I mean, he's proven himself against some of the better fighters in the heavyweight devision. Do you think it's possible he'll join some of the greats? What else does he have to do to prove himself before he joins the ranks of Lewis, Ali, ect?

I mean, he's proven himself against some of the better fighters in the heavyweight devision. Do you think it's possible he'll join some of the greats? What else does he have to do to prove himself before he joins the ranks of Lewis, Ali, ect?

unite the titles and beat all the top fighters of his time, starting with byrd and toney, most of those heavyweight aint even a-class fighters

I thought Toney was just a light heavywieght? And, if Wladamire beats Byrd, then there's no way they'll unify the belts since they'll never fight each other. Although, that'd be the match of a life time.

I thought Toney was just a light heavywieght? And, if Wladamire beats Byrd, then there's no way they'll unify the belts since they'll never fight each other. Although, that'd be the match of a life time.

vitali will kill his glass jaw brother, if he beats some of the best heavyweights and.....to be honest im having secong thaughts no i doubt it sorry...

p.s. its me P4P86

Ahhh. What's up p4p? How many user names do you have? ;) Btw, i managed to finally get that Lewis/Klitschko fight off of boxingtorrent. Freak Lewis got owned.

Ahhh. What's up p4p? How many user names do you have? ;) Btw, i managed to finally get that Lewis/Klitschko fight off of boxingtorrent. Freak Lewis got owned.

i use the fantasy points to change my username, have to root for my country men, and hell no lewis wasnt getting owned, the fight was turning and VK's face was getting worsed, lewis was on his way to either knock him out or win on cards

Vitali has done nothing so far to prove that he is a great heavyweight. Being great also has alot to do with the competition he faces and so far it has been lackluster with the exception of Lewis and to a lesser extent Byrd. While I don't think that many HWs currently have a chance at beating him, that does not speak to him as a great fighter but more to the fact of poor competition. Vitali is not as bad as some say or as good either. He is what he is and has a awkard robotic style that works for him.

Whether or not he can be an all-time is yet to be seen, I have my doubts.

VK's face was getting worsed, lewis was on his way to either knock him out or win on cards

Nahh, i don't really agree with you there. I think VK woulda taken him easily if the fight had gone the distance. Too bad about that cut, but still. VK had him badly. Lewis was looking terrible.

VK's face was getting worsed, lewis was on his way to either knock him out or win on cards

Nahh, i don't really agree with you there. I think VK woulda taken him easily if the fight had gone the distance. Too bad about that cut, but still. VK had him badly. Lewis was looking terrible.

the reason he was looking terrible was because, he was overweight and didnt trained properly, well prepared lewis kicks VK's ass

Had the fight gone on there is a good chance Vitali could have knocked out Lewis. On the other hand those cuts were real bad and if it continued Vitali might have suffered long term injuries.

I think Vitali's needs to beat all the top fighters and collect all the belts he can. I don't think Wladimir winning a belt will make a difference in Vitali's career.

Usually a champions stature is built by the quality of his opponents. Unfortunately for Vitali, his legacy will be determined by the current quality of opponents in the heavyweight division.

This is the same situation that befell Rocky Marciano. Even though Rocky has the greatest record boxing has ever seen in a champion, he isn't considered the best boxer ever because it's believed he had poor quality opponents.
I for one think he was the greatest.

vitali would need to kayo 40 people in a row not get knocked down or out then he could be up there this is only cause theres no one to fight. so about 75 win with 74 kayos with 2 loses that were only caused by a cut and a injurded shoulder and if he never gets knocked down then u can rate him high other then that klitshko fans just cant rank him high at all.

vitali hasnt even really been tested.

we will see how he fares vs sam peter in like a year or 2 when peter is ready for that

If he can rule the division for the next 5 years, beating the top contenders then I reckon he could be considered alongside the greats

i'll have to go with top rank, he should unify all belts first and make some defenses to be one of the greats... bad thing is there's not much class in the heavyweight anymore...

No, his division is the worst ever and his struggles with an old Lewis and men like a fat 38 yr old COrrie Sanders showed he just doesnt have the attributes and boxing skill to be considered a great fighter. Too many flaws in his game.

Get good wins over 3 of the following boxers, and he can be ranked in the top 20 all-time, but it's going to be hard to get him any better than that, unless he really destroys all of them.

