View Full Version : 90's foreman Vs 90's tyson


hemichromis
05-14-2006, 02:59 PM
who would win

i think if foreman can get a hand on tysons shoulders he can keep tyson away and pound him from afar but is a 90's foreman quick enough to do that in your opinion

Verstyle
05-14-2006, 03:02 PM
who would win

i think if foreman can get a hand on tysons shoulders he can keep tyson away and pound him from afar but is a 90's foreman quick enough to do that in your opinion


91' tyson would get him

SABBATH
05-14-2006, 03:05 PM
who would win

i think if foreman can get a hand on tysons shoulders he can keep tyson away and pound him from afar but is a 90's foreman quick enough to do that in your opinionForeman too big, too strong, too tough mentally.

The following exerpt comes from an article by boxing writer Frank Lotierzo.

In the subsequent months following Foreman's victory over Cooney and Douglas' upset of Tyson, there was much talk of a Foreman-Tyson fight. It was a potential fight that captured the public's imagination, and not just the boxing public. In fact, there were several reports that the fight was signed and about to be announced. ESPN Sportscenter devoted numerous segments on the fight assuming it was going to happen. Shortly thereafter, there was an announcement that Foreman and Tyson were going to fight on the same card. In late April of 1990, it was announced that Foreman and Tyson would be fighting a co-main event on June 16 to be broadcast on HBO. Foreman's opponent was Adilson Rodrigues, who was ranked in the top ten by two of the major sanctioning bodies. Tyson's opponent was the unranked Henry Tillman. Tillman was best known for beating Tyson twice in the 1984 Olympic trials.

At this time, Evander Holyfield was getting ready for his sixth fight as a heavyweight against Seamus McDonagh on June 1 in Atlantic City. On the day of the Holyfield-McDonagh fight, I went to grab something to eat with Georgie Benton, Lou Duva and Bobby Goodman. At the time, Goodman was, and still is, Don King's matchmaker. I've known Benton for many years, through him I met Duva, and was introduced to Goodman a couple weeks before Tyson fought Larry Holmes at the Convention Center in Atlantic City in January 1988.

While we were eating, Benton said, "Bobby, what's up with Foreman and Tyson, how come they're not fighting each other on the 16th? Isn't that the fight that King was trying to make?" He said, " Georgie,You'll never believe this but, ****in' Tyson is scared ****less of Foreman and wants no part of him. I was there when Don was trying to make the fight. He was telling Tyson that Foreman represented huge money, plus he was old and slow and would be no problem. Tyson got up and screamed at King saying, 'I'm not fightin' that ****in' animal, if you love the mother****er so much, you fight him!'"

Goodman stated that Tyson said Foreman was much better than people thought, and was a dangerous fight for any of the top heavyweights. Goodman proceeded to explain how Tyson was calling Foreman a big con man, and explained that the grandpop act was just a front. He said Tyson saw Foreman as trying to set up the boxing world into thinking he was a pushover, knowing that he really wasn't. Tyson said Foreman was a wolf in sheep's clothing. Goodman continued to say that after seeing Tyson's response to King trying to push him into a fight with Foreman, he had no doubt that Tyson had fear of Foreman. He also said that from that point on, he felt that if Foreman and Tyson ever fought, Foreman would knock Tyson out!

Throughout the lunch Goodman, Duva, Benton, and myself shared stories and thoughts on the fight game. Out of the blue Goodman said, "Oh I remember why else Tyson wanted no parts of Foreman. He said that King had found out from Steve Lott that Tyson and Cus D'Amato used to watch the Frazier-Foreman fight over and over." He continued saying that Tyson loved that fight because he was awed by Foreman's power and Frazier's toughness and how he kept getting up after every knockdown. He also said that Lott told King that Cus sat alongside Tyson saying, "It's suicide against Foreman if you're short and fight a swarming attacking style like Marciano or Frazier," never figuring that Foreman could be a possible Tyson opponent down the road. He said that Cus said the only fighters who had a chance against Foreman were, tall rangy fighters who could fight him from a distance while moving away from him, and no way any swarmer could beat Foreman by going to him.

