Whats up with all the haters on this site? Some people just cant give anyone any ****ing credit no matter what they do.

James Toney beats the hell out of a guy for 12 rounds in a comeback fight, and all the haters said he should have looked better, he didnt knock him out and all this bull**** when NO ONE ELSE HAS KNOCKED HIM OUT EITHER!!!

Then we have DLH, who steps up and takes the fight against the most dangerous man at Middle, Bernard Hopkins. Yes, DLH lost the fight but he was hanging in there pretty good the whole time until the dody shot. Of course all the DLH haters come out of the woodwork and talk **** and refuse to give him any credit for fighting Hopkins in the first place.

Now we have Felix Trinidad. After 2.5 years off, the guy decides to come out of retirement and fight the very dangerous Ricardo Mayorga. Tito comes out, takes some big shots, goes toe to toe, and beats Mayorga down like no one has before. After this here comes the Tito haters talking about, Mayorga was a welter weight, he was made for Tito, Titos not back, and all this other bull****, like Mayorga isnt a dangerous fighter when you know all their asses had Mayorga picked to win the fight before he got beat down on Saturday.

Cant you MF's give anyone any credit for ****? All the people I mention here are all-time greats. Im not talkning about people like Wlad Klitchsko who havent proved them self in the sport, Im talking about really great fighters.

The topic of this thread is: What is up with these people who cant give someone credit when credit is due? :confused:

there both true tho..but if i would give credit to any of these it would be tito before toney

even shot tyson would have ko'ed the guy toney fought in one round..second guy was a bum...third...he hurt his hand on a bum and he;s out for 6months again!...well toney gotta go back to lifting those big pieces of chocolate cake so he can get his strength back :D ..anyway yeah..i am done

Whats up with all the haters on this site? Some people just cant give anyone any ****ing credit no matter what they do.

James Toney beats the hell out of a guy for 12 rounds in a comeback fight, and all the haters said he should have looked better, he didnt knock him out and all this bull**** when NO ONE ELSE HAS KNOCKED HIM OUT EITHER!!!

Then we have DLH, who steps up and takes the fight against the most dangerous man at Middle, Bernard Hopkins. Yes, DLH lost the fight but he was hanging in there pretty good the whole time until the dody shot. Of course all the DLH haters come out of the woodwork and talk **** and refuse to give him any credit for fighting Hopkins in the first place.

Now we have Felix Trinidad. After 2.5 years off, the guy decides to come out of retirement and fight the very dangerous Ricardo Mayorga. Tito comes out, takes some big shots, goes toe to toe, and beats Mayorga down like no one has before. After this here comes the Tito haters talking about, Mayorga was a welter weight, he was made for Tito, Titos not back, and all this other bull****, like Mayorga isnt a dangerous fighter when you know all their asses had Mayorga picked to win the fight before he got beat down on Saturday.

Cant you MF's give anyone any credit for ****? All the people I mention here are all-time greats. Im not talkning about people like Wlad Klitchsko who havent proved them self in the sport, Im talking about really great fighters.

The topic of this thread is: What is up with these people who cant give someone credit when credit is due? :confused:

Nice to see you conveniently left out Wlad.

Whats up with all the haters on this site? Some people just cant give anyone any ****ing credit no matter what they do.

James Toney beats the hell out of a guy for 12 rounds in a comeback fight, and all the haters said he should have looked better, he didnt knock him out and all this bull**** when NO ONE ELSE HAS KNOCKED HIM OUT EITHER!!!

Then we have DLH, who steps up and takes the fight against the most dangerous man at Middle, Bernard Hopkins. Yes, DLH lost the fight but he was hanging in there pretty good the whole time until the dody shot. Of course all the DLH haters come out of the woodwork and talk **** and refuse to give him any credit for fighting Hopkins in the first place.

Now we have Felix Trinidad. After 2.5 years off, the guy decides to come out of retirement and fight the very dangerous Ricardo Mayorga. Tito comes out, takes some big shots, goes toe to toe, and beats Mayorga down like no one has before. After this here comes the Tito haters talking about, Mayorga was a welter weight, he was made for Tito, Titos not back, and all this other bull****, like Mayorga isnt a dangerous fighter when you know all their asses had Mayorga picked to win the fight before he got beat down on Saturday.

Cant you MF's give anyone any credit for ****? All the people I mention here are all-time greats. Im not talkning about people like Wlad Klitchsko who havent proved them self in the sport, Im talking about really great fighters.

The topic of this thread is: What is up with these people who cant give someone credit when credit is due? :confused:

You're right, of course.


















I hate you for it!!! :D

there both true tho..but if i would give credit to any of these it would be tito before toney

even shot tyson would have ko'ed the guy toney fought in one round..second guy was a bum...third...he hurt his hand on a bum and he;s out for 6months again!...well toney gotta go back to lifting those big pieces of chocolate cake so he can get his strength back :D ..anyway yeah..i am done

What I want to know is how the **** can you say something like Tyson would have KOed him in one round when NO ONE has been able to KO this guy!! You just cant say **** like that because no precident has been set.

Nice to see you conveniently left out Wlad.

There is a bit about Wlad in there if you read it again, Hes not a great fighter like the others I mention.

because all these fighters are trying to "come back" and they their fans demand them to be put on top of the P4p list for beating nobodies or simply hanging in there against someone good, Or KOing very technically challenged and smaller fighters, etc.

They deserve credit for their victories of lesser opponents but thats what they are. Some people nuthug sooo tight the sperm is about ready to pop in their face.

In my opinion all these fighters quitting, wether it be officially, mentally or whatever then trying to come back are making a mockery of the sport.

What I want to know is how the **** can you say something like Tyson would have KOed him in one round when NO ONE has been able to KO this guy!! You just cant say **** like that because no precident has been set.

Horrible analogy. It'd be like saying no one has conquered Canada so the U.S. would not be able to conquer it.

fine then horay toney rules...horay...happy? :D ...they both get credit then horay lol


i get what ur saying it happens to sturm also

Explosivo420sd, I have given these fighters credit. I have never said insults to these fighters like you say to Wladimir. I even said someone who watched with me thought James Toney looked like Frasier. I like De La Hoya, and I have never heard of Felix Trinidad. I am sure he is good. I hope everyone will give credit and respect. You need to give respect to Wladimir too. I have seen your posts, you were certain Wladimir would lose to Williamson, you were bragging before the fight began. Wladimir won, and you still said many insults. I have never seen you give respect to a former WBO world champion who defended his title successfully several times. He is ranked fifth in the world now. You need to give credit too. I hope you are not hater too.

There is a bit about Wlad in there if you read it again, Hes not a great fighter like the others I mention.

So let me get this straight, Toney has proven more at HW than Wlad. Laughable man...just laughable.

but in my denfense..toney hurt him..so how would tyson not???

So let me get this straight, Toney has proven more at HW than Wlad. Laughable man...just laughable.

