View Full Version : scale the greats 1-10


Pri/\/\e
06-03-2006, 03:02 PM
scale boxers in these catagories from 1-10 ten being the best: speed power skill defense stamina chin and heart

first off my favorite mahummad ali
speed=10
power=6
skill=8.5
defense=5 not counting his relexes
stamina=9
chin=8.5
heart=9 maybe 8.5 but he sure was tough tho
this man i think is the greatest of all time he just exciting to watch and thats why hes my favorite

then joe louis my second favorite

speed=8.5
power=8.5 maybe 9
skill=10
defense=8
stamina=8
chin=7
heart=8
joe was one of the most complete fighters of all time

next is rocky maricano
speed=4.5
power=10
skill=6
defense=6
stamina=10
chin=8.7
heart=9
i think p4p the hardest hitter ever but what he lacked in skill made of up for it with his power and determination

Mike Tyson
speed=9
power=9
skill=8
defense=7.5
stamina=3 lol
heart=5
tho exciting to watch (probably most exciting boxer to watch of all time) he lacked the boxer mentality and toughness and heart maybe if his prime wasnt cut short he couldve been better

THIS IS MY OPINION!!!!! so feel to create your own scale with different or same boxers

Verstyle
06-03-2006, 03:09 PM
scale boxers in these catagories from 1-10 ten being the best: speed power skill defense stamina chin and heart

first off my favorite mahummad ali
speed=10
power=6
skill=8.5
defense=5 not counting his relexes
stamina=9
chin=8.5
heart=9 maybe 8.5 but he sure was tough tho
this man i think is the greatest of all time he just exciting to watch and thats why hes my favorite

then joe louis my second favorite

speed=8.5
power=8.5 maybe 9
skill=10
defense=8
stamina=8
chin=7
heart=8
joe was one of the most complete fighters of all time

next is rocky maricano
speed=4.5
power=10
skill=6
defense=6
stamina=10
chin=8.7
heart=9
i think p4p the hardest hitter ever but what he lacked in skill made of up for it with his power and determination

Mike Tyson
speed=9
power=9
skill=8
defense=7.5
stamina=3 lol
heart=5
tho exciting to watch (probably most exciting boxer to watch of all time) he lacked the boxer mentality and toughness and heart maybe if his prime wasnt cut short he couldve been better

THIS IS MY OPINION!!!!! so feel to create your own scale with different or same boxers


obviously this cant be prime fighters cause if so i know u would have tyson's stamina alot higher then that maybe 9 cause he never tired with the work rate he did

Pri/\/\e
06-03-2006, 03:19 PM
tyson would only last like 4 rounds after that he was done well u maybe right

Verstyle
06-03-2006, 03:24 PM
tyson would only last like 4 rounds after that he was done well u maybe right


if u think that in his prime your a ****in idiot.he lasted 12rounds throwing non stop in his prime.

Born to Win
06-03-2006, 03:45 PM
if u think that in his prime your a ****in idiot.he lasted 12rounds throwing non stop in his prime.
Prime Tyson's stamina was outstanding. Every punch he threw basically was a power shot, and he could do it for 12 rounds almost non stop, you are right.

Yogi
06-03-2006, 03:46 PM
he lasted 12rounds throwing non stop in his prime.

You yourself might say that, Mystyal, but the compubox numbers from a couple of his twelve round fights suggest that he was doing anything but throwing "non stop" in those fights...26 punches per round versus Smith, and 34 punches per round versus Tucker suggest Tyson had a very low punch rate at heavyweight in his twelve round fights.

But he still had better stamina than what the hread starter is giving him credit for.

Yaman
06-03-2006, 03:46 PM
Yeah, his stamina back then was excelent. He was the hardest working fighter in his prime, he worked harder than Evander Holyfield so a 3 is stupid.

Born to Win
06-03-2006, 03:48 PM
Yeah, his stamina back then was excelent. He was the hardest working fighter in his prime, he worked harder than Evander Holyfield so a 3 is stupid.
I agree.

Those compubox numbers mentioned above might come from the holding Tyson's opponents did.

Verstyle
06-03-2006, 03:52 PM
You yourself might say that, Mystyal, but the compubox numbers from a couple of his twelve round fights suggest that he was doing anything but throwing "non stop" in those fights...26 punches per round versus Smith, and 34 punches per round versus Tucker suggest Tyson had a very low punch rate at heavyweight in his twelve round fights.

But he still had better stamina than what the hread starter is giving him credit for.


when ppl ****in run from u and tie up its difficult to get your punches off. now i know u knew this yogi.think about it u cach the guy when running and u throw 2 punches then a tie up. what happened with the bone crusher fight. and tucker ran like a ***** from him no way u can get your punches of like that.

and for his punch rate he threw bombs on almost all of his punches. in my opinion u will get tired from throwing 30 bombs a round then throwing 100 slap shots a round. plus it was about stamina not punch output. even if he didnt throw that many punches for the obvious reason's he still didnt get tired he jus was only limited to throwing a few shots cause of runners and grabbers. i know exactly what mike went threw with that **** cause it frustrates me when sparring all the time

Yaman
06-03-2006, 03:54 PM
You yourself might say that, Mystyal, but the compubox numbers from a couple of his twelve round fights suggest that he was doing anything but throwing "non stop" in those fights...26 punches per round versus Smith, and 34 punches per round versus Tucker suggest Tyson had a very low punch rate at heavyweight in his twelve round fights.

But he still had better stamina than what the hread starter is giving him credit for.

That doesnt say much about Tysons stamina in the later rounds. Bonehugging Smith kept holding him till the end, but if you look closely, you'll see Tyson was still as fresh as in the 1st round. Bouncing around, moving his head etc. That was just a dull fight. Against Tucker you could see his real stamina. He didnt look any diffirent than the early rounds, when he rocked Tucker in round 10 or 11(Might have to check when that was).

Yogi
06-03-2006, 03:54 PM
Those compubox numbers mentioned above might come from the holding Tyson's opponents did.

The compubox numbers say that Tyson never did come close to throwing "non stop" for tweleve rounds as both Mystyal and you suggested...

Can't go around giving somebody credit for something he never did.

Born to Win
06-03-2006, 03:56 PM
The compubox numbers say that Tyson never did come close to throwing "non stop" for tweleve rounds as both Mystyal and you suggested...

Can't go around giving somebody credit for something he never did.
What do you think about his fights against Ruddock and Tyson's stamina he displayed there? :)

Verstyle
06-03-2006, 03:57 PM
The compubox numbers say that Tyson never did come close to throwing "non stop" for tweleve rounds as both Mystyal and you suggested...

Can't go around giving somebody credit for something he never did.


i hope u knew what we meant by saying non stop as in he never got tired or took a breather or a opponents shoulder.

Yogi
06-03-2006, 03:59 PM
That doesnt say much about Tysons stamina in the later rounds. Bonehugging Smith kept holding him till the end, but if you look closely, you'll see Tyson was still as fresh as in the 1st round. Bouncing around, moving his head etc. That was just a dull fight. Against Tucker you could see his real stamina. He didnt look any diffirent than the early rounds, when he rocked Tucker in round 10 or 11(Might have to check when that was).

It doesn't say much about his stamina, because I didn't mention his stamina in that post, besides my thinking that the thread starter should have given him more credit...

My post was ONLY in disagreement with Mystyal's statement about him throwing "non stop" for twelve rounds, when the twelve round fights he DID have suggest something completely different.

Verstyle
06-03-2006, 04:01 PM
It doesn't say much about his stamina, because I didn't mention his stamina in that post, besides my thinking that the thread starter should have given him more credit...

My post was ONLY in disagreement with Mystyal's statement about him throwing "non stop" for twelve rounds, when the twelve round fights he DID have suggest something completely different.


how come u havnt quoted mine yet?

but ne way when he wasnt held he practically did throw non stop it jus wasnt continuous due to the hugging and running

Yogi
06-03-2006, 04:05 PM
how come u havnt quoted mine yet?

What one...the post where you gave your views as to why he wasn't able to throw as many punches in a twelve round fight?

Verstyle
06-03-2006, 04:06 PM
What one...the post where you gave your views as to why he wasn't able to throw as many punches in a twelve round fight?


this 1.when ppl ****in run from u and tie up its difficult to get your punches off. now i know u knew this yogi.think about it u cach the guy when running and u throw 2 punches then a tie up. what happened with the bone crusher fight. and tucker ran like a ***** from him no way u can get your punches of like that.

and for his punch rate he threw bombs on almost all of his punches. in my opinion u will get tired from throwing 30 bombs a round then throwing 100 slap shots a round. plus it was about stamina not punch output. even if he didnt throw that many punches for the obvious reason's he still didnt get tired he jus was only limited to throwing a few shots cause of runners and grabbers. i know exactly what mike went threw with that **** cause it frustrates me when sparring all the time

Yogi
06-03-2006, 04:19 PM
this 1.when ppl ****in run from u and tie up its difficult to get your punches off. now i know u knew this yogi.think about it u cach the guy when running and u throw 2 punches then a tie up. what happened with the bone crusher fight. and tucker ran like a ***** from him no way u can get your punches of like that.

and for his punch rate he threw bombs on almost all of his punches. in my opinion u will get tired from throwing 30 bombs a round then throwing 100 slap shots a round. plus it was about stamina not punch output. even if he didnt throw that many punches for the obvious reason's he still didnt get tired he jus was only limited to throwing a few shots cause of runners and grabbers. i know exactly what mike went threw with that **** cause it frustrates me when sparring all the time

All this is to me Mystyal is you going back on what you said and trying to give your views (and they're valid enough) as to why Tyson wasn't able to throw "non stop" for tweleve rounds, which would then agree with my own views that he NEVER threw "non stop" for tweleve rounds.

And also, the punch stats from the Smith & Tucker fights don't suggest he was as active with his power punches as you're saying he was...For example, against Tucker he averaged 13 jabs per round (going by the numbers), and if you ask me that was one of the better displays of his jabs that I've seen. That would mean Tyson threw the jab well more than a third of the time against Tucker, and that would leave 21 power punches per round on average in the fight...which again, is by no where near a high number of power punches a round from a heavyweight.

Like I said, my disagreement isn't neccessarily with his stamina so much as it is a disagreement with your comment about him throwing "non stop" for tweleve rounds, which is something you can't give him credit for when he was never able to come close to proving that.

Verstyle
06-03-2006, 04:28 PM
All this is to me Mystyal is you going back on what you said and trying to give your views (and they're valid enough) as to why Tyson wasn't able to throw "non stop" for tweleve rounds, which would then agree with my own views that he NEVER threw "non stop" for tweleve rounds.

And also, the punch stats from the Smith & Tucker fights don't suggest he was as active with his power punches as you're saying he was...For example, against Tucker he averaged 13 jabs per round (going by the numbers), and if you ask me that was one of the better displays of his jabs that I've seen. That would mean Tyson threw the jab well more than a third of the time against Tucker, and that would leave 21 power punches per round on average in the fight...which again, is by no where near a high number of power punches a round from a heavyweight.

Like I said, my disagreement isn't neccessarily with his stamina so much as it is a disagreement with your comment about him throwing "non stop" for tweleve rounds, which is something you can't give him credit for when he was never able to come close to proving that.

with the tucker fight again. how can u connect when ppl r running from him. how many fighter do u see running from there opponents nowadays or before not a whole lot.well i guess with the tucker fight it was a tryin to get in and land some shots match but still he did what he could with the limited tools that tyson had.and i see your average of punches by a hw. but again ppl ran from tyson like a ***** so its sorta unfair in tyson's part. right or wrong?

Da Iceman
06-03-2006, 04:42 PM
obviously this cant be prime fighters cause if so i know u would have tyson's stamina alot higher then that maybe 9 cause he never tired with the work rate he did
tyson vs. tillis. watch.

Brassangel
06-03-2006, 04:45 PM
I would probably give him (Tyson) about a 6-7 for stamina, simply because his longevity wasn't given too many opportunities to develop itself. Blasting people out early shows an incredible workrate, regardless of punch output; although many people on this website will tell you that, because of the punch numbers, he wasn't working hard. That's a load of BS seeing as how he demolished most opponents with fewer punches than those who threw two or three times as many. He put incredible amounts of effort into his workrate, causing the smart opponents to hug, hold, and run in the mid-to-late rounds with the hopes of tiring him out. Since Tyson didn't get too many opportunities to overcome this inevitibility, I will say that he probably slowed later on.

There are a few examples, however, like against Ruddock, where Tyson displayed good stamina.

Some more charts:

Muhammad Ali
speed=10 I think reflexes and fluidity were the big contributers here.
power=6
skill=8 Less orthodox than say, Holmes, but great improvisational skills.
defense=7 While his defense was flawed tactically, he was difficult to hit.
chin=9 Had one of the best ever in his extended career.
heart=8 Tough one; he did want to quit a few times, but always had it when it counted.
stamina=8

Joe Louis
speed=7 Quick, accurate punches, but slow footspeed.
power=8 Power to stun, enough KO when it mattered.
skill=10 Perhaps the most developed boxing mind ever.
defense=8.5 That low left hand keeps this below 9.
chin=7 Got rocked a few times, but solid (vs. Marciano).
heart=9 After 20+ title defenses and he still takes on all comers; most people wouldn't agree with this, but I think he deserves it.
stamina=8

Larry Holmes
speed=9
power=7 Had a zippier jab than Ali.
skill=9
defense=8
chin=8
heart=8
stamina=9

Rocky Marciano
speed=6
power=9.5 Pound for pound it's a 10.
skill=7 Trained harder than anyone, but wasn't too sharp.
defense=7 Got hit a lot.
chin=9 Never got KO'd.
heart=9 Always came back.
stamina=10 Could punch until the cows came home.

George Foreman
speed=7
power=10 Can we put 11?
skill=7.5 Displayed great skill earlier in career.
defense=7 Relied more on offense.
chin=7.5 Took some hefty poundings without scarring.
heart=7 Gave up in first career; this changed later on.
stamina=6.5 Punched himself out pretty early.

Joe Frazier
speed=7
power=9 Most dramatic left hook ever.
skill=9 Very hard worker.
defense=8 Crab defense was tough, but he was half-blind.
chin=9 Only KO'd by Foreman...that says a lot.
heart=10 Again, incredible worker, never gave up.
stamina=10 Fight Night 3 is way off here.

Mike Tyson
speed=9 His hand speed and footspeed have been clocked faster than Ali's. People will flame you if you dare post that this guy ran towards his opponents faster than Ali ran away from them, or that his hands reached their targets quicker, so I will give him a 9.
power=10 Few people had as many impressive shots.
skill=8 Never reached full potential.
defense=9 One of the hardest to hit.
chin=9 20" neck could absorb lots of punishment.
heart=6 He had heart until he won the belts.
stamina=7 Again, never reached full potential.

Evander Holyfield
speed=7
power=7
skill=9 Excellent counterpuncher.
defense=8
chin=8 Could take a suzie or two.
heart=10 He personifies heart.
stamina=9 Pretty tough, even later on in the fight.

This would make for a fun Collectible Card Game, and it would be educational for today's society who doesn't care about boxing anymore. I would even volunteer aiding in the design, research & development, and production of such a game/collectible hobby. This is fun.

Verstyle
06-03-2006, 04:45 PM
tyson vs. tillis. watch.


as probably the biggest tyson fan on here u dont think i've seen that fight a million times :rolleyes: and whats your point :confused:

Da Iceman
06-03-2006, 04:46 PM
Floyd mayweather

speed: 10
power: 7
skill: 9.5
defense: 9.5
stamina: 10
chin: 8.5
heart: ??? only time will tell

overall: 9 for now.

Da Iceman
06-03-2006, 04:46 PM
as probably the biggest tyson fan on here u dont think i've seen that fight a million times :rolleyes: and whats your point :confused:
he was exhausted by the 10th.

Verstyle
06-03-2006, 04:47 PM
he was exhausted by the 10th.


ahahaha. no he wasnt. u yourself need to watch it again.i have that fight in my collection and i see different

Da Iceman
06-03-2006, 04:48 PM
ahahaha. no he wasnt. u yourself need to watch it again.i have that fight in my collection and i see different
i see it alot different. maybe you have poor vision :rolleyes:

Verstyle
06-03-2006, 04:50 PM
i see it alot different. maybe you have poor vision :rolleyes:


no u do. i spend my time studying tyson fights in 85-88. im sure u dont do that. ;)

Da Iceman
06-03-2006, 04:51 PM
no u do. i spend my time studying tyson fights in 85-88. im sure u dont do that. ;)
no i really dont i have better things to do. :cool: like study marciano fights.

