WHO'S NUMBER 1?! WHO'S NUMBER 1?! WHO'S NUMBER 1?! WHO'S NUMBER 1?!
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THEN SMILE, 'CAUSE YOU NO LONGER HAVE TO WAIT!
YOU SEE THIS IS NOT A COMMERCIAL, THE SHOW HAS ALREADY BEGUN.
SO WHO'S NUMBER 1?! WHO'S NUMBER 1?! WHO'S NUMBER 1?

Who's Number 1?


"Greatest Upsets"

Good evening, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to "Who's Number 1". I'm your host, butterfly1964. Many fights you watch might have a certain fighter in it, and that fighter almost never loses, even if his opponent is top-notch. So you might not pay much attention to one of his fights against a seemingly unworthy, undersized, underskilled, and overmatched opponent. However, sometimes this fight turns out to be a big surprise. The seemingly invincible becomes now the exposed, and the improbable has happened. There are so many to pick from that they are hard to choose. But don't worry, I did it for you, thank the lord. I have compiled only the best 20 of the greatest upsets of all-time!










20





20




20










20. Liston-Martin: No matter what you thought of Sonny Liston at that time, you couldn't have imagined that he would lose to that guy.

On December 6, 1969, former heavyweight champion Sonny Liston took on his former sparring parter Leotis Martin. Liston, a heavy favorite, was near the end of his comeback trail to regain his title.

Liston had gotten in the shape of his life for that fight and he really wanted to win the fight.

At 37 or possibly 40, this would be his second to last fight.

Liston dominated most of the fight, and decked Martin in the fourth round. But Leo hung in there. Liston was ahead on all scorecards and seemed to be cruising to an easy victory, when Martin landed a crushing right hand in the ninth round to end the fight. Liston's career was basically over. He would fight one more time after this against Chuck Wepner, and then he would die of a drug overdose in Las Vegas a year later.

It was really the only time Liston was knocked out because in the second Ali fight he took a dive.










19





19




19









19. Foreman-Young: On March 17, 1977, Former heavyweight champion George Foreman took on heavy underdog Jimmy Young. Foreman was looking desperately to get an opportunity at Ali, and Young was a stepping stone he had to overcome.

Foreman taking the fight lightly, did not arrive in Puerto Rico until a few days before the fight. This did not allow Foreman to get used to the heat in San Juan.

Young was outboxing Foreman, and as the fight wore-on, Foreman started to tire, just like in the Ali fight.

Foreman could have knocked Jimmy Young out early. He had several chances to. But he wanted to prove a point. He wanted to show everyone that he could go the distance, that he had stamina. But it backfired.

Young floored Forman in the Twelfth and final round, and won the Unanimous decision.

After that fight Foreman was hallucinating, saying that he'd seen God. And then he retired. Many people thought that that was the end of George Foreman.










18





18




18









18. Charles-Walcott III: On July 18, 1951, heavyweight champion Ezzard Charles took on for the third time journeyman Jersey Joe Walcott. Many people thought that his was just a brush-up for a rematch with Joe Louis. They were wrong!

Ezzard Charles was a great fighter. He had beaten Joe Louis. He had beaten Walcott twice, and many people thought that this was going to be no fight at all. And Walcott was considered washed up, and he was written off as a non-entity in boxing.

The first five rounds were close, and then the sixth round came.

Walcott came out and caught Ezz with a sneaky left hook that knocked Charles cold. That was one of the greatest knockout punches in boxing history.

On his fifth title shot, Walcott finally became the champion!










17





17




17









17. Tyson-Williams: On July 30, 2004, Former two-time heavyweight champion and Baddest Man On The Planet "Iron" Mike Tyson took on the giant Danny Williams.

Tyson was washed-up, but nobody thought that he would sink any lower than he did.

I think Tyson sprained his ankle in that fight and that caused he performance to suffer.

Williams, who was about 270-275 lbs., showed the heart of a lion and hit Tyson with more than a score of unanswered punches. Tyson was knocked out in the fourth round.

Ater that fight, I think is when people didn't care to watch him fight anymore.










16





16




16










Saying, "Rocky Marciano couldn't hold my jockstrap!" really did him in that time. I think the boxing gods were sort of mad at Larry Holmes, hahaha!

16. Holmes-M. Spinks I: On September 21, 1985, undefeated heavyweight champion Larry Holmes took on undefeated light heavyweight champion Michael Spinks. Many thought the much smaller spinks, wouldn't stand a chance. But the ageing champion found himself in a tough fight.

