View Full Version : Muhammad Ali or Joe Louis?


Mike Tyson77
07-02-2006, 10:15 PM
Who's the best fighter between these two? Most people rank them in the top two all time. Ali may have beaten the best fighters and made the combacks.......but Joe Louis is Joe Louis. Louis had 25 title defenses and fought some great wars. You gotta love both of these greats and they both deserve to be #1. But if you had to pick who was the best......who would it be?

My friend and I where talking about who greatest HW was. He said Ali. We asked lot's of people, everyone said Ali. Then he asks this really old man, he was probly like in his late 70's. He said....."Joe Louis." My friend said Ali would dance circles around Louis. The man looked him dead in the eye and said in a strong voice, "Joe Louis would knock him out with one punch."


I thought that was cool. This man (who was white) that lived through times when whites and blacks lived separate, still loved Joe Louis. He lived during Louis's,Marciano's,Ali's,Tyson's reign and still believed Louis to be the greatest.


Im having a hard time deciding, what do you guys think?

Verstyle
07-02-2006, 10:18 PM
Who's the best fighter between these two? Most people rank them in the top two all time. Ali may have beaten the best fighters and made the combacks.......but Joe Louis is Joe Louis. Louis had 25 title defenses and fought some great wars. You gotta love both of these greats and they both deserve to be #1. But if you had to pick who was the best......who would it be?

My friend and I where talking about who greatest HW was. He said Ali. We asked lot's of people, everyone said Ali. Then he asks this really old man, he was probly like in his late 70's. He said....."Joe Louis." My friend said Ali would dance circles around Louis. The man looked him dead in the eye and said in a strong voice, "Joe Louis would knock him out with one punch."


I thought that was cool. This man (who was white) that lived through times when whites and blacks lived separate, still loved Joe Louis. He lived during Louis's,Marciano's,Ali's,Tyson's reign and still believed Louis to be the greatest.


Im having a hard time deciding, what do you guys think?

ali. man that was easy

micky_knox
07-02-2006, 10:19 PM
i just cant decide
i have ali louis tyson and marciano all as joint top.......

Mike Tyson77
07-02-2006, 10:22 PM
i just cant decide
i have ali louis tyson and marciano all as joint top.......

I could agree with that.

micky_knox
07-02-2006, 10:24 PM
I could agree with that.
ive had sleepless nights trying to decide who was the best.......
lol it gave me so many headaches.......
all 4 of them were exceptional in thier own way.....they all deserve to be up there :)

Mike Tyson77
07-02-2006, 10:27 PM
ive had sleepless nights trying to decide who was the best.......
lol it gave me so many headaches.......
all 4 of them were exceptional in thier own way.....they all deserve to be up there :)

Me to. All 4 of those guys could kick ass. Jack Dempsey wasnt that bad either. I love watching that fight where he knocks Jess Willard down 7 times in round 1! Tyson likes that fight also.

micky_knox
07-02-2006, 10:32 PM
Me to. All 4 of those guys could kick ass. Jack Dempsey wasnt that bad either. I love watching that fight where he knocks Jess Willard down 7 times in round 1! Tyson likes that fight also.
yea jack was awesome too...........isnt he one of tysons heros?
jacks another alltime great.no doubt about it

Mike Tyson77
07-02-2006, 10:34 PM
yea jack was awesome too...........isnt he one of tysons heros?
jacks another alltime great.no doubt about it


Tyson loved Dempsey. He did the fade hair cut and no socks like Dempsey.

Heckler
07-02-2006, 10:57 PM
The difference between Louis and Ali is paper thin at best. I have no problem with Louis at one, but i prefer Ali. Louis was more dominant and made more defences, however Ali defeated the better competition. I believe Ali would do a little better head to head with other greats of the past.

RockyMarcianofan00
07-02-2006, 11:09 PM
It's a Hard Decision I'd like to think Louis is number one just because IMO Louis was an all around better fighter..Louis had speed,power,brains,chin,and a good defense...where as the only places Ali had louis beat was probably speed,chin, and footwork...

Though Head to Head is different I think Louis would have a tougher time with Ali then he would with most of Ali's opponents (excluding Foreman and Frazier)....

IMO Louis is #1

Heckler
07-03-2006, 12:24 AM
Ali was more durable, faster with both hands and feet, just as smart, bigger and probably physically stronger. In regard to technical proficiency and punching power its no contest... Louis is miles ahead.

LOLORSKATES
07-03-2006, 12:32 AM
Tyson loved Dempsey. He did the fade hair cut and no socks like Dempsey.
Plus he did the Dempsey Roll and he did it great too, but to answer the question I'd have to go with the king of boxing.

sleazyfellow
07-03-2006, 09:09 AM
louis did what heavyweights were suppose to do..knock ppl out and i think his right hand is stronger than ali, plus he has a good left too....so i choose joe

M26
07-03-2006, 10:01 AM
A very close call between the two greatest heavyweights of all time.

Muhammad Ali was the faster and stronger fighter, with the better chin. His reach was longer than that of Joe Louis, and he was an absolute master of mindgames.

Joe Louis hit alot harder than did Ali and he was definitely the better boxer. I also believe his footwork to be better. Ali had alot faster feet, but Louis' footwork was excellent. Granted, he didn't move very fast, but he moved very well.

In a head-to-head fight, a prime Ali would definitely own the first few rounds with his speed and dancing. Louis would be in trouble, struggling to figure out Ali, and he would take a solid beating in the process. He would get back into the fight later on though, and the last few rounds would be fought on even terms.

Still, Alis early domination would help him win by a narrow decision.

Muhammad Ali by SD.

The rematch would go Louis' way I believe. He was a master of figuring out his foes, and he would come more prepared for Ali in a second fight. His superb footwork would help him cut off the ring from the start, and he would be harvesting points throughout the fight.

Joe Louis by UD.

A third fight would also be won by Louis I think.

The Ali of the 70s would be beaten badly and maybe even stopped by Louis. With his legs gone, Ali would be forced to use the rope-a-dope against Louis, which would spell disaster for him. Louis would rip him to shreds with those accurate, fast and ripping shots of his, and Ali would be in serious trouble.

