View Full Version : Politics and Current Events Thread


SonnyG8R
06-24-2006, 10:58 PM
This is the place to talk Politics and current events.

To start with you can let us know your general political philosophy and perhaps where you get most of your news info. (That tells a lot) ;)

Ok, I consider myself a moderate but perhaps leaning toward the conservative side on fiscal issues, toward the left on war/military issues and almost dead center on social issues.

I like to watch CNN, MSNBC and Fox.

Also read USA Today.

SLIMZ
06-25-2006, 01:33 PM
my second choice in college is studying politics (political science perhaps), but i end up in the other side of the world. i don't know why.

2nd II none
06-25-2006, 01:40 PM
I don't get into political discussions because people's views on certain things are usually ignorant and uninformed.I'm not saying that any of the views in here are but usually.

* FeistyWench *
06-25-2006, 01:44 PM
my second choice in college is studying politics (political science perhaps), but i end up in the other side of the world. i don't know why.
what do you mean?

what you studying now?

K-DOGG
06-25-2006, 02:03 PM
I am a firm supporter of human rights and civil rights; but am against anything perceived as preferential treatment. I will always side with the citizens over business because I grew up in that school of thought: if labor is happy and rewarded for their work and treated fairly, the company will profit as a result. I'm all about job security in that if a company signed with the union to guarantee health insurance for the remainder of the employee's life, even after they retire, the company has an obligation to fullfill that promise. In other words...Power to the People.

For news, I follow local news and BBC world news. My reasoning is that on the BBC, there will be no American political spin because they have no reason to do such a thing where as domestic news channels have become so tainted, it's not even funny.

I believe in capitalism with a leash. Pure capitalism is just as detrimental to society as pure communism. Moderation and a balance between the two philosophies is the only way to go. As long as society is providing income to the government, the people are entitled to being aided by the government. I also the people need a louder voice in how the money's are spent.

The Government should serve the people...We are the boss.

SLIMZ
06-25-2006, 02:04 PM
what do you mean?

what you studying now?

i've finished molecular biology, and end up doing documents for doctors who are very busy & don't have time to transcript their patients history records but still find time to go out on a night party every saturday night.

The Noose
06-25-2006, 02:06 PM
The Government should serve the people...We are the boss.

But do people realise this?

Here in the UK i dont think most young people do.

SLIMZ
06-25-2006, 02:09 PM
an exerpt from "B.Y.O.B"

"...why don't presidents fight the war, why do they always sent the poor.."

2nd II none
06-25-2006, 02:10 PM
What people don't realize is that it doesn't matter what they're views are or who they vote for.Every politician is corrupt or will be corrupted by money and greed.Nothing any of us do or say will ever change it either it's been going on for too long.

K-DOGG
06-25-2006, 02:40 PM
But do people realise this?

Here in the UK i dont think most young people do.

My friend, sadly enough...they do not. The youth of America, by an large, have been so hyptnotized by consumerism that very few actually are aware of anything political or how important it is to be involved and aware of the government's activities...and seem to be under the impression that they can do nothing. From what I can gather, most are more concerned about having the best of things and not worrying about the debt and how that will affect them later in life. Under one umbrella: Me, Me, Me. There are no thoughts of "us". America's youth is generally a self-centered generation who likes to blame their problems on the generation before without asking the question, "What can I do to improve things?" Of course, this is a generalization; but I would say it's pretty accurate, unfortunately.

Sense of community has gone by the wayside.

* FeistyWench *
06-25-2006, 02:48 PM
My friend, sadly enough...they do not. The youth of America, by an large, have been so hyptnotized by consumerism that very few actually are aware of anything political or how important it is to be involved and aware of the government's activities...and seem to be under the impression that they can do nothing. From what I can gather, most are more concerned about having the best of things and not worrying about the debt and how that will affect them later in life. Under one umbrella: Me, Me, Me. There are no thoughts of "us". America's youth is generally a self-centered generation who likes to blame their problems on the generation before without asking the question, "What can I do to improve things?" Of course, this is a generalization; but I would say it's pretty accurate, unfortunately.

Sense of community has gone by the wayside.
i love how articulate and precise you are K-Dogg.
i have a hard time putting my thoughts and ideas in writing, except when i am writing reports for work. that comes very naturally, but then again it's not the same thing.

K-DOGG
06-25-2006, 02:55 PM
i love how articulate and precise you are K-Dogg.
i have a hard time putting my thoughts and ideas in writing, except when i am writing reports for work. that comes very naturally, but then again it's not the same thing.

Why, thank you rogue or Fiesty Wench, whichever you prefer. You are too kind and you are an excellent communicator yourself, btw. :D

* FeistyWench *
06-25-2006, 03:11 PM
Why, thank you rogue or Fiesty Wench, whichever you prefer. You are too kind and you are an excellent communicator yourself, btw. :D
lol! thanks. :o

The Noose
06-25-2006, 04:02 PM
If only poiticians were as cool as us.

K-DOGG
06-25-2006, 04:05 PM
If only poiticians were as cool as us.

LOL!!! The sad thing is, some of them probably did start off cool; but when they got on the inside they got caught up in "the game".


Beware the Dark-Side! :D

The Noose
06-25-2006, 04:16 PM
LOL!!! The sad thing is, some of them probably did start off cool; but when they got on the inside they got caught up in "the game".


Beware the Dark-Side! :D

Yea, also the pressure to say the 'right' thing. I always feel they are trying to save thier own ass.
There seems to be no such thing as a politcian speaking their mind, or giving a simple answer.

Theyre all robots.

K-DOGG
06-25-2006, 04:24 PM
Yea, also the pressure to say the 'right' thing. I always feel they are trying to save thier own ass.
There seems to be no such thing as a politcian speaking their mind, or giving a simple answer.

Theyre all robots.

Robert Kennedy, I think, was heading down the road of actual civil service in 1968; but that was quickly put to an end. :(

SonnyG8R
06-26-2006, 12:35 AM
This is a hot topic but I will throw it out there anyway because it is in the news.

**Remember keep discussions respectful.**

From N.Y. to S.F., a weekend of gay pride

NEW YORK - Tens of thousands of raucous parade-goers braved a steady downpour and lined Fifth Avenue on Sunday for the annual gay pride parade, an event that comes just weeks after an attack on a popular gay singer and the 25th anniversary of the start of the AIDS epidemic.

Outrageous costumes were abundant all along the parade route, including men in short skirts and tiaras and long-legged drag queens in knee-high boots. The floats and marchers also turned Fifth Avenue into a sea of rainbows.

“Everyone else has a chance to express their affection freely, and for one day in New York, you can be free and not feel ashamed or embarrassed,” said Roberto Hermosilla of Miami, who was attending his ninth parade.

It was one of several gay pride parades around the country this weekend, including a similar-size one in San Francisco.

The theme of New York’s Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender Pride March was “The Fight for Love and Life,” but there was plenty of talk about hate following the suspected gay-bashing attack of singer Kevin Aviance last month in Manhattan. Aviance has recovered and was expected to take part in the parade.

“A few hateful homophobes will not set us back,” said City Council Speaker Christine Quinn, who is openly gay and marched in the parade.

Greater focus on HIV and AIDS
The parade also took place just weeks after the 25th anniversary of the start of the AIDS epidemic, and city leaders used the event to call for a greater focus on combating HIV and AIDS.

On Saturday, thousands gathered for the 25th Stonewall Columbus parade in Ohio. Michael Eblin, marching in his first parade, followed a black Hummer pulling a float of men. A cross-dresser in a beaded white gown perched atop the vehicle, holding a sign reading “The Closet.”

“For the first time, I’m going to be part of a majority,” the 18-year-old Eblin said just before the parade began.

A boy along the route wearing blue tie-dye held up a sign: “2 Moms. 2 Dads. Too Cool.”

The New York parade attracted diverse segments of the gay community. One contingent was a group of former and current yeshiva students who held up signs saying, “Jewish? Orthodox? Gay? You are not alone.”

The parades commemorate the Stonewall uprising of 1969, when patrons of a New York gay bar resisted a police raid.

‘Apex of gay visibility’
The New York Police Department said reports of anti-gay bias crimes totaled 25 through mid-June — compared with 19 over the same period in 2005.

But Clarence Patton, executive director of the New York City Gay & Lesbian Anti-Violence Project, said anti-gay and transgender incidents tend to ****e in June because of the high-profile events that are held such as the parade.

“It’s like the apex of gay visibility,” he said.

SonnyG8R
06-26-2006, 12:38 AM
I will just throw this out there, I am glad I live in a small town on days like today because I don't have to explain to my kids why those men are kissing.

Bonafide
06-26-2006, 01:58 AM
This is a hot topic but I will throw it out there anyway because it is in the news. Remember keep discussions respectful.

From N.Y. to S.F., a weekend of gay pride

NEW YORK - Tens of thousands of raucous parade-goers braved a steady downpour and lined Fifth Avenue on Sunday for the annual gay pride parade, an event that comes just weeks after an attack on a popular gay singer and the 25th anniversary of the start of the AIDS epidemic.

Outrageous costumes were abundant all along the parade route, including men in short skirts and tiaras and long-legged drag queens in knee-high boots. The floats and marchers also turned Fifth Avenue into a sea of rainbows.

“Everyone else has a chance to express their affection freely, and for one day in New York, you can be free and not feel ashamed or embarrassed,” said Roberto Hermosilla of Miami, who was attending his ninth parade.

It was one of several gay pride parades around the country this weekend, including a similar-size one in San Francisco.

The theme of New York’s Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender Pride March was “The Fight for Love and Life,” but there was plenty of talk about hate following the suspected gay-bashing attack of singer Kevin Aviance last month in Manhattan. Aviance has recovered and was expected to take part in the parade.

“A few hateful homophobes will not set us back,” said City Council Speaker Christine Quinn, who is openly gay and marched in the parade.

Greater focus on HIV and AIDS
The parade also took place just weeks after the 25th anniversary of the start of the AIDS epidemic, and city leaders used the event to call for a greater focus on combating HIV and AIDS.

On Saturday, thousands gathered for the 25th Stonewall Columbus parade in Ohio. Michael Eblin, marching in his first parade, followed a black Hummer pulling a float of men. A cross-dresser in a beaded white gown perched atop the vehicle, holding a sign reading “The Closet.”

“For the first time, I’m going to be part of a majority,” the 18-year-old Eblin said just before the parade began.

A boy along the route wearing blue tie-dye held up a sign: “2 Moms. 2 Dads. Too Cool.”

The New York parade attracted diverse segments of the gay community. One contingent was a group of former and current yeshiva students who held up signs saying, “Jewish? Orthodox? Gay? You are not alone.”

The parades commemorate the Stonewall uprising of 1969, when patrons of a New York gay bar resisted a police raid.

‘Apex of gay visibility’
The New York Police Department said reports of anti-gay bias crimes totaled 25 through mid-June — compared with 19 over the same period in 2005.

But Clarence Patton, executive director of the New York City Gay & Lesbian Anti-Violence Project, said anti-gay and transgender incidents tend to ****e in June because of the high-profile events that are held such as the parade.

“It’s like the apex of gay visibility,” he said.


I too have a son and wouldnt know how to explain it. Besides that , We have that **** here in Vancouver too except its called Gay Pride Day Parade and it may include a few thousand but from the looks of it there in NYC and San Fran it is the Superbowl of Gay Day with tens of thousands ? Holy ****balls !

LoftyDog
06-26-2006, 02:25 AM
I guess I'll tell you all about myself. I'm a political science major right now and if I pass the one class I'm taking over the summer I'll get my associates in criminal justice. I consider myself a moderate, but many times I can go left or right, depending on the issue.

As for the article that sonny posted, it doesn't surprise me what is going on in NYC, but it does seem out there considereing what I am used to; and I'm about an hour or so from there. I try to put myself in their shows but in reality I can't, so I still can't see why they have a need to demonstrate.