Holmes was 48-0, and he was about to go 49-0 to tie and then 50-0 to ecllipse Rocky Marciano's unbeaten and untied record. But it just wasn't his day.

Spinks was a great fighter. Great light heavyweight, good heavyweight, very skilled boxer.

I won that fight. They robbed me. I know that I won that fight. They just didn't want me to break Rocky Marciano's record that's all.

Holmes suffered his first professional loss by a unanimous decision.










Dont flinch, don't move an inch, don't even make a sound!
We'll be back like center field, at the Polo Grounds.

Winners taking it all.
Legends taking the fall.
Quarterbacks taking the ball.
And history, recording it all.
Welcome back, to Who's Number 1.










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15










15. Hagler-Leonard: On April 6, 1987, Middleweight champion Marvin Hagler took on Former welterweight champ Suger Ray Leonard.

No one has had a three year layoff, and then challenge for any kind of title and won.

Hagler hadn't lost for eleven years, and nobody though he would.

I saw Marvin Hagler fight John Mugabi, and Mugabi gave Hagler a tough time. And I figured that hey, "I'm better than John Mugabi", so I knew that this was the perfect time to fight him.

Leonard asked for a ton of things. 10 ounce gloves, 24 x 24 foot ring, twelve rounds, everything that would be in Leonard's favor. And Hagler agreed to everything because the purse was so big.

Leonard used every inch of that ring to stay away from him, and every ounce of boxing savvy to outsmart Hagler and impress the judges, to a majority vote.










14





14





14










Solid right hand by Moorer!

14. Moorer-Foreman: On November 5, 1994, heavyweight champion Michael Moorer took on former champion George Foreman, who by the way was forty-five years of age.

Moorer, who had defeated Evander Holyfield was having his way with Foreman, who had previously dropped a decision to Holyfield. Foreman's plan was to make Moorer comfortable enough to stay in front of Foreman, so foreman could land that one big shot, which in the tenth round he did.

Down goes Moorer, on a right hand! It happened! It happened!

That victory erased the demons that were in Foreman since that fateful day in Kinchasa, Zaire.

To win the title at 45, I mean, it will never be done again.










13





13





13










13. Lewis-Rahman I: On April 22, 2001, two-time heavyweight champion Lennox Lewis from England took on American Hasim Rahman. Lewis took his opponent lightly, and it cost him dearly.

Lennox Lewis was one of the great bigmen of all-time. He could punch, and box at about 250lbs.

Hasim Rahman came from the mean streets of Brooklyn and he had this tremendous heart and he wanted that title and he went out there and got it.

With Lewis ahead on all scorecards, in the fifth, Rahman knocked Lewis out with a hellacoius right hand.










12





12





12










Ali was looking for a nice little retirement fight, and then he would fade into the sunset.

12. Ali-L. Spinks I: On February 15, 1978, two-time heavyweight champion Muhammad Ali was looking for his 20th successful title defense against a former marine and HW Olympic Gold medalist Leon Spinks. Skinks who only had seven professional fights prior to the bout was extremely lightly regarded.

Ali, like Joe Louis thirty-one years before was looking for a fight to retire on, and he was old, and his speech started to slur, and people were concerned for his health.

Muhammad said, "How's a guy with seven fight gonna beat me, you crazy?

Spinks swarmed, crouded, and suffocated Ali's movement, and shocked the mob at The Las Vegas Hilton.

Harold Buck scores it 144-141, the winner and the new heavyweight champion of the world, Leon Spinks!

Before his drug problems, Spinks was a good fighter. He was relentless, and determined, and skilled.

Spinks went on to win by a split 15-round decision. However, this was not the only time Ali was upseted by a former marine...










11





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11











11. Ali-Norton I: Yeah, that's right. On March 31, 1973, Ex-heavyweight champ Muhammad Ali who was destined to get another shot at the title and was on a 10-fight winning streak took on former marine Ken Norton in San Diego. In Norton's previous fight against Charlie Reno, he recieved a purse of only $800. He was thought to be a walk through for the seasoned great Ali.

Norton had an interesting style. He would jab Ali at the same time Ali jabbed him. Norton was tricky because he would rush Ali unexpectedly, dragging his right foot forward.

In the first round, Ali's jaw was broken!

