Is a punch from the core or also from other muscles? Example; if person A bring their bench up from 155 to 255 with no heavy bag work and person B doesn't bench and hits a punching bag starting 50 lbs and works it up to hitting and working on a 150 lb. bag in the same amount of time as person A, who will have a stronger punch?

In most cases the guy that hits the heavy bag.

i agree the one who hits bag has more power

Which one would have faster hands?

And this is if Person A didn't gain weight and bulk, but instead maintained and gained strength.

i think the person with the bag would have faster hands also

person on the bag would have the harder punch and the faster hands

person on the bag would have the harder punch and the faster hands
What Hatton's Number 1 Fan said.. :D

i'll add a bit of insight since i used to do weightlifting frequently when i was younger.

punching is a specific function of the body. weightlifting is a specific function of the body. they are two very, very different functions.

weightlifting, of course, will generally help you lift more weight. depending on what type of lifting exercises, they may not have much benefit to add to the science of punching. for example, bodybuilding type lifting isolates muscles to develop a certain look as opposed to certain lifting programs(like most kettlebell exercises) which combine lifting of weight with muscle coordination - the opposite of bodybuilding.

my view, if you want a good punch, work on punching. if you want to be able to lift more weight, work on weight lifting - the type of lifting strongmen competitors do. if you just want a ripped body, adopt a bodybuilding regimine.

Is a punch from the core or also from other muscles?

a good solid punch is the result of coordinating the movement of your entire body(using the right timing with no excessive tension, alignment, etc) onto your fist in a fraction of a second through an explosive movement. punches where the power is generated from just the triceps or shoulders are far less effective than ones that are used with the whole body.

J, that's my view on it too. To have stronger punches, you gotta practice punching. To have a strong bench, you gotta bench.

But I asked this because people who box and lift weights say they lift because they can have stronger punches. And that used to confuse me since it's not that relevant to a strong punch.

thats very true, and if people say they want to inprove their punch with weights thats not going to work but I do some weights to inprove endurance without bulking and slowing me down, also to get ripped :D

J, that's my view on it too. To have stronger punches, you gotta practice punching. To have a strong bench, you gotta bench.

But I asked this because people who box and lift weights say they lift because they can have stronger punches. And that used to confuse me since it's not that relevant to a strong punch.

See, you're missing that final one in your scenario: The guy who puts in the extra work. The guy who does both. He will have the best punch. If their starting point is the same, or if it's the same theoretical guy. ;)

when u first start out dont lift weight cause u need to deveolp good technique and lifting may cause slow,stiff punches and u can lose ur angles on ur shots. When ur good then yes u sud do weights and yes once u have good technique weights will def increase ur power if u work the correct muscle groups.

when u first start out dont lift weight cause u need to deveolp good technique and lifting may cause slow,stiff punches and u can lose ur angles on ur shots. When ur good then yes u sud do weights and yes once u have good technique weights will def increase ur power if u work the correct muscle groups.

I don't agree. When you start out boxing, you train the way a beginner needs to train. When you start lifting weights, you should do the same. Any beginner in any activity shouldn't attempt to train the same way as the elite. So you should start out on both as soon as you can, but keep in mind you're a beginner, and therefore train as one in BOTH. That's the BEST way to do it. Why would you want to start out boxing only, get to a level where you need that extra strength, and THEN start training weights like a beginner? That will take you MINIMUM 1 (more likely 2-3)year to get to the point where you should be as an elite athlete. Starting both early means they'll follow each other, and you'll be able to do the kind of weight training you need, when you need it, not 3 years later.

Lifting does not cause slow stiff punches! Sure, Arnold Schwarzenegger might be slow and stiff, but NO ONE here is ever gonna train like him, and have the ridiculous mass he had anyway. Remember that weights for athletes is completely different from bodybuilding (look at 100m runners, they're ANYTHING but slow and stiff!). I really wish you guys would realize that by now. :rolleyes:

Ok, but I don't know why, I just feel bad when I do weights. I still do bodyweight exercises weighted though. Would a 3x8 pushup be the same as doing 3x8 on a barbell?

PunchDrunk, if you do weights, could you post up your routine? I'd appreciate greatly.

Ok, but I don't know why, I just feel bad when I do weights. I still do bodyweight exercises weighted though. Would a 3x8 pushup be the same as doing 3x8 on a barbell?


