View Full Version : Ali vs. Frazier: the Fight of the Century


Brassangel
06-14-2006, 11:57 PM
Maybe I'm nuts, but it's come up a lot lately (and in the past) and it bothers me. I have Ali winning at least 8-9 rounds in this fight, with the big rounds (11 and 15) of course going to Frazier. While Frazier showed incredible heart, stamina, and had Ali out on his feet in the 11th, I believe that Ali won on points and on rounds. Since the fight was scored by rounds, I think that Frazier may have been gifted by a change of heart from the judges as the fight progressed. Not that Frazier didn't fight a spectacular fight, I just think that Ali was taken a bit.

Your thoughts....

Dempsey 1919
06-15-2006, 12:03 AM
Maybe I'm nuts, but it's come up a lot lately (and in the past) and it bothers me. I have Ali winning at least 8-9 rounds in this fight, with the big rounds (11 and 15) of course going to Frazier. While Frazier showed incredible heart, stamina, and had Ali out on his feet in the 11th, I believe that Ali won on points and on rounds. Since the fight was scored by rounds, I think that Frazier may have been gifted by a change of heart from the judges as the fight progressed. Not that Frazier didn't fight a spectacular fight, I just think that Ali was taken a bit.

Your thoughts....

Well, I don't know if Ali was actually robbed(I'll have to watch the fight again), but definetely some of the judges were biased towards Frazier. One of the judges had Ali winning only four rounds :eek: . Remember, in 1971 Muhammad Ali was one of the most hated individuals on the planet, a stark contrast to what many think of him today. The last time I scored the fight, I had Ali winning 7 rounds, 8 rounds going to Frazier, so it definetely was close. Without a doubt, it was the greatest fight of all-time.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1750000/images/_1750650_alifrazier300f.jpg

hellfire508
06-15-2006, 02:46 AM
Ali did not win. That is for sure.

However, it was close. The rounds were mostly clear cut thought.

I think I have scored it 9-6, and 8-6-1.

First time I ever scored it I had it 8-7 for Joe, but I think that was a bit biased.

Frazier's 15th round
06-15-2006, 03:19 AM
It was 11-4, Ali got lopsidedly beaten. Brass, quit being an Ali nuthugger.

Ali won rounds 1, 2, 5, and 9. Frazier won the rest. Ali had some good moments in a few rounds, but mostly Frazier dominated him.

Heckler
06-15-2006, 03:39 AM
I had it 9-6 to Frazier from memory... the myth that Ali was completely dominated throughout the fight that some here on this board perpertuate is bull****. Ali put up a good fight and inflicted heavy punishment on Joe.. but Joe being the true warrior he is dug deep, persevered and won the fight.

sleazyfellow
06-15-2006, 03:48 AM
It was 11-4, Ali got lopsidedly beaten.

it was close, frazier was just able to take it to him that nite, his last good fight IMO, outta all three of the fights i think this is the best one, 2nd one was uneventful and the third one was too slow paced for me to like

Southpaw Stinger
06-15-2006, 06:37 AM
It was a close fight but Frazier definatly came out on top.

hellfire508
06-15-2006, 08:03 AM
It was 11-4, Ali got lopsidedly beaten. Brass, quit being an Ali nuthugger.

Ali won rounds 1, 2, 5, and 9. Frazier won the rest. Ali had some good moments in a few rounds, but mostly Frazier dominated him.

I agree that Frazier clearly won, but it wasn't that lobsided.

Dempsey1238
06-15-2006, 08:18 AM
it was close, at first I thought Ali won, but than he just flash me with his movement, I only scored like the 11 and 15 for Frazier and the rest went to Ali. Like I said, I did not think Ali could be beating no matter what.


But now with a NON Bias mind, I scored it 9-6 for Fraizer.

Brassangel
06-15-2006, 12:34 PM
I don't have Ali clearly winning, perhaps 8-6-1 (since I just watched it again). And Frazier's15th, ask anybody on here, I am definitely NOT an Ali nuthugger. I definitely see through what is possibly the biggest myth in sport's history.

Anyway...

Frazier won the end of the fight. I won't take that away from him. He displayed great heart and stamina, and despite the pounding he took, he had some left in the tank for the late rounds. Clearly the rounds with the largest margin of victory go to Frazier, as he basically knocked Ali out in the 11th, and of course the dramatic knockdown in the 15th. I can't allow this to curtain the fact that Ali was very busy in the rest of the rounds, pointing away at Frazier while Joe swung at air several times. Frazier's attempts to mock Ali were cute and all (like the pretend punching bag thing he did to Ali's stomach, and the time when he grabbed Muhammad's arms and pulled him to the center of the ring, etc.), but they were usually followed by Ali staying off of the ropes and making it difficult for Frazier to get to him.

I think this whole fight has an aura of myth around it, with the tail end overshadowing the preceding rounds in most people's eyes. Frazier did work harder, displayed more heart, more readiness; I just think that technically, Ali won on points in most rounds, and therefore should have been given the decision. While this fight clearly didn't affect Ali's status as a legend, it could have changed the course of a few things. As always, discuss, flame, tear, eat, enjoy, etc.