Verstyle
06-03-2006, 04:56 PM
no i really dont i have better things to do. :cool: like study marciano fights.


i study to learn. u study tooooooooooooo?? and how can u study such a sloppy fighter

Da Iceman
06-03-2006, 04:59 PM
marciano is better than ya boy tyson.

Yogi
06-03-2006, 05:38 PM
with the tucker fight again. how can u connect when ppl r running from him. how many fighter do u see running from there opponents nowadays or before not a whole lot.well i guess with the tucker fight it was a tryin to get in and land some shots match but still he did what he could with the limited tools that tyson had.and i see your average of punches by a hw. but again ppl ran from tyson like a ***** so its sorta unfair in tyson's part. right or wrong?

No it's unfair to give Tyson credit for a high punchrate in a twelve round fight when he never once showed that he had that quality.

And Tucker fought Tyson similiar to how he fought other fighters...His whole game in every other fight that I've seen from him was to use his footwork, jab, lead staight rights, and fairly quick combinations when his opponent got within mid range, as well as the clinch when a fighter got inside of the range he wanted. That was his game and even though he went more into a survival mode over the last half of the fight, he still didn't deviate much from what got him to that level in the first place. He clinched a good amunt in that fight (most noticable over the last five or so rounds), as did other opponents of Tyson's...but Tyson was always quite willing to accept the clinches himself, and there were enough times when he initiated the clinching with his opponents. He didn't nearly work as hard in there as did other fighters like Frazier, Marciano, etc., who at least made the continuous efforts to punch while their opponents tried clinching them and they RARELY ever accepted the clinch as much as Tyson did.

Verstyle
06-03-2006, 06:13 PM
marciano is better than ya boy tyson.


yeah sure kid :rolleyes: go eat a popsicle

K-DOGG
06-03-2006, 07:37 PM
Okay...here's my take:

Muhammad Ali

speed=10
power=6
skill=8
defense=7
stamina=9
chin=9
heart=10


Joe Louis

speed=8
power=8
skill=10
defense=8
stamina=9
chin=6
heart=10

Rocky Marciano

speed=4
power=10
skill=7
defense=8
stamina=10
chin=9
heart=10

Larry Holmes

speed=9
power=6
skill=10
defense=8
chin= 8
stamina=9
heart=10

Jack Dempsey

speed= 9
power= 8
skill= 8
defense= 8
stamina= 7
heart= 10

Jack Johnson

speed= 8
power=8
skill= 10
stamina=10
chin= 8
heart=8

Joe Frazier

speed= 7
power= 8
skill= 8
stamina= 9
chin= 7
heart= 10



Mike Tyson

speed=10
power=9
skill=8
defense=8
stamina=7
chin= 9
heart=7


Incidentally, I like the "playing cards" idea that Brassangel came up with.

Verstyle
06-03-2006, 07:45 PM
Okay...here's my take:

Muhammad Ali

speed=10
power=6
skill=8
defense=7
stamina=9
chin=9
heart=10


Joe Louis

speed=8
power=8
skill=10
defense=8
stamina=9
chin=6
heart=10

Rocky Marciano

speed=4
power=10
skill=7
defense=8
stamina=10
chin=9
heart=10

Larry Holmes

speed=9
power=6
skill=10
defense=8
chin= 8
stamina=9
heart=10

Jack Dempsey

speed= 9
power= 8
skill= 8
defense= 8
stamina= 7
heart= 10

Jack Johnson

speed= 8
power=8
skill= 10
stamina=10
chin= 8
heart=8

Joe Frazier

speed= 7
power= 8
skill= 8
stamina= 9
chin= 7
heart= 10



Mike Tyson

speed=10
power=9
skill=8
defense=8
stamina=7
chin= 9
heart=7


Incidentally, I like the "playing cards" idea that Brassangel came up with.


u have tyson's perfect

Dempsey 1919
06-03-2006, 08:18 PM
marciano is better than ya boy tyson.

Ahahahahaha!! No he's not! Ahahahahahahahaha!!!

hellfire508
06-05-2006, 05:48 AM
These are all ratings for a heavyweight, obviously. And I assume by speed you mean handspeed? Defense has to include reflexes. Skills can't be measured IMO... but I'll try your system.

Muhammad Ali

Speed = 10
Power = 7
Skill = ? (how can you measure skill)?
Defense = 8.5 (reflexes are defense)
Stamina = 9
Chin = 9
Heart = 10

Joe Louis

Speed = 8.5
Power = 9
Skill = ?
Defense = 8
Stamina = 8.5
Chin = 7
Heart = 8.5

Rocky Maricano

Speed = 5.5
Power = 9
Skill = ?
Defense = 6.5
Stamina = 10
Chin = 9
Heart = 9.5

Mike Tyson

Speed = 9
Power = 9
Skill = ?
Defense = 8
Stamina = 7
Chin = 8.5
Heart = 5.5

Larry Holmes

Speed = 9
Power = 7
Skill = ?
Defense = 8
Chin = 8.5
Stamina = 9
Heart = 9

Jack Dempsey

Speed = 8.5
Power = 9
Skill = ?
Defense = 8
Stamina = 8.5
Chin = 7.5
Heart = 9

Jack Johnson

Speed = 8
Power = 7.5
Skill = ?
Stamina = 9 (Fought more rounds, less workrate).
Chin = 8
Heart = 8

Joe Frazier

Speed = 8
Power = 9
Skill = ?
Stamina = 10
Chin = 8.5
Heart= 10

George Foreman

Speed = 7
Power = 10
Skill = ?
Stamina = 6.5
Chin = 9
Heart = 9.5 (2nd career)

Lennox Lewis

Speed = 7.5
Power = 9.5
Skill = ?
Stamina = 7
Chin = 6.5
Heart = 7

Sonny Liston

Speed = 7.5
Power = 9.5
Skill = ?
Stamina = 8
Chin = 8.5
Heart = 7.5

Evander Holyfield

Speed = 8.5
Power = 7
Skill = ?
Stamina = 9
Chin = 9.5
Heart = 10

Heckler
06-05-2006, 07:48 AM
I would probably give him (Tyson) about a 6-7 for stamina, simply because his longevity wasn't given too many opportunities to develop itself. Blasting people out early shows an incredible workrate, regardless of punch output; although many people on this website will tell you that, because of the punch numbers, he wasn't working hard. That's a load of BS seeing as how he demolished most opponents with fewer punches than those who threw two or three times as many. He put incredible amounts of effort into his workrate, causing the smart opponents to hug, hold, and run in the mid-to-late rounds with the hopes of tiring him out. Since Tyson didn't get too many opportunities to overcome this inevitibility, I will say that he probably slowed later on.

There are a few examples, however, like against Ruddock, where Tyson displayed good stamina.

Some more charts:

Muhammad Ali
speed=10 I think reflexes and fluidity were the big contributers here.
power=6
skill=8 Less orthodox than say, Holmes, but great improvisational skills.
defense=7 While his defense was flawed tactically, he was difficult to hit.
chin=9 Had one of the best ever in his extended career.
heart=8 Tough one; he did want to quit a few times, but always had it when it counted.
stamina=8

Joe Louis
speed=7 Quick, accurate punches, but slow footspeed.
power=8 Power to stun, enough KO when it mattered.
skill=10 Perhaps the most developed boxing mind ever.
defense=8.5 That low left hand keeps this below 9.
chin=7 Got rocked a few times, but solid (vs. Marciano).
heart=9 After 20+ title defenses and he still takes on all comers; most people wouldn't agree with this, but I think he deserves it.
stamina=8

Larry Holmes
speed=9
power=7 Had a zippier jab than Ali.
skill=9
defense=8
chin=8
heart=8
stamina=9

Rocky Marciano
speed=6
power=9.5 Pound for pound it's a 10.
skill=7 Trained harder than anyone, but wasn't too sharp.
defense=7 Got hit a lot.
chin=9 Never got KO'd.
heart=9 Always came back.
stamina=10 Could punch until the cows came home.

George Foreman
speed=7
power=10 Can we put 11?
skill=7.5 Displayed great skill earlier in career.
defense=7 Relied more on offense.
chin=7.5 Took some hefty poundings without scarring.
heart=7 Gave up in first career; this changed later on.
stamina=6.5 Punched himself out pretty early.

Joe Frazier
speed=7
power=9 Most dramatic left hook ever.
skill=9 Very hard worker.
defense=8 Crab defense was tough, but he was half-blind.
chin=9 Only KO'd by Foreman...that says a lot.
heart=10 Again, incredible worker, never gave up.
stamina=10 Fight Night 3 is way off here.

Mike Tyson
speed=9 His hand speed and footspeed have been clocked faster than Ali's. People will flame you if you dare post that this guy ran towards his opponents faster than Ali ran away from them, or that his hands reached their targets quicker, so I will give him a 9.
power=10 Few people had as many impressive shots.
skill=8 Never reached full potential.
defense=9 One of the hardest to hit.
chin=9 20" neck could absorb lots of punishment.
heart=6 He had heart until he won the belts.
stamina=7 Again, never reached full potential.

Evander Holyfield
speed=7
power=7
skill=9 Excellent counterpuncher.
defense=8
chin=8 Could take a suzie or two.
heart=10 He personifies heart.
stamina=9 Pretty tough, even later on in the fight.

This would make for a fun Collectible Card Game, and it would be educational for today's society who doesn't care about boxing anymore. I would even volunteer aiding in the design, research & development, and production of such a game/collectible hobby. This is fun.

I think you have done a good job with most of your ratings. First Issue... Frazier with equal handspeed to Foreman? He clearly had significantly faster hands then Foreman, Foreman should be on par with Marciano. Ali with heart at 8? Look at the adversity he faced... Having the nuts to sit on the ropes and play heavybag with the most fearsome champion of all time, going back out against Liston, getting up from that left hook in FOTC even though he had clearly lost the fight, taking huge punishment from Earnie Shavers for 15 rounds, lasting the thrilla in manila, taking round after round of a beating from Larry Holmes.

Theres a difference between contemplating quitting and quitting. Ali did contemplate quitting a couple of times in his career but never and this contemplation only occured in extreme circumstances. In the end he dug deep and went out there and got the job done. He could of flat out refused to go out like Liston or refused to continue like duran against leonard... but the fact of the matter is he didn't.

Ali's technical ability is overrated, his defense is overrated, even his speed by some fanatics, but his heart is one of his greatest qualities.. it allowed him to triumph where most would fold and stay competitive in the ring long after his skills and physical assets erroded. Did any of these other fighters mentioned face and persevere with the same level of adversity throughout their career as Ali? Absorb the same kind of punishment and keep on going? Joe Frazier who hates Ali's and rarely utters a positive word about him commended him on one thing.... his heart.

Mike Tyson has been clocked to have faster handspeed then Ali? Mike Tyson at his fastest had faster hands then Ali at his fastest? I have the Tyson career DVD set, have thoroughly watched all his fights and have never seen him display the kind of speed Ali displayed against say Brian London, Zora Folley, Sonny Liston?. Have you got a link to something regarding Tyson's handspeed being clocked faster then Ali's? It's possible but im skeptical because it not only contradicts what my eyes have percieved but also the general concensus among historians. Mike Tyson did at times move forward faster then Ali moved back... this wasn't always and advantage because he was often caught with a right hand when rushing in.

Yaman
06-05-2006, 08:14 AM
I think you have done a good job with most of your ratings. First Issue... Frazier with equal handspeed to Foreman? He clearly had significantly faster hands then Foreman, Foreman should be on par with Marciano. Ali with heart at 8? Look at the adversity he faced... Having the nuts to sit on the ropes and play heavybag with the most fearsome champion of all time, going back out against Liston, getting up from that left hook in FOTC even though he had clearly lost the fight, taking huge punishment from Earnie Shavers for 15 rounds, lasting the thrilla in manila, taking round after round of a beating from Larry Holmes.

Theres a difference between contemplating quitting and quitting. Ali did contemplate quitting a couple of times in his career but never and this contemplation only occured in extreme circumstances. In the end he dug deep and went out there and got the job done. He could of flat out refused to go out like Liston or refused to continue like duran against leonard... but the fact of the matter is he didn't.

Ali's technical ability is overrated, his defense is overrated, even his speed by some fanatics, but his heart is one of his greatest qualities.. it allowed him to triumph where most would fold and stay competitive in the ring long after his skills and physical assets erroded. Did any of these other fighters mentioned face and persevere with the same level of adversity throughout their career as Ali? Absorb the same kind of punishment and keep on going? Joe Frazier who hates Ali's and rarely utters a positive word about him commended him on one thing.... his heart.

Mike Tyson has been clocked to have faster handspeed then Ali? Mike Tyson at his fastest had faster hands then Ali at his fastest? I have the Tyson career DVD set, have thoroughly watched all his fights and have never seen him display the kind of speed Ali displayed against say Brian London, Zora Folley, Sonny Liston?. Have you got a link to something regarding Tyson's handspeed being clocked faster then Ali's? It's possible but im skeptical because it not only contradicts what my eyes have percieved but also the general concensus among historians. Mike Tyson did at times move forward faster then Ali moved back... this wasn't always and advantage because he was often caught with a right hand when rushing in.

If thats what you think is heart, then you gotta put Tyson's heart higher aswell cause the guy never quit in his losses either(except at the very end of his career where his trainer didnt want him to go out there, and where he had enough of boxing). From what i understand, Ali has been in situations where he could've died in the ring, and still kept going on. Same as Tyson against Lewis, he took a ****load of punishment and he could've died, but he didn't quit either. So he should have heart higher aswell.

P4P i believe Tyson had faster hands than Ali. But yeah, Ali did have faster hands. I guess Brass put Tyson's higher is because Tyson's handspeed was more effective than Ali because of the power he had with the speed.

But good topic anyway, im gonna make one myself.

Yaman
06-05-2006, 08:31 AM
Muhammad Ali

Speed = 10
Power = 6,5 (fought on his toes, never showed signs of a power puncher)
Skill = 7 (not that skilled but that can easily forgotten by his other qualities)
Defense = 8
Stamina = 9
Chin = 9,5
Heart = 9,5

Joe Louis

Speed = 8.5
Power = 10
Skill = 9,5
Defense = 8
Stamina = 8
Chin = 6,5 (Knocked dow a lot of times. Wobbled by punches from punchers who didnt hit that hard)
Heart = 8,5

Rocky Maricano

Speed = 6,5
Power = 10
Skill = 7 (underrated skills, such as his defence)
Defense = 7
Stamina = 10
Chin = 9
Heart = 10

Mike Tyson

Speed = 9,5
Power = 10
Skill = 8,5
Defense = 8,5
Stamina = 7,5
Chin = 8.5
Heart = 7,5

Larry Holmes

Speed = 8,5
Power = 7
Skill = 8,5
Defense = 8
Chin = 8.5
Stamina = 9
Heart = 9,5 (Took a right from hell, and came back to win)

Jack Dempsey

Speed = 8,5
Power = 10
Skill = 8
Defense = 8
Stamina = 7,5
Chin = 7.5
Heart = 9


Joe Frazier

Speed = 8
Power = 9,5
Skill = 8,5 (Very skilled fighter, especially on the inside)
Stamina = 10
Chin = 8.5
Heart= 10

George Foreman

Speed = 7
Power = 10
Skill = 7
Stamina = 7
Chin = 8,5
Heart = 9,5 (probably after Ali, he'd rather die in the ring than quit or get counted out)

Lennox Lewis

Speed = 7.5
Power = 9.5 (His right hand is a 10, but overall, he doesnt have power like the other greats)
Skill = 8,5
Stamina = 7,5
Chin = 7
Heart = 7

Sonny Liston

Speed = 7.5
Power = 10
Skill = 8
Stamina = 8
Chin = 6,5 (ko'd by a punch that didn't look like powerfull)
Heart = 6

Evander Holyfield

Speed = 8
Power = 8
Skill = 8,5
Stamina = 9
Chin = 9.5
Heart = 10

Thats about it. Maybe you dont agree, i'd be glad to hear why.

Heckler
06-05-2006, 08:32 AM
Mike Tyson

Power - 10
Speed - 10
Skill - 8
Chin - 9
Defense - 9
Stamina - 7
Heart - 7

In terms of physical assets he is nothing short of amazing.

