View Full Version : Whats your philosophy or religion?


THE REAL NINJA
07-07-2006, 05:28 PM
The Quantum Soul is derived from Quantum Physics, and is material in essence, even though the effect of it is spiritual. The material aspects of Quantum Soul control the soul itself, there is no "sky hook". Which means that Souls can exist, according to this theory, and no god is required.

Those who believe in souls but not religion par se are drawn to this theory, and followers of Forteana, mysteries or the unexplained are dead excited about Quantum Souls.

Most the individual elements of Quantum Consciousness are under dispute. For example most of the supporting maths behind the Interconnectivity of all things is doubted, dubious, with many other theories in circulation that if true do not permit Quantum Souls to exist. But nonetheless, the Quantum Soul theory is presently the best theory of soul that we have. www.vexen.co.uk/3/q.html

platinummatt
07-07-2006, 06:25 PM
I know people who believe in heaven but not god

THE REAL NINJA
07-07-2006, 06:56 PM
I know people who believe in heaven but not god
Really :confused: how would that work ?

platinummatt
07-07-2006, 07:02 PM
I dont know lol!

BBKing
07-07-2006, 07:14 PM
I believe that God exists and that those he judges worthy will have life eternal in heaven. I wish all people believed that so that they too could be saved.

BrooklynBomber
07-08-2006, 10:40 AM
I believe in G-d and soul, but honestly, if there is nothing after death and I seaze to exist, it is fine by me, finally, just nothing, no thoughts, no thinking, just nothing.

BrooklynBomber
07-08-2006, 10:44 AM
What does a place under a sun worth for, if you cant go into shadows........................

THE REAL NINJA
07-08-2006, 10:55 AM
I believe in G-d and soul, but honestly, if there is nothing after death and I seaze to exist, it is fine by me, finally, just nothing, no thoughts, no thinking, just nothing.
The only thing i hate about that is if it is nothing then why be a good person at all :confused: You may as well do what ever you want because in the end it don't matter .

BrooklynBomber
07-08-2006, 11:00 AM
The only thing i hate about that is if it is nothing then why be a good person at all :confused: You may as well do what ever you want because in the end it don't matter .
I dont need a frickin candy gift for being a good person.
I dont need a reward for being good.
I am being good cause I ****in like it.

THE REAL NINJA
07-08-2006, 11:03 AM
I dont need a frickin candy gift for being a good person.
I dont need a reward for being good.
I am being good cause I ****in like it.
come to the dark side :purity: yeah same here but when ppl talk about death in that way it makes life seem pointless

BrooklynBomber
07-08-2006, 11:03 AM
I am being good not cause I am scared of G-d, I dont care, I do good because I think its a right thing to do, not good thing to do, but right thing to do, big difference, you know.

Oasis_Lad
07-08-2006, 11:04 AM
The only thing i hate about that is if it is nothing then why be a good person at all :confused: You may as well do what ever you want because in the end it don't matter .

how about out of love and respect for fellow human beings

even if i knew death was the end i would'nt go around causing hurt to other people

BrooklynBomber
07-08-2006, 11:04 AM
come to the dark side :purity: yeah same here but when ppl talk about death in that way it makes life seem pointless
Life is not pointless, as long as you are not making it pointless.

BrooklynBomber
07-08-2006, 11:06 AM
how about out of love and respect for fellow human beings

even if i knew death was the end i would'nt go around causing hurt to other people
I could care less about human beings, but if not me, then who?

THE REAL NINJA
07-08-2006, 11:07 AM
ok you guys do know i'm just playing devil's advocate here these are just things i've had ppl say to me in the past ;)

Oasis_Lad
07-08-2006, 11:07 AM
Life is not pointless, as long as you are not making it pointless.

totally agree i think death is the end

but i still look at people like ali mandela and lincoln

and see their lifes are and were in no way pointless

BrooklynBomber
07-08-2006, 11:10 AM
totally agree i think death is the end

but i still look at people like ali mandela and lincoln

and see their lifes are and were in no way pointless
Its like this, "I will die, but you ****ers better learn from my existance".

THE REAL NINJA
07-08-2006, 11:10 AM
totally agree i think death is the end

but i still look at people like ali mandela and lincoln

and see their lifes are and were in no way pointless
I never said do harm to others i mean why not go out and do other things that are looked down apon .

Oasis_Lad
07-08-2006, 11:14 AM
I never said do harm to others i mean why not go out and do other things that are looked down apon .

such as ?

things i would never do even if i knew there were no repurcussions

murder or rape

i dont need a fear of god to keep me in check

just respect for fellow human beings

THE REAL NINJA
07-08-2006, 11:15 AM
Life is not pointless, as long as you are not making it pointless.
you miss the point no life is not pointless but in death life would have been pointless because all of the love you had is gone it is nothing now you can't go back and get it you will never feel ever again .

THE REAL NINJA
07-08-2006, 11:18 AM
such as ?

things i would never do even if i knew there were no repurcussions

murder or rape

i dont need a fear of god to keep me in check

just respect for fellow human beings
no more like party your whole life, have random sex,do all the drugs you want,

BrooklynBomber
07-08-2006, 11:20 AM
you miss the point no life is not pointless but in death life would have been pointless because all of the love you had is gone it is nothing now you can't go back and get it you will never feel ever again .
But, that is exactly how I want, I was under the sun long enough, now I want into shadows, and honestly, if I seaze to exist, I would not care about such a thing, because I would not care at all.
I am one ****ed up ponny, am I not?

Oasis_Lad
07-08-2006, 11:20 AM
no more like party your whole life, have random sex,do all the drugs you want,

i do all those anyway

aint nothing wrong with those

it would be sad to leave those things behind

but if i must i must

BrooklynBomber
07-08-2006, 11:21 AM
no more like party your whole life, have random sex,do all the drugs you want,
Yes, I have done that and got tired after 2 years of this lifestyle.
Trust me, it is so much better to have a stable family, one wife/girlfriend and be your proverbial american then do that ****.
It gets beat and tiresome after a while.

* FeistyWench *
07-08-2006, 11:21 AM
I never said do harm to others i mean why not go out and do other things that are looked down apon .
i really don;t think religion is as much of a moral influence anymore. what i mean is that i do not think that people are good people for fear of going to hell or for wanting to go to heaven. i think we are good because we are good in our hearts, which to me would seem even better than doing it for something (some after life reward).

* FeistyWench *
07-08-2006, 11:24 AM
our conscience is our moral compass for the most part, i think.

BrooklynBomber
07-08-2006, 11:26 AM
our conscience is our moral compass for the most part, i think.
Yes, bingo!
Why cant you follow 10 commandments just out of human decency and not of fear of G-d.

THE REAL NINJA
07-08-2006, 11:29 AM
i really don;t think religion is as much of a moral influence anymore. what i mean is that i do not think that people are good people for fear of going to hell or for wanting to go to heaven. i think we are good because we are good in our hearts, which to me would seem even better than doing it for something (some after life reward).
Of course if you are only good because of fear of a higher power you would not be true to yourself or God and would be destined to fail regardless by his or your own power.

* FeistyWench *
07-08-2006, 11:35 AM
so here's a question...
what if you live a completely christian life, you are a good person, never committed any sin or crime, and are pure and good at heart, but you don't really believe in God (you have your doubts). would you still go to heaven or do you believe the person would have to believe before they died to go to heaven?

BrooklynBomber
07-08-2006, 11:36 AM
I am quite young, but in 20 years of my life, I've realised that it is much better to live with G-d in your heart, much easier to accomplish thing. But my perception of G-d is different from the usual, the absolute perfection, the Alpha and Omega etc...
I see G-d as a loving uncle that lives far away from you, but still loves and cares about you, and still eager to see you go the right way and do things right.
This perception does wonders for me.

BrooklynBomber
07-08-2006, 11:37 AM
so here's a question...
what if you live a completely christian life, you are a good person, never committed any sin or crime, and are pure and good at heart, but you don't really believe in God (you have your doubts). would you still go to heaven or do you believe the person would have to believe before they died to go to heaven?
Nope, faith is essential.

The Noose
07-08-2006, 11:51 AM
Nope, faith is essential.

Really?
So u believe that even if i help many people in my life time, really contributed postivly to society, worked hard everyday in a totally unselfish fashion amd lead an honest and truthful life....

but...

did NOT believe in God, didnt not pray, or have any belefs in any religion.
That i would not go to heaven?

Yet somone who repented for a multitude of sins at a late stage in their life, and 'found god' only a few years before they died. Then spent thier time praying all day, but not relly helping anyne in the way i did.
They would go to heaven??

BrooklynBomber
07-08-2006, 11:53 AM
Really?
So u believe that even if i help many people in my life time, really contributed postivly to society, worked hard everyday in a totally unselfish fashion amd lead an honest and truthful life....

but...

did NOT believe in God, didnt not pray, or have any belefs in any religion.
That i would not go to heaven?

Yet somone who repented for a multitude of sins at a late stage in their life, and 'found god' only a few years before they died. Then spent thier time praying all day, but not relly helping anyne in the way i did.
They would go to heaven??
I do not make the rules, go talk to Pope, or whoever is the leader of your religion.
I am not the guy who seeks heaven, as you saw in my previous posts, its jsut that the Book says, you gotta believe in order to party.
Also, if you are a believer and a sinner, you still go to hell.

THE REAL NINJA
07-08-2006, 11:55 AM
In what I believe because God can see that you are trying to have faith in him. How could a kind God punish you for somthing you can not control ?

THE REAL NINJA
07-08-2006, 11:58 AM
Really?
So u believe that even if i help many people in my life time, really contributed postivly to society, worked hard everyday in a totally unselfish fashion amd lead an honest and truthful life....

but...

did NOT believe in God, didnt not pray, or have any belefs in any religion.
That i would not go to heaven?

Yet somone who repented for a multitude of sins at a late stage in their life, and 'found god' only a few years before they died. Then spent thier time praying all day, but not relly helping anyne in the way i did.
They would go to heaven??yeah i never got that part my self :confused: what if some one did a mass murder but right before the cops kill him he says "oh but i'm sorry god " it's crazy to think the he that knows all would let ppl off so easy

BrooklynBomber
07-08-2006, 11:59 AM
yeah i never got that part my self :confused: what if some one did a mass murder but right before the cops kill him he says "oh but i'm sorry god " it's crazy to think the he that knows all would let ppl off so easy
I think, that if he actually believed he was sorry, hw is granted his way into heaven.

THE REAL NINJA
07-08-2006, 12:01 PM
I do not make the rules, go talk to Pope, or whoever is the leader of your religion.
I am not the guy who seeks heaven, as you saw in my previous posts, its jsut that the Book says, you gotta believe in order to party.
Also, if you are a believer and a sinner, you still go to hell.
That's even worst because then it's not out of ignorance but in spite of his will .

BrooklynBomber
07-08-2006, 12:03 PM
That's even worst because then it's not out of ignorance but in spite of his will .
What do u mean?

THE REAL NINJA
07-08-2006, 12:03 PM
I think, that if he actually believed he was sorry, hw is granted his way into heaven.
Ok then what if a person really wants to believe in God but for some reason can not hold faith can he then ask to be forgiven for lack there of and still go ?

THE REAL NINJA
07-08-2006, 12:05 PM
What do u mean?
Someone that never knew what the rules were would not be as bad as someone who knows but does those things anyways .

BrooklynBomber
07-08-2006, 12:06 PM
Ok then what if a person really wants to believe in God but for some reason can not hold faith can he then ask to be forgiven for lack there of and still go ?
Yes, I really think, that if you tried to hold faith your whole life, but failed a few along the way, but now know where you have been wrong and seek the forgiveness, they will let you in.
I mean, you were seeking the faith and your G-d, you were going the right way.

The Noose
07-08-2006, 12:08 PM
I do not make the rules, go talk to Pope, or whoever is the leader of your religion.
I am not the guy who seeks heaven, as you saw in my previous posts, its jsut that the Book says, you gotta believe in order to party.
Also, if you are a believer and a sinner, you still go to hell.

