I just got some new fights into
my collection. I got the one with
Roberto Duran against Tommy Herns.
My uncle keeps saying Duran was so great.
I saw the tape when Duran quit against Sugar
Ray too. Now seeing Tommy Herns knock him out
with one punch. Why do people keep saying Duran
is so great especially old people.

I just got some new fights into
my collection. I got the one with
Roberto Duran against Tommy Herns.
My uncle keeps saying Duran was so great.
I saw the tape when Duran quit against Sugar
Ray too. Now seeing Tommy Herns knock him out
with one punch. Why do people keep saying Duran
is so great especially old people.


Yes Duran was that great. All thos fights you mentioned all happend when Duran was already past his prime and fighting well above his natural weight.

Prime Duran ruled the Lightweight division for a decade.

Yes Duran was that great. All thos fights you mentioned all happend when Duran was already past his prime and fighting well above his natural weight.

Prime Duran ruled the Lightweight division for a decade.



really he used to fight at
a light weight.

Exactly. You have to watch some of Duran's early fights to really appreciate his boxing talent. He really put a beating to some of the light weights he faced. He was a great fighter in my opinion.... As a side note even though he did get knocked out by Thomas "the hitman" Hearns, who by the way was in his prime, he also defeated Iran Barkley who KO'd Hearns and went the distance with Marvelous Marvin Hagler.

Why are you even asking this question? Of course Duran was an all-time great!!

i have to go find some
fight when he was a lightweight
than.

You say Tyson is the greatest of all time yet you question the greatness of Roberto Duran. Duran was a monster at lightweight and the greatest lightweight of all time in my opinion. He also more than held his own against fighters who were naturally bigger than him. People want to always rememeber Duran for quitting against Leonard in the rematch but don't want to remember how he beat Leonard in the first fight. Quitting was one of Duran's lowest points in his career but he has had tons more high points than low points.

Arguably the greatest 135 pounder ever.

A top 5 p4p guy all time.

One of the most ferocious and intense fighters ever.

The right hand that Tommy Hearns hit Duran with would have taken out some light heavyweights.

prime Pryor and Duran may have been unbeatable...trust me dude Duran deserves all his respect that he has "gained"

yes. roberto duran had vicious power and he made fights exciting. he's the greatest lightweight in recent memory

I just got some new fights into
my collection. I got the one with
Roberto Duran against Tommy Herns.
My uncle keeps saying Duran was so great.
I saw the tape when Duran quit against Sugar
Ray too. Now seeing Tommy Herns knock him out
with one punch. Why do people keep saying Duran
is so great especially old people.

duran is overrated..just like tyson...ppl are so in love with ppl who like to brawl..and have no respect for boxers like roy jones..its sad

duran is overrated..just like tyson...ppl are so in love with ppl who like to brawl..and have no respect for boxers like roy jones..its sad


Your custom title suits you well. Duran wasn't a person who just liked to brawl you "friggin idiot". If you knew anything about him then you'd know that he was an excellent boxer as well as brawler.

If you go and search out Durans fights as a lightweight you would not be asking this question. He ruled the lightweight division for a decade and had the same intimidation factor as your hero Tyson.

The general public loves brawls and knock outs.
If you ask me a majority of boxing fans got in to boxing because of the brawling.

When you love boxing, though, you appreciate those pure boxers..The kind of guys who do moves so smooth it makes you rewind the tape to see how exactly they executed such a move....and then you go and practice it in front of a mirror. Or is that just me?

Duran was doing 'nasty' when Tyson was still in his diapers, and doing it better. One of the biggest shames of boxing, is that most people didn't hear of Duran until he was well past his prime. What Duran accomplished past his prime, may be even more amazing then what he accomplished during it. Just due to the fact that he was so far removed from it. Imagine fighters like Oscar, Fenando, Mosely, Tyson, Lewis, Holyfield ..etc.. having multiple mega fights against the top of the competition for the next 10 years from now. That's what it would be like.

Duran was doing 'nasty' when Tyson was still in his diapers, and doing it better. One of the biggest shames of boxing, is that most people didn't hear of Duran until he was well past his prime. What Duran accomplished past his prime, may be even more amazing then what he accomplished during it. Just due to the fact that he was so far removed from it. Imagine fighters like Oscar, Fenando, Mosely, Tyson, Lewis, Holyfield ..etc.. having multiple mega fights against the top of the competition for the next 10 years from now. That's what it would be like.

Duran at lightweight in his prime gets schooled by Mosley at lightweight.

Duran at lightweight in his prime gets schooled by Mosley at lightweight.
Keep telling yourself that, I'm sure if you try hard enough you might can find 5 or 6 people out of 6 billion on earth who agree with you.

Keep telling yourself that, I'm sure if you try hard enough you might can find 5 or 6 people out of 6 billion on earth who agree with you.


Duran quit against Leonard who RELATIVELY didn't punch as hard as Mosley and wasnt as fast.. UD Sugar Shane

Dominated the Lightweight division.

Had 3 great fights with DeJesus.

Moved up to 147 and beat some guy name Leonard.

Beatup on hard hitting Cuevas and beat Moore for the 154 pound title.

Gave a Prime Hagler hell, did I mention he started out at Lightweight?

Beats Barkley who just KO'd Hearns for the 160 pound title at the the age of 38.

TOP 3 P4P all time IMO.

Duran was awesome in his prime, is too bad a lot of fighters only get remembered for what they did and how they moved and worked on their downhill slope.

Duran quit against Leonard who RELATIVELY didn't punch as hard as Mosley and wasnt as fast.. UD Sugar Shane

You are comparing Leonard to Mosley? :eek:

Who did Mosley beat at Lightweight? :confused:

Check that, who did Mosley beat? :D

Case Closed

duran is overrated..just like tyson...ppl are so in love with ppl who like to brawl..and have no respect for boxers like roy jones..its sad

Ha Duran was unstopable as a lightweight here are a few of his accomplishments from his website. (He stated his career like 74-1)

AREER HIGHLIGHTS

June 16, 2000: Won the NBA World Middleweight title in a fight vs. Pat Lawlor.

February 24, 1989: Took the WBC Middleweight Championship from Iran "The Blade" Barkley in a 15 round points victory.

June 6, 1983: Awarded WBA Junior Middleweight Championship when he knocked out Davey Moore in the eighth round.

June 20, 1980: Won 15 round decision when he out-muscled WBC Welterweight Champion Sugar Ray Leonard and took the world title.

June 26, 1972: Took WBA Lightweight Championship from Ken Buchanan in the 13th round. The fight was also Duran's 30th straight win, 19 of which were KOs.

Any fighter who beat the great Sugar Ray Leonard is another great fighter. No mas, notwithstanding.

Duran was not just a brawler the guy was a great boxer too and a hell of a defensive fighter. His head never staid still it was always going side to side bobbing and weaving. He knew how to take a fighter apart aswell not just rely on his punch.

Shane Mosley would get killed by Duran at 135. Like its been said Mosley fought no one at hat weight. Duran did not quit because he was taking a beating or anything cause he wasn't he quit because Ray Leonard got into his head.

I admire Duran for both his defensive and offensive (no-holds barred) skills. Yes I do believe he is one of the boxing greats.

Duran at lightweight in his prime gets schooled by Mosley at lightweight.


i agree with u...chavez would beat duran up..whitaker would outsmart/outpoint him..mosley would just beat the **** out of him..mayweather would outpoint him and so would meldrick taylor..if duran was beatting beat like chavez was by taylor he would have quit

this thread is laughable.

most are talking out of their arse, Leonard fought Duran at welterweight, Duran is universally accepted as the best lightweight ever. 11 successful defences after regaining the title. Mosely's best win at lightweight is over Jesse James Leija, and Jess sure aint Estaban de Jesus.

Moseley isnt fit to wipe the sweat from his ball sack at lightweight, do some research will you people. :rolleyes:

i agree with u...chavez would beat duran up..whitaker would outsmart/outpoint him..mosley would just beat the **** out of him..mayweather would outpoint him and so would meldrick taylor..if duran was beatting beat like chavez was by taylor he would have quit

Prime Duran vs Prime Chavez at 135 is the single best fantasy fight that could ever be made. And both of those guys destroy Mosley, Whitaker and Mayweather at 135. Easy.

Prime Duran vs Prime Chavez at 135 is the single best fantasy fight that could ever be made. And both of those guys destroy Mosley, Whitaker and Mayweather at 135. Easy.

I agree .

Its insane how many people here think that Duran would lose to Splenda Shane Mosely among others...the guy who's notable wins at 135 come in the form of Leija and a spent John John Molina :rolleyes:

Duran at 135 was a ****ing beast and it's quite clear that many who say otherwise haven't seen him fight at lower weights.

Duran/Chavez at 135 would be a hell of a fight. Whitaker would duplicate what he did to Chavez at any time in their careers.

I don't know the outcome of a Duran/Sweet Pea fight. Duran might catch up to him late in the fight and take him out.

Its insane how many people here think that Duran would lose to Splenda Shane Mosely among others...the guy who's notable wins at 135 come in the form of Leija and a spent John John Molina :rolleyes:

Duran at 135 was a ****ing beast and it's quite clear that many who say otherwise haven't seen him fight at lower weights.

Duran/Chavez at 135 would be a hell of a fight. Whitaker would duplicate what he did to Chavez at any time in their careers.

I don't know the outcome of a Duran/Sweet Pea fight. Duran might catch up to him late in the fight and take him out.

Whitaker wouldn't have beaten a prime JC at 135. No way. When they fought JC was past his prime and two weight categories heavier. And 135 was JC's best weight, imo, although the one in which he spent the least time.

Whitaker wouldn't have beaten a prime JC at 135. No way. When they fought JC was past his prime and two weight categories heavier. And 135 was JC's best weight, imo, although the one in which he spent the least time.


Whitakers style was the complete opposite of what Chavez succeeded against. Whitaker might even be knocked down...but he'd beat Chavez at any weight.

Whitakers style was the complete opposite of what Chavez succeeded against. Whitaker might even be knocked down...but he'd beat Chavez at any weight.

I just don't think Whitaker could take the punishment of a prime Chavez for 12 rounds at 135. I really don't.

Some you guys need to check out some tape of Whitaker during the mid 80s.

I was not impressed and many writers during the time agreed with me.

Prime Duran vs Prime Chavez at 135 is the single best fantasy fight that could ever be made. And both of those guys destroy Mosley, Whitaker and Mayweather at 135. Easy.

Duran was not a great boxer, he was a great fighter. He didn't have one punch KO power, but he was relentless and a bull. One thing is he was also dirty. A fight with him and Chavez would have been classic.
However, I beg to differ when you say they would have beaten Whittaker and PBF easy. Sweat Pea could arguably have beaten Duran, and I personally think he would. PBF, I don't think he would have beaten Duran, but maybe Chavez.
Duran was beaten in his prime by DeJesus, who was no Whittaker. Whittaker barely lost a round in him prime, let alone a fight.

Duran not a great boxer? The thing about Duran is that he was so ferocious and intense in the ring, people overlook his skill, especially as a boxer and defensive specialists. Duran excelled at both and is easily one of the most well rounded fighters to ever live. If you watch Duran closely in his prime, he was rarely hit by a clean shot. Most incoming punches were blocked, slipped, or grazing.