Muhammad Ali

Power - 7
Speed - 10
Heart - 10
Skill - 8
Chin - 10
Defense - 6
Stamina - 9

Rocky Marciano

Power - 10
Speed - 6
Skill - 6
Heart - 10
Chin - 9
Defense - 7
Stamina - 10

Joe Frazier

Power - 9
Speed - 8
Heart - 10
Skill - 7
Chin - 8
Defense - 8
Stamina - 10

Joe Louis

Power - 10
Speed - 9
Skill - 9
Heart - 9
Chin - 7
Defense - 9 (had a tendancy to drop that left hand)
Stamina - 8

George Foreman

Power - 10
Speed - 6
Skill - 5 (
Heart - 7
Defense - 6
Stamina - 7

King Koyle
06-05-2006, 10:31 AM
People can speculate all they want on who would have won,Rocky or Tyson.We will never know.But history does look on Rocky as a better fighter than Tyson.It's a fact!

King Koyle
06-05-2006, 10:58 AM
Muhammad Ali

Power-6
Speed-10
Skill-9
Chin-9
Defense-8
Stamina-9
Heart-10

Mike Tyson

Power-10
Speed-9
Skill-8
Chin-8
Defense-8
Stamina-7
Heart-6

Rocky Marciano

Power-9
Speed-5
Skill-5
Chin-9
Defense-6
Stamina-10
Heart-10

Joe Louis

Power-10
Speed-8
Skill-8
Chin-8
Defense-7
Stamina-9
Heart-10

George Foreman

Power-10
Speed-5
Skill-6
Chin-7
Defense-6
Stamina-8
Heart-8

Yogi
06-05-2006, 11:22 AM
Mike Tyson;

Power-6
Speed-6.5
Skill-5.5
Chin-5
Defense-5
Stamina-4
Heart-3

Verstyle
06-05-2006, 11:32 AM
Mike Tyson;

Power-6
Speed-6.5
Skill-5.5
Chin-5
Defense-5
Stamina-4
Heart-3


oh thats waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay wrong. i think thats your dislike of tyson speaking.power a 6? speed a 6.5? hell all of it

Yogi
06-05-2006, 11:53 AM
**** Spinks;

Power-5
Speed-6
Skill-4.5
Chin-4.5
Defense-5
Stamina-6.5
Heart-7

Yogi
06-05-2006, 11:56 AM
L-e-o-n is a word/name that's needed to be censored?

I don't get it. :confused:

Yaman
06-05-2006, 12:36 PM
L-e-o-n is a word/name that's needed to be censored?

I don't get it. :confused:

You're not funny at all actually. No matter how hard you try, you dont have it in you.

SABBATH
06-05-2006, 12:51 PM
You're not funny at all actually. No matter how hard you try, you dont have it in you.L e o n Spinks would have been the greatest heavyweight of all time if he had kept George Benton as his trainer. When Benton left him L e o n's head movement his jab, his combinations and his training habits all but disappeared.

When Spinks lost the title to Ali it was because he was partying too much in New Orleans and hardly trained. He lost the focus and dedication that had made him champion. His corner for that fight was a mess. L e o n was also past his prime at 24 years old.

After losing his title Spinks didn't care anymore. Marital troubles, managerial and promotional troubles plus the arrest and conviction for cocaine possesion.

If only he had stayed with Benton...how great would he have been? We'll never know....;)

Brassangel
06-05-2006, 01:01 PM
Originally posted by K-DOGG
Incidentally, I like the "playing cards" idea that Brassangel came up with.


This could be lots of fun. There could be "situation" cards which stay in play, like certain stadium venues, or "the 12th round" which would have a negative effect on some fighter's statistics, etc. Certain matchups might create fear, overconfidence, or "the zone" for one or both fighters...I guess the geek in me is really beginning to flourish here.

Anyway, I figured I would get flamed for my statistical posts. When giving Foreman similar hand speed to Frazier, it wasn't a career spanning thing, but rather, a gift to Foreman based on an analysis of his early career when he actually used the jab and awkward angles to strike his opponents. For those first few rounds, his hands moved pretty quick for a big man, it's his stamina that got the best of him, which I felt was reflected in his stats. Frazier's stamina would allow him to maintain nearly the same speed he begins a fight with.

When I gave Tyson's speed a nod in the description, simply because Ali's speed was sometimes virtual. Throwing a quick left-right to interrupt an opponent's punch can sometimes create the illusion of lightning quickness. That was his reflexes moreso than raw punch speed. Tyson would throw bombs, and while the opponent could see it coming, it didn't matter. It still got in there fast enough to do the job. It's like a pitcher who throws fast, but changes it up to confuse a batter, versus a guy who can throw 100 miles an hour and simply blow it by the plate. The sweet science often needs an analogy to be understood in it's purest form...as strange as that sounds.

Tyson's forward rush didn't usually meet right hands in the prime of his career, as he was very difficult to hit which in turn, allowed him to move inside. As he started destroying the alleged champions and caring less (and his heart rating would be much lower by this point), he did move forward into some right hands.

While some historians may disagree with the above two paragraphs, there are plenty of fallacies created/fed by historians. For example, the Great Pyramind at Giza has no known record of origin. But because a 4-inch tall statue of some guy was found 50 miles south in a buried city, archeologists have attached a name to this character and assumed (thanks to 99% flawed dating systems) that he must be the one who ordered it's construction. This myth has therefore been placed in the textbooks, and that's what high school, college, and professional scientists are told to accept. If something gets spoken enough, like the words, "I am the fastest thing on two feet!" society is willing to repeat them, like the words to a catchy pop song, until they become accepted as truth. One has to conduct the often controversial experiments on one's own time to discover the subtle realities behind a few things.

This does not mean, however, that Mike Tyson was faster than Muhammad Ali on every level. It does raise many questions, at least in my mind, when I observe the first Clay vs. Liston match, where Clay was clearly at his slipperiest (perhaps not as "great" of a fighter as he would become 2-3 years later). An old, unprepared Liston was often on top of Clay, even though his punches were missing; usually by no more than a graze, or a split second. Tyson, who was much quicker and more aggressive than Liston, would make up for that split second and his speed would be visible against the very man whom we are currently debating. Clay never again moved around the ring against another oppnent quite like he did in that match where he was frightened, but youthful and full of energy. His hands and brain would develop as time went on, but I think it's an obersvation worthy of questioning in terms of the speed relation I'm exampling.

This has gone back to my Ali vs. Tyson, out on a fragile limb thread... :hijacked:

Yes, cards would be fun.

SABBATH
06-05-2006, 01:07 PM
An old, unprepared Liston was often on top of Clay, even though his punches were missing; usually by no more than a graze, or a split second. Tyson, who was much quicker and more aggressive than Liston, would make up for that split second and his speed would be visible against the very man whom we are currently debating. .
Consequently, the 71 inch reach Tyson's punches would be falling shorter and missing by a greater margin than the 84 inch reach Liston's...

Yogi
06-05-2006, 01:23 PM
You're not funny at all actually. No matter how hard you try, you dont have it in you.

And you think I was trying to be funny with my wondering why a name like L-e-o-n would be censured?

Kid Achilles
06-05-2006, 01:24 PM
Thanks Sabbath, you beat me to it.

Verstyle
06-05-2006, 01:24 PM
And you think I was trying to be funny with my wondering why a name like L-e-o-n would be censured?


i think he's talkin about how u got **** so close to tyson. which is a complete joke

Yaman
06-05-2006, 02:08 PM
And you think I was trying to be funny with my wondering why a name like L-e-o-n would be censured?

Probably gyeah. You try so hard to make a joke and fail miserably. Its quite sad and stupid actually. Just like your friend Jack.



Anyway, how about doing some of these stats for non heavyweights?

Dempsey 1919
06-05-2006, 02:12 PM
Muhammad Ali

Speed = 10
Power = 7
Skill = 10
Defense = 8
Stamina = 10
Chin = 10
Heart = 10

Sonny Liston

Speed = 8
Power = 10
Skill = 9
Defense = 8
Stamina = 8
Chin = 9
Heart = 8.5

George Foreman

Speed = 6.5
Power = 10
Skill = 7
Defense = 7
Stamina = 7
Chin = 10
Heart = 9

Mike Tyson

Speed = 10
Power = 10
Skill = 9
Defense = 10
Stamina = 7
Chin = 9
Heart = 7

Joe Louis

Speed = 8
Power = 10
Skill = 10
Defense = 10
Stamina = 9
Chin = 7
Heart = 9

Larry Holmes

Speed = 9
Power = 7
Skill = 10
Defense = 9
Stamina = 9
Chin = 10
Heart = 10

Joe Frazier

Speed = 7
Power = 10
Skill = 7
Defense = 6
Stamina = 10
Chin = 9
Heart= 10

Jack Dempsey

Speed = 7
Power = 10
Skill = 8
Defense = 7
Stamina = 6
Chin = 8
Heart = 10

Jack Johnson

Speed = 8
Power = 9
Skill = 9
Defense = 10
Stamina = 10
Chin = 5
Heart = 7

Lennox Lewis

Speed = 7
Power = 10
Skill = 8
Defense = 7
Stamina = 8
Chin = 7
Heart = 8

Evander Holyfield

Speed = 8
Power = 7
Skill = 9
Defense = 8
Stamina = 8
Chin = 10
Heart = 10

Rocky Maricano

Speed = 4.5
Power = 10
Skill = 6
Defense = 5
Stamina = 10
Chin = 8
Heart = 10

Riddick Bowe

Speed = 6
Power = 10
Skill = 7
Defense = 6
Stamina = 7
Chin = 9
Heart = 8

Floyd Patterson

Speed = 10
Power = 8
Skill = 9
Defense = 8
Stamina = 8
Chin = 5
Heart = 9

Nikolay Valuev :D

Speed = 3
Power = 9
Skill = 3
Defense = 2
Stamina = 6
Chin = 8
Heart = ?

Yogi
06-05-2006, 02:14 PM
Anyway, how about doing some of these stats for non heavyweights?

Who would you like to see done, Yaman?

Verstyle
06-05-2006, 02:14 PM
Muhammad Ali

Speed = 10
Power = 7
Skill = 10
Defense = 8
Stamina = 10
Chin = 10
Heart = 10

Sonny Liston

Speed = 8
Power = 10
Skill = 9
Stamina = 8
Chin = 9
Heart = 8.5

George Foreman

Speed = 6.5
Power = 10
Skill = 7
Stamina = 7
Chin = 10
Heart = 9

Mike Tyson

Speed = 10
Power = 10
Skill = 9
Defense = 10
Stamina = 7
Chin = 9
Heart = 7

Joe Louis

Speed = 8
Power = 10
Skill = 10
Defense = 10
Stamina = 9
Chin = 7
Heart = 9

Larry Holmes

Speed = 9
Power = 7
Skill = 10
Defense = 9
Stamina = 9
Chin = 10
Heart = 10

Joe Frazier

Speed = 7
Power = 10
Skill = 7
Stamina = 10
Chin = 9
Heart= 10

Jack Dempsey

Speed = 7
Power = 10
Skill = 8
Defense = 7
Stamina = 6
Chin = 8
Heart = 10

Jack Johnson

Speed = 8
Power = 9
Skill = 9
Defense = 10
Stamina = 10
Chin = 5
Heart = 7

Lennox Lewis

Speed = 7
Power = 10
Skill = 8
Stamina = 8
Chin = 7
Heart = 8

Evander Holyfield

Speed = 8
Power = 7
Skill = 9
Stamina = 8
Chin = 10
Heart = 10

Rocky Maricano

Speed = 4.5
Power = 10
Skill = 6
Defense = 5
Stamina = 10
Chin = 8
Heart = 10

Riddick Bowe

Speed = 6
Power = 10
Skill = 7
Defense = 6
Stamina = 7
Chin = 9
Heart = 8

Floyd Patterson

Speed = 10
Power = 8
Skill = 9
Defense = 8
Stamina = 8
Chin = 5
Heart = 9

Nikolay Valuev :D

Speed = 3
Power = 9
Skill = 3
Defense = 2
Stamina = 6
Chin = 8
Heart = ?


i think u typed the wrong number in there

rocco1252
06-05-2006, 02:18 PM
marciano is better than ya boy tyson.
AGREED, TYSON IS OVER RATED

Dempsey 1919
06-05-2006, 02:18 PM
i think u typed the wrong number in there

He's 7'0 and 320, so he's got to have something.

Verstyle
06-05-2006, 02:20 PM
AGREED, TYSON IS OVER RATED


how so cause he got his ass kicked when he was outta his prime :rolleyes:

Verstyle
06-05-2006, 02:20 PM
He's 7'0 and 320, so he's got to have something.


u put his power up there with tyson,foreman,rocky. no ****in way

rocco1252
06-05-2006, 02:23 PM
Muhammad Ali

Speed = 10
Power = 7
Skill = 10
Defense = 8
Stamina = 10
Chin = 10
Heart = 10

Sonny Liston

Speed = 8
Power = 10
Skill = 9
Stamina = 8
Chin = 9
Heart = 8.5

George Foreman

Speed = 6.5
Power = 10
Skill = 7
Stamina = 7
Chin = 10
Heart = 9

Mike Tyson

Speed = 10
Power = 10
Skill = 9
Defense = 10
Stamina = 7
Chin = 9
Heart = 7

Joe Louis

Speed = 8
Power = 10
Skill = 10
Defense = 10
Stamina = 9
Chin = 7
Heart = 9

Larry Holmes

Speed = 9
Power = 7
Skill = 10
Defense = 9
Stamina = 9
Chin = 10
Heart = 10

Joe Frazier

Speed = 7
Power = 10
Skill = 7
Stamina = 10
Chin = 9
Heart= 10

Jack Dempsey

Speed = 7
Power = 10
Skill = 8
Defense = 7
Stamina = 6
Chin = 8
Heart = 10

Jack Johnson

Speed = 8
Power = 9
Skill = 9
Defense = 10
Stamina = 10
Chin = 5
Heart = 7

Lennox Lewis

Speed = 7
Power = 10
Skill = 8
Stamina = 8
Chin = 7
Heart = 8

Evander Holyfield

Speed = 8
Power = 7
Skill = 9
Stamina = 8
Chin = 10
Heart = 10

Rocky Maricano

Speed = 4.5
Power = 10
Skill = 6
Defense = 5
Stamina = 10
Chin = 8
Heart = 10

Riddick Bowe

Speed = 6
Power = 10
Skill = 7
Defense = 6
Stamina = 7
Chin = 9
Heart = 8

Floyd Patterson

Speed = 10
Power = 8
Skill = 9
Defense = 8
Stamina = 8
Chin = 5
Heart = 9

Nikolay Valuev :D

Speed = 3
Power = 9
Skill = 3
Defense = 2
Stamina = 6
Chin = 8
Heart = ?
Considering Tyson and Patterson were said to be faster than Ali wouldnt that make Ali a 9?

Yaman
06-05-2006, 02:25 PM
Who would you like to see done, Yaman?


How about Sam Langford, Max Schmeling and Marvin Hagler?

rocco1252
06-05-2006, 02:32 PM
how so cause he got his ass kicked when he was outta his prime :rolleyes:
Because people on this site make him out to be a God when infact he was just a tough sob that people were afraid of and once he found someone who wasnt afraid he became afraid and lost his heart and didnt know what to do. He threw bombs and that was it he was able to move his head without getting hit, he was good but if he fought more top tier opposition he would have had even more losses. He never impressed me once growing up watching boxing, nothing like when I watched the greats duel it out like Frazier and Ali and fights like Gatti vs. Ward, Tyson had no heart therefore I dont understand when everyone would even consider him a great, a great is someone who will overcome the problems, correct them, challenge himself and come out victorious. He was a short lived Champion that was over hyped his whole career.

Yogi
06-05-2006, 02:33 PM
How about Sam Langford, Max Schmeling and Marvin Hagler?

Sure, and I'll do them in the contexts of a p4p type rating;

Sam Langford;

Speed-8.5
Power-10
Skill-9.5
Defense-8
Stamina-9.5
Chin-10
Heart-9 (he had a couple stoppage losses due to corner retirement)


Max Schmeling;

Speed-7.5
Power-8.5
Skill-8
Defense-8
Stamina-8 (bumped up, as he came on strong versus Sharkey in rematch)
Chin-7
Heart-9


Marvin Hagler;

Speed-9
Power-8.5
Skill-9.5
Defense-8.5
Stamina-9
Chin-10
Heart-9.5


Something like that.

Dempsey 1919
06-05-2006, 02:49 PM
u put his power up there with tyson,foreman,rocky. no ****in way

I put tyson, foreman, and rocky at 10, and valuev is at 9. :confused:

Dempsey 1919
06-05-2006, 02:50 PM
Considering Tyson and Patterson were said to be faster than Ali wouldnt that make Ali a 9?

We all know ali had the fastest hands in Heavyweight history. :rolleyes:

Yogi
06-05-2006, 02:52 PM
I put tyson, foreman, and rocky at 10, and valuev is at 9. :confused:

Before giving him that high of a rating, at least let Valuev prove himself capable of knocking out someone of more quality that Ettiene or Beck, who are quite a ways off from being known for their ability to take a punch.