The Noose
06-26-2006, 10:49 AM
Is this a political issue or a moral one?
Or is there a difference?

I believe that somehow young people need to be edjucated about people who are different from them, especially concerning minorities.

But where does that happen? In schools or at home? A big parade in the middle of the street? lol.
Probably not!, but i dont have a problem with that.
Two guys fighting is worse than two guys kissing IMO.

K-DOGG
06-26-2006, 11:02 AM
This is a hot topic but I will throw it out there anyway because it is in the news. Remember keep discussions respectful.

From N.Y. to S.F., a weekend of gay pride

NEW YORK - Tens of thousands of raucous parade-goers braved a steady downpour and lined Fifth Avenue on Sunday for the annual gay pride parade, an event that comes just weeks after an attack on a popular gay singer and the 25th anniversary of the start of the AIDS epidemic.

Outrageous costumes were abundant all along the parade route, including men in short skirts and tiaras and long-legged drag queens in knee-high boots. The floats and marchers also turned Fifth Avenue into a sea of rainbows.

“Everyone else has a chance to express their affection freely, and for one day in New York, you can be free and not feel ashamed or embarrassed,” said Roberto Hermosilla of Miami, who was attending his ninth parade.

It was one of several gay pride parades around the country this weekend, including a similar-size one in San Francisco.

The theme of New York’s Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender Pride March was “The Fight for Love and Life,” but there was plenty of talk about hate following the suspected gay-bashing attack of singer Kevin Aviance last month in Manhattan. Aviance has recovered and was expected to take part in the parade.

“A few hateful homophobes will not set us back,” said City Council Speaker Christine Quinn, who is openly gay and marched in the parade.

Greater focus on HIV and AIDS
The parade also took place just weeks after the 25th anniversary of the start of the AIDS epidemic, and city leaders used the event to call for a greater focus on combating HIV and AIDS.

On Saturday, thousands gathered for the 25th Stonewall Columbus parade in Ohio. Michael Eblin, marching in his first parade, followed a black Hummer pulling a float of men. A cross-dresser in a beaded white gown perched atop the vehicle, holding a sign reading “The Closet.”

“For the first time, I’m going to be part of a majority,” the 18-year-old Eblin said just before the parade began.

A boy along the route wearing blue tie-dye held up a sign: “2 Moms. 2 Dads. Too Cool.”

The New York parade attracted diverse segments of the gay community. One contingent was a group of former and current yeshiva students who held up signs saying, “Jewish? Orthodox? Gay? You are not alone.”

The parades commemorate the Stonewall uprising of 1969, when patrons of a New York gay bar resisted a police raid.

‘Apex of gay visibility’
The New York Police Department said reports of anti-gay bias crimes totaled 25 through mid-June — compared with 19 over the same period in 2005.

But Clarence Patton, executive director of the New York City Gay & Lesbian Anti-Violence Project, said anti-gay and transgender incidents tend to ****e in June because of the high-profile events that are held such as the parade.

“It’s like the apex of gay visibility,” he said.

Sorry to hear about the singer.

Hate is hate; and if gays are hated for being gay, that's just as wrong as hating a person for being a Jew or being a Muslim or being Black or Chinese or whatever. There is no room for hate in this world, yet we overflow with it. There are plenty of people to dispise and be mad at and seek justice against who have committed countless crimes and acts of injustice upon the innocent without having to release such a violence-laden emotion on a group of people for the sole reason of their difference from the accepted norm.

Good for the Gays. The parades put them out there for heteros to see; and while there might be some negative reactions of disgust and misunderstanding, the only way to defeat ignorance which gives birth to hate is through positive exposure and education. If you see your gay neighbor is essentially the same as you as a human and that his/her sexual preference doesn't have anything to do with their personal character, the more likely you are to accept them as fellow humans. Acceptance of all forms of humanity, regardless of race, color, creed, religion, and sexual orientation is the key to peace....which is what we all need.

* FeistyWench *
06-26-2006, 11:27 AM
Sorry to hear about the singer.

Hate is hate; and if gays are hated for being gay, that's just as wrong as hating a person for being a Jew or being a Muslim or being Black or Chinese or whatever. There is no room for hate in this world, yet we overflow with it. There are plenty of people to dispise and be mad at and seek justice against who have committed countless crimes and acts of injustice upon the innocent without having to release such a violence-laden emotion on a group of people for the sole reason of their difference from the accepted norm.

Good for the Gays. The parades put them out there for heteros to see; and while there might be some negative reactions of disgust and misunderstanding, the only way to defeat ignorance which gives birth to hate is through positive exposure and education. If you see your gay neighbor is essentially the same as you as a human and that his/her sexual preference doesn't have anything to do with their personal character, the more likely you are to accept them as fellow humans. Acceptance of all forms of humanity, regardless of race, color, creed, religion, and sexual orientation is the key to peace....which is what we all need.
once again, i agree with you K-Dogg.

i have had gay and lesbian friends (not currently because we grew apart when i moved here to BFE, lol!), so you can tell where i am on this issue. but i must say that when i hear about violence against children or see a clip of it on TV (news) or in a movie, it physically makes me sick and angry.

but almost as bad is the sickness and anger i feel when i watch a news clip or movie about unprovoked hate crimes and violence against minorities, homosexuals, or religious groups - basically a hate crime against someone due to some sort of prejudice and nothing else. i can barely watch it. the depths of blind hatred toward another human being for being different in some way just astounds me and makes me ashamed.

K-DOGG
06-26-2006, 11:43 AM
once again, i agree with you K-Dogg.

i have had gay and lesbian friends (not currently because we grew apart when i moved here to BFE, lol!), so you can tell where i am on this issue. but i must say that when i hear about violence against children or see a clip of it on TV (news) or in a movie, it physically makes me sick and angry.

but almost as bad is the sickness and anger i feel when i watch a news clip or movie about unprovoked hate crimes and violence against minorities, homosexuals, or religious groups - basically a hate crime against someone due to some sort of prejudice and nothing else. i can barely watch it. the depths of blind hatred toward another human being for being different in some way just astounds me and makes me ashamed.

Here's the bright side...more and more people are growing into that feeling you just described you feel at such atrocities. So, we, as a society, are moving forward, if ever so slowly...but we are moving forward.

SonnyG8R
06-26-2006, 06:35 PM
I'm not promoting hate crimes against homosexuals or anyone else. You guys are taking a stand which is very easy to defend. Only a lunatic wants to go out and torture or kill somebody just for being different. I think it is great for children to be socialized to respect people of other races and religions both in school and the home. But I do not want my children to be taught about sex of any kind in school at the tender ages of 7 & 8. I sure as hell do not want them taught that homosexuality is a perfectly acceptable alternative lifestyle as is happening in some public school districts. Those discussions are best left to the parents.

As for the "parades", I'm glad those are held far away from my little town. I've been in NYC during one of their parades and they are extremely risque. No place for children in my opinion.

SonnyG8R
06-26-2006, 06:40 PM
once again, i agree with you K-Dogg.

i have had gay and lesbian friends (not currently because we grew apart when i moved here to BFE, lol!), so you can tell where i am on this issue. but i must say that when i hear about violence against children or see a clip of it on TV (news) or in a movie, it physically makes me sick and angry.
but almost as bad is the sickness and anger i feel when i watch a news clip or movie about unprovoked hate crimes and violence against minorities, homosexuals, or religious groups - basically a hate crime against someone due to some sort of prejudice and nothing else. i can barely watch it. the depths of blind hatred toward another human being for being different in some way just astounds me and makes me ashamed.


I feel the same way about child abuse. I can't even watch a show about it on tv because it gets me so upset. The last one I saw was about those ****ing Munchausen syndrome by proxy people. I wanted to jump through the tv and rip their shriveled up black hearts right out of their chests.

* FeistyWench *
06-26-2006, 07:19 PM
I'm not promoting hate crimes against homosexuals or anyone else. You guys are taking a stand which is very easy to defend. Only a lunatic wants to go out and torture or kill somebody just for being different. I think it is great for children to be socialized to respect people of other races and religions both in school and the home. But I do not want my children to be taught about sex of any kind in school at the tender ages of 7 & 8. I sure as hell do not want them taught that homosexuality is a perfectly acceptable alternative lifestyle as is happening in some public school districts. Those discussions are best left to the parents.

As for the "parades", I'm glad those are held far away from my little town. I've been in NYC during one of their parades and they are extremely risque. No place for children in my opinion.
i respect your opinion and i was definitely not suggesting that you think violence against these people are okay.
i was just referring to those really prejudiced people out there that actually commit hate crimes.

* FeistyWench *
06-26-2006, 07:27 PM
I feel the same way about child abuse. I can't even watch a show about it on tv because it gets me so upset. The last one I saw was about those ****ing Munchausen syndrome by proxy people. I wanted to jump through the tv and rip their shriveled up black hearts right out of their chests.
i've actually had to deal with 2 differnt mothers who have this. i have to make an effort not inflict bodily harm on these people.

SonnyG8R
06-26-2006, 07:31 PM
i respect your opinion and i was definitely not suggesting that you think violence against these people are okay.
i was just referring to those really prejudiced people out there that actually commit hate crimes.


Oh I know you weren't.

Happily I've never even known anyone personally who was like that.

SonnyG8R
06-26-2006, 07:37 PM
Here is a question.

Who has become numb to stories like this. Are you completely desensitized.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/06/26/iraq.main/index.html

I hate to adMit it, but I fear I may be.

K-DOGG
06-26-2006, 07:38 PM
I'm not promoting hate crimes against homosexuals or anyone else. You guys are taking a stand which is very easy to defend. Only a lunatic wants to go out and torture or kill somebody just for being different. I think it is great for children to be socialized to respect people of other races and religions both in school and the home. But I do not want my children to be taught about sex of any kind in school at the tender ages of 7 & 8. I sure as hell do not want them taught that homosexuality is a perfectly acceptable alternative lifestyle as is happening in some public school districts. Those discussions are best left to the parents.

As for the "parades", I'm glad those are held far away from my little town. I've been in NYC during one of their parades and they are extremely risque. No place for children in my opinion.

I can understand your point; and true, those parades are no place for kids; but as far as kids being taught in school that being gay is an acceptable lifestyle...

1.) Even if it is, if your kid isn't gay, he's not gonna become gay just because he's told there's nothing wrong with it. You're either gay or you're not.

2.) Isn't it better for a child to be taught tolerence of others in school rather than to be taught "these people are freaks", which would tend to encourage the child to have "outcast feelings towards homosexuals and could encourage him, subconsciously, that it's okay to be intolerant of them, or worse, that it's okay to pick on them becasuse they're "not normal"?

3.) If your child is gay, wouldn't it be better for his self esteem and his wallet (avoiding all that therapy) if he learns early on that it's okay to be the way he/she is?


I mean, it's your child and he/she's gonna hold your opinion highest anyway. I was taught about evolution in school; and while I don't discount science, it was my parents teaching me of God that holds true to this day.


Just a thought or two.

K-DOGG
06-26-2006, 07:42 PM
Here is a question.

Who has become numb to stories like this. Are you completely desensitized.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/06/26/iraq.main/index.html

I hate to adMit it, but I fear I may be.

I'm not desensitized to it; but I have to "not focus on it" because I feel helpless to do anything about it. I hate that all those people are dying; and I really hate that the whole Iraq situation is not helping their opinion of us in the short-run. Who knows the long-run effects; but I seriously doubt that the "insurgents" are being solely blamed for their own actions by the bulk of the Iraqi people. If we weren't there, none of this would be happening is the bottom line. Yeah, I know, Saddam was a tyrant and we did 'em a favor and all of the reason's we're there is old news; but, if you're an Iraqi with an Iraqi mindset, odds are you aren't going to look at all the bloodshed the way we do.