I looked in his mouth and I new his jaw was broken because his gums were bleeding. And I said to Muhammad, "Well, maybe I should stop the fight?" And he said, "You ain't stopping no fight! I could go eleven more rounds with this guy!" So I let it go on, but I could tell he was in tremendous pain!

Ali fought on, but he still couldn't cope with Norton's straight-up boxing style. Ali lasted the full twelve rounds, but it was Norton who won the split decision.

Kenny Norton has just pulled off one of the biggest upsets in boxing history!










When it comes to who's number one, everyone has an opinion.
Some say it's the cat with the best stats,
other's say it's the one who did the most winning.
So we're here to bring all debates to an ending!
So stay tuned. I promise, we'll be back pretty soon.

Who's Number One

Welcome back to this edition of "Who's Number 1". We're counting down the greatest upsets of all time. Here's a recap.

20





Liston-Martin (1969)





19





Foreman-Young (1977)





18





Charles-Walcott III (1951)





17





Tyson-Williams (2004)





16





Holmes-M. Spinks I (1985)





15





Hagler-Leonard (1987)





14





Moorer-Foreman (1994)





13





Lewis-Rahman I (2001)





12





Ali-L. Spinks I (1978)





11





Ali-Norton I (1973)

Let's continue.










10





10





10










Ali bumaye! Ali bumaye! Ali bumaye! Ali bumaye! Ali bumaye!

Many people feared for Ali's life that morning.

10. Foreman-Ali: On October 30, 1974, heavyweight champion George Foreman took on former champ Muhammad Ali in Africa.

Ali had many things to his advantage. He was more used to the weather that Foreman was, because Foreman went back to the U.S. to repair a cut in sparring. Also he had the entire country of Africa cheering for him.

Foreman beat Joe Frazier and Ken Norton both in devastating fashion, both of whom beat Muhammad Ali.

I thought Foreman would reign for the next 20 years. I didn't believe anyone could touch him

Foreman started out fast, but he got tired as Ali used his new-found tactic, the rope-a-dope. He layed on the ropes and Foreman was well spent by the eighth round. Ali then caught Foreman with a sneaky right hand and then came off the ropes and nailed him with quick-hard combinations, that knocked Foreman out.

This was Ali's finest hour. Many people after this fight were beginning to speculate whether he actually was "The Greatest".










9





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9










9. Sullivan-Corbett: On September 7, 1892, undefeated heavyweight champion John L. Sullivan took on heavy underdog "Gentleman" Jim Corbett.

At that time, people though that boxing was solely based on strength, toughness, and chin. There was no "smart" boxing at that time. All of a sudden this guy comes along, Jim Corbett, who was a stylist. Nobody had ever seen anyone like him before. And everyone thought that Sullivan was going to just jump all over him and destroy him, as he did everyone else.

Corbett used his unique style to outbox and outclass Sullivan, and the crowd at the Olympic Club in New Orleans was speechless. Corbett out pointed the sluggish champion all the way, and in the twentieth round scored a knockout.

That was the first gloved fight under Marques Queensbury Rules, and so there were new rules, so there had to be a new champion.










8





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8










8. Robinson-Turpin I: On July 10, 1951 Middleweight Champion Sugar Ray Robinson, who had lost only one fight out of 131, took on Randy Turpin from England.

Turpin was a good boxer. Slick, sharp, and he gave Robinson hell in both fights!

I supposed this was something Sugar Ray just overlooked

Turpin was determined to win and he fought like a champion, doing everything he could to neutralize Robinson's speed and skill. He won over the judges in England and squeezed out a 15 round unanimous decision.

Turpin had to have been a good fighter if he could do something like that.










It's sit back and have a beer time!
Relax in your chair time.
We'll be right back, like your hairline.

You don't have to fight about this anymore!
You don't have to write about this anymore!
We've come to settle the score and end all wars,
in living room and barbershop floors
about, "Who the number one this?", and "Who's the number one that?"!
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back!










7





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I didn't think he could lick Dempsey, because as good as I think Tunney may be, I don't think he could lick Dempsey!

7. Dempsey-Tunney I: On September 23, 1926, heavyweight champion Jack Dempsey took on the leading contender and former lightheavyweight Gene Tunney.

Nobody gave tunney a chance. Dempsey had taken care of Firpo in his last fight in devastating fashion. He was invincible.