1) John Ruiz
2) James Toney
3) Hasim Rahman
4) Samuel Peter
5) Chris Byrd
6) Nicolay Valuev
7) Andrew Golota

The 3 wins have to be by KO, TKO, or convincing UD.

I think he can beat all of those guys Super_Lightweight. The only ones i see actually giving him a hard tiem are James Toney and Samuel Peter. The rest he'll own easily.

I think he can beat all of those guys Super_Lightweight. The only ones i see actually giving him a hard tiem are James Toney and Samuel Peter. The rest he'll own easily.


u pick the 2 peopel vitlai would KO in 2 rounds lmao and say they will give him the toughest time?

Lewis looked terrible because VK made him look that way.

Opposition brings out the champion, and right now VK sits alone at the top. Too bad for him, too bad for us.

Okay, maybe Toney would get rocked, but Samuel Peters would be tough. Just because he's enormus and has some good punching power. I think out of all the current heavywieghts, he's the only one who can really challenge him at this time. Unless, of course, Tyson gets his act together.

Vitali already IS a heavyweight great

vitali would need to kayo 40 people in a row not get knocked down or out then he could be up there this is only cause theres no one to fight. so about 75 win with 74 kayos with 2 loses that were only caused by a cut and a injurded shoulder and if he never gets knocked down then u can rate him high other then that klitshko fans just cant rank him high at all.


LOL KO 40 people in a row? If he did that he would surpass Ali in greatness, and double Joe Louis title defense record.

What makes a heavyweight great or interesting is good arch-rivals, and good stories. Vitali needs someone who can question his claim to the title before he can answer with greatness.

If he had a trilogy with his brother, with them both being champions that would do it.

Okay, maybe Toney would get rocked, but Samuel Peters would be tough. Just because he's enormus and has some good punching power. I think out of all the current heavywieghts, he's the only one who can really challenge him at this time. Unless, of course, Tyson gets his act together.


Peter is too easy to hit, and too unconditioned (read as FAT). His work rate is half the average heavyweight of today. He'd be gone in 3 or less by KO.

Also, in reply to Klitchko/Lewis

Lewis fought his best fight in years, out of shape or not. The fight wasn't turning, it was just evening out a little, with Lewis realising he wasn't in the ring with an easy win, and he knew he had to turn it up, and he did (exactly what Stewart told him to do). Had the cut not happened and the fight continued, it could've gone either way, though I'd have picked Klitchko just because he's several years younger, in better shape, and would've been my pick in a fight that went past 7 or 8.

And even if Lewis got back in shape and came back today (he won't, he's a smart guy), he'd most likely lose. He was on the downhill path from his prime when he fought Klitchko back then....now he's a couple of years older, and even farther past it. If he fought Klitchko today, he'd do nothing but **** up his legacy and embarass himself in the ring against a younger, stronger, faster and more fit opponent. And Klitchko would do nothing for his name by beating an past-his-prime ex champion.

The only thing either of them have to gain from a rematch would be an ass-load of cash, which is reason enough if you need the money, but I don't think either of them do.

Forgot to mention...that was my first post to this forum. If I've violated any local unspoken rules of ettiquite, I'm sure someone will let me know.

LOL KO 40 people in a row? If he did that he would surpass Ali in greatness, and double Joe Louis title defense record.


no he is gonna have to with the level of competiton today think about it

Peter is too easy to hit, and too unconditioned (read as FAT). His work rate is half the average heavyweight of today. He'd be gone in 3 or less by KO.

Also, in reply to Klitchko/Lewis

Lewis fought his best fight in years, out of shape or not. The fight wasn't turning, it was just evening out a little, with Lewis realising he wasn't in the ring with an easy win, and he knew he had to turn it up, and he did (exactly what Stewart told him to do). Had the cut not happened and the fight continued, it could've gone either way, though I'd have picked Klitchko just because he's several years younger, in better shape, and would've been my pick in a fight that went past 7 or 8.

And even if Lewis got back in shape and came back today (he won't, he's a smart guy), he'd most likely lose. He was on the downhill path from his prime when he fought Klitchko back then....now he's a couple of years older, and even farther past it. If he fought Klitchko today, he'd do nothing but **** up his legacy and embarass himself in the ring against a younger, stronger, faster and more fit opponent. And Klitchko would do nothing for his name by beating an past-his-prime ex champion.

The only thing either of them have to gain from a rematch would be an ass-load of cash, which is reason enough if you need the money, but I don't think either of them do.