I asked if thats what u belive. Thats all.

Im just curious about peoples beliefs. And im not sure all the elements of peoples faith are positive ones.
I think that faith can be great, and wish people could embrace other religions, instead of preaching that theirs is the "one true faith". Which can make them belive they are 'better' or more important than other people.
Which causes conflict and hostility. IMO.

I belive we are free to choose our own religion, or spiritual path, or watever. But really feel its important for people to learn and respect other peoples beliefs and cultures. Not place theirs on a higher pedistal. It causes divide and disharmony.

* FeistyWench *
07-08-2006, 12:08 PM
yeah i never got that part my self :confused: what if some one did a mass murder but right before the cops kill him he says "oh but i'm sorry god " it's crazy to think the he that knows all would let ppl off so easy
yeah, it is a bit convoluted. if a person was perfect their whole life - followed every doctrine of christianity - was unselfish, gave of himself completely to help others and was very pure of heart but doubted the existence of a God NOT to be granted to heaven but someone who was a "right bastard" his whole life and commit sin after sin and then truly repent right before death Go to heaven just doesn't seem right.

it makes sense that God would know if you were truly repenting for your previous sins and if you were truly asking for forgiveness and a believer in God, so for those who were asking for forgiveness out of fear and nothing else it would seem logcical they would not go to heaven.

but i still don't get why the pure and good "doubter" would not go :confused:

i think people take the bible too literally and need to realize who had influence over it and it's interpretations.

The Noose
07-08-2006, 12:17 PM
it makes sense that God would know if you were truly repenting for your previous sins and if you were truly asking for forgiveness and a believer in God, so for those who were asking for forgiveness out of fear and nothing else it would seem logcical they would not go to heaven.

but i still don't get why the pure and good "doubter" would not go :confused:



That reminds me of wen i renounced my faith in christianity.
It was like a atheistic revelation, with god letting me know it was ok to not believe. Being true to yourself is all that matters.

THE REAL NINJA
07-08-2006, 12:20 PM
yeah, it is a bit convoluted. if a person was perfect their whole life - followed every doctrine of christianity - was unselfish, gave of himself completely to help others and was very pure of heart but doubted the existence of a God NOT to be granted to heaven but someone who was a "right bastard" his whole life and commit sin after sin and then truly repent right before death Go to heaven just doesn't seem right.

it makes sense that God would know if you were truly repenting for your previous sins and if you were truly asking for forgiveness and a believer in God, so for those who were asking for forgiveness out of fear and nothing else it would seem logcical they would not go to heaven.

but i still don't get why the pure and good "doubter" would not go :confused:

i think people take the bible too literally and need to realize who had influence over it and it's interpretations.
I agree fully I just go by what i feel is right no matter if it's from christianity,muslim, whatever, i think it all leads to the same place .

SonnyG8R
07-08-2006, 01:14 PM
so here's a question...
what if you live a completely christian life, you are a good person, never committed any sin or crime, and are pure and good at heart, but you don't really believe in God (you have your doubts). would you still go to heaven or do you believe the person would have to believe before they died to go to heaven?

You must accept Jesus as your savior if you want to go to heaven. We are all sinners, but thankfully Jesus died for our sins, so we can be saved.

People who say they live "a completely Christian life" and yet don't believe in God, haven't read the Bible and don't pray, don't ask forgiveness of their sins, don't repent and try to live a better life, etc. are kidding themselves.

SonnyG8R
07-08-2006, 01:30 PM
Also, if you are a believer and a sinner, you still go to hell.

If that were true nobody would get into heaven. You are missing the point of why the lord sent his only son to die for our sins.

Make no mistake, in the end God is the only one who will judge who gets into heaven. However, he has given us a model of how to live and that model is Jesus. We all sin but if you ask forgiveness and repent (which means turning away from sin) try to be a better person and live as the lord taught then you will be forgiven.

One big problem I see is that too many people pray at the alter of the almighy dollar sign, and they have this false concept that having more money or more things somehow makes them a better person.

The Noose
07-08-2006, 01:39 PM
You must accept Jesus as your savior if you want to go to heaven. We are all sinners, but thankfully Jesus died for our sins, so we can be saved.

People who say they live "a completely Christian life" and yet don't believe in God, haven't read the Bible and don't pray, don't ask forgiveness of their sins, don't repent and try to live a better life, etc. are kidding themselves.

I dont think she meant 'a completely christian life' literally. More like if ur a honest and good person. No lying, stealing, adultry, nasty bum sex with pirates, etc.

* FeistyWench *
07-08-2006, 01:58 PM
You must accept Jesus as your savior if you want to go to heaven. We are all sinners, but thankfully Jesus died for our sins, so we can be saved.

People who say they live "a completely Christian life" and yet don't believe in God, haven't read the Bible and don't pray, don't ask forgiveness of their sins, don't repent and try to live a better life, etc. are kidding themselves.
i was trying to be hypothetical. like if a person was a great person with a pure heart, totally selfless, made money to live but not for profit, lived a humble live, dedicated all his time and effort to help others, etc.
just the epitome of what God would want us to be only flaw would be the person didn;t go to church, pray, or necessarily believe in God. let's say the person was not completely certain whether God existed or not. not an atheist per se, just a doubter who wanted to believe and lived his life without sinning or doing anything else "non-christian" other than being a doubter.

i guess i was going for a hypothetical in which the doubter was otherwise "perfect"

platinummatt
07-08-2006, 02:02 PM
I am being good not cause I am scared of G-d, I dont care, I do good because I think its a right thing to do, not good thing to do, but right thing to do, big difference, you know.
This is right. You shouldnt be good just because you want heaven. Its not how its ment to be or if you dont want hell

SonnyG8R
07-08-2006, 02:17 PM
Really?
So u believe that even if i help many people in my life time, really contributed postivly to society, worked hard everyday in a totally unselfish fashion amd lead an honest and truthful life....

but...

did NOT believe in God, didnt not pray, or have any belefs in any religion.
That i would not go to heaven?

Yet somone who repented for a multitude of sins at a late stage in their life, and 'found god' only a few years before they died. Then spent thier time praying all day, but not relly helping anyne in the way i did.
They would go to heaven??

It doesn't work that way. Repenting does not mean spending all day praying. It means changing the way you act. Putting an end to sinning. Making a conserted effort to help others in need, and behave in a way Christ has taught. If you read Acts in the Bible you will understand that it's not just about saying your sorry. Actions speak louder than words and you have to show you are sorry throught your actions.

One other thing. You cannot say "oh it's ok if I commit this sin because I can ask forgiveness later." You need to make a conscious effort to live according to the gospel.

SonnyG8R
07-08-2006, 02:19 PM
i was trying to be hypothetical. like if a person was a great person with a pure heart, totally selfless, made money to live but not for profit, lived a humble live, dedicated all his time and effort to help others, etc.
just the epitome of what God would want us to be only flaw would be the person didn;t go to church, pray, or necessarily believe in God. let's say the person was not completely certain whether God existed or not. not an atheist per se, just a doubter who wanted to believe and lived his life without sinning or doing anything else "non-christian" other than being a doubter.

i guess i was going for a hypothetical in which the doubter was otherwise "perfect"

There is no such person.

people are always looking for the easy way out.

"Oh I'm a good person deep down, if there is a God he'll understand and forgive me."

It doesn't work that way as much as most people would like it to.

* FeistyWench *
07-08-2006, 02:28 PM
There is no such person.

people are always looking for the easy way out.

"Oh I'm a good person deep down, if there is a God he'll understand and forgive me."

It doesn't work that way as much as most people would like it to.
I KNOW!
like i said it was just purely hypothetical! i don;t think such a person exists, i was just wondering if such a person DID exist and was not actually a disbeliever, would he be allowed into heaven for the way he lived his life, but i already got the answer: "no".

The Noose
07-08-2006, 02:31 PM
It doesn't work that way. Repenting does not mean spending all day praying. It means changing the way you act. Putting an end to sinning. Making a conserted effort to help others in need, and behave in a way Christ has taught. If you read Acts in the Bible you will understand that it's not just about saying your sorry. Actions speak louder than words and you have to show you are sorry throught your actions.

One other thing. You cannot say "oh it's ok if I commit this sin because I can ask forgiveness later." You need to make a conscious effort to live according to the gospel.

Ultimatly, i dont understand why according to some peoples beliefs, i would go to hell. Or at least not to heaven. While someone who does the same amount of good i do, helps others as much as me etc, will go to heaven because they pray, or attend church.

I dont see the difference between my lifestyle and alot of christians lifestyles. In fact, i believe i have helped people more than many christaisn i know. Not that i am better than they are.
We both do our best. So why the acceptance into heaven for them, and not me?

U said actions speak louder than words, well, this is my point.

If i prayed and repented, and said the right things would that be the difference?

Surely god values our actions and not our words right? So wat is the difference between me and any christian?

* FeistyWench *
07-08-2006, 02:45 PM
Ultimatly, i dont understand why according to some peoples beliefs, i would go to hell. Or at least not to heaven. While someone who does the same amount of good i do, helps others as much as me etc, will go to heaven because they pray, or attend church.

I dont see the difference between my lifestyle and alot of christians lifestyles. In fact, i believe i have helped people more than many christaisn i know. Not that i am better than they are.
We both do our best. So why the acceptance into heaven for them, and not me?

U said actions speak louder than words, well, this is my point.

If i prayed and repented, and said the right things would that be the difference?

Surely god values our actions and not our words right? So wat is the difference between me and any christian?
i think the key is that you are a believer in God.
this is similar to my hypothetical question. it does not matter how you live your life, if you do not truly believe in God in your heart, you aren't going to heaven.

SonnyG8R
07-08-2006, 02:49 PM
Ultimatly, i dont understand why according to some peoples beliefs, i would go to hell. Or at least not to heaven. While someone who does the same amount of good i do, helps others as much as me etc, will go to heaven because they pray, or attend church.

I dont see the difference between my lifestyle and alot of christians lifestyles. In fact, i believe i have helped people more than many christaisn i know. Not that i am better than they are.
We both do our best. So why the acceptance into heaven for them, and not me?

U said actions speak louder than words, well, this is my point.

If i prayed and repented, and said the right things would that be the difference?

Surely god values our actions and not our words right? So wat is the difference between me and any christian?

God makes the ultimate decision but the Bible makes it pretty clear that you have to accept Jesus as your savior if you want to get into heaven.

I'm not even saying I'm completely comfortable with that. Like DirtEGomez said, so much of one's religion/belief systems/world view goes back to their culture and upbringing.

SonnyG8R
07-08-2006, 02:50 PM
Well I've got a wedding to go to.

Talk to you later.

Peace :cool:

And God Bless. :D

The Noose
07-08-2006, 02:57 PM
Thats why i would never worship a god that sends 'innocent' non believers to hell.
And i dont understand people that do.

I can understand god and jesus being an example of how to live and be moral or watever. But to punish those merely because they dont believe i dont understand.
To me that is the epitome of imorrality and i believe in standing up for ur own belifs even wen threatened with hell. (ironically as jesus did)

Some have paralleled christianity with a fascist regime.

Ta Khent
07-08-2006, 03:03 PM
You must accept Jesus as your savior if you want to go to heaven. We are all sinners, but thankfully Jesus died for our sins, so we can be saved.

People who say they live "a completely Christian life" and yet don't believe in God, haven't read the Bible and don't pray, don't ask forgiveness of their sins, don't repent and try to live a better life, etc. are kidding themselves.

There is no more proof to the existence of Christ than there is to Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy. Christianity was created in order to unite the Roman Empire under one religion.