Duran could do it all in the thing. IMO, he's the greatest infighter of all-time and could beat anyone who ever fought at 135 and below.

Duran was not a great boxer, he was a great fighter. He didn't have one punch KO power, but he was relentless and a bull. One thing is he was also dirty. A fight with him and Chavez would have been classic.
However, I beg to differ when you say they would have beaten Whittaker and PBF easy. Sweat Pea could arguably have beaten Duran, and I personally think he would. PBF, I don't think he would have beaten Duran, but maybe Chavez.
Duran was beaten in his prime by DeJesus, who was no Whittaker. Whittaker barely lost a round in him prime, let alone a fight.

Duran WAS a great boxer and whoever says otherwise clearly didn't see him fight in the 70's, when he ruled the lightweights for the entire decade. DeJesus would have been an all-time great if not for Duran. Whitaker would have had nothing on a prime Duran at lightweight. And I mean nothing. And please, don't tell me you actually believe PBF would have beaten a prime Chavez at 135. PBF was rocked by (and probably lost to) Castillo, a fine fighter but not even half the boxer JC was. Chavez DESTROYS Floyd at 130, 135 and 140.

Your custom title suits you well. Duran wasn't a person who just liked to brawl you "friggin idiot". If you knew anything about him then you'd know that he was an excellent boxer as well as brawler.

I agree with you that Duran is both a boxer and a brawler, I like his swarming style, He is definitely one of the greatest lightweights that ever lived.

BTW I hate your sig. :D

If you really believe what's in your sig. I am betting 50M pts for Pacman on a straight bet.

WFT??

Roberto Duran was a great fighter!!

I agree with you that Duran is both a boxer and a brawler, I like his swarming style, He is definitely one of the greatest lightweights that ever lived.

BTW I hate your sig. :D

If you really believe what's in your sig. I am betting 50M pts for Pacman on a straight bet.


I think I have 38 mil on it with thrilla...

Ill go 50 mil straight up with you too...if you accept :cool:

Prime Duran vs Prime Chavez at 135 is the single best fantasy fight that could ever be made. And both of those guys destroy Mosley, Whitaker and Mayweather at 135. Easy.

hey dumb ass..u forgot 1 thing..whitaker did beat chavez...chavez and duran werent gifted fighters like mayweather and mosley were....chavez bulit up his record fighting bums in mexico..and every good fighter duran fought he lost

I just got some new fights into
my collection. I got the one with
Roberto Duran against Tommy Herns.
My uncle keeps saying Duran was so great.
I saw the tape when Duran quit against Sugar
Ray too. Now seeing Tommy Herns knock him out
with one punch. Why do people keep saying Duran
is so great especially old people.
Yes he was. Don't forget the way that he pushed Hagler just before being knocked out by Hearns. Also, that was one of only two knockout losses on his record. And don't forget Leonard-Duran I, either. Plus, he won a middleweight belt when he was 38. 25 pounds above his best weight he had enough to win a belt.
I mean, unless you're willing to hold Hearns losses against him, too or Leonard's draw with Hearns and his losses as well, then you have to admit that Duran was a great fighter.

I'm a friggin' idiot
Yes you are. Ignorant, too. Strong work.

Yes you are. Ignorant, too. Strong work.

dumb ass i didnt even put that there u geek..ur some lame ass from the suburbs whos never been in a fight in ur life nonthe less box just like most of the other ppl on here..all u do is know popular ppl...

hey dumb ass..u forgot 1 thing..whitaker did beat chavez...chavez and duran werent gifted fighters like mayweather and mosley were....chavez bulit up his record fighting bums in mexico..and every good fighter duran fought he lost

And you forgot another thing, you idiot. Chavez fought Sweet Pea a couple years past his prime, and at 147 Lbs. That's two weight categories heavier. Chavez's best weight was 135. But I guess you don't know anything about that, you being a dumb**** and all.

And you're totally exposed in your stupidity when you deny Duran's greatness. Duran, who was the king of the lightweights during the 70's and won the ****ing MIDDLEWEIGHT title 10 years later.

Stupid.

And you forgot another thing, you idiot. Chavez fought Sweet Pea a couple years past his prime, and at 147 Lbs. That's two weight categories heavier. Chavez's best weight was 135. But I guess you don't know anything about that, you being a dumb**** and all.

And you're totally exposed in your stupidity when you deny Duran's greatness. Duran, who was the king of the lightweights during the 70's and won the ****ing MIDDLEWEIGHT title 10 years later.

Stupid.


Their fight was actually at 140...and Chavez wasn't that far off his prime. He was somewhat slowed, but hey look the judges evened his weaknesses out by robbing Whitaker so its all good.

Edit: Check that maybe it was at 147 I forget. I know both guys came in around 140 tho.

Their fight was actually at 140...and Chavez wasn't that far off his prime. He was somewhat slowed, but hey look the judges evened his weaknesses out by robbing Whitaker so its all good.

Edit: Check that maybe it was at 147 I forget. I know both guys came in around 140 tho.

The fight was for the WBC Welterweight title. JC came in weighting 142, while Sweet Pea was at 145.

I know JC wasn't that far off his prime. That's why I said "two years" past his prime. And when you take into account Chavez workload, two years is a hell of a lot.

Chavez at light and, to a minor degree, at light welter, was unstoppable.

hey dumb ass..u forgot 1 thing..whitaker did beat chavez...chavez and duran werent gifted fighters like mayweather and mosley were....chavez bulit up his record fighting bums in mexico..and every good fighter duran fought he lost

Your full of it Duran beat Sugar among others. What a dumb post.

roberto duran boxed in 5 differnt decades, won 4 world titles, beat every light weight going, BUT he aint amercian :O that why some hate him, think 5 differnt decades, never be seen again, in his prime he beat srl and out of his prime nearly beat hagler, it seems to me if you aint from the usa you are crap,srl was good hagler was good herns was good but duran was the best fighter ever seen,

Originally Posted by dino
hey dumb ass..u forgot 1 thing..whitaker did beat chavez...chavez and duran werent gifted fighters like mayweather and mosley were....chavez bulit up his record fighting bums in mexico..and every good fighter duran fought he lost

lmao think you are the dum arse m8,

Yes Duran was that great. All thos fights you mentioned all happend when Duran was already past his prime and fighting well above his natural weight.

Prime Duran ruled the Lightweight division for a decade.

You know,

the same I feel: can be said about Shane Mosley.

People do not give him any credit because they have only seen him fight at welter and light middle. He Ruled his division with an Iron fist.

this thread is a joke right? was duran really great? dude he is like top 5 pound for pound ever

u all should understand that when this thread was started he said that he only saw Duran at the end of his career, he was asking for your opinions on duran, you can't fault him for not knowing.

I just got some new fights into
my collection. I got the one with
Roberto Duran against Tommy Herns.
My uncle keeps saying Duran was so great.
I saw the tape when Duran quit against Sugar
Ray too. Now seeing Tommy Herns knock him out
with one punch. Why do people keep saying Duran
is so great especially old people.

Watch the 1st Leonard fight...........Bad Mutha ****er

HOW MANY fighters who start out at 118 pounds go up to 160 pounds and fightt he best and still maintain power?

he kayoed esta ban de jesus(sry if spelt worng) twice once in the 11 and in the 12 who him self was a supreme figher he beat the blade and beat sugar ray lenard regard my many to be the best BOXER ever he was a fighter with a heart bigger then any other

he head 103 fights with 70 knock outs
boy he was without a dobt a great fighter any ppl that say other wise should not claim to be boxing fans(no disrespect intended)

Duran was doing 'nasty' when Tyson was still in his diapers.

I think that's a big part of the reason he asked the question, because he was either too young to remember Duran or wasn't into boxing when Duran fought, whereas he obviously watched Tyson's fights and was impressed with Tyson, I don't think he meant to disrespect Duran and his fans.

And I know this is going to sound nitpicky, but him quitting against Leonard was inexcusable IMO, he wasn't even hurt. And if you ask me, which I know no one is, he would have lost the first fight with Leonard too, if Leonard hadn't been so full of pride that he fought Duran's fight, although Duran was already well above his weight. Sorry, just had to say it, I'm a Sugar Ray fan.

Yea Duran did say "No Mas" against Leanord but he was also the first person to beat leanord. Took him the distance, 15 rounds.

damn i'm watchin the Hearns-Duran fight now
and yes Duran is on top 5 p4p fighter of all time

but DAMN Hearns has power

Hears is my hero, long live the hitman

After the second fight duran said that the reason he quit was because he had really bad stomach cramps that weakened his arms.

this thread is a joke right? was duran really great? dude he is like top 5 pound for pound ever


Not a joke. Just a thread from Miketyson dumb****, oops I mean Jr.

prime Pryor and Duran may have been unbeatable...trust me dude Duran deserves all his respect that he has "gained"

Duran WAS beaten in his prime by Esteban DeJesus. He was very dirty. He didn't have one-punch kayo power, but he was relentless. His style was hard to beat, but he was frustrated against slick boxers. He constantly fouled Ken Buchanen when they fought. He was great, but I think a guy like Sweet Pea or Benny Leonard could have beaten him.

duran definitely deserves to be at the ranked among the greats. of the fab 4 (duran, hearns, leonard, hagler) duran is probably the least skillful, but his determination and courage is just amazing. keeps on coming

Roberto Duran was obviously a great fighter and one of the greatest lightweights of all-time, if not the greatest. But still, I'd be pretty confident in saying that the great Ike Williams would've beaten him at lightweight, had they fought during the same era.

He didn't have one-punch kayo power

After getting knocked out by a single left hook from Duran in the 14th round of their title fight, I'm sure Ray Lampkin would've had a different opinion than you on that.

the question was asked by a kid who obviously was too young to remember duran in his prime, not his fault. duran at lightweight was an all time great, only benny leonard and pernell whitiker could have lived with him. yes he did lose to de jesus in a non title fight but beat him twice when the belts were at stake. marvin hagler, who beat him on points over 15 rounds in 1983, said he was the best fighter he faced. praise indeed from a man not used to handing out complements.

the question was asked by a kid who obviously was too young to remember duran in his prime, not his fault. duran at lightweight was an all time great, only benny leonard and pernell whitiker could have lived with him. yes he did lose to de jesus in a non title fight but beat him twice when the belts were at stake. marvin hagler, who beat him on points over 15 rounds in 1983, said he was the best fighter he faced. praise indeed from a man not used to handing out complements.