Forgot to mention...that was my first post to this forum. If I've violated any local unspoken rules of ettiquite, I'm sure someone will let me know.


No, no unspoken rules, just know what the hell your talking about about and put a little effort into your post. Don't spam to get your points up either, this ones was good. Welcome to Boxingscene.

To me it seems to be great, you have to face great competition. Ie. ali/liston, ali/frazier, ali/foreman, holyfield/bowe, holyfield/tyson, holyfield/lewis. You have to have a rival that brings out the best and worst in you. Like what frazier and ali brought out in each other, and to some extent bowe/holyfield. Enormous skill against lackluster competition won't even do it. Tyson had enormous skill at one time, but his competition sucked until he got older and more sidetracked. Then the good competetion just beat him. For that reason, I dont even think he was great. Great potential at one time, but not all time great. If Vitali beat Lewis and Lewis beat him in an exciting rematch, then Vitali beats him in the rubber match; I would say he would be considered great right now. He just needs to find a rival with some decent skill to have a few great fights with.

To prove my point about what makes a great fighter: How many of you think Ward/ Gatti are great fighters now after there three fights.

I mean, he's proven himself against some of the better fighters in the heavyweight devision. Do you think it's possible he'll join some of the greats? What else does he have to do to prove himself before he joins the ranks of Lewis, Ali, ect?No, as the famous quote goes, "He's just tall ... that's all!"

I know his size advatage is a huge part of his sucess as a heavywieght champion, but still there have been other big guys out there that have failed where he's succeded. To me it has to be more than just size that got him to the top. He does need some good competition though. The Heavywieght division is sorly lacking in this department.

True, I was being brief. He's always in top condition and is a naturally gifted athlete. We all know that without top training and/or genetics you just can't excell at the highest levels and he's doing nicely. I ain't trying to belittle his accomplishments or potential for greatness. I honestly think the jury is still out on him as far as tagging him as an all timer.

Then again, you never appreciate the guys while they're toiling along. It's only later that you can really appreciate em. Hell, I freely pay Ruiz props though his style is ugly and he wins by the slimmest of margins.

He does a lot with limited skills. But you can't deny his success.

Get good wins over 3 of the following boxers, and he can be ranked in the top 20 all-time, but it's going to be hard to get him any better than that, unless he really destroys all of them.

1) John Ruiz
2) James Toney
3) Hasim Rahman
4) Samuel Peter
5) Chris Byrd
6) Nicolay Valuev
7) Andrew Golota

The 3 wins have to be by KO, TKO, or convincing UD.
I totally agree with you man. 3 wins over those guys and I will think of him as an all time great.

http://www.curienova.com/znam07valuev.jpg
Guys a monster!

http://www.curienova.com/znam07valuev.jpg
Guys a monster!

Valuev looks like a ****ing caveman! :D

Frankly no.

if lewis returned and VK beats him, then i could (hmmm...) consider him as a great heavyweight...

nah i think klitschko is pretty much screwed atm no one to fight to make him great adn he cant have a rival cause lewis is to old. and nobody can beat him right now so there cant be a 3 fight series

I mean, he's proven himself against some of the better fighters in the heavyweight devision. Do you think it's possible he'll join some of the greats? What else does he have to do to prove himself before he joins the ranks of Lewis, Ali, ect?



I dont think so

I totally agree with you man. 3 wins over those guys and I will think of him as an all time great.

So beating a completly protected Valuev, a washed up Golota (who was never great to begin with), John Ruiz, and Hasim Rahman makes you an all time great?

Get outta here?!?

I mean, he's proven himself against some of the better fighters in the heavyweight devision. Do you think it's possible he'll join some of the greats? What else does he have to do to prove himself before he joins the ranks of Lewis, Ali, ect?

NO way!! He has not proven anything yet..the only great fighter he's faced was Lewis and he lost that one! I cant believe this is even a question right now. :eek:

NO way!! He has not proven anything yet..the only great fighter he's faced was Lewis and he lost that one! I cant believe this is even a question right now. :eek:



against a past prime lewis big K looked great, but, and this is a big butt, lennox is a slow starter, he always looks better in the second half of the fight than the first, excpet agianst Holy in the rematch - lennox coasted in that one. had the fight gone on, it would have ben less Klit and more lennox in each round. remember how the first big right hand lennox landed nearly knocked frankenstein out - it sent him back into the ropes. however, it was the best fight lennox had in a long time and of all the tall great white hopes i've ever seen, frankenstein uses his height the best

against a past prime lewis big K looked great, but, and this is a big butt, lennox is a slow starter, he always looks better in the second half of the fight than the first, excpet agianst Holy in the rematch - lennox coasted in that one. had the fight gone on, it would have ben less Klit and more lennox in each round. remember how the first big right hand lennox landed nearly knocked frankenstein out - it sent him back into the ropes. however, it was the best fight lennox had in a long time and of all the tall great white hopes i've ever seen, frankenstein uses his height the best



u lewis fans blow the fight way outta porption klitschko was leaning back to avoid that right hand thats why he was near the ropes u idiot god.

against a past prime lewis big K looked great, but, and this is a big butt, lennox is a slow starter, he always looks better in the second half of the fight than the first, excpet agianst Holy in the rematch - lennox coasted in that one. had the fight gone on, it would have ben less Klit and more lennox in each round. remember how the first big right hand lennox landed nearly knocked frankenstein out - it sent him back into the ropes. however, it was the best fight lennox had in a long time and of all the tall great white hopes i've ever seen, frankenstein uses his height the best


I see this over and over, and it confuses me. Most big Lewis fans say the same thing..."Lewis was out of shape, that's why he was having a hard time with Klitchko", and also "Lewis was coming on, he's a slow starter and would've KO'd Vitali in another round".

Well, pardon my presumptions, but I'm afraid you can't have your cake and eat it too. Was he "coming on and getting ready to KO Klithcko", or was he out of shape and destined to fade past round 6 or 7? Which is it, if you please?

Look, I can understand your sticking by your man, but there's a point where you have to accept reality. Lewis was a great fighter (note the past tense) and fought an excellant match against Klitchko, and managed to open a big cut and get a stoppage on a TKO. He's not superman, and he can't come into the ring out of shape and hope to come on strong past round 6. That doesn't happen...not for anyone. An out of shape fighter fades in later rounds, water is wet, the sky is blue, etc. Had the cut not happened and the fight continued, it most likely would've ended with Lewis being on the mat a few times before the ref stopped it, especially considering what we've since learned about Klitchko's chin (made from titanium wrapped around a solid granite core, I think).

I like Lewis, and I'm happy with the way the fight went. I also like Klitchko, yet I'm still happy with the way the fight went. In reality, they both came out winners. Lewis because, at the very tail end of his career, he fought better than he had in years, like a true champion, and managed a win against a young and incredibly tough opponent with the ability to bang with the best of them, and who now holds the WBC belt that he himself held onto that night. And Klitchko because, regardless of the outcome, he proved himself a very credible contender, with a helluva chin and a heart the size of a truck. Win/Win situation, for both fighers. And a rematch would've been EXCELLANT, had it happened within 9 months, with Klitchko's cut well healed and Lewis in good shape. It didn't, though, and it's too late now. Lewis was old then, but now he's just too old, and nobody needs (or should want) to see an ex-champ get embarassed in the ring, yet again.

Let it go, boys, let it go :)

I see this over and over, and it confuses me. Most big Lewis fans say the same thing..."Lewis was out of shape, that's why he was having a hard time with Klitchko", and also "Lewis was coming on, he's a slow starter and would've KO'd Vitali in another round".

Well, pardon my presumptions, but I'm afraid you can't have your cake and eat it too. Was he "coming on and getting ready to KO Klithcko", or was he out of shape and destined to fade past round 6 or 7? Which is it, if you please?

Look, I can understand your sticking by your man, but there's a point where you have to accept reality. Lewis was a great fighter (note the past tense) and fought an excellant match against Klitchko, and managed to open a big cut and get a stoppage on a TKO. He's not superman, and he can't come into the ring out of shape and hope to come on strong past round 6. That doesn't happen...not for anyone. An out of shape fighter fades in later rounds, water is wet, the sky is blue, etc. Had the cut not happened and the fight continued, it most likely would've ended with Lewis being on the mat a few times before the ref stopped it, especially considering what we've since learned about Klitchko's chin (made from titanium wrapped around a solid granite core, I think).