The Noose
06-26-2006, 09:25 PM
I can understand your point; and true, those parades are no place for kids; but as far as kids being taught in school that being gay is an acceptable lifestyle...

1.) Even if it is, if your kid isn't gay, he's not gonna become gay just because he's told there's nothing wrong with it. You're either gay or you're not.

2.) Isn't it better for a child to be taught tolerence of others in school rather than to be taught "these people are freaks", which would tend to encourage the child to have "outcast feelings towards homosexuals and could encourage him, subconsciously, that it's okay to be intolerant of them, or worse, that it's okay to pick on them becasuse they're "not normal"?

3.) If your child is gay, wouldn't it be better for his self esteem and his wallet (avoiding all that therapy) if he learns early on that it's okay to be the way he/she is?


I mean, it's your child and he/she's gonna hold your opinion highest anyway. I was taught about evolution in school; and while I don't discount science, it was my parents teaching me of God that holds true to this day.


Just a thought or two.


I swear the karma button was invented for you!

Actually....what does that K stand for?

The Noose
06-26-2006, 09:30 PM
Here is a question.

Who has become numb to stories like this. Are you completely desensitized.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/06/26/iraq.main/index.html

I hate to adMit it, but I fear I may be.

I am so desensitized to that and almost every other story i read in the news.
Its ****ed up, but i think most people dont bother to even think if there is anything they can do to help or change things. Even local issues.

neils7147933
06-26-2006, 09:37 PM
I guess I'll tell you all about myself. I'm a political science major right now and if I pass the one class I'm taking over the summer I'll get my associates in criminal justice. I consider myself a moderate, but many times I can go left or right, depending on the issue.

As for the article that sonny posted, it doesn't surprise me what is going on in NYC, but it does seem out there considereing what I am used to; and I'm about an hour or so from there. I try to put myself in their shows but in reality I can't, so I still can't see why they have a need to demonstrate.
They are demonstrating the strengths that they have in numbers and how that affects various social policies, creating awareness for people who like to pretend that people like that don't exist in their communities, and celebrating, that, although still victims of generally socially accepted prejudice - that they can be who they are in public in 2006, which is a relatively new development...

BBKing
06-27-2006, 12:00 PM
They are demonstrating the strengths that they have in numbers and how that affects various social policies, creating awareness for people who like to pretend that people like that don't exist in their communities, and celebrating, that, although still victims of generally socially accepted prejudice - that they can be who they are in public in 2006, which is a relatively new development...

A few exist in my community, but thankfully the have enough courtesy not to flaunt their ways in public. Those parads are nothing but a "look how outrageous I can be" contest. If Homos really wanted to send a message that they are just normal folks like everyone else they would dress and behave properly. Instead they send the message "we are total freaks of nature and we are going to show you just how inappropriate we can dress and behave". Great message for those seeking acceptance. :D

BBKing
06-27-2006, 12:17 PM
The mounting deaths in Iraq are tragic but the stories have definitely lost their impactfullness. It's like the stories you hear about Middle East aggreements between Palistinians and Israelis and how there is an outline for a lasting peace. I used to get opptimistic. But through the years the stories have come to elicit the the more cynical emotion of "yeah, I'll believe it when I see it". Or how about when our country's security level goes from "yellow" to "orange" or whatever. I know it doesn't change the way I go about my daily routine one bit. It's just like this scare tactic to reminsd us the war on terror isn't over and if we wan't "win" we better keep voting Republican. :p

K-DOGG
06-27-2006, 12:22 PM
I swear the karma button was invented for you!

Actually....what does that K stand for?

Thank you; but I merely try to speak what I believe to be the truth.

The "K". Well, I wish I could give you a great story behind it; but, ultimately, K-DOGG is what some of my co-workers started calling me a few years ago and I just decided to use it. "K" is the first letter in my first name. Sorry it wasn't more.

SonnyG8R
06-27-2006, 09:20 PM
Flag amendment fails by one vote
Compromise measure that would have left Constitution unaltered also fails

WASHINGTON - A constitutional amendment to ban flag desecration died in a Senate cliffhanger Tuesday, a single vote short of the support needed to send it to the states for ratification a week before Independence Day.

The 66-34 tally in favor of the amendment was one less than the two-thirds required. The House surpassed that threshold last year, 286-130.

The proposed amendment, sponsored by Sen. Orrin Hatch, R-Utah, read: "The Congress shall have power to prohibit the physical desecration of the flag of the United States."

Latest best bet
The resolution represented Congress' response to Supreme Court rulings in 1989 and 1990 that burning and other desecrations of the flag are protected as free speech by the First Amendment to the Constitution.

Senate supporters said the flag amounts to a national monument in cloth that represents freedom and the sacrifice of American troops.

"Countless men and women have died defending that flag," said Majority Leader Bill Frist, R-Tenn., closing two days of debate. "It is but a small humble act for us to defend it."


Opposition wins out
Opponents said the amendment would violate the First Amendment right to free speech. And some Democrats complained that majority Republicans were exploiting people's patriotism for political advantage in November's midterm elections.

"Our country's unique because our dissidents have a voice," said Sen. Daniel Inouye, D-Hawaii, a World War II veteran who lost an arm in the war and was decorated with the Medal of Honor.

"While I take offense at disrespect to the flag," he said, "I nonetheless believe it is my continued duty as a veteran, as an American citizen and as a United States senator to defend the constitutional right of protesters to use the flag in nonviolent speech."

Alternative also fails
The Senate also rejected an alternative put forward by assistant Democratic leader Dick Durbin of Illinois. The bill, not a constitutional amendment, would have made it against the law to damage the flag on federal land or with the intent of breaching the peace or intimidation. It also would have prohibited unapproved demonstrations at military funerals. The vote was 36-64.

The last time the Senate considered the amendment, in 2000, it fell four votes short of what was needed. Both sides predicted correctly before Tuesday's vote that it would get more support.

The last proposed constitutional amendment that Congress sent to the states for ratification was the Equal Rights Amendment in 1972. The normal seven-year deadline for state ratification was extended to 1982, but the ERA couldn't muster the approval of more than 35 state legislatures, three short of the three-fourths of states required under the Constitution.

The 26th Amendment, guaranteeing 18-year-olds the right to vote, was approved by Congress in March 1971 and was ratified by the states less than four months later.

The 27th Amendment, ratified in 1992, was first proposed in 1789. It says pay raises that Congress votes for itself can't take effect until after the next election for members of the House.

Related action
The House also got into the July Fourth spirit Tuesday by passing on a voice vote a measure that would bar condominium and homeowner associations from restricting how the flag can be displayed.

Sponsored by Rep. Roscoe Bartlett, R-Md., the resolution would prohibit those groups from preventing residents from displaying an American flag on their own property. The Senate is considering whether to bring up the measure this year.

What are your thoughts? Personally I would never burn an American flag and I think it is reprehensible. But I don't think we need an amendment to protect the flag.

BrooklynBomber
06-27-2006, 09:44 PM
Here is a question.

Who has become numb to stories like this. Are you completely desensitized.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/06/26/iraq.main/index.html

I hate to adMit it, but I fear I may be.
I am an immirgrant, and I come from a country, where terrorist acts were quite common(and I mean very common), especially in the middle 90's, moreover, when I was 10, a food store on my block was blown up and I even got caught by piece of glass, and well, since age of about 8-9 I got very numb towards these stories, because every night, there would be a story that place A was blown up and businessman B was shot and bunch of people around him were killed too, this is nothing new, we adopt to the settings around us, and all these stories, even though horroble, are just a setting, they are something bad but far away.
In America people really started paying attention to terroirsm on large scale after 9-11, but, from where I came from there was Budenovsk(do the research and get horrifeid) way before the 9-11, where the explosions in apartment complexes(huge buildings where upto a couple of thousands can live) and many other horrible terrorist acts were performed, people were getting used to it.
It is nothing new....

neils7147933
06-27-2006, 10:27 PM
Flag amendment fails by one vote
Compromise measure that would have left Constitution unaltered also fails

WASHINGTON - A constitutional amendment to ban flag desecration died in a Senate cliffhanger Tuesday, a single vote short of the support needed to send it to the states for ratification a week before Independence Day.

The 66-34 tally in favor of the amendment was one less than the two-thirds required. The House surpassed that threshold last year, 286-130.

The proposed amendment, sponsored by Sen. Orrin Hatch, R-Utah, read: "The Congress shall have power to prohibit the physical desecration of the flag of the United States."

Latest best bet
The resolution represented Congress' response to Supreme Court rulings in 1989 and 1990 that burning and other desecrations of the flag are protected as free speech by the First Amendment to the Constitution.

Senate supporters said the flag amounts to a national monument in cloth that represents freedom and the sacrifice of American troops.

"Countless men and women have died defending that flag," said Majority Leader Bill Frist, R-Tenn., closing two days of debate. "It is but a small humble act for us to defend it."


Opposition wins out
Opponents said the amendment would violate the First Amendment right to free speech. And some Democrats complained that majority Republicans were exploiting people's patriotism for political advantage in November's midterm elections.

"Our country's unique because our dissidents have a voice," said Sen. Daniel Inouye, D-Hawaii, a World War II veteran who lost an arm in the war and was decorated with the Medal of Honor.

"While I take offense at disrespect to the flag," he said, "I nonetheless believe it is my continued duty as a veteran, as an American citizen and as a United States senator to defend the constitutional right of protesters to use the flag in nonviolent speech."

Alternative also fails
The Senate also rejected an alternative put forward by assistant Democratic leader Dick Durbin of Illinois. The bill, not a constitutional amendment, would have made it against the law to damage the flag on federal land or with the intent of breaching the peace or intimidation. It also would have prohibited unapproved demonstrations at military funerals. The vote was 36-64.

The last time the Senate considered the amendment, in 2000, it fell four votes short of what was needed. Both sides predicted correctly before Tuesday's vote that it would get more support.

The last proposed constitutional amendment that Congress sent to the states for ratification was the Equal Rights Amendment in 1972. The normal seven-year deadline for state ratification was extended to 1982, but the ERA couldn't muster the approval of more than 35 state legislatures, three short of the three-fourths of states required under the Constitution.

The 26th Amendment, guaranteeing 18-year-olds the right to vote, was approved by Congress in March 1971 and was ratified by the states less than four months later.

The 27th Amendment, ratified in 1992, was first proposed in 1789. It says pay raises that Congress votes for itself can't take effect until after the next election for members of the House.

Related action
The House also got into the July Fourth spirit Tuesday by passing on a voice vote a measure that would bar condominium and homeowner associations from restricting how the flag can be displayed.

Sponsored by Rep. Roscoe Bartlett, R-Md., the resolution would prohibit those groups from preventing residents from displaying an American flag on their own property. The Senate is considering whether to bring up the measure this year.

What are your thoughts? Personally I would never burn an American flag and I think it is reprehensible. But I don't think we need an amendment to protect the flag.
What an absolute waste of time. We've got this war on terror thing going on, we've got abuse of presidential powers, we have an immigration debate, and the most important thing these guys can play with is tearing or buring a piece of cloth? Ridiculous...

BrooklynBomber
06-27-2006, 10:30 PM
What an absolute waste of time. We've got this war on terror thing going on, we've got abuse of presidential powers, we have an immigration debate, and the most important thing these guys can play with is tearing or buring a piece of cloth? Ridiculous...
Guys are just trying to score points with the solid south, cause obviously, they are losing it.

Explosivo
06-28-2006, 02:57 PM
What an absolute waste of time. We've got this war on terror thing going on, we've got abuse of presidential powers, we have an immigration debate, and the most important thing these guys can play with is tearing or buring a piece of cloth? Ridiculous...

I agree. What a waste of time. Who is burning flags these days anyways? The only people I ever see burning American flags are the ****ers in the middle east and a constitutional ammendment isnt going to stop them. We have much more important things going on in this country to be worried about than flag burning.