* FeistyWench *
07-08-2006, 03:12 PM
we all aren't going to agree on things, esp. not religion, but IN THIS LOUNGE we need to be respectful of others opinions, even if we disagree.
we can argue the points of our own beliefs but we can't
put down other people for their beliefs.
thanks. :cool:

The Noose
07-08-2006, 03:19 PM
There is no more proof to the existence of Christ than there is to Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy. Christianity was created in order to unite the Roman Empire under one religion.

We were discussing beliefs, not proof or origin of religion.
Its peoples choice to accept such beliefs that is intersting.

Ta Khent
07-08-2006, 03:21 PM
we all aren't going to agree on things, esp. not religion, but IN THIS LOUNGE we need to be respectful of others opinions, even if we disagree.
we can argue the points of our own beliefs but we can't
put down other people for their beliefs.
thanks. :cool:

I didn't realize people are so sensitive in this lounge. I'll tone it down.

Ta Khent
07-08-2006, 03:22 PM
We were discussing beliefs, not proof or origin of religion.
Its peoples choice to accept such beliefs that is intersting.

If someone is making an assertion, I'm well within my right to disprove it.

* FeistyWench *
07-08-2006, 03:23 PM
I didn't realize people are so sensitive in this lounge. I'll tone it down.
it's not that we;re sensitive. we created this lounge so people can talk about issues and beliefs without being flames or hated on. a place that welcomes debate but only if done in a respectful manner. trust me, i disagree with a lot of the beliefs in here, but i can disagree without calling them an educated dumbass. lol! ;) :p

* FeistyWench *
07-08-2006, 03:25 PM
If someone is making an assertion, I'm well within my right to disprove it.
well, we welcome those who like to point out facts and share their opinions, just not to put down others for their beliefs.

The Noose
07-08-2006, 03:29 PM
If someone is making an assertion, I'm well within my right to disprove it.

Thats cool, but Sonny wasnt talking about jesus being real or not. Even if jesus was a work of fiction, the point he was making was one to do with christian belief and lifestyle.

But the existance of jesus is interesting. Have u seen a documentry called The God thet Wasnt There?

Ta Khent
07-08-2006, 03:37 PM
Thats cool, but Sonny wasnt talking about jesus being real or not. Even if jesus was a work of fiction, the point he was making was one to do with christian belief and lifestyle.

But the existance of jesus is interesting. Have u seen a documentry called The God thet Wasnt There?

When Sonny says that Jesus died for our sins and we must accept him, he's implying that Jesus was real. I have not seen the documentary, but I've done extensive research on the existence of Jesus and have read the Council of Nicea document. It's very interesting how Consantine shaped Christianity.

* FeistyWench *
07-08-2006, 03:47 PM
When Sonny says that Jesus died for our sins and we must accept him, he's implying that Jesus was real. I have not seen the documentary, but I've done extensive research on the existence of Jesus and have read the Council of Nicea document. It's very interesting how Consantine shaped Christianity.
I don't think Sonny was saying that we must believe him.
He was stating what the christian church/religions hold to be true...that Jesus died for our sins and that you must believe that, as well as believe in God and lived a certain "christian" manner in order to go to heaven.
it doesn't mean that he is right and everyone else is wrong, only that is what his religion/belief is.

PATO 1
07-08-2006, 04:47 PM
hard 2 say

BrooklynBomber
07-08-2006, 04:51 PM
There is no such person.

people are always looking for the easy way out.

"Oh I'm a good person deep down, if there is a God he'll understand and forgive me."

It doesn't work that way as much as most people would like it to.
Dont want to get into debate with you, but o'rly?
Well, I see Bible got it all figured out for you.
Interesting....

BrooklynBomber
07-08-2006, 04:56 PM
I also do not like the whole idea of someone dying for my sins.
I am not the one to judge him, but I really think its very arrogant and selfish.
On the other hand, I am not christian, so its no concern for me.

* FeistyWench *
07-08-2006, 05:48 PM
so...
here's another question.
where does the Bible/christianity stand on the existence of ghosts (lost souls trapped here or in limbo or whatever)?

The Noose
07-08-2006, 06:08 PM
so...
here's another question.
where does the Bible/christianity stand on the existence of ghosts (lost souls trapped here or in limbo or whatever)?

Alot of my family who are catholic definatly believ in ghosts.
Iwould have thought that in a way it proved the existance of life after death.

* FeistyWench *
07-08-2006, 06:32 PM
Alot of my family who are catholic definatly believ in ghosts.
Iwould have thought that in a way it proved the existance of life after death.
i just know that if i encountered a real ghost, that'd be it. lol! i'd be attending church quite daily!!!

K-DOGG
07-08-2006, 07:12 PM
The only thing about "ghosts" is what they really are. Are they real spirits trapped in this world or psychic echoes of the traumatic final moments of a person's life. I do believe they exist though, personally, I've never seen one...that I can confirm.

The Noose
07-08-2006, 08:59 PM
I do not believe in ghosts.
Just because there are so many 'logical' explanations, or at least thories that are more reasonable (hallucinations, imagination, trick of light, bull**** etc)

I just think our brains **** with us.

* FeistyWench *
07-08-2006, 09:31 PM
I do not believe in ghosts.
Just because there are so many 'logical' explanations, or at least thories that are more reasonable (hallucinations, imagination, trick of light, bull**** etc)

I just think our brains **** with us.
i mean if there was no doubt that you saw a ghost (another hypothetical) and it moved something or did something and you were completely sober and knew no one was playing a trick on you.

The Noose
07-08-2006, 09:38 PM
i mean if there was no doubt that you saw a ghost (another hypothetical) and it moved something or did something and you were completely sober and knew no one was playing a trick on you.

Whats the question your Wenchness??

I still say there are non-supernatural explanations. But if ur talking about a religous veiw, than i cant help u.

The Noose
07-08-2006, 09:46 PM
If i experienced somthing strange and totally believable, id be scared as ****.
But the unknown is always scary. I wouldnt say it was definatly a ghost, just a unexplanable happening, that scared the **** outa me.

For me to say its a ghost, would mean i would believe in some kind of afterlife, which i dont really.
If somthing unexplanable happens, i think its too easy to just say it was a ghost or alien or divine intervention.

* FeistyWench *
07-09-2006, 11:43 AM
If i experienced somthing strange and totally believable, id be scared as ****.
But the unknown is always scary. I wouldnt say it was definatly a ghost, just a unexplanable happening, that scared the **** outa me.

For me to say its a ghost, would mean i would believe in some kind of afterlife, which i dont really.
If somthing unexplanable happens, i think its too easy to just say it was a ghost or alien or divine intervention.
i was wondering how religious people felt about the existence of ghosts, spirits, or whatever and these "entities" making contact or showing themselves or moving things. I am not a believer in them myself, but when people talk about believing in ghosts everyone looks at them like they are crazy. i was with a group of about 30 women once and one started talking about she is a ghost chaser. She travel the U.S. going to places where ghost activity exists - basically she does some kinda of research. everyone thought she was a looney tune. lol!

IMO existence of ghosts or whatever you want to call them confirms existence of souls and of God.

SonnyG8R
07-09-2006, 07:32 PM
Thats why i would never worship a god that sends 'innocent' non believers to hell.
And i dont understand people that do.

I can understand god and jesus being an example of how to live and be moral or watever. But to punish those merely because they dont believe i dont understand.
To me that is the epitome of imorrality and i believe in standing up for ur own belifs even wen threatened with hell. (ironically as jesus did)

Some have paralleled christianity with a fascist regime.

You've got it backwords. The Lord doesn't send anyone to hell. You make that decision. You have free will. Even if you screw up, even if you turn your back on him, the opportunity to be forgiven and get back on the right track exists. God doesn't want anyone to go to hell. he wants everyone to join him in heaven. But the choice is yours, and there are only 2 choices. Follow the lord or follow Satan. And those people who say things like "hell will be more fun". That's pretty foolish.

SonnyG8R
07-09-2006, 07:46 PM
Dont want to get into debate with you, but o'rly?
Well, I see Bible got it all figured out for you.
Interesting....

You stated "if you are a believer and a sinner, you still go to hell." What i said is that everyone is a sinner. Have you ever had lustful thoughts? Have you ever felt proud of an accomplishment? Then you are a sinner. If no sinners ever made it to heaven then the place would be empty.

And for the record NO the Bible doesn't have it ALL figured out for me. I do believe that parts of the Bible are allegorical and many parts have meaning beyond there modern translation.

THE REAL NINJA
07-09-2006, 10:13 PM
If a baby dies does it go to hell because it is born with sin ?

The Noose
07-09-2006, 11:44 PM
You've got it backwords. The Lord doesn't send anyone to hell. You make that decision. You have free will. Even if you screw up, even if you turn your back on him, the opportunity to be forgiven and get back on the right track exists. God doesn't want anyone to go to hell. he wants everyone to join him in heaven. But the choice is yours, and there are only 2 choices. Follow the lord or follow Satan. And those people who say things like "hell will be more fun". That's pretty foolish.

Ok, but what if u just cant find faith in your heart?

Take me for example. I dont believe, i just cant seem to believe in a christian biblical god.
How can i be saved?

Is faith a choice u make, if i were to get baptised, eventhough i didnt really believe, would that save me?

* FeistyWench *
07-10-2006, 01:07 PM
If a baby dies does it go to hell because it is born with sin ?
no..............

* FeistyWench *
07-10-2006, 01:09 PM
Ok, but what if u just cant find faith in your heart?

Take me for example. I dont believe, i just cant seem to believe in a christian biblical god.
How can i be saved?

Is faith a choice u make, if i were to get baptised, eventhough i didnt really believe, would that save me?
no.
faith is a belief. you have it or don't. you can choose to believe but if you don;t really believe i would think that God would know.

i am just guessing here, of course. but that is my understanding of the christian belief.

Ta Khent
07-10-2006, 11:29 PM
If one removed from the Bible all that which isn't original, then it would be about as thin as a SuperMarket sales flyer.

Even the Lord's Prayer isn't new.

The Missing Lin
07-11-2006, 08:30 AM
Soul? I dont believe in it.
As to the other post; I do not believe in a God or a heavan. I think anyone who does is just confused or not sure if they want to give up on the idea of a God - just in case they might be wrong...

platinummatt
07-11-2006, 12:44 PM
Whats your philosophy or religion?
Mines christianity. And you have to be happy within yourself, because outside influences can go in a second.

For example if youre ONLY happy because you are married. Your wife may leave you.

BBKing
07-11-2006, 02:25 PM
Soul? I dont believe in it.
As to the other post; I do not believe in a God or a heavan. I think anyone who does is just confused or not sure if they want to give up on the idea of a God - just in case they might be wrong...

Very presumptuous of you don't you think. Trying to analyze and discredit billions of people's faith.

The Missing Lin
07-17-2006, 09:46 AM
Very presumptuous of you don't you think. Trying to analyze and discredit billions of people's faith.
I dont have to discredit it - none of it has ever been proven.
Is that presumptuous? I dont think so.

platinummatt
07-23-2006, 08:26 AM
Dont read this if youre going to complain.
To all who follow christ: We live in luxury, filled be expensive things we have no need for. We fill the gaps in ourselves with material goods, this I say, is bad for the soul. Would we not get more pleasure from helping others, than from these items. Our expensive jacuzzis, cars, items of no use such as jewellery ( which I confess I am wearing now )
We live in a rich country, there are many in poor countries, which we can help. I quote now from luke 16 19. The rich man and lazarus.
There was a rich man who dressed in purple and fine linen in luxury every day. At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores and longing to eat what fell
from the rich man's table. Even the dog came and licked his sores.
The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried. In hell, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. So he called to him, 'father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.' But Abraham replied, 'son remember that in your lifetime your received good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.'
He answered, 'Then I beg you, father send Lazarus to my father's house, for I have I hav five brothers. Let him warn them, so they will not also come to this place of torment.
Abraham replied, 'they have Moses and the prophets; let them listen to them.' No father Abraham,' he said, but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.' He said to him, 'If they do not listen to moses and the prophets, they will no be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.'"