Did I say HW? Where did I say HW? Im talking career *******. Are you telling us all the Wlad has accomplished more in his career than James Toney? :confused:

but in my denfense..toney hurt him..so how would tyson not???

I agree Tyson would have hurt him too, but Im just saying you cant say he would KO him until we have something to compare it to.

Did I say HW? Where did I say HW? Im talking career *******. Are you telling us all the Wlad has accomplished more in his career than James Toney? :confused:

It doesn't matter what he has done in his career. Heavyweight is a whole new ball game. And until he proves himself at HW, a lot of people are going to be "hating."

fair enough...i still think win..lol..but yeah..some fighters dont get respect they deserve..i wanna see toney vs wlad to put this to rest once and for all i say it wouldnt be a bad fight..toney doesnt have much power..and wlad been going kinda downhill..let them fight!

ppl please, we are here cuz we love boxing and we are fans of the sport. There will be always ppl that hate some and love some fighters...I dont hate guys like Cinical and Jack_my_***** cuz they hate Tito...Just LOL at them and say **** IT!!! :D

Explosivo420sd, I have given these fighters credit. I have never said insults to these fighters like you say to Wladimir. I even said someone who watched with me thought James Toney looked like Frasier. I like De La Hoya, and I have never heard of Felix Trinidad. I am sure he is good. I hope everyone will give credit and respect. You need to give respect to Wladimir too. I have seen your posts, you were certain Wladimir would lose to Williamson, you were bragging before the fight began. Wladimir won, and you still said many insults. I have never seen you give respect to a former WBO world champion who defended his title successfully several times. He is ranked fifth in the world now. You need to give credit too. I hope you are not hater too.

Winter, what you may not understand is that there is a difference in class between the Wlad's and the De La Hoya, Tony, and Trinidads of the world. Wlad is not a great fighter and still has a lot to prove. If I was to give Wlad credit, what would it be for? He beat Byrd a long time ago, in his last 3 fights he was KOed twice and from what I heard looked like crap last weekend against a no name fighter. So I dont know what kind of credit you think anyone should give to Wlad right now.

Explosivo420sd, you lost a lot creditability when you just said you did not see Wladimir's fight against Williamson, and only heard about it. You said so many insults about Wladimir after the fight, as if you actually saw the fight. It really wasn't that close.

It doesn't matter what he has done in his career. Heavyweight is a whole new ball game. And until he proves himself at HW, a lot of people are going to be "hating."

Sorry Neuraxis, but yes, it does matter what he has done in his carrer. I agree that he needs to prove more at heavy, but the guy hasnt looked bad at heavy. Give him credit for the progress he has made and reserve judgement on if you think he can compete with the big boys or not. Thats all you have to do.

its kinda frikin umm whats that black dude name..emmanuel steward or somethings fault..he changed wlad whole fighitn style and wlad cat seem to fight like that

i have another one!!!

vitali..great HW fight with corrie and beat his ass towards the end..a man that would have given lewis problem..and still does not get credit..he can ko tyson-toney-and bryd..and people would still say he never beat LL ...but rememeber LL wanted no part of him again...so VK now there a man that has to work twice as hard as anyone for respect and he has said this and knows it..but just smiles it off and keeps fighting..which is way i like that guy..screw them and keep fighting and ko'ing ppl VK

Explosivo420sd, you lost a lot creditability when you just said you did not see Wladimir's fight against Williamson, and only heard about it. You said so many insults about Wladimir after the fight, as if you actually saw the fight. It really wasn't that close.

Ok, Winter. Im sorry. Did Wlad look good in the fight? Did he get hurt at all?

its kinda frikin umm whats that black dude name..emmanuel steward or somethings fault..he changed wlad whole fighitn style and wlad cat seem to fight like that

i have another one!!!

vitali..great HW fight with corrie and beat his ass towards the end..a man that would have given lewis problem..and still does not get credit..he can ko tyson-toney-and bryd..and people would still say he never beat LL ...but rememeber LL wanted no part of him again...so VK now there a man that has to work twice as hard as anyone for respect and he has said this and knows it..but just smiles it off and keeps fighting..which is way i like that guy..screw them and keep fighting and ko'ing ppl VK

I give VK some props. He as good as we got right now at heavy.

Ok, Winter. Im sorry. Did Wlad look good in the fight? Did he get hurt at all?

Trying to gain your credibility. You create this topic of hate, yet you may be the biggest hater. I don't think in the history, one Wladimir fan has ever said insulting things about another fighter without seeing the fight first. You might be the first Dan Rather of boxingscene. Wladimir did look good, he showed great heart coming back quickly in the same round. He paced himself very well. Also twice he almost knocked out Williamson in the second and fourth round. Not bad for five rounds of boxing.

Trying to gain your credibility. You create this topic of hate, yet you may be the biggest hater. I don't think in the history, one Wladimir fan has ever said insulting things about another fighter without seeing the fight first. You might be the first Dan Rather of boxingscene. Wladimir did look good, he showed great heart coming back quickly in the same round. He paced himself very well. Also twice he almost knocked out Williamson in the second and fourth round. Not bad for five rounds of boxing.

LOL! Dan Rather of Boxingscene. I like that!

Winter, I only wish to discuss fighters who are indeed great and have not been getting credit when credit is due. Wlad does not fit into this category. Sorry, he just doesnt. I thought wlad was done after the Brewster fight. He looked like a done fighter. If he wants to continue to box, more power to him. I dont think hes very good and thats my opinion. It certainly is not a fact that he is a good fighter now. Maybe he used to be better, but now hes not that great. You need to face reality. Im not saying he can never get better because anythings possible, I just think he has an uphill battle. But like I said, Wlad doesnt qualify in this conversation. I am talking about great fighters like DLH, Toney and Trinidad.

Trying to gain your credibility. You create this topic of hate, yet you may be the biggest hater. I don't think in the history, one Wladimir fan has ever said insulting things about another fighter without seeing the fight first. You might be the first Dan Rather of boxingscene. Wladimir did look good, he showed great heart coming back quickly in the same round. He paced himself very well. Also twice he almost knocked out Williamson in the second and fourth round. Not bad for five rounds of boxing.

Winter, this is from the front page of boxingscene on the Wlad fight

In what I thought was a poor performance, Wladimir Klitschko defeated DaVarryl Williamson by a technical split decision. Prior to the fight with Corrie Sanders, Williamson wouldnt have lasted 1 round with Wladimir Klitschko, now he holds his own against Wlad. I thought Wlad looked like he was getting tired in round 5 and he was holding way too much. Wlad showed too much respect for Williamson and should have went on the attack as Williamson is a very slow starter. The end came when there was a clash of heads and Klitschko had a nasty cut on his head, his left eye had a cut over it as well. Williamson caught Wlad with a right hand in round four and dropped him, more of a flash knockdown.

What kind of credit do you want people to give this man Winter? He got KOed by two bums IMO and he barely won a split decision against a 3rd bum. Wake up and smell the coffee Winter.