As a matter of fact, I dont think the losers we have in Washington now should even have the power to pass a constitutional ammendment. I dont think they deserve that kind of priviledge.

Dirt E Gomez
06-28-2006, 06:47 PM
While this is a lil' bit late since it got shot down, I found this very ammusing:

http://www.scalzi.com/whatever/003585.html

For the record, I've never burned a flag and I never really encouraged people to flag burn. That being said, if they had passed an amendment I'd be burning flags and such like a mother ****er.

BBKing
06-29-2006, 02:52 PM
Justices say Bush went too far at Guantanamo

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13592908/from/RS.1/

What do you think will happen to all the detainees?

K-DOGG
06-29-2006, 03:00 PM
Flag amendment fails by one vote
Compromise measure that would have left Constitution unaltered also fails

WASHINGTON - A constitutional amendment to ban flag desecration died in a Senate cliffhanger Tuesday, a single vote short of the support needed to send it to the states for ratification a week before Independence Day.

The 66-34 tally in favor of the amendment was one less than the two-thirds required. The House surpassed that threshold last year, 286-130.

The proposed amendment, sponsored by Sen. Orrin Hatch, R-Utah, read: "The Congress shall have power to prohibit the physical desecration of the flag of the United States."

Latest best bet
The resolution represented Congress' response to Supreme Court rulings in 1989 and 1990 that burning and other desecrations of the flag are protected as free speech by the First Amendment to the Constitution.

Senate supporters said the flag amounts to a national monument in cloth that represents freedom and the sacrifice of American troops.

"Countless men and women have died defending that flag," said Majority Leader Bill Frist, R-Tenn., closing two days of debate. "It is but a small humble act for us to defend it."


Opposition wins out
Opponents said the amendment would violate the First Amendment right to free speech. And some Democrats complained that majority Republicans were exploiting people's patriotism for political advantage in November's midterm elections.

"Our country's unique because our dissidents have a voice," said Sen. Daniel Inouye, D-Hawaii, a World War II veteran who lost an arm in the war and was decorated with the Medal of Honor.

"While I take offense at disrespect to the flag," he said, "I nonetheless believe it is my continued duty as a veteran, as an American citizen and as a United States senator to defend the constitutional right of protesters to use the flag in nonviolent speech."

Alternative also fails
The Senate also rejected an alternative put forward by assistant Democratic leader Dick Durbin of Illinois. The bill, not a constitutional amendment, would have made it against the law to damage the flag on federal land or with the intent of breaching the peace or intimidation. It also would have prohibited unapproved demonstrations at military funerals. The vote was 36-64.

The last time the Senate considered the amendment, in 2000, it fell four votes short of what was needed. Both sides predicted correctly before Tuesday's vote that it would get more support.

The last proposed constitutional amendment that Congress sent to the states for ratification was the Equal Rights Amendment in 1972. The normal seven-year deadline for state ratification was extended to 1982, but the ERA couldn't muster the approval of more than 35 state legislatures, three short of the three-fourths of states required under the Constitution.

The 26th Amendment, guaranteeing 18-year-olds the right to vote, was approved by Congress in March 1971 and was ratified by the states less than four months later.

The 27th Amendment, ratified in 1992, was first proposed in 1789. It says pay raises that Congress votes for itself can't take effect until after the next election for members of the House.

Related action
The House also got into the July Fourth spirit Tuesday by passing on a voice vote a measure that would bar condominium and homeowner associations from restricting how the flag can be displayed.

Sponsored by Rep. Roscoe Bartlett, R-Md., the resolution would prohibit those groups from preventing residents from displaying an American flag on their own property. The Senate is considering whether to bring up the measure this year.

What are your thoughts? Personally I would never burn an American flag and I think it is reprehensible. But I don't think we need an amendment to protect the flag.

Glad it failed. The flag is a symbol; but that's it. The people are the country and far more important than any symbol. I understand people respecting the flag for what it represents...I respect it as well. However, the flag should not be put on a pedestal. People that do are taking it too far, IMO....I would even liken it to "idol worship" as mentioned in the Old Testament in the Bible. The flag is a symbol of Freedom, America, etc; but not beyond reproach. I have never burned a flag, nor had a desire to; but I feel that those who do are expressing their distress over the current situation of the country; and as a citizen, that is their right.

Rights of the people are far more important than the value of an inanimate object, regardless of what it represents.

neils7147933
06-29-2006, 06:54 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/5126152.stm

Fun-Da-Mental frontman Aki Nawaz could face prosecution under glorification of terrorism laws for the content of All Is War (The Benefits of G-Had).
"If it means taking the rap and promoting the album from Belmarsh prison, I'll do it," he said.

The release has been delayed after record bosses threatened to resign.

'Repulsive'

"If I believe what I've done to be true, then I'll stick by my work 100%," Nawaz said.

"What I have to say isn't new - other people have said far more contentious stuff than me," added the musician, who has been with the band since 1991.

One of the songs, called Cookbook DIY, contains the lyrics: "I'm strapped-up 'cross my chest, bomb belt attached, deeply satisfied with the pain I hatched, electrodes connected to a gas cooker lighter."

But Nawaz denied the music condoned terrorism against civilians.

"As far as terrorism and the killing of innocent people goes, I find it repulsive," he said.

"I know how the suicide bombers feel, but if they're going to do anything, it's got to be against military targets," added Nawaz, from Bradford.

Another track, Che Bin, explores a comparison between Osama Bin Laden and Argentine-born revolutionary Che Guevara, while other songs mention conflicts in Afghanistan and the Middle East.

Prosecution

The BBC's legal affairs analyst Jon Silverman said the album could result in a prosecution under glorification of terrorism laws, passed earlier this year, but may require the consent of the Attorney General.

The album was due for release on 17 July but is now expected to come out on 31 July.

Martin Mills and Andrew Heath, two "silent" directors of Fun-Da-Mental's label Nation Records, have threatened to quit their posts if the album comes out.

The directors' company, Beggar's Banquet records, declined to comment.

Super_Lightweight
06-29-2006, 09:02 PM
Glad it failed. The flag is a symbol; but that's it. The people are the country and far more important than any symbol. I understand people respecting the flag for what it represents...I respect it as well. However, the flag should not be put on a pedestal. People that do are taking it too far, IMO....I would even liken it to "idol worship" as mentioned in the Old Testament in the Bible. The flag is a symbol of Freedom, America, etc; but not beyond reproach. I have never burned a flag, nor had a desire to; but I feel that those who do are expressing their distress over the current situation of the country; and as a citizen, that is their right.

If that's the way they have to express themselves then they are just attention-grabbing fools. But, foolishness shouldn't be illegal.

So burn on.

SonnyG8R
06-29-2006, 10:04 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/5126152.stm

Fun-Da-Mental frontman Aki Nawaz could face prosecution under glorification of terrorism laws for the content of All Is War (The Benefits of G-Had).
"If it means taking the rap and promoting the album from Belmarsh prison, I'll do it," he said.
The release has been delayed after record bosses threatened to resign.

'Repulsive'

"If I believe what I've done to be true, then I'll stick by my work 100%," Nawaz said.

"What I have to say isn't new - other people have said far more contentious stuff than me," added the musician, who has been with the band since 1991.

One of the songs, called Cookbook DIY, contains the lyrics: "I'm strapped-up 'cross my chest, bomb belt attached, deeply satisfied with the pain I hatched, electrodes connected to a gas cooker lighter."

But Nawaz denied the music condoned terrorism against civilians.

"As far as terrorism and the killing of innocent people goes, I find it repulsive," he said.

"I know how the suicide bombers feel, but if they're going to do anything, it's got to be against military targets," added Nawaz, from Bradford.

Another track, Che Bin, explores a comparison between Osama Bin Laden and Argentine-born revolutionary Che Guevara, while other songs mention conflicts in Afghanistan and the Middle East.

Prosecution

The BBC's legal affairs analyst Jon Silverman said the album could result in a prosecution under glorification of terrorism laws, passed earlier this year, but may require the consent of the Attorney General.

The album was due for release on 17 July but is now expected to come out on 31 July.

Martin Mills and Andrew Heath, two "silent" directors of Fun-Da-Mental's label Nation Records, have threatened to quit their posts if the album comes out.

The directors' company, Beggar's Banquet records, declined to comment.


Riiiight.

The problem is all this pub will only increase record sales. He'll probably have to cange or remove some songs. I remember when record stores pulled Ice-T's album Body Count because of the Cop Killer track.

BrooklynBomber
06-29-2006, 10:55 PM
Justices say Bush went too far at Guantanamo

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13592908/from/RS.1/

What do you think will happen to all the detainees?
Trust me, they are good as dead.
Victims of big politics.
Nobody is gonna let them out during this regime.

SonnyG8R
07-03-2006, 07:21 PM
N. Korea threatens U.S. with 'nuclear war'

SEOUL, South Korea (AP) -- North Korea would respond to a pre-emptive U.S. military attack with an "annihilating strike and a nuclear war," the state-run media said Monday, heightening anti-U.S. rhetoric amid close scrutiny of its missile program.

The Korean Central News Agency, citing an unidentified Rodong Sinmun newspaper "analyst," accused the United States of increasing military pressure on the isolated communist state and basing new spy planes on the Korean Peninsula.

The North Korean threat of retaliation, which is often voiced by its state-controlled media, comes amid U.S. official reports that Pyongyang has shown signs of preparing for a test of a long-range missile. North Korea claims it has the right to such a launch.

On Friday, Pyongyang accused the United States of driving the situation on the Korean Peninsula "to the brink of war," and said it is fully prepared to counter any U.S. aggression.

Monday's report accused Washington of escalating military pressure on the country with war exercises, a massive arms buildup and aerial espionage by basing new spy planes in South Korea.

"This is a grave military provocation and blackmail to the DPRK, being an indication that the U.S. is rapidly pushing ahead in various fields with the extremely dangerous war moves," the dispatch said.

"The army and people of the DPRK are now in full preparedness to answer a pre-emptive attack with a relentless annihilating strike and a nuclear war with a mighty nuclear deterrent," the report said.

DPRK stands for the North's official name, the Democratic People's Republic of Korea.

White House spokesman Tony Snow refused to respond to what he called "a hypothetical situation."

"It is a statement about what may happen if something that hasn't happened happened, if you follow my drift," he said.

North Korea routinely accuses the U.S. of aerial espionage, issuing a tally of such flights at the end of every month. The U.S. military doesn't comment, although it acknowledges monitoring North Korean military activity.

Washington and Japan have said in recent weeks that spy satellite images show North Korea has taken steps to prepare a long-range Taepodong-2 missile for a test-launch.

Estimates for the range of the missile vary widely, but at least one U.S. study said it could be able to reach parts of the United States with a light payload.

Speculation that Pyongyang could fire the missile has waned in recent days since the country's top ally and a major source of its energy supplies, China, reportedly urged North Korea not to go ahead with the test.

Meanwhile, a South Korean government official said Seoul is considering buying U.S. shipborne SM-2 missiles to bolster its missile-defense system.

The move is the latest by South Korea and Japan to strengthen their defenses amid signs of the North Korean missile test. Seoul announced last week the purchase of Patriot interceptor missiles from Germany.

SM-2 missiles, however, are reportedly effective against cruise missiles and at striking aircraft but would not be able to hit a long-range missile.

"I understand that we have requested information" on the missiles for purchase, said Park Sung-soo, an official at the Defense Acquisition Program Administration, without elaborating.

The U.S. Defense Security Cooperation Agency notified Congress of the possible sale last week, according to its Web site. The order would be for 48 SM-2 Block IIIB tactical standard missiles and associated equipment and training.

