked helpless, and to see him like that, brought tears to my eyes.

His hands no longer busy, his feet no longer swift.

I saw the punches coming, but I couldn't block them fast enough.

You can definetely blame Ali for it, because there was no way he would win, and if he didn't step into the ring with Holmes, none of this would have happened!


























Before I count down the top 5 reasons why you can't blame Muhammad Ali for fighting Larry Holmes, here's some reasons that didn't make the top five. I call them, "The Best of the Rest".














Best of the Rest

1. Ken Norton - On June 9, 1978, WBC heavyweight champion Ken Norton took on the young Holmes in one of the greatest fights of all time. It was a close and hard fight and it could have went either way. However Norton also had ring-wars with Ali a half a decade earlier.

I wouldn't blame Ali after watching the Norton-Holmes fight. I bet he was saying, "An old Norton almost beat holmes, and I beat a prime Norton, so I can probably beat Holmes." He probably saw himself in place of Norton doing the same things Norton was doing to Holmes.

If Holmes beat Norton convincingly, I don't think Ali would even be thinking about fighting him.














Another Best of the Rest...

2. Larry Holmes - In 1971, amateur Holmes became one of Ali's chief sparring partners. Since then, Holmes started to sneak up on Ali skill-wise and pretty soon, they were fighting wars in sparring. Ali often tormented by the way Holmes troubled him in sparring, thought he had something to prove to Holmes that he still was the superior fighter.

Ali was the teacher and Holmes was the student, and part of the reason he took the fight with Holmes was because he still wanted to establish his dominance that he had eight years ago.

Often Holmes was disrespectful to Ali, bragging that he beat Ali up in sparring, and Ali resented that, and he wanted to prove something to himself and everyone else.

Ali would have loved to beat Holmes and then say after the fight, "Who's your Daddy?" hahahahahaha!!!















Coming up next on The Top Five Reasons You Can't Blame, we'll make references to legendary heavyweights Rocky Marciano, Gene Tunney, and Lennox Lewis.

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Welcome back to "The Top 5 Reasons You Can't Blame Muhammad Ali for Fighting Larry Holmes".

Now we are ready for the countdown, starting with Reason #5.

















5: Thyrolar - Two weeks before the fight, Dr. Charles Williams prescribed Ali with the 100 pills of the drug, Thyrolar after an alleged diagnosis of hypothyroidism. However, days after the fight, tests on Ali were done, and there was no evidence of hypothyroidism in Ali at all. Questions were raised about why Ali was given this drug in the firs place. This had abnormal effects on Ali's performance.

Ali wasn't throwing punches sometimes at all. It's like something kept him from letting his hands go. Holmes would hit him and there was no reaction.

Also during the fight, in the mid rounds, while Holmes was covered with perspiration, Ali did not sweat a drop. This is one of the more common effects of dangerously large amounts of Thyrolar in the bloodstream. Ali was obviously fatigued, and poorly in that fight, and the Thyrolar was more than likely the reason for it.

I believe there may have been some conspiracy by Don King to drug Ali before the fight to guarantee a Holmes victory.






How did that sound. If you are still not satisfied, here is Reason #4.




















4: Fighters Don't Know When To Quit - Muhammad, like many fighters before and after him, do not know when to hang it up. This is caused by the lack of attention that they get when they are inactive. There is nothing like the electricity of fight night, and Ali was desperately craving for that.

Ali's not the only one to go on too long, other fighters took that path, because they just missed the spotlight.

Out of the 70 recorded Heavyweight boxing champions under Marques of Queensbury rules, only four of them retired as heavyweight champion: Gene Tunney in 1928, Rocky Marciano in 1956, Lennox Lewis in 2003, and Vitali Klitchko in 2004. Not Joe Louis, not Jack Dempsey, not George Foreman, and definetely not Muhammad Ali.

Look at Evander Holyfield. He should have retired a long time ago, but here he is now trying to get something that he will never have again!

