Now, back to talking about good fighters!

fans and haters is an inevitable thing. I think when most of the people are watching boxing they are not looking at the actual boxing but looking for a fighter that they can associate themselves with. And when they find one, they take all the offences that were received by that fighter on their account and start hating.
but back to topic. I think Toney received enough credit for his victtory over Booker. He was made a mandatory contender for Vitaly's belt. What else do you need. He got a title shot.

Whats up with all the haters on this site? Some people just cant give anyone any ****ing credit no matter what they do.

James Toney beats the hell out of a guy for 12 rounds in a comeback fight, and all the haters said he should have looked better, he didnt knock him out and all this bull**** when NO ONE ELSE HAS KNOCKED HIM OUT EITHER!!!

Then we have DLH, who steps up and takes the fight against the most dangerous man at Middle, Bernard Hopkins. Yes, DLH lost the fight but he was hanging in there pretty good the whole time until the dody shot. Of course all the DLH haters come out of the woodwork and talk **** and refuse to give him any credit for fighting Hopkins in the first place.

Now we have Felix Trinidad. After 2.5 years off, the guy decides to come out of retirement and fight the very dangerous Ricardo Mayorga. Tito comes out, takes some big shots, goes toe to toe, and beats Mayorga down like no one has before. After this here comes the Tito haters talking about, Mayorga was a welter weight, he was made for Tito, Titos not back, and all this other bull****, like Mayorga isnt a dangerous fighter when you know all their asses had Mayorga picked to win the fight before he got beat down on Saturday.

Cant you MF's give anyone any credit for ****? All the people I mention here are all-time greats. Im not talkning about people like Wlad Klitchsko who havent proved them self in the sport, Im talking about really great fighters.

The topic of this thread is: What is up with these people who cant give someone credit when credit is due? :confused:

Is this an MTV board? I can't believe people who don't participate in hero-worship for certain "icons" are given the "hater" tag. What's next? Talk to the hand? Maybe these forums should divided by age.

Sorry Neuraxis, but yes, it does matter what he has done in his carrer. I agree that he needs to prove more at heavy, but the guy hasnt looked bad at heavy. Give him credit for the progress he has made and reserve judgement on if you think he can compete with the big boys or not. Thats all you have to do.

He hasn't exactly taken any risks. If he wouldn't have injured himself he would have fought Beck. What a gamble.

Trying to gain your credibility. You create this topic of hate, yet you may be the biggest hater. I don't think in the history, one Wladimir fan has ever said insulting things about another fighter without seeing the fight first. You might be the first Dan Rather of boxingscene. Wladimir did look good, he showed great heart coming back quickly in the same round. He paced himself very well. Also twice he almost knocked out Williamson in the second and fourth round. Not bad for five rounds of boxing.

Hahaha good one. Keep up the good work.

Winter, this is from the front page of boxingscene on the Wlad fight

In what I thought was a poor performance, Wladimir Klitschko defeated DaVarryl Williamson by a technical split decision. Prior to the fight with Corrie Sanders, Williamson wouldnt have lasted 1 round with Wladimir Klitschko, now he holds his own against Wlad. I thought Wlad looked like he was getting tired in round 5 and he was holding way too much. Wlad showed too much respect for Williamson and should have went on the attack as Williamson is a very slow starter. The end came when there was a clash of heads and Klitschko had a nasty cut on his head, his left eye had a cut over it as well. Williamson caught Wlad with a right hand in round four and dropped him, more of a flash knockdown.

What kind of credit do you want people to give this man Winter? He got KOed by two bums IMO and he barely won a split decision against a 3rd bum. Wake up and smell the coffee Winter.

Now, back to talking about good fighters!

Oh so I guess Sanderline Williams and Drake Thazdi are world beaters now. Shouldn't you be out there trying to make sure that Montell Griffin doesn't make the jump to heavyweight.

You gotta expect it. Not everyone will share the shame opinion on a fighter. There will always be "nuthuggers" and "haters". We're all dubbed one of the two. But this is good for a forum. Creates much heated debates.

You gotta expect it. Not everyone will share the shame opinion on a fighter. There will always be "nuthuggers" and "haters". We're all dubbed one of the two. But this is good for a forum. Creates much heated debates.

It's only good for a forum when someone actually has something to say. A "Wlad Rules," "Wlad Drools" debate belongs at a pep rally, not a sportsboard.

It's only good for a forum when someone actually has something to say. A "Wlad Rules," "Wlad Drools" debate belongs at a pep rally, not a sportsboard.

Hey man, whether you think the other guy's arguments or valid or not he won't care. It's still gonna cause rucus. "Wlad Rules" or whatnot, people are still gonna post and argue.

Im just talking about people who will never give a fighter credit for ****. And I use the latest DLH, Toney and Trinidad fights as an example. Those guys deserve some credit. They are great fighters and they need to be recognized. These people in here talking to me about not giving Wlad prorps make me laugh. What am I supposed to do? Give the guy props for getting KOed in his last 2 fights and winning a split decision againt a nobody? Im talking about people here who deserve some props, like Trinidad, Toney, DLH, Hopkins. People like that. Not Wlad Klitchsko's.

Im just talking about people who will never give a fighter credit for ****. And I use the latest DLH, Toney and Trinidad fights as an example. Those guys deserve some credit. They are great fighters and they need to be recognized. These people in here talking to me about not giving Wlad prorps make me laugh. What am I supposed to do? Give the guy props for getting KOed in his last 2 fights and winning a split decision againt a nobody? Im talking about people here who deserve some props, like Trinidad, Toney, DLH, Hopkins. People like that. Not Wlad Klitchsko's.

Dear Dan Rather:

How can you expect the hating to stop when you keep on hating? Where are the fake Klitschko documents? Keep it up with the biased work.

Dear Dan Rather:

How can you expect the hating to stop when you keep on hating? Where are the fake Klitschko documents? Keep it up with the biased work.

Ok dude, lets have it out since your ruining my thread with your nuthugging Wlad ****. Are you so blind that you think he belongs in the same leeague as Trinidad, DLH and Toney?

Why should I give Wlad props at all? What has he done for boxing lately? To me it looks like all he's done is make 2 bums, Corie Sander and Lamon Brewster, famous becuase he got KOed by them. Should I give Wlad props for not getting knocked out on Saturday? I guess I'll give him props for that.

Well at least he fights 3 or 4 times a year and does not receive the injuries after every fight. And for the heavyweight devision like the one that we have this is truly an acomplishment. At least when he comes into that ring he fights and doesnot run around ar hug all 12 rounds. When Klit comes into that ring a viewer can expect a sure KO cause W. Klit either knocks people out or gets knocked out.

Oh so I guess Sanderline Williams and Drake Thazdi are world beaters now. Shouldn't you be out there trying to make sure that Montell Griffin doesn't make the jump to heavyweight.