Resistance is resistance, your body really can't tell the difference.

For me, the issue is time. Lifting weights usually equals soreness and I have to go to a different gym to lift. My schedule is pretty tight so I don't have a lot of extra time to be taking time off for soreness and traveling to different gyms.

Four things you may want to invest in that are "weightlifting-ish", but won't require a fully equiped weight room are:
kettlebells, a medicine ball with a rope through it, a decent sized tire (with chains or a rope to secure it), and a heavy sandbag (a duffle bag filled with around 70lbs).

Do sledgehammer type stuff with the medicine ball, do olympic lifting type stuff with the kettlebells & sand bag, and do sled pulls with the tire. Add in your calisthenics & some plyo stuff and you're set.

They'll build the kinda functional strength you want for fighting.

If you can fight time in the weight room into your schedule it probably wouldn't hurt; far from it- lifting weights is often good for injury prevention.

Ok, but I don't know why, I just feel bad when I do weights. I still do bodyweight exercises weighted though. Would a 3x8 pushup be the same as doing 3x8 on a barbell?

PunchDrunk, if you do weights, could you post up your routine? I'd appreciate greatly.

Exactly what porkchop said: "Resistance is resistance, your body really can't tell the difference."
Also, you have to do the right exercises and rep schemes, and ample time for recovery.

I do weights, but I'm a trainer, so I can pretty much do anything I want, as I don't have to perform in the ring. My boxers also do weights though. I can't just post their "routine," because a routine is the first misunderstanding here. It depends on so many factors that there is no routine. Some factors: Age, training age (how long the athlete's been lifting AND how long he's been boxing), individual needs (speed power, endurance, strength or something else?), weight division issues, where the athlete is in his preparation for a fight or a championship tournament, how the last workout went, it has to fit into the rest of the training program, how well does the particular athlete respond and recover to/from training, and a bunch of other stuff. I'd have to train you to get to know all this stuff.

Like I said in some other thread, if someone gives you an answer that sounds too categorical and oversimplified, it's usually because it is. A good training program for ANY athlete in ANY sport is individualized and tailored to the specific athlete's needs. It also has to be modified as you go along. No one can just write out a program to follow, and follow it to the letter, and expect to get optimal results.

a person hu lifts weights to get more power and 2 look bigger with bigger muscles doesnt realy mean that that they can punch as hard or as fast as a person that hits the heavy bag or speed bag a lot every day for a long amount of time

a person hu lifts weights to get more power and 2 look bigger with bigger muscles doesnt realy mean that that they can punch as hard or as fast as a person that hits the heavy bag or speed bag a lot every day for a long amount of time

A person who says what you just said really doesn't know what he's talking about. The first person you might want to ask about weights is the guy you named yourself after.

Besides, after reading what's been said in this thread, why do you go and say "a person hu lifts weights to get more power and 2 look bigger with bigger muscles"? WHo here talks about bigger muscles? Please read the thread before you make no good comments about something you know very little about. The only two things you just achieved are 1. Putting the thread back to square one, rehashing some of the misunderstandings that should have been cleared up by now. And 2. Making yourself look like a fool. Go ask Ricky! :rolleyes:

Exactly what porkchop said: "Resistance is resistance, your body really can't tell the difference."
Also, you have to do the right exercises and rep schemes, and ample time for recovery.

I do weights, but I'm a trainer, so I can pretty much do anything I want, as I don't have to perform in the ring. My boxers also do weights though. I can't just post their "routine," because a routine is the first misunderstanding here. It depends on so many factors that there is no routine. Some factors: Age, training age (how long the athlete's been lifting AND how long he's been boxing), individual needs (speed power, endurance, strength or something else?), weight division issues, where the athlete is in his preparation for a fight or a championship tournament, how the last workout went, it has to fit into the rest of the training program, how well does the particular athlete respond and recover to/from training, and a bunch of other stuff. I'd have to train you to get to know all this stuff.

Like I said in some other thread, if someone gives you an answer that sounds too categorical and oversimplified, it's usually because it is. A good training program for ANY athlete in ANY sport is individualized and tailored to the specific athlete's needs. It also has to be modified as you go along. No one can just write out a program to follow, and follow it to the letter, and expect to get optimal results.


your a trainer that is a very good info from me because i just strated boxing. i stoped a little because my i had an accident nothing happened to me just the care.