The agency estimated the cost at $111 million.

neils7147933
07-03-2006, 09:08 PM
http://www.forbes.com/business/energy/feeds/ap/2006/07/03/ap2856413.html

Associated Press
Ex-GI Charged With Rape of Iraqi, Deaths
By TIM WHITMIRE , 07.03.2006, 06:18 PM





A former soldier discharged due to a "personality disorder" was accused in federal court Monday of executing an Iraqi family so he and other troops could rape and murder a young woman they eyed at a traffic checkpoint. All the bodies were found burned in an apparent cover-up.

Steven D. Green, a skinny, 21-year-old former private who was led into court wearing baggy shorts, flip-flops and a Johnny Cash T-shirt, became the first person identified in this latest case of alleged abuses of Iraqi civilians by U.S. troops.

He spoke only to confirm his identity and stared wide-eyed as a federal magistrate ordered him held without bond on murder and rape charges stemming from a March incident near the Iraqi village of Mahmoudiya. Each of the four separate murder charges carries a possible death penalty.

According to an 11-page federal affidavit, Green and three other soldiers from Fort Campbell, Ky.-based 101st's Airborne Division had talked about raping the young woman, who they spotted while working at the checkpoint and who lived nearby. The document said Green and other soldiers drank alcohol, then changed out of their uniforms to avoid detection before going to the woman's house. Green covered his face with a brown T-shirt.

Once there, the affidavit said, Green took three members of the family - an adult male and female, and a girl estimated to be 5 years old - into a bedroom, after which shots were heard from inside.

"Green came to the bedroom door and told everyone, 'I just killed them. All are dead,'" the affidavit said.

The affidavit is based on interviews conducted by the FBI and military investigators with three unidentified soldiers assigned to Green's platoon. One of the soldiers said he witnessed another soldier and Green rape the woman.

"After the rape, (the soldier) witnessed Green shoot the woman in the head two to three times," the affidavit said.

Investigators also interviewed a fifth soldier, who was left behind to mind the radio at the traffic checkpoint. That soldier said Green and three others returned from the woman's house "with blood on their clothes, which they burned. Immediately after this, they each told (the soldier) that this is never to be discussed again."

An official familiar with details of the investigation in Iraq has told The Associated Press that a flammable liquid was used to burn the rape victim's body in an attempted cover-up.

The affidavit noted that prosecutors have photos taken by Army investigators in Iraq of bodies found inside a burned house and a photo of a burned body of "what appears to be a woman with blankets thrown over her upper torso."

The age of the young woman was unclear. FBI documents estimated her age at 25, but a neighbor of the family said the rape victim was 14 and her sister was 10.

The Washington Post reported the rape victim was 15 and that her mother worried her daughter had attracted the attention of U.S. soldiers at a checkpoint. The mother asked a neighbor if the girl could sleep at his house.

The neighbor agreed but the girl and her family was attacked the next day, according to the Post. The neighbor told the Post he was one of the first people to arrive at the house after the attack and found the girl dead in a corner, her hair and a pillow burned and her dress pushed up to her neck.

Green, who was arrested Friday in the town of Marion northwest of Charlotte, is being prosecuted in federal, rather than military court because he is no longer in the Army. According to the affidavit, his 11-month-stint ended "before this incident came to light" when he was given an honorable discharge "due to a personality disorder."

The soldiers accused in the rape and killings are from the same platoon as two soldiers whose mutilated bodies were found June 19, three days after they were abducted by insurgents near Youssifiyah, southwest of Baghdad. Military officials say they believe guilt over the mutilations may have spurred a confession by one of the soldiers during a combat-stress debriefing late last month.

No other soldier has been charged in the case, said Maj. Joseph Breasseale, a U.S. military spokesman in Baghdad. However, military officials have said four Army soldiers have had their weapons taken away and were being confined to their base near Mahmoudiya.

The mayor of Mahmoudiya, Mouayad Fadhil, said Monday that Iraqi authorities had started their own investigation. He said U.S. Army officers were also seeking permission to exhume one of the bodies; the U.S. military declined to comment on the report because the investigation is ongoing.

According to the affidavit, Green was arrested while traveling back to Fort Campbell after attending a funeral for one of the mutilated soldiers in Arlington, Va.

He was quoted in December by the Fort Campbell Courier about a search for insurgents and expressed surprise at the ease of the mission.

"I was surprised by how many people weren't home, but the ones who were there were submissive and let us look through their things," he said.

Court officials said Green will have a preliminary hearing and a detention hearing on July 10 in Charlotte, and will then be brought to Louisville to stand trial.

SonnyG8R
07-07-2006, 07:52 PM
Wow this is some ****ed up ****.

Ladies, be happy you do not live in Cameroon.

'Breast ironing' to stunt girls' growth widespread

1 in 4 girls in Cameroon suffer this abuse to protect against rape

YAOUNDE, Cameroon (Reuters) -- Worried that her daughters' budding breasts would expose them to the risk of sexual harassment and even rape, their mother Philomene Moungang started 'ironing' the girls' bosoms with a heated stone.

"I did it to my two girls when they were eight years old. I would take the grinding stone, heat it in the fire and press it hard on the breasts," Moungang said.

"They cried and said it was painful. But I explained that it was for their own good."

"Breast ironing" -- the use of hard or heated objects or other substances to try to stunt breast growth in girls -- is a traditional practice in West Africa, experts say.

A new survey has revealed it is shockingly widespread in Cameroon, where one in four teenagers are subjected to the traumatic process by relatives, often hoping to lessen their sexual attractiveness.

"Breast ironing is an age-old practice in Cameroon, as well as in many other countries in West and Central Africa, including Chad, Togo, Benin, Guinea-Conakry, just to name a few," said Flavien Ndonko, an anthropologist and local representative of German development agency GTZ, which sponsored the survey.

"If society has been silent about it up to now it is because, like other harmful practices done to women such as female genital mutilation, it was thought to be good for the girl," said Ndonko.

"Even the victims themselves thought it was good for them."

However, the practice has many side-effects, including severe pain and abscesses, infections, breast cancer, and even the complete disappearance of one or both breasts.

The survey of more than 5,000 girls and women aged between 10 and 82 from throughout Cameroon, published last month, estimated that 4 million women in the central African country have suffered the process.

"You ask me why I did it?" said Moungang. "When I was growing up as a little girl my mother did it to me just as all other women in the village did it to their girl children. So I thought it was just good for me to do to my own children."

Common in town
The practice is now more common in urban areas than in villages, because mothers fear their children could be more exposed to sexual abuse in towns and try to suppress outward signs of sexuality, the survey said.

Its findings have prompted a nationwide campaign to educate mothers about its dangers and to try to eradicate it. A similar campaign some years ago helped drastically to reduce rates of female genital mutilation in Cameroon.

"A girl...has to be proud of her breasts because it is natural. It is a gift from God. Allow the breasts to grow naturally. Do not force them to disappear or appear," said a leaflet from the campaign.

Moungang said she stopped ironing her daughters' breasts after one girl developed blisters and abscesses.

"I took her to the hospital and the doctor scolded me and advised never to do it again because it could ruin my daughter," she said.

"When Mariane married and delivered her first baby, it took a long time -- about a month -- for her breasts to start producing milk and the child almost died. I was told it was because I had ironed her breasts. I was frightened."

The younger a girl develops, the more likely she is to have her bosom ironed -- 38 percent of girls developing breasts under the age of 11 had undergone the procedure.

The practice is most common in the Christian and animist South of the country, rather than in the Muslim North and Far North provinces, where only 10 percent of women are affected.

The survey found that in 58 percent of cases breast ironing was carried out by mothers worried that the onset of puberty could provoke sexual harassment, inhibit their daughters' studies or even stunt their growth.

Many mothers were alarmed because an improvement in nutrition and living conditions had caused young girls' breasts to develop earlier than ever.

Destroying breasts
"Massaging the breasts with hot objects is painful, very painful, and can completely destroy the breasts," said Bessem Ebanga, executive secretary of women's rights group RENATA, herself a former victim.

"Some girls could be traumatized throughout their lives and their sexual behavior could be disturbed forever."

Thirteen-year-old Geraldine Mbafor could not hold back her tears as she narrated her ordeal.

"I had just finished doing my homework when my mother summoned me to the kitchen. She boiled water and in the water she put a grinding stone. She then removed the stone holding it with a thick cloth to protect her hands, and placed it my breasts and started ironing them," she stated.

"I felt so much pains that I started crying. After that she bandaged my breasts with a band called breast-band ... She did this to me for two and a half months."

According to 14-year-old Amelia, who would not give her family name, her breasts started developing when she was 9. Her elder sister decided to massage them every evening with a towel soaked in hot water.

"This was very painful, and every evening before I slept, she would put a big elastic belt well fastened round my chest to flatten my breasts."

"Six months later the flesh that held my breasts was already weak. At 10, I already had fallen breasts and each time I undress I'm ashamed and it is a big complex."

Nevertheless, support for and opposition to the tradition remains evenly balanced. According to the survey, 39 percent of women opposed it, while 41 percent expressed support and 26 percent were indifferent.

For Ndonko, the campaign is a battle to respect the physical integrity of young girls -- with broader implications for human rights.

"If nothing was done today, tomorrow the very parents may even resolve to slice off the nose, the mouth or any other part of the girl which they think is making her attractive to men."

Explosivo
07-10-2006, 01:28 PM
I want to say for the record that I am officialy against anything that will stunt the growth of womens breasts! :D

neils7147933
07-10-2006, 11:00 PM
http://news.scotsman.com/international.cfm?id=1002642006

US troops' Iraq rape victim 'was girl of 14'


Scotsman | July 10 2006

FIVE US soldiers were charged in a rape and multiple murder case that has outraged Iraqis, as evidence emerged that the rape victim was only 14, not over 20 as US officials had said.

Days after a former private, Steven Green, was charged as a civilian in a US court with rape and four murders, four serving soldiers were charged with the same offences.

Another soldier was charged on Saturday with dereliction of duty for not reporting the crime in March. All five were charged with conspiring with Green who is accused of killing a couple and their two daughters. Court documents gave the raped daughter's estimated age as 25, though US military officials in Iraq say their documents have her as 20.

Her identity card and death certificate, however, show she was 14. Local officials and relatives had said she was 15 or 16.

Explosivo
07-11-2006, 12:22 PM
http://news.scotsman.com/international.cfm?id=1002642006

US troops' Iraq rape victim 'was girl of 14'


Scotsman | July 10 2006

FIVE US soldiers were charged in a rape and multiple murder case that has outraged Iraqis, as evidence emerged that the rape victim was only 14, not over 20 as US officials had said.

Days after a former private, Steven Green, was charged as a civilian in a US court with rape and four murders, four serving soldiers were charged with the same offences.

Another soldier was charged on Saturday with dereliction of duty for not reporting the crime in March. All five were charged with conspiring with Green who is accused of killing a couple and their two daughters. Court documents gave the raped daughter's estimated age as 25, though US military officials in Iraq say their documents have her as 20.

Her identity card and death certificate, however, show she was 14. Local officials and relatives had said she was 15 or 16.

I dont doubt this could happen in a time of war with a bunch of trained killers running around in a place where sex has got to be hard to come by, but I think we need to wait until all the facts come out before we convict this guy (or guys) in our minds.

neils7147933
07-11-2006, 12:46 PM
I dont doubt this could happen in a time of war with a bunch of trained killers running around in a place where sex has got to be hard to come by, but I think we need to wait until all the facts come out before we convict this guy (or guys) in our minds.
We do this in every war, man...

BBKing
07-11-2006, 01:22 PM
We do this in every war, man...

Well "I" haven't done it, and I'm pretty sure 99% of our military doesn't do it either. there are going to be a few bad apples in any group with millions of people.

On the other hand It's a shame our military can't follow the example of the Terrorists we are fighting. Heavens knows they never commit atraucities or kill innocent people. Neither did the Vietcong, the North Koreans, The Nazis, the Japanese or any other group the USA has gone to war with.