I like how you avoided this one.

Ok dude, lets have it out since your ruining my thread with your nuthugging Wlad ****. Are you so blind that you think he belongs in the same leeague as Trinidad, DLH and Toney?

Why should I give Wlad props at all? What has he done for boxing lately? To me it looks like all he's done is make 2 bums, Corie Sander and Lamon Brewster, famous becuase he got KOed by them. Should I give Wlad props for not getting knocked out on Saturday? I guess I'll give him props for that.

Why should I give Toney props? He has managed to beat a shot Holyfield in which the early rounds were way too even and he has beaten a fighter who'd be lucky to make it into the top 100.

Wlad does have more legitimate heavyweight wins than Toney, though it's been a little while since he defeated the last one, Danell Nicholson, and no American saw that one because HBO passed on it. I see big question marks surrounding both Wlad and Toney as to their futures.

I guess that's what makes them more intriguing than say, Rafael Marquez or Ivan Calderon, who everyone just assumes will win their next fights.

Wlad does have more legitimate heavyweight wins than Toney, though it's been a little while since he defeated the last one, Danell Nicholson, and no American saw that one because HBO passed on it. I see big question marks surrounding both Wlad and Toney as to their futures.

I guess that's what makes them more intriguing than say, Rafael Marquez or Ivan Calderon, who everyone just assumes will win their next fights.

Exactly. And as for Danell Nicholson this is what I've been saying all along. He beat Nicholson after the Sanders fiasco, and he still looked (wasn't cautious or unsure of himself) and fought (he was using his old style pre-Manny Steward) like the old Wlad. I don't know what could possibly be more damning evidence against what Steward is doing to Wlad than the Nicholson fight.

Exactly. And as for Danell Nicholson this is what I've been saying all along. He beat Nicholson after the Sanders fiasco, and he still looked (wasn't cautious or unsure of himself) and fought (he was using his old style pre-Manny Steward) like the old Wlad. I don't know what could possibly be more damning evidence against what Steward is doing to Wlad than the Nicholson fight.

I shouldn't have said that no American saw it. I saw it. We just didn't see it live. Roy Jones is an example of how a guy can crumble in a very short time - not that Roy has to be done as a boxer. Wlad still has it in him to beat some very good boxers; the fact that he still has it in him to lose to and to look bad to some not so very good boxers is what keeps people from continuing to buy the hype. Some see him as another Michael Grant.

I just wonder if Wlad has a less than stellar record in the next few fights (like Glen Johnson), if he'll still get the exposure and the shots at big names. Will you still watch him if he loses every third fight? And if so, will you still defend him as "one of the best?"

I shouldn't have said that no American saw it. I saw it. We just didn't see it live. Roy Jones is an example of how a guy can crumble in a very short time - not that Roy has to be done as a boxer. Wlad still has it in him to beat some very good boxers; the fact that he still has it in him to lose to and to look bad to some not so very good boxers is what keeps people from continuing to buy the hype. Some see him as another Michael Grant.

I just wonder if Wlad has a less than stellar record in the next few fights (like Glen Johnson), if he'll still get the exposure and the shots at big names. Will you still watch him if he loses every third fight? And if so, will you still defend him as "one of the best?"

Yes I would. But why would Wlad go down hill after the Nicholson fight?

i would give tito credit
but he talks to much **** about oscar and we all know oscar beat his ass
when dlh fought hopkins he did crazy and was doing rreally good n deserves a rematch
oscar came from 130 ****in pounds

Explosive

Aw there are haters everywhere man. No point in getting upset about it. I myself guilty of the occasional hating.....

But when I take the haterade, it doesn't blind me to fact. The same cannot be said for the vast majority of haters that Explosive is talking about here. Like some of you who refuse to give Roy Jones credit for his career (looking in Dr. cynical's direction). Like some of you who won't give Tito credit.

I don't like the Klit bros. I will admit it straight up. But I will also admit that V. Klit is the man to beat at heavyweight. No point in denying it. As much as I dislike the big white galoot, he IS the man at heavyweight. His brother is an irreparably shot fighter. This can't be denied either.

Nothing wrong with a little hate.....as long as it doesn't blind you to truth.

Yes I would. But why would Wlad go down hill after the Nicholson fight?

I don't know. Is it psychological? Does it have anything with Vitali's success? I know watching Wlad push Brewster hard into the ropes in Round 1 and the announcers saying, "It appears he's learning the American style" didn't look like that was how he should have been fighting.

I think Wlad may be an A- or B+ fighter as opposed to the A or A+ fighter he was being touted and facing that is hurting his performances. It would be hard to stand in Vitali's corner and hear him be announced as the champion of the world.

I truly think Wlad looked nervous, almost scared to screw up early in the fight vs. DaVarryl. He was paying attention to being "controlled" but it didn't look like the same guy who was effortlessly pounding decent heavyweight names that you can see on the Klitschkos web site. Something is different. Maybe it's Wlad being scared of any more failures. Being scared to lose hurts how you perform. If you play not to lose, it's different than playing to win.

I don't know. Is it psychological? Does it have anything with Vitali's success? I know watching Wlad push Brewster hard into the ropes in Round 1 and the announcers saying, "It appears he's learning the American style" didn't look like that was how he should have been fighting.

I think Wlad may be an A- or B+ fighter as opposed to the A or A+ fighter he was being touted and facing that is hurting his performances. It would be hard to stand in Vitali's corner and hear him be announced as the champion of the world.

I truly think Wlad looked nervous, almost scared to screw up early in the fight vs. DaVarryl. He was paying attention to being "controlled" but it didn't look like the same guy who was effortlessly pounding decent heavyweight names that you can see on the Klitschkos web site. Something is different. Maybe it's Wlad being scared of any more failures. Being scared to lose hurts how you perform. If you play not to lose, it's different than playing to win.


I would imagine its a combination of all of them. Trying to learn a new style when you should really be focusing on fine tuning the one you have had all along, as well as the enormous amount of pressure that is on him. I think a lof the last fight had to do with everyone saying that if he loses that he should hang it up. That's a hell of a lot of pressure right there. Also I don't know why Vitali's success should bother him that much. I mean the German announcer would annouce/introduce Wlad even when it was Vitali who was fighting.

I like how you avoided this one.

I avoided it because it made no sense and had no place in this conversation.

Wlad is done. What more is there to say? He became a top contender in a division that really wasn't worth a damn in the first place.

I avoided it because it made no sense and had no place in this conversation.

Oh my mistake its ok to mention bums who have beaten Wlad, but its not ok to mention bums who have beaten Toney. I understand how it works now...

Wlad is done. What more is there to say? He became a top contender in a division that really wasn't worth a damn in the first place.

And its only getting worse bro, and Wlad just happens to be only 28 when everyone under 30 is a bum.

Why should I give Toney props? He has managed to beat a shot Holyfield in which the early rounds were way too even and he has beaten a fighter who'd be lucky to make it into the top 100.