So my brothers and sisters, are we any different from the rich man. Are countries like Ethiopia any different from Lazarus? I say no. This is on a natational, and global scale. From country to country, from person to person.
Also I ask those who do not believe. Is it not more logical to help the dying and suffering, than to tend to our own wants, those of which are only luxuries. That new Tv could save lives.
Peace to you all, God bless

The Noose
07-23-2006, 11:58 AM
"Let him who is without sin cast the first stone".
Are you a missionary?
What are you doing to save lives? Your internet bill could also save lives couldnt it?

If you are speaking to non believers, why recite a passage from the bible about hell?
It makes it sound like believers only help others to save themselves from hell, as oppose to helping others unselfishly.

platinummatt
07-23-2006, 12:07 PM
No, nothing as of yet, its not my internet, ones for christians others for non. Dont have to read it if you dont want to.

platinummatt
07-23-2006, 12:11 PM
Its a practice preach.

The Noose
07-23-2006, 12:24 PM
No, nothing as of yet, its not my internet, ones for christians others for non. Dont have to read it if you dont want to.

One is for christians, and the other is not?
Which one is for non christians?

At the beginning u say "For all who follow christ".
Then there is the bible story.
Then u compare Ethiopia to Lazerus.

I understand ur good intentions. We are do live in a consumerist society and cannot justify our greed whilst people are dying.
But instead of practising ur preaching.
Just practice wat u preach.
Maybe talk about wat u are doing to help others, and how u have balanced work, paying rent etc with volunteer work, and figuring out how to bring down the corrupt governments that are the main cause of famine and war.

platinummatt
07-23-2006, 12:34 PM
Also I ask those who do not believe. Is it not more logical to help the dying and suffering, than to tend to our own wants, those of which are only luxuries. That new Tv could save lives.
Yeh I know. But to try and do that you must preach to. I should do both. Im not thinking im all you know high and mighty. I just want to help.

The Noose
07-23-2006, 12:47 PM
Also I ask those who do not believe. Is it not more logical to help the dying and suffering, than to tend to our own wants, those of which are only luxuries. That new Tv could save lives.
Yeh I know. But to try and do that you must preach to. I should do both. Im not thinking im all you know high and mighty. I just want to help.

Preaching to non believers tends to piss them off.
Suggesting practical solutions to global problems, whilst activly helping others (campaigning, volunteering etc) would make people think.

So, i have been thinking of doing volunteer work in my local hospital whilst i look for a steady job.

platinummatt
07-23-2006, 12:50 PM
cool good idea. Yeh I know, that was just a christian preach, the end bit was to non believers.

The Noose
07-23-2006, 01:08 PM
cool good idea. Yeh I know, that was just a christian preach, the end bit was to non believers.

lol. Yea, i get it now.
The first thing i thought was, "this gut has just got back from church".

I just think before u speak to people about them changing their ways, u must change urself. Otherwise it comes across as holier than thou.

platinummatt
07-23-2006, 01:35 PM
I was testing out my preaching skills. seeing if they were any good you know, seeing if it made sense. You gotta practice to preach! Yeh I know you should act on it to.

K-DOGG
07-23-2006, 06:46 PM
No, nothing as of yet, its not my internet, ones for christians others for non. Dont have to read it if you dont want to.

My young friend, I see what you're trying to "sell", so to speak...and there's nothing wrong with it; but you have to allow for rebutle and then respond. Communication is not a one way street.

K-DOGG
07-23-2006, 06:48 PM
One is for christians, and the other is not?
Which one is for non christians?

At the beginning u say "For all who follow christ".
Then there is the bible story.
Then u compare Ethiopia to Lazerus.

I understand ur good intentions. We are do live in a consumerist society and cannot justify our greed whilst people are dying.
But instead of practising ur preaching.
Just practice wat u preach.
Maybe talk about wat u are doing to help others, and how u have balanced work, paying rent etc with volunteer work, and figuring out how to bring down the corrupt governments that are the main cause of famine and war.

Good points, Bobby.

The Noose
07-23-2006, 09:21 PM
Good points, Bobby.
Thankyou my brother.

K-DOGG
07-24-2006, 02:01 PM
Thankyou my brother.

Anytime. ;)

phallus
07-24-2006, 06:59 PM
lol. Yea, i get it now.
The first thing i thought was, "this gut has just got back from church".

I just think before u speak to people about them changing their ways, u must change urself. Otherwise it comes across as holier than thou.



good one, bobby...amen, mate

The Noose
07-24-2006, 07:44 PM
good one, bobby...amen, mate

Ur all right. I fukin rule!

U may worship me anytime. I execpt payments through paypal only.

The Noose
07-24-2006, 08:50 PM
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c396/Cero666/God.jpg

K-DOGG
07-25-2006, 12:47 PM
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c396/Cero666/God.jpg

LOL!!!! THAT IS GA-REAT!!

Brother, if I could, "K" would be coming your way. Funny stuff...and possible. ;)

Ta Khent
07-25-2006, 01:31 PM
It's always best to know than believe, but usually only if you need to know. What I'm saying is everything is not meant to be known at a particular time, and some things you'll never know, and if you don't need to know, it doesn't matter if you don't know. So, it won't nessesarily hurt if you believe in something.

Knowing is not alway a comfortable experience. Knowledge can hurt you(i.e."truth hurt"), but you still know. Belief will always imply doubt for the simple fact that you don't know for sure.

Faith should aways be applied with knowledge of what you have faith in. That's what makes the faith sincere. Blind faith is insanity.

I have faith that their is a life after death(wrongly misinterperted as the afterlife). I have that faith because I know that our bodies run of energy (life), generated by Earth(food), Air, Water, and the Sun. Energy as we know never dies, but it will change form. That's a faith that I have as opposed to having faith that there is a life after death where I will live as a human being forever, worry free, or in a pit of fire for eternity. This type of faith is based on word of mouth, and backed up by rituals and cultural tradition, which are all ancient in origin.

Faith is only reasonable when you can prove as much as possible and rule out the fantasitic to the ridiculous. Then you can have strong faith in the UNSEEN.

K-DOGG
07-25-2006, 02:14 PM
It's always best to know than believe, but usually only if you need to know. What I'm saying is everything is not meant to be known at a particular time, and some things you'll never know, and if you don't need to know, it doesn't matter if you don't know. So, it won't nessesarily hurt if you believe in something.

Knowing is not alway a comfortable experience. Knowledge can hurt you(i.e."truth hurt"), but you still know. Belief will always imply doubt for the simple fact that you don't know for sure.

Faith should aways be applied with knowledge of what you have faith in. That's what makes the faith sincere. Blind faith is insanity.

I have faith that their is a life after death(wrongly misinterperted as the afterlife). I have that faith because I know that our bodies run of energy (life), generated by Earth(food), Air, Water, and the Sun. Energy as we know never dies, but it will change form. That's a faith that I have as opposed to having faith that there is a life after death where I will live as a human being forever, worry free, or in a pit of fire for eternity. This type of faith is based on word of mouth, and backed up by rituals and cultural tradition, which are all ancient in origin.

Faith is only reasonable when you can prove as much as possible and rule out the fantasitic to the ridiculous. Then you can have strong faith in the UNSEEN.

You and I are more on the same page than you know.

Very intelligent and well thought-out post.

Ta Khent
07-25-2006, 02:52 PM
You and I are more on the same page than you know.

Very intelligent and well thought-out post.

Thank you.

platinummatt
07-25-2006, 03:02 PM
I have seen ghosts, so I know there are ghosts. Whats real anyway? I think therefor I am. I did an essay once, on what is reality. off the point really. But I took a quote from the art of motorcycle maintenance. Something like. Reality is truth, truth is what we perceive etc. In the end I put in conclusion I just said what real is reality, or something, and god knows reality

phallus
07-25-2006, 07:49 PM
Ur all right. I fukin rule!

U may worship me anytime. I execpt payments through paypal only.


would u accept, uh, donations of bodily fluids?

BrooklynBomber
07-25-2006, 08:23 PM
would u accept, uh, donations of bodily fluids?
What are u, on a blood drive? ;)

Dirt E Gomez
07-26-2006, 03:40 AM
All I know is that if a god does exist, I hope he forgives me when I die for being such a dirty *******.

platinummatt
07-26-2006, 07:19 AM
Repent, and follow the light. Buy a Bible Gomez!


.





.


NOW I KNOW SOMEONES GONNA COMPLAIN ABOUT THAT:D

The Noose
07-26-2006, 04:02 PM
Repent, and follow the light. Buy a Bible Gomez!


.


NOW I KNOW SOMEONES GONNA COMPLAIN ABOUT THAT:D

I think he is safe. The bible doesnt mention *******s.
;)

Dirt E Gomez
07-26-2006, 04:31 PM
Hah, funny you should say that. I've no need to buy bibles. In the trunk of my car surrounding my sub woofers are at least 30 bibles and 10 books of mormon. I have a habit of stealing them whenever given the opportunity at random house parties or hotels.

The Noose
07-26-2006, 05:48 PM
Repent, and follow the light. Buy a Bible Gomez!


And also, about light...
"In Roman astronomy, Lucifer was the name given to the morning star (the star we now know by another Roman name, Venus). The morning star appears in the heavens just before dawn, heralding the rising sun. The name derives from the Latin term lucem ferre, bringer, or bearer, of light."

Yes. Follow the light.
Join us! :firedevil

light/fire/hell. Makes sense to me. ;)

K-DOGG
07-26-2006, 05:54 PM
And also, about light...
"In Roman astronomy, Lucifer was the name given to the morning star (the star we now know by another Roman name, Venus). The morning star appears in the heavens just before dawn, heralding the rising sun. The name derives from the Latin term lucem ferre, bringer, or bearer, of light."

Yes. Follow the light.
Join us! :firedevil

light/fire/hell. Makes sense to me. ;)

You're going to hell, you know that. ;)

The Noose
07-26-2006, 06:35 PM
You're going to hell, you know that. ;)

I wouldnt wana be anywhere else.

The way i see it, u lot up there in the sky, sitting on clouds and playing harps with Will Smith are gonna choke on the fumes of me and my burning buddies. :D

phallus
07-26-2006, 06:40 PM
I wouldnt wana be anywhere else.

The way i see it, u lot up there in the sky, sitting on clouds and playing harps with Will Smith are gonna choke on the fumes of me and my burning buddies. :D


**** Will Smith, his ass will be cast out!

K-DOGG
07-26-2006, 06:45 PM
**** Will Smith, his ass will be cast out!

...yeah, with the memory of "Ali"....and how GOOD it COULD have been....burned into my brain, I don't know if I would be able to keep up my "saintly" demeanor for all eternity.

K-DOGG
07-26-2006, 06:46 PM
I wouldnt wana be anywhere else.

The way i see it, u lot up there in the sky, sitting on clouds and playing harps with Will Smith are gonna choke on the fumes of me and my burning buddies. :D

MARSHMELLOWS ANYONE?! :D

The Noose
07-26-2006, 06:47 PM
**** Will Smith, his ass will be cast out!

Well he aint coming to my sweet hell.

God will have to make a place especially for Will Smith.

K-DOGG
07-26-2006, 06:58 PM
Well he aint coming to my sweet hell.

God will have to make a place especially for Will Smith.

"...parents just don't understand."


:D

phallus
07-26-2006, 07:07 PM
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c396/Cero666/God.jpg



another awesome post BoBbY, it does give me the horn

platinummatt
07-27-2006, 08:49 AM
He CLAIMS to be an angel of the light. Will smith lol.. What kinda trouble has he been in.

The Noose
07-27-2006, 09:33 AM
"...parents just don't understand."


:D
lmao.

nice. I never knew Will's songs was so deep.

The Noose
07-27-2006, 09:37 AM
He CLAIMS to be an angel of the light.


God gave Lucifer his name.
But then he was naughty and disobeyed God.
So God banished him from heaven.