Do you train your fighters everyday?

another question is that I have fragil hand when i punch heavy bags there is pain in the middle of my arms. now it healed but and training with a squezzing ball. any other tips not to break my hands?

your a trainer that is a very good info from me because i just strated boxing. i stoped a little because my i had an accident nothing happened to me just the care.

Do you train your fighters everyday?

another question is that I have fragil hand when i punch heavy bags there is pain in the middle of my arms. now it healed but and training with a squezzing ball. any other tips not to break my hands?

Yeah, I train them 5-7 days a week + training camps with 2-3 training passes a day.

About the hands, get your trainer to do a tape cast you can put under your handwraps, that's built specially for your hands. If your trainers any good, I'm sure he'll know what to do. Also work on turning your hands, so you hit the bag CLEANLY with your knuckles. Some people keep their wrists perfectly straight, some curve them inward, slightly. I did the latter, because of my build. If my wrists were straight, I wouldn't hit with my knuckles, but the first joint down the finger. I know some people will think this strange, but I never had any problems with my hands and wrists when I did this, and I know other fighters who do the same. Try straighting your arm, and see how to hold your wrist to hit cleanly.

If there's a bag that is a little softer than the others, use that one for a while.

Is the pain in your arms or your wrists? Hands? Knuckles? Fingers?

on a general basis, boxing specific training is the priority for a boxer. any type of weightlifting programs are more supplemental and secondary. i'm sure we can all agree with that.

however, i do feel certain types of resistance training are very important. for example, kettlebell work is commonly used by fighters and kostya tszyu actually endorses them. i really need to get me a pair!

but, the type of weightlifting you do, as a boxer, should generally be related to some function of boxing. this does not mean that all other forms of weightlifting would be completly detrimental and a complete waste of time though.

i personally have dozens, if not a hundred or more weight/resistance training exercises - i like a variety. a huge portion of them are exercises that 98% of people have never heard of.

another question is that I have fragil hand when i punch heavy bags there is pain in the middle of my arms. now it healed but and training with a squezzing ball. any other tips not to break my hands?

ahh yes. hardening the fists. eazy_mas, i will send you a PM about this.

I don't agree. When you start out boxing, you train the way a beginner needs to train. When you start lifting weights, you should do the same. Any beginner in any activity shouldn't attempt to train the same way as the elite. So you should start out on both as soon as you can, but keep in mind you're a beginner, and therefore train as one in BOTH. That's the BEST way to do it. Why would you want to start out boxing only, get to a level where you need that extra strength, and THEN start training weights like a beginner? That will take you MINIMUM 1 (more likely 2-3)year to get to the point where you should be as an elite athlete. Starting both early means they'll follow each other, and you'll be able to do the kind of weight training you need, when you need it, not 3 years later.

Lifting does not cause slow stiff punches! Sure, Arnold Schwarzenegger might be slow and stiff, but NO ONE here is ever gonna train like him, and have the ridiculous mass he had anyway. Remember that weights for athletes is completely different from bodybuilding (look at 100m runners, they're ANYTHING but slow and stiff!). I really wish you guys would realize that by now. :rolleyes:

From personal experience i as an amature i never did weight training for ex bench press as originally discussed, sure i did weight based circuits but never trained in set reps, drop sets,super sets,laddermethod etc, it was usually time based weight training. This is just the way i was trained.

When i was considering turning pro and started doing the above methods it helped with my punching power and overall strenght, but somedays it wud slow down my shots a little and find it more difficult to get my angles on certain shots, just felt stiff and not as fast.
I personally feel speaking for myself, if i wud have spent time doing weights when i was 17-22 i wud not have been as good as i am now. I can concentrate on both now but am kinda glad i put the extra effort into the boxing skill side when i was younger. I know what ur gonna say prehaps i sud have trained harder to fit in the weights as well but ive always over trained as it is.

Is the pain in your arms or your wrists? Hands? Knuckles? Fingers?


It in the middle of the hands as well as my Knuckles the become red

From personal experience i as an amature i never did weight training for ex bench press as originally discussed, sure i did weight based circuits but never trained in set reps, drop sets,super sets,laddermethod etc, it was usually time based weight training. This is just the way i was trained.