I asked you a question and your not answering it. Why should I give Wlad props? Thats why you think Im a hater right? I dont give him props because he has never proven himself to be a great fighter and out of his last 3 fights he was KOed in two of them and won a split decision while getting KD in the third. Quit ducking the question.

You dont have to give Toney props, but Wlads career does not stack up against his and he has won his last 3 fights unlike Wlad. You cant compare the two.

I asked you a question and your not answering it. Why should I give Wlad props? Thats why you think Im a hater right? I dont give him props because he has never proven himself to be a great fighter and out of his last 3 fights he was KOed in two of them and won a split decision while getting KD in the third. Quit ducking the question.

You dont have to give Toney props, but Wlads career does not stack up against his and he has won his last 3 fights unlike Wlad. You cant compare the two.

The main difference at this point, to me, is that Toney only has a couple fights left in him (if that, with the injuries and such), while Wlad could still fight for a number of years, though at what level is questionable.

I asked you a question and your not answering it. Why should I give Wlad props? Thats why you think Im a hater right? I dont give him props because he has never proven himself to be a great fighter and out of his last 3 fights he was KOed in two of them and won a split decision and was KD in the third. Quit ducking the question.

You dont have to give Toney props, but Wlads career does not stack up against his and he has won his last 3 fights unlike Wlad. You cant compare the two.

He was KO'd 2 times in his past 3 fights? That's news to me. Where did you hear this? He has been TKO'd 2 times in his past 5 fights. You should give Wlad props because he has beaten better heavyweights in the most dominate manner than any other heavyweight contender or title holder out there today.

He was KO'd 2 times in his past 3 fights? That's news to me. Where did you hear this? He has been TKO'd 2 times in his past 5 fights. You should give Wlad props because he has beaten better heavyweights in the most dominate manner than any other heavyweight contender or title holder out there today.

My bad. I forgot about the one that wasnt on TV because no one wanted to pay for it.

I never said that he was never a good fighter. He was once good and hyped up like Michael Grant, but then crumbled like Michael Grant. This conversation is taking place on 10/05/04, not 2 or so years ago when Wlad was a good fighter. Im talking about today and what people are doing. Wake up and smell the coffee when it comes to that guy. How many more times does he have to look like **** for you concede that he sucks? Your like a Tyson fan that thinks hes still going to come back and clean out the division.

My bad. I forgot about the one that wasnt on TV because no one wanted to pay for it.

I never said that he was never a good fighter. He was once good and hyped up like Michael Grant, but then crumbled like Michael Grant. This conversation is taking place on 10/05/04, not 2 or so years ago when Wlad was a good fighter. Im talking about today and what people are doing. Wake up and smell the coffee when it comes to that guy. How many more times does he have to look like **** for you concede that he sucks? Your like a Tyson fan that thinks hes still going to come back and clean out the division.

Oh so now we are comparing Grant to Wlad. The last I checked one good win (Golota) doesn't compare to what Wlad did, and Wlad is only 28. If Tyson wouldn't have gotten injured I would see him beating every beltholder except Vitali.

Oh so now we are comparing Grant to Wlad. The last I checked one good win (Golota) doesn't compare to what Wlad did, and Wlad is only 28. If Tyson wouldn't have gotten injured I would see him beating every beltholder except Vitali.

Good post nueraxis!

Rep points for you!

Oh so now we are comparing Grant to Wlad. The last I checked one good win (Golota) doesn't compare to what Wlad did, and Wlad is only 28. If Tyson wouldn't have gotten injured I would see him beating every beltholder except Vitali.


i agree there, mostly because tyson comes out fighting with a means to destroy his opponents, there is no "feeling out rounds" for mike tyson, its simply go out there and murder as quick as he can, hes going for the knockout, and for that reason, people still want to see him fight.

The reason I don't give Toney props is because he has done nothing to deserve a #1 ranking except run his mouth!!! Don't get me wrong! He has had a great career, but not at heavyweight and never will in my oppinion!!! Especially after Green had his way with Toney in there sparring session!!! Toney needs to fight a real top 10 guy before he gets a title shot...

Oh so now we are comparing Grant to Wlad. The last I checked one good win (Golota) doesn't compare to what Wlad did, and Wlad is only 28. If Tyson wouldn't have gotten injured I would see him beating every beltholder except Vitali.

Im comparing Wlad to Grant in the way that they are now, both half the men they used to be.

I disagree with you on Tyson too, but everyones entitled to their opinions.

Im comparing Wlad to Grant in the way that they are now, both half the men they used to be.

I disagree with you on Tyson too, but everyones entitled to their opinions.

Let's say Wlad = 6 and Grant = 1. If you take half of 1 you get .5 for Grant and if you take half of 6 you get 3 for Wlad. Case in point Wlad is still miles ahead of Grant.

Let's say Wlad = 6 and Grant = 1. If you take half of 1 you get .5 for Grant and if you take half of 6 you get 3 for Wlad. Case in point Wlad is still miles ahead of Grant.

Ok, whatever. Wlad is better that Grant. Neither are great fighters. Can we at least agree on that?

Neither are good fighters they are both very very average

Like I've said before, what does that make everyone below him?

World Heavyweight Ratings

Name Age Points Debut W-L-D » Last 6 »
1 Vitali Klitschko 33 2,043 1996 34-2-0

2 James Toney 36 1,999 1988 68-4-2

3 Joe Mesi 30 1,995 1997 29-0-0

4 Chris Byrd 34 1,983 1993 37-2-1

5 Wladimir Klitschko 28 1,961 1996 43-3-0

Sorry Neuraxis was that post to me

It was to you and explosivo.

Like I've said before, what does that make everyone below him?

World Heavyweight Ratings

Name Age Points Debut W-L-D » Last 6 »
1 Vitali Klitschko 33 2,043 1996 34-2-0

2 James Toney 36 1,999 1988 68-4-2

3 Joe Mesi 30 1,995 1997 29-0-0

4 Chris Byrd 34 1,983 1993 37-2-1

5 Wladimir Klitschko 28 1,961 1996 43-3-0

So the Heavyweight division is very weak at the moment. That doesnt make Wlad a great fighter. He's two spots under Mesi. Is Mesi an all time great too?

Like I've said before, what does that make everyone below him?

World Heavyweight Ratings

Name Age Points Debut W-L-D » Last 6 »
1 Vitali Klitschko 33 2,043 1996 34-2-0

2 James Toney 36 1,999 1988 68-4-2

3 Joe Mesi 30 1,995 1997 29-0-0

4 Chris Byrd 34 1,983 1993 37-2-1

5 Wladimir Klitschko 28 1,961 1996 43-3-0


Is this your personal list of the top five or is it from boxrec or something, i'm not having a dig or anything just wondered.
My top 7 would be
Big Klit
Toney
Byrd
Ruiz
Rahman
Golota
Brewster
I would put baby klit at about 10 or 11 just, i just think his chin is shocking and believe as bad as some these other fighters are they would beat him, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

So the Heavyweight division is very weak at the moment. That doesnt make Wlad a great fighter. He's two spots under Mesi. Is Mesi an all time great too?