* FeistyWench *
07-27-2006, 11:47 AM
Dont read this if youre going to complain.
To all who follow christ: We live in luxury, filled be expensive things we have no need for. We fill the gaps in ourselves with material goods, this I say, is bad for the soul. Would we not get more pleasure from helping others, than from these items. Our expensive jacuzzis, cars, items of no use such as jewellery ( which I confess I am wearing now )
We live in a rich country, there are many in poor countries, which we can help. I quote now from luke 16 19. The rich man and lazarus.
There was a rich man who dressed in purple and fine linen in luxury every day. At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores and longing to eat what fell
from the rich man's table. Even the dog came and licked his sores.
The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried. In hell, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. So he called to him, 'father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.' But Abraham replied, 'son remember that in your lifetime your received good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.'
He answered, 'Then I beg you, father send Lazarus to my father's house, for I have I hav five brothers. Let him warn them, so they will not also come to this place of torment.
Abraham replied, 'they have Moses and the prophets; let them listen to them.' No father Abraham,' he said, but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.' He said to him, 'If they do not listen to moses and the prophets, they will no be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.'"

So my brothers and sisters, are we any different from the rich man. Are countries like Ethiopia any different from Lazarus? I say no. This is on a natational, and global scale. From country to country, from person to person.
Also I ask those who do not believe. Is it not more logical to help the dying and suffering, than to tend to our own wants, those of which are only luxuries. That new Tv could save lives.
Peace to you all, God bless
matty, just be careful with your thread topics.
it is not a place to preach but rather a place to spark debate or discussion.
threads should have a clear purpose/question so that others can respond.

platinummatt
07-27-2006, 11:49 AM
ok Ill make a debating one next time

* FeistyWench *
07-27-2006, 11:56 AM
ok Ill make a debating one next time
i just noticed that some of your threads make a statement and it is a bit uncertain or confusing what the point is, other than you sharing information. threads should ask posers something (like what is your opinion or beliefs on this, do you have advice for me, what are your experiences).

does that make sense?

* FeistyWench *
07-27-2006, 11:59 AM
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c396/Cero666/God.jpg
your title was a bit misleading, b.p.
there are a lot of religious thread already.
i almost didn't read it. :eek:

that was great :D

BrooklynBomber
07-27-2006, 12:00 PM
Hmmm....Got nothing against women being first and G-d being a woman. Then I got a chance to develop a special relationship with G-d, and it also will be easier for me to love her.

platinummatt
07-27-2006, 12:04 PM
Yeh I guess so can you give me some examples?

* FeistyWench *
07-27-2006, 12:16 PM
tho it would make much more sense to me if God is neither male or female.

The Noose
07-27-2006, 12:17 PM
Yeh I guess so can you give me some examples?
Id say, instead of "for believers and non believers"
It could of been. "How can we change the world?"

Or somthing.

And instead of preaching from the bible, maybe say how u feel wen watching the news, and ask how we can change things.

* FeistyWench *
07-27-2006, 12:19 PM
Id say, instead of "for believers and non believers"
It could of been. "How can we change the world?"

Or somthing.

And instead of preaching from the bible, maybe say how u feel wen watching the news, and ask how we can change things.
exactly...it opens a discussion for others to join, rather than just like a blog where you are just making a statement or sharing a sentiment.

BrooklynBomber
07-27-2006, 12:22 PM
tho it would make much more sense to me if God is neither male or female.
Yep, G-d is perfection, the Alpha and the Omega, it cant be neither man, nor woman, cause both are flawed.

The Noose
07-27-2006, 12:24 PM
your title was a bit misleading, b.p.
there are a lot of religious thread already.
i almost didn't read it. :eek:

that was great :D
True.
But u not reading one of my threads is blasphomey! And i wont stand for it.

* FeistyWench *
07-27-2006, 12:28 PM
Yep, G-d is perfection, the Alpha and the Omega, it cant be neither man, nor woman, cause both are flawed.
there is a difference between men and male AND women and female.
God certainly is NOT a human, nor do I believe that God looks human.

God is a being. I don't think of God as being male or female.

* FeistyWench *
07-27-2006, 12:30 PM
True.
But u not reading one of my threads is blasphomey! And i wont stand for it.
you started it when i was busy as hell and only had a moment or 2 online. I'M SORRY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The Noose
07-27-2006, 12:34 PM
there is a difference between men and male AND women and female.
God certainly is NOT a human, nor do I believe that God looks human.

God is a being. I don't think of God as being male or female.

I think of God as the ocean. Beyond right and wrong or good and bad. Basically indifferent. Kinda salty. And blue.

platinummatt
07-27-2006, 12:35 PM
The blog section. I can preach there! I see what you mean..

K-DOGG
07-27-2006, 01:17 PM
The blog section. I can preach there! I see what you mean..

Something to consider, too: maybe it isn't a good idea for you to "preach" just yet. I understand your desire to spread the word, so to speak; but most of the people who post here have already heard it and, odds are, they're not going to change their perspective from regurgitated gospel. Discusssions where you are willing to listent to other people's perspective and speaking from your soul and asking questions from the heart might be the method to use, instead of quoting scripture. If the meaning of the scripture resides within you, let yourself filter what it means to you and share that with others, rather than copying and pasting.

Just a thought.

platinummatt
07-27-2006, 02:12 PM
yeh I get it. Good Ideas

platinummatt
07-27-2006, 02:13 PM
very good..

Alpha Male
07-27-2006, 05:27 PM
Knowing and believing are one in the same. They are the same in nature, but different in application. Both are defined by perception. For example, I know that the sky is blue yet millions of years ago the color of the sky was called something else. People and their experiences based on perception define what we know. Ultimately, that emotion is carried into what we call a belief. For even though millions of people agree with me in that the sky is blue, we are all under a system of that belief. Knowing is just a solid foundation of a belief. Belief gives the impression of possible change while knowing is self defined within the mind of the individual, but the Truth is you can only seperate the two by the degree of individual perception. For we all beleive in something, but in actuality know nothing yet in perceptual reality know everything.

OptimusWolf
07-31-2006, 08:31 AM
Bloody hell alpha, you're a smart guy! I reckon you've got it spot on, but of course in making our decisions every second we have to act on our beliefs so the lines between perception and knowledge become blurred all of the time

platinummatt
07-31-2006, 11:51 AM
Bloody hell alpha, you're a smart guy! I reckon you've got it spot on, but of course in making our decisions every second we have to act on our beliefs so the lines between perception and knowledge become blurred all of the time
yeh alpha sounds pretty correct!

The Missing Lin
07-31-2006, 12:24 PM
Knowing and believing are one in the same. They are the same in nature, but different in application. Both are defined by perception. For example, I know that the sky is blue yet millions of years ago the color of the sky was called something else. People and their experiences based on perception define what we know. Ultimately, that emotion is carried into what we call a belief. For even though millions of people agree with me in that the sky is blue, we are all under a system of that belief. Knowing is just a solid foundation of a belief. Belief gives the impression of possible change while knowing is self defined within the mind of the individual, but the Truth is you can only seperate the two by the degree of individual perception. For we all beleive in something, but in actuality know nothing yet in perceptual reality know everything.
I know the sky is not blue. It only appears to be blue because blue has the shortest wavelength of all colors and is therefore seems "trapped" in the atmosphere.

phallus
07-31-2006, 07:24 PM
I think of God as the ocean. Beyond right and wrong or good and bad. Basically indifferent. Kinda salty. And blue.



but dude, kids piss in the ocean, fish do too

The Noose
07-31-2006, 08:03 PM
but dude, kids piss in the ocean, fish do too
Yea but i think God invented piss and pissing back in the 1950's.

K-DOGG
08-01-2006, 12:48 PM
there is a difference between men and male AND women and female.
God certainly is NOT a human, nor do I believe that God looks human.

God is a being. I don't think of God as being male or female.

Agreed; but I'll take it one step further. I believe God is both male and female as well as neither. I think men and women are equal representative halves of God's heart and soul, persay. If a man and a woman work together in perfect harmony, capitalizing on each other's strengths and compensating for each other's weaknesses, what you've got is a unit that is as close to an earthly representation of a singular God as you can get.

This, I feel, should be the goal of every true relationship....to bring out the very best in each other while swallowing individual pride for the betterment of the unit. This, I feel, was His/Her plan all along.....and the only way we can come even remotely close to understanding the nature of God.

platinummatt
08-02-2006, 10:14 AM
I believe its a place you go where you die if youve done as god wants.. I believe it will be a paradise etc.
Some people may believe its more like a state of mind.. as mentioned on south park..

If you believe in heaven, whats your opinion?

K-DOGG
08-02-2006, 12:43 PM
For me, it would be the answers to ALL of this life's mysteries...such as OUR real past and where we came from, all about lost civilizations, the reaches of the universe and every mystery therein.........THAT is heaven for me.

TheHoff!
08-02-2006, 12:48 PM
For me, it would be the answers to ALL of this life's mysteries...such as OUR real past and where we came from, all about lost civilizations, the reaches of the universe and every mystery therein.........THAT is heaven for me.
Sounds like an episode of Smallville...

Ta Khent
08-02-2006, 02:07 PM
If heaven to you is a utopian paradise, there are many questions you have to consider. For example:

- Can you wear clothes? If so, where can you get them(clothing
stores, thrift shops, ect)?
- Where would you live? Are there homes in heaven?
- What's the currency?
- Are there hot chicks? Can you have sex? Does the pre-marital sex
rule apply in heaven(being that you did what had to do to get there
in the first place)?
- Is there a God-Appointed Government?
- Do you pay taxes?
- What do you eat?

TheHoff!
08-02-2006, 02:30 PM
I wonder if heaven got a ghetto?
..............

K-DOGG
08-02-2006, 02:45 PM
Sounds like an episode of Smallville...

Haven't you ever wondered about Atlantis, the mountain carvings in Peru, the Pyramids and the "Pyramids and face on Mars, if we are actually decendents from a people from another world, Aliens, if there is a grand plan and what it is, if pro-wrestling is real, etc.?

Rockin'
08-02-2006, 03:05 PM
A place where everybody is considerate. Where they care for their neighbors and others in that world. A place where greed is set aside for more meaningfull ambitions, such as love and caring. A place where material posessions are not a factor but rather spirtual enhancement is the desire.

A place where the thunderdome would not be needed aswell as the words owned, pawned, tool etc. do not exist.

A place where Asian Sensation could strive for his dreams without being demeaning to anybody that crosses his path.

A place where people are kind and caring.

Who knows, we could be in heaven right now. But materialistic desires and greed taint what it is that god has given us. This could really be a great world all around. But human nature is not inclined to allow it. So we continue to be involved in war and degradation of the planet. We could already be there.....

Rockin' :boxing:

K-DOGG
08-02-2006, 03:17 PM
A place where everybody is considerate. Where they care for their neighbors and others in that world. A place where greed is set aside for more meaningfull ambitions, such as love and caring. A place where material posessions are not a factor but rather spirtual enhancement is the desire.

A place where the thunderdome would not be needed aswell as the words owned, pawned, tool etc. do not exist.

A place where Asian Sensation could strive for his dreams without being demeaning to anybody that crosses his path.

A place where people are kind and caring.

Who knows, we could be in heaven right now. But materialistic desires and greed taint what it is that god has given us. This could really be a great world all around. But human nature is not inclined to allow it. So we continue to be involved in war and degradation of the planet. We could already be there.....

Rockin' :boxing:


Brilliant Post Rockin'.....Freakin' Brillinat. K to you! ;)

TheHoff!
08-02-2006, 03:20 PM
Haven't you ever wondered about Atlantis, the mountain carvings in Peru, the Pyramids and the "Pyramids and face on Mars, if we are actually decendents from a people from another world, Aliens, if there is a grand plan and what it is, if pro-wrestling is real, etc.?
Nah, I always thought that Atlantis was just a myth and that anyone who questions whether the egyptians actually built the pyramids is denying them the credit they deserve for being the clever ****ers that they were. I think its pretty easy to find conspiracy theories in a lot of things but mostly theres logical answers. Probably aliens do exist but I laugh at the thought that we are the decendents of them and I dont believe in any kind of grand plan or the existence of God.