FINALLY SANITY RESTORED.
cant belive people are comparing mosely and duran Shane wouldnt have lasted 5 rounds. :boxing:

that night duran beat leonard, duran was unbeatable, duran said sugar man puched like a girl, mind you hagler said the same :)that duran that night would of beat any light weight up to any middle weight EVER, duran only had one weakness, and that was which duran you got into the ring with.
like i said befor he boxed in 5 differnt decades, that alone is amazing, and if he was american, no one would doubt his greatness:) and i cant belive some say shane mosley is in the same class :(

roberto duran faught 70 fights in his first 11 years with only 1 loss to Esteban De Jesus who he came back and defeated twice in that same timespan. he held the lightweight title for 7 of those first 11 years. he relinquished the title after having it nearly 8 years straight. he didn't lose it in a fight...he was on his way up to the welterweights where he won the title from sugar ray leonard. at this point he was 29 years old and had 73 fights behind him. that part of his career would be his best. he went on to fight 47 more fights before his careers end. losing 15 of those fights in weight classes well above his natural weight to some world class fighters that are recognized as greats today.(Sugar Ray Leonard, Wilfred Benitez, Marvin Hagler, Thomas Hearns, Vinny Pazienza, Hector Camacho) with a total of 120 fights 104 wins and by 69 ko. the math is easy, he lost 16 fights. his titles include 4 weight divisions including NBA Super Middleweight Title, WBC Middleweight Champion, WBA Junior Middleweight Champion, WBC Welterweight Champion, WBC Lightweight Champion, and the WBA Lightweight Champion. one can easily see that duran was a totally dominating force in the lightweight division and was able to have some success moving up. he was an animal in the ring that learned to hone his defensive skills and become a boxer puncher. my personal opinion is that roberto duran earned all the props he has been given as one of boxings p4p greats. he is one of only four to hold world titles at four different weights: lightweight (1972–1979), welterweight (1980), junior middleweight (1983), and middleweight (1989–1990).

btw....sugar shane has been fighting for 11 years and has only 44 fights with 4 losses. he held the lightweight title for two years, and held the welterweight title for a year and a half, the middle weight title for 6 months. 3 titles for a total of 4 years

Judge for yourself:

The word "legend" often appears in the same sentence with the name "Roberto Duran."
He had one of the longest careers (31 years) in sports history, arguably the longest in boxing.
Was 75 & 1 (56 KO's) at age 29 when he fought Leonard the first time.
Went on to capture his 3rd. and 4th. world titles way past his prime against bigger men.
Other than Muhammad Ali, is the only fighter of the modern era to be rated within the top 10 p4p ATG.
He is consistently rated amongst the top 10 greatest fighters of all time, with a 5th. place avarage rank (e. g. Robinson, Armstrong, Louis, Ali, Durán).http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/51i0Qu4ba0L._AA240_.jpg

Sources: http://boxing.about.com/od/history/a/ring_80_best.htm
http://boxing.about.com/od/history/l/aa123099a.htm
http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing/greatest/featureVideo?page=greatest150
http://www.koboxing.co.uk/vote7.php?lid=&sid=

Duran started his career at Super Bantamweight divison. Natural 120 pounder fighting 168 pound guys in his late 40s and early 50s... DAMN!

Duran started his career at Super Bantamweight divison. Natural 120 pounder fighting 168 pound guys in his late 40s and early 50s... DAMN!

please...
He was 17 the last time he weighed in at that weight, Duran was a natural lightweight (a big built natural lightweight). Let's not make him out to be god. He is "only" the best fighter of the last 40 years.

saying duran was past his prime vs ray leonard is pure ignorance, he was in his 20s! duran fought a bunch of nobodies @ 135, but thats not his fought. he wasnt that great he was good though.

He is one of the greats for sure, he faced the best beqat the best, lost to some of the best, but ruled the lightweight division with 2 stone fists.

saying duran was past his prime vs ray leonard is pure ignorance, he was in his 20s! duran fought a bunch of nobodies @ 135, but thats not his fought. he wasnt that great he was good though.

He may have been in his 20's yet he had already had 72 fights in 12 years and had jumped from lightweight to welterweight.

His prime was at lightweight. There is no disputing that. He was great at welter, but a little slower, and not as powerful or intense.

If you think Duran wasnt good your just plain stupid. I was fortunate enough to be born early enough to see a few of his fights when I was young. The guy is on most people top ten p4p of all time. Thats not even if you were going to do a lightweight p4p of all time. The people making these p4ps I'm talking about arent message board boxing fans, these are guys that have been around the game for a long time. I'm not saying everyone here gets all their knowledge of boxing from what they hear here, but some do. Saying Duran is no good, you should be ashamed, and I'm sure boxing as a whole would be ashamed as a whole to have you as a fan.

When Mayweather fights 100 times and gets beat eventually I'll start talking about how bad he is? Duran did not retire after 30 fights. Duran did not retire after he cleaned the lightweight division for years. That what makes him great.

yeah those fights wer when he was past his prime
he was def a hall of famer and he beat ray the 1st time
and top 5 greatest lightweights ever

I just got some new fights into
my collection. I got the one with
Roberto Duran against Tommy Herns.
My uncle keeps saying Duran was so great.
I saw the tape when Duran quit against Sugar
Ray too. Now seeing Tommy Herns knock him out
with one punch. Why do people keep saying Duran
is so great especially old people.

that's because, those old people were around when duran was fighting and they know how great he was. it's the sign of the times. that's why as legends get older and the new generation of fight fans come in, they give less credit more and more over the years to those great fighters. i grew up in the late 70's and 80's, and i remember all those great fighters, believe me hands of stone was and will always be a legend. you should buy his book, called the hands of stone, i liked it. also, he use to fight when the rounds were at 20 a fight.

hey dino, why every post you talk a bunch of mumbo jumbo. for realz i think you've drank yourself retarded. you need to go to aa, and get some help for drinking and no logic replies

Duran... Duran... Duran...

For a guy who has been retired for over six years, and hasn't had a significant fight since Iran Barkley (1989), Robeto Duran has sparked almost as much argument as Floyd Mayweather jr., who's still active.

What is it about this guy?

I just got some new fights into
my collection. I got the one with
Roberto Duran against Tommy Herns.
My uncle keeps saying Duran was so great.
I saw the tape when Duran quit against Sugar
Ray too. Now seeing Tommy Herns knock him out
with one punch. Why do people keep saying Duran
is so great especially old people.


Yes he was great. Check out his carrer before leonard! Consider where he came from and where he ended his career!

Just who at lightweight did he beat. If you go to boxrec.com...it is a bunch of fighters with losing records for the most part. he did beat Ray Leoanrd and is a great fighter, but Not above Ray or mayweather in my book. He beat Ray when ray willing...I repeat willingly chose to fight durans fight. Look what happened when he fought his fight...then Duran got beat by Benetiz and Heanrs..

Now I agree it was a higher weights, but you cant say past his prime at age 30-33 when we are still reserving judgment for mayweather at his age now, and yes Mayweather has moved up from 130 as well.

if u want to see duran fights to see how good and skilled he was, i think you should watch some of these fights:

palomino
leonard 1
moore
barkley
dejesus 2 and 3
wheatley
cuevas
bizzarro

Arguably the greatest 135 pounder ever.

A top 5 p4p guy all time.

One of the most ferocious and intense fighters ever.

The right hand that Tommy Hearns hit Duran with would have taken out some light heavyweights.
I agree 100% with this post. Roberto Duran was simply unbelievable, and he was one of the most exciting fighters I ever saw. Boxers, or should I say "fighters" of Duran's caliber appear only too infrequently. Boxing is starved for fighters of his grade.

Just who at lightweight did he beat. If you go to boxrec.com...it is a bunch of fighters with losing records for the most part. he did beat Ray Leoanrd and is a great fighter, but Not above Ray or mayweather in my book. He beat Ray when ray willing...I repeat willingly chose to fight durans fight. Look what happened when he fought his fight...then Duran got beat by Benetiz and Heanrs..

Now I agree it was a higher weights, but you cant say past his prime at age 30-33 when we are still reserving judgment for mayweather at his age now, and yes Mayweather has moved up from 130 as well.
Duran beat Benitez..........

edit: confused Pipino Cuevaz....he did lose to Wilfredo to clear up the brain fart.

But, Benitez was a great in his time as well....you cannot discredit Duran's career for losing to Benitez. My god, Duran (a natural LW-WW) beat IRAN BARKLEY for the middleweight title. Ahem...

Duran beat Benitez..........

no he didn't.

anyway, duran at lightweight beat some very good fighters like ken buchanan and esteban dejesus.

edit: i just read that u confused him with pipino. nevermind.

Duran beat Benitez..........Nope. He lost a 15 rounder for Benitez' light-middleweight crown. Take it from (if I may say so myself) Duran's #1 authority on this forum.

Seems like I'm a "Johnny Comelately" on this response. You addressed it while I paused for 15 min. before posting. :pat:

duran was an atg....now just imagine how much greater he would have been if he had some discipline outside the ring and with the fork.

Duran heamovment training invovle the speedbag, he hit his head on the speed bag and try to be consistant with it similar what you are doing with you hands.

He is also amazing skipping rope in sqaut position and could move his legs in and out.

Duran quite against SRL is that because he wasnt training well and was eating alot. even in the documentary SRL said that he knew Duran's culture so that is why he wanted a rematch.

As for his lightweight legacy he was fearsome but I didnt like the was he won his title with so many lowblows he should have been DQ instead of giving him a KO

Personally I see Pryor beating Duran at 135.............maybe. That is a horribly tough match to say who would win.

Nope. He lost a 15 rounder for Benitez' light-middleweight crown. Take from (if I may say so myself) Duran's #1 authority on this forum.
Yes, I know. As I said in my edit...I confused Benitez with Cuevez when I first read the post.

duran was an atg....now just imagine how much greater he would have been if he had some discipline outside the ring and with the fork.Quite true. That lack of discipline is best manifested in the way Durán looks today (see my signature) and the way he looked between fights before retiring in 2001. On the positive side, however, the controlled fury of Roberto Durán is best exemplified by the video link in blue text below...

Just who at lightweight did he beat. If you go to boxrec.com...it is a bunch of fighters with losing records for the most part. he did beat Ray Leoanrd and is a great fighter, but Not above Ray or mayweather in my book. He beat Ray when ray willing...I repeat willingly chose to fight durans fight. Look what happened when he fought his fight...then Duran got beat by Benetiz and Heanrs..

Now I agree it was a higher weights, but you cant say past his prime at age 30-33 when we are still reserving judgment for mayweather at his age now, and yes Mayweather has moved up from 130 as well.
Duran's record is 103-16. He fought from 1968-2001. From 1989 forward he incurred 9 of those losses in the Super Middleweight division.

From 1971-1978 he fought at Lightweight (135) 23 times by my count, and lost only one to Esteban De Jesus who was a great fighter in his own right. Duran and De Jesus had 3 fights at LW with Duran winning two. Note, he was also fighting at Jr. WW during those years as well.

Duran lost to Hearns and Benitez at Light Middleweight in the latter stage of his prime and well after moving out of the LW-Jr.WW divisions.

I believe my figures are accurate after making a run thru the numerous stats. If there are any errors they are nominal.

Ruled the lightweight devision for a decade. Probably the greatest light weight ever. Went something like 74-1. Probably P4P the hardest puncher ever. I may get laughed at for that, but the guy had a monsterous punch from 126-175. Now thats something. Beat a PRIME Ray Leonard. The only man to do so. Beat Barkley in one of the best fights anyone has ever seen. Won world titles in the 135,147,154 and 160 pounds. Won minor titles at 168 Pounds. Duran is an atg for sure.

Duran... Duran... Duran...

For a guy who has been retired for over six years, and hasn't had a significant fight since Iran Barkley (1989), Robeto Duran has sparked almost as much argument as Floyd Mayweather jr., who's still active.

What is it about this guy?

he is overrated for sure. an overachiever. never a great just very good. floyd would beat him easily if they fought.

he is overrated for sure. an overachiever. never a great just very good. floyd would beat him easily if they fought.
Floyd would get blasted right out of the ring at any weight class by Duran. Duran had great skill and power.