Finally we agree. The heavyweight division is weak now, but it is just going to get a lot worse before it gets any better. Everyone who is any good is older than 30 years of age. Wlad on the other hand is only 28. There is no one good out there under 30.

Is this your personal list of the top five or is it from boxrec or something, i'm not having a dig or anything just wondered.
My top 7 would be
Big Klit
Toney
Byrd
Ruiz
Rahman
Golota
Brewster
I would put baby klit at about 10 or 11 just, i just think his chin is shocking and believe as bad as some these other fighters are they would beat him, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

As he should be right now, he needs to work his way back up. I agree with that list except for maybe Brewster and Rahman. I guess you have to rate Brewster that high because he has a belt but Rahman has done nothing good in recent memory.

Finally we agree. The heavyweight division is weak now, but it is just going to get a lot worse before it gets any better. Everyone who is any good is older than 30 years of age. Wlad on the other hand is only 28. There is no one good out there under 30.
Come on man you should know age doesn't mean that much nowadays, just cos he's 28 doesn't mean he'll last say another 8 - 10 years, he's about done now so give him another couple of years and he's finished, his chin won't get any better, he's getting heavier so his co-ordination will get wosre, he'll get slower, his stamina will get worse, he'll pick up more injuries, it's all down hill for him now man :p
And just had another look at that division.....**** IT IS AS WEAK AS CAT PISS :eek:

Come on man you should know age doesn't mean that much nowadays, just cos he's 28 doesn't mean he'll last say another 8 - 10 years, he's about done now so give him another couple of years and he's finished, his chin won't get any better, he's getting heavier so his co-ordination will get wosre, he'll get slower, his stamina will get worse, he'll pick up more injuries, it's all down hill for him now man :p
And just had another look at that division.....**** IT IS AS WEAK AS CAT PISS :eek:

Apparently you've been missing the whole thing about him having trouble learning Manny's American style.

Apparently you've been missing the whole thing about him having trouble learning Manny's American style.

Why's that? On top of sucking is he retarded too?

No I havn't.
Wlad will do what come's naturally to him when the going get's tough, his euro style is more natural and manny is messing his style up a little bit but it's not all his fault, it's wlad glaring faults as a fighter that are getting him beat.

No I havn't.
Wlad will do what come's naturally to him when the going get's tough, his euro style is more natural and manny is messing his style up a little bit but it's not all his fault, it's wlad glaring faults as a fighter that are getting him beat.

Wlad's glaring faults have allowed him to be beaten 3 times one of which involved Manny's new style. And in his last 2 fights with Manny's style he has looked less than stellar.

Why's that? On top of sucking is he retarded too?

I'd like to see how Toney would look if Roach all of the sudden started having him fight like Lewis.

I'd like to see how Toney would look if Roach all of the sudden started having him fight like Lewis.

Really? You hate Toney that much?

I'd like to see how Toney would look if Roach all of the sudden started having him fight like Lewis.

For some reason you think Im this huge Toney fan just because I think he doeserved more credit than some, like you, were willing to give him after his last fight. I like Toney and I like to see him fight, but hes not my favorite fighter or anything. If he was getting KOed by guys like Brewster and Sanders I would say he sucks too.

Neuraxis.....


Is Wlad a robot ?
I think he is....& you seem to be confirming it.
When things heat up, where's the natural fighter ?

Nowhere to be found.

Sanders beat him cos he thought he would walk through him, not mentally ready for the fight and weak chin got him beat.
Brewster was another so called gimme, he dominates for a few rounds then gets stopped again, again not mentally ready for the fight he was in and weak chin, ( oh **** sorry that was the drugs!!!) now after being stopped 3 times out of 3 losses and two recently and early i'd say that some of his weaknesses are chin, lack of mental toughness and most obvious to me a huge lack of confidence in his own abilty to take a shot.
You think when manny's telling him to do train a certain way if he didn't feel comfortable with it he'd allow it to continue??? Would you!
Come on man you got to be a fool to allow that.
So again i'd say manny is only a very minor influence, i'd say it's down to him being exposed more as a fighter rather than let's all blame Steward

The way Toney fights.....he is a genius at it. He couldn't fight like Lewis because it doesn't suit him. ACtually Toney is a better boxer for what he does than Lennox Lewis. Lewis used his height and reach to their fullest effect which I don't fault him for, but there isn't much skill involved in that. Toney, stands there for his opponents to hit them, but manages not to get hit. He also deals out tremendous punishment in the process. THAT is what being a master fighter is. Dealing out the maximum amount of damage while taking next to none yourself.

For some reason you think Im this huge Toney fan just because I think he doeserved more credit than some, like you, were willing to give him after his last fight. I like Toney and I like to see him fight, but hes not my favorite fighter or anything. If he was getting KOed by guys like Brewster and Sanders I would say he sucks too.

Then you should know better that beating Booker doesn't mean anything and it was pretty much a wasted fight that someone as old as Toney should not be wasting what little time he has left.

Then you should know better that beating Booker doesn't mean anything and it was pretty much a wasted fight that someone as old as Toney should not be wasting what little time he has left.

He just came back from a serious injury and dominated! I dont think he should be the champ now and I tend to think that his #1 ranking after the fight isnt merited, but I gave him credit for fighting a good 12 rounds and dominating his opponent aftet an injury.

Toney started at 154, stands at 5'11 and is fighting heavyweights. He deserves credit for that alone.

He just came back from a serious injury and dominated! I dont think he should be the champ now and I tend to think that his #1 ranking after the fight isnt merited, but I gave him credit for fighting a good 12 rounds and dominating his opponent aftet an injury.

Well that's why I assume that you are diehard Toney fan because even the casual Toney fan realized that the only Booker fight accomplished was to see if Toney's achillies were healed. And it turns out that they are.

What I want to know is how the **** can you say something like Tyson would have KOed him in one round when NO ONE has been able to KO this guy!! You just cant say **** like that because no precident has been set.
Before you go any further about no one being able to KO Booker, please check out Booker's record and check the records of the guys he fought prior to Toney.

He's a bum who fought bigger bums.
That's why he was undefeated.

Toney really should have looked better out there.
He appeared tired in the middle of the match, took till the 8th round to get Booker to take a knee, then couldn't shake him after that.
Then to top it all off, Toney hurt himself with a bum.

So why should I respect or give credit to Toney?

Don't bring in his past accomplishments because those are in the past.
Why should I respect him for what he's done now?