On July 2, 1921, Tunney, after beating Soldier Jones in 7 rounds on the Dempsey-Carpantier undercard had noticed in the main event that Carpantier was able to score many right hands to Dempsey's jaw. He saw this as a way to beat Dempsey.

Dempsey wasn't the same. He had had a three year layoff, his speed was gone. His timing, accuracy, and many of the things that made him great, was just not there.

Tunney fought the fight of his life. I've never seen anyone do a number on Dempsey like that.

Tunney outboxed the slow, undertrained and frustrated champion, cutting him up in both eyes, forcing Dempsey to undergo surgury after the fight. Gene won all ten rounds of the fight in a skocking shutout upset.










6





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6










6. Johnson-Willard: On April 5, 1915, heavyweight champion Jack Johnson took on the Pottawatomie giant, Jess Willard. Johnson who was a heavy favorite overlooked the fight.

This was during Johnson's running from the law, and he agreed to fight Willard if he'd be given a passport to come back to the United States.

Johnson, at 37 was well past his prime. But Willard was thought to still ahve been a sitting duck...

And he was for the first 20 rounds, as Johnson pummeled away and made Willard pay for every mistake he made, cutting and bruising the challenger up. In the later rounds, Johnson became weary and started to lose the edge, and he wasn't able to put the slower, clumsier Willard away. Willard started to come on in the final rounds, and in the 26th round, Johnson was knocked out.

Johnson claimed he threw the fight showing the picture of him shielding his face from the sun. Maybe he could have gotten up, but he would have gotten up only to take more punishment.










5





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5










Braddock? Who's he? He's nobody! He's not gonna beat Max Baer! Forget about it!

5. Baer-Braddock: On June 13, 1935, heavyweight champion Max Baer took on 10-1 underdog, James J. Braddock. Max Baer had killed Frankie Cambell five years earlier, and Braddock had a dismal record on the other hand and was not expected to last long.

Baer had taken care of Champion Primo Carnera in devastating fashion. He knocked him down eleven times! He brutalized Max Schmeling, and now this kid from a little town called North Bergen in New Jersey is challenging for the title. No on gave him the chance.

Bradock was smart, slick, a good boxer!

Braddock took the fight to Max early ducking, croutching, blocking and making him miss any way he could. He was able to tie him up, and just out jab and out fight him. But Braddock had a little help.

Braddock's camp had planted a beautiful blonde in the audience to distract Baer. Baer was waving to the blonde the whole fight, he didn't care about the fight. He gave it away carelessly.

Braddock became the symbol of the depression man rising up from poverty and gaining the American dream. From that fight, Jimmy Braddock was known forever as "The Cinderella Man"!










If being "Number One" is your life's dream occupation,
then hopefully you've got a couple of more doses of dedication.
Because the greats will tell you with no hesitation,
that you don't win it in the game, you win in the preparation. Who's Number 1?

Who's Number 1? "Greatest Upsets"








4





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4










4. Tyson-Holyfield I: On November 9, 1996, two-time heavyweight champion and one again the proclaimed "Baddest Man On The Planet" Mike Tyson took on 25-1 underdog Evander Holyfield. Holyfield, who had his license suspended for previous lackluster performances, was considered an easy fight for the champion.

Holyfield was thought of as just a washed up, blown up cruiserweight and Tyson was going to walk in and just walk out in a matter of minutes, but Holyfield was a different kettle of fish.

Tyson came out with six guns blazing, but Holyfield stood up to all the shots Tyson was dishing out.

Tyson came out and nailed him with a hard right hand like the one that ko'd Bruno and won back the title for him. And Holyfield just looked at him and said, "I'm not Michael Spinks!", and he came right back at Mike!

Tyson's attack wore down quickly, and in the later rounds, Holyfield took control. He decked Tyson in the tenth round and scored a tko in the eleventh.

When Holyfield stood up to the bully, he became a part of the American legend!

Well, that's the second time Tyson makes the list but is it the last? Guess again...










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Down goes Tyson, for the first time in his professional career!

3. Tyson-Douglass: Yep, you got it. On February 11, 1990, Undefeated, invincible, indestructable, and undisputed heavyweight champion and "Baddest Man on the Planet" "Iron" Mike Tyson took on 42-1 underdog, James "Buster" Douglass in Tokyo. The fight happened there because no one would pay to see it in the Unites States, because no one thought it would be any fight at all.

Tyson did not train for this fight. He had been in the club scene the day before, he overlooked it.