Yaman
06-05-2006, 02:55 PM
Sure, and I'll do them in the contexts of a p4p type rating;

Sam Langford;

Speed-8.5
Power-10
Skill-9.5
Defense-8
Stamina-9.5
Chin-10
Heart-9 (he had a couple stoppage losses due to corner retirement)


Max Schmeling;

Speed-7.5
Power-8.5
Skill-8
Defense-8
Stamina-8 (bumped up, as he came on strong versus Sharkey in rematch)
Chin-7
Heart-9


Marvin Hagler;

Speed-9
Power-8.5
Skill-9.5
Defense-8.5
Stamina-9
Chin-10
Heart-9.5


Something like that.

Yeah thats about right. langford and Hagler were granite.

Brassangel
06-05-2006, 06:18 PM
Liston's reach advantage over Tyson is made up on the ground. Tyson spent most of his time in his opponent's chest. 71" is merely leverage when you're fast enough to get there. That's the point I was hoping to cover in my long explanation. However, my efforts are often bypassed, and the points ignored in favor of one incomplete line that a few people run with. It's the whole, hear what we want to syndrome...college, writing courses, communications skills, 15 years of boxing study and analysis...yaaaaar.

Kid Achilles
06-05-2006, 07:25 PM
Tyson never did much damage when he was on his opponents chest, more often than not he was engaged in a clinch when he was at such a range. Tyson did most of his damage at mid range. In fact, you'd often see him stepping back to give himself more space to throw during a combination. Tyson was not one of those guys (ie Dempsey, Louis) who could do serious damage inside, in spite of his physicality.

In fact, Tyson's apparent discomfort with extreme close quarter combat is one of the reasons I'd give a Dempsey or Frazier (or even a durable, tough as nails inside counter puncher like Jerry Quarry) such a good chance against him. For a small heavyweight, he was not the trench warfare expert he should have been. Fortunately for him, he came around at a time when infighting was all but a dead art in heavyweight boxing.

K-DOGG
06-05-2006, 07:28 PM
Tyson never did much damage when he was on his opponents chest, more often than not he was engaged in a clinch when he was at such a range. Tyson did most of his damage at mid range. In fact, you'd often see him stepping back to give himself more space to throw during a combination. Tyson was not one of those guys (ie Dempsey, Louis) who could do serious damage inside, in spite of his physicality.

In fact, Tyson's apparent discomfort with extreme close quarter combat is one of the reasons I'd give a Dempsey or Frazier (or even a durable, tough as nails inside counter puncher like Jerry Quarry) such a good chance against him. For a small heavyweight, he was not the trench warfare expert he should have been. Fortunately for him, he came around at a time when infighting was all but a dead art in heavyweight boxing.


Very True....Good Post.

Verstyle
06-05-2006, 07:35 PM
Because people on this site make him out to be a God when infact he was just a tough sob that people were afraid of and once he found someone who wasnt afraid he became afraid and lost his heart and didnt know what to do. He threw bombs and that was it he was able to move his head without getting hit, he was good but if he fought more top tier opposition he would have had even more losses. He never impressed me once growing up watching boxing, nothing like when I watched the greats duel it out like Frazier and Ali and fights like Gatti vs. Ward, Tyson had no heart therefore I dont understand when everyone would even consider him a great, a great is someone who will overcome the problems, correct them, challenge himself and come out victorious. He was a short lived Champion that was over hyped his whole career.


i think most ppl that dislike tyson on here go back to his 95 and above days cause there the most recent.if u sit and watch a prime tyson as much as i do u may change your out look on him.defense was superb,speed,footspeed,chin all of that was good so how is he overrated when he got his loses after his prime?yes tyson vs. holfield and lennox was fair but was williams and mcbride? hell no

Verstyle
06-05-2006, 07:38 PM
Tyson never did much damage when he was on his opponents chest, more often than not he was engaged in a clinch when he was at such a range. Tyson did most of his damage at mid range. In fact, you'd often see him stepping back to give himself more space to throw during a combination. Tyson was not one of those guys (ie Dempsey, Louis) who could do serious damage inside, in spite of his physicality.

In fact, Tyson's apparent discomfort with extreme close quarter combat is one of the reasons I'd give a Dempsey or Frazier (or even a durable, tough as nails inside counter puncher like Jerry Quarry) such a good chance against him. For a small heavyweight, he was not the trench warfare expert he should have been. Fortunately for him, he came around at a time when infighting was all but a dead art in heavyweight boxing.


this i agree on. even i see this alot. he does decide to go into the clench willingly.he had enough compact power to do damage in the inside but he doesnt(by the way i work the inside :D )

realheavyhands
06-05-2006, 07:40 PM
Tyson never did much damage when he was on his opponents chest, more often than not he was engaged in a clinch when he was at such a range. Tyson did most of his damage at mid range. In fact, you'd often see him stepping back to give himself more space to throw during a combination. Tyson was not one of those guys (ie Dempsey, Louis) who could do serious damage inside, in spite of his physicality.

In fact, Tyson's apparent discomfort with extreme close quarter combat is one of the reasons I'd give a Dempsey or Frazier (or even a durable, tough as nails inside counter puncher like Jerry Quarry) such a good chance against him. For a small heavyweight, he was not the trench warfare expert he should have been. Fortunately for him, he came around at a time when infighting was all but a dead art in heavyweight boxing. if they were the same size but tyson is just to damn big for any of them

Brassangel
06-05-2006, 07:58 PM
He did crowd his opponents though. Anyone saying he didn't do it like Dempsey, or Frazier, is probably accurate. He did it like Tyson. He got right up in their chest, threw a shot or two to the body, and forced them to cover up. Afterwards, he found an awkward angle to fire away a combination from "mid" range as you have stated; though with a 71" reach, it was certainly close range by most normal people's standards. He had to quarter off the distance before establishing his comfortable punching range. Against Ali, that tactic, plus his speed, may have been the difference for a guy like Liston.

To seriously think that he didn't get right up in his opponent's chest...that was usually the first comments out of the mouth of a commentator when one of his fights got started. "Watch this young man get right in there on his opponent..," and, "Mike is getting right into Holmes's space, showing little respect for Larry's inside abilities..," also "Tyson will likely come right into Michael Spinks' chest..." I guess multitasking isn't common amidst the boxing fans. Listening as well as watching must be a lost art... :rolleyes: These were merely a few examples of what was basically stated in every fight he ever fought. In all but a very select few, he usually followed through.

Back to the main topic:

Peter McNeely
Speed=8
Power=7
Skill=6
Defense=4
Stamina=6.5
Chin=2
Heart=?

King Hippo
Speed=5
Power=10
Skill=4
Defense=9
Stamina=5
Chin=6
Heart=2

Ivan Drago
Speed=7
Power=10
Skill=8
Defense=5 (Rocky hit him a lot.)
Stamina=10
Chin=10
Heart=9

Super Mario
Speed=10 Just press B.
Power=10 Lethal uppercut; often jumped into it.
Skill=10 Could turn a flower into fireballs...c'mon.
Defense=10 Could jump out of the way of anything.
Stamina=10 He could run a sprint all the way to level 9.
Chin=1 Got hit once he shrunk; hit twice, it's over.
Heart=10 Could have infinite lives.

Verstyle
06-05-2006, 08:06 PM
[QUOTE=Brassangel]He did crowd his opponents though. Anyone saying he didn't do it like Dempsey, or Frazier, is probably accurate. He did it like Tyson. He got right up in their chest, threw a shot or two to the body, and forced them to cover up. Afterwards, he found an awkward angle to fire away a combination from "mid" range as you have stated; though with a 71" reach, it was certainly close range by most normal people's standards. He had to quarter off the distance before establishing his comfortable punching range. Against Ali, that tactic, plus his speed, may have been the difference for a guy like Liston.

To seriously think that he didn't get right up in his opponent's chest...that was usually the first comments out of the mouth of a commentator when one of his fights got started. "Watch this young man get right in there on his opponent..," and, "Mike is getting right into Holmes's space, showing little respect for Larry's inside abilities..," also "Tyson will likely come right into Michael Spinks' chest..." I guess multitasking isn't common amidst the boxing fans. Listening as well as watching must be a lost art... :rolleyes: These were merely a few examples of what was basically stated in every fight he ever fought. In all but a very select few, he usually followed through.

most ppl that talk tyson most likely have not analyst him that much and go by what they hear. and look at his 95 and beyond performances. its hard for me to argue a point when i watch tyson every single day when the average person watch's a tyson fight maybe twice a year and try to argue with them

THE REAL NINJA
06-05-2006, 08:06 PM
He did crowd his opponents though. Anyone saying he didn't do it like Dempsey, or Frazier, is probably accurate. He did it like Tyson. He got right up in their chest, threw a shot or two to the body, and forced them to cover up. Afterwards, he found an awkward angle to fire away a combination from "mid" range as you have stated; though with a 71" reach, it was certainly close range by most normal people's standards. He had to quarter off the distance before establishing his comfortable punching range. Against Ali, that tactic, plus his speed, may have been the difference for a guy like Liston.

To seriously think that he didn't get right up in his opponent's chest...that was usually the first comments out of the mouth of a commentator when one of his fights got started. "Watch this young man get right in there on his opponent..," and, "Mike is getting right into Holmes's space, showing little respect for Larry's inside abilities..," also "Tyson will likely come right into Michael Spinks' chest..." I guess multitasking isn't common amidst the boxing fans. Listening as well as watching must be a lost art... :rolleyes: These were merely a few examples of what was basically stated in every fight he ever fought. In all but a very select few, he usually followed through.

Back to the main topic:

Peter McNeely
Speed=8
Power=7
Skill=6
Defense=4
Stamina=6.5
Chin=2
Heart=?

King Hippo
Speed=5
Power=10
Skill=4
Defense=9
Stamina=5
Chin=6
Heart=2

Ivan Drago
Speed=7
Power=10
Skill=8
Defense=5 (Rocky hit him a lot.)
Stamina=10
Chin=10
Heart=9

Super Mario
Speed=10 Just press B.
Power=10 Lethal uppercut; often jumped into it.
Skill=10 Could turn a flower into fireballs...c'mon.
Defense=10 Could jump out of the way of anything.
Stamina=10 He could run a sprint all the way to level 9.
Chin=1 Got hit once he shrunk; hit twice, it's over.
Heart=10 Could have infinite lives.
lol very funny :D

K-DOGG
06-05-2006, 08:17 PM
Brass, that playing card idea of yours is a real gem. You need to make the prototypes and try to pitch them to the makers of Pok-e-mon or Magick cards. Have a set for each original weight class....maybe even a pound-4-pound deck...


Love the idea.

THE REAL NINJA
06-05-2006, 08:54 PM
Brass, that playing card idea of yours is a real gem. You need to make the prototypes and try to pitch them to the makers of Pok-e-mon or Magick cards. Have a set for each original weight class....maybe even a pound-4-pound deck...


Love the idea.
and you should never tell the whole world about it on a open forum ....DUR DUR DUR :p .....

K-DOGG
06-05-2006, 08:56 PM
and you should never tell the whole world about it on a open forum ....DUR DUR DUR :p .....

Oops. :o Sorry Brass. :D

hellfire508
06-05-2006, 09:09 PM
Considering Tyson and Patterson were said to be faster than Ali wouldnt that make Ali a 9?

Unless my Ali footage is sped up :rolleyes: , I don't see how anyone can argue that. Ali's hands were significantly quicker than Tyson's IMO. When he got down and threw combinations, they were lightning. I don't care if Tyson's had more power, we are talking pure handspeed. Ali vs. Brian London, Terrell, Williams, Folley etc., had unmatched handspeed at heavyweight.

They clocked Ali's jab as being faster than Ray Robinsons, if that counts for anything.

Dempsey 1919
06-05-2006, 10:14 PM
Unless my Ali footage is sped up :rolleyes: , I don't see how anyone can argue that. Ali's hands were significantly quicker than Tyson's IMO. When he got down and threw combinations, they were lightning. I don't care if Tyson's had more power, we are talking pure handspeed. Ali vs. Brian London, Terrell, Williams, Folley etc., had unmatched handspeed at heavyweight.

They clocked Ali's jab as being faster than Ray Robinsons, if that counts for anything.

Yeah, rocco is delusional.

RockyMarcianofan00
06-05-2006, 10:30 PM
Ali's hand speed was very fast. Had Tyson fought like ali its very possible that you'd notice his handspeed was up there with Ali, but he fought with more power then ali so his stance wasn't meant for really fast hands. Because of the way Ali fought it was easier and better for him to throw fast.

Dempsey 1919
06-05-2006, 10:32 PM
Ali's hand speed was very fast. Had Tyson fought like ali its very possible that you'd notice his handspeed was up there with Ali, but he fought with more power then ali so his stance wasn't meant for really fast hands. Because of the way Ali fought it was easier and better for him to throw fast.

Even when ali sat on his punches they were still faster than tyson's hard punches. :rolleyes:

bebopfan05
06-05-2006, 10:35 PM
Ali's hands were the fastest in the heavyweight division, and there even faster today. He has the fastest hands in the senior citizen home. JK I know he lives on a ranch. :joke:

I don't know why i said that just popped into my head, and considering i don't post here that much why not be an *******

but no seriously I agree with RckyMarfan' to an extent but its obvious by looking at Ali's hands where the fastest ever, i thought that was like common knowledge :confused:

Ali's one of my favorite fighter

bebopfan05
06-05-2006, 10:36 PM
I'm trying to make a comeback
gimme pts and k :D

RockyMarcianofan00
06-05-2006, 10:37 PM
Even when ali sat on his punches they were still faster than tyson's hard punches. :rolleyes:
I disagree
but whatever Ali had the fastest hands in his prime

Dempsey 1919
06-06-2006, 12:27 AM
I disagree
but whatever Ali had the fastest hands in his prime

I'm taking about in his prime when he sat on his punches.

SABBATH
06-06-2006, 12:48 AM
Liston's reach advantage over Tyson is made up on the ground. Tyson spent most of his time in his opponent's chest. 71" is merely leverage when you're fast enough to get there. That's the point I was hoping to cover in my long explanation. However, my efforts are often bypassed, and the points ignored in favor of one incomplete line that a few people run with. It's the whole, hear what we want to syndrome...college, writing courses, communications skills, 15 years of boxing study and analysis...yaaaaar.If you believe Tyson at his best wouldn't have been defeated by the majority of history's best heavyweight champions due to his lack of heart and character, you're officially blinded by the Tyson mystique.

Your contention that Tyson would beat Ali is an opinion not shared by the vast majority of knowledgeable boxing people nor is it the opinion of all five people closely associated with Tyson's career who unanimously picked Ali in a dream fight over Tyson. That list included Tyson trainers Kevin Rooney and Teddy Atlas, former manager Bill Cayton, and former DAmato champions Floyd Patterson and Jose Torres.


You're flogging a dead horse..................

Brassangel
06-06-2006, 10:47 AM
I am simply of the belief that he had as good a chance as any, regardless of the naysayers. It's not based on mystique, simply upon careful observation. The Ali mystique is far larger than Tyson's, as Tyson's tends to go from one end of the spectrum to the other. While I know that you are a crazy hugger of Ali's era, like butterfly with better information, I'm not going to hold the "mystique" factor against you. Rather, I will continue to discuss whatever topic tickles my fancy for the time being, and while that topic was pretty much a dead one for me as of last week, it did happen to show it's face again. Just because a few people have made up their minds about it, doesn't mean that it isn't worth discussing. A few minds set in stone doesn't make the situation set in stone.

I always find it interesting as well, how people on this site will ignore the in-depth posts full of detail and research, education opinions and facts, to take one line from a post, make a shabby attempt to tear it apart (usually resulting in the blatant insults of the poster), and then consider it acceptable as a counterpoint. What's more is the 2-3 people who will follow that post with things like, "..Good post..." ignoring what has been said in oversighted fashion simply because they don't like to read.

I have attempted, whenever attacked, to return to the main thread topic for the sake of keeping it in it's place, but some feel the need to attack the character of the poster and not the information presented. I have made it obvious on various threads, that while you (SABBATH) are a gigantic hater of Mike Tyson (and therefore, guys like mystikal, Yaman, etc.), you rarely post anything intelligent in my direction and accuse me of being a fanboy of the same calibur. Seeing as how I don't have a favorite era, or really a favorite fighter, I am viewing his career more openly than most. This will be a continuing trend as this generation dies out and the die-hards of the 60's and 70's finally realize that just because television finally became a staple in every household (pre-pay-per-view) during this time, doesn't mean that it was the best or deepest era.