Coming up on our countdown of the Top 5 Reasons You Can't Blame Muhammad Ali, we'll discuss how the Brown Bomber relates in Ali's decision to fight Holmes.

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You're watching The Top 5 Reasons You Can't Blame Muhammad Ali for Fighting Larry Holmes

Let's continue the countdown. Reason #3.



















3: Joe Louis - On October 26, 1951, Louis stepped in the ring for the last time against unbeaten Rocky Marciano from Massachusetts. However an old Joe Louis had no chance and was easily knocked out in the eighth round. Beating Holmes was something that Ali decided that he wanted to do in order to distance himself from Louis and for fans to really recognize him as "The Greatest". In other words, he just wanted to add to his legacy, as long as he was in a position to attempt it.

Ali said that he didn't want to go out like Joe Louis did, so this would be the percfect thing to do, but unfortunately that's exactly how he went out, just like Joe Louis.

























How did that grab you? If you are still unsure, then try this one on for size, Reason #2.
























2: The Money - When he fought Holmes in 1980, he was guaranteed 8 million dollars! That was a record amount for the time.

Ali had some bad decision deals, and he needed a big payday to fix his financial problems. To me, that's the only reason why he came back was because of the money.

If I were Ali I would take the fight if I was getting 8 million dollars. I don't care if I knew I was gonna get a good butt kicking, I'd take the butt kicking for 8mil!










Coming up, our Number 1 reason why you can't blame Muhammad Ali for fighting Larry Holmes.

Okay buddy, seriously....I know you love Muhammad and I do too; but is it really necessary to come up with a Top 5 reasons not to blame Ali for fighting Holmes......especially when they pale in comparison to the Top 5 reasons he NEVER should have taken the fight? :confused:


I mean, really.


1. He was already showing signs of PARKINSON'S SYNDRONE.
2. He was taking medication for PARKINSON'S SYNDRONE.
3. He hadn't looked top notch since Frazier in Manilla.
4. Two fights before he had lost to a 7-fight novice!
5. He had just made history winning the World Title Three Times, retired, was nearly 39 years old, and had plenty of money.



Sorry...some arguments shouldn't be made, bud.

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We're counting down The Top 5 Reasons You Can't Blame Muhammad Ali for Fighting Larry Holmes. Before we get to the last reason, here's a look at what we have so far.






Number 5: Thyrolar - The drug affected Ali's performance in the ring



Number 4: Fighters Don't Know When To Quit - Like great fighters before him, Ali missed the attention from Boxing



Number 3: Joe Louis - Ali wanted to get one up on The Brown Bomber by defeating Holmes



and...



Number 2: The Money - Eight million dollars was an offer Ali couldn't refuse



















What I'm about to say is one of the reasons why Ali is considered by many to be the greatest fighter of all-time. But, it is also without a doubt the Number 1 reason why you can't blame him for stepping into the ring with Larry Holmes.
















1: Sonny Liston and George Foreman - On February 25, 1964, Ali, then going by the name of Cassius Clay took on Sonny Liston and was not given any chance to win. However, Ali pulled off possibly the greatest upset in boxing history, and became the champion. Nobody gave him a chance, and he still defied the odds.

Ten years later, on October 30, 1974, Ali took on champion George Foreman. Again, this was a situation that everyone thought Ali had no chance and that he would be defeated rather easily. Nevertheless, Ali, again a huge underdog did the impossible, and knocked out Foreman to become champion again. So in taking the fight with Holmes, he believed that that same magic that worked before, couldn't possibly fail him now.

Ali was actually given a better chance of beating Holmes than he was with Liston or Foreman. People learned their lesson and they couldn't possibly bet against Ali now, not with all that he's accomplished.

However, unlike Liston and Foreman, Holmes was not psyched out by Ali's mind games or fooled into one of Ali's ring tricks. He had a smart game plan, used it and he kept his title.

You can't blame Ali because he was successful against bigger odds with Sonny Liston and George Foreman.