I knew that the fall of Mike Tyson was gonna happen, bt I didn't think that a guy that had submitted in the past was the guy that was gonna do it.

Tyson's head movement was gone, he just took many shots, hoping he would land one.

Tyson took care of Michael spinks two years earlier in dramatic fashion, and Douglass was no Mike Spinks. However he fought the fight of his life. Motivated by his mother's death, he got into the best shape of his life, and trained like a man on a mission.

However, Tyson did have his big moment in the fight, dropping Douglass with a hellacious right uppercut in the eigth round, that almost got him out of hot water. However, Douglass came back in the ninth.

Look at that, Buster landing some terrific shots! Who would have ever thought?!

All the heart and soul of Tyson went out the window once that man got up off the canvas.

For all intensive purposes, the fight was over. In the tenth, Douglass landed an uppercut of his own, and then three succesive hooks to win the title.

Unbelievable! Unbelievable! Unbelievable! Buster Douglass, the new heavyweight champion of the world!!!










2





2





2










And Schmeling has sent Louis down! Joe Louis is down! He did not wait for the count!...And now for the first time, Joe Louis is getting the real test!

2. Louis-Schmeling I: On June 19, 1936, undefeated and unstoppable number one heavyweight contender Joe Louis, took on 10-1 underdog, number two contender and former champion Max Schmeling from Germany. This was thought to be just a warm-up before he fought James braddock for the title.

Joe Louis destroyed Max Baer, totally annihilated him with no trouble at all. And this was Max Baer, who was a terror in his own right. And Baer, knocked out Schmeling three years before. nobody though this man would even trouble him let alone beat him.

This was a man that everyone thought was ten times better than Jack Dempsey, Jack Johnson, and Jim Jeffires combined! And Schmeling, a decent fighter was nothing spectacular.

Schmeling watched Joe Louis fight Paolino Uzcudun and saw that Louis dropped his left after he jabbed, so he decided to use this as an advantage. He nailed Louis with almost 60 right hands, flooring him in the fourth round. By the eighth round, Louis had to be helped back to his corner.

Schmeling fought the fight of his career! He never looked better.

Louis was not training at all for this fight. It's something he didn't pay much attention to.

Schmeling went on to win by a crushing knockout in the twelfth round.

The first Louis-Schmeling fight was the greatest upset in the history of boxing!

And Louis is down! Hanging through the ropes! Hanging badly! He is a very tired fighter! He is blinking his eyes!... That's it! The fight is over!!!!!!!!!!!!










In sports, the most difficult task that you could ask someone to do,
is to come up with the answer to "Who's Number 2"!
You can ask the kid from Jeopardy and he wouldn't have a clue!
Because most don't care they don't care to know,
which is exactly the reason they came up with the show!
So Who's Number 1?

Butterfly, here's a couple of thoughts.

1. You're mostly focussing on heavyweights, so you're leaving out many, many possibilities....other than that, not a bad list.

2. All of that being said, I'd have to say the Greatest Upset in the history of all boxing would have to be Douglas over Tyson....nothing comes close to that, given the parameters of the time.



.....nice research for the expert quotes, btw.

Why were you banned a while ago Butterfly?

Who's Number 1?: "Greatest Upsets"

Hello, butterfly1964 here and welcome again to this edition of "Who's Number 1?". In this edition we are counting down the twenty greatest upsets of all time. Before we get to number 1, here's the first 19.

20





Liston-Martin (1969)





19





Foreman-Young (1977)





18





Charles-Walcott III (1951)





17





Tyson-Williams (2004)





16





Holmes-M. Spinks I (1985)





15





Hagler-Leonard (1987)





14





Moorer-Foreman (1994)





13





Lewis-Rahman I (2001)





12





Ali-L. Spinks I (1978)





11





Ali-Norton I (1973)





10





Foreman-Ali (1974)





9





Sullivan-Corbett (1892)





8





Robinson-Turpin I (1951)





7





Dempsey-Tunney I (1926)





6





Johnson-Willard (1915)





5





Baer-Braddock (1935)





4





Tyson-Holyfield I (1996)





3





Tyson-Douglass (1990)





2





Louis-Schmeling I (1936)

Any upset is certainly unexpected. But only one you could have never in your wildest dreams have imagined. Here it is, the greatest upset of all-time.









1





1





1................................................. ....










The challenger is jabbing all over, body, head, and... right hand! The best punch of the fight so far!