There were a lot of great fighters with similar abilities, and exaggerated styles trading punches, which made for some very entertaining clashes. It was also the first time that boxing, which used to be the prize of the sporting world, could be viewed by everyone around the world with more ready accessibility. It's easy for anyone to see that this creates a lot of buzz, a lot of hype, and a lot of expectations. As time would have it, however, the fighters became more defensive, more counterpunch savvy, and the trademark styles started to slip out of the scene. This gave off the illusion that the fighters weren't as talented as the ones from the 70's, which is complete hogwash to the trained eye.

Maybe I'm the only one on this site that feels this way, but that doesn't make me incorrect. I refuse to base my inclination on personal preferences, but rather, on the observable. One has to challenge the ways of society and what is viewed as the norm, or else we just become apart of the repetitious fold. This goes beyond the accepted opinons of boxing, into many things that are often taught in a presupposed fashion.

I am probably wasting my efforts here, as usual, since this post is likely too long for anyone to read all the way through.

SABBATH
06-06-2006, 12:08 PM
I always find it interesting as well, how people on this site will ignore the in-depth posts full of detail and research, education opinions and facts, to take one line from a post, make a shabby attempt to tear it apart.Writing a page full of opinionated drivel and trying to pass it off as in-depth, researched and educated does little to mask the fact that your analytical understanding of boxing, boxers or it's history for that matter leave much to be desired. As someone who has amassed a respectable fight film and literary library in the last 30 years it doesn't take me long to seperate the knowledgeable (Yogi, Kid Achilles, K-Dogg for example) from the less knowledgeable members like yourself.

Most of your reasoning and logic is so flawed it does nothing more than illustrate that while you know very little, you are under the false impression that you actually do. Here's just one of your most recent ridiculous offerings:

"...as time would have it, however, the fighters became more defensive, more counterpunch savvy, and the trademark styles started to slip out of the scene. This gave off the illusion that the fighters weren't as talented as the ones from the 70's, which is complete hogwash to the trained eye..."

Do you really put any thought into posting such nonsense? With this kind of deductive reasoning and logic, a 30's era heavyweight (Joe Louis) would be inferior to a 'modern' heavyweight like John Ruiz or Hasim Rachman. Maybe Ray Robinson being great is an illusion also as he competed in the caveman era of the 40's and 50's. And what "trained eye" do you have?

If I choose to defend particular fighters against the ignorant, uneducated and uninformed, that doesn't make me a "crazy hugger" unless you consider yourself a "crazy Tyson hugger" for referring to me as "dumbass" when I posted a sportswriter's assesment of Tyson (not my own), which by the way was not the worst account of Tyson I could have offered up to this forum. Then again you've started no less than three Tyson fantasy threads in which you have picked him over both Ali and Louis in dream match-ups. Strange coming from a guy that claims he doesn't really have a "favourite fighter."

I often exchange my views and opinions with knowledgeable and respected members of the boxing media (both print and television), boxing historians and members of the International Boxing Research Organization. I have also authored published boxing articles, which have attracted the interest of Sports Illustrated and Ring Magazine and was recently offered the job of boxing correspondent by one of the top boxing websites. I don't believe I have an 'untrained' eye. While you may choose to dismiss my views as "butterfly with better information" these respected and knowledgeable members of the boxing fraternity do not.

Many of my views have been both formulated and rienforced from meeting and speaking to fighters like Muhammad Ali, Joe Frazier, Lennox Lewis, Sugar Ray Leonard, Aaron Pryor, Carmen Basilio, Willie Pep etc.... I have also been fortunate enough to gain inside information about Ali, Frazier, Foreman, Tyson etc...from speaking one on one at length with their opponents George Chuvalo as well as Tyson opponent Conroy Nelson.

You might want to actually try digesting some of what you read on these forums before being so quick to dismiss the source.

By the way here's the most recent top ten ATG heavyweight listing compiled by the historians at IBRO in 2005.

Joe Louis
Muhammad Ali
Jack Johnson
Jack Dempsey
Rocky Marciano
Larry Holmes
James J. Jeffries
George Foreman
Sonny Liston
Joe Frazier
By my count that's 4 out of 10 that reigned in the 70's. Why don't you drop them a line and tell them their list is 'hogwash to the trained eye'. IBRO can be reached at dan@ibroresearch.com (atdan@ibroresearch.com) . I'm sure they'll have a good laugh at your expense.

Yaman
06-06-2006, 12:17 PM
Many of my views have been both formulated and rienforced from meeting and speaking to fighters like Muhammad Ali, Joe Frazier, Sugar Ray Leonard, Aaron Pryor, Carmen Basilio, Willie Pep etc.... I have also been fortunate enough to gain inside information about Ali, Frazier, Foreman, Tyson etc...from speaking one on one at length with George Chuvalo as well as Tyson opponent Conroy Nelson.

But you're also a die hard Ozzy Osbourne fan, smasher lmao.
Dont try to make people think you are some kind of boxing historician with a ''boxing library'' even though you get your crap out of boxrec.com. Your opinions always have a biased personal feeling behind it because of your hate and love for fighters. Get out of the closet Ozboy.

SABBATH
06-06-2006, 12:24 PM
But you're also a die hard Ozzy Osbourne fan, smasher lmao.
Dont try to make people think you are some kind of boxing historician with a ''boxing library'' even though you get your crap out of boxrec.com. Your opinions always have a biased personal feeling behind it because of your hate and love for fighters. Get out of the closet Ozboy.Introducing the posterboy for proving my point about the ignorant, uneducated and uninormed.....Yaman. Too bad for you because I had some interesting Tyson insight and stories I was about to share but I'll reserve them for those that will listen to them....

In the meantime find out who Corrie Sanders is...

videogamesntoys
06-06-2006, 12:59 PM
future great
pacquiao barrera morales
speed 10 9 9
power 10 9 9
skill 9 10 10
defense 8 9 8
stamina 10 9 9
chin 10 10 10
heart 10 9 8

hellfire508
06-06-2006, 08:50 PM
future great
pacquiao barrera morales
speed 10 9 9
power 10 9 9
skill 9 10 10
defense 8 9 8
stamina 10 9 9
chin 10 10 10
heart 10 9 8

That is good, except for chin and heart. Are you serious? Erik Morales has the biggest heart in boxing! He deserves a 10, hands down. He is up there with Frazier and Holyfield. I say for heart: Barrera - 8, Pacquiao - 9.5, Morales - 10. As for chin, Morales has a better chin that Barrera, and Pac's is probably around the same. I say Barrera - 9, Pac and Morales 10.

Verstyle
06-06-2006, 08:57 PM
i bet to differ on who had the fast hands in the heavyweight division ever :rolleyes: and this is with some power :cool:
<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/A42BzG80XWk"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/A42BzG80XWk" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

Heckler
06-06-2006, 09:39 PM
Ive actually seen Ali hit the heavybag faster... And thats in training camp for FOTC... 1971!

In this and Tysons fights i have never seen him show the kind of speed shown by Ali against London... i have never seen a HW display that kind of speed. Tyson definately has the best combination of handspeed and power there is, not so far behind is Joe Louis.

Verstyle
06-06-2006, 09:41 PM
Ive actually seen Ali hit the heavybag faster... And thats in training camp for FOTC... 1971!

In this and Tysons fights i have never seen him show the kind of speed shown by Ali against London... i have never seen a HW display that kind of speed.


video please! of ali hiting the bag faster. since i tend to mimic tysons style sometimes i mix it up and throw shots with my power behind them and im lightning fast.jus imagine if tyson did it.

Heckler
06-06-2006, 09:46 PM
I have a DVD documentary ... ALI: THE GREATEST which shows him training before the FOTC. I have no idea how to get that clip from the DVD to my computer.

SABBATH
06-06-2006, 11:39 PM
Tyson never did much damage when he was on his opponents chest, more often than not he was engaged in a clinch when he was at such a range. Tyson did most of his damage at mid range. In fact, you'd often see him stepping back to give himself more space to throw during a combination. Tyson was not one of those guys (ie Dempsey, Louis) who could do serious damage inside, in spite of his physicality.

In fact, Tyson's apparent discomfort with extreme close quarter combat is one of the reasons I'd give a Dempsey or Frazier (or even a durable, tough as nails inside counter puncher like Jerry Quarry) such a good chance against him. For a small heavyweight, he was not the trench warfare expert he should have been. Fortunately for him, he came around at a time when infighting was all but a dead art in heavyweight boxing.Well said Kid. Here's an excerpt from George Chuvalo discussing this topic. Keep in mind this interview was before Tyson fought Holyfield and was officially exposed as a poor in-fighter.

"...And Tyson. Hes a tough kid. He walks right in. Hes that kind of a guy. Hes got lots of balls too. I like Tyson. Id like to meet Tyson and show him a couple of things. I could help Mike.

His problem is he doesnt know how to fight on the inside. If you take a look at his fight with Buster Mathis, Jr., he exposed that. Theres a c h i n k in the armor. Hes too straight up on the inside. If he ever pulled his right leg back, his whole upper body would be at a forty five degree angle. Hed have his head on the other guys chest. Hed be safe. The other guy would have no room for any leverage and Mike would have all the leverage. His stance works against him on the inside. Hes easy to push back and he cant fight when hes going backwards. .. "

hellfire508
06-07-2006, 12:24 AM
What you will notice with that Tyson video (I only watched the first minute), is that the punches don't have much power, and they are short, compact punches. Ali threw punches at long range, pulling utilising his long reach. I have seen the Ali clip Heckler is talking about, and Ali is certainly quick there too.

However, as the saying goes, "the heavybag doesnt hit back". Handspeed in a fight is much more useful to gauge by. Tyson usually fights at mid-range (usually further than in the video), and Ali pretty much always fought at long range. Plus, Ali's combinations looked visibly faster. Look at the finishing combo on Brian London. Not all the punches land, but that is flyweight handspeed. It's ridiculous.

Brassangel
06-07-2006, 12:49 AM
Originally Posted by SABBATH
Do you really put any thought into posting such nonsense? With this kind of deductive reasoning and logic, a 30's era heavyweight (Joe Louis) would be inferior to a 'modern' heavyweight like John Ruiz or Hasim Rachman. Maybe Ray Robinson being great is an illusion also as he competed in the caveman era of the 40's and 50's. And what "trained eye" do you have?

I did put thought into the post, which says more than the junk that follows your name. You can't post anything intelligent of your own accord; it's always copy-and-paste from some random article, ensuring that the bias towards one particular era shines through. It's like the frieking media.

No, Joe Louis would not be inferior to "modern" heavyweights, but he would have some disadvantages. There's a great chance that he'd still reign as champion. What I am referring to is how the fighters of the 70's, while a broad generalization for the sake of space, were almost style happy; for lack of a better term. They were often more offensive minded, attacking with their particular style, and losing in matchups where styles were contradictory. Today's fighters tend to wait for the opponent to make their move and counterpunch. While this would work well against someone who depends on one particular style, it may not bode well against say, Joe Louis, who was one of the most complete boxers in history and had nearly infinite adaptability. Or fighters like Rocky Marciano, or Joe Frazier, whose hearts were so big and their work ethic so fanatical that they overcame incredible odds. Or a fighter like Tyson who was so physically gifted that he was able to overcome his height and reach disadvantages (and lack of heart) time and time again. They could all still lose, however, simply because of stature and training differences. Many of the fighters today are incredible in size, patience, and willingness to counter all day long. While this makes for unexciting fights, and therefore, an unexciting division as it stands, they could win fights against guys who relied on trademark or even flashy styles.

I have posted three threads about Tyson, but who is more controversial in the division? Who attracts more attention than any other fighter subjectively? Who will bring out the best and worst of most people's viewpoints? The idea is to create a spark, or push the Slinky down the first stair and let it roll. I have also posted fantasy threads about Liston vs. Foreman, Holyfield vs. Frazier, Who has the most stamina?, March Madness (heavyweights), and May Madness (middleweights). I tend to jump around and find something that gets the creative juices in the typing fingers flowing. While Tyson's glass looks particularly empty, I try to go against the norm and accept the parts that were full. I don't deny what he lacks, nor will I claim anything fanatical about him (like a 1st round KO of Ali), but I will take an eye, trained whether you are the judge of that or not, and break his career down in a way that most people don't.

Again, I await your attack of one line/paragraph within my post while avoiding all of the context within. Furthermore, you aren't the resident authority because of your visitations with fighters and your library. Why else would you be labeled a "fan" just like the rest of us...you're on the exact same level as even the lowest in the category. Who's to say butterfly's posts about Ali aren't all true? Or that Yaman's posts about Tyson aren't the way things would have happened? Or even that MarcianoFan's love of the only undefeated champ isn't proof enough that Rocky would have destroyed anyone from any era? While there are times for opinions and times for the facts, this is a fantasy forum, with fantasy threads about fantasy fights, in fantasy situations, comparing apples to oranges. You are getting far too upset over something that will never be more than pure speculation.

SABBATH
06-07-2006, 02:47 AM
Furthermore, you aren't the resident authority because of your visitations with fighters and your library. Why else would you be labeled a "fan" just like the rest of us...you're on the exact same level as even the lowest in the category.I've never claimed to be the "resident authority" but seeing how I have actually met, spoken and questioned AT LENGTH the very fighters who have been in the ring with Sugar Ray Robinson, Tyson, Ali, Frazier, Foreman, Holmes, Hagler, Hearns, Duran, Arguello, etc...I would certainly put my insight above mere "the exact same level as even the lowest in the category."

When a boxer is in an informal discussion and they know it's not going to be printed, they shoot from the hip and offer up much more information than you can get from reading printed interviews or watching press conferences. It has been my experience that in this setting boxers will open up, more so if they are aware that the person they are speaking with is knowledgeable and has good insight into the sport of boxing.

Meeting and speaking one on one with great fighters and making a point to specifically ask for information regarding the comparative qualities of their opponents ie: power, speed, strength, style etc... from the actual men who fought these great fighters I would say gives me a pretty good edge over many who post on these forums.

How many of you really know how Chuvalo injured his eye in the Frazier fight? How many know what Ali actually says in a clinch to his opponent? How fast were Ali's hands compared to Patterson's? How hard does Foreman hit compared to Frazier, Quarry, Bonevena, Patterson or Ali? How strong was Cleveland Williams? These are just some of the many questions I have put to Chuvalo when I have spoken with him (more than once).

What does it feel like to be hit by Hearns as opposed to Duran or Hagler? Who had a better defense and was harder to hit, Benitez or Duran? Why did Duran really quit in New Orleans? These are just some of the questions that were answered by Sugar Ray Leonard when I spoke with him.

What about asking Marvis Frazier and Conroy Nelson to describe in detail their fights with Tyson as well as their opinions on his strengths and comparative punching power. ****, I stood face to face with Nelson in an apartment hallway as he re-enacted the whole fight for me, throwing punches about a foot from my face in the process.

What was Lennox Lewis like as an amateur? I could tell you seeing as I spoke with him often when we were teenagers and fought out of opposing Boxing clubs in the early 80's.

How exactly did Aaron Pryor actually train when he was in his prime and how good did he look in the ring? I could tell you that as I saw every one of his training sessions standing at the ring apron a mere few feet away as he prepared for Nicky Furlano in 1984.

What's it like to meet Ali then later walk alone with him arm over his shoulder as he approaches a crowd of fans standing around his waiting limousine? I could tell you that as I did that in 1995. What does Ali talk about when he reunites with an old opponent? Do they ever talk about their actual fights? I could tell you that also.

These are just a few snippets of what I have been exposed to and how some of my information and/or opinions have been obtained or confirmed so in regards to me being "on the exact same level as the lowest in the category", I don't agree with you.

Heckler
06-07-2006, 02:54 AM
I Dont know Sabbath... but id love to. Have you any articles or notes on the matter available?

Verstyle
06-07-2006, 03:49 AM
What you will notice with that Tyson video (I only watched the first minute), is that the punches don't have much power, and they are short, compact punches. Ali threw punches at long range, pulling utilising his long reach. I have seen the Ali clip Heckler is talking about, and Ali is certainly quick there too.

However, as the saying goes, "the heavybag doesnt hit back". Handspeed in a fight is much more useful to gauge by. Tyson usually fights at mid-range (usually further than in the video), and Ali pretty much always fought at long range. Plus, Ali's combinations looked visibly faster. Look at the finishing combo on Brian London. Not all the punches land, but that is flyweight handspeed. It's ridiculous.

i dont even know u but i have to say that was the dumbest comment i think i've ever heard on boxingscene ever!