As for pro-wrestling, of course its real ;)

Dirt E Gomez
08-02-2006, 03:29 PM
A place where hot choclate flows in rivers and all of my friends and family are close by... since that's all that really matters.

K-DOGG
08-02-2006, 03:33 PM
Nah, I always thought that Atlantis was just a myth and that anyone who questions whether the egyptians actually built the pyramids is denying them the credit they deserve for being the clever ****ers that they were. I think its pretty easy to find conspiracy theories in a lot of things but mostly theres logical answers. Probably aliens do exist but I laugh at the thought that we are the decendents of them and I dont believe in any kind of grand plan or the existence of God.

As for pro-wrestling, of course its real ;)

*chuckles* Fair enough. ;)

TheHoff!
08-02-2006, 03:33 PM
A place where hot choclate flows in rivers and all of my friends and family are close by... since that's all that really matters.
What painting is it in your sig? Who painted it?

Dirt E Gomez
08-02-2006, 03:37 PM
What painting is it in your sig? Who painted it?

Georges Seurat. Pointilism, he more famously did Sunday Afternoon on the Island of la Grande Jatte, which is the massive painting at the Chicago Art Institute. This is Bathers At Asnieres.

TheHoff!
08-02-2006, 03:44 PM
Georges Seurat. Pointilism, he more famously did Sunday Afternoon on the Island of la Grande Jatte, which is the massive painting at the Chicago Art Institute. This is Bathers At Asnieres.
Thanks. I really like it. Pointlism is like using dots to make a painting right? I'ma go do a search for that sunday afternoon on the island now.

Dirt E Gomez
08-02-2006, 03:47 PM
Thanks. I really like it. Pointlism is like using dots to make a painting right? I'ma go do a search for that sunday afternoon on the island now.

Aye, I like Sunday Afternoon on the Island of la Grande Jatte more but I didn't want to shrink it down to a size I find suitable for my signature because it would lose too much of its detail and such.

* FeistyWench *
08-02-2006, 04:00 PM
what i really think of a heaven and what i would like for heaven to be are 2 different things. i have read alot on different perspectives on "heaven". Nonetheless, the most appealing and simplistic (sadly) comes from a 1987 chick flick "Made in Heaven". :o I would like heaven to be similar to that.

K-DOGG
08-02-2006, 04:10 PM
what i really think of a heaven and what i would like for heaven to be are 2 different things. i have read alot on different perspectives on "heaven", but the most appealing and simplistic comes from a 1987 chick flick "Made in Heaven". I would like heaven to be similar to that.


Yeah, I should have made that clarification on my post. My post describes what I would like, not what I believe is....of course, I'm just going on what I've read, so, there ya go.

Hard Boiled HK
08-02-2006, 08:06 PM
A place where hot choclate flows in rivers and all of my friends and family are close by... since that's all that really matters.

Very nice post. Deep down inside having our family and real friends being close by is all that really matters to us, whether you realize it or not. But you will.

The Noose
08-02-2006, 08:55 PM
For me, it would be the answers to ALL of this life's mysteries...such as OUR real past and where we came from, all about lost civilizations, the reaches of the universe and every mystery therein.........THAT is heaven for me.

But then when you have all the answers, then what?

I would have thought the mystery is what makes these things so attractive.
I mean, when you reach the top of the mountain and admire the view. There is nothing else to do except go down.

Isnt heaven eternal?

The Noose
08-02-2006, 09:03 PM
Does anyone ever have those moments when u have absolute perspective on your present moment, and realise how ****ing great life is.
Maybe just when ur strolling down the street, and chilling with a friend or your children or parents.
And u think this is so ****ing cool.

More than just contentment, but really appreciating your little life. Those fleeting moments.
That is my notion of what heaven is. The little things.


Also, i belive the greatest experince of joy comes after the hardest darkest times. You usually have to experience one to appreciate the other. So i dont believe in the eternal heavenly afterlife thing.

* FeistyWench *
08-02-2006, 09:18 PM
Does anyone ever have those moments when u have absolute perspective on your present moment, and realise how ****ing great life is.
Maybe just when ur strolling down the street, and chilling with a friend or your children or parents.
And u think this is so ****ing cool.

More than just contentment, but really appreciating your little life. Those fleeting moments.
That is my notion of what heaven is. The little things.


Also, i belive the greatest experince of joy comes after the hardest darkest times. You usually have to experience one to appreciate the other. So i dont believe in the eternal heavenly afterlife thing.
i have had those moments throughout my life and I call them my perfect BLISS. They don't last long but for that moment in life, I have 110% contentment, peace, and bliss - a perfect appreciation for life - all else is put into perspective. i must admit that my most blissful moment was right after my son was born and i was able to just hold him and stare at him in the hospital room.

platinummatt
08-03-2006, 09:06 AM
awwwwwwwwwwwwww.... Yeh that sounds pretty dmn cool bobby

The Noose
08-03-2006, 10:46 AM
i have had those moments throughout my life and I call them my perfect BLISS. They don't last long but for that moment in life, I have 110% contentment, peace, and bliss - a perfect appreciation for life - all else is put into perspective. i must admit that my most blissful moment was right after my son was born and i was able to just hold him and stare at him in the hospital room.

Yea, that must be somthing else.


For me its usually lots of stupid little **** that stops me realising how good it all is. Or somtimes only wen ur at ur lowest that things become clear.

* FeistyWench *
08-03-2006, 11:09 AM
Yea, that must be somthing else.


For me its usually lots of stupid little **** that stops me realising how good it all is. Or somtimes only wen ur at ur lowest that things become clear.
very true. my bliss has come at the strangest times. sometimes it is after hearing about someone else's pain or if i just escaped a near-death situation or something. sometimes it has just been sitting there staring at a beautiful blue sky and realizing just how beautiful the earth is or just sitting and taking it all in (kinda that take time to stop and smell the roses thing). sometimes, i just wake up that way. just happy to be alive.

The Coagulator
08-03-2006, 11:13 AM
very true. my bliss has come at the strangest times. sometimes it is after hearing about someone else's pain or if i just escaped a near-death situation or something. sometimes it has just been sitting there staring at a beautiful blue sky and realizing just how beautiful the earth is or just sitting and taking it all in (kinda that take time to stop and smell the roses thing). sometimes, i just wake up that way. just happy to be alive.

for God's sake you people are killing me....beautiful sky...please...filled with pollution

The Coagulator
08-03-2006, 11:16 AM
I believe its a place you go where you die if youve done as god wants.. I believe it will be a paradise etc.
Some people may believe its more like a state of mind.. as mentioned on south park..

If you believe in heaven, whats your opinion?

is leaving behind children who are functionable loving caring people who miss me

The Noose
08-03-2006, 11:58 AM
very true. my bliss has come at the strangest times. sometimes it is after hearing about someone else's pain or if i just escaped a near-death situation or something. sometimes it has just been sitting there staring at a beautiful blue sky and realizing just how beautiful the earth is or just sitting and taking it all in (kinda that take time to stop and smell the roses thing). sometimes, i just wake up that way. just happy to be alive.

Stupid things become very precious when u come close to losing them.

K-DOGG
08-03-2006, 01:30 PM
Does anyone ever have those moments when u have absolute perspective on your present moment, and realise how ****ing great life is.
Maybe just when ur strolling down the street, and chilling with a friend or your children or parents.
And u think this is so ****ing cool.

More than just contentment, but really appreciating your little life. Those fleeting moments.
That is my notion of what heaven is. The little things.


Also, i belive the greatest experince of joy comes after the hardest darkest times. You usually have to experience one to appreciate the other. So i dont believe in the eternal heavenly afterlife thing.


Yeah, I call those "moments of clarity", those moments when everything makes sense and you can feel it and nothing bad really matters because in the great scheme of things, those are just pot holes on the road of life, so to speak.....they occur far to intermitently for my taste.

* FeistyWench *
08-03-2006, 02:46 PM
for God's sake you people are killing me....beautiful sky...please...filled with pollution
hey you! listen, where i live i there is no pollution. it's nature at it's finest baby. and yes, the sky is quite blue and the stars are incredibly brillant. you need to get out of the city. lol! ;) :p

K-DOGG
08-03-2006, 03:00 PM
hey you! listen, where i live i there is no pollution. it's nature at it's finest baby. and yes, the sky is quite blue and the stars are incredibly brillant. you need to get out of the city. lol! ;) :p

True that. Nothing refreshes my soul like taking a drive in the country, down the backroads, and walking along the creeks and streams to the music of the crickets, frogs, and katydids. Mother Nature will caress you and "make it go away", comforting you in her loving arms...if you let her. There's nothing better on this earth than that.

Ta Khent
09-07-2006, 02:42 AM
As I read some of the stories in the Old Testament, my comprehension only leads me to believe that the Lord God in reference was an actual man, not some mystical force.

He was heard walking like a man by adam and eve. He talked like a man. He even ate like a man. When the people brought animals to the alter to burn them for sacrifice, that is exactly like putting meat on the grill to cook. When the animals were cooked, who ate them if they were brought to the Lord God? He has emotions like man. He gets angry and jealous. He is vain. He assisted in wars and destruction of his own alleged creation.

So, with all these characteristics of man, why can't a powerful force of energy seperate himself from the lower qualities of man?

My whole point is that either they took an omni being and made him a man or they took a man and made him an omni being. But it is impossible for him to be both. He is either one or the other. For if he is an omni being, he can't be subject to man's level and if he is a man, he can't be subject to the powers of the omni being. Therefore, the Old Testament is a fabricated story that has been exaggerated to conform to Mans illusional creativity.

The Missing Lin
09-07-2006, 01:39 PM
It's a charactor in a book, nothing more.

K-DOGG
09-07-2006, 03:41 PM
As I read some of the stories in the Old Testament, my comprehension only leads me to believe that the Lord God in reference was an actual man, not some mystical force.

He was heard walking like a man by adam and eve. He talked like a man. He even ate like a man. When the people brought animals to the alter to burn them for sacrifice, that is exactly like putting meat on the grill to cook. When the animals were cooked, who ate them if they were brought to the Lord God? He has emotions like man. He gets angry and jealous. He is vain. He assisted in wars and destruction of his own alleged creation.

So, with all these characteristics of man, why can't a powerful force of energy seperate himself from the lower qualities of man?

My whole point is that either they took an omni being and made him a man or they took a man and made him an omni being. But it is impossible for him to be both. He is either one or the other. For if he is an omni being, he can't be subject to man's level and if he is a man, he can't be subject to the powers of the omni being. Therefore, the Old Testament is a fabricated story that has been exaggerated to conform to Mans illusional creativity.

Clever as always, Merovingian.

I don't think it's beyond the realm of reason to believe that the recently freed Hebrews "personalized" their God the same way all ancient cultures did. As you know, according to the Old Testament, the Hebrews/Israelites were imprisoned by both the Egyptians and the Babylonians and traits from those two civilizations deities can be found in the Old Testament God.

Allow me to throw this chain of thought into the mix:

If the man, Jesus, had never lived and never inspired so many to follow his teachings, you and I wouldn't be having this conversation provided we weren't Jewish for the "Old Testament" would be chalked up as a belief system followed by the Jews and the Jews alone and no non-Jew would care one whit.

Because Jesus sprang from the nation of Israel at a time when the Romans occupied the nation and had built roads for easy access all round their Empire, the people of the early first century A.D. heard of the life and works of Jesus and believed him to be the one prophesied about in the Old Testament, as his disciples told them, thus popularizing the stories in the "Old Testament" among the new believers, who were by and large "gentiles" and had no connection to Judaeism.