1. Liston-Clay I: On February 25, 1964, in Convention Hall in Miami Beach, Florida, undisputed heavyweight champion Charles "Sonny" Liston took on 7-1 underdog and notorious big-mouth Cassius Clay.

Liston has been to hell and back, he's been to prison, been arrested over a dozen times, he had the snarl, the intimidation factor was definetely there. George Foreman and Mike Tyson would pale in comparison to Sonny Liston in terms of how feared he was in boxing.

Clay had not looked good in his two previous fights. He had gone through a close decision to fringe contender Doug Jones, and many people believed that Jones won that fight. And then takes on journeyman Henry Cooper, and gets dropped and almost knocked out! And Liston in his last three fights did not even finish the first round. First there was Albert Westfall, better known after the Liston fight as Albert "Mustfall", then the great Floyd Patterson who twice was ko'd in the first round. This was the easiesy money anyone had ever made, supposedly.

Clay didn't make it much better, I mean he was viewed as a joke, something that's only good for a laugh.

Tell your T.V. man, your radio man, and that camera right there. If Sonny Liston whups me, I'll kiss his feet in the ring! I'll crawl down on my knees tell him he's the greatest, and catch the next jet out of the country!

I saw Liston fight Ernie Cabb in Miami Beach and, he was just a tough individual! The toughest guy on the block forget about it! I've seen many fighters who collapsed when they suceeded to him. I saw Liston destroy Cleveland Williams! Destroy him! And Cleveland Willliams is a big guy he's like 6'-6"! And when he flattened him out he covered the whole ring!

I thought that he was going to hold the title for the next ten years, maybe more! Many peopl were saying he was better than Louis or Dempsey!

If you look at let's say Zab Judah today, that's how Clay was looked upon back then.

At the staredown, Clay was bigger then Liston, and he looked bigger than in any other fight he had prior.

Clay outclassed Liston in the first two rounds, then in the third Clay attacked.

Another jarring right hand. Oh, another one, Sonny, wobbled! Sonny wobbled! Cassius has him hurt!

At the end of the fourth, Clay was blinking his eyes in pain because of Marcell, a coagulent used to stop bleeding, which got into Clay's eyes. He was blind for almost the whole 5th round, but Angelo pushed him out into the ring with the instructions to "run". SOnny hit him with everything he had, but Clay was still standing. When his eyes cleared in the sixth, he continued to pile on points.

Liston threw his back out in the first round, and so after that everytime he threw a punch it hurt

You don't give up the heavyweight championship, the most coveted prize in all of sports just because your shoulder hurt!

Liston quite on his stool in the beginning of the seventh, and Clay became the champion. Nobody could have believed it.

They might be stopping it, that might be all ladies and gentlemen! Get up there Joe! Get up there! Get up in the ring!

I am the king of the world! I'm Pretty! I'm a bad man!

I would have rolled around in dirt, and drank muddy water before I would belived that he had any chance of winning that fight.

I shook up the world! I shook up the world! I shook up the world!

This was a big upset in two respects. First, the actual fight. And second, he turned out to be arguably the best heavyweight ever!

I AM THEE GREATEST!!

I think this is the greatest upset in the history of boxing!











Yes, my friends the best of the best in my opinion. But what about the resident second guesser's opinion? Here he is Bobby Peru.













Id put Tyson-Douglas 1st. Douglas was 40-1. No one had ever heard of him before.
At least Clay was a gold medalist wen he fought Liston.

Plus Ali- Foreman should definatly be in the top 5.
Bigger upset than Tyson - Holyfield, as Tyson had fought nobodies and been in prison. Foreman was young and destroyed Frazier, Norton, Chuvalo.

Apart from that, i dont know how big the upsets in some of the older fights were.

Maybe add McClenan- Benn?
Pac- Barerra?






That will do it for this edition of "Who's Number 1". I'll return next week to countdown times, events and athletes that have shaped our world of boxing. Until then, I'm butterfly1964, let the debating begin!





























Special thanks to Bobby Peru.























Butterfly Productions Inc.
© 2006

Why were you banned a while ago Butterfly?

I was posting links to my "top 5 reasons" thread in Non Stop Boxing, and BoxingScene Lounge, and they said I was "spamming".

So guys, what do you think?