Those are the words of the man who actually had a hand in trying to make the Foreman-Tyson fight, and was in the room when the negotiations broke down. Over the years, I've talked to many people who were involved with Tyson and Foreman and they all verify the story, every one of them. I have also talked to people who were involved with promoting Foreman, including Ron Weathers who promoted a few of Foreman's comeback fights. He told me the same story. The fight didn't happen because of Tyson being fearful of losing to George. Bob Arum also said that he dreamed of making Foreman-Tyson. He said it would be huge money and that Foreman would stop Tyson easier than he did Frazier. This is something Arum often repeated to the press. I have also heard this from George's brother Roy who was his business manager. I co-hosted a boxing show with Roy in Atlantic City for a little less than two months and this was a regular topic when discussing Tyson. Anyone who covered boxing at the time or knew any of the involved parties knew of this. It's not breaking news

aljon
05-14-2006, 03:17 PM
who would win

i think if foreman can get a hand on tysons shoulders he can keep tyson away and pound him from afar but is a 90's foreman quick enough to do that in your opinion
Foreman was strong big and powerful, but he had no footwork, he was too slow for Tyson. Tyson would be just too fast for Foreman at that time and I don't know how long Foreman would stand Tyson's powershots...

Yaman
05-14-2006, 03:37 PM
Foreman would end up in the hospital. After Tyson keeps hitting him with everything he got, Foreman refuses to go down, but Tysn finishes him off with a right to the jaw a la past prime Holmes. 74 Foreman had the best chance to stop Tyson, he was not a slow gorilla like in the 90s.

Dempsey 1919
05-14-2006, 11:05 PM
foreman in 13.

Verstyle
05-14-2006, 11:10 PM
foreman in 13.

13rounds in the 90s? u been smokin to much crack

Heckler
05-14-2006, 11:12 PM
90's foreman knockouts out the tyson that fought in the ruddock rematch. Why? Tyson was **** scared and would of lost the fight before he stepped between those ropes. At that stage of his career he wasn't moving that well, he didn't look incredibly fast and he couldn't outbox Foreman nor do i believe he had the ability to KO George. 80's Tyson wins on points, 90's Tyson looses via KO.

Dempsey 1919
05-14-2006, 11:16 PM
13rounds in the 90s? u been smokin to much crack

oh, yeah. then i guess 10. :p

SABBATH
05-14-2006, 11:37 PM
90's foreman knockouts out the tyson that fought in the ruddock rematch. Why? Tyson was **** scared and would of lost the fight before he stepped between those ropes. At that stage of his career he wasn't moving that well, he didn't look incredibly fast and he couldn't outbox Foreman nor do i believe he had the ability to KO George. 80's Tyson wins on points, 90's Tyson looses via KO.
The 90's Foreman is stronger than anyone Tyson fought, had a better chin than anyone Tyson fought, was mentally tougher than anyone Tyson had fought up until Holyfield, and had a harder jab than anyone Tyson fought.

Holyfield said Foreman hit harder than Lennox Lewis, so if we can go by Holyfield who would know better than any one of us, Foreman would be the hardest hitter Tyson ever fought. Anyone that thinks this fight is a mismatch when this version of Tyson was taken 12 rounds by a one-armed, one punch Razor Ruddock is not being objective. Ruddock is inferior to Foreman in all of the above categories.

Brockton Lip
05-14-2006, 11:37 PM
Tyson by late TKO. Even if intimidated, I see Tyson having a great chance to win.

RockyMarcianofan00
05-14-2006, 11:39 PM
This all comes down to how well conditioned/trained tyson is

Style Wise Foreman should win but Tyson can surprise you

Brassangel
05-14-2006, 11:48 PM
I guess I think of how Moorer beat up Foreman until Foreman threw a bunny punch that put him down. I think that Tyson would pound Foreman in the 90's in similar fashion while Foreman hopes to land a few right hands. Foreman was still dangerous, and he always would be. Shoot, he could still probably knock some guys out who are in the division today. I just see Tyson really landing some uncontested combos, and he definitely hit more effectively than Holyfield or Moorer. He would probably get pissed when Foreman wouldn't go down, however, and that could cost him. Even so, I predict Tyson TKO 6.