Ironic that Duran had over 100 fights. Mayflower has 38 and has already retired once. Floyd not even in Duran's class.

Exactly. You have to watch some of Duran's early fights to really appreciate his boxing talent. He really put a beating to some of the light weights he faced. He was a great fighter in my opinion.... As a side note even though he did get knocked out by Thomas "the hitman" Hearns, who by the way was in his prime, he also defeated Iran Barkley who KO'd Hearns and went the distance with Marvelous Marvin Hagler.


I seen Duran fight a couple of times.
I think he didn't possess a lot of speed, but he has a good 1 punch KO.
Would you agree with me there?

I just got some new fights into
my collection. I got the one with
Roberto Duran against Tommy Herns.
My uncle keeps saying Duran was so great.
I saw the tape when Duran quit against Sugar
Ray too. Now seeing Tommy Herns knock him out
with one punch. Why do people keep saying Duran
is so great especially old people.


I saw a 50 year old Duran lose to Camacho, you're right, he sucked.

I seen Duran fight a couple of times.
I think he didn't possess a lot of speed, but he has a good 1 punch KO.
Would you agree with me there?
No. Duran had great handspeed and KO power in both hands. You need to see him fight at LW-WW to really understand what Duran was about.

he is overrated for sure. an overachiever. never a great just very good. floyd would beat him easily if they fought.

I guess by that logic Sugar Ray Robinson was extremely overrated too, right?

No. Duran had great handspeed and KO power in both hands. You need to see him fight at LW-WW to really understand what Duran was about.

Yea well, I never got to see him fight live, so I don't know how good he is.
Will have to browse youtube and other clips of him to judge him.

he is overrated for sure. an overachiever. never a great just very good. floyd would beat him easily if they fought.To include Mayweather in a discussion about Duran is an act of blasphemy. The former could not carry the latter's jock strap, let alone step into the same ring with him, to say nothing about a boxing match.

he is overrated for sure. an overachiever. never a great just very good. floyd would beat him easily if they fought.

HA HA HA!!!!!!
you were joking right?

duran p4p was one of the best ever. at lightweight he was an unstoppable force even at heavier weights his will to win carried him through alot of difficult fights.

floyd on the other hand is largely untested. he may do well but right now we doont know!

I guess by that logic Sugar Ray Robinson was extremely overrated too, right?

Hell yeah SRR is overrated to an extent. People believe is level of talent can never be achieved but the man is HUMAN and othe HUMANS will arrive on the scene that can do some of the things he has done.

Yes he was that great

Hell yeah SRR is overrated to an extent. People believe is level of talent can never be achieved but the man is HUMAN and othe HUMANS will arrive on the scene that can do some of the things he has done.

i think u are right to a degree i hate all this crap the old fighters are the best Muhammed Ali was a great Heavyweight, he had did'nt have a punch and he struggled with Joe Frazier because of his style ,IMO Mike Tyson would have beaten Muhammed Ali he was a lot more illusive than Frazier & punched harder and faster than Frazier in his prime could take a punch had good stamina

Duran has a bad habit of not preparing properly for his fights. Especially for his 1st rematch with Ray and his fight with Hearns.

I just got some new fights into
my collection. I got the one with
Roberto Duran against Tommy Herns.
My uncle keeps saying Duran was so great.
I saw the tape when Duran quit against Sugar
Ray too. Now seeing Tommy Herns knock him out
with one punch. Why do people keep saying Duran
is so great especially old people.
Duran was great. A HOF.

But not because he did this and that.

It's because the odds were always stacked high against him and although he mostly got beat, one has to admire his courage.

He is great.

I just got some new fights into
my collection. I got the one with
Roberto Duran against Tommy Herns.
My uncle keeps saying Duran was so great.
I saw the tape when Duran quit against Sugar
Ray too. Now seeing Tommy Herns knock him out
with one punch. Why do people keep saying Duran
is so great especially old people.
@ HIS BEST WEIGHT HE WAS UNSTOPPABLE A FIRE BREATHING BULL........WHEN HE MOVED UP IN WEIGHT IS WHEN HE STARTED TO LOSE HE IS THE ONLY MAN TO BEAT LEONARD IN HIS PRIME.........AND YOU ALWAYS NO MATTER WHAT WEIGHT HE WENT UP TO YOU HAD TO RESPECT HIS SKILL AND ESPICIALLY HIS POWER...............HANDS OF STONE! ! ! !:duh:

Everyone who doubts Durans greatness.....watch him fight De Jesus, Cuevas, Palamino, Leonard, Buchanan, Moore.

The older Duran...Barkley and Hagler.

Hell yeah SRR is overrated to an extent. People believe is level of talent can never be achieved but the man is HUMAN and othe HUMANS will arrive on the scene that can do some of the things he has done.

i agree! alot of so called 'boxing experts' suggest that he is the only fighter to be considered for p4p honours and that others such as hagler jones etc are far beneath him.
SRR certainly has a good case for p4p king but IMO not much more than hagler duran and jones.

i think u are right to a degree i hate all this crap the old fighters are the best Muhammed Ali was a great Heavyweight, he had did'nt have a punch and he struggled with Joe Frazier because of his style ,IMO Mike Tyson would have beaten Muhammed Ali he was a lot more illusive than Frazier & punched harder and faster than Frazier in his prime could take a punch had good stamina

tyson and frazier were very different fighters. the reason frazier hurt ali was his stamina and spirit. frazier kept coming foward and throwing punches. he was also very decptive.

tyson would probably win the first few rounds against ali. ali dancing around with tyson making lunging attacks, some succesful some less so. ali would be delivering counter punches everytime tyson made a mistake.

after 3 rounds or so tyson would slow down. ali would pepper him as he came in thn he would hold. frazier was still effective this close, tyson wasnt!

ali would frustrate tyson very easily i can see ali by late ko or ud

Duran has a bad habit of not preparing properly for his fights. Especially for his 1st rematch with Ray and his fight with Hearns.As much as he loved to fight, he prefered eating to training, often ballooning in excess of 200 pounds between fights. Given his natural talent, it's almost scary to imagine how much better he would've been if he were more disciplined. Instead of Sugar Ray Robinson, he would've been the universally accepted greatest p4p of all time.

Duran was great. A HOF.

But not because he did this and that.

It's because the odds were always stacked high against him and although he mostly got beat, one has to admire his courage.

He is great.I think you meant to say "even when he got beat" one had to admire his courage. I don't think you would be extolling the virtues of a fighter who "mostly got beat."

HA HA HA!!!!!!
you were joking right?

duran p4p was one of the best ever. at lightweight he was an unstoppable force even at heavier weights his will to win carried him through alot of difficult fights.

floyd on the other hand is largely untested. he may do well but right now we doont know!

how many divisions did duran dominate, how many ring titles did he win and defend:ugh:

Duran, when focused, had a pretty slick defense. He can slip a lot of punches most fighters couldn't. Even when he was over the hill and fighting a younr Iran Barkley, he was able to keep Barkley's power punches whizzing over his head.

how many divisions did duran dominate, how many ring titles did he win and defend:ugh:Even though the tone of your question is transparently rhetorical, I'll answer it anyway: He dominated the Lightweight division in his prime and won a total of four titles, three past his prime.

Any more questions?

how many divisions did duran dominate, how many ring titles did he win and defend:ugh:

Duran was easily among the greatest lightweights of all time. He achieved a peak record of 72-1 that included winning the lightweight and welterweight crowns. He successfully defended the lightweight title 12 times, 11 by kayo. Duran was a strong, swarming type fighter who was so much more than just a swarmer. He had outstanding defense, slipping punches and countering with the best of them. He was really only knocked out one time in over 100 fights against Thomas Hearns at Jr. Middleweight. Duran became the only lightweight champion to win the middleweight title when he defeated the much bigger and stronger Iran Barkley

Most people think of duran as the hands of stone, the macho mexican, moving forward taking punishment like the stereotypical mexican small fighter.
His persona lead people to believe that and he had a good ko record, BUT!
IN FACT duran was the greatest DEFENSIVE fighter of all time and the originator and perfector of the slipping and counter punching styles used my PBF and Bernard today. At lighter weights duran had pop and could counterpunch his way to KO's against Hearns? No.
Watch a great fight, Duran vs Iran barkley

1989-02-24 : Convention Center, Atlantic City, NJ, USA : Roberto Duran beat Iran Barkley by SD in round 12 of 12
WBC Middleweight Title
Referee: Joe Cortez
Judges Scoring: Tom Kaczmarek 116-112 (Duran), Dave Brown 116-113 (Barkley), Giuseppe Ferrari 118-112 (Duran)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Barkley was down in the 11th round.
Fight was named Ring Magazine Fight of the Year.

I remember people thinking that Barkley would really hurt him..like KILL him..
Don't forget Roberto started fighting at 140! and didn't go to 150+ till after 30 fights
He fought Hearns at lt middle and hey! Tommy was no slouch! Duran got tagged and then lay on the ropes egging Tommy to hit him! not the best game plan!

I loved roberto!

Duran was a great defensive fighter, but it is a stretch to compare him defensivly with a Willie Pepp. Dominated the Lightweight division like no other. However I do challenge all to review his resume on Box Rec. There are a lot ..a awful lot of Bums on that resume.

Also, as was mentioned in this thread. Every time Duran lost his fans create a list of excuses.

I would simly say, that at lightweight Duran pound per pound was one of the top 10 fighters ever. When he moved up he could not dominate the Leonards, hearns, Benitez's, Hagler's. He beat Ray farily, but we all know and those who chose not to accept this fact simply dont want to accept the truth, but we all know that the victory was gained by Leonard deciding to not box him...However, Duran still moved up from Lightweight and beat Ray at Welter and is the only person during Ray;s peak years to beat him. Duran also moved up and beat other good fighters in Moore and Barkley.

I have been on many boards debating Duran's greatness, but I have always insisted he is a top 10..Which is astounding. So I am not saying Duran was not great, What I am saying is it is a disservice to great fighters who do not make excuses, that evertime duran lost...there most have been some other reason other than he met a style or a person who that specific day, had durans number.

Duran was a great defensive fighter, but it is a stretch to compare him defensivly with a Willie Pepp. Dominated the Lightweight division like no other. However I do challenge all to review his resume on Box Rec. There are a lot ..a awful lot of Bums on that resume.This is one of the lamest arguments used to discredit the achievements of a fighter. There are proportionately far more "bums" in boxing than elite fighters. Consequently, it is impossible for any fighter to have a majority of elite fighters on his resumé, let alone victories over them.