Joe Louis by tko12.


Joe Louis is the greatest heavyweight of all time.

RAESAAD
07-03-2006, 10:04 AM
Tyson is not even top 10 for those of you who could not decide between him and these others........Louis #1 all-time IMO.

King Koyle
07-03-2006, 11:07 AM
I think Louis by a very slim margin.But I agree that Ali would give him lots of trouble.Maybe even beat him.


My top five
1.Joe Louis
2.Muhammad Ali
3.Jack Dempsey
4.Jack Johnson
5.Rocky Marciano

K-DOGG
07-03-2006, 11:17 AM
Joe Louis was a more complete technical fighter than was Ali, punched harder, had a better jab, and was a better finisher. Ali, on the other hand, was more physically gifted than Louis, he was faster, more mobile, and had a better chin. Both men are equal in terms of heart and will to win; and both are equal in their capacity of carrying the mantel of "People's Champion".

Who was greater between the two? It has been said for a fighter to be great, he needs great competition. Louis had Baer, Schmeling, Conn, and Walcott. Ali had Liston, Frazier, Norton, and Foreman. Ali's second tier opposistion was better than Louis's, IMO. Louis's second tier would consist of Tommy Farr, Lou Nova, Aturo Godoy, and Tami Mauriello while Ali's would consist of Floyd Patterson, Jerry Quarry, Ron Lyle, & Earnie Shavers.

Both also aged about the same, with Louis retiring with the title at 34 before his comeback. Ali, had he retired at 34, would have retired a two-time champion, having never officially lost his title in the ring; but he fought on and lost the title at 36 to the unheralded Leon Spinks...and then regained it for an unprecedented 3rd time.

Both made sad comebacks. Louis losing to Champion Ezzard Charles and then being stopped by future champ Rocky Marciano while Ali was pounded into retirement by Champion Larry Holmes and then lost a decision to future WBC titlist, Trevor Berbick in his final fight.

Accomplishment-wise, the answer is up for grabs. Head to head, I'd favor a prime Ali over a prime Louis based on Ali's hand and foot speed.

Who's better between these two manliest of men? I'd favour Ali ever so slightly; but admitt my conclusion is more than likely tainted by bias towards the man I called "hero" in my youth.

King Koyle
07-03-2006, 11:23 AM
You should be a boxing journalist!Are you?

K-DOGG
07-03-2006, 11:28 AM
You should be a boxing journalist!Are you?

Do you mean Me?

King Koyle
07-03-2006, 11:30 AM
Yeah,sorry I should have quoted.

K-DOGG
07-03-2006, 11:36 AM
I consider myself more of a historian; but do write a little on the side. I just love the sport.

King Koyle
07-03-2006, 11:46 AM
I consider myself more of a historian; but do write a little on the side. I just love the sport.

I can tell :D

Mike Tyson77
07-03-2006, 02:00 PM
There's no loser here. Both where great, and both could be #1. So far it's 10 to 8 in favor of Ali, let's get more votes.

blockhead
07-03-2006, 02:28 PM
joe louis is the no. 1 heavy of all time. the only reason anyone considers ali to be the best is because he himself said it so often and he entertained people into believing that he was. the truth is that he wasnt. joe louis was the best, no matter what the polls or ali say.

K-DOGG
07-03-2006, 03:47 PM
joe louis is the no. 1 heavy of all time. the only reason anyone considers ali to be the best is because he himself said it so often and he entertained people into believing that he was. the truth is that he wasnt. joe louis was the best, no matter what the polls or ali say.

Got to disagree with you bro. If Ali had had Louis' personality and kicked ass the way he did, beat the men he beat the way he beat them, he'd still be considered the best.

Granted, he wouldn't be as popular among the non-fans and the casual fans; but he ranks on merit alone.

Dempsey 1919
07-03-2006, 11:37 PM
I'm not gonna say anything because it might hurt the gate for the ali-louis series on my playoff boxing thread. :D

RockyMarcianofan00
07-03-2006, 11:41 PM
I'm not gonna say anything because it might hurt the gate for the ali-louis series on my playoff boxing thread. :D
Like you'd let Ali lose to Louis (to win the series) :rolleyes:

Dempsey 1919
07-03-2006, 11:43 PM
Like you'd let Ali lose to Louis (to win the series) :rolleyes:

You never know.

Verstyle
07-03-2006, 11:44 PM
I'm not gonna say anything because it might hurt the gate for the ali-louis series on my playoff boxing thread. :D


*whispering* your avatar and signiture is telling every1 else who u picked. ;)

Dempsey 1919
07-03-2006, 11:46 PM
*whispering* your avatar and signiture is telling every1 else who u picked. ;)

That doesn't mean he will win.

Verstyle
07-03-2006, 11:47 PM
That doesn't mean he will win.
ok............... ;)

Dempsey 1919
07-03-2006, 11:48 PM
ok............... ;)

Hey, you know that I've always said that both Sonny Liston and Mike Tyson is better then Joe Louis, but look who won, so the same thing can happen with Ali.

Verstyle
07-03-2006, 11:52 PM
Hey, you know that I've always said that both Sonny Liston and Mike Tyson is better then Joe Louis, but look who won, so the same thing can happen with Ali.


well ok. change your avatar ali looks gay in it

Dempsey 1919
07-04-2006, 12:35 AM
well ok. change your avatar ali looks gay in it

No!!!!! :D

Heckler
07-04-2006, 01:37 AM
joe louis is the no. 1 heavy of all time. the only reason anyone considers ali to be the best is because he himself said it so often and he entertained people into believing that he was. the truth is that he wasnt. joe louis was the best, no matter what the polls or ali say.

Like to justify that? Are you saying that many reputable historians consider Ali the best because he merely said it? and had charisma? I don't think so.

Ali is easily top 2, and a very strong case can be made for him being ranked number 1.

hemichromis
07-04-2006, 01:47 AM
technically its louis
but because of alis speed any fight is gonna be close. most people 'in the know' seem tom think loouis is better

Yaman
07-04-2006, 05:50 AM
Like to justify that? Are you saying that many reputable historians consider Ali the best because he merely said it? and had charisma? I don't think so.