Yaman
06-07-2006, 07:11 AM
i dont even know u but i have to say that was the dumbest comment i think i've ever heard on boxingscene ever!

Those punches didn't have power by watching the shape of the heavy bag and sound it makes when the punches land hahahaha :D

hellfire508
06-07-2006, 07:50 AM
i dont even know u but i have to say that was the dumbest comment i think i've ever heard on boxingscene ever!

Well perhaps when the video goes on he starts to hit it harder, but like I said, I only watched the first minute.

a) its a small heavybag - you wanna see power on a REAL heavybag? Watch Liston or Foreman on it.
b) If that's full power for him, then he hits as hard as Pacquiao.

You cannot possibly think that those punches were all that hard. And as for the distance of the punches, is that too difficult for you to understand? Short punches are thrown quicker...? Do you understand that? A-B is quicker than A-C? Grade 2 stuff here mate.

Stop making ridiculous comments about "the worst post ever" and get an education. Of course to do that, you will have to let go of Tyson's balls.

Verstyle
06-07-2006, 07:53 AM
Well perhaps when the video goes on he starts to hit it harder, but like I said, I only watched the first minute.

a) its a small heavybag - you wanna see power on a REAL heavybag? Watch Liston or Foreman on it.
b) If that's full power for him, then he hits as hard as Pacquiao.

You cannot possibly think that those punches were all that hard. And as for the distance of the punches, is that too difficult for you to understand? Short punches are thrown quicker...? Do you understand that? A-B is quicker than A-C? Grade 2 stuff here mate.

Stop making ridiculous comments about "the worst post ever" and get an education. Of course to do that, you will have to let go of Tyson's balls.


i will quote this dumb post once i come back from work ;)

hellfire508
06-07-2006, 07:58 AM
Ok I watched a bit more of it. He starts to bring in left hooks to the body, then up top. Those carry a more power. However, it's still not pull power. How can I tell? Because if Mike Tyson hit a pissy little heavybag like that down low, with a hook with full power, it would do a loop. However, throughout the video, he stays in at close range, and occasionly throws some straight left and rights from mid-range. Therefore my comment stands. If you still can't understand it, let me know, and I'll make sure I get the local second grade teacher to explain it in your level of english.

And whoever made the bull**** comment about the "sound". Padded gloves onto a bag always makes a slapping sound. Ever hit a bag with gloves before? :rolleyes:

hellfire508
06-07-2006, 07:59 AM
i will quote this dumb post once i come back from work ;)

Ok bud, you do that. By then I'll be in bed, so don't expect an immediate reply. Unless you only work one hour shifts?

hellfire508
06-07-2006, 08:01 AM
Ok I watched a bit more of it. He starts to bring in left hooks to the body, then up top. Those carry a more power. However, it's still not pull power. How can I tell? Because if Mike Tyson hit a pissy little heavybag like that down low, with a hook with full power, it would do a loop. However, throughout the video, he stays in at close range, and occasionly throws some straight left and rights from mid-range. Therefore my comment stands. If you still can't understand it, let me know, and I'll make sure I get the local second grade teacher to explain it in your level of english.

And whoever made the bull**** comment about the "sound". Padded gloves onto a bag always makes a slapping sound. Ever hit a bag with gloves before? :rolleyes:

Cmon mate, it says you're still online. Reply to my dumb post. It took me about 30 seconds to write this, surely you can write your pathetic reply in that time.

Yaman
06-07-2006, 08:04 AM
I've seen a lot more footage of Mike on the heavybag, and some on the real big heavybag aswell. You just gotta wait for my highlight to come out for that.

And yes, he did show power on that video, you are stupid. Bye now.

hellfire508
06-07-2006, 08:05 AM
I've seen a lot more footage of Mike on the heavybag, and some on the real big heavybag aswell. You just gotta wait for my highlight to come out for that.

And yes, he did show power on that video, you are stupid. Bye now.

Well I can't speak for the other footage. I'm strictly referring to the footage you've provided.

And like I said, the short range left hooks did have power. Did I deny that? Is reading an issue?

Heckler
06-07-2006, 08:07 AM
yeah doesn't look like he's going full power at all.

hellfire508
06-07-2006, 08:11 AM
yeah doesn't look like he's going full power at all.

Thankyou. Thank god someone has vision.

Either he wasn't going out, or Tyson's power is overrated. Take your pick fanboys.

Yaman
06-07-2006, 08:20 AM
Deckler is a Tyson hater like yourself, so whatever.

This heavy bag workout didnt look any diffirent than when Tyson was in Tokyo hitting big heavybags. He looked even more impressive. or after prison before the McNeely fight..or Holyfield fights..or before Bruno, Ruddock even in his first year. yeah i've seen them all unlike you haters.

Juding Tyson's power on this video is ludacris. So stick to the topic of scaling the greats will ya? Thanks YOU.

hellfire508
06-07-2006, 08:30 AM
Deckler is a Tyson hater like yourself, so whatever.

This heavy bag workout didnt look any diffirent than when Tyson was in Tokyo hitting big heavybags. He looked even more impressive. or after prison before the McNeely fight..or Holyfield fights..or before Bruno, Ruddock even in his first year. yeah i've seen them all unlike you haters.

Juding Tyson's power on this video is ludacris. So stick to the topic of scaling the greats will ya? Thanks YOU.

So NOOOOWWWWWWWWWWW we can stop discussing it. OK mate. ;)

I KNOW Tyson hit damn hard. And he wasn't hitting DAMN hard in that video. If you disagree, you're an idiot. Simple as that.

Brassangel
06-07-2006, 10:50 AM
Chances are, Tyson was going over the motions, not hitting the bag with full power. He probably would have sent it reeling in a loop if he was. Power isn't always necessary to punch effectively.

In regards to Sabbath, I guess I'll just stand two feet in front of where I was, looking back, as he simply took a poke at a comment or two instead of analyzing something in-depth. Oh, and by the way, your encounters with these men is very impressive. It still doesn't mean that you carry any more weight in here than anybody else. Although I would like to know what Marvis Frazier felt about his match with Tyson. I've already spoken to Joe about it.

SABBATH
06-07-2006, 11:16 AM
Chances are, Tyson was going over the motions, not hitting the bag with full power. He probably would have sent it reeling in a loop if he was. Power isn't always necessary to punch effectively.

In regards to Sabbath, I guess I'll just stand two feet in front of where I was, looking back, as he simply took a poke at a comment or two instead of analyzing something in-depth. Oh, and by the way, your encounters with these men is very impressive. It still doesn't mean that you carry any more weight in here than anybody else. Although I would like to know what Marvis Frazier felt about his match with Tyson. I've already spoken to Joe about it.I wouldn't expect you to have any interest in any inside information outside of Mike Tyson anyway. Anyhow, keep up the fantasy fiction writing and the smoke and mirrors you provide to disguise your lack of boxing knowledge. I shared a good laugh with an IBRO member on the phone this morning when I linked him to one of your posts....

Heckler
06-07-2006, 12:50 PM
Deckler is a Tyson hater like yourself, so whatever.

This heavy bag workout didnt look any diffirent than when Tyson was in Tokyo hitting big heavybags. He looked even more impressive. or after prison before the McNeely fight..or Holyfield fights..or before Bruno, Ruddock even in his first year. yeah i've seen them all unlike you haters.

Juding Tyson's power on this video is ludacris. So stick to the topic of scaling the greats will ya? Thanks YOU.

Since when was i a Tyson hater? I actually like Mike?

By me saying that it didn't look like Tyson was giving it full power am i not crediting the man? Considering it appears to others that that he's hitting it at full power?

Anyone that disagrees with you is a hater or biased right?

Right.

Heckler
06-07-2006, 12:54 PM
Chances are, Tyson was going over the motions, not hitting the bag with full power. He probably would have sent it reeling in a loop if he was. Power isn't always necessary to punch effectively.

In regards to Sabbath, I guess I'll just stand two feet in front of where I was, looking back, as he simply took a poke at a comment or two instead of analyzing something in-depth. Oh, and by the way, your encounters with these men is very impressive. It still doesn't mean that you carry any more weight in here than anybody else. Although I would like to know what Marvis Frazier felt about his match with Tyson. I've already spoken to Joe about it.

Tyson was going through the motions, anyone that has hit a heavybag with proper instruction would realise that Tyson isn't going all out. He's using short, sharp punches as i believe rooney has instructed him to.

Brassangel
06-07-2006, 01:57 PM
It also seems that this is the direction Rooney wanted to take Tyson when he was fighting higher ranked opponents. Sharp, effective punches to conserve some power for the later rounds. It's a shame Tyson had a different (and stupid) vision of his own.

Scaling more greats:

Roy Jones, Jr.(before he jumped up to Heavyweight)
speed=10
power=8
skills=10
defense=9
chin=8
stamina=10
heart=9

Maybe I'm nuts; I just thought he was really amazing at that level.

SABBATH
06-07-2006, 02:52 PM
I would like to know what Marvis Frazier felt about his match with Tyson. I've already spoken to Joe about it. Did you ask him before or after you offered him fries with his Big Mac?

Brassangel
06-07-2006, 03:17 PM
I'm pretty sure he tried avoiding that kinda crap. He also didn't drink beer; said it does no good for the human body.

So, you could answer my question, or continue to be a child.

SABBATH
06-07-2006, 03:50 PM
I'm pretty sure he tried avoiding that kinda crap. He also didn't drink beer; said it does no good for the human body.
Fascinating insight into Joe Frazier's diet. What about the Bonevena fight, did he carb load? What about his creatine intake before the Ali fight, GNC or Muscletech? Tell me I can't wait!

Verstyle
06-07-2006, 04:58 PM
Well perhaps when the video goes on he starts to hit it harder, but like I said, I only watched the first minute.

a) its a small heavybag - you wanna see power on a REAL heavybag? Watch Liston or Foreman on it.
b) If that's full power for him, then he hits as hard as Pacquiao.

You cannot possibly think that those punches were all that hard. And as for the distance of the punches, is that too difficult for you to understand? Short punches are thrown quicker...? Do you understand that? A-B is quicker than A-C? Grade 2 stuff here mate.

Stop making ridiculous comments about "the worst post ever" and get an education. Of course to do that, you will have to let go of Tyson's balls.


first bold quote.tyson hitting as hard as manny pacquiao ooooooooooooooooookkkkkkkk.some1 has had alittle to much to drink in his cup. maybe your thinking of some1 else cause if your thinkin of tyson then i will report to your job that u r doing drugs and need to be tested.
quote 2.first i will start this off with this :rolleyes: . ok now back to the quote.cant possible believe those punches were all tht hard? its ****IN MIKE TYSON!!!!!!!!!!!! what do u think they r soft punches! was it not obvious it was an airbag that was tightly secured by chains so it wont move so much.

and the last bold quote. yeah short punches r thrown quicker u dumb ****. less distance equals quicker time. or do i have to take YOU back to **** school so u can realize it two ppl r going the same speed and 1s in front of the other 1 which 1 is going to get to there destination quicker? hell u probably dont even know that 1. like i said worst post i've ever read. well sorry second worst post now.

Verstyle
06-07-2006, 05:00 PM
Ok I watched a bit more of it. He starts to bring in left hooks to the body, then up top. Those carry a more power. However, it's still not pull power. How can I tell? Because if Mike Tyson hit a pissy little heavybag like that down low, with a hook with full power, it would do a loop. However, throughout the video, he stays in at close range, and occasionly throws some straight left and rights from mid-range. Therefore my comment stands. If you still can't understand it, let me know, and I'll make sure I get the local second grade teacher to explain it in your level of english.

And whoever made the bull**** comment about the "sound". Padded gloves onto a bag always makes a slapping sound. Ever hit a bag with gloves before? :rolleyes:


your the rookie dumb ****. and not all punches r going to make a slapping sound. maybe if u got your lazy ass off the computer and went to the gym like i do instead of guessing then maybe u would know this. your a ****in no knowledge mother ****er

Verstyle
06-07-2006, 05:02 PM
Thankyou. Thank god someone has vision.

Either he wasn't going out, or Tyson's power is overrated. Take your pick fanboys.


*****. where in the post did i say he went full power? hoe i put the video on for speed shows how ****in a big moron u r :rolleyes:

Yogi
06-07-2006, 05:36 PM
I blame Nintendo. :(

hellfire508
06-07-2006, 10:55 PM
first bold quote.tyson hitting as hard as manny pacquiao ooooooooooooooooookkkkkkkk.some1 has had alittle to much to drink in his cup. maybe your thinking of some1 else cause if your thinkin of tyson then i will report to your job that u r doing drugs and need to be tested.
quote 2.first i will start this off with this :rolleyes: . ok now back to the quote.cant possible believe those punches were all tht hard? its ****IN MIKE TYSON!!!!!!!!!!!! what do u think they r soft punches! was it not obvious it was an airbag that was tightly secured by chains so it wont move so much.

and the last bold quote. yeah short punches r thrown quicker u dumb ****. less distance equals quicker time. or do i have to take YOU back to **** school so u can realize it two ppl r going the same speed and 1s in front of the other 1 which 1 is going to get to there destination quicker? hell u probably dont even know that 1. like i said worst post i've ever read. well sorry second worst post now.

Wow, you are such a gangsta. :rolleyes:

A) sarcasm. Ever heard of it? Look it up mate.

B) The punches were hard, but not compared to what he is capable of. They were nothing compared to what he could have been throwing.

C) Umm, what the **** are you on about? I said to you that short punches are quicker. LOL! pwned

hellfire508
06-07-2006, 10:57 PM
your the rookie dumb ****. and not all punches r going to make a slapping sound. maybe if u got your lazy ass off the computer and went to the gym like i do instead of guessing then maybe u would know this. your a ****in no knowledge mother ****er

Rookie? LOL! Ok mate. You're telling me (someone with not even 500 posts) to get off the computer? I'm sorry Mr.6000 posts. HAHAHAHA!!!!! Get a life mate.

And what would you know about me fighting? For all you know, I am a national amateur champion. (I'm not), but I don't brag about how good I am like some people around here. :rolleyes:

Heckler
06-07-2006, 10:59 PM
Damn Yogi's avatar... i can't help but piss myself laughing everytime i see that dopey looking bear standing there.

hellfire508
06-07-2006, 11:01 PM
*****. where in the post did i say he went full power? hoe i put the video on for speed shows how ****in a big moron u r :rolleyes:

Funny how you have to back track, and claim you never said anything about power? No need to take out your frustration on lack of schooling on me. Send a letter the your administration, I'm sure they will listen to your request for education reform.


"*****, hoe, ***,". Why don't you just shut the **** up? Drop the try-hard gangsta act. Seriously, grow up and get a life. I think it's hilarious, that when I graduate from university in 3 years with a double degree, you'll still be holding your gun sideways robbing the corner store in Detorit, or Compton or some****. Grow up.

Verstyle
06-07-2006, 11:05 PM
Wow, you are such a gangsta. :rolleyes:

A) sarcasm. Ever heard of it? Look it up mate.

B) The punches were hard, but not compared to what he is capable of. They were nothing compared to what he could have been throwing.

C) Umm, what the **** are you on about? I said to you that short punches are quicker. LOL! pwned


nooooooooooooooooooooooow your trying to sacarsm a whole day later. yyyyyeahh sure buddy ;) jus cause ppl saw the stupidity of your post

Verstyle
06-07-2006, 11:07 PM
Rookie? LOL! Ok mate. You're telling me (someone with not even 500 posts) to get off the computer? I'm sorry Mr.6000 posts. HAHAHAHA!!!!! Get a life mate.

And what would you know about me fighting? For all you know, I am a national amateur champion. (I'm not), but I don't brag about how good I am like some people around here. :rolleyes:


champion my ass. with post like that. about tyson's power i wouldnt even think u watched tyson. jus pathetic :rolleyes: and jus cause i have 6,000 post doesnt mean i have no life. i probably make more money then u and yo momma put together and i got to boxing and yourself :rolleyes:

Brassangel
06-07-2006, 11:09 PM
I don't know much else about Frazier's diet, other than Steak & Salad for many a dinner; but I did learn about his workout....which was absolutely insane! More calisthenics and cardio than one could shake a stick at. Minimal weight lifting, maximum endurance training. It does give a person rock hard abs in a short amount of time, as I can attest to.

By the way, salad makes things easier to digest (for most people).

P.S. How short with the Tarver vs. Hopkins fight be?

hellfire508
06-07-2006, 11:10 PM
nooooooooooooooooooooooow your trying to sacarsm a whole day later. yyyyyeahh sure buddy ;) jus cause ppl saw the stupidity of your post

Yes, I was serious that Pacquiao hit harder than Tyson? :rolleyes:

Verstyle
06-07-2006, 11:11 PM
Funny how you have to back track, and claim you never said anything about power? No need to take out your frustration on lack of schooling on me. Send a letter the your administration, I'm sure they will listen to your request for education reform.