Bad USA, Bad bad!! :spank:

* FeistyWench *
07-11-2006, 09:09 PM
GENDER IDENTITY

5-year-old 'girl' starting school is really a boy

Broward County schools' progressive policy on transgendered children will be tested by the admission to kindergarten this fall of a boy who believes that he's a girl.
BY ROBERTO SANTIAGO
rsantiago@MiamiHerald.com


One little girl entering Broward County kindergarten this fall is actually a boy.

Few will know this genetic truth, because the 5-year-old's parents and school administrators have agreed that it's in his best interest to blend in as a female.

Mental health professionals have diagnosed Pat -- not his real name -- with gender dysphoria, a condition in which a person believes that he or she is the opposite gender. After two years of examination, they have determined that he is not simply effeminate or going through a phase.

'Gender dysphoria can take place during a fetus' development in the womb,'' said noted gender specialist and sexologist Marilyn Volker, Ph.D., of Miami.

While this tyke is likely the youngest transgendered child admitted to a South Florida school, he is not unique. Both the Broward and Miami-Dade County school systems have policies in place to smooth the way for such students and their families.

Equality Florida, which advocates for Florida's gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender community, and PFLAG -- Parents, Families and Friends of Lesbians and Gays -- say the two school districts have the most progressive policies in the state.

Broward and Miami-Dade are among the most exemplary school districts ''when it comes to the rights of transgendered people,'' said Tobias Packer, South Florida Field Organizer for Equality Florida, who himself is transgendered.

Carole Benowitz, Florida state coordinator for PFLAG, agrees. Her adult son is gay.

Benowitz said that two years ago -- at a Broward high school she declined to name -- she was called in after a group of boys beat up another student, whom they believed to be an effeminate boy. In fact, the victim was transgendered -- a biological female who looked, dressed and behaved like a male. Benowitz was brought in to counsel the administrators, the students and the victim.

''People have an understanding of what it means to be gay or lesbian -- but when they hear that a person is genetically one gender but lives as another gender, that threatens a number of people because they don't understand what that means,'' Benowitz said. ``And that misunderstanding can make lives very difficult for transgendered children and their parents.''

''In addition to behaving like the opposite sex, a person with gender dysphoria naturally relates to the opposite sex,'' Volker said. ``They also have a persistent and recurring discomfort with their own external body parts and genitalia because it does not match their internal gender identity. Simply said, they were born into the wrong body.''

FEMININE LOOK

The soon-to-be kindergartner looks quite feminine, cartwheeling around the yard and playing with dolls. Pat says he hates his penis, and he refuses to wear boys' clothing.

He and his three older siblings -- two girls and a boy -- live in a middle-class Broward County neighborhood with their father, an attorney, and their mother, who has a master's degree in counseling.

Pat's parents had never heard of gender dysphoria until they took their child for treatment. He was insisting that he was a girl, and often tried to hide his penis between his legs.

After long consultation with a team of pediatric endocrinologists and therapists, then with school officials, the parents decided that it was in Pat's best interest to live as a girl.

''The school officials have agreed to continue working with the family and medical professionals to help create an environment that will maximize the child's ability to learn and grow within the school system,'' said family attorney Karen Doering, who specializes in defending the rights of people who are transgendered, gay, bisexual or lesbian.

Gender dysphoria -- called gender identity disorder by the American Psychiatric Association -- is commonly misunderstood today, much as homosexuality was 50 years ago.

Although the association has not taken a formal position, the scientific community is increasingly determining that it could be a genetic condition, not a mental disorder.

At the school, teachers and the principal are prepared. The child will use unisex bathroom facilities, will be addressed by a unisex name -- not Pat -- and has been asked to dress in gender-neutral clothing, such as shorts or pants and a shirt.

School officials said this is standard practice in Broward and Miami-Dade for helping transgendered children fit in.

''The policies the districts have in place are progressive,'' Benowitz said. ``They both aim to ensure that transgendered students are treated like any other students, and take direct action when misunderstanding or violence take place.''

Leah Kelly, executive director of student support services and exceptional student education for the Broward school system, could not comment on any specific case.

``But I will say the Broward school system has admitted transgendered children before, and that it is a private matter between the parents, school administrators and the child.''

Discretion plays a great role in protecting transgendered children and the privacy of their parents, Kelly said. The objective is for them to blend in, she said.

Tony Valido, an educational specialist in the Miami-Dade schools Division of Student Services, said that Miami-Dade's approach to helping transgendered children goes one step further -- simply because there is a greater need.

* FeistyWench *
07-11-2006, 09:10 PM
MIAMI-DADE DIVERSITY

''Unlike Broward, Miami-Dade has a more diverse population of students,'' Valido said. That's especially true in high school, where there are a number of openly transgendered teens, mostly boys who believe they are girls.

Each Miami-Dade high school has a Sexual Minority Network where students who are gay, lesbian, bisexual or transgendered can turn to an in-house counselor or teacher for help.

That means advice on trying to fit in and understand who they are, said Valido, who added that there have been no reported incidents of violence or bullying.

The network has been in place for at least 15 years. Valido said that in the last few years, sexual-minority students have become more vocal.

''Sexual-minority students are coming out younger and younger, as early as 10,'' said Valido, who hopes the Sexual Minority Network will be expanded to middle schools next year.

It's not clear how many transgendered children are in the system. The U.S. Department of Education does not maintain statistics on the number of transgendered children in the school system, nor are schools asked to report it.

Some parents of transgendered children worry that societal revulsion, fear and anger could prompt someone to call a social-service agency, such as the Florida Department of Children & Families. A complaint that a little boy is being sent to school in girl's clothing could lead to accusations of abuse and neglect, they fear.

Those fears are not unrealistic, said Abbie Cuellar, an attorney specializing in child welfare issues.

''The parents must make sure that documentation on behalf of their child is ready and continuously updated,'' Cuellar said. ``Gender dysphoria is greatly misunderstood, and all it takes is one well-meaning but ignorant person to start making calls.''

But Gary Gershowitz, a spokesman for the Department of Children & Families in Tallahassee, said that parents of transgender children in Florida have nothing to fear.

''Documented gender dysphoria does not rise to the level of abuse or neglect,'' Gershowitz said. ``Anyone can call and file abuse for any reason. But in a worst-case scenario, a child protection investigator would look for signs of physical abuse or squalor, because it is the safety of the child that is of concern. If none is found -- and especially if there is documentation of gender dysphoria -- the case would be closed.''

The Noose
07-12-2006, 11:31 AM
I dont doubt this could happen in a time of war with a bunch of trained killers running around in a place where sex has got to be hard to come by, but I think we need to wait until all the facts come out before we convict this guy (or guys) in our minds.

I dont think rape has anything to do with sex being hard to come by.
These people are ****ed up.

K-DOGG
07-12-2006, 11:38 AM
War is hard on any soldier, whether he's from the United States or not. That's why so many live the rest of their lives suffering from PDST. Any war, you pick one, attrocities such as this have taken place because if you give a man a gun and put him in a situation where he knows his life could end prematurely at any point in time, stress is going to mount; and every one has their breaking point. We all have the capability to do evil within us; but most of us don't face death everyday, which is the highest form of stress over the long haul.

Now, don't misinterpret me. I'm not condoning these men's actions or even asking for liniancy for them. But; I am suggesting that maybe our Warbirds should take this into consideration for future military campaigns. People of all beliefs and backgrounds can snap if they are pressured enough. Good men have the capability to be monsters with their only defense being the morals they were brough up with...which didn't deal with war in most cases.

Rotation or on-site therapy needs to be looked into.


My thoughts are with the family of the girl, if there are any left alive......as well as with the families of the men who did this to her.....and even the men.

War....is.....Hell.

neils7147933
07-12-2006, 02:07 PM
Well "I" haven't done it, and I'm pretty sure 99% of our military doesn't do it either. there are going to be a few bad apples in any group with millions of people.

On the other hand It's a shame our military can't follow the example of the Terrorists we are fighting. Heavens knows they never commit atraucities or kill innocent people. Neither did the Vietcong, the North Koreans, The Nazis, the Japanese or any other group the USA has gone to war with.

Bad USA, Bad bad!! :spank:

War is hard on any soldier, whether he's from the United States or not. That's why so many live the rest of their lives suffering from PDST. Any war, you pick one, attrocities such as this have taken place because if you give a man a gun and put him in a situation where he knows his life could end prematurely at any point in time, stress is going to mount; and every one has their breaking point. We all have the capability to do evil within us; but most of us don't face death everyday, which is the highest form of stress over the long haul.

Now, don't misinterpret me. I'm not condoning these men's actions or even asking for liniancy for them. But; I am suggesting that maybe our Warbirds should take this into consideration for future military campaigns. People of all beliefs and backgrounds can snap if they are pressured enough. Good men have the capability to be monsters with their only defense being the morals they were brough up with...which didn't deal with war in most cases.

Rotation or on-site therapy needs to be looked into.


My thoughts are with the family of the girl, if there are any left alive......as well as with the families of the men who did this to her.....and even the men.

War....is.....Hell.
I don't buy that everyone who commits criminal offenses while in a war does so because of stress.

I believe that the opportunity for power can attract pieces of **** to become priests, cops, soldiers, teachers, etc. sometimes. Liars, thiefs, killers, and rapists join our military as they join any other profession. I'll choose not to go into more detail, but I feel that the opportunity to carry a weapon and to be in the position where other soldiers/civilians are viewed as less than people is appealing to certain personality types.

And these kids some soldiers are raping, and these other innocent folks some of our "finest" are taking advantage of (and they are many, many more) are not our enemies. The whole "they hate our freedom" bull**** is nauseating. The idea that because they were born in Iraq that they are disposable is embarassing. I've heard some of this mindset first hand from current "heroes" who are "serving our country"

**** any soldier that the description is accurate...

phallus
07-13-2006, 06:13 PM
I don't buy that everyone who commits criminal offenses while in a war does so because of stress.

I believe that the opportunity for power can attract pieces of **** to become priests, cops, soldiers, teachers, etc. sometimes. Liars, thiefs, killers, and rapists join our military as they join any other profession. I'll choose not to go into more detail, but I feel that the opportunity to carry a weapon and to be in the position where other soldiers/civilians are viewed as less than people is appealing to certain personality types.

And these kids some soldiers are raping, and these other innocent folks some of our "finest" are taking advantage of (and they are many, many more) are not our enemies. The whole "they hate our freedom" bull**** is nauseating. The idea that because they were born in Iraq that they are disposable is embarassing. I've heard some of this mindset first hand from current "heroes" who are "serving our country"

**** any soldier that the description is accurate...


where there is a body, the vultures will gather. there's lots of people in the world today who think certain members of society are disposable - i have talked to many such people who have these views

Mick Hucknall
07-15-2006, 08:42 PM
I don't like it how you ****ers keep taking our criminals

* FeistyWench *
07-16-2006, 10:43 AM
GENDER IDENTITY DISORDER

5-year-old 'girl' starting school is really a boy

Broward County schools' progressive policy on transgendered children will be tested by the admission to kindergarten this fall of a boy who believes that he's a girl.
BY ROBERTO SANTIAGO
rsantiago@MiamiHerald.com


One little girl entering Broward County kindergarten this fall is actually a boy.

Few will know this genetic truth, because the 5-year-old's parents and school administrators have agreed that it's in his best interest to blend in as a female.

Mental health professionals have diagnosed Pat -- not his real name -- with gender dysphoria, a condition in which a person believes that he or she is the opposite gender. After two years of examination, they have determined that he is not simply effeminate or going through a phase.

'Gender dysphoria can take place during a fetus' development in the womb,'' said noted gender specialist and sexologist Marilyn Volker, Ph.D., of Miami.

While this tyke is likely the youngest transgendered child admitted to a South Florida school, he is not unique. Both the Broward and Miami-Dade County school systems have policies in place to smooth the way for such students and their families.