Ali is easily top 2, and a very strong case can be made for him being ranked number 1.


He said that many many many people, including real boxing fans bought it.
I hope Blockhead didnt piss you off btw.

Heckler
07-04-2006, 05:57 AM
He said that many many many people, including real boxing fans bought it.
I hope Blockhead didnt piss you off btw.

Who said this? Blockhead or Ali?

blockhead
07-04-2006, 10:31 AM
Like to justify that? Are you saying that many reputable historians consider Ali the best because he merely said it? and had charisma? I don't think so.

Ali is easily top 2, and a very strong case can be made for him being ranked number 1.
what historians? ali isnt the best nor is he number two. ali is the single most over rated boxer in the history of the sport.
nobody considers him to be the greatest except for people who know nothing about boxing.

ROSEWOOD
07-04-2006, 12:09 PM
float......buterfly.....bee.......sting.....hell you know the answer to this ****..

ROSEWOOD
07-04-2006, 12:10 PM
what historians? ali isnt the best nor is he number two. ali is the single most over rated boxer in the history of the sport.
nobody considers him to be the greatest except for people who know nothing about boxing.
playa...make up your damn mind man...you just said earlier that roy jones jr was the single most overrated boxer in the history of the sport...come on playa...who's who's

Verstyle
07-04-2006, 12:15 PM
what historians? ali isnt the best nor is he number two. ali is the single most over rated boxer in the history of the sport.
nobody considers him to be the greatest except for people who know nothing about boxing.


i agree the no bodies that dont know **** about boxin always say ali or tyson was the greatest cause they always here there names and i guess they jus ASSUME there the greatest.

blockhead
07-04-2006, 12:31 PM
playa...make up your damn mind man...you just said earlier that roy jones jr was the single most overrated boxer in the history of the sport...come on playa...who's who's
hahaha, good call, i will fix this, roy is the most over rated of our generation and ali is the most over rated all time.

Verstyle
07-04-2006, 12:32 PM
hahaha, good call, i will fix this, roy is the most over rated of our generation and ali is the most over rated all time.
jus curious. what makes ali overrated :confused:

blockhead
07-04-2006, 12:46 PM
jus curious. what makes ali overrated :confused:
ali is a great fighter dont get me wrong, but the constant claims that he is the "greatest" and so on are absurd. i mean please, james toney has a better record than ali and he has been successfull in more weight classes. i am not saying that toney is better i am just using him as an example.

Verstyle
07-04-2006, 12:49 PM
ali is a great fighter dont get me wrong, but the constant claims that he is the "greatest" and so on are absurd. i mean please, james toney has a better record than ali and he has been successfull in more weight classes. i am not saying that toney is better i am just using him as an example.


but ali has fought a hell of a better class of fighters then tony has.

blockhead
07-04-2006, 01:00 PM
but ali has fought a hell of a better class of fighters then tony has.
thats true and like i said it was just an example. ali was a great fighter and he used ray robinsons style to his advantage in the heavyweight division. nobody was prepared to compete with that style at the time. i think that if joe frazier hadnt been legally blind in one eye that he would have won the thrilla with ease and been considered the "greatest". however things happened as they did and that is what we have so......

K-DOGG
07-04-2006, 02:50 PM
what historians? ali isnt the best nor is he number two. ali is the single most over rated boxer in the history of the sport.
nobody considers him to be the greatest except for people who know nothing about boxing.

Well gee whiz, thanks. :rolleyes:

blockhead
07-04-2006, 02:55 PM
Well gee whiz, thanks. :rolleyes:
hahaha, no offense sorry.

Yaman
07-04-2006, 02:55 PM
I somewhat have to agree with Blockhead.

People do overrate Muhammad Ali. That is when his name is mentioned with other fighters, he is superior to all of them because people are so closed minded about Ali. No fighter is invincible. Every fighter can be beaten because of styles. But because there so many people that dont think this is true, Ali has become a little overrated.

But you cant argue about people calling him the greatest. What he did outside the ring is bigger than any boxer ever lived has done. What he did inside the ring was also backed up. He beat the legends of his time and has basicely shown that he is a true ''great'' fighter. So i cant argue with that because Ali beat all the greats of his eras.

Anyway, about the topic. I cant choose. they were both great in diffirent ways.

K-DOGG
07-04-2006, 03:12 PM
hahaha, no offense sorry.

None taken *mumbles to self* :D

K-DOGG
07-04-2006, 03:20 PM
I somewhat have to agree with Blockhead.

People do overrate Muhammad Ali. That is when his name is mentioned with other fighters, he is superior to all of them because people are so closed minded about Ali. No fighter is invincible. Every fighter can be beaten because of styles. But because there so many people that dont think this is true, Ali has become a little overrated.

But you cant argue about people calling him the greatest. What he did outside the ring is bigger than any boxer ever lived has done. What he did inside the ring was also backed up. He beat the legends of his time and has basicely shown that he is a true ''great'' fighter. So i cant argue with that because Ali beat all the greats of his eras.

Anyway, about the topic. I cant choose. they were both great in diffirent ways.

Oh yeah, people do overate him because he was larger than life; but I personally think his ring merits do measure up. And, I did admit my bias, earleir; but yes, he is overrated by a few due to his own self-promotion.

marvdave
07-04-2006, 04:06 PM
Ali is not overrated.............he has earned every merit he received.

my top three

Ali
Louis
Holmes

Heckler
07-04-2006, 06:49 PM
ali is a great fighter dont get me wrong, but the constant claims that he is the "greatest" and so on are absurd. i mean please, james toney has a better record than ali and he has been successfull in more weight classes. i am not saying that toney is better i am just using him as an example.