Panamiac...I suggest before you speak you research.....For the sakes of muting any weak arguement that I could envision one would have by saying everyone has horrible bums their first several fights...Which is true but not as far deep into their career as Duran had. I will give a high level sampling of his opposition after he became a world champion at the lightweight division, which should show just how weak most of his opposition was he faced ONCE HE BECAME champion, vs fighters like Mayweather Mosley Whitacker, Leonard who routinely stepped in with the best night in night out. Now before I do, I want to make my point clear. Duran fought great great figghters, and anyone who says different is flat out ignorant, that is not my argument, my arguement is that when people try to throw his 71-1 record around as if he was god for fighting 72 fights, I think you have to realize that the majority of those fights were vs far less quality fighters than the majority of a Leonard resume..... A lot of those fighters Duran had no business being in the same country with, much less the same ring. They were glorified sparring partners at best. Take for example the argument I hear that Leonard gets crap for facing a Larry Bonds after he fought Duran twice, benetiz, before Kalule and hearns.....Who has ever fought a stretch like that.....and wins all but one, comes back after retirement and fights Hagler no Tune up!.....then Laland, Hearns., duran,, then Norris.....My God...that is geting in the ring everytime vs top fighters......If ray had fought the bums that Duran had,,,or if mayweather had fought the bums that Duran had...he would be kicked out of boxing. Mayweather already gets ridiculed for handpicking his opponents, and he is handpicking DLH, Hatton, etc....Night in Night out... Not that Duran does not have names on his resume, but why doesnt the media judge duran the same as everyone else. Here is a sample of fighters he faced after becoming a champion.

Jose peterson 23-14-1
AlvaroRojas 3-4
Vilomar Fernandez 19-5-1
Javier Muniz 18-6-2
Bernardo Diaz 1-4
Adolfo Viruet 14-3
Ezequiel Obando 0-3

The list goes on and on.....These were fighters AFTER he became a champion. So yes duran dominated the lightweight division, no doubt about it, however when throwing the record of 70-1 around at people as if he was a god,,,Had leonard taken a fight like that even after the group of fighters he faced, had he faced a fighter with a record of 18-6 or 1-4 He would have been dismissed as cherry picker, ducking the hearns Hagler etc...talked about forever,,,But Duran does it, Duran fans never mention that most of his fights at lightweight were vs questionable oppostion vs what the Leonard, and mayweather have to face night in night out.

We already know what Leonard faced..Let me show you what mayweather faces night in night out since becoming a champ.

Genare hernandez 38-1-1
angel manfredy 25-2-1
Carlos Rios 44-2-1
Justin Juuko 33-2-1
Carlos Gerena 34-2
Gregoria Vargas 40-6-1
Emanual Augustus 22-16-4*
Diego Corrales 33-0
Carlos hernandez 33-2-1
Jesus Chavez 35-1
Jose Luis Castillo 45-4
Jose Louis Castill 46-5
Victoriano Sosa 35-2-2
Phillip Ndou 31-1
Demarcus Corley 28-2-1
Henry Bruseles 21-2-1
Artuo Gatti 39-6
Shamba Mitchell 56-4
Zab judah 34-3
Baldimir 43-9
DlH 38-4

1 fighter with a resume that he faced that comparible to the long list of bums that Duran faced routinely. This is again not to discredit Duran for his great achievement as to me he is a top 10, but you have to be honest even if your a Duran fan...his 70-1 record at lightwegiht was padded AFTER HE BECAME CHAMPION with a lot of fights that he had no business taking.

I'll just sum it up in one word "no"

But he was fun to watch "no mas"

This is not even up for debate of course he is ATG one my favorite Duran fights in when he is 37 and beats Iran Barkley for World Middleweight Title one of the most amazing things i've ever seen in boxing remember this was a guy that started at Lightweight.

Panamiac...I suggest before you speak you research.....For the sakes of muting any weak arguement that I could envision one would have by saying everyone has horrible bums their first several fights...Which is true but not as far deep into their career as Duran had. I will give a high level sampling of his opposition after he became a world champion at the lightweight division, which should show just how weak most of his opposition was he faced ONCE HE BECAME champion, vs fighters like Mayweather Mosley Whitacker, Leonard who routinely stepped in with the best night in night out. Now before I do, I want to make my point clear. Duran fought great great figghters, and anyone who says different is flat out ignorant, that is not my argument, my arguement is that when people try to throw his 71-1 record around as if he was god for fighting 72 fights, I think you have to realize that the majority of those fights were vs far less quality fighters than the majority of a Leonard resume..... A lot of those fighters Duran had no business being in the same country with, much less the same ring. They were glorified sparring partners at best. Take for example the argument I hear that Leonard gets crap for facing a Larry Bonds after he fought Duran twice, benetiz, before Kalule and hearns.....Who has ever fought a stretch like that.....and wins all but one, comes back after retirement and fights Hagler no Tune up!.....then Laland, Hearns., duran,, then Norris.....My God...that is geting in the ring everytime vs top fighters......If ray had fought the bums that Duran had,,,or if mayweather had fought the bums that Duran had...he would be kicked out of boxing. Mayweather already gets ridiculed for handpicking his opponents, and he is handpicking DLH, Hatton, etc....Night in Night out... Not that Duran does not have names on his resume, but why doesnt the media judge duran the same as everyone else. Here is a sample of fighters he faced after becoming a champion.

Jose peterson 23-14-1
AlvaroRojas 3-4
Vilomar Fernandez 19-5-1
Javier Muniz 18-6-2
Bernardo Diaz 1-4
Adolfo Viruet 14-3
Ezequiel Obando 0-3

The list goes on and on.....These were fighters AFTER he became a champion. So yes duran dominated the lightweight division, no doubt about it, however when throwing the record of 70-1 around at people as if he was a god,,,Had leonard taken a fight like that even after the group of fighters he faced, had he faced a fighter with a record of 18-6 or 1-4 He would have been dismissed as cherry picker, ducking the hearns Hagler etc...talked about forever,,,But Duran does it, Duran fans never mention that most of his fights at lightweight were vs questionable oppostion vs what the Leonard, and mayweather have to face night in night out.

We already know what Leonard faced..Let me show you what mayweather faces night in night out since becoming a champ.

Genare hernandez 38-1-1
angel manfredy 25-2-1
Carlos Rios 44-2-1
Justin Juuko 33-2-1
Carlos Gerena 34-2
Gregoria Vargas 40-6-1
Emanual Augustus 22-16-4*
Diego Corrales 33-0
Carlos hernandez 33-2-1
Jesus Chavez 35-1
Jose Luis Castillo 45-4
Jose Louis Castill 46-5
Victoriano Sosa 35-2-2
Phillip Ndou 31-1
Demarcus Corley 28-2-1
Henry Bruseles 21-2-1
Artuo Gatti 39-6
Shamba Mitchell 56-4
Zab judah 34-3
Baldimir 43-9
DlH 38-4

1 fighter with a resume that he faced that comparible to the long list of bums that Duran faced routinely. This is again not to discredit Duran for his great achievement as to me he is a top 10, but you have to be honest even if your a Duran fan...his 70-1 record at lightwegiht was padded AFTER HE BECAME CHAMPION with a lot of fights that he had no business taking.
Flawed analysis. Many of Floyd's opponents that you listed were just bums with padded records themselves. Bruseles for instance 21-2-1, was an overrated punching bag. Anybody that watches boxing knows that. Back in Duran's day, fighter's records were not nearly as groomed as they are today.

Furthermore, Duran had over 100 fights during his career. Mayweather had 38and retired. Much greater percentage of bums on Floyd's resume than on Duran's, IMO.

Duran >> Floyd. Absolutely no comparison.

Not disagreeing that many of Floyds opponents had padded records. Notice that hte fighters I listed for Duran had "Horrible" records. Not simply bad records. Also, this is not an attempt to inflate Mayweathers resume as legendary, but my arguement is that Duran's list of opponets since he became champion has a large amount of questionable opponents, fighters who would not get title shots vs a Mayweather or Leonard or many fighters today.

Was it a different era, Yes. I agree, As Sugar Ray Robinson had a bunch of bums too, but Robinson also moved up with greater success than Duran did. Also, No knock vs Latino fighters as it think many of greater fighters are latino..Arguello, Sanchez, Curan, Chavez, Barrera, Morreles,,,however Duran just like Chavez fought a buch of fights south of the border that simply are not the quality of fights that are demanded in the states.

So my point to simplify is that Duran was great is a all time top 10, but you have to be honest in your assessment and understand that he had a very padded record of low quality opposition even after he became a champion.

I just got some new fights into
my collection. I got the one with
Roberto Duran against Tommy Herns.
My uncle keeps saying Duran was so great.
I saw the tape when Duran quit against Sugar
Ray too. Now seeing Tommy Herns knock him out
with one punch. Why do people keep saying Duran
is so great especially old people.

If want to know how good he was watch this

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/ohS570Pz6nc&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ohS570Pz6nc&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

Not disagreeing that many of Floyds opponents had padded records. Notice that hte fighters I listed for Duran had "Horrible" records. Not simply bad records. Also, this is not an attempt to inflate Mayweathers resume as legendary, but my arguement is that Duran's list of opponets since he became champion has a large amount of questionable opponents, fighters who would not get title shots vs a Mayweather or Leonard or many fighters today.

Was it a different era, Yes. I agree, As Sugar Ray Robinson had a bunch of bums too, but Robinson also moved up with greater success than Duran did. Also, No knock vs Latino fighters as it think many of greater fighters are latino..Arguello, Sanchez, Curan, Chavez, Barrera, Morreles,,,however Duran just like Chavez fought a buch of fights south of the border that simply are not the quality of fights that are demanded in the states.

So my point to simplify is that Duran was great is a all time top 10, but you have to be honest in your assessment and understand that he had a very padded record of low quality opposition even after he became a champion.
All boxers have had some padding or "tune ups." That's just a part of the sport. But, you're now talking about a universally recognized all time great with over 100 fights. Who are you to say that one of those "south of the border" fights was not competitive?

You appear to me to be a guy that probably didn't see much of Duran's career. It's a common mistake with posters around here that one can simply pull up a fighter's stats and now understand that fighter's whole career. Let me tell you something....you can't. If you weren't around to see it, then you missed it. Therefore, if some old timer tells you that Duran was one of the true all time greats of the ring, then I'd consider listening and learning.

Panamaniac...I suggest before you speak you research.....For the sakes of muting any weak arguement that I could envision one would have by saying everyone has horrible bums their first several fights...Which is true but not as far deep into their career as Duran had... Not that Duran does not have names on his resume, but why doesnt the media judge duran the same as everyone else. Here is a sample of fighters he faced after becoming a champion.

Jose peterson 23-14-1
AlvaroRojas 3-4
Vilomar Fernandez 19-5-1
Javier Muniz 18-6-2
Bernardo Diaz 1-4
Adolfo Viruet 14-3
Ezequiel Obando 0-3Your long-winded rantings beg for a little perspective. Duran fought 119 times, are those the only bums you can find? Morever, he fought most of the bums toward the end of his career, in his mid-forties, when he was only doing it for the payday, after having squandered most of his wealth.

As for "the Media" judging Duran favorably, didn't you know their bias is due to the fact that they are all Panamanian?!

Wow You want me to list all the bums...There are over 20 of them.....And no I was only referring to his fights at Lightweight.

As for knowing Duran's careeer, etc..I was a fan of Durans, and like him back then, only I liked Ray better. Also, I agree Box Rec doesnt give us the ability to subjectivley review ones career, but the funny thing that Duran supporters always do is discredit factual objective information, because it shows that Duran is a all time great but that he was not the God that many try to make him out to be.

If we are goinig to reveiw ones Career then yes you do look at his fights,,and Tune ups is a great excuse especially when I am referring to about 20 or so of these fights before he moved up to Welter. There are not that many tune up's in the world. I am not here debating Durans greatness, all I am pointing out to you all is that if you all are going to say Duran was 70-1 at lightweight and that justifies him being considered better than Mayweather, Leonard etc...I say that once Mayweather and leonard became champs or even on the radar screen they DID not fight the fighter with poor records that Duran faced, and if these fights that Duran faced in Mexico was very competitive and the fighter had a record of 1-4 then hmmm maybe you have some questions about Duran.