When i was considering turning pro and started doing the above methods it helped with my punching power and overall strenght, but somedays it wud slow down my shots a little and find it more difficult to get my angles on certain shots, just felt stiff and not as fast.
I personally feel speaking for myself, if i wud have spent time doing weights when i was 17-22 i wud not have been as good as i am now. I can concentrate on both now but am kinda glad i put the extra effort into the boxing skill side when i was younger. I know what ur gonna say prehaps i sud have trained harder to fit in the weights as well but ive always over trained as it is.

I'm just gonna give you a little comment on this one part:
"but somedays it wud slow down my shots a little and find it more difficult to get my angles on certain shots, just felt stiff and not as fast"

Of course it would sometimes slow you down a little. In TRAINING. When my fighters are in training camp they train 3 times a day. Don't you think the two first workouts of the day slow them down when they have to run 5x800m on the 3rd workout of the day? The important thing is that the training is timed right, so you're in top condition at fight time. Sometimes you feel heavy or tired or sluggish in training. That's all part of the process, and a good trainer will know when to pile it on, and when to ease off. Again, weights aren't fundamentally different in that regard, than anything else in a training program. :)

The important thing is that the training is timed right, so you're in top condition at fight time. Sometimes you feel heavy or tired or sluggish in training. That's all part of the process, and a good trainer will know when to pile it on, and when to ease off. Again, weights aren't fundamentally different in that regard, than anything else in a training program. :)

This bit makes perfect sense, may be if i wud have had the oportunity to train like ur fighters then maybe i cud see the light so to speak.All i can go on is personal experienece in this discussion. I understand wat ur saying, its sad cause i dont think my training has been as strategic as it sud be, and to be quite honnest ive always felt that ive peaked too early in the gym a lot of the time, and not been my best on the night.

Bench press, push-ups, etc., are more important in judo where a person needs to be able to control his weight or the weight of the opponent at any distance by hanging on. Boxing is all about leverage. A small guy with good leverage can outhit a bodybuilder who arm punches....

Bench press, push-ups, etc., are more important in judo where a person needs to be able to control his weight or the weight of the opponent at any distance by hanging on. Boxing is all about leverage. A small guy with good leverage can outhit a bodybuilder who arm punches....

Food is more important to a starving Ethiopian than to me. That doesn't mean I don't get hungry. No one's talking about bodybuilders here, so don't distort the issue, please. :rolleyes:

A small guy with good leverage and optimal physical training WILL outhit a small guy who only has good leverage. Catch my drift?

Upper body(From the bottom of the chest up.) Does not and cannot(You gotta try it, it really just doesn't work!) create a punch, Everything below it creates the punch, and if you can get everything below it to work together when you punch, your hand will brea...I mean you will be "Punching" I think. But, your upperbody has to be strong enough to take the punch while absorbing as little as possible! If you hit really hard but you lack stability in the shoulders, your just gonna explode! Like Gerry Cooney or Kostya Tszyu! The punch is going to all be absorbed(depending on its stability of course!) in the shoulders, and you can say good bye to really anything if it is bad!

Muscles control all of your body movement, the idea is to make powerlifter type muscle lifting weights, make as many muscles in your body stronger. But this muscle can't coordinate itself with all the other muscles in your body just by lifting wieghts even as a powerlifter, because everyone punches differently. The muscles in your hips may be alot slower than the ones in your abs or back, or calves, even if they are much stronger. So hit the punching bag alot as hard as you can, ripping every punch as hard as possible, going as many rounds as is safe for you to go! This will teach your body(You won't even notice it! Really! Its incredible!) how to coordinate and train all the muscles so that they work together, as one giant muscle, to just break your hands, or the bag!(If you can hit hard enough to break your hands with 8ounce gloves on, just immagine what would happen if that shot landed in someone's eye barefisted!)

One thing that happened to me lifting weights 3x a week, 2x upperbody, 1x lower, was that as I began to get a whole lot stronger(I wasn't hitting the bag that much then, maybee about 3 rounds.could leave massive dents in the bag when I punched it as hard as I could, but it wouldn't budge(It was only 70lbs!) I just set their and looked all denty. The sound of the punches was low, like thunder.
The more strength I gained in the upperbody(Particularly the triceps) the harder my jab was, even though it did get slower and tire out after so many a round, the bag would move more with the jab than it did with the big punches, but it didn't dent much.
The more strength I gained in the lowerbody(Particularly the hips, from Deadlift since I didn't bend my knees that much then.) The more strain it was on my shoulders to the point where I would just stop punching a certain way alltogether. But man did those punches ever improve with those deadlifts, it really was something, and if you can bend your knees alot then the thighs will help even more!
This was all while hitting the bag on occasion, just enough to let my body know that I wanted it to punch like that, 3 rounds a day, 4 or 5 days a week, and I hit it like, well, a white kid.(Drunken sailor!) :D