How are they absurd at all? A very strong case can be made for Muhammad Ali being rated the number 1 Heavy of all time. Justify your position with some kind of reasoning at the very least. He beat 3 men that often sit somewhere in an historians top 10, dominanted in the era with the deepest talent pool. If you think people rate Ali as the greatest HW soley on the basis of his self-promotion you are wrong. Herbert Goldman, Nigel Collins, Steve Farhood, and Arthur Harris all consider Ali to be the greatest of all time? Those historians know nothing about boxing i assume?

I have no problem with Ali being rated below Louis, but to imply he doesn't deserve strong consideration for number 1 is ridiculous.

blockhead
07-04-2006, 06:53 PM
How are they absurd at all? A very strong case can be made for Muhammad Ali being rated the number 1 Heavy of all time. Justify your position with some kind of reasoning at the very least. He beat 3 men that often sit somewhere in an historians top 10, dominanted in the era with the deepest talent pool. If you think people rate Ali as the greatest HW soley on the basis of his self-promotion you are wrong. Herbert Goldman, Nigel Collins, Steve Farhood, and Arthur Harris all consider Ali to be the greatest of all time? Those historians know nothing about boxing i assume?

I have no problem with Ali being rated below Louis, but to imply he doesn't deserve strong consideration for number 1 is ridiculous.
ali got ift decision after gift decision. i rank him at no.2 all time heavies and its just my opinion that putting him above joe louis is absurd.

Heckler
07-04-2006, 07:03 PM
ali got ift decision after gift decision. i rank him at no.2 all time heavies and its just my opinion that putting him above joe louis is absurd.

How is putting him over Joe Louis absurd? its arguable ill admit... but ABSURD? all these historians, IBRO members that do rate Ali as the number one Heavy are being absurd? If you can't see that Ali deserves to be considered for number 1 and such a ranking can be justified you really need to brush up on your boxing knowledge.

Before you said he wasn't even No.2? Gift decision after gift decision... right thats a myth. He was gifted in Ali-Norton III and gifted in Ali-young and possibly against shavers. If you think he was gifted in anyother fights... sit down, actually watch and score the fights and you should conclude otherwise.

Ali is definately overrated and often thought of some kind of unbeatable super-human... and even at his best like all greats of the past he COULD be beaten. But he is often ranked number 1, and a career that was nothing short of amazing justifies considering him for this position.

Hard Boiled HK
07-04-2006, 08:29 PM
It is absolutely NOT absurb to rank Ali at the top spot. Like Heckler stated, it's arguable, but not absurb.

Mike Tyson77
07-05-2006, 11:23 AM
18 to 11 in favor of Ali. I know we have more than 29 members here. Still to close to call.

Dempsey 1919
07-06-2006, 10:44 AM
ali got ift decision after gift decision. i rank him at no.2 all time heavies and its just my opinion that putting him above joe louis is absurd.

Oh, so Joe Louis didn't get gift decisions? :rolleyes:

Southpaw Stinger
07-06-2006, 10:52 AM
Oh, so Joe Louis didn't get gift decisions?

Walcott springs to mind.

Dempsey 1919
07-06-2006, 11:03 AM
Walcott springs to mind.

Also Arturo Godoy.

Southpaw Stinger
07-06-2006, 11:06 AM
Also Arturo Godoy.


Yeah every fighter has them, doesn't stop them from being great. Although both fighters are great judging by opposition and ring achievements I have to say that Ali is the greater of the two.

Dempsey 1919
07-06-2006, 11:13 AM
Yeah every fighter has them, doesn't stop them from being great. Although both fighters are great judging by opposition and ring achievements I have to say that Ali is the greater of the two.

Did you look at my Playoff Boxing thread?

Southpaw Stinger
07-06-2006, 11:43 AM
Did you look at my Playoff Boxing thread?

Yeah, Ali's up after the poems and the taunts. I'm amazed it's not Liston in the final.
Head to head I think Louis is too slow and predicatable for Ali, but anyhting could happen I suppose.

scottyRRFC
07-06-2006, 06:25 PM
i picked ali even though louis had more title defenses ali has went through so much in his life and he beat openents much larger and more powerful than him and he had some of the best fights ive ever seen i can't forget the thriller in manilla and rumble in the jungle

NexBesThang
08-01-2006, 01:55 PM
"I am the astronaut of boxing. Joe Louis and Dempsey were just jet pilots. I am in my own world."-Muhammed Ali

Dempsey 1919
09-07-2006, 10:18 AM
joe louis is the no. 1 heavy of all time. the only reason anyone considers ali to be the best is because he himself said it so often and he entertained people into believing that he was. the truth is that he wasnt. joe louis was the best, no matter what the polls or ali say.

This is one of the dumbest posts i've seen in a while. if someone says something without proving it, no one would believe him. People thought ali was the greatest because he proved it in the ring, not because he said it a lot.

Dempsey 1919
09-07-2006, 11:05 AM
what historians? ali isnt the best nor is he number two. ali is the single most over rated boxer in the history of the sport.
nobody considers him to be the greatest except for people who know nothing about boxing.

I think Joe Louis is more overrated than Ali is.

First of all, Louis competition is weak to say the least. you can't even compare the people Joe Louis fought to the people that Ali fought. If Ali fought instead of Joe Louis he would be undefeated. And people like Conn or Schmeling wouldn't put him in trouble. Also people overrate Louis' performance aginst Max Schmeling, when in fact Max is overrated himself because he beat Louis the first time. Schmelings not a bum, but he would not give Ali any trouble at all. And as for the gift decisions, Louis got just as many gift decisions as ali did, and even more. JOE LOUIS RECEIVED GIFT DECISIONS IN HIS PRIME!! This is a fact. IN HIS PRIME!! Arturo godoy outboxed Louis easily in 1940 when Louis was only 26, but Louis gift got an MD. Everyone knows Godoy won that fight. All of Ali's gift decisions came after his prime, even after Manila, when he shouldn't have even been in the ring. Ali defeated 3 top ten hw's of all-time! How many top ten hw's did Louis beat? I'll answer that one for you, zero! The only top ten hw he ever fought (marciano) utterly destroyed him. Jersey Joe Walcott was Louis' biggest win. Liston, Foreman, Frazier, Patterson, and Norton are all better than Walcott, and Ali defeated them all, most of them when he was past his prime, and they were in their prime.

