in light of seeing the "punchers are born" thing over and over, i'd like to submit a few quotes from Championship Fighting by jack dempsey. in particular, from the chapter titled "punchers are made; not born." enjoy!

"Louis retired as undefeated heavyweight champion in 1949. And I'll bet that, as he retired, Joe considered himself a natural-born puncher. I know that's probably true because i had the same mistaken idea about myself during my career and for a time after i hung up my gloves.
If you're a punching champion it's natural for you to get the wrong appreciation of yourself. Hundreds of admirers pat you on the back and tell you what a "natural-born" fighter you are. And when you're swept along toward seventh heaven by the roar of the crowd in your magnificent moments of triumph, it's easy to forget the painstaking labor with which you and your instructors and trainers and sparring partners fashioned each step in the stairway to your throne. It's easy to forget the dissapointments and despair that, at times, made the uncompleted stairway look like "Heartbreak Hill." Ah yes, when you're on the throne, it's easy to regard yourself as one who was born to the royalty of the ring."
"It was only after I had retired and had begun trying to teach others how to fight that I investigated the steps in the stairway - analyzed my own technique."
"You see: by the time a fellow becomes a successful professional fighter, nearly all of his moves are so instinctive, through long practice, that it's difficult for him to sort out the details of each move. Accordingly, it's nearly impossible - at first - for him to explain his moves to a beginner. He can say to the beginner, "You throw a straight right like this." Then he can shoot a straight right at a punching bag. But the beginner will have no more conception of how to punch with the right than he had before. That's the chief reason why so few good fighters developed into good instructors. They failed to go back and examine each little link in each boxing move. They tried to give their pupils the chains without the links."
"My investigation took me on a long mental journey as I followed my fighting trail through the west, where i had worked at any job I could get in mines, lumber camps, hash-houses, on ranches, etc. I was fighting on the side in those days, and i was getting pointers on self defense from all the old-timers i met. Each trainer, each manager, each fighter had his own ideas and his own specialties. Like a blotter on legs, I absorbed all that information I could in those days, and then discarded what seemed wrong."
"The geographic investigation of my own technique really humbled me. It hit me right on the chin with the booming fact that since I was six years old, I'd had the opportunity to learn punching from a long parade of guys who had studied it."


so there's a few quotes from jack's own point of view. i didn't write the whole chapter, of course, but the bulk of 'it' you can get from the snippets above. please feel free to discuss, this could be an interesting thread.

good stuff bro

good stuff bro

Yea I think you used to spend most of your time in the MMA forum but its nice to have you around the boxing section. You have good insights.

punching is like anything else, some ppl are just naturally harder hitters and sum ppl cudnt squash a grape, but every1 can improve

Sure, anybody can learn to hit harder, especially if they practice all the time, but true punchers are naturals, but can be developed if they have the talent and proper instruction. Emmanual Steward is famous for taking light punchers and developing power. Look at Klitschko's last fight with Steward his trainer for some time....

punching with power is both nature and nuture but i have so say it seems to be mostly nature but anyone can improve on what they have got

Sure, anybody can learn to hit harder, especially if they practice all the time, but true punchers are naturals, but can be developed if they have the talent and proper instruction. Emmanual Steward is famous for taking light punchers and developing power. Look at Klitschko's last fight with Steward his trainer for some time....


that makes no sense. klit has always been known for his power, 41 of his 46 wins are by KO. If anything, Steward helped him be an even better boxer than he was and got him to not rely so heavily on knocking someone out, i.e. he moves around the ring really good for a guy his size, doesn't punch himself out when he has someone hurt, and doesn't fold in the later rounds anymore

Like what has already been said, people have natural hard punches, some people soft. But everyone can improve greatly with training.


:boxing:

they say 10% genetics and 90% is hard work.

some people are born powerful but are lazy so they loss example Tyson and some a born normal and maybe weak but train to become very powerful like Marconiy

they say 10% genetics and 90% is hard work.

some people are born powerful but are lazy so they loss example Tyson and some a born normal and maybe weak but train to become very powerful like Marconiy


isn't it 80% mental and 30% physical?

hey eazy_mas, ur talkin about actual boxing. the question was punching nor boxing, and in punching its not 10% genetics and 90% hard work. u cud train every single day and still be an average or weak puncher.

Not true at all pugnacious, when i started boxing my punches were slow and awkward, now theyre fast smooth and technical. I really doubt im born with a boxing ability since im the only athletic person in my family. All you need is a good trainer to have good punches.

once you reach the professional level, genetics start to play a pretty big role as most will reach the extent that training can give them. but in the amatuers, everyone improves ALOT.

isn't it 80% mental and 30% physical?

Haha, that adds up to 110%! :D

The old genetics vs. environment argument... Everybody's throwing percentages around like they know shit. If it was that easy, don't you think there'd be an accepted number written in stone by now?

I believe (since I don't KNOW), that it's a very individual thing. Some people can just bang from the start, while some can be light hitters for years, and then finally figure out how to punch harder. Some punchers are born, some are made. Maybe :D

Haha, that adds up to 110%! :D




I know............yogi berra was famous for saying it


That's what makes it so funny

and that was my take on it, this is his actual quote

"Baseball is 90% mental , the other half is physical."

I'm Danish, so I didn't know that. Funny stuff though. :)

Not true at all pugnacious, when i started boxing my punches were slow and awkward, now theyre fast smooth and technical. I really doubt im born with a boxing ability since im the only athletic person in my family. All you need is a good trainer to have good punches.

hey man, a born puncher doesnt always have to be a guy who punches hard from the beginning, a hard puncher is also a guy who has a natural aptitude for punching. so the ppl who punch weak in the beginning and punch hard later had the apptitude but there still born punchers coz its genetics. u cant make something that was never there, by practising ur punching ur just reavealing ur natural power. and how do u know ur not born with aboxing ability, u cud be, atheltics has nutin to do with it

once you reach the professional level, genetics start to play a pretty big role as most will reach the extent that training can give them. but in the amatuers, everyone improves ALOT.


What he said.

At the professional level where everyone trains to their fullest extent pretty much, genetics are what gives you the edge.

did anybody even read my post? or did ya guys just state your own personal opinions?


let me rephrase - do you think dempsey is full of shit?

my personal opinion, from reading numerous books on him(especially championship fighting where he talks about his method of punching) and viewing many of his fights, and also from my own experience, i tend to think that he is dead on about this topic.

At the professional level where everyone trains to their fullest extent pretty much, genetics are what gives you the edge.

definitely disagree. a hard puncher with minimal skills doesn't usually beat a well trained, fundamentally sound boxer with minimal power.

I disagree with Dempsey. I think you can be a natural born puncher. Kind of like George Foreman for example, he didnt have much technique.

I disagree with Dempsey. I think you can be a natural born puncher. Kind of like George Foreman for example, he didnt have much technique.

I think that has more to do with mentality. The reason that some people dont have much power is because they are mentally not ready to throw with power. They are to afraid of committing to a shot because of something that might get thrown back so they dont do it 100%. Infact they may not even know that they arent putting 100% but some people dont. People like Foreman and Tyson dont have any hesitation and punch harder.

disagree with Dempsey. I think you can be a natural born puncher. Kind of like George Foreman for example, he didnt have much technique.

lol! just curious, but what do you base your "natural born" punchers on?

my experience certainly tells me differently. when you get right down to what makes a powerfull punch, there's not a lot of room for genetics there.

I think that has more to do with mentality. The reason that some people dont have much power is because they are mentally not ready to throw with power. They are to afraid of committing to a shot because of something that might get thrown back so they dont do it 100%. Infact they may not even know that they arent putting 100% but some people dont. People like Foreman and Tyson dont have any hesitation and punch harder

interesting. well we are talking about jack, here's a quote from the book jack dempsey and the roaring 20s which is very similiar to what you wrote:

"dempsey on boxing, the great champion could convert any normal chap into a knockout puncher only if the fear in the normal chap did not run so wild as to make planned punching and tough defense impossible. it is hard to punch crisply and methodically while trembling.
put simply, it hurts too much to learn."

that actually completely parallels what konstantin wrote now that i look at both statements. you know, many top fighters have said that KO punching can be developed with practice. most of the top guys i've heard about or talked to had to "develope" power. and having hands on experience with some of them, i have no reason to doubt them.

alot of ppl can get a knockout punch ofcoarse in the ring coz dat requires timing and skill. but every1 knows that genetics has a role in everything, dats the same reason why one guy cant bench 100lbs and another guy is doing 300lbs. no1 has the same limit and dats the bottom line, everyone can improve but not every1 can have tyson power or ali speed

definitely disagree. a hard puncher with minimal skills doesn't usually beat a well trained, fundamentally sound boxer with minimal power.

Let me rephrase.


you got guy A and guy B

both do the exact same work outs for exact same periods of time.

they start off at teh same weight and are teh same height.

Who is gonna be the faster guy? The harder puncher? When both of them are same height, same weight...

The man whose genetics favour a given task.

If lets say both guys are 6 feet 185lb one is Scandinavian one is African and both have identical training Id expect the Scandinavian to be stronger and the African faster.

Agree? No?

Let me rephrase.


you got guy A and guy B

both do the exact same work outs for exact same periods of time.

they start off at teh same weight and are teh same height.

Who is gonna be the faster guy? The harder puncher? When both of them are same height, same weight...

The man whose genetics favour a given task.

If lets say both guys are 6 feet 185lb one is Scandinavian one is African and both have identical training Id expect the Scandinavian to be stronger and the African faster.

Agree? No?


This is correct but is in no way the point. Of course genetics play a role in governing who is the harder puncher between two men, but the question is, does genetics soley govern an athletes abilities

In which case the answer is no. Your genetics will govern if you can punch like tyson, but some in this thread make it sound like you're either a puncher from birth or your not and that's not true

Your genetics do state a limit to what you can become, but how do you ever know what your limit is unless you train your ass off? I used to be a very weak puncher, but through training can punch pretty damn hard now

Who is gonna be the faster guy? The harder puncher? When both of them are same height, same weight...

The man whose genetics favour a given task.


just how can you tell that the genetic make-up of a certain person allows them to punch harder?



If lets say both guys are 6 feet 185lb one is Scandinavian one is African and both have identical training Id expect the Scandinavian to be stronger and the African faster.

how the hell do you come to this conclusion?

this reminds me of some racist beliefs in early boxing - that black people have hard heads, weak stomachs, and are mentally underdeveloped - jack johnson started a change in that. also reminded me of the idea that white people can't jump for shit - brent barry seems to do pretty well. i'm not saying that your racist, just pointing out that your statement made me think about popular misconceptions about athletes throughout history.

alot of ppl can get a knockout punch ofcoarse in the ring coz dat requires timing and skill. but every1 knows that genetics has a role in everything, dats the same reason why one guy cant bench 100lbs and another guy is doing 300lbs. no1 has the same limit and dats the bottom line, everyone can improve but not every1 can have tyson power or ali speed

I agree with you there but if someone is natrually stronger and another is a hard worker then I would go for the hard worker.

for example Tyson vs Doglaus

Tyson was genetically stronger but really didnt work to improve in that match so dogulas won

just how can you tell that the genetic make-up of a certain person allows them to punch harder?





how the hell do you come to this conclusion?

this reminds me of some racist beliefs in early boxing - that black people have hard heads, weak stomachs, and are mentally underdeveloped - jack johnson started a change in that. also reminded me of the idea that white people can't jump for shit - brent barry seems to do pretty well. i'm not saying that your racist, just pointing out that your statement made me think about popular misconceptions about athletes throughout history.

Im sorry, I just believe to certain people certain things are more "natural"

call it whatever you want......a misconception or whatever....

In high school I could never jump as high as the black guys, doesnt mean that a Ukranian cant jump...but I could certainly lift the most in my grade.

And I see a lot of it.

I say this from experiance...how true it is on a world scale I dont know.

just how can you tell that the genetic make-up of a certain person allows them to punch harder?


mate Im not taliking about punching alone.


Just in general. Strength, power, speed...

I believe that geneticaly certain things come to different people easier.


How hard someone punches invovles way too many factors to say that someone is a harder puncher.

Punching is all about physics. And if you know physics you know that that a 5 degree difference in an angle can make a big difference.

I believe that punching is all about technique, but that technique is difficult to master.

And some people are just born lucky to know how to throw hard instinticly.

they say 10% genetics and 90% is hard work.

some people are born powerful but are lazy so they loss example Tyson and some a born normal and maybe weak but train to become very powerful like Marconiy


oh thats a lie. i hardly workout and i still hit pretty damn hard if i can say so myself

same with me i have not lifted wieghts very much in like 5 months and i have huge arms and i hit very hard

oh thats a lie. i hardly workout and i still hit pretty damn hard if i can say so myself

True...


confirming that fact that a lot of simply comes from natural ability.

You can train someone to hit hard.


But some people hit hard straight out of diapers.