I ask each of you this, when your responding ask yourself would you say the same thing if it was anyone else? Would you say that Roy Jones who is often accused of a weak resume, would you give him the same break Duran gets. Or If mayweather had moved up and lost repeatedly as Duran has and they are roughtly the same age when making the move up...would you give Mayweather the same benefit of the doubt. When Mosley lost to Forrest twice, and Wright does Mosely get the benefit of excuses as to why he lost, and discredit the fighter who beat him as happens with every fight that duran losses. Dejesus, Leonard, hearns...according to Duran fans it was not because of the great efforts by the fighter but it is because duran was not focuses, or did nt eat, or was not himself......That is the point that I simply laugh at when debating about Duran. I will be the first to tell you that I loved him and what he did for the sport and that he would fight anybody,,but we do have to judge him honestly and by the same standards we judge others.

Wow You want me to list all the bums...There are over 20 of them.....And no I was only referring to his fights at Lightweight.

As for knowing Duran's careeer, etc..I was a fan of Durans, and like him back then, only I liked Ray better. Also, I agree Box Rec doesnt give us the ability to subjectivley review ones career, but the funny thing that Duran supporters always do is discredit factual objective information, because it shows that Duran is a all time great but that he was not the God that many try to make him out to be.

If we are goinig to reveiw ones Career then yes you do look at his fights,,and Tune ups is a great excuse especially when I am referring to about 20 or so of these fights before he moved up to Welter. There are not that many tune up's in the world. I am not here debating Durans greatness, all I am pointing out to you all is that if you all are going to say Duran was 70-1 at lightweight and that justifies him being considered better than Mayweather, Leonard etc...I say that once Mayweather and leonard became champs or even on the radar screen they DID not fight the fighter with poor records that Duran faced, and if these fights that Duran faced in Mexico was very competitive and the fighter had a record of 1-4 then hmmm maybe you have some questions about Duran.

I ask each of you this, when your responding ask yourself would you say the same thing if it was anyone else? Would you say that Roy Jones who is often accused of a weak resume, would you give him the same break Duran gets. Or If mayweather had moved up and lost repeatedly as Duran has and they are roughtly the same age when making the move up...would you give Mayweather the same benefit of the doubt. When Mosley lost to Forrest twice, and Wright does Mosely get the benefit of excuses as to why he lost, and discredit the fighter who beat him as happens with every fight that duran losses. Dejesus, Leonard, hearns...according to Duran fans it was not because of the great efforts by the fighter but it is because duran was not focuses, or did nt eat, or was not himself......That is the point that I simply laugh at when debating about Duran. I will be the first to tell you that I loved him and what he did for the sport and that he would fight anybody,,but we do have to judge him honestly and by the same standards we judge others.
Then by all means apply that same standard to Floyd and of course, Julio Ceasar Chavez. Please analyze prime Chavez v. prime Leonard for me while you're at it.

The point is that retroactively analysing a resume is no substitute for actually viewing the fighter in action in his prime. When I do that, it is easy to agree that Duran is one of the pound for pound greats that ever set foot in the ring.

I do apply the same standard to floyd and Chavez and Leonard. I will break it down like this. Duran is one of the greats, so is Chavez, so is Mayweather, Leonard etc... I have viewed Duran in action during his prime. I simply do not think beating the fighters he beat at lightweight, allows us to automatically assign Roberto Duran as better than any other fighter that ever lived, especially when we see the repeated ass whipping he got when he traveld north at the age of 29. You say judge Mayweather the same, Mayweather is undefeated at Lightweight, and jr welter, and welter an super welterweight.
Duran lost at lighweight, welter super welter.. all by the age of 33....And still round 1/3 of the fights he fought at lightweight after becoming a champion were a joke,,and you can not find fighters on Mayweather or leonard resume after they became champions that have records of 1-4.

I do apply the same standard to floyd and Chavez and Leonard. I will break it down like this. Duran is one of the greats, so is Chavez, so is Mayweather, Leonard etc... I have viewed Duran in action during his prime. I simply do not think beating the fighters he beat at lightweight, allows us to automatically assign Roberto Duran as better than any other fighter that ever lived, especially when we see the repeated ass whipping he got when he traveld north at the age of 29. You say judge Mayweather the same, Mayweather is undefeated at Lightweight, and jr welter, and welter an super welterweight.
Duran lost at lighweight, welter super welter.. all by the age of 33....And still round 1/3 of the fights he fought at lightweight after becoming a champion were a joke,,and you can not find fighters on Mayweather or leonard resume after they became champions that have records of 1-4.
No...you are clearly not applying the same standard because you see some fighters with losing records on Duran's resume. This is comparing apples to oranges. Who cares if Duran lost one fight out of 71 at lightweight? That's still 71 fights. Twice as many as Floyd's whole career and in a time when boxers' records were not groomed as they are today. Mayweather cannot compare to Duran at lightweight and that was Floyd's most dominant phase. After Castillo II (135) Floyd fought 5 absolute bums in a row, skipped fighting the true champ of 140 in Tszyu, and then has cherry picked and ran from crap after that.

You're a statitician and I very seriously doubt that you saw Duran in his prime at all. I'll give you Ray Leonard, even though he did lose to Duran, but mentioning Floyd in the same breath with Duran is suspect. When Floyd moves up to middleweight and defeats a fighter of the caliber of Iran Barkley, then we can start talking about Floyd as being in the same ball park with Duran. However, I'm absolutely sure that will never happen. I suspect you are too.

I just got some new fights into
my collection. I got the one with
Roberto Duran against Tommy Herns.
My uncle keeps saying Duran was so great.
I saw the tape when Duran quit against Sugar
Ray too. Now seeing Tommy Herns knock him out
with one punch. Why do people keep saying Duran
is so great especially old people.


Yes, he really was that great, and I'll give you just one reason why he was so great:

He started his career at 118lbs. and his last fight was at 175lbs. He climbed weight divisions and continued to win as he rose in weight. The guy was a freak.

No...you are clearly not applying the same standard because you see some fighters with losing records on Duran's resume. This is comparing apples to oranges. Who cares if Duran lost one fight out of 71 at lightweight? That's still 71 fights. Twice as many as Floyd's whole career and in a time when boxers' records were not groomed as they are today. Mayweather cannot compare to Duran at lightweight and that was Floyd's most dominant phase. After Castillo II (135) Floyd fought 5 absolute bums in a row, skipped fighting the true champ of 140 in Tszyu, and then has cherry picked and ran from crap after that.

A lot of dodging went on back then to, don't kid yourself. A fighter can't fight everyone.

Duran was a good fighter no doubt, be like all old fighter he get's over rated to the extreme by old fans.

Fighters back in the day sometimes had 3 fights per month, but nowadays we have health checks which won't allow this. Still, every fighter spars every day so it's no difference.

Flawed analysis. Many of Floyd's opponents that you listed were just bums with padded records themselves. Bruseles for instance 21-2-1, was an overrated punching bag. Anybody that watches boxing knows that. Back in Duran's day, fighter's records were not nearly as groomed as they are today.

Furthermore, Duran had over 100 fights during his career. Mayweather had 38and retired. Much greater percentage of bums on Floyd's resume than on Duran's, IMO.

Duran >> Floyd. Absolutely no comparison.

Times are different you may never see a 100 fight fighter ever again, especially one of Floyd's caliber. Mayweather fights in MEGA fights. These fights take 4-6 months to promote AT THE LEAST. That means you can only see him fight twice a year even though he wants to fight much more it just isn't possible.

When have i ever said Mayweather is as good as Duran, even though I think that his style would cause Duran all sorts of fits at any weight. Mayweather is better defensivly than Leonard ever was, and would not go toe to toe with Duran. I do think Duran would be more dominant than mayweather would be. You say I am a statitician..Does that poition pay good money...LOL

I think you have to look at the facts when objectively discussing these fighters, then add in subjective reasoning. Also your right that 70-1 is all time great...That is not my point, my point again is look at the quality of fights Duran had...lets say this from the time Duran beat Ken Buchanon..and yes I watched duran during this time.... he was fabulous, dominat, very quick and had great defense..The total package..but he was not invincible....he could be beaten by a boxer. From the time duran became a champion he faced 22 fighter who had records that ranged form 0-3 to 18-6-2.... This was during his peak years, at his peak weight, not tune ups..Simple fighters that Duran had no business scheduling a boxing match with, and these fights have to be factored in when people are hyping up all this praise on durans lighteight record...... You do not see these type of fights on most other modern fightrs. If they did, you would have a new website blasting leonard or Maywether for scheduling a fight with a figher with a record of 1-4.

I never hear anyone discussing that,or how Duran got beaten repeatedly when he moved north. Duran fans cant and wont discuss it becasue it is factual, the only thing they attempt to say is that Duran was past his peak, but the they go on to review Chavez's Leonard etc for fights they had at the same ages....Chavez had 100 fights too, Leonard had 150 amateur fights....Duran is not some god he simply is a great fighter and a top pound per pounder but is not what you all make him up to be.

When have i ever said Mayweather is as good as Duran, even though I think that his style would cause Duran all sorts of fits at any weight. Mayweather is better defensivly than Leonard ever was, and would not go toe to toe with Duran. I do think Duran would be more dominant than mayweather would be. You say I am a statitician..Does that poition pay good money...LOL

I think you have to look at the facts when objectively discussing these fighters, then add in subjective reasoning. Also your right that 70-1 is all time great...That is not my point, my point again is look at the quality of fights Duran had...lets say this from the time Duran beat Ken Buchanon..and yes I watched duran during this time.... he was fabulous, dominat, very quick and had great defense..The total package..but he was not invincible....he could be beaten by a boxer. From the time duran became a champion he faced 22 fighter who had records that ranged form 0-3 to 18-6-2.... This was during his peak years, at his peak weight, not tune ups..Simple fighters that Duran had no business scheduling a boxing match with, and these fights have to be factored in when people are hyping up all this praise on durans lighteight record...... You do not see these type of fights on most other modern fightrs. If they did, you would have a new website blasting leonard or Maywether for scheduling a fight with a figher with a record of 1-4.

I never hear anyone discussing that,or how Duran got beaten repeatedly when he moved north. Duran fans cant and wont discuss it becasue it is factual, the only thing they attempt to say is that Duran was past his peak, but the they go on to review Chavez's Leonard etc for fights they had at the same ages....Chavez had 100 fights too, Leonard had 150 amateur fights....Duran is not some god he simply is a great fighter and a top pound per pounder but is not what you all make him up to be.
I'm not making him out to be a "god." No fighter in history is a "god." I haven't checked the stats in a while, but unless I'm mistaken, Duran fought 4 or 5 fights a year at lightweight. Don't undervalue the fact that he was busy. I don't think Leonard was that busy. Mayweather is two fights a year at most.

But, in the end we have facts. IN Duran we're talking about a guy who started around 120 lbs and after his prime beat Iran Barkley at middlewieght. (the same Barkley that destroyed Hearns twice). That's astounding. You want to talk about Duran's losses after his prime. OK, fine. But, do you think I could degrade Duran for getting KOd by Hearns or quitting against Leonard. I cannot. This is like Mannie Paquiou going thru the ranks to eventually become middleweight champion of the world. Unheard of!

Roberto Duran is p4p the greatest fighter of all time.

His weight range and ability to fight in these ranges make him one one of the all time greats !

simple answer is yes he was.

Duran was so good he quit, got knocked out, beaten,,,smacked around by fighters all before he was 33..I think not...he was simply a great fighter no where near a Ali, or a Robinson. You all talk about he was able to go up in weight and win...hmmm but you leave out the repeated ass kickings he got...

Duran was so good he quit, got knocked out, beaten,,,smacked around by fighters all before he was 33..I think not...he was simply a great fighter no where near a Ali, or a Robinson. You all talk about he was able to go up in weight and win...hmmm but you leave out the repeated ass kickings he got...
Your biased has been revealed. Nothing more to be said to you now.

Only one last thought: Mannie Pacquaio ...the middleweight champion of the world! That's essentially what Duran did. None of your heros can even come close to making a claim like that. Case closed.

Only one last thought: Mannie Pacquaio ...the middleweight champion of the world! That's essentially what Duran did. None of your heros can even come close to making a claim like that. Case closed.

Here here !

Your biased has been revealed. Nothing more to be said to you now.

Only one last thought: Mannie Pacquaio ...the middleweight champion of the world! That's essentially what Duran did. None of your heros can even come close to making a claim like that. Case closed.

Manny fought at 106, NOT a credible comparison.

Anybody who doesn't think Duran is an ATG, knows absolutely zero about boxing. Zero.

Anybody who doesn't think Duran is an ATG, knows absolutely zero about boxing. Zero.

Once again that wasn't his argument.

skils:
Wiley is smacking this guy around...

Mayweather fights in MEGA fights. These fights take 4-6 months to promote AT THE LEAST. That means you can only see him fight twice a year even though he wants to fight much more it just isn't possible.

And Duran didnt ? ..........

Sugar Ray Leonard x3
Iran Barkley
Thomas Hearns
Marvin Hagler

All the above are undoubtedly all time greats, time will tell if any of Mayweathers opponents were MEGA ! Duran's certainly was !

first off...Azteca...you sound like a nerd. 2ndly I never ever ever said Duran was not a all time great. Read..or can you read...my post. In fact I have duran in my all time top ten. As far as smacking around if you think so..That is for you decide which logic you accept. I have to hear anyone justify why a Duran can fight fighter with 1-4 records when he is a champion, and fighters like Mayweather get riducled for fighting Baldimirs...

Azteca instead of getting on here and soundly like a nerd, why dont you offer something to the debate. the others are posing good issue and respected views,you simply can seem to be a nuthiugger with out even knowing what nuts your hugging on... Get your facts str8 Son.........

the fact Sugar Ray in the rematch got the biggest ring in the world to fight in, 1 square mile, because he new he was going to get his arse kicked again, Duran took the second fight lightly he was eating a steak the size of a house before the fight and got stomach cramps through the fight, Great yes, intelligent no.

And Duran didnt ? ..........

Sugar Ray Leonard x3
Iran Barkley
Thomas Hearns
Marvin Hagler

All the above are undoubtedly all time greats, time will tell if any of Mayweathers opponents were MEGA ! Duran's certainly was !

Barkley? undoubtedly an ATG?

Not disagreeing in any way on the general idea of Duran being a top 5-10 p4p alltime, but Iran Barkley is undoubtedly NOT an all time great

Barkley? undoubtedly an ATG?

Not disagreeing in any way on the general idea of Duran being a top 5-10 p4p alltime, but Iran Barkley is undoubtedly NOT an all time great

Ok maybe not, but he did fight a lot of ATG'S !

Col Blake once again another person in a chat room that jumps on popular myth, and doesnt know the facts. I suggest you either buy the hands of stone autobiagraphy and read page 204. There was never any cramps. NEVER...this from Durans own mouth. It was made up by some one in Durans camp. to cover up for the fact that he quit.

The ring was rather big, but so what, it was the same size for both of them, and kick his ass again...I guess winning by 4 points between 3 scorecards justified that..We all say Cotto Mosley was close...it was much closer than that fight.

Funny to repeatedly hear duran nut hugger hug durans nuts even when Duran has said there was never any cramps, never any no mas...He simply said I am not fighting this clown anymore, because he was frusterated...In other words duran was not man enough to take his whippping he was getting that night and quit.

Page 204.....Read it!!

Manny fought at 106, NOT a credible comparison.
The **** it's not. Duran started at 118...dildo!

The **** it's not. Duran started at 118...dildo!

That's 12 ****ing pounds higher than 106 and MANNY ISN'T EVEN A LIGHTWEIGHT, asswit.

first off...Azteca...you sound like a nerd. 2ndly I never ever ever said Duran was not a all time great. Read..or can you read...my post. In fact I have duran in my all time top ten. As far as smacking around if you think so..That is for you decide which logic you accept. I have to hear anyone justify why a Duran can fight fighter with 1-4 records when he is a champion, and fighters like Mayweather get riducled for fighting Baldimirs...

Azteca instead of getting on here and soundly like a nerd, why dont you offer something to the debate. the others are posing good issue and respected views,you simply can seem to be a nuthiugger with out even knowing what nuts your hugging on... Get your facts str8 Son.........
Son, I have offered justification, but you just want to look right through it. How many times do I have to say this. Duran fought 4-5 times a year. Read it again.

Son, I have offered justification, but you just want to look right through it. How many times do I have to say this. Duran fought 4-5 times a year. Read it again.

You ignored my post pertaining to that subject earlier.

That's 12 ****ing pounds higher than 106 and MANNY ISN'T EVEN A LIGHTWEIGHT, asswit.
Dip****....Is 118 even lightweight?? NO. So what comparison would you like? Ok...here's one for you: Floyd Mayweather winning the middleweight championship of the world! He started heavier than Duran. Now consider that smart guy...now that you're going after Duran! lol I thought you knew something about boxing...apparently not!

The day that Mayweather wins the middleweight championship of the world is that day that I will compare him to Duran. But, until then......

PEOPLE, can you all take a step back and admit that Pacman winning the WBC 147 belt at age 37 would be

1) the correct comparison to be made

2) amazing anyways

i would put duran over ray leonard anyday! he is top 10 p4p and best lightweight of all time.

Duran fought 4-5 bums a year...Justification for fighting a figher excuse me 23 fighters with similar records...ONCE HE WAS A CHAMPION....i dont think so. If you think in your wildest imagination hmmmmm lets see ray had years when he fought 5- fights..and none of them were that quality and he was not even a champion yet....1979.

Wiley I dont want to disrepect your opinion that Duran is a all time great, and will give you much more credibilty than than some on here who offer nothing in return. Yes Duran foutht a lot, but there is not justification for fighting the a fighter hmmmm 23 fighters with records like 0-3 or 1-4. If you think simply because your fighting 4-5 times a year that that is ok...then I see exactly where any sensible discussion is headed.

Dip****....Is 118 even lightweight?? NO. So what comparison would you like? Ok...here's one for you: Floyd Mayweather winning the middleweight championship of the world! He started heavier than Duran. Now consider that smart guy...now that you're going after Duran! lol I thought you knew something about boxing...apparently not!

The day that Mayweather wins the middleweight championship of the world is that day that I will compare him to Duran. But, until then......

Bull

Duran119 at age 16-17.
16--->119
17---->119-122
18---->already above 126.

Mayweather was in the ams at that age:

16 ---> 106
17 ---> 112
19 ---> 125
and until age 25---> 130

Maywaether IS smaller than Duran was, and he already won a 154 belt.

By your logic the comparison is very possible.

NOTE: I rank Duran above Mayweather, and so far I have NO DOUBTS about it. But I accept that it is based on my (hopefully educated) opinion, not on "facts" which, as you can see, are quite not "facts".

Duran fought 4-5 bums a year...Justification for fighting a figher excuse me 23 fighters with similar records...ONCE HE WAS A CHAMPION....i dont think so. If you think in your wildest imagination hmmmmm lets see ray had years when he fought 5- fights..and none of them were that quality and he was not even a champion yet....1979.

Wiley I dont want to disrepect your opinion that Duran is a all time great, and will give you much more credibilty than than some on here who offer nothing in return. Yes Duran foutht a lot, but there is not justification for fighting the a fighter hmmmm 23 fighters with records like 0-3 or 1-4. If you think simply because your fighting 4-5 times a year that that is ok...then I see exactly where any sensible discussion is headed.
23 out of 118 fighters?? Is that what you're saying? Or are there more now in your opinion?

LOL.....When Pacquiou wins the middleweight championship of the world, then we'll see another Duran in action....but until then, I guess we'll have to wait.

You're too much statitician, and haven't seen enough Duran to know what you're talking about. If you didn't see it, you missed it. Know go on and review and sift through all your records.

You think YOU are the word here, when the great majority of the boxing world and almost all boxing historians blatantly disagree with what you're saying? Right.

Yes I would put duran over ray too based on this..

duran fought bum after bum at light weight.

He is 1-2 vs Ray..and barely won the 1st fight by 4 poits total...no matter how you want to twist it the fact is Duran won by 4 points between 3 cards..

Duran got beat by Hearns Benetiz, and Hagler all by the age of 33...Leonard beat them all.

Duran best victories at lightweight are not on par with Leonard best at welterweight or above..

Barkly and moore while being good fighters are not great fighters,,it was a hell of a accomplishment however.

Duran moved up and got beat repeatedly by age 33...Before you duran nut huggers say he was not at his peak weight...Neither were Mosly, dlh, Leonard, mayweather..etc...they all moved up...

And finally for those who know nothing about boxing...Duran started at 118 because he had no amateur career....This is Like Ray starting at 135...as an amateur. Factor that in...Durans 1st 20 or so fights he didnt even have a official trainer and his oppoisiton was roughly in the same situation.

There is a lot that you durans fans leave out when swinging on his nuts...Duran in today era...would get his ass handed to him repeatedly...as he did once he started fighting great fighters..These are not the ernesto marcils........

Bull

Duran119 at age 16-17.
16--->119
17---->119-122
18---->already above 126.

Mayweather was in the ams at that age:

16 ---> 106
17 ---> 112
19 ---> 125
and until age 25---> 130

Maywaether IS smaller than Duran was, and he already won a 154 belt.

By your logic the comparison is very possible.

NOTE: I rank Duran above Mayweather, and so far I have NO DOUBTS about it. But I accept that it is based on my (hopefully educated) opinion, not on "facts" which, as you can see, are quite not "facts".
Yeah well..what are we talking about: Pacquiao, Mayweather, Duran; all starting their careers below 120 lbs. OK....when Mayweather was 8 years old he was 55 lbs. lol

Duran started at 118 and eventually won the middleweight championship of the world. Hey smart guy....find me another one that has done that. Started his professional career below 120 and became middleweight champ. Find the others. I'm not saying they don't exist, but if they do...then show them to me. AND don't say it was Leonard without producing the records to prove it.

wmute...thanks for posting this...Duran fans do not list facts........ Mayweather and Duran are comparable in efforts at moving up the ladder only, Mayweather has done so much more successfully. NO loses...no ko..no quits....