Also, Louis' chin was "shaky" to say the least. I've never seen any fighter that was called "great" rocked as many times as Joe Louis has. More than half of the people he fought landed shots on him that buckled him knees. This includes good fighters like Walcott and Conn, and even poor fighters like Galento and Mauriello. I've never seen many people rock Ali like that, even in his pre-prime. And most of the time, if he was getting rocked, he was getting rocked by hall of fame fighters like Foreman, Liston, Frazier, and Norton, and other power punchers like SHavers, Lyle, and Bonavena. he wasn't getting stunned by 168lb fighters like Billy Conn who as a light hw had almost 60 wins, but only 16 ko's to show for it. So he had trouble knocking out light hw's, but he had little trouble almost ko'ing the "heavyweight" louis.

Ali is the better fighter. true boxing fans should know this. Ali is faster, bigger, physically stronger, and a better chin. Louis only has power and defense over him. If Walcott, Conn, and Godoy, could outbox him, then Ali definetely would. If Conn could make Louis' legs turn into Jello, then Ali would do the same, as in his prime, Muhammad's ko percentege was over 70%. To beat Ali you had to apply pressure. Louis didn't do this. He would wait for you, and that would not cut it, when you are fighting a fast-boxing heavyweight like Muhammad Ali. Movement is the key in this matchup, and ali had it. Louis didn't.

Ali tko9, ko 13, or ud15.

Dempsey 1919
09-07-2006, 11:27 AM
ali isnt the best nor is he number two

Ali isn't even number two? Then who the heck is? Dempsey? Someone who was knocked out of the ring by a wild punching bum in Luis-Firpo? How about Marciano? Enough said. What about Jack Johnson? Johnson was great defensively and had the speed of a cat, but ali has superior speed, and Johnson's style is layed back and you need to go after ali in order to beat him, johnson didn't do this. Who else? Holmes? Holmes is a poor man's version of Ali. Holmes was lucky that Ali needed money and wasn't fifteen years younger. Who else? Nobody that's who! So before you go running off your mouth, get your facts straight.

hemichromis
09-07-2006, 02:42 PM
I think Joe Louis is more overrated than Ali is.

First of all, Louis competition is weak to say the least. you can't even compare the people Joe Louis fought to the people that Ali fought. If Ali fought instead of Joe Louis he would be undefeated. And people like Conn or Schmeling wouldn't put him in trouble. Also people overrate Louis' performance aginst Max Schmeling, when in fact Max is overrated himself because he beat Louis the first time. Schmelings not a bum, but he would not give Ali any trouble at all. And as for the gift decisions, Louis got just as many gift decisions as ali did, and even more. JOE LOUIS RECEIVED GIFT DECISIONS IN HIS PRIME!! This is a fact. IN HIS PRIME!! Arturo godoy outboxed Louis easily in 1940 when Louis was only 26, but Louis gift got an MD. Everyone knows Godoy won that fight. All of Ali's gift decisions came after his prime, even after Manila, when he shouldn't have even been in the ring. Ali defeated 3 top ten hw's of all-time! How many top ten hw's did Louis beat? I'll answer that one for you, zero! The only top ten hw he ever fought (marciano) utterly destroyed him. Jersey Joe Walcott was Louis' biggest win. Liston, Foreman, Frazier, Patterson, and Norton are all better than Walcott, and Ali defeated them all, most of them when he was past his prime, and they were in their prime.

Also, Louis' chin was "shaky" to say the least. I've never seen any fighter that was called "great" rocked as many times as Joe Louis has. More than half of the people he fought landed shots on him that buckled him knees. This includes good fighters like Walcott and Conn, and even poor fighters like Galento and Mauriello. I've never seen many people rock Ali like that, even in his pre-prime. And most of the time, if he was getting rocked, he was getting rocked by hall of fame fighters like Foreman, Liston, Frazier, and Norton, and other power punchers like SHavers, Lyle, and Bonavena. he wasn't getting stunned by 168lb fighters like Billy Conn who as a light hw had almost 60 wins, but only 16 ko's to show for it. So he had trouble knocking out light hw's, but he had little trouble almost ko'ing the "heavyweight" louis.

Ali is the better fighter. true boxing fans should know this. Ali is faster, bigger, physically stronger, and a better chin. Louis only has power and defense over him. If Walcott, Conn, and Godoy, could outbox him, then Ali definetely would. If Conn could make Louis' legs turn into Jello, then Ali would do the same, as in his prime, Muhammad's ko percentege was over 70%. To beat Ali you had to apply pressure. Louis didn't do this. He would wait for you, and that would not cut it, when you are fighting a fast-boxing heavyweight like Muhammad Ali. Movement is the key in this matchup, and ali had it. Louis didn't.

Ali tko9, ko 13, or ud15.

you say louis never beat any top ten heavyweights can you name a top ten heavyweight he fought in his prime? if you count marciano then you also have count alis losses to holmes and spinks!

Dempsey 1919
09-07-2006, 11:45 PM
you say louis never beat any top ten heavyweights can you name a top ten heavyweight he fought in his prime? if you count marciano then you also have count alis losses to holmes and spinks!

He didn't fight any, but if he struggled with what he had, then I doubt he would do any better with higher competition.

Southpaw Stinger
09-08-2006, 08:59 AM
Louis did the bum of the month tour. He once said Ali would be on the tour!

jason100x
09-08-2006, 09:23 AM
Not an easy decision, but probably Ali.

Hard Boiled HK
09-08-2006, 12:30 PM
ali got ift decision after gift decision. i rank him at no.2 all time heavies and its just my opinion that putting him above joe louis is absurd.


what historians? ali isnt the best nor is he number two. ali is the single most over rated boxer in the history of the sport.
nobody considers him to be the greatest except for people who know nothing about boxing.

So first of all, do you or do you not rank Ali no. 2 of all time. Why do you always contradict yourself? Let's hear it.

What historians? Look it up, genius.

Nobody considers him the greatest except for people who know nothing about boxing? Just like if you don't think George W. Bush is a great president then you are automatically a terrorist, right? Good job. A good handful of boxing historians consider Ali as the greatest. But according to you, they know absolutely nothing about boxing.

Dempsey 1919
09-08-2006, 12:33 PM
So first of all, do you or do you not rank Ali no. 2 of all time. Why do you always contradict yourself? Let's hear it.

What historians? Look it up, genius.

Nobody considers him the greatest except for people who know nothing about boxing? Just like if you don't think George W. Bush is a great president then you are automatically a terrorist, right? Good job. A good handful of boxing historians consider Ali as the greatest. But according to you, they know absolutely nothing about boxing.

Yeah, and this guy calls me an idiot.

Tong Po
09-08-2006, 01:35 PM
I think Louis by a very slim margin.But I agree that Ali would give him lots of trouble.Maybe even beat him.


My top five
1.Joe Louis
2.Muhammad Ali
3.Jack Dempsey
4.Jack Johnson
5.Rocky Marciano1.) Joe Louis
2.) Muhammad Ali
3.) Lennox Lewis
4.) Jack Johnson
5.) Rocky Marciano

Southpaw Stinger
09-08-2006, 04:02 PM
1. Muhmmad Ali
2. Joe Louis
3. George Foreman
4. Jack Dempsey
5. Rocky Marciano

*AKO PA HA!
09-08-2006, 04:11 PM
muhammad ali!

SABBATH
09-08-2006, 07:05 PM
What historians? Look it up, genius.
IBRO polled their members who are boxing historians who the greatest heavyweight of all time was and MUHAMMAD ALI HAD MORE VOTES AS #1 THAN ANY OTHER HEAVYWEIGHT INCLUDING JOE LOUIS. Ali also had a few historians score him lower than 2nd which brought his score down which is why IBRO's ATGH rankings have Ali a close 2nd overall in points to Louis.

Blockhead his appropriately named.

phallus
09-08-2006, 07:41 PM
A very close call between the two greatest heavyweights of all time.

Muhammad Ali was the faster and stronger fighter, with the better chin. His reach was longer than that of Joe Louis, and he was an absolute master of mindgames.

Joe Louis hit alot harder than did Ali and he was definitely the better boxer. I also believe his footwork to be better. Ali had alot faster feet, but Louis' footwork was excellent. Granted, he didn't move very fast, but he moved very well.

In a head-to-head fight, a prime Ali would definitely own the first few rounds with his speed and dancing. Louis would be in trouble, struggling to figure out Ali, and he would take a solid beating in the process. He would get back into the fight later on though, and the last few rounds would be fought on even terms.

Still, Alis early domination would help him win by a narrow decision.

Muhammad Ali by SD.

The rematch would go Louis' way I believe. He was a master of figuring out his foes, and he would come more prepared for Ali in a second fight. His superb footwork would help him cut off the ring from the start, and he would be harvesting points throughout the fight.

Joe Louis by UD.

A third fight would also be won by Louis I think.

The Ali of the 70s would be beaten badly and maybe even stopped by Louis. With his legs gone, Ali would be forced to use the rope-a-dope against Louis, which would spell disaster for him. Louis would rip him to shreds with those accurate, fast and ripping shots of his, and Ali would be in serious trouble.

Joe Louis by tko12.


Joe Louis is the greatest heavyweight of all time.



ali always had trouble with the smaller men who were good boxers, henry cooper ( a light hw) almost knocked ali out (in his prime) until angelo dundee cut ali's glove to him a rest. ali was a great champion, his beating a prime foreman shows his tremendous heart.
joe louis is the greatest boxer puncher of all time, his technique was perfect, i think joe was one of the most complete fighters ever. i agree with M26 that ali wins the early rounds because of his speed and footwork, but joe takes him into deep water and uses his beautiful technique to at least score a draw or maybe even stop ali late. frazier knocked ali down, louis was a much bigger puncher than frazier
i gotta say joe louis on this one

Zigga
09-09-2006, 08:56 PM
Ali Bom-bi-ay Ali Bom-bi-ay Ali Bom-bi-ay!!!!

Mike Tyson77
12-08-2007, 03:40 AM
continue folks

Sweet Pete
12-08-2007, 12:10 PM
Ali is the #1 HW of all time, Louis is the #2.

ROSS CALIFORNIA
12-08-2007, 04:25 PM
I think Ali proved over and over that he had the stuff to beat Louis. Louis was being out boxed by Conn (sp?) who was nothing in comparison to Ali.

Two Clips
12-08-2007, 04:36 PM
Joe Louis was my dad's favorite fighter so I grew up watching clips and old videoes of him so I say the Brown Bomber was the GOAT. An arguement could be made either way between him and Ali.

hayZ
12-08-2007, 04:38 PM
Ali to tear him up with the constant use of his jab and he is going to use his reach to his advantage.

msagrain
12-08-2007, 04:39 PM
id say louis as the he was pure class the only thing tho is louis images is tainted by his last fight because the us goverment forced him to fight when he was way past his prime.

them_apples
12-08-2007, 04:54 PM
Muhammed ali would kick Louis' ass, enough said.

You can't compare an old brawler (a good brawler) to a technically superior boxer.

sleazyfellow
12-11-2007, 09:16 AM
Muhammed ali would kick Louis' ass, enough said.

You can't compare an old brawler (a good brawler) to a technically superior boxer.

this is not a who would beat who thread. I pick louis based on the fact that he could punch, just like bert sugar said, heavyweights shouldnt go to decisions. Ali was great and all but he really didnt have that great of power, most of the times (besides cleveland williams, zora foley of course) he didnt have that one punch KO. If he did get a ko it was ususally from an accumulation of punches just like holmes did. Last i checked louis was alot more than just a brawler, he had pretty solid boxing skills (besides the dropping the left alot). Now mariciano, dempsy, and frazier were brawlers, they left themselves open to try and get a good shot in. louis was more deliberate in his approach, just cause he didnt try and pick his opponents apart like ali, srl, doesnt mean he just wasnt thinking in the ring.

Brockton Lip
12-11-2007, 09:54 AM
Louis was being out boxed by Conn (sp?) who was nothing in comparison to Ali.

Then why compare them if there isn't a comparison? They didn't fight the same, had different fundamentals, and were two very different fighters.

hhascup
12-11-2007, 01:47 PM
this is not a who would beat who thread. I pick louis based on the fact that he could punch, just like bert sugar said, heavyweights shouldnt go to decisions. Ali was great and all but he really didnt have that great of power, most of the times (besides cleveland williams, zora foley of course) he didnt have that one punch KO. If he did get a ko it was ususally from an accumulation of punches just like holmes did. Last i checked louis was alot more than just a brawler, he had pretty solid boxing skills (besides the dropping the left alot). Now mariciano, dempsy, and frazier were brawlers, they left themselves open to try and get a good shot in. louis was more deliberate in his approach, just cause he didnt try and pick his opponents apart like ali, srl, doesnt mean he just wasnt thinking in the ring.


I picked Ali over Louis for a number of reasons, one BIG one was that Ali had one of the Best Chins in Boxing History and Louis's chin was just average. If Foreman, Frazier, Shavers, Liston, etc. couldn't stop Ali, I don't think Louis would either.

Dempsey 1919
12-11-2007, 02:10 PM
I picked Ali over Louis for a number of reasons, one BIG one was that Ali had one of the Best Chins in Boxing History and Louis's chin was just average. If Foreman, Frazier, Shavers, Liston, etc. couldn't stop Ali, I don't think Louis would either.

I agree.:boxing:

them_apples
12-11-2007, 03:29 PM
Ali easily, Joe Louis is very old school and his style is out of date. Ali would dominate him.

dempsey1919
12-11-2007, 10:49 PM
Louis I had to do a reserch artical on him last year for school and after all that research I know rank him above Ali

dempsey1919
12-11-2007, 10:52 PM
Ali easily, Joe Louis is very old school and his style is out of date. Ali would dominate him.


out of date Didnt Tyson use basicly the same style as Dempsey come right out and boom your opponent scenc when did a Boxer/puncher style become out of date

Easy-E
12-12-2007, 12:32 AM
Got to go with Ali.
He had the chin to hold up to Louis' shots, the speed to land effective combinations, and the reflexes to avoid danger and open up counter oppourtounities. I dont even need to get into his footwork.
I think Ali could win by knockout, but he would more likely decision Joe.
Damn I would love to see this fight.

Easy-E
12-12-2007, 12:33 AM
I agree.:boxing:

True, and outpointing Ali in his prime?
Not even possible.

them_apples
12-12-2007, 12:48 AM
out of date Didnt Tyson use basicly the same style as Dempsey come right out and boom your opponent scenc when did a Boxer/puncher style become out of date

Yea but we aren't talking about Dempsey, we are talking about Joe Louis.

Dempsey was ahead of his time, Tyson took his style even further.

Mike Tyson77
12-12-2007, 03:04 AM
It sucks to see Louis down 46-27. Maby he will pull ahead in the polls to score a come from behind KO like the real Brown Bomber.


Both are greats either way you cut it.:boxing:

sterling
12-12-2007, 05:31 AM
hard but i would say louis cause i dont think ali would be able to not get caught in 20 rounds and once he does get caught its all over.

sleazyfellow
12-12-2007, 09:09 AM
hard but i would say louis cause i dont think ali would be able to not get caught in 20 rounds and once he does get caught its all over.

prob not, I dont think a prime ali would get caught in 20 rounds by louis, but like i said i prefer joe anyways cause of his finishes....but even if he caught ali its not like ali would stand there hurt to catch another, a prime ali has the fastest feet. He had the feet to be fleetfooted.

dempsey1919
12-12-2007, 03:51 PM
Yea but we aren't talking about Dempsey, we are talking about Joe Louis.

Dempsey was ahead of his time, Tyson took his style even further.


yeah but when did the boxer puncher style become out of date

them_apples
12-12-2007, 04:01 PM
yeah but when did the boxer puncher style become out of date

You mean brawling? Probably after the 50's.

The new punchers style involves more footwork and speed.

dempsey1919
12-12-2007, 04:02 PM
You mean brawling? Probably after the 50's.

The new punchers style involves more footwork and speed.


Have you ever seen Louis Fight he by no means was a brawler

them_apples
12-12-2007, 04:27 PM
Have you ever seen Louis Fight he by no means was a brawler

He's not as much of a brawler as say, Marciano, but Louis is hardly a modern spectacle of elite boxing. He lacks speed, his power is good but his defense is horrible.

watch a Holyfield fight then watch Louis fight, they are both "punchers" however Louis is much, much slower and has no footwork at all.

dempsey1919
12-12-2007, 05:10 PM
He's not as much of a brawler as say, Marciano, but Louis is hardly a modern spectacle of elite boxing. He lacks speed, his power is good but his defense is horrible.

watch a Holyfield fight then watch Louis fight, they are both "punchers" however Louis is much, much slower and has no footwork at all.

LMAO LMAO LMAO No Speed LMAO LMAO LMAO go do some research im ashamed I even replied to you

dempsey1919
12-12-2007, 05:11 PM
BTW even in his last fight Marciano said Louis' punches were so fast he couldnt see them comeing

Brunswick Assassin
12-14-2007, 07:29 PM
Jack Dempsey, Joe Louis and Muhammad Ali are the top 3 Greatest Heavyweights of all time! You could argue for days on end who'd be your top 3 but these guys belong there without any doubt. Hot on their heels would be Jack Johnson, Sam Langford, Rocky Marciano, Harry Greb, Jersey Joe Walcott, Young Mike Tyson and Ezzard Charles.

them_apples
12-14-2007, 08:00 PM
LMAO LMAO LMAO No Speed LMAO LMAO LMAO go do some research im ashamed I even replied to you

What are you 2 years old? It's not like I haven't seen a Louis fight. LMAO LMAO LMAO *sarcasm* I should be laughing at you for thinking Louis was fast.