Many of the fights on the list were big title fights,with champs fighting contenders with good records.Although every fight listed was an upset if were talking greatest upsets of all time
i dont see how Sugar Ray Leonard and Holyfeild could make the top 20 as they were great fighters at the time.
I would tend to go with journey men beating world class opposition.
Im not sure about being the greatest of all time or even close but 2 that come to mind were.
Ross Puritty's tko win over Wladimir Klitsckho.
Jesse Ferguson's points win over Ray Mercer.

Many of the fights on the list were big title fights,with champs fighting contenders with good records.Although every fight listed was an upset if were talking greatest upsets of all time
i dont see how Sugar Ray Leonard and Holyfeild could make the top 20 as they were great fighters at the time.
I would tend to go with journey men beating world class opposition.
Im not sure about being the greatest of all time or even close but 2 that come to mind were.
Ross Puritty's tko win over Wladimir Klitsckho.
Jesse Ferguson's points win over Ray Mercer.

Well Evander was considered over the hill at that time, had been hospitalized, and was beaten by Michael Moorer. In fact, he was said to have recieved mail from his fans begging him not to take the Tyson fight because they feared for his life. So at that point, Evander was considered to no longer be a great fighter. As for Sugar Ray, he was a welterweight, who had been retired for three years, and then jumped up to take on one of the toughest men in the sport at middleweight that had been king at that weight class. I mean that is like if after the Trinidad fight, that DLH had retired, then came back years later to fight Bernard Hopkins at middleweight after he just dismantled Felix
Trinidad. He would have been a HUGE underdog too.

Anyways, butterly1964, I think it was a very well put together list, I would have shifted some lower, and placed some higher, like I think Tyson-Douglas is without a doubt the greatest upset of all time imo, I mean Douglas was a 42-1 underdog, there is no bigger underdog than that. However, good job there, it was certainly great to read it. Thanks for sharing.

Good effort, Butterfly.

Well Evander was considered over the hill at that time, had been hospitalized, and was beaten by Michael Moorer. In fact, he was said to have recieved mail from his fans begging him not to take the Tyson fight because they feared for his life. So at that point, Evander was considered to no longer be a great fighter. As for Sugar Ray, he was a welterweight, who had been retired for three years, and then jumped up to take on one of the toughest men in the sport at middleweight that had been king at that weight class. I mean that is like if after the Trinidad fight, that DLH had retired, then came back years later to fight Bernard Hopkins at middleweight after he just dismantled Felix
Trinidad. He would have been a HUGE underdog too.

Anyways, butterly1964, I think it was a very well put together list, I would have shifted some lower, and placed some higher, like I think Tyson-Douglas is without a doubt the greatest upset of all time imo, I mean Douglas was a 42-1 underdog, there is no bigger underdog than that. However, good job there, it was certainly great to read it. Thanks for sharing.

Let me say something about those odds. Nobody knows who made the bet or where it was placed or how many people bet on Tyson-Douglass, so for all we know those numbers could have been made up. The same thing goes for Louis-Schmeling. 10-1 for louis-schmeling seems kind of short considering what many people thought of louis and schmeling at the time. Those odds could have been made up. And even if it wasn't, then the obvious reason for it was that many people betted on schmeling not because they thought he would win, but because they wanted him to win, simply because louis was black and this was 1936, so racism was at it's peak at that time. I'm pretty sure that Louis-schmeling, like tyson-douglass, and also like liston-clay was a situation where nobody was picking schmeling, douglass or clay to make it out of one round. This also might explain something about the liston-clay odds, 7-1. Clay was a likable figure in boxing with a squeaky-clean image, while liston was a thug and a mug and was a bad role model to represent boxing, so the reason why the odds may have been only 7-1 was because people wanted clay to win, but deep in their haert, they thought he really had no chance. So to reiterate what I said in the beginning of the paragraph, the betting odds mean nothing in order to determine what was a greater upset.

IMO tyson-douglass doesn't make #1 because we have already by that time seen "tyson's" in the past(foreman, liston, frazier, baer), so this was not something new. However, Louis was something new at that time, no one had ever seen anything like him, so the possibility of him being beaten was next to nothing. Also Liston makes the top of my list because Liston was more intimidating than tyson or louis was, since he had a long rap sheet, and ties to the mob, where he had been a hitman, and tyson was just a kid from the streets like everyone else, and louis didn't really work on the intimidation facter too much.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to butterfly1964 again.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to butterfly1964 again.

I appreciate it that you thought about it though.