"*****, hoe, ***,". Why don't you just shut the **** up? Drop the try-hard gangsta act. Seriously, grow up and get a life. I think it's hilarious, that when I graduate from university in 3 years with a double degree, you'll still be holding your gun sideways robbing the corner store in Detorit, or Compton or some****. Grow up.


talkin about a black guy stereotype. u must wanna get banned huh.and like i said dumbass i didnt put the video up for power. if u were at least a tiny bit aware on what goes in your brain u would see i was refering to the whole ****IN PAGE WHEN THEY WERE TALKIN ABOUT SPEED. obviously u didnt pick up on that on your. thinking level huh :rolleyes:

hellfire508
06-07-2006, 11:12 PM
champion my ass. with post like that. about tyson's power i wouldnt even think u watched tyson. jus pathetic :rolleyes: and jus cause i have 6,000 post doesnt mean i have no life. i probably make more money then u and yo momma put together and i got to boxing and yourself :rolleyes:

I clearly said I'm not a national champion. And for your information, I make **** all money. Only about $20,000 a year. I don't care though, because I'm a full time university student. Once I graduate, I'll be on more money than you'll see in your life. Oh, and my mum doesn't earn too much, but my dad does. But finanical situations are irrelevant here, so I won't embarass you.

Verstyle
06-07-2006, 11:12 PM
Yes, I was serious that Pacquiao hit harder than Tyson? :rolleyes:


u said tyson didnt hit hard.enough said for me to realize how stupid u r. let him hit u with 1 of those shots he was throwing and tell me if he hits hard ;)

hellfire508
06-07-2006, 11:14 PM
talkin about a black guy stereotype. u must wanna get banned huh.and like i said dumbass i didnt put the video up for power. if u were at least a tiny bit aware on what goes in your brain u would see i was refering to the whole ****IN PAGE WHEN THEY WERE TALKIN ABOUT SPEED. obviously u didnt pick up on that on your. thinking level huh :rolleyes:

Not at all a "black guy" stereotype. It's a "gangsta" stereotype.

And yes, I acknowledge the video was for speed. All I ever said was the punches weren't hard for him, which obviously implies he can throw them quicker. If you had 12 year old logic, you would understand that.

Verstyle
06-07-2006, 11:14 PM
I clearly said I'm not a national champion. And for your information, I make **** all money. Only about $20,000 a year. I don't care though, because I'm a full time university student. Once I graduate, I'll be on more money than you'll see in your life. Oh, and my mum doesn't earn too much, but my dad does. But finanical situations are irrelevant here, so I won't embarass you.


yeah sure more money then me when u graduate ahaha my ass. and only 20,000 a year ahahaha i wouldnt even had posted that **** up

hellfire508
06-07-2006, 11:15 PM
u said tyson didnt hit hard.enough said for me to realize how stupid u r. let him hit u with 1 of those shots he was throwing and tell me if he hits hard ;)

Is that what I said is it? LOL! Find the quote, mate. And why would I let him hit me? He would knock me out. That's just a ridiculous comment.

Verstyle
06-07-2006, 11:15 PM
Not at all a "black guy" stereotype. It's a "gangsta" stereotype.

And yes, I acknowledge the video was for speed. All I ever said was the punches weren't hard for him, which obviously implies he can throw them quicker. If you had 12 year old logic, you would understand that.


u wanna talk about 12year old logic. i had to remind your dumb ass it was about speed and not power ahahaha. OWNED

hellfire508
06-07-2006, 11:16 PM
yeah sure more money then me when u graduate ahaha my ass. and only 20,000 a year ahahaha i wouldnt even had posted that **** up

19 years old, working as a casual manager at a retail store. There you go, some more details. I don't see whats so funny? Everyone makes more money when they graduate with a degree. Except I will have two, from Monash University (the best in Australia)... so I wouldn't be laughing. What further education do you have?

hellfire508
06-07-2006, 11:17 PM
u wanna talk about 12year old logic. i had to remind your dumb ass it was about speed and not power ahahaha. OWNED

Oh god, this is like talking to my 6 year old nephew. Ok, have it your way. I got "owned" real badly. :rolleyes:

Verstyle
06-07-2006, 11:17 PM
Is that what I said is it? LOL! Find the quote, mate. And why would I let him hit me? He would knock me out. That's just a ridiculous comment.

[QUOTE=hellfire508]What you will notice with that Tyson video (I only watched the first minute), is that the punches don't have much power, and they are short, compact punches. Ali threw punches at long range, pulling utilising his long reach. I have seen the Ali clip Heckler is talking about, and Ali is certainly quick there too.

doesnt it suck for u to always be wrong :rolleyes: u owned yourself on that 1. so i would jus move along and shut the **** up ;)

hellfire508
06-07-2006, 11:19 PM
[QUOTE=hellfire508]What you will notice with that Tyson video (I only watched the first minute), is that the punches don't have much power, and they are short, compact punches. Ali threw punches at long range, pulling utilising his long reach. I have seen the Ali clip Heckler is talking about, and Ali is certainly quick there too.

doesnt it suck for u to always be wrong :rolleyes: u owned yourself on that 1. so i would jus move along and shut the **** up ;)

You just owned yourself. You clearly said, "you said Tyson didn't hit hard enough". It clearly says there that THOSE punches didn't have that much power behind them. Which (for Mike Tyson), they didn't have much power behind them. You even agreed when you said, "but this was about speed, not power blah blah waaa"

Verstyle
06-07-2006, 11:19 PM
19 years old, working as a casual manager at a retail store. There you go, some more details. I don't see whats so funny? Everyone makes more money when they graduate with a degree. Except I will have two, from Monash University (the best in Australia)... so I wouldn't be laughing. What further education do you have?


1 better then your ass.ahahaha if boxing doesnt work for me i have other **** i can get into.20,000 a year aahaha still funny.and **** happens in years hpw u know u will get a degree.i'll see your ass at mcdonalds probably.wont know its u but u will know its me

Verstyle
06-07-2006, 11:22 PM
You just owned yourself. You clearly said, "you said Tyson didn't hit hard enough". It clearly says there that THOSE punches didn't have that much power behind them. Which (for Mike Tyson), they didn't have much power behind them. You even agreed when you said, "but this was about speed, not power blah blah waaa"


uhhhhhhh that didnt make since at all kid :confused: u said tyson did punch all that hard. thats what im stating and your stating? i honestly think your a confused person? maybe the only makin 20,000 a year and posting it got to your head ahahaha.20,000 a year ahahaha. my homeboy makes more then u workin at mcdonalds

hellfire508
06-07-2006, 11:22 PM
1 better then your ass.ahahaha if boxing doesnt work for me i have other **** i can get into.20,000 a year aahaha still funny.and **** happens in years hpw u know u will get a degree.i'll see your ass at mcdonalds probably.wont know its u but u will know its me

Considering I graduated from high school less than a year ago, 20,000 is decent money (while I'm still a full-time student). And at this stage, I have a distinction average in all my subjects. Considering that's MORE than enough to go for honours, and then a PHD, I'm pretty confident in myself.

And the job I have now, a first-level management position, earns more in a month than someone McDonalds does in a year. So I don't see what you're on about.

hellfire508
06-07-2006, 11:24 PM
uhhhhhhh that didnt make since at all kid :confused: u said tyson did punch all that hard. thats what im stating and your stating? i honestly think your a confused person? maybe the only makin 20,000 a year and posting it got to your head ahahaha.20,000 a year ahahaha. my homeboy makes more then u workin at mcdonalds

I said THOSE punches in the video weren't hard for HIM. Get it? Shall I spell it for you? Is english your second language?

Wow, must be a decent McDonald's outlet. Your "homeboy" is working at McDonalds? HAHAHA! He must work there full time to get that sort of money! Wow, he is going big places.

Verstyle
06-07-2006, 11:24 PM
Considering I graduated from high school less than a year ago, 20,000 is decent money (while I'm still a full-time student). And at this stage, I have a distinction average in all my subjects. Considering that's MORE than enough to go for honours, and then a PHD, I'm pretty confident in myself.

And the job I have now, a first-level management position, earns more in a month than someone McDonalds does in a year. So I don't see what you're on about.


u wanna bet. i can ask my friend to let me take a pic of his check stub jus to make u look dumb

hellfire508
06-07-2006, 11:25 PM
u wanna bet. i can ask my friend to let me take a pic of his check stub jus to make u look dumb

Well what position does he have at McDonalds? If it is less than a managerial position, then yes, I don't believe you. Show me the cheque.

Verstyle
06-07-2006, 11:27 PM
I said THOSE punches in the video weren't hard for HIM. Get it? Shall I spell it for you? Is english your second language?

Wow, must be a decent McDonald's outlet. Your "homeboy" is working at McDonalds? HAHAHA! He must work there full time to get that sort of money! Wow, he is going big places.


u said the punches dont have much power. do i have to make a poll to make u look even more dumb by me askin ppl what u said :rolleyes: and obviously reading is something u cant do. no wonder why u only makin 20,000 a year ahahaha

and your going big places u work at a retail store for godsake :eek:

Verstyle
06-07-2006, 11:28 PM
Well what position does he have at McDonalds? If it is less than a managerial position, then yes, I don't believe you. Show me the cheque.

he's a manager. but the point is u made fun saying he cant make more money then u workin at mcdonalds

hellfire508
06-07-2006, 11:29 PM
u said the punches dont have much power. do i have to make a poll to make u look even more dumb by me askin ppl what u said :rolleyes: and obviously reading is something u cant do. no wonder why u only makin 20,000 a year ahahaha

and your going big places u work at a retail store for godsake :eek:

LMAO! I obviously don't understand what full-time student means? Don't they have a "college" in the hood, bro?

Make a poll, see if I care. It says that's why I said, but in every other post I've said they weren't hard for HIM. Believe what you want.

Oh, and post up the cheque please.

hellfire508
06-07-2006, 11:30 PM
he's a manager. but the point is u made fun saying he cant make more money then u workin at mcdonalds

He can't, if he works the same hours as me. McDonald's is slave labour. But, if he is a manager then that's different.

Verstyle
06-07-2006, 11:32 PM
LMAO! I obviously don't understand what full-time student means? Don't they have a "college" in the hood, bro?

Make a poll, see if I care. It says that's why I said, but in every other post I've said they weren't hard for HIM. Believe what you want.

Oh, and post up the cheque please.


there u go with the hood comment. well i see the ban coming soon :rolleyes: .

and i dont give a **** what u said in every post i had to correct your dumb ass for even think tyson wasnt hitting hard and u slowly started changing your answer ahahaha. cant deny it cause its in the thread

hellfire508
06-07-2006, 11:37 PM
there u go with the hood comment. well i see the ban coming soon :rolleyes: .

and i dont give a **** what u said in every post i had to correct your dumb ass for even think tyson wasnt hitting hard and u slowly started changing your answer ahahaha. cant deny it cause its in the thread

Well if you're gonna act gangsta, expect to be addressed as one. You are the one that seems to think its discriminatory, its not inteneded to be.

And I haven't changed my story. I left out "for him" in the original post. Big deal. If you wanna worship Tyson, you continue doing so. Mike Tyson hit HARD, and he had damn fast hands. But Ali's handspeed ****s all over his. He punched at full length of his arms, on the outside, and still punched faster than Tyson's short-range shots. Face it.

Yogi
06-07-2006, 11:41 PM
Instead of censoring the word "Leon" on this here site, maybe the powers that be should switch that around and make "Tyson" a censored word on here...Just an idea, seeing as how the vast majority of flame wars in this section are started as a result of it/him being mentioned.

Verstyle
06-07-2006, 11:43 PM
Well if you're gonna act gangsta, expect to be addressed as one. You are the one that seems to think its discriminatory, its not inteneded to be.

And I haven't changed my story. I left out "for him" in the original post. Big deal. If you wanna worship Tyson, you continue doing so. Mike Tyson hit HARD, and he had damn fast hands. But Ali's handspeed ****s all over his. He punched at full length of his arms, on the outside, and still punched faster than Tyson's short-range shots. Face it.


when has cursing become acting "gansta" :rolleyes: so i guess every1 is "gansta"then. nope sounds like your a stereotyping racist to me.cause im sure u wouldnt have told a white guy that he's "gangsta" cause he cursed ;)

hellfire508
06-07-2006, 11:45 PM
when has cursing become acting "gansta" :rolleyes: so i guess every1 is "gansta"then. nope sounds like your a stereotyping racist to me.cause im sure u wouldnt have told a white guy that he's "gangsta" cause he cursed ;)

It's not the "cursing". You said "homeboy". You said "*****". Who calls people a *****? They are words gangstas use. I certainly don't call my mates "homeboys". LOL

hellfire508
06-07-2006, 11:45 PM
Oh, you called me "*****". You wouldn't say that to a black guy. You are a racist.

Verstyle
06-07-2006, 11:48 PM
It's not the "cursing". You said "homeboy". You said "*****". Who calls people a *****? They are words gangstas use. I certainly don't call my mates "homeboys". LOL

who doesnt call ppl *****? sounds like some1 is scrambling to cover his stereotyping remarks.and homeboy i've heard blacks,whites,hispanics say that. but since im black and i use the word how boy i automatically have a gun and live in the hook :rolleyes: sounds like stereotyping to me ;)

Verstyle
06-07-2006, 11:49 PM
Oh, you called me "*****". You wouldn't say that to a black guy. You are a racist.


i wouldnt call some1 black a *****. :confused: keep digging your hole deeper

hellfire508
06-07-2006, 11:54 PM
who doesnt call ppl *****? sounds like some1 is scrambling to cover his stereotyping remarks.and homeboy i've heard blacks,whites,hispanics say that. but since im black and i use the word how boy i automatically have a gun and live in the hook :rolleyes: sounds like stereotyping to me ;)

If you have to play the racism card to get out of an argument, that's your perogative. Personally, I've never heard ANYONE say "homeboy" other than gangstas. It's the biggest try hard **** I've ever heard. And yes, I automatically assume people who are try-hard gangstas have a gun, as that is the message conveyed in the majority of film texts nowadays. I don't live in any areas with try-hard gangstas (except for some Cambodian gangs), so I wouldn't know what goes on other than what I see in movies. lol

Verstyle
06-07-2006, 11:59 PM
If you have to play the racism card to get out of an argument, that's your perogative. Personally, I've never heard ANYONE say "homeboy" other than gangstas. It's the biggest try hard **** I've ever heard. And yes, I automatically assume people who are try-hard gangstas have a gun, as that is the message conveyed in the majority of film texts nowadays. I don't live in any areas with try-hard gangstas (except for some Cambodian gangs), so I wouldn't know what goes on other than what I see in movies. lol


so if u see. arnold as a robot in terminator 2 r u going to believe the governor of california is a robot? jus cause u hear things dont make it true. i dont even know your race or ask for it cause it has no concern to me or ne body in a boxing forum.

and playing the racist card to get out of an argument? i already made my arguement. but what bothered me is that u had to continue to go back to the stereotyping. i tried to let it go the first time but u kept at it.

and u never heard ppl say homeboy besides gangstas? u sir need to get out more

sleazyfellow
06-08-2006, 01:00 AM
ur all gansta in here, quit it else me and my homeslices gonna slice u up! but naw really i cuss everyday at least 100 times, ****en this, ****en that, everything has that attached to it when im talking with freinds

Verstyle
06-08-2006, 01:03 AM
ur all gansta in here, quit it else me and my homeslices gonna slice u up! but naw really i cuss everyday at least 100 times, ****en this, ****en that, everything has that attached to it when im talking with freinds


since your cursing it means you gangsta. so u gangsta now :rolleyes:

Yogi
06-08-2006, 01:09 AM
so if u see. arnold as a robot in terminator 2 r u going to believe the governor of california is a robot? jus cause u hear things dont make it true. i dont even know your race or ask for it cause it has no concern to me or ne body in a boxing forum.

and playing the racist card to get out of an argument? i already made my arguement. but what bothered me is that u had to continue to go back to the stereotyping. i tried to let it go the first time but u kept at it.

and u never heard ppl say homeboy besides gangstas? u sir need to get out more

C'mon, moit...all Aussies droink Fostas in coise yuu didn't knew that.

Verstyle
06-08-2006, 01:12 AM
C'mon, moit...all Aussies droink Fostas in coise yuu didn't knew that.


ahaha. im tellin arnold :cool:

Yogi
06-08-2006, 01:17 AM
ahaha. im tellin arnold :cool:

Oh ****! :(

That post was made to poke a little friendly fun at Hellfire, seeing as how he is Australian...Honestly. :o

Heckler
06-08-2006, 01:23 AM
C'mon, moit...all Aussies droink Fostas in coise yuu didn't knew that.

Aussies are strange... some drink room temperature beer.. even worse then Fosters is Victoria bitter. Us New Zealanders are a much more normal bunch.

Heckler
06-08-2006, 01:28 AM
so if u see. arnold as a robot in terminator 2 r u going to believe the governor of california is a robot? jus cause u hear things dont make it true. i dont even know your race or ask for it cause it has no concern to me or ne body in a boxing forum.

and playing the racist card to get out of an argument? i already made my arguement. but what bothered me is that u had to continue to go back to the stereotyping. i tried to let it go the first time but u kept at it.

and u never heard ppl say homeboy besides gangstas? u sir need to get out more

I have the right to judge.. i aqquired my PHD in thuganomics thankyou.

Verstyle
06-08-2006, 01:31 AM
isnt that the most stupidish **** you've heard. if u curse alot and use ***** your a gangsta :rolleyes:

Yogi
06-08-2006, 01:43 AM
Aussies are strange... some drink room temperature beer.. even worse then Fosters is Victoria bitter. Us New Zealanders are a much more normal bunch.

They may be a little bit strange (aren't we all?), but in my encounters with them I have found them to be really good people...My wife & I were friends with an Australian couple back a few years ago, and way back when I had a landlady that was Australian and she was a sweetheart, I thought.

Tam-Tam may be only slightly off his rocker (ok, a HUGE understatement, I know...don't tell him I said that either, Jakob), but I don't think he should be judged as the typical Aussie, especially when he has the audacity to claim that he doesn't even drink Fosters.

Heckler
06-08-2006, 02:23 AM
Yeah nothing wrong with the Aussies... i guess :) . Our relationship with Aussies is similar to the America-Canada relationship... a little less hate maybe. I piss off a fair few canadians by asking what part of America they're from. I seriously cannot distinguish between an American accent and a Canadian one.

I get just as pissed off when im in the states and someone asks what part of Australia im from.

**** im ranting again, best put down the beer.

By the way, how did you identify my awesome Alter-ego?

hellfire508
06-08-2006, 02:23 AM
Aussies are strange... some drink room temperature beer.. even worse then Fosters is Victoria bitter. Us New Zealanders are a much more normal bunch.

Really? I've never seen ANY Aussies drink room temp beer? As far as I know that's the British that do that. Fosters is ****. VB is good out of the tap, but **** in stubbies. Crown Lager is all I think from stubbies, and Carlton Draught out of the tap.

hellfire508
06-08-2006, 02:24 AM
isnt that the most stupidish **** you've heard. if u curse alot and use ***** your a gangsta :rolleyes:

You act like such a child. Seriously, grow up.

hellfire508
06-08-2006, 02:26 AM
C'mon, moit...all Aussies droink Fostas in coise yuu didn't knew that.

I see you've fallen victim to the common misconception that all Aussies speak like some bushy from Alice Springs? Much like all the yanks speak like someone from Texas?

Verstyle
06-08-2006, 02:27 AM
You act like such a child. Seriously, grow up.


why dont u grow up and realize there arnt jus bad black ppl with guns,there r some that make money and have a real job.i've never fired a gun or lived in the hood in my life and for u to stereotype some1 like that cause i said homeboy is plain rediculous

Verstyle
06-08-2006, 02:28 AM
I see you've fallen victim to the common misconception that all Aussies speak like some bushy from Alice Springs? Much like all the yanks speak like someone from Texas?


wow. seems like he's mocking u with the stereotyping u like to use :rolleyes: isnt fun to be stereotyped is it

hellfire508
06-08-2006, 02:30 AM
why dont u grow up and realize there arnt jus bad black ppl with guns,there r some that make money and have a real job.i've never fired a gun or lived in the hood in my life and for u to stereotype some1 like that cause i said homeboy is plain rediculous

LOL? when did I ever say anything like that about black people? G-A-N-G-S-T-A-S. The one thing I don't like about alot of black people, (this is a generalisation - because there are tonnes that dont), is that they so often claim racism. If I had a dollar for everytime I get called "skip" or "cracker" or anything like that by our ethnic population, I would be a very rich man. But I never play the race card. Stop trying to claim you are being abused because of your race. I'm abusing you because you're an dick, get it?

hellfire508
06-08-2006, 02:30 AM
wow. seems like he's mocking u with the stereotyping u like to use :rolleyes: isnt fun to be stereotyped is it

Except for the fact that I don't give a ****, and cry about it. I was just correcting his misconception.

:rolleyes:

Verstyle
06-08-2006, 02:33 AM
Except for the fact that I don't give a ****, and cry about it. I was just correcting his misconception.

:rolleyes:


u r slow.I'LL SAY IT IN CAPITALS AND SLOW. HEEEEEEEEE WAAAAAAAAAASSSSSSS MAAAAAAAAAAAAAKIIIIIIIIIING FUUUUUUUUUUUUUNN OOOOOOOOOF UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU.HEEEEEEEEEEEEEE KNEWWWWWWWWWWWWWW WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEENT

Verstyle
06-08-2006, 02:35 AM
LOL? when did I ever say anything like that about black people? G-A-N-G-S-T-A-S. The one thing I don't like about alot of black people, (this is a generalisation - because there are tonnes that dont), is that they so often claim racism. If I had a dollar for everytime I get called "skip" or "cracker" or anything like that by our ethnic population, I would be a very rich man. But I never play the race card. Stop trying to claim you are being abused because of your race. I'm abusing you because you're an dick, get it?


using stereotyping my calling me a gangsta and living in the hood and carrying a gun isnt some racist ****?

Yogi
06-08-2006, 02:37 AM
By the way, how did you identify my awesome Alter-ego?

That's simply because I'm smarter than the aaaaverage bear!

hellfire508
06-08-2006, 02:37 AM
u r slow.I'LL SAY IT IN CAPITALS AND SLOW. HEEEEEEEEE WAAAAAAAAAASSSSSSS MAAAAAAAAAAAAAKIIIIIIIIIING FUUUUUUUUUUUUUNN OOOOOOOOOF UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU.HEEEEEEEEEEEEEE KNEWWWWWWWWWWWWWW WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEENT

And? Am I supposed to jump up and cry "discrimination!"? Rather than cry about it, I told him the truth, which proved what he was using to make fun of me with as false. Geez, you are slow.

Verstyle
06-08-2006, 02:40 AM
And? Am I supposed to jump up and cry "discrimination!"? Rather than cry about it, I told him the truth, which proved what he was using to make fun of me with as false. Geez, you are slow.


no your slow dumbass. wonder why u only makin 20,000ahahaha. of course he knew it was false. thats what a stereotype is something that is believed by many about a race but is false.im pretty sure he knew that ;)

hellfire508
06-08-2006, 02:41 AM
using stereotyping my calling me a gangsta and living in the hood and carrying a gun isnt some racist ****?

Exactly. The stereotype of someone who thinks they are gangsta, is that they live in the "hood", carry a gun etc. You've never seen gangstas portrayed like that? Wow, you must be deprived of film and television where you live.

And before you start whinging about "blah blah you believe everything you see on TV". Well, quite frankly, what else can we do? We're presented with media texts portraying the world every day, and we base our "knowledge" on what we are shown. We can only base our interpretations, and therefore conclusions/judgements, on what we are shown. And it doesn't help with the American Rap industry further pushing this stereotype. So, without visiting Detroit or whatever personally, I can only go by what I'm presented. Much like you can only judge the War in Iraq by what the news shows you etc.

hellfire508
06-08-2006, 02:42 AM
no your slow dumbass. wonder why u only makin 20,000ahahaha. of course he knew it was false. thats what a stereotype is something that is believed by many about a race but is false.im pretty sure he knew that ;)

Actually, stereotypes are quite often true. They are just generalisations of a race/group, or whatever. However, they are wrong sometimes too.

How old are you by the way?

Verstyle
06-08-2006, 02:42 AM
Exactly. The stereotype of someone who thinks they are gangsta, is that they live in the "hood", carry a gun etc. You've never seen gangstas portrayed like that? Wow, you must be deprived of film and television where you live.

And before you start whinging about "blah blah you believe everything you see on TV". Well, quite frankly, what else can we do? We're presented with media texts portraying the world every day, and we base our "knowledge" on what we are shown. We can only base our interpretations, and therefore conclusions/judgements, on what we are shown. And it doesn't help with the American Rap industry further pushing this stereotype. So, without visiting Detroit or whatever personally, I can only go by what I'm presented. Much like you can only judge the War in Iraq by what the news shows you etc.

so since i know autralians have kangaroos am i suppost to believe u guys ride on them and have them as bets. and like hunting for crocs?

and who the hell said i think im gangsta? all that stuff u named is what u stereotyped me with dumbass :rolleyes:

hellfire508
06-08-2006, 02:44 AM
im not even going to read it im jus going to say. go get some sleep cause the more u type the more your not maikin since.

It's probably best you don't read it, because your limited intelligence couldn't comprehend a paragraph with words with more than six letters.

And its not even 5pm, why would I sleep?

Oh, I think you're trying to say "making sense". I'm not sure how "Since" fits in under that context.. Must be an American thing?

Verstyle
06-08-2006, 02:48 AM
Actually, stereotypes are quite often true. They are just generalisations of a race/group, or whatever. However, they are wrong sometimes too.

How old are you by the way?


u wanna bet? do all mexican eat tacos? no i actually know some that dont. it is something ppl that is true. oh my god your a 10th grader. and im 21 son

hellfire508
06-08-2006, 02:51 AM
u wanna bet? do all mexican eat tacos? no i actually know some that dont. it is something ppl that is true. oh my god your a 10th grader. and im 21 son

Ok cool. Considering I'm turning 19 soon, I would HOPE you earn more than me.

And no, not all Mexicans eat Tacos. Like you said, you know SOME that don't. Like I clearly said, its a "generalisation". Do you know what that word means? It accounts for what alot of them do. And like I said (again), some stereotypes are true, others are not.

Yogi
06-08-2006, 02:51 AM
I see you've fallen victim to the common misconception that all Aussies speak like some bushy from Alice Springs? Much like all the yanks speak like someone from Texas?

Umm...okey, dokey.

Heckler
06-08-2006, 02:51 AM
Really? I've never seen ANY Aussies drink room temp beer? As far as I know that's the British that do that. Fosters is ****. VB is good out of the tap, but **** in stubbies. Crown Lager is all I think from stubbies, and Carlton Draught out of the tap.

VB is ****en horrible... i went to bathurst and thats all they were selling. I can't drink crown either. When i went to aussie last year i met a few that were drinking room temp VB lol... i assumed it was the norm. At the exception of Lion Red i drink import beer Becks, Stella Artois, Heinekin.

Verstyle
06-08-2006, 02:53 AM
Ok cool. Considering I'm turning 19 soon, I would HOPE you earn more than me.

And no, not all Mexicans eat Tacos. Like you said, you know SOME that don't. Like I clearly said, its a "generalisation". Do you know what that word means? It accounts for what alot of them do. And like I said (again), some stereotypes are true, others are not.


i earned more then u when i was 18 workin for wal-mart distribution center makin 16.20 an hour. give me a stereotype thats true

hellfire508
06-08-2006, 02:55 AM
i earned more then u when i was 18 workin for wal-mart distribution center makin 16.20 an hour. give me a stereotype thats true

Well I get $21 an hour, and usually work 18-20 hours a week. I'm also a full-time student, so.... if I went fulltime, I would get $40,000 a year in a ****hole job. So its actually decent.

hellfire508
06-08-2006, 02:57 AM
VB is ****en horrible... i went to bathurst and thats all they were selling. I can't drink crown either. When i went to aussie last year i met a few that were drinking room temp VB lol... i assumed it was the norm. At the exception of Lion Red i drink import beer Becks, Stella Artois, Heinekin.

I would spew if I drank warm beer. Yeah people are either the import beer drinkers, or the aussie type (VB, draught, Crownies etc). I personally can't drink much of imported, I can have one or two only, before I start lookin for a draught tap.

Verstyle
06-08-2006, 02:58 AM
Well I get $21 an hour, and usually work 18-20 hours a week. I'm also a full-time student, so.... if I went fulltime, I would get $40,000 a year in a ****hole job. So its actually decent.


u work to much.and i made 26,000 a year.

hellfire508
06-08-2006, 03:01 AM
u work to much.and i made 26,000 a year.

Well that's 30 hours a week... so how am I working too much?

Verstyle
06-08-2006, 03:02 AM
Well that's 30 hours a week... so how am I working too much?


30hours at a retail store is very long. i know

Dempsey 1919
06-08-2006, 03:04 AM
Can't we all get along? :D

Verstyle
06-08-2006, 03:05 AM
Can't we all get along? :D


shutup butterfly

Yogi
06-08-2006, 03:06 AM
16 something an hour?

21 bucks an hour?

:eek:

****, I think this old fart was born about 20 years too soon, as I can remember making only about six bucks an hour back when I was 18 years-old...And ****, I thought I was rich making $200 per week.

Then again, from memory a dozen beer only cost somewhere between 7 and 8 bucks at the time.

Dempsey 1919
06-08-2006, 03:06 AM
shutup butterfly

Does someone need a hug? :D

hellfire508
06-08-2006, 03:07 AM
30hours at a retail store is very long. i know

No, I mean to earn 26,000 you must have been working 30 hours a week. So why did you tell me I was working too much at 18 hours? Sometimes I only work 15 and do Sundays instead, which is obviously better pay.

And do you think we should stop wasting this thread space?

hellfire508
06-08-2006, 03:07 AM
16 something an hour?

21 bucks an hour?

:eek:

****, I think this old fart was born about 20 years too soon, as I can remember making only about six bucks an hour back when I was 18 years-old...And ****, I thought I was rich making $200 per week.

Then again, from memory a dozen beer only cost somewhere between 7 and 8 bucks at the time.

I guess income has to rise according to inflation.

Verstyle
06-08-2006, 03:07 AM
16 something an hour?

21 bucks an hour?

:eek:

****, I think this old fart was born about 20 years too soon, as I can remember making only about six bucks an hour back when I was 18 years-old...And ****, I thought I was rich making $200 per week.

Then again, from memory a dozen beer only cost somewhere between 7 and 8 bucks at the time.


yeah your old.ahahah now im 21 makin 1,000 a week imagine that **** in the 80s :D :eek:

Yogi
06-08-2006, 03:08 AM
Does someone need a hug? :D

Shutup Butterfly!

Yogi
06-08-2006, 03:09 AM
I guess income has to rise according to inflation.

I don't drink anymore and haven't for a long ass time, but...What does a dozen beer cost nowadays, do you know?

Dempsey 1919
06-08-2006, 03:10 AM
Shutup Butterfly!

Hey, I'm just trying to lighten things up. :o Oh by the way...

Click on this (http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1537961#post1537961)

hellfire508
06-08-2006, 03:12 AM
I don't drink anymore and haven't for a long ass time, but...What does a dozen beer cost nowadays, do you know?

Hmm, I don't usually buy by the dozen. But from memory, Crown Lager (what I drink) is about $27 AU for 12. Which is just over 20 bucks US.

Yogi
06-08-2006, 03:13 AM
Hey, I'm just trying to lighten things up. :o

Yeah, I know...I tried the same thing too.

:grouphug:

Verstyle
06-08-2006, 03:14 AM
Hey, I'm just trying to lighten things up. :o Oh by the way...

Click on this (http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1537961#post1537961)


no1 wants to see that **** :mad: and

shut up butterfly :mad:

hellfire508
06-08-2006, 03:15 AM
no1 wants to see that **** :mad: and

shut up butterfly :mad:

Butterfly, are people supposed to vote? Or do you just decide the outcome?

Yogi
06-08-2006, 03:15 AM
Hmm, I don't usually buy by the dozen. But from memory, Crown Lager (what I drink) is about $27 AU for 12. Which is just over 20 bucks US.

Wow, that much, hey?

hellfire508
06-08-2006, 03:16 AM
Wow, that much, hey?

Yeah its bull****.

hellfire508
06-08-2006, 03:21 AM
Anyways, I'm off to study for an exam. Got it 9.30 tomorrow morning, and i havent done ****. I'll probably get bored and come back later tonight. laters

Dempsey 1919
06-08-2006, 03:27 AM
no1 wants to see that **** :mad: and

shut up butterfly :mad:

I'll just give you some time to cool off. ;)

Yaman
06-08-2006, 08:47 AM
Damn. This threads was so cool in the beginning.