Take Jesus out of the equation and you and I are more than likely following whatever "pagan" religion our ancestors followed.....and, for that matter, Muhammad never would have become or professed himself to be a "prophet" and Islam would never have come into existance.

All of this from one man....that's pretty amazing.

The Noose
09-07-2006, 10:36 PM
Clever as always, Merovingian.

I don't think it's beyond the realm of reason to believe that the recently freed Hebrews "personalized" their God the same way all ancient cultures did. As you know, according to the Old Testament, the Hebrews/Israelites were imprisoned by both the Egyptians and the Babylonians and traits from those two civilizations deities can be found in the Old Testament God.

Allow me to throw this chain of thought into the mix:

If the man, Jesus, had never lived and never inspired so many to follow his teachings, you and I wouldn't be having this conversation provided we weren't Jewish for the "Old Testament" would be chalked up as a belief system followed by the Jews and the Jews alone and no non-Jew would care one whit.

Because Jesus sprang from the nation of Israel at a time when the Romans occupied the nation and had built roads for easy access all round their Empire, the people of the early first century A.D. heard of the life and works of Jesus and believed him to be the one prophesied about in the Old Testament, as his disciples told them, thus popularizing the stories in the "Old Testament" among the new believers, who were by and large "gentiles" and had no connection to Judaeism.

Take Jesus out of the equation and you and I are more than likely following whatever "pagan" religion our ancestors followed.....and, for that matter, Muhammad never would have become or professed himself to be a "prophet" and Islam would never have come into existance.

All of this from one man....that's pretty amazing.


I dont know **** compared to u 2.
But its all intersting to me.

As for the old testament god, it reminds me of how artists personified characters such as "father" time, depicted as the old guy with a big white beard. Or did portraits of Greek mythological figures in allegories, like Mars and Venus, the god of war and goddess of love getting it on.

As for Jesus. Surely Christianity has the Romans inforcing it to thank.

K-DOGG
09-07-2006, 10:54 PM
As for Jesus. Surely Christianity has the Romans inforcing it to thank.

That's a fair assessment. What's odd is Constantine never converted to Christianity during his life....it was only on his death bed, even though he "unified" the Empire through Christianity. Quite an intelligent bit of propoganda, actually.....but Christianity had already spread by that point and Constantine knew it, so to hold the Empire together, he made it official....and the end result was the unified Christianity became the Catholic church with one set of doctrines, whereas before you could go to 20 different "churches" and find 20 different set of scriptures and philosophies. In the end, the gnostics were called heretics and their doctrines abolished.

Sad, really. Christianity today is only half the story. :(

The Noose
09-07-2006, 11:46 PM
That's a fair assessment. What's odd is Constantine never converted to Christianity during his life....it was only on his death bed, even though he "unified" the Empire through Christianity. Quite an intelligent bit of propoganda, actually.....but Christianity had already spread by that point and Constantine knew it, so to hold the Empire together, he made it official....and the end result was the unified Christianity became the Catholic church with one set of doctrines, whereas before you could go to 20 different "churches" and find 20 different set of scriptures and philosophies. In the end, the gnostics were called heretics and their doctrines abolished.

Sad, really. Christianity today is only half the story. :(

Wat kind of texts were they? Do u think the destroyed doctrines told us much more about Jesus?

Thats one of the things i dont understand about belivers in a religon. With so much history, distortion, translation, corruption, and polotics, how do u know wat really happened or how much of wat u believe is true?

K-DOGG
09-08-2006, 12:01 AM
Wat kind of texts were they? Do u think the destroyed doctrines told us much more about Jesus?

Thats one of the things i dont understand about belivers in a religon. With so much history, distortion, translation, corruption, and polotics, how do u know wat really happened or how much of wat u believe is true?


In the answer to the first part, books that were excluded include "The Gospel of Thomas", "The Gospel of Mary-Magaline", "The Gospel of Stephen"...I think; and they recently finished translating "The Gospel of Judas" of all things...though I have read part of this one and it seems more of a propaganda piece, in all honesty....which kind of leans to your second question.

How do you know what to believe? Well, for me, I used to believe all of it; and then had a crisis of faith in my mid to late 20's. I still "believed" in the essentials, persay; but didn't know what to believe specifically because I'd studied the history of how the Bible and various denominations came to be, etc., etc.

What I've tried to do is learn as many "known facts" as I can and apply them when I read texts. For example, as I alluded to earlier, the "Gospel of Judas" appears to be a propoganda piece against the soon to be "Catholic" church and has the overall "feel" of someone trying to tell Judas's side of the story in some attempt to paint their own portrait of Judas which is contrary to all other accounts. From the recognized New Testament, so far I've gone over Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John with a fine tooth comb and have found the first three to be in compliance with the "spirit of Jesus", so to speak; but have my reservations concerning the book of John, as it seems to be more of a Catholic propaganda piece.....I came to this conclusion because on several occassions, Jesus refers to the Pharasies and Saducies as "the Jews"....why would Jesus, who is Jewish, refer to other Jews as "the Jews"? It makes no sense; it's like me referring to my friends as the "whites" or "the blacks" or "the Amercans", etc.

What I try to do, in general, it take the general "feel" of what Jesus was trying to get across and live by it. As of now, I haven't gone to church or organized services in over 10 years. I kind of want to; but fear I would butt heads with someone over an article of faith that is incorrect historically...and I don't want to cast doubt in any one's mind who believes.

So, it is kind of tricky with me, personally.

K-DOGG
09-08-2006, 12:04 AM
...Oh, to clarify on the "what kinds of texts were they" question: in most cases, they were gnostic gospels, which were practiced predominantly in Egypt and the regioion around. Several have been rediscovered in the "Dead Sea Scrolls" and in caves along the Nile.

The Noose
09-08-2006, 01:08 AM
Ah ha. I see.

It sure is tricky. I was born a catholic (sorry if im repeating myself here), and had faith as much as a kid can until i was 17 wen i went to college and met people of all different faiths.
With all the discussions and arguing about who is right or historically proven etc, i just always wonder how people can believe so certainly in their religion when we rely on the words of others from so long ago.


I can understand belief in a god because it requires only your faith. But religion has evidence and history to take into acount.
I always feel if people who find Jesus were born elsewhere they would find another messiah or god.

Dr.Depravity
09-08-2006, 01:30 AM
The old Testiment is...well, basically Judaism with a new flair the beginning of Christianity. I think the only people who take it seriously are Baptist. Its only real use is to keep kids in Sunday school busy for an hour.

Ta Khent
09-08-2006, 11:45 AM
Clever as always, Merovingian.

I don't think it's beyond the realm of reason to believe that the recently freed Hebrews "personalized" their God the same way all ancient cultures did. As you know, according to the Old Testament, the Hebrews/Israelites were imprisoned by both the Egyptians and the Babylonians and traits from those two civilizations deities can be found in the Old Testament God.

Allow me to throw this chain of thought into the mix:

If the man, Jesus, had never lived and never inspired so many to follow his teachings, you and I wouldn't be having this conversation provided we weren't Jewish for the "Old Testament" would be chalked up as a belief system followed by the Jews and the Jews alone and no non-Jew would care one whit.

Because Jesus sprang from the nation of Israel at a time when the Romans occupied the nation and had built roads for easy access all round their Empire, the people of the early first century A.D. heard of the life and works of Jesus and believed him to be the one prophesied about in the Old Testament, as his disciples told them, thus popularizing the stories in the "Old Testament" among the new believers, who were by and large "gentiles" and had no connection to Judaeism.

Take Jesus out of the equation and you and I are more than likely following whatever "pagan" religion our ancestors followed.....and, for that matter, Muhammad never would have become or professed himself to be a "prophet" and Islam would never have come into existance.

All of this from one man....that's pretty amazing.



This is where you and I disagree. I believe the story of Jesus was created in order to unite the Roman Empire under one religion. Prior to the adoption of Christianity, Mithraism was heavily practiced in Rome and other surrounding countries.

Other than the Bible, there are no non-biblical references to the existence of Jesus eventhough there were several notable Jewish historians living during the supposed life of Jesus. As you know, Jesus shares many characterisitics with pagan dieties of several ancient cultures particularly Mithra and Horus which preceeded Christianity by centuries. The difference is that Jesus was given human qualities. Also, many of the miracles performed by Jesus defy the natural and physical laws that make up our Earth and the Universe. So, if Jesus were in fact a man, it would be impossible for him to perform these miracles for man cannot supercede natural law. Lastly, many of the biblical references to Jesus are not eye-witness nor first-hand accounts. They were written long after Jesus' supposed death.

Based on this and many other historical and archeological inaccuracies, I can only conlcude that the story of Jesus and many other stories referenced in the Bible are not true.

BrooklynBomber
09-08-2006, 03:05 PM
This is where you and I disagree. I believe the story of Jesus was created in order to unite the Roman Empire under one religion. Prior to the adoption of Christianity, Mithraism was heavily practiced in Rome and other surrounding countries.

Other than the Bible, there are no non-biblical references to the existence of Jesus eventhough there were several notable Jewish historians living during the supposed life of Jesus. As you know, Jesus shares many characterisitics with pagan dieties of several ancient cultures particularly Mithra and Horus which preceeded Christianity by centuries. The difference is that Jesus was given human qualities. Also, many of the miracles performed by Jesus defy the natural and physical laws that make up our Earth and the Universe. So, if Jesus were in fact a man, it would be impossible for him to perform these miracles for man cannot supercede natural law. Lastly, many of the biblical references to Jesus are not eye-witness nor first-hand accounts. They were written long after Jesus' supposed death.

Based on this and many other historical and archeological inaccuracies, I can only conlcude that the story of Jesus and many other stories referenced in the Bible are not true.
Me being Jewish, I had conversations with a couple of jewish historians/rabbies that actually informed me that in their reading they stumbled on a man that can be described as Jesus, he was no G-d, obviously but a traveling doctor, who was helping people for free, and obviously, a person who helps people for free has a philosophy that one can describe as benevolent.
IT may be true that roman emperor just made a symbol out of that guy to unify the country.
Its been done so many times after, that it can be very believable.
Good example would be terrorists today, I bet that if the country over the course of time will be ruled bu religious zealots, the situation we have today would be described as a fight between demons and angels/saints.

K-DOGG
09-08-2006, 04:15 PM
Me being Jewish, I had conversations with a couple of jewish historians/rabbies that actually informed me that in their reading they stumbled on a man that can be described as Jesus, he was no G-d, obviously but a traveling doctor, who was helping people for free, and obviously, a person who helps people for free has a philosophy that one can describe as benevolent.
IT may be true that roman emperor just made a symbol out of that guy to unify the country.
Its been done so many times after, that it can be very believable.
Good example would be terrorists today, I bet that if the country over the course of time will be ruled bu religious zealots, the situation we have today would be described as a fight between demons and angels/saints.

Thanks for the insight from a Jewish perspective.

BrooklynBomber
09-08-2006, 04:48 PM
Thanks for the insight from a Jewish perspective.
But yet again, maybe Jesus did exist, but I think that if you really have the faith, you dont need any proof or evidence.

K-DOGG
09-08-2006, 04:56 PM
This is where you and I disagree. I believe the story of Jesus was created in order to unite the Roman Empire under one religion. Prior to the adoption of Christianity, Mithraism was heavily practiced in Rome and other surrounding countries.

Other than the Bible, there are no non-biblical references to the existence of Jesus eventhough there were several notable Jewish historians living during the supposed life of Jesus. As you know, Jesus shares many characterisitics with pagan dieties of several ancient cultures particularly Mithra and Horus which preceeded Christianity by centuries. The difference is that Jesus was given human qualities. Also, many of the miracles performed by Jesus defy the natural and physical laws that make up our Earth and the Universe. So, if Jesus were in fact a man, it would be impossible for him to perform these miracles for man cannot supercede natural law. Lastly, many of the biblical references to Jesus are not eye-witness nor first-hand accounts. They were written long after Jesus' supposed death.