Equality Florida, which advocates for Florida's gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender community, and PFLAG -- Parents, Families and Friends of Lesbians and Gays -- say the two school districts have the most progressive policies in the state.

Broward and Miami-Dade are among the most exemplary school districts ''when it comes to the rights of transgendered people,'' said Tobias Packer, South Florida Field Organizer for Equality Florida, who himself is transgendered.

Carole Benowitz, Florida state coordinator for PFLAG, agrees. Her adult son is gay.

Benowitz said that two years ago -- at a Broward high school she declined to name -- she was called in after a group of boys beat up another student, whom they believed to be an effeminate boy. In fact, the victim was transgendered -- a biological female who looked, dressed and behaved like a male. Benowitz was brought in to counsel the administrators, the students and the victim.

''People have an understanding of what it means to be gay or lesbian -- but when they hear that a person is genetically one gender but lives as another gender, that threatens a number of people because they don't understand what that means,'' Benowitz said. ``And that misunderstanding can make lives very difficult for transgendered children and their parents.''

''In addition to behaving like the opposite sex, a person with gender dysphoria naturally relates to the opposite sex,'' Volker said. ``They also have a persistent and recurring discomfort with their own external body parts and genitalia because it does not match their internal gender identity. Simply said, they were born into the wrong body.''

FEMININE LOOK

The soon-to-be kindergartner looks quite feminine, cartwheeling around the yard and playing with dolls. Pat says he hates his penis, and he refuses to wear boys' clothing.

He and his three older siblings -- two girls and a boy -- live in a middle-class Broward County neighborhood with their father, an attorney, and their mother, who has a master's degree in counseling.

Pat's parents had never heard of gender dysphoria until they took their child for treatment. He was insisting that he was a girl, and often tried to hide his penis between his legs.

After long consultation with a team of pediatric endocrinologists and therapists, then with school officials, the parents decided that it was in Pat's best interest to live as a girl.

''The school officials have agreed to continue working with the family and medical professionals to help create an environment that will maximize the child's ability to learn and grow within the school system,'' said family attorney Karen Doering, who specializes in defending the rights of people who are transgendered, gay, bisexual or lesbian.

Gender dysphoria -- called gender identity disorder by the American Psychiatric Association -- is commonly misunderstood today, much as homosexuality was 50 years ago.

Although the association has not taken a formal position, the scientific community is increasingly determining that it could be a genetic condition, not a mental disorder.

At the school, teachers and the principal are prepared. The child will use unisex bathroom facilities, will be addressed by a unisex name -- not Pat -- and has been asked to dress in gender-neutral clothing, such as shorts or pants and a shirt.

School officials said this is standard practice in Broward and Miami-Dade for helping transgendered children fit in.

''The policies the districts have in place are progressive,'' Benowitz said. ``They both aim to ensure that transgendered students are treated like any other students, and take direct action when misunderstanding or violence take place.''

Leah Kelly, executive director of student support services and exceptional student education for the Broward school system, could not comment on any specific case.

``But I will say the Broward school system has admitted transgendered children before, and that it is a private matter between the parents, school administrators and the child.''

Discretion plays a great role in protecting transgendered children and the privacy of their parents, Kelly said. The objective is for them to blend in, she said.

Tony Valido, an educational specialist in the Miami-Dade schools Division of Student Services, said that Miami-Dade's approach to helping transgendered children goes one step further -- simply because there is a greater need.
no one has thoughts on this?

neils7147933
07-16-2006, 02:43 PM
no one has thoughts on this?
I think it's very possible that a transgendered individual could know so at that age and since the parents and doctors are in agreeance, I don't see a problem with this at all. If the family is going to live in the area for a number of years, this is protecting the girl from cruel bullying. I just hope the 5-year old understands what all is entailed in the 'deception'; sending the child to public school is still dangerous, unfortunately...

Dirt E Gomez
07-17-2006, 06:11 AM
A strange thing happens with children who becomes transgendered essentially because their parents made a bad choice. THere's like a 1 in 50 chance a child is born neither fully boy or fully girl. THe parents then decide which they believe the child will essentially grow into. That often times lead to the very square-jawed broad shouldered women or the large breasted fat thighs male.

Not sure why this popped into my head exactly, but I remember I learned entirely too much about it a year or so ago.

neils7147933
07-17-2006, 08:38 AM
A strange thing happens with children who becomes transgendered essentially because their parents made a bad choice. THere's like a 1 in 50 chance a child is born neither fully boy or fully girl. THe parents then decide which they believe the child will essentially grow into. That often times lead to the very square-jawed broad shouldered women or the large breasted fat thighs male.

Not sure why this popped into my head exactly, but I remember I learned entirely too much about it a year or so ago.
The article doesn't say that there are any physical abnormalities. I took it to mean that it's strictly a gender identity issue and not anything else. Anyone else see something different?

BBKing
07-17-2006, 12:18 PM
no one has thoughts on this?

Sounds like a boy who likes to play with dolls to me. He is definitely not a girl and I think encouraging him to fool himself into believing that he is a girl compounds the problem.

This is just asking for a traumatic end for the child. What happens the first time he is invited to a all girls sleep over or pool party and it is discovered thet she is really a he. How is the child going to feel when all "her" little friends start growing boobs and he starts growing a beard? How about the first time he is asked out on a date by a boy and he pops a boner while making out. He will get his ass beat and be ostracized, bullied and teased by all the other students.

Better to raise the child as what it is; a boy who likes to act like a girl. The child is only 5 for heavens sakes. He may find that he is attracted to girls around 3rd or 4th grade and then what? I just think it is too early to make a life altering decision like this.

* FeistyWench *
07-17-2006, 06:30 PM
The article doesn't say that there are any physical abnormalities. I took it to mean that it's strictly a gender identity issue and not anything else. Anyone else see something different?
no it is strictly a gender identity issue. the child is a boy who behaves like a girl. a "tom-girl" so to speak. if they continue with what they are doing, i am sure that he will receive hormone therapy in adolescence and as soon as it is legally allowed they will have the child have a "gender change" operation.

* FeistyWench *
07-17-2006, 06:38 PM
A strange thing happens with children who becomes transgendered essentially because their parents made a bad choice. THere's like a 1 in 50 chance a child is born neither fully boy or fully girl. THe parents then decide which they believe the child will essentially grow into. That often times lead to the very square-jawed broad shouldered women or the large breasted fat thighs male.

Not sure why this popped into my head exactly, but I remember I learned entirely too much about it a year or so ago.
hermaphrodites is what you are thinking of i believe. one having both male and female sexual characteristics and organs. problem is that parents have to decide then and there whether they want the child to be male or female. there have been instances in which the child is assigned male, but struggles with that as he grows because he feels like a female. i do think that these children, although they have both sexual organs, are biologically meant to be one or the other and parents should be able to wait it out a couple of years and see what it appears to be.

i remember reading a case (not in america) where the person was assigned male, but "his" penis was not functional. he had a vagina. he was put in a male prison for something like repeated check bouncing or something and was repeatedly raped in the vagina in jail. :eek:

SonnyG8R
07-17-2006, 07:19 PM
hermaphrodites is what you are thinking of i believe. one having both male and female sexual characteristics and organs. problem is that parents have to decide then and there whether they want the child to be male or female. there have been instances in which the child is assigned male, but struggles with that as he grows because he feels like a female. i do think that these children, although they have both sexual organs, are biologically meant to be one or the other and parents should be able to wait it out a couple of years and see what it appears to be.

i remember reading a case (not in america) where the person was assigned male, but "his" penis was not functional. he had a vagina. he was put in a male prison for something like repeated check bouncing or something and was repeatedly raped in the vagina in jail. :eek:

lol...

Sorry, that's not funny. I admit I don't know a lot about assigning hermaphrodites one gender or the other. The thing is, I thought that once the choice was made the other sex organ was sugically altered/removed.

* FeistyWench *
07-17-2006, 07:23 PM
lol...

Sorry, that's not funny. I admit I don't know a lot about assigning hermaphrodites one gender or the other. The thing is, I thought that once the choice was made the other sex organ was sugically altered/removed.
not always :eek:

* FeistyWench *
07-17-2006, 07:28 PM
I think it's very possible that a transgendered individual could know so at that age and since the parents and doctors are in agreeance, I don't see a problem with this at all. If the family is going to live in the area for a number of years, this is protecting the girl from cruel bullying. I just hope the 5-year old understands what all is entailed in the 'deception'; sending the child to public school is still dangerous, unfortunately...
Article says: "gender dysphoria, a condition in which a person believes that he or she is the opposite gender. After two years of examination, they have determined that he is not simply effeminate or going through a phase."

IF they "watched or examined" the child for 2 years before making this decision, that means they started this when the child was 3. i just think that is way too young to say a child has a clinical gender identity issue. he likes to act/dress like a girl, but he is still a very young child. i just think they could be doing more harm than good by taking such a drastic action.

Crumble
07-17-2006, 07:35 PM
i'm learning so much

neils7147933
07-17-2006, 07:39 PM
Article says: "gender dysphoria, a condition in which a person believes that he or she is the opposite gender. After two years of examination, they have determined that he is not simply effeminate or going through a phase."

IF they "watched or examined" the child for 2 years before making this decision, that means they started this when the child was 3. i just think that is way too young to say a child has a clinical gender identity issue. he likes to act/dress like a girl, but he is still a very young child. i just think they could be doing more harm than good by taking such a drastic action.
The other way to look at this is that it's a parental rights issue. This isn't the school or the state or a doctor saying that the child has to be raised this way...

Dirt E Gomez
07-17-2006, 07:41 PM
The article doesn't say that there are any physical abnormalities. I took it to mean that it's strictly a gender identity issue and not anything else. Anyone else see something different?

I was referign to a different thing actually. Your article just reminded me of it but it wasn't so much that the article actually spoke about the topic I adressed. I should've been a lil' more specific.

Also, Fiesty, I'm not thinking of Hermaphrodites. When they're born it's very easy to see what gender they actually are by examining them a little bit.

* FeistyWench *
07-17-2006, 08:11 PM
The other way to look at this is that it's a parental rights issue. This isn't the school or the state or a doctor saying that the child has to be raised this way...
i get what you are saying with the parental rights issue. i also know that there are a lot of physicians and psychologists who do not operate within the "best practices" spectrum. looking for some publicity and notoriety. my fear is that the child is so young maybe he is siply a "tom girl" but very well could grow out of it. what if he didn't? there are bound to be parents at the school who do not approve and will have children that don;t approve and it could be really tough for that kid. kids can be brutal to other kids.

* FeistyWench *
07-17-2006, 08:15 PM
I was referign to a different thing actually. Your article just reminded me of it but it wasn't so much that the article actually spoke about the topic I adressed. I should've been a lil' more specific.

Also, Fiesty, I'm not thinking of Hermaphrodites. When they're born it's very easy to see what gender they actually are by examining them a little bit.
i've never known a hermaphrodite, but i have seen documentaries and have read about them. most of the people were middle aged.
any way, my thinking is despite what gender they go with or "prove to be", they seem to have more gender identity issues than the general population.

ok...back to gender identity issues in early childhood...

BrooklynBomber
07-17-2006, 09:11 PM
i've never known a hermaphrodite, but i have seen documentaries and have read about them. most of the people were middle aged.
any way, my thinking is despite what gender they go with or "prove to be", they seem to have more gender identity issues than the general population.

ok...back to gender identity issues in early childhood...
I know a tranny. She is actually a bertender in one of the clubs and I always tip her greatly.
One of my friends(straight guy) actually had sex with one of them, but he did not believe me it wasa tranny until we had a solid proof. He also said that her ***** felt like almost your classic *****.