I agree Tyson would have hurt him too, but Im just saying you cant say he would KO him until we have something to compare it to.
Current Tyson could KO Booker.
There's no questioning it.
Booker is a bum who fought lesser bums then went the full 12 with Toney and even injured Toney.

ppl please, we are here cuz we love boxing and we are fans of the sport. There will be always ppl that hate some and love some fighters...I dont hate guys like Cinical and Jack_my_***** cuz they hate Tito...Just LOL at them and say **** IT!!! :D
lol It must have made you very happy to see me give Trinidad credit for his win against Mayorga.

I don't like Trinidad, but I won't deny him the credit he deserves.

(RJJ would never get that out of me)

Winter, what you may not understand is that there is a difference in class between the Wlad's and the De La Hoya, Tony, and Trinidads of the world. Wlad is not a great fighter and still has a lot to prove. If I was to give Wlad credit, what would it be for? He beat Byrd a long time ago, in his last 3 fights he was KOed twice and from what I heard looked like crap last weekend against a no name fighter. So I dont know what kind of credit you think anyone should give to Wlad right now.
Toney was a good fighter.. in the past.
So what should I give him credit for now?

Is this an MTV board? I can't believe people who don't participate in hero-worship for certain "icons" are given the "hater" tag. What's next? Talk to the hand? Maybe these forums should divided by age.
lol You're just now noticing this?
Everytime I insult or don't give credit to someone the majority of members have wet dreams about, I'm blasted with all this fanboy bull****.
That's why I find it so funny and look forward to seeing the replies they post.

Explosive

Aw there are haters everywhere man. No point in getting upset about it. I myself guilty of the occasional hating.....

But when I take the haterade, it doesn't blind me to fact. The same cannot be said for the vast majority of haters that Explosive is talking about here. Like some of you who refuse to give Roy Jones credit for his career (looking in Dr. cynical's direction). Like some of you who won't give Tito credit.

I don't like the Klit bros. I will admit it straight up. But I will also admit that V. Klit is the man to beat at heavyweight. No point in denying it. As much as I dislike the big white galoot, he IS the man at heavyweight. His brother is an irreparably shot fighter. This can't be denied either.

Nothing wrong with a little hate.....as long as it doesn't blind you to truth.

Hmm.. You say you know about hate, yet you think people should still give credit to those they really hate?
I have extreme hatred for RJJ and I will never give him credit because of it.
Why should I?
I can't stand to watch him fight or hear him talk.

You should because you are ignoring fact.

You should because you are ignoring fact.
No, I'm just refusing to praise him the way everyone else is.
His fans just cannot stand it when someone does not praise him.

Current Tyson could KO Booker.
There's no questioning it.
Booker is a bum who fought lesser bums then went the full 12 with Toney and even injured Toney.

How do you know that? How can you say that Tyson would knock him out? For all you know Booker has the best chin this world has ever seen.

No, I'm just refusing to praise him the way everyone else is.
His fans just cannot stand it when someone does not praise him.

So you do what you do just to be a dick. I figured that was the case.

You cant deny Jones talent. Maybe its slipping away but the man has done a lot.

Before you go any further about no one being able to KO Booker, please check out Booker's record and check the records of the guys he fought prior to Toney.

He's a bum who fought bigger bums.
That's why he was undefeated.

Toney really should have looked better out there.
He appeared tired in the middle of the match, took till the 8th round to get Booker to take a knee, then couldn't shake him after that.
Then to top it all off, Toney hurt himself with a bum.

So why should I respect or give credit to Toney?

Don't bring in his past accomplishments because those are in the past.
Why should I respect him for what he's done now?

I dont agree that he should have looked better. I personally dont think there is much room to look better. He dominated the guy for the full 12 rounds in his first fight coming off an injury. I thought he did a great job and I give him credit.

What kind of comment is that "he hurt himself with a bum"? Comon, even you know thats lame. He hurt himself becuase he hit the poor guy so many god damn times!!!

He won in spite of his injury.

His injury was caused by inappropriate training. No professional with 70+ fights should show up to a fight so tight that his corner has to massage his arms between rounds.

How do you know that? How can you say that Tyson would knock him out? For all you know Booker has the best chin this world has ever seen.

Because you could tell Booker was hurt a lot during the fight, but Toney didn't have the punching power or stamina/combinations to finish the show.

I dont agree that he should have looked better. I personally dont think there is much room to look better. He dominated the guy for the full 12 rounds in his first fight coming off an injury. I thought he did a great job and I give him credit.

What kind of comment is that "he hurt himself with a bum"? Comon, even you know thats lame. He hurt himself becuase he hit the poor guy so many god damn times!!!

Actually like Neils pointed out his tightness, and his injury was caused by his wild power punches that he was throwing in the beginning of the 1st round. I remember Toney saying he hurt it in the 1st round.

Sanders beat him cos he thought he would walk through him, not mentally ready for the fight and weak chin got him beat.
Brewster was another so called gimme, he dominates for a few rounds then gets stopped again, again not mentally ready for the fight he was in and weak chin, ( oh **** sorry that was the drugs!!!) now after being stopped 3 times out of 3 losses and two recently and early i'd say that some of his weaknesses are chin, lack of mental toughness and most obvious to me a huge lack of confidence in his own abilty to take a shot.
You think when manny's telling him to do train a certain way if he didn't feel comfortable with it he'd allow it to continue??? Would you!
Come on man you got to be a fool to allow that.
So again i'd say manny is only a very minor influence, i'd say it's down to him being exposed more as a fighter rather than let's all blame Steward

Actually the Brewster fight was more stamina then chin. If his chin was the issue for that fight shouldn't he have gone down? Have you seen the Nicholson fight? I'm guessing no.

How do you know that? How can you say that Tyson would knock him out? For all you know Booker has the best chin this world has ever seen.
If you really believe that, you're in serious need of a helmet.
As I previously stated, Booker is a bum who fought lesser bums to gain an "undefeated" status.
However, this unskilled, powerless, overweight bum was able to go the full 12 with the same guy many people say deserves credit for being the next great HW.
Give me a ****ing break.

Take a look at Booker's record and look at the records of the guys he beat.
Booker has no chin, it's just that Toney had no power in that match.
Current Tyson could take out Booker easily.
In fact, Booker should be Tyson's "comeback" fight.

So you do what you do just to be a dick. I figured that was the case.

You cant deny Jones talent. Maybe its slipping away but the man has done a lot.
He's also said alot, ducked alot, and wasted alot.
Call me what you will for not being a RJJ ****sucker, but I will stick to my opinions.

I dont agree that he should have looked better. I personally dont think there is much room to look better. He dominated the guy for the full 12 rounds in his first fight coming off an injury. I thought he did a great job and I give him credit.

What kind of comment is that "he hurt himself with a bum"? Comon, even you know thats lame. He hurt himself becuase he hit the poor guy so many god damn times!!!
For a guy who so many get on their knees to blow/praise, he should have looked alot better against that bum Booker.
It took Toney till the 8th round to get Booker to take a knee.
Even after that, Toney couldn't finish off Booker or hurt him anymore than he already did.