Based on this and many other historical and archeological inaccuracies, I can only conlcude that the story of Jesus and many other stories referenced in the Bible are not true.

Are you sure Josephus never made mention of him?

I'm pretty sure his existance as a man has been confirmed by several sources; but can't site any of them at the moment.

Anyway, the similarities with Horus and Isis are defintely there with Jesus and Mary, so I'll give you that; but I always interpreted the popularization of Christianity among the Romans a step to rid the empire of the growing cult of Isis....which also explains the amount of emphasis put on Jesus's mother.....the former Isis worshippers could more closely identify with the "mother and child deity" concept....but that's probably your argument in reverse.

Oh well.

K-DOGG
09-08-2006, 05:13 PM
But yet again, maybe Jesus did exist, but I think that if you really have the faith, you dont need any proof or evidence.


Possibbly so; and a valid point. However, my personal make-up thrives on proof and my anal retentiveness wants to know "exactly" what happened and how it really went down...so, it's more of a personal quest than something my faith really depends on...it just helps me to know the "facts" of a thing or event. My faith in God is not based on anything other than belief that he/she does exist, did create the universe, man, etc.

But, where texts, such as the bible, are concerned...I do like to know where man stuck his nose in and why, and what the effects of it were. It's just my nature.

K-DOGG
09-08-2006, 08:33 PM
Ah ha. I see.

It sure is tricky. I was born a catholic (sorry if im repeating myself here), and had faith as much as a kid can until i was 17 wen i went to college and met people of all different faiths.
With all the discussions and arguing about who is right or historically proven etc, i just always wonder how people can believe so certainly in their religion when we rely on the words of others from so long ago.


I can understand belief in a god because it requires only your faith. But religion has evidence and history to take into acount.
I always feel if people who find Jesus were born elsewhere they would find another messiah or god.


I completely agree with what I emboldened in your quote, Bobby. I tried selling my mom on that thought a couple of years ago...she's a devout Christian....and she wouldn't have any of it...but, that's me mum. :D

Most people who are staunch believers don't want to examine the possibility that some of what they believe is historically inaccurate, and that's fine I guess, since it doesn't really hurt anything or anyone to believe a guy build a really big boat and carried all of the animals around on it during the Mother of all Rain Storms....or that a snake tricked a woman into eating a piece of fruit. Where's the harm? There is none, not really.

Ta Khent
09-08-2006, 11:02 PM
Are you sure Josephus never made mention of him?

I'm pretty sure his existance as a man has been confirmed by several sources; but can't site any of them at the moment.

Anyway, the similarities with Horus and Isis are defintely there with Jesus and Mary, so I'll give you that; but I always interpreted the popularization of Christianity among the Romans a step to rid the empire of the growing cult of Isis....which also explains the amount of emphasis put on Jesus's mother.....the former Isis worshippers could more closely identify with the "mother and child deity" concept....but that's probably your argument in reverse.

Oh well.


In Josephus's "Antiquities of the Jews" appears a brief and simplistic passage regarding Jesus. However, under intense scrutiny by many scholars, this passage is universally recognized as a forgery, likely interpolated by Catholic Church historian Eusebius. He only refers to Jesus as "wise man". If Josephus had thought so highly of an historical Jesus, he surely would have written more extensively about him. Yet, he does not.

K-DOGG
09-09-2006, 04:33 PM
In Josephus's "Antiquities of the Jews" appears a brief and simplistic passage regarding Jesus. However, under intense scrutiny by many scholars, this passage is universally recognized as a forgery, likely interpolated by Catholic Church historian Eusebius. He only refers to Jesus as "wise man". If Josephus had thought so highly of an historical Jesus, he surely would have written more extensively about him. Yet, he does not.

Fair enough; but of course Josephus wouldn't "think highly of him", being of the Jewish faith and seeing as how Jesus was a "rogue rabbi" so to speak, who departed from traditional Judaeism.

Still, the possibility of forgery does not surprise me.

K-DOGG
09-09-2006, 04:42 PM
Getting back to the original topic of the thread as to whether or not the Old Testament "God" was in reality based on an individual, I would say the odds are against it.

I do believe, however, that it is possible that certain "human traits" were assigned to "him".

Dempsey 1919
09-19-2006, 11:00 AM
As I read some of the stories in the Old Testament, my comprehension only leads me to believe that the Lord God in reference was an actual man, not some mystical force.

He was heard walking like a man by adam and eve. He talked like a man. He even ate like a man. When the people brought animals to the alter to burn them for sacrifice, that is exactly like putting meat on the grill to cook. When the animals were cooked, who ate them if they were brought to the Lord God? He has emotions like man. He gets angry and jealous. He is vain. He assisted in wars and destruction of his own alleged creation.

So, with all these characteristics of man, why can't a powerful force of energy seperate himself from the lower qualities of man?

My whole point is that either they took an omni being and made him a man or they took a man and made him an omni being. But it is impossible for him to be both. He is either one or the other. For if he is an omni being, he can't be subject to man's level and if he is a man, he can't be subject to the powers of the omni being. Therefore, the Old Testament is a fabricated story that has been exaggerated to conform to Mans illusional creativity.

The bible says that God made man "IN HIS OWN IMAGE". So man and God have some of the same characteristics because that's how he made us.

Dempsey 1919
09-19-2006, 11:02 AM
This is where you and I disagree. I believe the story of Jesus was created in order to unite the Roman Empire under one religion. Prior to the adoption of Christianity, Mithraism was heavily practiced in Rome and other surrounding countries.

Other than the Bible, there are no non-biblical references to the existence of Jesus eventhough there were several notable Jewish historians living during the supposed life of Jesus. As you know, Jesus shares many characterisitics with pagan dieties of several ancient cultures particularly Mithra and Horus which preceeded Christianity by centuries. The difference is that Jesus was given human qualities. Also, many of the miracles performed by Jesus defy the natural and physical laws that make up our Earth and the Universe. So, if Jesus were in fact a man, it would be impossible for him to perform these miracles for man cannot supercede natural law. Lastly, many of the biblical references to Jesus are not eye-witness nor first-hand accounts. They were written long after Jesus' supposed death.

Based on this and many other historical and archeological inaccuracies, I can only conlcude that the story of Jesus and many other stories referenced in the Bible are not true.

You've got to be on crack. There are many secular references to that Jesus existed. Let me ask you something. Do you work for the ACLU?

Ta Khent
09-19-2006, 06:22 PM
The bible says that God made man "IN HIS OWN IMAGE". So man and God have some of the same characteristics because that's how he made us.


Then that would make God a man. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Ta Khent
09-19-2006, 06:26 PM
You've got to be on crack. There are many secular references to that Jesus existed. Let me ask you something. Do you work for the ACLU?


If you have them, please provide them (which I highly doubt). If the Catholic Church can't provide them, what makes you think you can?

The Noose
09-20-2006, 07:01 PM
You've got to be on crack. There are many secular references to that Jesus existed. Let me ask you something. Do you work for the ACLU?

There are many arguments for and against the existance of Jesus.
His existance is one thing, but to say he was the son of God is another.

I can never understand how people believe, yet many have tried explaining.
I find it interesting.

Ta Khent
09-21-2006, 11:12 PM
There are many arguments for and against the existance of Jesus.
His existance is one thing, but to say he was the son of God is another.

I can never understand how people believe, yet many have tried explaining.
I find it interesting.



Blind belief, whether in God or anything else, is not only ridiculous and immature, it is dangerous, as is evidenced by the countless murders and atrocities committed by believers over the millennia, and by violent acts that will continue to be committed so long as people think it is virtuous and righteous to believe in an anthropomorphic god who is separate from themselves. Such an opinion is not virtuous at all; on the contrary, it is lowly and base, and the mark of a poor intellect.

Belief in God is not a sign of piety and godliness but of ignorance and incomplete realization and evolution of consciousness. No person drowned in belief and delusion can be whole, can be his or her own authority. Any such person is controllable by outside authority, cannot think for him or herself, and does not move on his or her own authenticity. He or she is not autonomous. He or she is not free. Such a person is not in tune with the force of creation and is therefore not creative. The center of creativity of a believer is clogged up and closed down.

platinummatt!
09-22-2006, 11:15 AM
Thank you lord for letting me feel the sun again,
Thank you lord for letting me feel the rain again,
Even though my day may have been flecked with pain,
Thank you lord for my lease of another day.

Thank you lord for letting me walk a few more steps,
Thank you lord for letting me speak a few more words,
Thank you lord for letting me write a few more lines,
Thank you lord for this gift you have given named time.

Thank you lord for letting me see,
Thank you lord for letting me breathe so easily,
Thank you lord for letting me hear,
Thank you lord. Iím lucky to be hear

Thank you lord for letting me feel,
Thank you lord for letting me heal
Thank you lord for letting me taste,
And letting me walk without so much haste.

Thank you lord for my family,
I know some arenít as lucky as me,
Thank you lord for the flowers and the trees,
And for the birds in the sky,
And the fish in the seas,

Thank you lord for my pet dog, who always smiles
And is rarely glum,
Thank you lord for the colours on the canvas,
And the cloud in the sky,

Thank you lord for the painting you make,
The dance on the ice,
The swim in the lake,

A thousand thoughts are in my mind,
So many things I can say,
Lord thank you for the life you give,
And I plead,
For a few more days.

K-DOGG
09-22-2006, 01:47 PM
Blind belief, whether in God or anything else, is not only ridiculous and immature, it is dangerous, as is evidenced by the countless murders and atrocities committed by believers over the millennia, and by violent acts that will continue to be committed so long as people think it is virtuous and righteous to believe in an anthropomorphic god who is separate from themselves. Such an opinion is not virtuous at all; on the contrary, it is lowly and base, and the mark of a poor intellect.

Belief in God is not a sign of piety and godliness but of ignorance and incomplete realization and evolution of consciousness. No person drowned in belief and delusion can be whole, can be his or her own authority. Any such person is controllable by outside authority, cannot think for him or herself, and does not move on his or her own authenticity. He or she is not autonomous. He or she is not free. Such a person is not in tune with the force of creation and is therefore not creative. The center of creativity of a believer is clogged up and closed down.

Not necessarily. ;)

The Noose
09-22-2006, 04:14 PM
Blind belief, whether in God or anything else, is not only ridiculous and immature, it is dangerous, as is evidenced by the countless murders and atrocities committed by believers over the millennia, and by violent acts that will continue to be committed so long as people think it is virtuous and righteous to believe in an anthropomorphic god who is separate from themselves. Such an opinion is not virtuous at all; on the contrary, it is lowly and base, and the mark of a poor intellect.

Belief in God is not a sign of piety and godliness but of ignorance and incomplete realization and evolution of consciousness. No person drowned in belief and delusion can be whole, can be his or her own authority. Any such person is controllable by outside authority, cannot think for him or herself, and does not move on his or her own authenticity. He or she is not autonomous. He or she is not free. Such a person is not in tune with the force of creation and is therefore not creative. The center of creativity of a believer is clogged up and closed down.

Wat is ur story?
:confused:

Its one thing to have an opinion, but u seem to have a kind of anti-christian thing going on, judging by ur sig.

Anyone who believes in god is ignorant, immature and is not 'free'?? Thats a wee bit over the top.
Im not a beliver, but IMO some people can do great things and see the world in a wonderful way through their faith in their god.

platinummatt!
09-22-2006, 09:31 PM
they merged my poem

SonnyG8R
09-22-2006, 10:07 PM
they merged my poem


No offense. We had like 10 different religion threads. It was time to consolidate.

platinummatt!
09-22-2006, 10:27 PM
its a poem / religion lets make a poetry thread

SonnyG8R
09-22-2006, 10:46 PM
its a poem / religion lets make a poetry thread


I have no problem with a poetry thread.

MANGLER
01-04-2010, 03:41 AM
I ain't religious at all.