SonnyG8R
07-17-2006, 09:15 PM
I know a tranny. She is actually a bertender in one of the clubs and I always tip her greatly.
One of my friends(straight guy) actually had sex with one of them, but he did not believe me it wasa tranny until we had a solid proof. He also said that her ***** felt like almost your classic *****.


A tranny is a dude who dresses like a chick. They don't have *******. :D

* FeistyWench *
07-17-2006, 09:17 PM
I know a tranny. She is actually a bertender in one of the clubs and I always tip her greatly.
One of my friends(straight guy) actually had sex with one of them, but he did not believe me it wasa tranny until we had a solid proof. He also said that her ***** felt like almost your classic *****.
by tranny. i am sure that you mean transsexual, right? - a person who has undergone a sex change operation

i always think of a tranny as a transvestite - someone (usually a male) who adopts the dress or manner or sexual role of the opposite sex

BrooklynBomber
07-17-2006, 09:21 PM
A tranny is a dude who dresses like a chick. They don't have *******. :D
No, you mean transvestite, I mean Transsexual, A dude with fake boobs, fake ass and fake *****.

SonnyG8R
07-17-2006, 09:36 PM
No, you mean transvestite, I mean Transsexual, A dude with fake boobs, fake ass and fake *****.


Ok, misinterpretation then.

I've never once felt fake boobs.

I kind of feel like I'm missing out on something. :p

BrooklynBomber
07-17-2006, 09:45 PM
Ok, misinterpretation then.

I've never once felt fake boobs.

I kind of feel like I'm missing out on something. :p
Trust me real ones feel so much better, unless ofcourse, we are not talking about these old ones, that feel like empty socks.
One of my exes older sister got herself implants.

* FeistyWench *
07-17-2006, 10:39 PM
implants are a bit different than completely not real.
i imagine a female with implants feels more real since the implants just enlarge what is already there. whereas a transsexual, i imagine, has completely fake boobs.

my friend in college had a boob job and insisted that i touch them. i gave one a poke with my finger, refusing to squeeze it. it just felt firm.

BrooklynBomber
07-17-2006, 10:46 PM
implants are a bit different than completely not real.
i imagine a female with implants feels more real since the implants just enlarge what is already there. whereas a transsexual, i imagine, has completely fake boobs.

my friend in college had a boob job and insisted that i touch them. i gave one a poke with my finger, refusing to squeeze it. it just felt firm.
Well, maybe its psychological, cause I knew that wasa boob job on her, but still that girls fake boobs did not feel like, you know, real, ripe, young boobs.
There was something different, that freaked me out deep inside me.
That is why I dont really like club chicks, almost all of'em got boobjob.

Ta Khent
07-18-2006, 12:11 AM
implants are a bit different than completely not real.
i imagine a female with implants feels more real since the implants just enlarge what is already there. whereas a transsexual, i imagine, has completely fake boobs.

my friend in college had a boob job and insisted that i touch them. i gave one a poke with my finger, refusing to squeeze it. it just felt firm.

Contrary to your belief, a tranny's boobs are just as real as a woman's boobs.

SonnyG8R
07-18-2006, 12:18 AM
Contrary to your belief, a tranny's boobs are just as real as a woman's boobs.

No they aren't. A women's rack is flesh and blood. A tranny's is saline or silicone.

Ta Khent
07-18-2006, 12:47 PM
No they aren't. A women's rack is flesh and blood. A tranny's is saline or silicone.

Not if you're injected with female hormones. It's no different than woman taking male hormones and growing facial hair.

K-DOGG
07-18-2006, 01:40 PM
http://www.forbes.com/business/energy/feeds/ap/2006/07/03/ap2856413.html

Associated Press
Ex-GI Charged With Rape of Iraqi, Deaths
By TIM WHITMIRE , 07.03.2006, 06:18 PM





A former soldier discharged due to a "personality disorder" was accused in federal court Monday of executing an Iraqi family so he and other troops could rape and murder a young woman they eyed at a traffic checkpoint. All the bodies were found burned in an apparent cover-up.

Steven D. Green, a skinny, 21-year-old former private who was led into court wearing baggy shorts, flip-flops and a Johnny Cash T-shirt, became the first person identified in this latest case of alleged abuses of Iraqi civilians by U.S. troops.

He spoke only to confirm his identity and stared wide-eyed as a federal magistrate ordered him held without bond on murder and rape charges stemming from a March incident near the Iraqi village of Mahmoudiya. Each of the four separate murder charges carries a possible death penalty.

According to an 11-page federal affidavit, Green and three other soldiers from Fort Campbell, Ky.-based 101st's Airborne Division had talked about raping the young woman, who they spotted while working at the checkpoint and who lived nearby. The document said Green and other soldiers drank alcohol, then changed out of their uniforms to avoid detection before going to the woman's house. Green covered his face with a brown T-shirt.

Once there, the affidavit said, Green took three members of the family - an adult male and female, and a girl estimated to be 5 years old - into a bedroom, after which shots were heard from inside.

"Green came to the bedroom door and told everyone, 'I just killed them. All are dead,'" the affidavit said.

The affidavit is based on interviews conducted by the FBI and military investigators with three unidentified soldiers assigned to Green's platoon. One of the soldiers said he witnessed another soldier and Green rape the woman.

"After the rape, (the soldier) witnessed Green shoot the woman in the head two to three times," the affidavit said.

Investigators also interviewed a fifth soldier, who was left behind to mind the radio at the traffic checkpoint. That soldier said Green and three others returned from the woman's house "with blood on their clothes, which they burned. Immediately after this, they each told (the soldier) that this is never to be discussed again."

An official familiar with details of the investigation in Iraq has told The Associated Press that a flammable liquid was used to burn the rape victim's body in an attempted cover-up.

The affidavit noted that prosecutors have photos taken by Army investigators in Iraq of bodies found inside a burned house and a photo of a burned body of "what appears to be a woman with blankets thrown over her upper torso."

The age of the young woman was unclear. FBI documents estimated her age at 25, but a neighbor of the family said the rape victim was 14 and her sister was 10.

The Washington Post reported the rape victim was 15 and that her mother worried her daughter had attracted the attention of U.S. soldiers at a checkpoint. The mother asked a neighbor if the girl could sleep at his house.

The neighbor agreed but the girl and her family was attacked the next day, according to the Post. The neighbor told the Post he was one of the first people to arrive at the house after the attack and found the girl dead in a corner, her hair and a pillow burned and her dress pushed up to her neck.

Green, who was arrested Friday in the town of Marion northwest of Charlotte, is being prosecuted in federal, rather than military court because he is no longer in the Army. According to the affidavit, his 11-month-stint ended "before this incident came to light" when he was given an honorable discharge "due to a personality disorder."

The soldiers accused in the rape and killings are from the same platoon as two soldiers whose mutilated bodies were found June 19, three days after they were abducted by insurgents near Youssifiyah, southwest of Baghdad. Military officials say they believe guilt over the mutilations may have spurred a confession by one of the soldiers during a combat-stress debriefing late last month.

No other soldier has been charged in the case, said Maj. Joseph Breasseale, a U.S. military spokesman in Baghdad. However, military officials have said four Army soldiers have had their weapons taken away and were being confined to their base near Mahmoudiya.

The mayor of Mahmoudiya, Mouayad Fadhil, said Monday that Iraqi authorities had started their own investigation. He said U.S. Army officers were also seeking permission to exhume one of the bodies; the U.S. military declined to comment on the report because the investigation is ongoing.

According to the affidavit, Green was arrested while traveling back to Fort Campbell after attending a funeral for one of the mutilated soldiers in Arlington, Va.

He was quoted in December by the Fort Campbell Courier about a search for insurgents and expressed surprise at the ease of the mission.

"I was surprised by how many people weren't home, but the ones who were there were submissive and let us look through their things," he said.

Court officials said Green will have a preliminary hearing and a detention hearing on July 10 in Charlotte, and will then be brought to Louisville to stand trial.

American soldiers or not....they should be turned over to Iraqi officials to be dealt with the way they deserve to be dealt with.

K-DOGG
07-18-2006, 01:46 PM
no one has thoughts on this?

I'm truthfully too ignorant of this phenomenon to make an intelligent comment. As I read it, I found myself with my mouth wide open for I have absolutely nothing to say. I feel for the kid...that's pretty much it.


....BUT. ;) If he's born as a boy and thinks he's a girl in a boy's body, then that makes him a "transexual", if I'm not mistaken. Geez. My gut tells me therapy...lots of it; but of course, this is one of those cases for a sex chamge operation, which I absolutely cannot relate to. What did these people do before we had to technology to wack off a wiener and insert a vagina of sorts? Live miserably, I know. Well, I don't want anyone to live miserably; but.....damn. This is just too screwed up for words.

* FeistyWench *
07-18-2006, 06:25 PM
Not if you're injected with female hormones. It's no different than woman taking male hormones and growing facial hair.
but i would think that they would only grow so big with hormones (like barely a size A). i didn't do research, but if they do the "Sex change" surgery, i would think they would probably have a boob job too - to make them a tad bigger.

again, i am not stating a fact or stating this as my belief, but simply as a guess.

* FeistyWench *
07-18-2006, 06:33 PM
I'm truthfully too ignorant of this phenomenon to make an intelligent comment. As I read it, I found myself with my mouth wide open for I have absolutely nothing to say. I feel for the kid...that's pretty much it.


....BUT. ;) If he's born as a boy and thinks he's a girl in a boy's body, then that makes him a "transexual", if I'm not mistaken. Geez. My gut tells me therapy...lots of it; but of course, this is one of those cases for a sex chamge operation, which I absolutely cannot relate to. What did these people do before we had to technology to wack off a wiener and insert a vagina of sorts? Live miserably, I know. Well, I don't want anyone to live miserably; but.....damn. This is just too screwed up for words.
he's actual a boy with a gender identity disorder. you are not a transsexual until you have the "sex change" surgery. and i seriously HOPE that those parents don't consider that for the child until he reaches adolescence (at the soonest).

though if "he" truly believes he is a girl and everyone treats him like a girl, but he notices the physical differences between him and other girls, he will feel like a freak. he is only 5 in kindergarten, wait until he is in 3rd or 4th grade. i personally think they are seriously jumping the gun. but it's their choice....

K-DOGG
07-18-2006, 06:52 PM
he's actual a boy with a gender identity disorder. you are not a transsexual until you have the "sex change" surgery. and i seriously HOPE that those parents don't consider that for the child until he reaches adolescence (at the soonest).

though if "he" truly believes he is a girl and everyone treats him like a girl, but he notices the physical differences between him and other girls, he will feel like a freak. he is only 5 in kindergarten, wait until he is in 3rd or 4th grade. i personally think they are seriously jumping the gun. but it's their choice....

Fiesty, honestly, part of me wants to just dress the kid as a boy and make him face physical facts; he IS a boy. He's going to run into his share of problems, no doubt; but what kid doesn't. Part of me says just don't cater to him...send him out there to face what he will face anyway and listen when he talks about it, sypathize with him, and love him. That's what I'd probably do, if I were the parent; but I never claimed to be prized "dad" material anyway.

Ta Khent
07-18-2006, 07:35 PM
but i would think that they would only grow so big with hormones (like barely a size A). i didn't do research, but if they do the "Sex change" surgery, i would think they would probably have a boob job too - to make them a tad bigger.

again, i am not stating a fact or stating this as my belief, but simply as a guess.


Their are documented cases where tranny's boobs have grown to size DD.

THE REAL NINJA
09-25-2006, 03:30 AM
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g178/darrenshyrockford/toon.jpg

MANGLER
04-02-2010, 03:00 AM
**** this new health insurance ****. :damnit1:

I cut mine off cuz I never get sick. Waste of $.

The people who ain't got it don't got it cuz they either don't got $ for it or just got sick of payin for nothin.

Hi-Dro
04-02-2010, 12:36 PM
cool thread i wanted to make one like this