Now at one point I was alot stronger than I was then, even in the abs, but granted I was younger so the muscle I had was different than the ones that I got later. But I was a pretty strong kid and was bragged on in school(Kids their are to lazy to lift...)I didnt't ever hit the bag, I didn't have one, but I always thought I could just murder someone if I hit em, just maul em real bad, I thought noone at 140lbs could hit harder than I could(And I just lifted weights!) Well one day I bought myself a punching bag, the one I talked about above, and amist all the lifting(almost 2 years straight before the bag!) I would go hit the bag, and just swing at it like a drunks sailor! I was sloppy, uncoordinated, had no power, made no sound when I hit it, basically it was like watching a little girl on roids hit a bag. It was embarassing to me. I have a punchers mentality, and my hands hold up fairly well, but I just couldn't hit it, I would hit it as hard as I could, and their was just something missing, I knew I could do better but didn't know what was going on.
I didn't use my legs or hips that much other than a shoudler roll or stepping into the bag, my jab was just...ughh...I would step in and nail it with a jab and...nothing, no effect. This muscle that I had mad over the years, was trained to lift heavy and slowly, 3 sets of 12 or whatever, their was no snap, their was no power, their was just...nothing. And this really frusterated me, I thought that punchers were born and couldn't be made, I thought your dad and mom, and their dad and mom and so on had to be strong, powerful punchers for you to be one. But that was the wrong thing to think. So I worked my butt off on this bag, going 10 rounds everyday. Coming home from school, lifting for a hour just as heavy as hard as I could, and just went all out with abs and everything. I hit the bag so hard that my hands would just look like someone hammered them, they would turn purple and pop and crack all the time. Sometimes I would move weird while at school writing something, and the pain would be so weird that my hand would just snap and send the pencil flying.
Well I kept at it, 5 days a week, all day long for a month or less and started to really improve, I think the muscles that were stronger, bigger, and more dominant than my smaller ones began to quickly take over the punches, I was being selftaught and didnt even know it, I was as though my body had a mind of its own, and it only wanted to do what I wanted it to do, get stronger and punch! I would hit this bag and my punches would just whiz into it, even makeing a swoosh sound as my arms moved, the sound was thunderous and pissed everyone in the house off :P It was really low sounding, loud, the bag flew all over the place, and their were massive holes and dents in it when it didn't move and I hit it.
One day I decided I didn't want to lift anymore, I thought that strength had totally nothing to do with punches, I wanted to workout more like Ron Lyle, doing 1000pushups and situps instead of lifting weights like Earnie Shavers. The punches began to just become, incredibly fast, but everything shortened, more skillsthan kills I think u call it, the sound went from a loud thud to a snap, like a stick snapping when I landed, I just couldn't hit!

It's not true what they say, punchers ARE born yes, mentally! But not physically! Look at their families, their is nothing special their, and none of George's kids could punch. The thing with lifting is to make bigger stronger muscles, and you can use this NEW muscle that doesn't know what to do and make it do whatever you want. You can either train it to lift even heavier, making it burn less energy or tighten, you can train it to run, or you can train it all to punch, and the fewer things you train it to do, the more potential in that area it will have! Just hit the bag all day, and lift weights and eat, and depending on your work ethic you will become a punching machine, the severity and degree of this will depend on your work ethic.

The only thing that is "BORN" in a puncher is the punchers mentality(the ability to everytime you hit something or train, train with all the aggression in the world, or try to kill your punching bag or opponent for 12 rounds! All the time, I guarantee very few human beings have this!), and tough hands that can handle the extreme punches and work ethic!) Weight(A huge factor, if you can't handle the weight you aren't going to hurt anyone, and if it's to light it usually wont be as hard as it would be if you were naturally heavier!)
Everything else is made, you have to go get the ability to punch and noone can tell you how to do it, you gotta figure it out yourself just like me(If any of this even made sense lol) Because if your thighs were ment to be the base of your punch, throwing a left hook from the hips or somethign wont be any good!