As for your second comment.
I think the guys below your post summed it up quite nicely.

If you really believe that, you're in serious need of a helmet.
As I previously stated, Booker is a bum who fought lesser bums to gain an "undefeated" status.
However, this unskilled, powerless, overweight bum was able to go the full 12 with the same guy many people say deserves credit for being the next great HW.
Give me a ****ing break.

Take a look at Booker's record and look at the records of the guys he beat.
Booker has no chin, it's just that Toney had no power in that match.
Current Tyson could take out Booker easily.
In fact, Booker should be Tyson's "comeback" fight.

If he fought bums or not, that doesnt matter to me. Thats irrelevant to what my argument is.
Im not saying Tyson could or could not Ko Booker. I dont say that because no one has knocked him out before. If someone had knocked him out I would have something to compare it to. I guess I dont just jump to conclusions as easily as you do. Maybe Tyson could KO Booker...he has lots of power, but I dont know because they havent fought and Bookers never been KOed. I know Booker took Toneys punched for 12 rds, so he has a pretty good chin.

I dont think its a bad idea for Tyson to fight Booker in his next fight if there is one.

For a guy who so many get on their knees to blow/praise, he should have looked alot better against that bum Booker.
It took Toney till the 8th round to get Booker to take a knee.
Even after that, Toney couldn't finish off Booker or hurt him anymore than he already did.

As for your second comment.
I think the guys below your post summed it up quite nicely.

Damn, I guess Toney just has to come out and KO everyone he fights in the first round. 12 rounds of pure domination after a serious injury isnt good enough for you. You certainly set a high standard.

Im curious of your feelings on Wlad's last fight. what do you think about him?

If he fought bums or not, that doesnt matter to me. Thats irrelevant to what my argument is.
Im not saying Tyson could or could not Ko Booker. I dont say that because no one has knocked him out before. If someone had knocked him out I would have something to compare it to. I guess I dont just jump to conclusions as easily as you do. Maybe Tyson could KO Booker...he has lots of power, but I dont know because they havent fought and Bookers never been KOed. I know Booker took Toneys punched for 12 rds, so he has a pretty good chin.

I dont think its a bad idea for Tyson to fight Booker in his next fight if there is one.
You act as if because of Booker's "undefeated" record and his ability to go 12 rounds with Toney that he has some kind of superman chin.

I stated why he was "undefeated" and we all know Toney had no power in that match.
So that settles why he was able to go the full 12 with Toney.

He has no chin and he will get KTFO if he goes against Tyson.

Damn, I guess Toney just has to come out and KO everyone he fights in the first round. 12 rounds of pure domination after a serious injury isnt good enough for you. You certainly set a high standard.

Im curious of your feelings on Wlad's last fight. what do you think about him?
No, he doesn't have to KO everyone in the first round.
He needs to shut the **** up and actually prove he's near as good as everyone praises him to be.
Give him whatever excuse you want or that he said, but there was no excuse that a guy who so many people verbally fellate should have gone 12 rounds with a fat, unskilled, powerless bum.

Plus, Toney looked tired in the middle of the fight and even after he got Booker to take a knee in the 8th, he couldn't hurt him anymore or take him out.
Which means Toney is average or below average.

I didn't see Wlad's fight so I cannot comment on it.

No, he doesn't have to KO everyone in the first round.
He needs to shut the **** up and actually prove he's near as good as everyone praises him to be.
Give him whatever excuse you want or that he said, but there was no excuse that a guy who so many people verbally fellate should have gone 12 rounds with a fat, unskilled, powerless bum.

Plus, Toney looked tired in the middle of the fight and even after he got Booker to take a knee in the 8th, he couldn't hurt him anymore or take him out.
Which means Toney is average or below average.

I didn't see Wlad's fight so I cannot comment on it.

Well Im giving James some credit becuse I thought he looked good in that fight.

Did you see the Trinidad fight?

Well Im giving James some credit becuse I thought he looked good in that fight.

Did you see the Trinidad fight?
I'll give Toney credit for proving me wrong.
I thought he was going to come in looking like Butterbean and pass out in the first round.

Unfortunately, no.
I saw clips of it on ESPN and am going to watch it this Saturday.
Hopefully it doesn't come on while I'm working.

I'll give Toney credit for proving me wrong.
I thought he was going to come in looking like Butterbean and pass out in the first round.

Unfortunately, no.
I saw clips of it on ESPN and am going to watch it this Saturday.
Hopefully it doesn't come on while I'm working.

Which is just about all the credit he deserves for beating Booker.

Which is just about all the credit he deserves for beating Booker.
Pretty much.

Thanks for the good karma.

Actually the Brewster fight was more stamina then chin. If his chin was the issue for that fight shouldn't he have gone down? Have you seen the Nicholson fight? I'm guessing no.
I thought the Brewster fight was the drugs!!!
I didn't say the chin was the only issue either, his chin is a major factor though because it's weak and explain how he could of been so exhausted after 5 rounds.
My opinion points to the mental issue, he thought it would be a nice easy fight, he's in their in a tough one having to fight hard to get the win and mentally breaks, it's amazing how easily someone will fall when they lack mental strength, especially someone with a dodgy chin.
No I havn't seen the Nicholson fight, by the way I would rate Brewster coming into the fight with Wlad as bad as someone like Nicholson, he has fought better fighters and beaten them eg Botha, Barrett, Byrd etc. Which also makes me question his confidence issue I mentioned in a different post.
I just think he was a legit contender a few years ago but now his faults have been exposed and he won't be able to climb back up, you rate him and I don't it's called a difference of opinion and we'll have to leave it at that

I thought the Brewster fight was the drugs!!!
I didn't say the chin was the only issue either, his chin is a major factor though because it's weak and explain how he could of been so exhausted after 5 rounds.
My opinion points to the mental issue, he thought it would be a nice easy fight, he's in their in a tough one having to fight hard to get the win and mentally breaks, it's amazing how easily someone will fall when they lack mental strength, especially someone with a dodgy chin.
No I havn't seen the Nicholson fight, by the way I would rate Brewster coming into the fight with Wlad as bad as someone like Nicholson, he has fought better fighters and beaten them eg Botha, Barrett, Byrd etc. Which also makes me question his confidence issue I mentioned in a different post.
I just think he was a legit contender a few years ago but now his faults have been exposed and he won't be able to climb back up, you rate him and I don't it's called a difference of opinion and we'll have to leave it at that

My take is, it was his first fight with his new style, which required more movement than he is used to and yet he threw the 2nd most amount of punches next to Mercer which is asking for a disaster.

Yes Nicholson is better than Brewster. Nicholson has only lost to Kirk Johnson, Golota, Tua, and Jeremy Williams. That list is not too shabby, and Nicholson has also beaten John Ruiz.

Haters gonna hate...

haters gonna hate...

^^^^^^^^^^^ *****.

^^^^^^^^^^^ *****.

:lol1::lol1: