View Full Version : Weight Training Help...


-GBGQ-
05-17-2006, 12:23 AM
I currently train (box) Monday, Wednesday, and Friday.
I'm looking for a good weight training regimen to to on tuesdays and thursdays.

All of the weight training I've done before was just for size and cuts. Anyone know of any exercises to do that are more boxing oriented?

Obviously when I lift heavy my hands don't feel as fast.

Kayo
05-17-2006, 12:32 AM
Stick to exercises like Bench Press,Dumbell Press, Military Press,Squats and Rows

-GBGQ-
05-17-2006, 12:38 AM
Stick to exercises like Bench Press,Dumbell Press, Military Press,Squats and Rows

My usual plan is
Chest and Biceps
Back and Triceps
Shoulders and Legs

Afterwards I tend to feel bulkier than I'd like to when I box. Is the key just to go lighter and more reps?

Kayo
05-17-2006, 01:02 AM
My usual plan is
Chest and Biceps
Back and Triceps
Shoulders and Legs

Afterwards I tend to feel bulkier than I'd like to when I box. Is the key just to go lighter and more reps?
light weight and more reps is how you bulk..
you wanna be lifting high weight low reps for strength

oliverlt
05-17-2006, 01:10 AM
light weight and more reps is how you bulk..
you wanna be lifting high weight low reps for strength


light weight more reps is for muscle toning (getting cut).
High weight low reps is for strength and bulk


strength training will slow you down though cause it tightens your muscles, body weight exercises are good for boxers cause your muscles will be loose.

Kayo
05-17-2006, 01:34 AM
light weight more reps is for muscle toning (getting cut).
High weight low reps is for strength and bulk


strength training will slow you down though cause it tightens your muscles, body weight exercises are good for boxers cause your muscles will be loose.

low weight high reps so rep ranges 8-12 will get you SIZE
High Weight Low reps 5-7 gets you STRENGTH

oliverlt
05-17-2006, 01:36 AM
low weight high reps so rep ranges 8-12 will get you SIZE
High Weight Low reps 5-7 gets you STRENGTH


Low weight high reps will tone your muscles down not bulk you up
to build mass do 3-5 sets of 4-7 reps, to tone muscle do 4-5 sets of 12-15 reps

Kayo
05-17-2006, 01:44 AM
Low weight high reps will tone your muscles down not bulk you up
do some research bud thats the mind set of a female grade 9 p.e teacher

oliverlt
05-17-2006, 01:51 AM
do some research bud thats the mind set of a female grade 9 p.e teacher


just google it. It is different for men and women, and it depends on your body but it is common knowledge that less weight and high reps tone you while high weight less reps adds strength. If you were right why are all the lightweights doing pushups and other bodyweight exercises and not bulking up. Should Pacman bench 300 to gain strength I mean according to you doing bodyweight exercises Pacman will be a middleweight before long.

Kayo
05-17-2006, 02:41 AM
just google it. It is different for men and women, and it depends on your body but it is common knowledge that less weight and high reps tone you while high weight less reps adds strength. If you were right why are all the lightweights doing pushups and other bodyweight exercises and not bulking up. Should Pacman bench 300 to gain strength I mean according to you doing bodyweight exercises Pacman will be a middleweight before long.
key word bodyweight exercises and weight lifting are two very different things.

PunchDrunk
05-17-2006, 07:02 AM
I'm with Kayo here. What he said is exactly right.
Oliverlt you don't know what the **** you're talking about. Do you wear pink legwarmers and work your inner thighs with Jane Fonda? :D
Everyone should do bodyweight exercises. Heavy weight/low reps are for strength, and they won't make you grow, especially if you do a lot of boxing training also, since this (the cardio oriented work) will "tone" (what an absolute bull**** word) the muscles.

PunchDrunk
05-17-2006, 07:12 AM
Anyway, good weight exercises are: squat, deadlift, closegrip bench and weighted pull ups for overall strenght. Full contact twists, powerclean, powersnatch, step ups, lunges, single hand dumbbell press, dips, etc.

Also medicine ball programs for explosive and/or power-endurance are amazing for boxing.

Tudor O. Bompa's 'Periodization training for sports' is a good book on how to plan strength training for sports. When to do what, how and why. Oliverlt, you should read it, and shut the **** up until you do. Common knowledge my ass, who wants to be common when you can be special?

oliverlt
05-17-2006, 09:25 AM
key word bodyweight exercises and weight lifting are two very different things.


they are not that different. They are just low weight high rep exercises. What is the difference between push ups and bench press, bodyweight squats and squats, pull ups and lat pulldown, handstand pushups and military press.

PunchDrunk
05-17-2006, 10:03 AM
they are not that different. They are just low weight high rep exercises. What is the difference between push ups and bench press, bodyweight squats and squats, pull ups and lat pulldown, handstand pushups and military press.

I'll give you that. Actually bodyweight exercises are often better, because you have to use your whole body.

I guess the issue here is the high rep/low rep discussion, on you've definitely misunderstood that.

oliverlt
05-17-2006, 10:08 AM
I'm with Kayo here. What he said is exactly right.
Oliverlt you don't know what the **** you're talking about. Do you wear pink legwarmers and work your inner thighs with Jane Fonda? :D
Everyone should do bodyweight exercises. Heavy weight/low reps are for strength, and they won't make you grow, especially if you do a lot of boxing training also, since this (the cardio oriented work) will "tone" (what an absolute bull**** word) the muscles.


If you know so much why do you have to insult to make your point. I agree with the bodyweight, but he said low weight high reps will build size, but its high weight low reps adds mass and strength. And Cardio won't "tone" your body as you say. Cardio is for muscular endurance, but also burns fat that makes your body looked tone but cardio just sheds the fat away so your muscles are seen.

oliverlt
05-17-2006, 10:18 AM
I'll give you that. Actually bodyweight exercises are often better, because you have to use your whole body.

I guess the issue here is the high rep/low rep discussion, on you've definitely misunderstood that.


light weight and more reps is how you bulk..
you wanna be lifting high weight low reps for strength


this is what I was trying to correct light weight and more reps will not add bulk. Proved it with the bodyweight post. I have nothing against Kayo, but I see alot of people come in the gym and get hurt cause they don't know about lifting and proper workouts. My biggest pet pive is guys who arch their back while benching. Your body is actually very smart, it finds out how to do something more efficiently. Like if your Max bench is 300 in 1-3 weeks you can prop do 305. This is how strength is built, forcing your body to find a why to lift heavier weight. So when you do alot of reps at 150 why would that make your body grow. It's muscular endurance at low weights. Bodyweight exercises are actually cardio. So why would they make your body grow.

MusclesMalone
05-17-2006, 04:25 PM
i used to bodybuild.
6-12 reps are generally for building size(with proper eating)
lower then 6 are more strength(training the CNS) and above 12 are more endurance.(the higher you go the less growth occures) but lets be serious here, you are still going to have muscle growth no matter how you lift, they are all closely related.

now on the topic of bodywieght exercises. bodywieght exercises are far superior to lifting. there is a huge difference between a push-up and bench press. when you preform a bodyweight exercise and you body moves through space your brain relises this and your CNS(central nervous system) fires more muscle fibres. this means more fibre's tear, more reform, you grow more. the only downside to bodywieght lifts is just that its your body, it quickly becomes too easy for strength gains. which is where a backpack full of weight is wonderful


and muscles growth is 95% nutrition. you can lift all you want but you will never grow a significant amount without solid food. you will get stronger(due to the training of your cns, and its learning to fire more muscle fibre) but size is all about food.

hotbox2316
05-17-2006, 05:01 PM
i used to bodybuild.
6-12 reps are generally for building size(with proper eating)
lower then 6 are more strength(training the CNS) and above 12 are more endurance.(the higher you go the less growth occures) but lets be serious here, you are still going to have muscle growth no matter how you lift, they are all closely related.

now on the topic of bodywieght exercises. bodywieght exercises are far superior to lifting. there is a huge difference between a push-up and bench press. when you preform a bodyweight exercise and you body moves through space your brain relises this and your CNS(central nervous system) fires more muscle fibres. this means more fibre's tear, more reform, you grow more. the only downside to bodywieght lifts is just that its your body, it quickly becomes too easy for strength gains. which is where a backpack full of weight is wonderful


and muscles growth is 95% nutrition. you can lift all you want but you will never grow a significant amount without solid food. you will get stronger(due to the training of your cns, and its learning to fire more muscle fibre) but size is all about food.

how would you develop a leaner cut look oposed to a bulk muscle look?

PunchDrunk
05-17-2006, 05:40 PM
If you know so much why do you have to insult to make your point. I agree with the bodyweight, but he said low weight high reps will build size, but its high weight low reps adds mass and strength. And Cardio won't "tone" your body as you say. Cardio is for muscular endurance, but also burns fat that makes your body looked tone but cardio just sheds the fat away so your muscles are seen.

What is toning, if it ISN'T bigger muscles, and it ISN'T burning fat to make your body look toned??? What's the difference between LOOKING toned and BEING toned? You're speaking absolute nonsense.

MusclesMalone
05-17-2006, 05:47 PM
how would you develop a leaner cut look oposed to a bulk muscle look?

having a low bodyfat and functional muscle. use compound lifts( squats and deadlifts, bench press, standing military press, pull-ups) with any rep scheme outside of 6-12 really. believe me i defenitaly had a bulky look to me, and lots of that muscle was just useless wieght.
the main thing is: you can exercise, but the cut look is 100% about having low body fat. eat minimal carbs(enough to fuel but not too many) and stay very active, being it with lifting, or any other exercise. eat properly( 6-8 small meals a day) lift a few times a week if you want, go for either high reps(around 20) or low reps(under 6, and do your boxing training(if you box) or bike or run. any amount of lifting will make you look very muscular with low bodyfat.

hotbox2316
05-17-2006, 05:49 PM
having a low bodyfat and functional muscle. use compound lifts( squats and deadlifts, bench press, standing military press, pull-ups) with any rep scheme outside of 6-12 really. believe me i defenitaly had a bulky look to me, and lots of that muscle was just useless wieght.
the main thing is: you can exercise, but the cut look is 100% about having low body fat. eat minimal carbs(enough to fuel but not too many) and stay very active, being it with lifting, or any other exercise. eat properly( 6-8 small meals a day) lift a few times a week if you want, go for either high reps(around 20) or low reps(under 6, and do your boxing training(if you box) or bike or run. any amount of lifting will make you look very muscular with low bodyfat.

appreciate it man good k coming your way...

PunchDrunk
05-17-2006, 05:53 PM
this is what I was trying to correct light weight and more reps will not add bulk. Proved it with the bodyweight post. I have nothing against Kayo, but I see alot of people come in the gym and get hurt cause they don't know about lifting and proper workouts. My biggest pet pive is guys who arch their back while benching. Your body is actually very smart, it finds out how to do something more efficiently. Like if your Max bench is 300 in 1-3 weeks you can prop do 305. This is how strength is built, forcing your body to find a why to lift heavier weight. So when you do alot of reps at 150 why would that make your body grow. It's muscular endurance at low weights. Bodyweight exercises are actually cardio. So why would they make your body grow.

depends on what light weight high reps are. Normally low reps is described as less than 6, high reps is 6-12 or 8-15 depending on who you ask. less than 6 is for strength and, like musclesmalone says, you REALLY have to eat to gain mass doing low reps like that. If you, on top of that, do a lot of boxing oriented workouts, getting any kind of muscle gain is virtually impossible.
Now, if you go over 15 reps, it's really not strength training anymore, it's muscle endurance, which is pointless for boxers to do with weights, because they already train that in everything else they do. Why waste time doing 20 rep benchpressing, when hitting the heavy bag is MUCH more effective for the same purpose?
Yes the body finds a way to get stronger if you push it. However, if you push it with heavy weight/low reps, the adaption that makes you stronger is NEURAL. This means that your neural system enables more of your already existing muscle fibres that weren't accessible before. If you take a human muscle, only half the actual fibres can be activated, the rest are held in reserve. When you train heavy your neural system will recruit more of these fibres, enabling you to get stronger with no additional muscle mass. That is why the only way to get STRONGER without getting bigger, is heavy weight/low rep.

On the topic of bodyweight, have you ever seen top gymnasts? They do nothing but body weight exercises. Now compare a 140 lb boxer to a 140 lb gymnast, who has more muscle? The gymnast hands down. All bodyweight exercise!

oliverlt
05-17-2006, 06:47 PM
What is toning, if it ISN'T bigger muscles, and it ISN'T burning fat to make your body look toned??? What's the difference between LOOKING toned and BEING toned? You're speaking absolute nonsense.


I was saying that cardio alone won't tone your body, It will burn fat. So if you burn all of your fat off and you have no muscle underneath then are you toned? or just skinny? Thats why you have to do muscle toning exercises to develop the muscle for when you shed the fat. Heavy lifting is bad for boxers mainly for lighter weight boxers cause it makes your muscles shorter and more compact. Curls are considered to be the worst for a boxer cause it tightens your biceps. Why would you train your body for 2-4 sets of 5 reps of a high weight when you are going to be atleast a hundred to two hundred of punches in a fight.

oliverlt
05-17-2006, 06:50 PM
depends on what light weight high reps are. Normally low reps is described as less than 6, high reps is 6-12 or 8-15 depending on who you ask. less than 6 is for strength and, like musclesmalone says, you REALLY have to eat to gain mass doing low reps like that. If you, on top of that, do a lot of boxing oriented workouts, getting any kind of muscle gain is virtually impossible.
Now, if you go over 15 reps, it's really not strength training anymore, it's muscle endurance, which is pointless for boxers to do with weights, because they already train that in everything else they do. Why waste time doing 20 rep benchpressing, when hitting the heavy bag is MUCH more effective for the same purpose?
Yes the body finds a way to get stronger if you push it. However, if you push it with heavy weight/low reps, the adaption that makes you stronger is NEURAL. This means that your neural system enables more of your already existing muscle fibres that weren't accessible before. If you take a human muscle, only half the actual fibres can be activated, the rest are held in reserve. When you train heavy your neural system will recruit more of these fibres, enabling you to get stronger with no additional muscle mass. That is why the only way to get STRONGER without getting bigger, is heavy weight/low rep.

On the topic of bodyweight, have you ever seen top gymnasts? They do nothing but body weight exercises. Now compare a 140 lb boxer to a 140 lb gymnast, who has more muscle? The gymnast hands down. All bodyweight exercise!


you forget alot of lighter weight boxers werent born with natural power. and alot of them have to decide in their workout if they want power or speed.

PunchDrunk
05-17-2006, 07:27 PM
I was saying that cardio alone won't tone your body, It will burn fat. So if you burn all of your fat off and you have no muscle underneath then are you toned? or just skinny? Thats why you have to do muscle toning exercises to develop the muscle for when you shed the fat. Heavy lifting is bad for boxers mainly for lighter weight boxers cause it makes your muscles shorter and more compact. Curls are considered to be the worst for a boxer cause it tightens your biceps. Why would you train your body for 2-4 sets of 5 reps of a high weight when you are going to be atleast a hundred to two hundred of punches in a fight.

You just said that cardio will make you "look toned," as if that was somehow different than BEING toned. What's the difference?
Second, make up your mind, if you high reps won't develop muscle, how is it going to help the toning that cardio won't do? If it doesn't develop muscle, then it's pointless for toning.

Stop your bull****, hearsay, MYTHS, please! Here is why I used the Jane Fonda thing before; Heavy lifting won't make your muscles shorter if ít's done right, especially not in the context of a full boxing regimen, which should include stretching. MYTH plain and simple. Where do you propose the material that gave a muscle it's length before is gonna go? And how do you propose the muscle should grow bigger and lose length at the same time?

Also, I NEVER said a boxer should do curls. Curls are bull**** for boxing!

My point about low reps, compared to what you do in a fight, isn't to make it resemble what you do in a fight. That is what all the boxing related training is for. OBVIOUSLY weights are not a replacement for pads, sparring, shadowboxing etc.
In fact, THAT is my point! Why do countless reps with weights, when the other stuff is more effective for that? Waste of time.

What I DO propose using weights for, is gaining STRENGTH.
My next post will expand this issue..

PunchDrunk
05-17-2006, 07:36 PM
you forget alot of lighter weight boxers werent born with natural power. and alot of them have to decide in their workout if they want power or speed.

Here's another point you're missing, because you don't have the basics down.

What is power? Power is acceleration (which is speed) x weight. Since the weight is a given because of weightclasses, you want as much acceleration (speed) as possible, at your weight, to give you as much power as possible. Since speed is correlated to an athletes max strength at a given weight, the best way to increase your power, is to increase your max strength, which gives you a higher potential for speed. This has to be converted through technical training of course, but that's not the issue here.

Higher max strength makes more speed. If you can do this AND stay in your weight division, your power will increase.

Look at Olympic weightlifters. Al their training is high weight/low reps. You won't find many athletes as explosive as these guys, except maybe 100m runners. And guess what? These guys have weight divisions they need to stay in too.

PunchDrunk
05-17-2006, 07:42 PM
And I'm not saying that a boxer should be a weight lifter. But he shouldn't be a long distance runner either. These two opposites are "easy" to train, because one is all explosiveness, and the other is all endurance.

A boxer needs both, and therefore needs to train both strength/explosiveness and endurance. For some reason most people seem to understand the endurance part, but miss the rest, or just don't know HOW it's achieved. I blame this on outdated training MYTHS like the ones you're helping to maintain with your posts. Go back, find one of my first posts, read the book I mentioned.

The_Russian
05-17-2006, 08:45 PM
U guys box after or before you lift weights? (Assuming you lift weights n box the same day)

Kayo
05-17-2006, 08:49 PM
**** look at the arguement i started...

oliverlt
05-17-2006, 08:52 PM
Here's another point you're missing, because you don't have the basics down.

What is power? Power is acceleration (which is speed) x weight. Since the weight is a given because of weightclasses, you want as much acceleration (speed) as possible, at your weight, to give you as much power as possible. Since speed is correlated to an athletes max strength at a given weight, the best way to increase your power, is to increase your max strength, which gives you a higher potential for speed. This has to be converted through technical training of course, but that's not the issue here.

Higher max strength makes more speed. If you can do this AND stay in your weight division, your power will increase.

Look at Olympic weightlifters. Al their training is high weight/low reps. You won't find many athletes as explosive as these guys, except maybe 100m runners. And guess what? These guys have weight divisions they need to stay in too.


strength does not give you speed. Do you think one of these huge bodybuilder/strongman contests could throw a baseball faster than a small Nolan Ryan. They have more strength than Nolan. Look at a heavyweight and a flyweight who is faster and has more speed. I never said boxers shouldn't lift weights. I just said if they want to stay in the lower weight classes they shouldn't lift heavy weights. True once in awhile isnt going to hurt much but they should lift like that all the time. If the more speed you have the more power would you rather get hit with a pillow going 60mph or a bowling ball going 10mph.

oliverlt
05-17-2006, 08:58 PM
You just said that cardio will make you "look toned," as if that was somehow different than BEING toned. What's the difference?
Second, make up your mind, if you high reps won't develop muscle, how is it going to help the toning that cardio won't do? If it doesn't develop muscle, then it's pointless for toning.

Stop your bull****, hearsay, MYTHS, please! Here is why I used the Jane Fonda thing before; Heavy lifting won't make your muscles shorter if ít's done right, especially not in the context of a full boxing regimen, which should include stretching. MYTH plain and simple. Where do you propose the material that gave a muscle it's length before is gonna go? And how do you propose the muscle should grow bigger and lose length at the same time?

Also, I NEVER said a boxer should do curls. Curls are bull**** for boxing!

My point about low reps, compared to what you do in a fight, isn't to make it resemble what you do in a fight. That is what all the boxing related training is for. OBVIOUSLY weights are not a replacement for pads, sparring, shadowboxing etc.
In fact, THAT is my point! Why do countless reps with weights, when the other stuff is more effective for that? Waste of time.

What I DO propose using weights for, is gaining STRENGTH.
My next post will expand this issue..


name one boxer below middleweight that lifts heavy on a consistant basis. I never said high reps wont develop muscle I just said its not going to put alot of size on you like heavy lifing will. I said cardio will burn fat, but if you burn all of your fat and have no muscle developed then you are just skinny you are the one that said cardio will tone your body.

PunchDrunk
05-18-2006, 03:23 AM
strength does not give you speed. Do you think one of these huge bodybuilder/strongman contests could throw a baseball faster than a small Nolan Ryan. They have more strength than Nolan. Look at a heavyweight and a flyweight who is faster and has more speed. I never said boxers shouldn't lift weights. I just said if they want to stay in the lower weight classes they shouldn't lift heavy weights. True once in awhile isnt going to hurt much but they should lift like that all the time. If the more speed you have the more power would you rather get hit with a pillow going 60mph or a bowling ball going 10mph.

Again, you miss the point! You don't have the basics down, and you keep confusing different things for each other. For instance, in the post I just quoted you mix up STRENGTH and SIZE. True, size should normally give you strength, but the issue here is increasing strength without increasing size.
No, a strongman contestant might not be able to throw a baseball faster than Nolan Ryan. But that is because a strongman doesn't have the SKILL to do so. Also, strongmen don't have weight divsions, so relative strength isn't that important to them.
Relative strength is important to boxers, with means they need as high a max strength at as low a bodyweight as possible.

Your pillow/bowling ball analogy AGAIN proves you're missing the point, and just don't have the basics down. What did I say about speed and power? I said that speed x WEIGHT = power. Which is heavier, and has a denser mass, a pillow or a bowling ball?
It goes like this; what would you rather get hit by, a bowling ball going 10 mph, or a bowling ball going 60 mph? They're the same weight, which one is more powerful? The one with more speed. THANK YOU!
What would you rather get hit by, a 140 lb boxers fist going 10 mph, or a 140 lb boxers fist going 60 mph?

Dude, you just don't get it, and I'm gonna stop wasting my time on your elementary school nonsense. See ya.

JDizzle79
05-18-2006, 04:24 AM
hey goldenboy...practice reppin peeing yourself...three sets, ten reps each... your prosatae will thank you

patto1984
05-18-2006, 07:17 AM
haha i knew oliverlt was gonna get his ass handed to him by punchdrunk or bigdozer as soon as he made his post. Dude do some research b4 u preach like you know ****.

oliverlt
05-18-2006, 11:11 AM
haha i knew oliverlt was gonna get his ass handed to him by punchdrunk or bigdozer as soon as he made his post. Dude do some research b4 u preach like you know ****.


How did I get my ass handed to me. Speed does not equal power. Winky Wright has speed but no power. And he still can't name any lower than middle weight class boxers that lift heavy weights on a consistant basis. all you have to do is pick up a men's health mag, or even the bodybuilding mags (always has pics of guys lifting heavy weight cause they want bulk) and yes it is true to add a large amount of bulk it takes alot of different factors, and weight training isn't a universal rule. Its mostly personal Preference Everybody's body is different so what may work for me may not work for you. And I'm wondering did any of you play any sports in high school or ever box on a consistant basis.

PunchDrunk
05-18-2006, 12:38 PM
I boxed on and off from age 13 to 31. 88 fights.
I've been a trainer since 1999. I have 3 national champions, and had 3 guys at the U19 European championships in 2005.

I have the top physical training for elite athletes education in my country, which I graduated top 3 of my class in 2003.

I know boxing, AND I know the theoretical background of the science of training.

From what I know Patto1984 is a nationally ranked amateur in Australia.

You, however, have looked through Men's health and bodybuilding mags. :D

PunchDrunk
05-18-2006, 12:43 PM
Ohj, regarding your question on fighters below middleweight who use weights. I really shouldn't be answering, since you don't answer my questions to you, but here goes: Off the top of my head.... Ricky Hatton, Kostya Tzyu, Shane Mosley, Oscar de la Hoya, the German national amateurs, the Russians.

My own fighters have been doing it, since I took over a couple years ago. 3 of them moved DOWN a weight division, since we started doing weights, and power wise they really stand out here now.

oliverlt
05-18-2006, 02:10 PM
Ohj, regarding your question on fighters below middleweight who use weights. I really shouldn't be answering, since you don't answer my questions to you, but here goes: Off the top of my head.... Ricky Hatton, Kostya Tzyu, Shane Mosley, Oscar de la Hoya, the German national amateurs, the Russians.

My own fighters have been doing it, since I took over a couple years ago. 3 of them moved DOWN a weight division, since we started doing weights, and power wise they really stand out here now.


i didnt say who use weights I said use heavy weights consistently. the first post was asking about getting into training. Would you have a new guy start out lifting heavy. Thats just asking for trouble

The_Russian
05-18-2006, 03:29 PM
Why are u all arguin' bout weight training?

PunchDrunk
05-18-2006, 04:42 PM
i didnt say who use weights I said use heavy weights consistently. the first post was asking about getting into training. Would you have a new guy start out lifting heavy. Thats just asking for trouble

Consistently yes. I answered your question.

I never said I'd have a new guy lifting heavy to begin with. That wasn't what you and I were discussing, so don't change the subject.

Besides, the guy has obviously been weight training for a while if you read his post, so he's obviously not a "new guy" to lifting weights. My advice to him would be to get a trainer who has done more than read Men's health, who can guide him in the right direction. First of all, you can't coach somebody over a message board. Second, there's too many kooks playing experts, who don't know what they're talking about, who have never trained a fighter in their lives. How do you separate the knowledgeable from the wannabe's, if you're not an expert yourself? (hint: If their reference is Men's health, don't listen to them)

oliverlt
05-18-2006, 04:54 PM
Consistently yes. I answered your question.

I never said I'd have a new guy lifting heavy to begin with. That wasn't what you and I were discussing, so don't change the subject.

Besides, the guy has obviously been weight training for a while if you read his post, so he's obviously not a "new guy" to lifting weights. My advice to him would be to get a trainer who has done more than read Men's health, who can guide him in the right direction. First of all, you can't coach somebody over a message board. Second, there's too many kooks playing experts, who don't know what they're talking about, who have never trained a fighter in their lives. How do you separate the knowledgeable from the wannabe's, if you're not an expert yourself? (hint: If their reference is Men's health, don't listen to them)

didnt you reference Tudor O. Bompa's 'Periodization training for sports'in another post. And I'm less cause I read Mens health. Since you're a trainer I'm sure you know you can't pull two guys off the street put them on the same program and get the same results. Workout programs are like *******s everyone has one. If you ask ten different trainers you'll get ten different answers. And as for as Golden I doubt he's been to a gym, maybe you missed his pics in the other board of him pissing himself, his pink contacts matching his pink shirt or of the post where he wanted to start boxing cause he wanted to be in the golden gloves in 30 days.

MusclesMalone
05-18-2006, 04:56 PM
i dont like boxings archiac nature. lifting wieghts can be very beneficial to boxers at all weights.
look at olympic lifters and power lifters. they ahve weight class's, what they do is train thier brain and nervous system to activate more muscle fibers at a time. are you telling me that wouldnt be beneficial for a boxer?

ricecrispi
05-18-2006, 05:21 PM
I agree but do you know what excercises are good to use as a boxer.
That is why many trainers don't suggest it because they don't know what they are talking about.

If you don't know what you are doing you shouldn't being doing it.
I suggest finding a really good pro trainer and asking him to design a workout program for a boxer. Not a personal trainer,pro trainer with a college degree in kinestology or whatever its spelled

PunchDrunk
05-18-2006, 06:13 PM
didnt you reference Tudor O. Bompa's 'Periodization training for sports'in another post. And I'm less cause I read Mens health. Since you're a trainer I'm sure you know you can't pull two guys off the street put them on the same program and get the same results. Workout programs are like *******s everyone has one. If you ask ten different trainers you'll get ten different answers. And as for as Golden I doubt he's been to a gym, maybe you missed his pics in the other board of him pissing himself, his pink contacts matching his pink shirt or of the post where he wanted to start boxing cause he wanted to be in the golden gloves in 30 days.

See, everytime I wipe out your no good points, you change the subject. Pathetic.
Training two different guys will always be a little different. That's called INDIVIDUALIZATION. And again you're missing the bigger picture. Just because two guys are a little different, one may tire easier, or some other detail like that, it doesn't mean that the BASIC PHYSIOLOGY and the BASIC TRAINING THEORY behind what you're doing with them is different. We're talking the big picture here, heavy weight/low rep, light weight/high rep remember? The need for individualization doesn't change that at all. You're grasping for straws.

Oh, and if you really think Men's health and Bompa's anyhwere near the same level, then that says it all really.

How can you equate reading a dumbass magazine like that with getting an actual education in the field? Does subscribing to Popular Science make you a rocket scientist? Get a grip! :rolleyes:

Kayo
05-18-2006, 10:46 PM
haha i knew oliverlt was gonna get his ass handed to him by punchdrunk or bigdozer as soon as he made his post. Dude do some research b4 u preach like you know ****.
yeah i knew it was the begining of him making a fool of himself as soon as he disagreed with my post

patto1984
05-19-2006, 01:51 AM
1. im a liteweight i lift on a constant basis and have boxed competivly for 5 yrs
2. speed does equal power. if 2 ppl weigh the same and have the same technique the quicker one will punch harder.
3. heavy weights will not bulk you up unless u eat and weight train like a body builder. I weight train like a olympic weight lifter (who also has to keep weight)

4. im wonderin if u have the education and fitness development skills that punchdrunk has or are u basing ur facts on heresay!- the answer is no, and that my friend is how u got ur ass handed to u on a silver platter.

patto1984
05-19-2006, 01:54 AM
p.s now shutup and learn

Smokin'
05-19-2006, 02:23 AM
patto1984, you nationally ranked boxer?

oliverlt
05-19-2006, 02:16 PM
See, everytime I wipe out your no good points, you change the subject. Pathetic.
Training two different guys will always be a little different. That's called INDIVIDUALIZATION. And again you're missing the bigger picture. Just because two guys are a little different, one may tire easier, or some other detail like that, it doesn't mean that the BASIC PHYSIOLOGY and the BASIC TRAINING THEORY behind what you're doing with them is different. We're talking the big picture here, heavy weight/low rep, light weight/high rep remember? The need for individualization doesn't change that at all. You're grasping for straws.

Oh, and if you really think Men's health and Bompa's anyhwere near the same level, then that says it all really.

How can you equate reading a dumbass magazine like that with getting an actual education in the field? Does subscribing to Popular Science make you a rocket scientist? Get a grip! :rolleyes:


Yes the topic did change but he said low weigh high reps will bulk you which it won't bulk(I didnt say muscles won't grow which is apparent cause you are working them out) bulk comes from high weight low reps. My reason don't come from just Men's health. And the fact that you say your book is better than a magazine is just opionion not a fact. I've play sports since elementary school, I have boxed also, lifted weights for over 10 years, I've been in the army for over 6 years. as well as my dad has lifting for 30 years. I grew up around being athletic. My boxing trainer didnt want me lifting weights and did alot of old school exercises I guess you would say. But alot of the old timers don't believe in weights. And if you watch alot of the older fights (15 rounds) they were in better shape at the end then boxers of today that lift weights (10-12 rounds) Now since you say you started boxing at 13 did you have an old timer as a trainer cause old timer don't change their workouts every few years like the new age trainers.

oliverlt
05-19-2006, 02:20 PM
1. im a liteweight i lift on a constant basis and have boxed competivly for 5 yrs




You need to shut up and learn how to spell. How can you not know how to spell what weight class you're in Lightweight

PunchDrunk
05-19-2006, 04:19 PM
Yes the topic did change but he said low weigh high reps will bulk you which it won't bulk(I didnt say muscles won't grow which is apparent cause you are working them out) bulk comes from high weight low reps. My reason don't come from just Men's health. And the fact that you say your book is better than a magazine is just opionion not a fact. I've play sports since elementary school, I have boxed also, lifted weights for over 10 years, I've been in the army for over 6 years. as well as my dad has lifting for 30 years. I grew up around being athletic. My boxing trainer didnt want me lifting weights and did alot of old school exercises I guess you would say. But alot of the old timers don't believe in weights. And if you watch alot of the older fights (15 rounds) they were in better shape at the end then boxers of today that lift weights (10-12 rounds) Now since you say you started boxing at 13 did you have an old timer as a trainer cause old timer don't change their workouts every few years like the new age trainers.

So how do you define high rep then ? Anything over 15 isn't really strength training. 8-15 will get you bulk, 6 and down is for strength not bulk.

I think all my boxing trainers were old timers, and they didn't believe in weights. The operative word here is BELIEVE. They didn't KNOW. See what I'm saying? Training is a SCIENCE, not a religion. If you believe, then shut up, 'till you know. ;)

I've always watched fights. Old ones too. It's funny that boxing, for some reason, is the only sport where people think fighters were faster, tougher, more skilled, and just plain better in the old days. Every other sport on the planet, athletes keep getting better and better. In 100m you can prove it by looking at the world record. In Weight lifting you can prove it by looking at the world record. Boxing however, is a very subjective sport, not only is it really hard agree on who wins a fight, if both fighters are standing at the final bell (look at the discussions on the outcome of fights on this board), it is impossible to prove that Lennox Lewis would have handed Jack Dempsey his ass, Or Bernard Hopkins would have beat the greatest ever Sugar Ray Robinson. I, for one, don't believe that the fighters of yesteryear were better than the ones today. Not for a second. Like every other sport, the speed, power and intensity of the sport has gone up. Show me a fight from the 30'es over 15-20 rounds where they go at it like Gatti-Ward did over 10. Not many of those around
If you know you have to go 15 rounds you train accordingly, and in the fight, you set the pace accordingly. If you go 4x2 minutes in an amateur bout at top level, you don't train the same way, don't fight the same way as a 12 or 15 round title fight. Just like a 400m runner doesn't train the same or run the race the same as a marathon runner. They're both runners, but there's a big difference. Same thing in boxing.
Do you think they were even better conditioned when they did 120 rounds in a fight, or do you think maybe the pace was a little different? Trick question! :D

Anyway, you're not bringing anything to the table here, before you know it, I'll have to correct your misgivings about how men and women make babies or some other topic you'll bring in to the discussion to divert attention from your lack of knowledge. I've said it before, but this time I really am done here. Have fun getting the last word. :)

PunchDrunk
05-19-2006, 04:23 PM
i dont like boxings archiac nature. lifting wieghts can be very beneficial to boxers at all weights.
look at olympic lifters and power lifters. they ahve weight class's, what they do is train thier brain and nervous system to activate more muscle fibers at a time. are you telling me that wouldnt be beneficial for a boxer?

You said it brother!

Kayo
05-20-2006, 01:20 PM
So how do you define high rep then ? Anything over 15 isn't really strength training. 8-15 will get you bulk, 6 and down is for strength not bulk.

I think all my boxing trainers were old timers, and they didn't believe in weights. The operative word here is BELIEVE. They didn't KNOW. See what I'm saying? Training is a SCIENCE, not a religion. If you believe, then shut up, 'till you know. ;)

I've always watched fights. Old ones too. It's funny that boxing, for some reason, is the only sport where people think fighters were faster, tougher, more skilled, and just plain better in the old days. Every other sport on the planet, athletes keep getting better and better. In 100m you can prove it by looking at the world record. In Weight lifting you can prove it by looking at the world record. Boxing however, is a very subjective sport, not only is it really hard agree on who wins a fight, if both fighters are standing at the final bell (look at the discussions on the outcome of fights on this board), it is impossible to prove that Lennox Lewis would have handed Jack Dempsey his ass, Or Bernard Hopkins would have beat the greatest ever Sugar Ray Robinson. I, for one, don't believe that the fighters of yesteryear were better than the ones today. Not for a second. Like every other sport, the speed, power and intensity of the sport has gone up. Show me a fight from the 30'es over 15-20 rounds where they go at it like Gatti-Ward did over 10. Not many of those around
If you know you have to go 15 rounds you train accordingly, and in the fight, you set the pace accordingly. If you go 4x2 minutes in an amateur bout at top level, you don't train the same way, don't fight the same way as a 12 or 15 round title fight. Just like a 400m runner doesn't train the same or run the race the same as a marathon runner. They're both runners, but there's a big difference. Same thing in boxing.
Do you think they were even better conditioned when they did 120 rounds in a fight, or do you think maybe the pace was a little different? Trick question! :D

Anyway, you're not bringing anything to the table here, before you know it, I'll have to correct your misgivings about how men and women make babies or some other topic you'll bring in to the discussion to divert attention from your lack of knowledge. I've said it before, but this time I really am done here. Have fun getting the last word. :)
Oliverlt=Owned

-GBGQ-
05-20-2006, 08:50 PM
Oliverlt=Owned

Agreed!

Thanks for the tips though fellas.

Smokin'
05-20-2006, 09:18 PM
GBPRM, you like Julio Diaz? Why?