A much more thrilling fight might be 87 Tyson vs. 73 Foreman. Both were much quicker; Tyson being very defensive and George was a wrecking machine... whew! :boxing:

SABBATH
05-15-2006, 12:32 AM
I guess I think of how Moorer beat up Foreman until Foreman threw a bunny punch that put him down. I think that Tyson would pound Foreman in the 90's in similar fashion while Foreman hopes to land a few right hands. Foreman was still dangerous, and he always would be. Shoot, he could still probably knock some guys out who are in the division today. I just see Tyson really landing some uncontested combos, and he definitely hit more effectively than Holyfield or Moorer. He would probably get pissed when Foreman wouldn't go down, however, and that could cost him. Even so, I predict Tyson TKO 6.

A much more thrilling fight might be 87 Tyson vs. 73 Foreman. Both were much quicker; Tyson being very defensive and George was a wrecking machine... whew! :boxing:This fight was supposed to happen in 1990 not 1994 which is when Foreman fought Moorer. Foreman also fought Moorer after 17 months of inactivity. Foreman's performances noticeably regressed after losing to Holyfield in 1991.

Tyson didn't want to fight this version of Foreman which would have been the biggest money fight at the time. Tyson chose to fight Alex Stewart instead while Foreman fought the next biggest money fight Evander Holyfield.

Brassangel
05-15-2006, 09:53 AM
Originally Posted by SABBATHThis fight was supposed to happen in 1990 not 1994 which is when Foreman fought Moorer. Foreman also fought Moorer after 17 months of inactivity. Foreman's performances noticeably regressed after losing to Holyfield in 1991.

Tyson didn't want to fight this version of Foreman which would have been the biggest money fight at the time. Tyson chose to fight Alex Stewart instead while Foreman fought the next biggest money fight Evander Holyfield.

I guess I don't see how this has much bearing on my statements, but then I rarely see the point of your Tyson-hating posts anyway. I will commend you for your article research, although much like the media, they are clearly an extreme bias one way or another.

Yaman
05-15-2006, 10:00 AM
If Foreman wants to do something to a swarming wrecking machine like Tyson, he would have to be quick with his punches and at the same time try to keep Tyson off. Tyson of the 90s was not the peek a boo style fighter he was in the 80s, but he would really have to use it slip those 10 second right uppercuts from Foreman :rolleyes: .

Oh and smasher, its not you're being taken serious because of your hate for Tyon.

SABBATH
05-15-2006, 10:47 AM
I guess I don't see how this has much bearing on my statements, but then I rarely see the point of your Tyson-hating posts anyway. I will commend you for your article research, although much like the media, they are clearly an extreme bias one way or another.It has alot of bearing on your statement as you chose a diminished inactive Foreman to weakly attempt to prove your point.

I could just as easily say Tyson was manhandled then floored by a Holyfield body punch and stopped by the 18-1 underdog who hadn't had a KO win over a heavyweight in 5 years. Gee imagine what the Foreman that KO'd Cooney or Rodrigues would do.....

sleazyfellow
05-15-2006, 11:12 AM
I guess I don't see how this has much bearing on my statements, but then I rarely see the point of your Tyson-hating posts anyway. I will commend you for your article research, although much like the media, they are clearly an extreme bias one way or another.

yeah i never take the copy n paste king serious either, tyson has more a chance than either frazier or marciano ever would of against foreman since he got a much older one in front of him,tyson could move as well as punch unlike the others mentioned

Southpaw Stinger
05-15-2006, 12:12 PM
I think Foreman could pull it off with a surprise KO. I wasn't that impressed with 90's Tyson but I think he would out point Foreman. George would need a KO to win and who's to say he couldn't land that big right?

Brassangel
05-15-2006, 01:16 PM
He very well could have landed that big right, but I don't think he would have jumped on the ball if he saw Tyson was hurt (which of course, was rarely the case after only one punch). Even so, I think that Tyson might win on points, or by a mid-to-late k.o. while Foreman was tired and basically defenseless.

Foreman
05-15-2006, 02:53 PM
Foreman wins by KO. Tyson himself thought so. To pass up the largest payday in boxing history speaks volumes. If Tyson is mentally beat before he even gets in the ring, there is no way he can win. In case some people didn't notice, Tyson isn't a shining example of how to fight when things get tough. He folds like a $2 lawn chair when the heat is on. This ain't Bruce Seldon he'd be fighting. Foreman took a beating from Holy and Moorer and he kept coming after them, eventually catching up with Moorer. Tyson can't handle that, not in the '90's, '80's, not ever.

Yaman
05-15-2006, 03:12 PM
Foreman wins by KO. Tyson himself thought so. To pass up the largest payday in boxing history speaks volumes. If Tyson is mentally beat before he even gets in the ring, there is no way he can win. In case some people didn't notice, Tyson isn't a shining example of how to fight when things get tough. He folds like a $2 lawn chair when the heat is on. This ain't Bruce Seldon he'd be fighting. Foreman took a beating from Holy and Moorer and he kept coming after them, eventually catching up with Moorer. Tyson can't handle that, not in the '90's, '80's, not ever.

WOw, please tell me about your story of meeting Tyson and him telling you everything about being scared of Foreman.

hemichromis
05-15-2006, 03:34 PM
WOw, please tell me about your story of meeting Tyson and him telling you everything about being scared of Foreman.

actually their is a quote somewhere of a guy who woirked tysons corner saying that both tyson and cus thought that foreman was too dangerous

think abnout it, why would tyson miss an oppertunity to fight an old guy who used to be a legend, the only guy who had more power in his punches



tyson could never fight going backwards it unnerved him and foreman would be pushing him back immediatly

there is no swarmer that would stand a better chance aganist foreman but then theres no swarmer that could beat him!

oliverlt
05-15-2006, 03:37 PM
tyson ducked Foreman Fact

Southpaw Stinger
05-15-2006, 04:27 PM
And he ducked Foreman for a reason. Tyson wouldn't miss out on such a big payday unless he thought that he couldn't win.

Yogi
05-15-2006, 04:50 PM
And he ducked Foreman for a reason. Tyson wouldn't miss out on such a big payday unless he thought that he couldn't win.

I take it you'll be consistent with your opinions when it comes to the Foreman/Quarry situation, yes?

I mean, we're all aware that Foreman later stated that he "didn't want any part of Quarry" back in the day, which the contemporary writings of his day seem to suggest was the case...

So does that make Quarry the automatic winner of that mythical matchup?

RockyMarcianofan00
05-15-2006, 04:52 PM
I take it you'll be consistent with your opinions when it comes to the Foreman/Quarry situation, yes?

I mean, we're all aware that Foreman later stated that he "didn't want any part of Quarry" back in the day, which the contemporary writings of his day seem to suggest was the case...

So does that make Quarry the automatic winner of that mythical matchup?
No
But I believe that was a retorical question on your part Yogi. Foreman v Quarry would be interesting fight but i still see Foreman winning a KO in maybe round 4.

LondonRingRules
05-15-2006, 09:17 PM
I take it you'll be consistent with your opinions when it comes to the Foreman/Quarry situation, yes?

I mean, we're all aware that Foreman later stated that he "didn't want any part of Quarry" back in the day, which the contemporary writings of his day seem to suggest was the case...

So does that make Quarry the automatic winner of that mythical matchup?
** I've never run across that quote except when quoted by others. I asked George about Quarry rumors, and he only said that Quarry was a counter puncher that made a tough fight. On his old website he listed Quarry quite highly among heavies who never won a title.

He also said he never sparred with Quarry or considered a fight with him. Jerry lost every championship fight he was in, but George has a respect for him nonetheless.

Brassangel
05-16-2006, 11:44 AM
Tyson was actually afraid of a lot of his opponents, but given what he was going through at the time, he just might not have had the guts to formulate a strategy for that fight. While I think Tyson could win this fight, that doesn't mean he didn't avoid it.

Southpaw Stinger
05-16-2006, 12:38 PM
I take it you'll be consistent with your opinions when it comes to the Foreman/Quarry situation, yes?

I mean, we're all aware that Foreman later stated that he "didn't want any part of Quarry" back in the day, which the contemporary writings of his day seem to suggest was the case...

So does that make Quarry the automatic winner of that mythical matchup?

Thing is Foreman was more mentally together. He admitted he was scared of Frazier but that didn't stop him from flattening him!
Where as Tyson of that time wasn't the most focussed man. Holyfield wasn't intimidated by Tyson and he proved successful, if Tyson was intimidated by Foreman then I can see there being some trouble.

K-DOGG
05-16-2006, 12:53 PM
Foreman too big, too strong, too tough mentally.

The following exerpt comes from an article by boxing writer Frank Lotierzo.

In the subsequent months following Foreman's victory over Cooney and Douglas' upset of Tyson, there was much talk of a Foreman-Tyson fight. It was a potential fight that captured the public's imagination, and not just the boxing public. In fact, there were several reports that the fight was signed and about to be announced. ESPN Sportscenter devoted numerous segments on the fight assuming it was going to happen. Shortly thereafter, there was an announcement that Foreman and Tyson were going to fight on the same card. In late April of 1990, it was announced that Foreman and Tyson would be fighting a co-main event on June 16 to be broadcast on HBO. Foreman's opponent was Adilson Rodrigues, who was ranked in the top ten by two of the major sanctioning bodies. Tyson's opponent was the unranked Henry Tillman. Tillman was best known for beating Tyson twice in the 1984 Olympic trials.

At this time, Evander Holyfield was getting ready for his sixth fight as a heavyweight against Seamus McDonagh on June 1 in Atlantic City. On the day of the Holyfield-McDonagh fight, I went to grab something to eat with Georgie Benton, Lou Duva and Bobby Goodman. At the time, Goodman was, and still is, Don King's matchmaker. I've known Benton for many years, through him I met Duva, and was introduced to Goodman a couple weeks before Tyson fought Larry Holmes at the Convention Center in Atlantic City in January 1988.

While we were eating, Benton said, "Bobby, what's up with Foreman and Tyson, how come they're not fighting each other on the 16th? Isn't that the fight that King was trying to make?" He said, " Georgie,You'll never believe this but, ****in' Tyson is scared ****less of Foreman and wants no part of him. I was there when Don was trying to make the fight. He was telling Tyson that Foreman represented huge money, plus he was old and slow and would be no problem. Tyson got up and screamed at King saying, 'I'm not fightin' that ****in' animal, if you love the mother****er so much, you fight him!'"

Goodman stated that Tyson said Foreman was much better than people thought, and was a dangerous fight for any of the top heavyweights. Goodman proceeded to explain how Tyson was calling Foreman a big con man, and explained that the grandpop act was just a front. He said Tyson saw Foreman as trying to set up the boxing world into thinking he was a pushover, knowing that he really wasn't. Tyson said Foreman was a wolf in sheep's clothing. Goodman continued to say that after seeing Tyson's response to King trying to push him into a fight with Foreman, he had no doubt that Tyson had fear of Foreman. He also said that from that point on, he felt that if Foreman and Tyson ever fought, Foreman would knock Tyson out!

Throughout the lunch Goodman, Duva, Benton, and myself shared stories and thoughts on the fight game. Out of the blue Goodman said, "Oh I remember why else Tyson wanted no parts of Foreman. He said that King had found out from Steve Lott that Tyson and Cus D'Amato used to watch the Frazier-Foreman fight over and over." He continued saying that Tyson loved that fight because he was awed by Foreman's power and Frazier's toughness and how he kept getting up after every knockdown. He also said that Lott told King that Cus sat alongside Tyson saying, "It's suicide against Foreman if you're short and fight a swarming attacking style like Marciano or Frazier," never figuring that Foreman could be a possible Tyson opponent down the road. He said that Cus said the only fighters who had a chance against Foreman were, tall rangy fighters who could fight him from a distance while moving away from him, and no way any swarmer could beat Foreman by going to him.

Those are the words of the man who actually had a hand in trying to make the Foreman-Tyson fight, and was in the room when the negotiations broke down. Over the years, I've talked to many people who were involved with Tyson and Foreman and they all verify the story, every one of them. I have also talked to people who were involved with promoting Foreman, including Ron Weathers who promoted a few of Foreman's comeback fights. He told me the same story. The fight didn't happen because of Tyson being fearful of losing to George. Bob Arum also said that he dreamed of making Foreman-Tyson. He said it would be huge money and that Foreman would stop Tyson easier than he did Frazier. This is something Arum often repeated to the press. I have also heard this from George's brother Roy who was his business manager. I co-hosted a boxing show with Roy in Atlantic City for a little less than two months and this was a regular topic when discussing Tyson. Anyone who covered boxing at the time or knew any of the involved parties knew of this. It's not breaking news

Yup, I've read the same thing. Now, whether or not Foreman was actually a "wolf in sheep's clothing" we don't really know. But, if you look at the Cooney fight and compare it to all the other fights Foreman had in the years prior, you can see a huge shift in his motivation and even his hand speed.

My personal belief is Tyson would have had trouble with Foreman, even an old Foreman, based on style. George was the immovable object and Tyson only had one gear...forward. George had a good chin and deadly uppercuts, which would have been hitting Tyson on the way in....Foreman, even an old one, beats Tyson IMHO.

Mike Tyson77
05-16-2006, 01:19 PM
The 90's Foreman is stronger than anyone Tyson fought, had a better chin than anyone Tyson fought, was mentally tougher than anyone Tyson had fought up until Holyfield, and had a harder jab than anyone Tyson fought.

Holyfield said Foreman hit harder than Lennox Lewis, so if we can go by Holyfield who would know better than any one of us, Foreman would be the hardest hitter Tyson ever fought. Anyone that thinks this fight is a mismatch when this version of Tyson was taken 12 rounds by a one-armed, one punch Razor Ruddock is not being objective. Ruddock is inferior to Foreman in all of the above categories.

WOW! Tyson must be the GREATEST! When youre disapponited in a fighter for winning a UD and knocking the other guy down TWICE, you gotta be the greatest man! 12 rounds huh? That's right, Tyson TKO'd Ruddock the first fight knocking him down TWICE also. He must be the greatest.....

Yogi
05-16-2006, 03:06 PM
When youre disapponited in a fighter for winning a UD and knocking the other guy down TWICE, you gotta be the greatest man! 12 rounds huh? That's right, Tyson TKO'd Ruddock the first fight knocking him down TWICE also. He must be the greatest.....

I don't know why you'd want to emphasize the knockdowns Tyson scored against Ruddock by capitalizing them, because with the exception of possibly one there was nothing emphatic about them at all...In fact, the first knockdown Tyson scored in their first shouldn't have even been counted as such, because to me that was an obviously slip as Tyson didn't nearly land the punch that supposedly put Ruddock down.

Also the two knockdowns Tyson scored in the rematch were of the "ho hum" variety, as Ruddock was down for about four or five seconds in total time when including both of them. Once was from a glancing shot that barely looked to land & once was from a sneaky right hand counter that caught Ruddock when he may have been a little bit off balance (looked so)...Ruddock picked himself up quickly on both occasions and didn't appear to be at all hurt from the punches that put him down.

Three legitimate knockdowns in their two fights, but two were of the "flash knockdown" variety. And of course, the incorrect call that Steele made on the first knockdown wasn't the only **** up he made in that first fight...The stoppage was pretty much bull****, as well.

But whatever...I have a slightly higher opinion of Ruddock than does Sabbath, I'm sure, and for all-around performances against a fighter very willing and fairly capable of competing with him, I thought the Ruddock fights were some of the best I saw of Tyson was his pre-prison days.

Yogi
05-16-2006, 03:27 PM
** I've never run across that quote except when quoted by others. I asked George about Quarry rumors, and he only said that Quarry was a counter puncher that made a tough fight. On his old website he listed Quarry quite highly among heavies who never won a title.

He also said he never sparred with Quarry or considered a fight with him. Jerry lost every championship fight he was in, but George has a respect for him nonetheless.

Well since he defeated Lyle, Quarry was pretty emphatic in calling for a title shot against Foreman and just over a week after defeating Roman, Foreman was reported to "indicate" that he was willing to give Jerry a shot at the title (early Nov of 1973 was the indication as to when it was to take place)...And within a couple of days of Foreman reportedly making those statements is when the offers started coming in from around the states, and from what I read they were for well over a million bucks ($1.5 million was offered on a couple of occasions...not exactly the $5 million purse he made for Ali, but still pretty damn good for the time).

But obviously Big George didn't accept the offers for whatever reason and apparently there was a little bit of a fuss made in the press over the fact that he wouldn't sign to fight Quarry, as well as the organizations making a little bit out of it (the WBA threatened Foreman in Nov to start serious negotiations with Quarry or Ali).

Brassangel
05-16-2006, 04:18 PM
I almost forgot about the Ruddock fights. Those were pretty good. Can anyone post them here for convenience?