I don't get it, everyone says he is, but ever since he died, hip hop just started to get worse and worse.

He definately had the biggest impact on rap with the mainstream, but he didn't really do too much for the game. That is just my opinion.

You said it right there-mainstream.

I think a lot of people, mostly surburbanies, like his image. **** the world mentality with some above average lyrics and it's a recipe for being a cult figure.

To me there is really not much behind this image.

For people that know he's has no room to speak about government and social failures since he's a jailbird himself, he doesn't do too much.

I can name some better rappers today with more skill. His "Hit em" up diss track was mediocre and unimaginitive. I'd expect the "I ****ed yo girlfriend/wife" stuff from middle schoolers/high school students not a rapper that's supposedly good with words.
I don't get it, everyone says he is, but ever since he died, hip hop just started to get worse and worse.

He definately had the biggest impact on rap with the mainstream, but he didn't really do too much for the game. That is just my opinion.

I mean, he did a lot and released some nice music, but he didn't really bring anything to the table for other emcees to carry on with. He just had lots of charisma...

When you say influential, the word encompasses more than influence in rap. Before 2Pac, not a lot of rappers were into movies. Pac made it cool to make movies. Think about people like Eminem(8 Mile,) 50 cent; Get rich or die trying, Ja Rule; Turn it up, The fast and the furious, and others; DMX; Never die alone, Cradle to the Grave, and others. All these rappers have listed 2pac as one of their main influences, actually, with the exception of DMX, so it's most likely that it was 2pac's willingness to make movies, and his strong performance in Juice that inspired them to themselves make movies.

Besides his influence with movies, Pac's lyrics influenced a lot of people because of the heartfelt, social and sincere messages in them. Think of the impact that a song like Brenda's got a baby had for young black women in the ghetto, or a powerful song like Holler if you hear me had for people fed up with the state of things in the goverment. His strong delivery and emotion grabbed many people and made them think better of themselves, or just lit the fuse of a disgruntled teen. 2pacs style was one to speak about his life and his feelings. A certain rapper by the name of Eminem also speaks about his life and feelings strongly. Eminem lists 2pac as his biggest influence. That personal style of rap was taken to it's apex by 2pac, and then adopted by rappers of today.

2pac was a great influence and inspiration to many. No other rapper could grab people by his emotion like 2pac could. I myself have been moved hearing songs like White man's world, and Hold ya head. I dismiss this notion of him only being an above average lyricist. It's mostly people that view great lyricism as rhyming a bunch of big words while saying nothing at all that feel that way.

He was number 2 or 3 on some big sites 100 most influential blacks list.

I used to listen to 2pac religiously. No other rappers. It was 2pac and only 2pac. *this is going to take a little away from inside of me* I think hsi flow was really good and his vocabulary was also the best. Alot better than the rap of today. Some dumb ****s going up there and repeating there name 300 times in one ****ing song. Honestly, how did he even get signed to a label? Go into some office and say Who? Mike Jones! and some **** said "Brilliant, give him 30 million and take him to a recording studio while he still remembers his own name" ?

He was an influential person. Before him, rap was mostly a "black" thing. I think by getting mainstream, he helped connect blacks and whites. Most of his songs are lyrically inspiring too. About everyone not killing eachother, nobody raping eachother, and everyone getting together. Kind of like the rap version of Barney.

Pac was like raps version of a Malcom X. His verse in Baby don't cry is one of the most poetic and inspiring I've heard.

"Now here's a story bout a woman with dreams
So picture perfect at thirteen, an ebony queen
Beneath the surface it was more than just a crooked smile
Nobody knew about her secret so it took a while
I could see a tear fall slow down her black cheek
Sheddin quiet tears in the back seat; so when she asked me,
"What would you do if it was you?"
Couldn't answer such a horrible pain to live through
I tried to trade places in the tragedy
I couldn't picture three crazed *****z grabbin me
For just a moment I was trapped in the pain, Lord come and take me
Four *****z violated, they chased and they raped me
Even though it wasn't me, I could feel the grief
Thinkin with your brains blown that would make the pain go
No! You got to find a way to survive
cause they win when your soul dies"

2Pac is like Elvis to hip-hop. He was a charismatic, talented bad boy figure in his musical genre. And even after death, his legend grows - people even think they're both alive...

Pac helped make gangsta rap mainstream. There was a murder where the defendant tried to blame his 2Pacalypse now tape on what made him commit the crime. This made mainstream news. Boyz N The Hood came out to good reviews and crossover appeal, and the next year Pac came out in Juice. His character became what would be his on-record persona, and his next album had two standout singles that were very much at odds with each other - the "women are playthings" single I Get Around, and the "women should be respected" Keep Ya Head Up. The contradiction would ultimately prove appealing to album buyers.

Pac would do his "Black power" songs and follow it up with tales of ghetto woe and social problems, then do a player song. No one was screaming "Thug Life" prior to Pac - the whole Thug as a sympathetic character/hero originated in his songs. He was outspoken on social issues, speaking at functions such as the Indianapolis Black Expo. His poetry would eventually be released in a book volume and CD.

He was a victim of police brutality who won a cash judgment from the cops. He was arrested for sex assault. He was shot multiple times. Through his visiblility to mainstream america (his trial was covered on CNN and other news channels)

Me Against The World opened at #1 while Pac was locked up and unable to film a first video or do promo work. He was on the cover of Vibe and The Source. The Me Against the World disc had the song "Dear Mama" which continued to show another side of Pac - and as he started to reveal his personal inner-most thoughts instead of third-person songs like "Brenda Got a Baby" from his first disc - people started to follow his life in the news, and in his records.

He got good reviews for perfomances in movies like Poetic Justice, Gang Related, and Gridlock'd - not playing a drug dealer, not playing a gang member...

When All Eyez on Me came out, though it deserved an * for being a double-disc, I believe at the time, only MC Hammer's Please Hammer Don't Hurt 'Em and Vanilla Ice's To the Extreme had moved more units. His release from prison and his signing with Death Row Records made him even more visible - and produced his most casual-fan friendly album to date. 2Pac was a celebrity - a complicated, intelligent figure who was hard to completely embrace but just as hard to completely hate. Eminem's recent popularity and mainstream coverage is similar - when you listened to his album, you were listening to an autobiography, listening to his inner-most thoughts no matter what mood he was in, and listening to potentially outrageous material.

Gangsta rap came under fire and he took on C. Delores Tucker in a song. He had a public feud. And the way he took emotion to a song - whether it be to initiate a party attitude, sadness, anger - has been untouched since.

After he died, copycats showed up all over. No Limit Records was like the wannabe poor cousin of anything Pac ever recorded. Everyone talked about being thugs - copycat songs came out all over. I don't remember a dead homey song prior to "Pour Out a Little Liquor" - the idea of being a "soft" gangsta able to share feelings that didn't come off as macho - wasn't prevalent til Pac did it.

Fabolous came out in his first single with Nate Dogg spinning off a Pac song. Little Jon's first major hit was him rapping over Hit 'em Up. Jay-Z damn near remade a Makaveli song.

Pac has had posthumous albums go platinum and one of the top ten grossing documentaries of all time.

These are a few ways Tupac was the most influential...

You said it right there-mainstream.

I think a lot of people, mostly surburbanies, like his image. **** the world mentality with some above average lyrics and it's a recipe for being a cult figure.

To me there is really not much behind this image.

For people that know he's has no room to speak about government and social failures since he's a jailbird himself, he doesn't do too much.

I can name some better rappers today with more skill. His "Hit em" up diss track was mediocre and unimaginitive. I'd expect the "I ****ed yo girlfriend/wife" stuff from middle schoolers/high school students not a rapper that's supposedly good with words.

The reason why he said that's why I ****ed yo' ***** was cuz he actually did, I'm sure you all know his wife, Faith Evans, Tupac slep wit er supposedly.

As far as battling goes, that was a good line, and hit em up was a good verse. I actually batttle, have been doing it online in text, online in audio, and offline in freestyles for about 6 years so I think that I know more about battling that most of you do. The line about Biggies wife was a good battle line because it showed a contradiction in the image that Biggie portrays. It's just like Jay-z attacking Nas about his hood credibility. It's a good tactical move. Also, I don't think that being "unimaginative" in a battle is necessarily a bad thing. Heck, the more direct that you are, the better. No need to beat around the bush.

i would say people like run dmc, afrika bambaataa, krs one, grandmaster flash, big daddy kane have been more important to hip hop.

but still tupac is the king.

You said it right there-mainstream.

I think a lot of people, mostly surburbanies, like his image. **** the world mentality with some above average lyrics and it's a recipe for being a cult figure.

To me there is really not much behind this image.

For people that know he's has no room to speak about government and social failures since he's a jailbird himself, he doesn't do too much.



thats some of the most ignant **** iv ever heard.

Couldnt have said it better than Neils and the other guys. For those reasons he is.

That first paragraph is crap. Cut it and throw it away.

Will Smith was rapping and acting while Tupac was doing the running man as a back up dancer to Digital Underground.

Shielded suburbanites of American unite! Your hero Tupac hated you!

Get your facts right. Stop talking out your ass and stalking me.

PS: More of your nonsense... I didn't know being in movies makes you a great rapper :rolleyes: . Bow Wow must be climbing your list of greatest MCs fast.

Also, I could have sworn that Nas's lyrics weren't filled with those "big words". Lol, you're a joke. Big words don't mean great lyrics. No one ever implied that genius.
When you say influential, the word encompasses more than influence in rap. Before 2Pac, not a lot of rappers were into movies. Pac made it cool to make movies. Think about people like Eminem(8 Mile,) 50 cent; Get rich or die trying, Ja Rule; Turn it up, The fast and the furious, and others; DMX; Never die alone, Cradle to the Grave, and others. All these rappers have listed 2pac as one of their main influences, actually, with the exception of DMX, so it's most likely that it was 2pac's willingness to make movies, and his strong performance in Juice that inspired them to themselves make movies.

Besides his influence with movies, Pac's lyrics influenced a lot of people because of the heartfelt, social and sincere messages in them. Think of the impact that a song like Brenda's got a baby had for young black women in the ghetto, or a powerful song like Holler if you hear me had for people fed up with the state of things in the goverment. His strong delivery and emotion grabbed many people and made them think better of themselves, or just lit the fuse of a disgruntled teen. 2pacs style was one to speak about his life and his feelings. A certain rapper by the name of Eminem also speaks about his life and feelings strongly. Eminem lists 2pac as his biggest influence. That personal style of rap was taken to it's apex by 2pac, and then adopted by rappers of today.

2pac was a great influence and inspiration to many. No other rapper could grab people by his emotion like 2pac could. I myself have been moved hearing songs like White man's world, and Hold ya head. I dismiss this notion of him only being an above average lyricist. It's mostly people that view great lyricism as rhyming a bunch of big words while saying nothing at all that feel that way.

OK, OK....

Neils and Steelfist are actually right...
I just meant, he didn't really do anything to bring the hip hop game to another level, he did lots for people on the streets though.

Stupid thread.

after him and b.i.g died so did hip hop.

after him and b.i.g died so did hip hop.
If he was influential, that wouldn't have happened.

That first paragraph is crap. Cut it and throw it away.

Will Smith was rapping and acting while Tupac was doing the running man as a back up dancer to Digital Underground.

Shielded suburbanites of American unite! Your hero Tupac hated you!

Get your facts right. Stop talking out your ass and stalking me.

PS: More of your nonsense... I didn't know being in movies makes you a great rapper :rolleyes: . Bow Wow must be climbing your list of greatest MCs fast.

Also, I could have sworn that Nas's lyrics weren't filled with those "big words". Lol, you're a joke. Big words don't mean great lyrics. No one ever implied that genius.

lol at you calling me joke. Take a look at the other posts that other members on here made; I;m not the only one that thinks that you're wrong. And lol at you calling someone out for assumptions with comments like, "Shielded suburbanites of American unite!" How stupid are you? For one, I'm definetly not from the suburbs, and for another, a lot of Tupac's most adamant fans are kids from broken down enviorments that were influenced to think better of themselves because of some of his music.

As far as the Will Smith comment, another member already pointed it out: While other rappers made movies prior to Pac, Pac had a lot more influence in rappers wanting to make movies due to his strong showing in Juice. Bringing up his influence in movie is relevant here because the thread poster asked why he was the most influential rapper; not specifically why his raps are the most influential. Get your head out of your ass, idiot.

Me pointing out the big words thing is due to the fact that many people that seem to think that Tupac's lyrics were mediocre are the same people that believe that a one dimensional dictionary like Canibus is the greatest emcee ever. You lost. Give it up buddy.

If he was influential, that wouldn't have happened.


Not necessarily. Look at all the people Pac influenced: Eminem, Ja Rule, 50 cent. DMX(whether he wants to admit it or not) Those people have made some of the better impacts in rap. This commercial, plastic rap phase is not Tupacs fault at all.

Like I said before, are you even thinking before you're posting or just posting?

Are you saying Tupac's acting surpasses Will Smith's? You sure are implying that. Dig yourself out of that hole.

Stop *****ing and think before you post.



Me pointing out the big words thing is due to the fact that many people that seem to think that Tupac's lyrics were mediocre are the same people that believe that a one dimensional dictionary like Canibus is the greatest emcee ever. You lost. Give it up buddy.

Laugh my ass off. Who are you hanging around with? Kindergartners?

Canibus a dictionary? You smokin' that good stuff?

LOL. I sure didn't lose. You got pissed at my statement, trolled me and gave me bad karma. Who's taken my **** to heart but you? You're a cry baby. Grow up. Tupac is dead.

Like I said before, are you even thinking before you're posting or just posting?

Are you saying Tupac's acting surpasses Will Smith's? You sure are implying that. Dig yourself out of that hole.

Stop *****ing and think before you post.



Laugh my ass off. Who are you hanging around with? Kindergartners?

Canibus a dictionary? You smokin' that good stuff?

LOL. I sure didn't lose. You got pissed at my statement, trolled me and gave me bad karma. Who's taken my **** to heart but you? You're a cry baby. Grow up. Tupac is dead.
Damn bro, you're pullin a page from Bozo's book.

Like I said before, are you even thinking before you're posting or just posting?

Are you saying Tupac's acting surpasses Will Smith's? You sure are implying that. Dig yourself out of that hole.

Stop *****ing and think before you post.



Laugh my ass off. Who are you hanging around with? Kindergartners?

Canibus a dictionary? You smokin' that good stuff?

LOL. I sure didn't lose. You got pissed at my statement, trolled me and gave me bad karma. Who's taken my **** to heart but you? You're a cry baby. Grow up. Tupac is dead.


ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooh

lol @ Smokin'. Kid's a clown. The effects of crack, people.

You're an idiot.

TKO Round 1.

***** doesn't even respond to my post. Run away little f.ag... RUN.

lol @ Smokin'. Kid's a clown. The effects of crack, people.

ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooh. :eek:

lol @ Smokin'. Kid's a clown. The effects of crack, people.
Damn what the **** did I say...

Why respond to your post when there's absolutely no sense in it? It's just a waste of my time. You're a duffos.

And, Smoking, lol as in laughing out loud at your comment, not laughing at you directly.

after him and b.i.g died so did hip hop.


You are not familiar with hip hop, if you think it died when 2pac and a talented MC with 1 album released during his life, died.

That first paragraph is crap. Cut it and throw it away.

Will Smith was rapping and acting while Tupac was doing the running man as a back up dancer to Digital Underground.

Shielded suburbanites of American unite! Your hero Tupac hated you!

Get your facts right. Stop talking out your ass and stalking me.

PS: More of your nonsense... I didn't know being in movies makes you a great rapper :rolleyes: . Bow Wow must be climbing your list of greatest MCs fast.

Also, I could have sworn that Nas's lyrics weren't filled with those "big words". Lol, you're a joke. Big words don't mean great lyrics. No one ever implied that genius.
The way Will Smith rapped and the content he covered didn't evolve/devolve (depending on your point of view) the state of hip-hop. Nor did Smith do any hip-hop movies. Will Smith made it a point to distance himself from where the genre was going. Will would actually be one more influential though because of his longevity and his mainstream crossover via his sitcom The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air

I don't get it, everyone says he is, but ever since he died, hip hop just started to get worse and worse.

He definately had the biggest impact on rap with the mainstream, but he didn't really do too much for the game. That is just my opinion.
Re-reading the original post, it might depend on how someone interprets "the game"

I remember a time when rap songs were not played on Top 40 radio, didn't often go platinum, weren't recognized at the Grammy's, weren't mixed in the regular MTV rotation, weren't up for Oscars for best song.

People like 2pac especially, Will Smith, MC Hammer, Vanilla Ice, Eminem, Lauryn Hill would have to be nominees in that respect.

Hip-hop is no longer a niche genre with cult fans. I remember a Snoop (then Doggy) Dogg interview, where he said he hoped ultimately rap music would gain the same credibility that country music possessed. That has happened and because it has happened, that's how I chose to interpret who I felt was the most influential.

Looking at it from a different perspective, Pac still deserves mention because of how he shaped how people rapped and what they rapped about. Even Biggie did a little style biting of Pac, at least according to Shakur...

And Gridlock'd was a hip hop movie?

The way Will Smith rapped and the content he covered didn't evolve/devolve (depending on your point of view) the state of hip-hop. Nor did Smith do any hip-hop movies. Will Smith made it a point to distance himself from where the genre was going. Will would actually be one more influential though because of his longevity and his mainstream crossover via his sitcom The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air

And Gridlock'd was a hip hop movie?
No, it wasn't a hip-hop movie. You know that. It was also released after his death... The fact that he was cast in it actually demonstrates how members of the industry were able to venture outside the stereotypes.

But Pac's first on-screen role was with Digital Underground in Nothing But Trouble, and Above the Rim and Juice are definitely hip-hop films.

If it hadn't been for BNTH and Juice's reception with critics and audiences, films like Shakur's Poetic Justice or South Central or Menace II Society might never have been greenlighted.

Another pair I left off consideration was Kid 'n Play. They had a 1-900 number advertised on daytime TV, the House Party series, Class Act, and an animated series on Saturday morning NBC...