What did his reputation and mob ties have to do with how good of a fighter he actually was when he fought Ali?

Liston was old, worn, and not even half the fighter he once was on that night in 1964. I do consider it one of the ten most famous upsets in boxing history, but I disagree with it's ranking as number 1. Braddock beating Baer and Douglas beating Tyson were both bigger upsets IMO. By "bigger" upset, I mean the statistic improbability of the result of the fight.

The Ali-Liston fight was seen as a big upset because no one realized how far Liston's quickness had deteriorated and just how good and durable and capable of imposing his will on a stronger man the young Clay was. In hindsight, it isn't a big upset at all. They could fight ten times and I'd pick a young Ali over an old Liston on each occassion. Baer-Braddock and Douglas-Tyson on the other hand were such stunning upsets that in a rematch I would not favor either victor. Even in hindsight (okay, maybe in Tyson's case you could say he had lost focus on training and his skills suffered somewhat) Tyson should have still beaten Douglas and Baer should have creamed Braddock.

Now those are serious upsets: dominating champions in their prime losing to underdogs who, even in retrospect, should not have had a chance.

I think a couple of British guys always deserve a mention in this debate, Lloyd Honeyghan vs Donald Durry, and Kirkland Laing vs Roberto Duran. Tyson vs Douglas is always the first one that springs to mind when thinking about an upset.

What did his reputation and mob ties have to do with how good of a fighter he actually was when he fought Ali?

Liston was old, worn, and not even half the fighter he once was on that night in 1964. I do consider it one of the ten most famous upsets in boxing history, but I disagree with it's ranking as number 1. Braddock beating Baer and Douglas beating Tyson were both bigger upsets IMO. By "bigger" upset, I mean the statistic improbability of the result of the fight.

The Ali-Liston fight was seen as a big upset because no one realized how far Liston's quickness had deteriorated and just how good and durable and capable of imposing his will on a stronger man the young Clay was. In hindsight, it isn't a big upset at all. They could fight ten times and I'd pick a young Ali over an old Liston on each occassion. Baer-Braddock and Douglas-Tyson on the other hand were such stunning upsets that in a rematch I would not favor either victor. Even in hindsight (okay, maybe in Tyson's case you could say he had lost focus on training and his skills suffered somewhat) Tyson should have still beaten Douglas and Baer should have creamed Braddock.

Now those are serious upsets: dominating champions in their prime losing to underdogs who, even in retrospect, should not have had a chance.

But "hindsight" is not what counts, it's what was thought at the time, so in that cse clay-liston beats all.

cant believe u only got tyson-douglas at 3

Ali Liston 1 was your #1 i dont quite agree, plus you only did heavies only a non heavyweight fight in your list, good list otherwise

cant believe u only got tyson-douglas at 3

Yep, it should be #2 on that list, in my opinion, going only on the fights Butterfly listed.

Yep, it should be #2 on that list, in my opinion, going only on the fights Butterfly listed.


what do u think is number1. and going by fan reaction also

what do u think is number1. and going by fan reaction also

From Butterfly's list, Leon Spinks' win over Ali, for me.

Like everybody else, I was friggin shocked to **** that Buster defeated Tyson, but my own reaction to Spinks' win was I was quite a bit more shocked at that outcome in comparision.

From Butterfly's list, Leon Spinks' win over Ali, for me.

Like everybody else, I was friggin shocked to **** that Buster defeated Tyson, but my own reaction to Spinks' win was I was quite a bit more shocked at that outcome in comparision.


but ali was well outta his prime though.tyson still in his though

but ali was well outta his prime though.tyson still in his though

Yeah, Ali was faded quite a bit at that point in time, but you got to understand that to a then twelve year-old kid he was still, you know...Ali. And I was absolutely SHOCKED that he lost to Spinks, especially after my father, grandfather (both huge boxing fans), the newspapers, boxing magazines, basically everybody said that a novice like Spinks stood no friggin chance in hell of winning that fight and was only a gimme title defense for Ali.

Yeah, Ali was faded quite a bit at that point in time, but you got to understand that to a then twelve year-old kid he was still, you know...Ali. And I was absolutely SHOCKED that he lost to Spinks, especially after my father, grandfather (both huge boxing fans), the newspapers, boxing magazines, basically everybody said that a novice like Spinks stood no friggin chance in hell of winning that fight and was only a gimme title defense for Ali.


yeah i forgot age can have alot of affect on outcomes in the future