I like Lewis, and I'm happy with the way the fight went. I also like Klitchko, yet I'm still happy with the way the fight went. In reality, they both came out winners. Lewis because, at the very tail end of his career, he fought better than he had in years, like a true champion, and managed a win against a young and incredibly tough opponent with the ability to bang with the best of them, and who now holds the WBC belt that he himself held onto that night. And Klitchko because, regardless of the outcome, he proved himself a very credible contender, with a helluva chin and a heart the size of a truck. Win/Win situation, for both fighers. And a rematch would've been EXCELLANT, had it happened within 9 months, with Klitchko's cut well healed and Lewis in good shape. It didn't, though, and it's too late now. Lewis was old then, but now he's just too old, and nobody needs (or should want) to see an ex-champ get embarassed in the ring, yet again.

Let it go, boys, let it go :)


:bowdown: wish there was a smiley for that :(

Great post, Stickman, great post!

He's not superman, and he can't come into the ring out of shape and hope to come on strong past round 6. That doesn't happen...not for anyone.

Both were utterly exhausted by the end, so who knows?

Both were utterly exhausted by the end, so who knows?


leewis collasped into his chair after the 6th no way he coudl wnet 1-2 more rounds

So beating a completly protected Valuev, a washed up Golota (who was never great to begin with), John Ruiz, and Hasim Rahman makes you an all time great?

Get outta here?!?
Yup... He has to do that 1st though.

Marciano is an all time great and he beat an over the hill Louis, Moore and Charles. Would he have beat those guys in their primes? Who knows, you have to work with what you got. Time will tell If Vitali will be a great.

against a past prime lewis big K looked great, but, and this is a big butt, lennox is a slow starter, he always looks better in the second half of the fight than the first, excpet agianst Holy in the rematch - lennox coasted in that one. had the fight gone on, it would have ben less Klit and more lennox in each round. remember how the first big right hand lennox landed nearly knocked frankenstein out - it sent him back into the ropes. however, it was the best fight lennox had in a long time and of all the tall great white hopes i've ever seen, frankenstein uses his height the best

I thought Lewis came in a bit heavy, but as for out of shape I dont think so. I do agree that if the fight had continued Lewis would have finished what that massive right hand started! He may have looked very tired at the end of it all, but he was still hurting Klitschko and I just dont think Vitali could have kept taking that kind of punishment. Thats not knocking Klitschko either...most men cant take those kinds of punches all night long!

I thought Lewis came in a bit heavy, but as for out of shape I dont think so. I do agree that if the fight had continued Lewis would have finished what that massive right hand started! He may have looked very tired at the end of it all, but he was still hurting Klitschko and I just dont think Vitali could have kept taking that kind of punishment. Thats not knocking Klitschko either...most men cant take those kinds of punches all night long!


i never said lennox was out of shape, but he wsn't prime lennox anymore by the klit fight. the bad part for frankenstein is that he landed a lot more punches than lennox did but lewis did far more damage. the klit nutlickers want to lie to themselves that it was a bad stoppage ( even though frankenstein's eye was hanging out ) and that the ref kept frankenstein from knocking lennox out. nah, lewis would have knocked frankenstein out, but probably much later in the fight. Lennox was able to put all of his 250 lbs into his right hand, even with frankenstein's chin i don't see him eating those punches for 12 rounds and ending the fight on his feet

i never said lennox was out of shape, but he wsn't prime lennox anymore by the klit fight. the bad part for frankenstein is that he landed a lot more punches than lennox did but lewis did far more damage. the klit nutlickers want to lie to themselves that it was a bad stoppage ( even though frankenstein's eye was hanging out ) and that the ref kept frankenstein from knocking lennox out. nah, lewis would have knocked frankenstein out, but probably much later in the fight. Lennox was able to put all of his 250 lbs into his right hand, even with frankenstein's chin i don't see him eating those punches for 12 rounds and ending the fight on his feet

OH man I'm sorry..you sure didnt say he was out of shape! My bad :o I agree, that fight had to be stopped..no way around that cause his eye was really messed up! If I were a fan of his I'd want it stopped so that no more damage could be done and he could get it taken care of. If it had continued the wound could and probably would have been much worse, and would have taken much longer to heal. I cant imagine it looking much worse than it already did!!! :eek:

That re-match would have been really nice. Too bad, we arn't going to get it.

I cant imagine it looking much worse than it already did!!! :eek:


yeah, i can't remember ever seeing an uglier cut than that, i thought in one of the close ups when his corner was working on it i could see skull bone

So beating a completly protected Valuev, a washed up Golota (who was never great to begin with), John Ruiz, and Hasim Rahman makes you an all time great?

Get outta here?!?
I see your point.