View Full Version : Best British Fighter Ever......


LuKahnLi
10-06-2004, 02:40 PM
I know many of you guys are from across the pond. So I am mainly asking you guys.....who do you feel is the greatest, most accomplished British Fighter in history?

elveiel
10-06-2004, 03:00 PM
I know many of you guys are from across the pond. So I am mainly asking you guys.....who do you feel is the greatest, most accomplished British Fighter in history?

Its very hard to say, i probably pick Lewis because he could have beaten any heavyweight that ever lived, i'm not saying he was the best ever Heavy but it would be very hard for anyone to beat him.

AJ53
10-06-2004, 06:34 PM
for pure potential i've have to say naz, because altough he was hated for his ego he cleaned out the division in a way no other british fighter has done.
i know he turned out to be a bit of a let down but if he stayed around he'd still be well in the mix with any other fighter in his weight.

grayfist
10-06-2004, 06:46 PM
for pure potential i've have to say naz, because altough he was hated for his ego he cleaned out the division in a way no other british fighter has done.
i know he turned out to be a bit of a let down but if he stayed around he'd still be well in the mix with any other fighter in his weight."...he cleaned out the division..." can not be anything but a JOKE, of course. Right? I'm rolling on the aisle!!!

grayfist
10-06-2004, 06:49 PM
Its very hard to say, i probably pick Lewis because he could have beaten any heavyweight that ever lived, i'm not saying he was the best ever Heavy but it would be very hard for anyone to beat him.Lewis is a Canadian appropriated by Merry Ole England in Her Majesty's service... ;)

AJ53
10-06-2004, 07:04 PM
didn't he beat the wbo, ibf and wbc champions at featherweight when barrera and morales were still at superbantam.
i think he did
where there any other fighters at that time who could claim to rule the division.
no
division cleaned, point proved.

elveiel
10-06-2004, 07:06 PM
Lewis is a Canadian appropriated by Merry Ole England in Her Majesty's service... ;)

I suppose Wilson Kipketer is Danish and Kostya Tszyu is Australian!! :p

Lennox was born in the UK(London) and it doesnt matter who he fought for in the olympics.

grayfist
10-06-2004, 08:54 PM
for pure potential i've have to say naz, because altough he was hated for his ego he cleaned out the division in a way no other british fighter has done.
i know he turned out to be a bit of a let down but if he stayed around he'd still be well in the mix with any other fighter in his weight.My understanding of "clean out" is really clean out.

When Hamed won his first belt (WBO) by wresting it from Steve Robinson (then 21-9-1) in September 1995, the WBA Champ was Eloy Rojas, who had started his reign in 1993. When Hamed took the IBF belt from Tom Johnson in Feb. 1997, Wilfredo Vasquez had by then taken the WBA crown from Rojas. The following year, Vasquez was TKO'd by Hamed (Vasquez kissed the canvass once each in the third and sixth and twice in the 7th). Only the WBO crown was at stake. Vasquez was born on August 2, 1960, which made him just over two months short of his 38th birthday when he met Hamed on May 18,1998.

Freddie Norwood and Antonio Cermeno fought for the WBA crown left vacant. Norwood held the title from April 1998 to Sept of the same year. Norwood departed for other hunting grounds, so Cermeno was made to face Oscar Leon. Cermeno won and ruled from Oct 1998 to Feb 1999 when he relinquished the belt to Norwood in a return match. Norwood ruled WBA feather until May of 2000. Derrick Gainer took the belt from him. Gainer was WBA feather king until 2003.

Except for the ageing Vasquez, I don't see any of those names in Hamed's resume'.Of course the resume' contains the name Barrera. And most of us know the type of entry that is. But there's no Morales who, before Hamed met Barrera, had moved up to featherweight. Very odd.

I wonder then whether, if one does not omit these names, what Hamed did could still be called a clean out. I likewise wonder why these names have to be omitted in any reckoning of what constitutes a clean out. What does it prove?

grayfist
10-06-2004, 09:04 PM
I suppose Wilson Kipketer is Danish and Kostya Tszyu is Australian!! :p

Lennox was born in the UK(London) and it doesnt matter who he fought for in the olympics. Citizenship matters. Unless, perhaps, one is a SUBJECT. If Lewis is a SUBJECT then I guess it won't matter. :confused:

Just a trivial matter that goes along your line of thinking:

Henry Kissinger and Madelein Albright, both born in Germany, are Germans: two foreigners who held the post of U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE! cORRECT?

Tzyu IS Australian. Born in Serov, Russia on Sept.19, 1969, The "THUNDER FROM DOWN UNDER" is listed in record books as AUSTRALIAN, including Boxrec.com! And so would records in Canberra show.

The only Danish I care about are ones that come out of the oven: bread and pastries. :(

Lewis represented Canada in the Olympics; I think it is safe to assume that he carried a Canadian passport.

grayfist
10-07-2004, 11:34 AM
I'm not arguing that he's the best fighter, but I do believe that the "Clones Cyclone", Barry McGuigan should be in a very short list of the best ever to come out of England (though he's Irish). McGuigan dethroned the great Eusebio Pedroza, who had racked up 19 consecutive successful defenses of the WBA belt, a record for featherweights that still stands today. Pedroza came the CLOSEST to having cleaned out the division! But he couldn't MAKE THAT CLAIM because he didn't get to unify the two alphabet titles then available; it was the WBA version that he defended all throughout and never got to annex the WBC version.

McGuigan lost his title to Steve Cruz in June 23, 1986 (UD15), in a fight that was hailed by Ring Magazine as FIGHT OF THE YEAR! The Irish is reported as NEVER HAVING KISSED THE CANVASS in any of his fights and retired with only 3 losses (Record:32-3). He left a trail of 28 KO's!

His last fight was a loss--a TKO (ref stopped the bout on CUTS)--to Jim McDonnel. ;)

LuKahnLi
10-07-2004, 01:03 PM
didn't he beat the wbo, ibf and wbc champions at featherweight when barrera and morales were still at superbantam.
i think he did
where there any other fighters at that time who could claim to rule the division.
no
division cleaned, point proved.


He didn't fight Alejandro Gonzalez or Luisito Espinosa. At the time, it was THEY who were the best in the division. Naz pretty much waited until they either moved up or faded. Naz didn't CLEAN OUT ****.

LuKahnLi
10-07-2004, 01:04 PM
Those of you who say Lennox Lewis.....I might be inclined to agree.

Is Bob Fitzsimmons considered English? I thought he was.....but I also know he was born in New Zealand.

AJ53
10-07-2004, 01:33 PM
yes that is true but if governing bodies had not stripped hamed of the various belts wbc,ibf and the wba had not stripped vasquez he would have been the unified champ.
there would then be no need to have the names norwood, cermeno or gainer because they fought for a belt vacated by the wba and did not beat the reigning champion in the ring.
i still believe that no other british fighter has won a world title and then went on to beat the 3 other organisations reigning champions stripped of there belts or not.
added together with the fact that he was one of the hardest punching feathers in history he would be my greatest british fighter ever.

grayfist
10-07-2004, 02:10 PM
yes that is true but if governing bodies had not stripped hamed of the various belts wbc,ibf and the wba had not stripped vasquez he would have been the unified champ.
there would then be no need to have the names norwood, cermeno or gainer because they fought for a belt vacated by the wba and did not beat the reigning champion in the ring.
i still believe that no other british fighter has won a world title and then went on to beat the 3 other organisations reigning champions stripped of there belts or not.
added together with the fact that he was one of the hardest punching feathers in history he would be my greatest british fighter ever.Clean up to me is when you fight everyone there is to fight, regardless of belt--be they alphabet or RING MAG. Hamed would have to have at least 20 defenses given that there were four alphabet titles he'd have to get involved with. (IBF, WBC, WBA, WBO) He'd have to defeat each of the top five contenders of each organization plus all the champions. In as much as some organizations have similar contenders in their top ten, twenty title defenses would do. That would have been a clean up. The current champ who comes close to a clean up is only Hopkins; if he goes through Strum, Tito, Eastman, etc. before he's done that's a clean up. Had Hamed done a clean up he would have the record for most title defenses in the featherweight division's history. Not Pedroza. A clean up is a thorough cleaning.

Addendum: I acknowledge the point raised by LukanLi re Cobrita and Espinosa. :)

If one thinks that Hamed's the best Britain ever had, I won't argue. Different folks, different strokes. But I take issue with the statement that Hamed CLEANED OUT the division during his time. He wasn't even close! :(

cple
10-07-2004, 02:36 PM
Bob Fitzsimmons was born in Helston, England. He's easily the greatest english fighter of all-time.

LuKahnLi
10-07-2004, 03:38 PM
cple

I thought he was born in Timaru New Zealand......or did he just live there?

LuKahnLi
10-07-2004, 03:40 PM
Thank god for ibhof.com. cple, I stand corrected Bob Fitzsimmons was English born. SO I guess the INGRISH can claim him.

I would have to agree that he IS the best English fighter of all time.

J !
10-11-2004, 09:43 AM
ahem ted kid lewis ahem.

224 wins, 38 losses - 20 draws

ex british and european featherweight champ
5 time world welterweight champ. (thats right five times he regained the crown)

European and Brtish middleweight champ.

challenged for the middle and light heavyweight world titles (lost to legend George Carpentier who ko'd him in the first Lewis started at featherweight guys!!!!!)


NO ONE ELSE COMES CLOSE.


followed by fitzsimmons followed by Lennox. A certain randolph turpin werent bad neither beating Sugar Ray to win the world middlweight title guys! Dont just look at modern fighters open your eyes to past greats who actually acheived more cos they were more active. To equate Turpins victory that would be like a prime Calzage beatinga prime Roy jones can you see that happening, not on your nellie!

And before you start Im not some old grandad Im only 31!

article on the top ten heavies post war as voted for by the writing team at the BBN and contributed accordingly.

http://www.britishboxing.net/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=1091016031&archive=&start_from=&ucat=&PHPSESSID=ac82bb259bbe7d10e28497d09b5ef9ac

typeone
04-03-2005, 11:27 AM
Well the best Britsish fighter in History? Well Lewis of course is prob one of the best we have had but as many of you guys have said it remains to see if he really is British!! "Naz" This guy wasn't a bad fighter at all and really did have a style that was hard to deal with, But when it came to meeting the big boy's the flaws in his style where there for all to see "Barrea" Made he look silly. And for me a fighter who will go out there saying hes the best, get beat by the best and not come back is a total loser! Lack of "PRIDE". I'm thinking along the lines of real fighters! "Henry Cooper" Although he lost 14.. and won 40 this guy was mugged against his fight with Ali. He should have been the winner. But Cooper has always taken it on the chin and just moved on. My kinda boxer.
Henry Cooper