Brockton Lip
12-14-2007, 08:16 PM
What are you 2 years old? It's not like I haven't seen a Louis fight. LMAO LMAO LMAO *sarcasm* I should be laughing at you for thinking Louis was fast.


I'd say his hand speed is somewhere along the line of a young Tyson.

BudWX
12-15-2007, 02:25 AM
If you watch Joe Louis fights you know he had a crushing left hook, Frazier dropped Ali with the left hook, If I remember right so did Henry Cooper, Joe would win 2/3 fights with Ali.

Mike Tyson77
12-15-2007, 03:12 AM
If you watch Joe Louis fights you know he had a crushing left hook, Frazier dropped Ali with the left hook, If I remember right so did Henry Cooper, Joe would win 2/3 fights with Ali.



Exactly! Louis was NEVER out of a fight!

cuzfozzy
12-15-2007, 05:52 AM
Louis wins
by brutal knockout
Louis would never lost to someone like leon spinks

sleazyfellow
12-15-2007, 06:32 AM
Louis wins
by brutal knockout
Louis would never lost to someone like leon spinks

LMAO, neon leon fought an old out of his prime ali.

Mike Tyson77
12-15-2007, 03:28 PM
Louis wins
by brutal knockout
Louis would never lost to someone like leon spinks


In fantasy match up, it sould be 1938 Louis vs 1967 Ali.

cuzfozzy
12-15-2007, 03:56 PM
Ali was old by the standards then ... Foreman won the belt at 42
I think Ali lost to LEon when he was 33?

Mike Tyson77
12-15-2007, 04:38 PM
Ali was old by the standards then ... Foreman won the belt at 42
I think Ali lost to LEon when he was 33?


36, and way past his prime. Ali won the rematch though.

alishuffle
07-30-2008, 02:48 PM
Ali by KO!!! Louis always had trouble with movers, and nobody moved as well as Ali. Also, Ali had deceptive power, and greater speed than anybody Joe ever faced. Louis was also very one dimensional, basically a superb by the books type of fighter, where as Ali wrote the book as he went.

Ali would head hunt and dizzy Louis until he finally collapsed much like Bonavena did. But he would make a pretty good fight out of it.

Like Ali says, " What's this about Joe Louis beating me? Slow-moving shuffling Joe Louis beat me? He may hit hard, but that don't mean nothing if you can't find nothing to hit. "

JAB5239
07-30-2008, 02:56 PM
Ali by KO!!! Louis always had trouble with movers, and nobody moved as well as Ali. Also, Ali had deceptive power, and greater speed than anybody Joe ever faced. Louis was also very one dimensional, basically a superb by the books type of fighter, where as Ali wrote the book as he went.

Ali would head hunt and dizzy Louis until he finally collapsed much like Bonavena did. But he would make a pretty good fight out of it.

Like Ali says, " What's this about Joe Louis beating me? Slow-moving shuffling Joe Louis beat me? He may hit hard, but that don't mean nothing if you can't find nothing to hit. "

If fighters like Doug Jones could give him trouble you better believe so would Joe Louis.m Im not taking anything away from Ali. The guy was great. But people sell Louis short because the don't understand his style.

warp1432
07-30-2008, 05:18 PM
If fighters like Doug Jones could give him trouble you better believe so would Joe Louis.m Im not taking anything away from Ali. The guy was great. But people sell Louis short because the don't understand his style.

I never really got the whole thing where Jones gave that many problems to Ali. It's been a while since I've seen it, but I had it like 6-4 or 7-3 for Ali. I thought it was pretty clear that he won.

Ziggy Stardust
07-31-2008, 10:09 AM
If fighters like Doug Jones could give him trouble you better believe so would Joe Louis.m Im not taking anything away from Ali. The guy was great. But people sell Louis short because the don't understand his style.

I agree. I still favor Ali because of his speed, but I don't think it's an easy fight for him and if they fought a series I don't believe Ali would sweep it. Call a ten fight series maybe 6-4 in Ali's favour.

Poet

JAB5239
07-31-2008, 02:45 PM
I agree. I still favor Ali because of his speed, but I don't think it's an easy fight for him and if they fought a series I don't believe Ali would sweep it. Call a ten fight series maybe 6-4 in Ali's favour.

Poet


I can live with that. Ali was an incredible fighter. But so wasn't Louis.

joseph5620
07-31-2008, 03:23 PM
I can live with that. Ali was an incredible fighter. But so wasn't Louis.

Jab, how many battles have you and I had on this topic old friend?:rofl:

JAB5239
07-31-2008, 03:32 PM
:notworthyJab, how many battles have you and I had on this topic old friend?:rofl:

Lol, to many my man, to many! And neither of us is still willing to budge. I wouldn't have it any other way!:notworthy

Mike Tyson77
08-05-2008, 04:33 PM
Joe Louis!!!!!!!!!!!11

Mafcherano
08-11-2008, 11:18 PM
i just cant decide
i have ali louis tyson and marciano all as joint top.......
Stupid. None of them could survive in there with the greatest. No chance, especially Marciano! Now that really is a joke.

fight_professor
11-17-2008, 10:58 PM
This is the dream fight. The 2 best HW ever. Louis is stylistically tough for Ali, technically great with a sound defence and a vicious left hook. But Ali has superior natural gifts, esp speed and movement. Ali had a better chin.

I feel, and I've read widely on both, that Ali would probably take a decision or score a late stoppage. Louis had the right style, and planned out Frazier's eventual 1971 strategy in a 1966 article on beating Ali. But peak Ali would be too quick, keep JL at bay, and crucially maximize on Louis's weaker (relative to Ali) chin.

If JL's high held hand could parry Ali's jab, it would make it amazingly interesting. But I think Ali's speed would let him thru, or he'd double up.

Ali by decision. If they thought 3 times, 2-1 Ali.

FLYBOY
11-17-2008, 11:03 PM
muhammad ali by KO

fight_professor
11-17-2008, 11:12 PM
Its possible in the later rounds. Ali fought and beat 3 possible top 10 HW's (Liston, Joe and Foreman). Louis didnt a top 10 alltime HW based on broad rankings.