I suppose that Ali got this idea after Liston and after Foreman that when he was backed against a wall that he couldn't lose! Those two guys are what made him great, but they also unfortunately were his downfall.





















That will do it for this edition of "The Top 5 Reasons You Can't Blame". Maybe I've changed your mind. Maybe not. But hopefully, you'll look at this issue in a different light. I'm butterfly1964, thanks for watching.














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In 1981, Muhammad Ali who was 39, fought for the last time against Trevor Berbick in a scheduled ten round fight in the Bahamas.


He lost in a unanimous decision.

















Butterfly Productions Inc.
© 2006

Okay buddy, seriously....I know you love Muhammad and I do too; but is it really necessary to come up with a Top 5 reasons not to blame Ali for fighting Holmes......especially when they pale in comparison to the Top 5 reasons he NEVER should have taken the fight? :confused:


I mean, really.


1. He was already showing signs of PARKINSON'S SYNDRONE.
2. He was taking medication for PARKINSON'S SYNDRONE.
3. He hadn't looked top notch since Frazier in Manilla.
4. Two fights before he had lost to a 7-fight novice!
5. He had just made history winning the World Title Three Times, retired, was nearly 39 years old, and had plenty of money.



Sorry...some arguments shouldn't be made, bud.

The point of this is to help people like you who put the blame on these individuals to look at it from a different perspective. Sure there are reason's why he shouldn't have fought him, but he must have had some reason why he did it, and the point is to look at it from Muhammad's point of view.

C'mon now, rate this thread. :D

In direct response to your list...


#5.....True, Ali wouldn't have lost as badly without the thyrolar....but still would have lost more than likely.

#4.....This is more of a reason to blame Ali for taking the fight; history should have taught him better.

#3.....This one really doesn't make sense in all honesty.

#2.....Once again, a reason to blame Ali for taking the fight; he had made more money already than any fighter who had ever lived; greed over common sense.

#1.....One last time, more of a reason to blame Ali for taking the fight, ego over common sense.

...I rated it bad.

I almost rated it terrible; but decided to pull my punches as Holmes did.

Well done on the effort man

...I rated it bad.

I almost rated it terrible; but decided to pull my punches as Holmes did.

Well, hopefully you'll like the next Top 5 Reasons...

The point of this is to help people like you who put the blame on these individuals to look at it from a different perspective. Sure there are reason's why he shouldn't have fought him, but he must have had some reason why he did it, and the point is to look at it from Muhammad's point of view.

Butterfly, I understand the perspective of which you speak; but when it's all said and done accountability must be reconned with....all men are accountable for their actions; and that list is a list of "excuses".


Fine, you can't blame Ali for wanting to be Ali one mo' time.....that's the same with every fighter. However, it doesn't erase the negatives which were overlooked in his thinking process, which outweigh any reasoning the man did. Ultimately, it was his life and his choice....and I personally don't blame Ali for doing what he wanted. It still doesn't mean it was the right or even the smart thing to do. I don't doubt he has no regrets; but that fight never should have happened...still, just as Tyson-Holmes, Charles-Louis, and Johnson-Jeffries, it had to....and, believe it or not, I do understand that.

NICE i love reading these lil articles u write keep it up! although without all of those problems i reckon ali still was too old and would have lost.

The fight should not have happened. The fight did not make any sense at all and it is a tragedy that it went ahead. It does not affect Ali's legacy but it still seems like a very sad event.

i honestly thought it was the real 1 on espn until i read the title that butterfly wrote it :(

i honestly thought it was the real 1 on espn until i read the title that butterfly wrote it :(

It was so good that you thought it was real, huh? Dang, I'm good!!! :D :D

Maybe Ali shouldn't have fought, but he needed the money and lobbied for the fight. Ali was very good at garnering publicity and he quickly put Holmes in the untenable postion of being in a no win situation. Holmes was condemned for winning the fight and would have been condemned for losing.