SABBATH
06-15-2006, 01:26 PM
I had it 9-6 to Frazier from memory... the myth that Ali was completely dominated throughout the fight that some here on this board perpertuate is bull****. Ali put up a good fight and inflicted heavy punishment on Joe.. but Joe being the true warrior he is dug deep, persevered and won the fight.I've viewed this fight more times than I can count and own copies of it in both a filmed version (the Fighters) and the closed-circuit video version, both which have different and contrasting camera positions. You can get a different perspective of rounds and exchanges depending on what angle you watch it from.

The fight was basically up for grabs after ten rounds. The post exile Ali had a pattern in 15 round fights. He would often start fast to try and sweep the early rounds. He would then coast a bit in the middle rounds, then step it up in the last five.

Ali conserved energy in the middle rounds and got outworked by Joe and these rounds ultimately proved to be costly to Ali because of the 11th round. Ali foolishly stayed in the corner after backing Joe off and waved Joe back in so he could 'shoeshine' him. The monster left hook that Ali ate changed the complexion of the fight, won the round for Joe and probably had Ali in a bit of a fog for a couple of rounds afterwards. Ali starting coming on in the 14th and looked fresh and fast to start the 15th but another Frazier left hook "blew the candles out on the birthday cake" to quote Drew Brown.

Referee Arthur Mercante was an exprienced, unbiased referee with the best view in the house. He had the fight 7-6-1 going into the last round and I'm good with that. There were some close rounds but because of the dominant 11th and 15th I've always considered Joe to be the winner of the FOTC.

I will say that Ali's onslaught in the first 5 rounds were brutal and there are few heavyweights that would have survived without being spent either mentally and/or physically. Frazier's herculean effort sent him to the hospital for weeks afterwards where he admittedly was close to death. That's the toll it took on Joe and it speaks volumes of his heart, courage and determination to emerge the victor.

NJFighter91
06-15-2006, 07:24 PM
Anyone know where I can get a video torrent of it because I don't have cable and they don't show boxing on free networks so I need to download it. I really want to see this fight.

Brassangel
06-15-2006, 11:40 PM
I guess it's safe to assume that the judges were granting a few points for heart, determination, and will. That's fair. I'm not upset with the result, I just felt that technically, based on points, Ali seemed to pile them up to an almost insurmountable number. That could, of course, speak volumes for Frazier since he did stay with it and fought it out until the very end.

Hard Boiled HK
06-16-2006, 10:44 PM
I really want to see their 2nd and 3rd fight! Does anyone have them, and if so, could anyone be so kind as to upload them?

Frazier's 15th round
07-04-2006, 11:14 PM
Okay, I just watched it for the first time in a while, and 11-4 is a bit too biased. I think Ali won 1, 2, 4, 5, 9, and 14, while Frazier won 3, 6, 7, 8, 10, 11, 12, 13, and 15.

So 9-6.

K-DOGG
07-04-2006, 11:19 PM
Maybe I'm nuts, but it's come up a lot lately (and in the past) and it bothers me. I have Ali winning at least 8-9 rounds in this fight, with the big rounds (11 and 15) of course going to Frazier. While Frazier showed incredible heart, stamina, and had Ali out on his feet in the 11th, I believe that Ali won on points and on rounds. Since the fight was scored by rounds, I think that Frazier may have been gifted by a change of heart from the judges as the fight progressed. Not that Frazier didn't fight a spectacular fight, I just think that Ali was taken a bit.

Your thoughts....

Hate to disagree with you; but Ali gave away too many rounds laying on the ropes to win this fight. I don't remember my score; but I know Frazier won. Can't watch it again because my old VCR ate the tape in it's death throws.

:mad: I miss that damn tape.

TysonK.O.
07-05-2006, 03:04 AM
can some1 post the video i havent seen it and it seems like a great fight..plz

The Raging Bull
07-05-2006, 06:35 AM
The last time i watched the fight, which was about 4 days ago :D , i had it 8-7 to Frazier but on my first viewing i thought Ali had won.

KoolWillie
07-05-2006, 08:45 AM
here the highlights from 1,2,3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPa3SoV57SE&search=Frazier%20Ali

The Noose
07-05-2006, 09:17 AM
Everyone should try to get hold of the documentry 'The Fighters'on DVD, it shows all the build up, plus the whole fight without any commentry, so i believe u get to make up ur own mind, and hear alot of those brutal punches landing.

I always had it for Frazier, but i got to watch it again.

I think in alot of rounds, its a case of Fraziers big left versus Ali's jab.
Does one big shot equal many scoring lighter punches?

The Noose
07-05-2006, 09:21 AM
Im downloading the fight now, i should have it uploaded later.

Frazier's 15th round
07-11-2006, 01:47 AM
From ESB:

"An article in the Winnipeg Free Press from March 17, 1973 claims that in the first fight between Frazier and Ali, Frazier landed 579 punches while Ali landed 592 punches. If accurate, this is far higher than the highest number of punches landed in heavyweight title fights in recent years. Even taking into account that the fight was 15 rounds this still seems incredible."

So much for Ali outlanding Frazier 3:1.