And Ihate Mayweather, and regard duran as better (for now) pound per pound than mayweather, but not Leonard....Duran exploits at lightweight are vastly overrated..If duran is the best because of that..Then so is Hopkins, he dominated the middleweights with no good names during his reign. rockky Marciano retired undefeated, but didnt beat anyone great..

Durans best thing is that Leonard chose to go toe to toe..Had leonard boxed him in montreal...we are not even having this debate......

wmute...thanks for posting this...Duran fans do not list facts........ Mayweather and Duran are comparable in efforts at moving up the ladder only, Mayweather has done so much more successfully. NO loses...no ko..no quits....

And Ihate Mayweather, and regard duran as better (for now) pound per pound than mayweather, but not Leonard....Duran exploits at lightweight are vastly overrated..If duran is the best because of that..Then so is Hopkins, he dominated the middleweights with no good names during his reign. rockky Marciano retired undefeated, but didnt beat anyone great..

Durans best thing is that Leonard chose to go toe to toe..Had leonard boxed him in montreal...we are not even having this debate......
Show me one guy that started his professional career below 120 and eventually won the middleweight championship. Show me....show me Leonard...if you can.

Duran started at 118 Wiley when most are amateurs....Dlh, Mayweahte Leonard etc.... I factor that in..especially when you see the quality of those fights that duran faced....let me give you the facts.... Wow you all simply do not know anythign about boxing..

Duran first fight mendoza 0-0
3rd fight jimenez 0-0

I can go on and on and on....showing that duran quality of fights were not comparible night in night out..to what a leonard faced....These were simply amateur fights that duran got paid for.


Hers is Ray's first professional fight.....
8-11-2 (his opponent had 21 professional fights vs durans...0 fights)
10-1 2nd fight..In fact when you go up and down leonards resume you dont see any fighters with records like duran routinely faced...Even after he became a champion

THOSE ARE THE FACTS.......So yes it is compariable to Say Leonard stared his amateur career at 132...and ended up winning the 175 pound belt.....43 pounds different. Duran started at 118 won at 160....

Dip****....Is 118 even lightweight?? NO. So what comparison would you like? Ok...here's one for you: Floyd Mayweather winning the middleweight championship of the world! He started heavier than Duran. Now consider that smart guy...now that you're going after Duran! lol I thought you knew something about boxing...apparently not!

The day that Mayweather wins the middleweight championship of the world is that day that I will compare him to Duran. But, until then......

Did Duran not make the chunk of his all time great career at LIGHTWEIGHT correct.. Floyd is smaller than Duran is FACT.

Roy jones started at 160 ended up winning the heavyweight title...henry armstrong....Either you dont get it,,or simply refuse to accept FACTS. Duran is over rated, and got his ass handed to him nightly when he started facing better fighters.....all in his prime years,

Duran started at 118 Wiley when most are amateurs....Dlh, Mayweahte Leonard etc.... I factor that in..especially when you see the quality of those fights that duran faced....let me give you the facts.... Wow you all simply do not know anythign about boxing..

Duran first fight mendoza 0-0
3rd fight jimenez 0-0

I can go on and on and on....showing that duran quality of fights were not comparible night in night out..to what a leonard faced....These were simply amateur fights that duran got paid for.


Hers is Ray's first professional fight.....
8-11-2 (his opponent had 21 professional fights vs durans...0 fights)
10-1 2nd fight..In fact when you go up and down leonards resume you dont see any fighters with records like duran routinely faced...Even after he became a champion

THOSE ARE THE FACTS.......So yes it is compariable to Say Leonard stared his amateur career at 132...and ended up winning the 175 pound belt.....43 pounds different. Duran started at 118 won at 160....
In other words...you cannot find anybody that started their professional career under 120 and eventually won the middleweight crown....nobody but DURAN!!

All time great. You guys are pissing against the wind on this one. lol

wmute...thanks for posting this...Duran fans do not list facts........ Mayweather and Duran are comparable in efforts at moving up the ladder only, Mayweather has done so much more successfully. NO loses...no ko..no quits....

And Ihate Mayweather, and regard duran as better (for now) pound per pound than mayweather, but not Leonard....Duran exploits at lightweight are vastly overrated..If duran is the best because of that..Then so is Hopkins, he dominated the middleweights with no good names during his reign. rockky Marciano retired undefeated, but didnt beat anyone great..

Durans best thing is that Leonard chose to go toe to toe..Had leonard boxed him in montreal...we are not even having this debate......

hey man, that's opinion again!

I personally rank Duran above Mayweather and Leonard. I really have something against Leonard negotiations and rematches. Meaning:
I would behave exactly like Leonard I were in his shoes, but it still detracts from his legacy IMO.

In fact if Mayweather beats Hatton and Cotto, I am ready to rank him above Leonard.

In other words...you cannot find anybody that started their professional career under 120 and eventually won the middleweight crown....nobody but DURAN!!

All time great. You guys are pissing against the wind on this one. lol


your mistake was comparing him to a fraud wiley. to say mayewather name in the same sentace as Durans is blaspomy.

the sad thing is Mayweather fans will try to argue his greatness against any fighter past or present and claim he has accomplished more.

My answer to this is, name just ONE aknowledged great mayweather ever beat?


end of discussion for those dilussional zealots.

Mayweather has beat ****! Past it ****, never was ****, one hit wonder ****, and even never coulda been ****, but what he has and never will beat is great ****!

end of the line for these monkeys!

your mistake was comparing him to a fraud wiley. to say mayewather name in the same sentace as Durans is blaspomy.

the sad thing is Mayweather fans will try to argue his greatness against any fighter past or present and claim he has accomplished more.

My answer to this is, name just ONE aknowledged great mayweather ever beat?


end of discussion for those dilussional zealots.

Mayweather has beat ****! Past it ****, never was ****, one hit wonder ****, and even never coulda been ****, but what he has and never will beat is great ****!

end of the line for these monkeys!

From that statement on I knew the rest would be uneducated banter. Keep posting though I want those points.

your mistake was comparing him to a fraud wiley. to say mayewather name in the same sentace as Durans is blaspomy.

the sad thing is Mayweather fans will try to argue his greatness against any fighter past or present and claim he has accomplished more.

My answer to this is, name just ONE aknowledged great mayweather ever beat?


end of discussion for those dilussional zealots.

Mayweather has beat ****! Past it ****, never was ****, one hit wonder ****, and even never coulda been ****, but what he has and never will beat is great ****!

end of the line for these monkeys!
I didn't start this argument. My first post said that putting Mayweather in the same breath with Duran was idiocy.

From that statement on I knew the rest would be uneducated banter. Keep posting though I want those points.

lol, its a tired old trick to point out typos to get away from the point of the post skills, don't be another Isis that only points out spelling as a mark of his superiority. I have spellcheck, but you know what?

If your that fukin anal that spelling gets to you like that- then don't waste time pointing out your inability to address the arguement.


If there are any errors in spelling in there i don't give a rats ass!

lol, its a tired old trick to point out typos to get away from the point of the post skills, don't be another Isis that only points out spelling as a mark of his superiority. I have spellcheck, but you know what?

If your that fukin anal that spelling gets to you like that- then don't waste time pointing out your inability to address the arguement.


If there are any errors in spelling in there i don't give a rats ass!
He might have spelled it right, but he also implied that Duran was an inferior fighter, and he chided me for a "lack of boxing knowledge" for picking Pavlik to KO Taylor. So even though he can spell, his arguments regarding the sport of boxing reveal an immature mind. (He's a college kid, Easton).

He might have spelled it right, but he also implied that Duran was an inferior fighter, and he chided me for a "lack of boxing knowledge" for picking Pavlik to KO Taylor. So even though he can spell, his arguments regarding the sport of boxing reveal an immature mind. (He's a college kid, Easton).

Please quote the post where I said you lack boxing knowledge for picking Pavlik to beat Taylor. YOU DO lack boxing knowledge for saying Kosta would KO Mosley because he beat Forrest in the amateurs. My arguments regarding the sport at least are backed by FACTS yours.................well we know about yours Coyote.

He might have spelled it right, but he also implied that Duran was an inferior fighter, and he chided me for a "lack of boxing knowledge" for picking Pavlik to KO Taylor. So even though he can spell, his arguments regarding the sport of boxing reveal an immature mind. (He's a college kid, Easton).

that explains it. when i was a college kid, i knew everything aswell. problem is as i got older i learned that all that **** i knew was wrong lol.

It's easy to figure out the world when the parents are supplying the funds to do so.
give him a few years paying his own bills and we will see how smart he really is.

You are right Wiley. Duran is the ONLY guy to do what he did in winning the middleweight title, and he did it in an era where even journeymen could have been champions today!

Comparing Mayweather & Duran will seem silly on Dec 8th.....

....when the Hitman (Who's ring idol was Duran) leaves Vegas with PBF's belts !

It beats me how do you put Mayweather in the same bracket as Duran anyway.

Durans retired, he fought in the golden era of middleweight boxing (even though he was initially L/W), Mayweather's just a pretty boy in a very ungolden era !

lol, its a tired old trick to point out typos to get away from the point of the post skills, don't be another Isis that only points out spelling as a mark of his superiority. I have spellcheck, but you know what?

If your that fukin anal that spelling gets to you like that- then don't waste time pointing out your inability to address the arguement.


If there are any errors in spelling in there i don't give a rats ass!


Actually I just made the statment to bust your chops budd it is good to see you back on the boards no matter how crazy you get.:beerchug: Nonetheless I will address what you have said. I for one believe Duran is an All time great and has accomplished much more than Floyd at this point in his career. However I believe Floyd has all time great skill but needs the other half..............accomplishments. To say Floyd couldn't carry Duran's jockstrap is saying a bit much because Floyd would give Duran a very good fight and would hold his own, more than likely in a losing effort though.

Please quote the post where I said you lack boxing knowledge for picking Pavlik to beat Taylor. YOU DO lack boxing knowledge for saying Kosta would KO Mosley because he beat Forrest in the amateurs. My arguments regarding the sport at least are backed by FACTS yours.................well we know about yours Coyote.

I would pick kostya over Mosley aswell. Kostya has proven that slick boxers are not a problem for him, infact his legacy is built off that one fact if nothing else!

I say Tzsyu catches mosley with that right hand by the 5th! funny, isn't shane considered weak against the right which just happens to be Tzsyu's biggest weapon?

Please quote the post where I said you lack boxing knowledge for picking Pavlik to beat Taylor. YOU DO lack boxing knowledge for saying Kosta would KO Mosley because he beat Forrest in the amateurs. My arguments regarding the sport at least are backed by FACTS yours.................well we know about yours Coyote.
You know exactly what I said....and it's a valid observation....I did not say Kostya would KO Mosely. I said Kostya beat Forrest in the amatuers and that is just another indicator that he could have beaten Mosely. That's what I said...and you know it. But, hey...go ahead and hang on to it. If that's all you can come up with, then I'm laughing.

At least I'm knowledgable enough to know that Duran was a great fighter. Then again, it doesn't take a genius to know that.

Actually I just made the statment to bust your chops budd it is good to see you back on the boards no matter how crazy you get.:beerchug: Nonetheless I will address what you have said. I for one believe Duran is an All time great and has accomplished much more than Floyd at this point in his career. However I believe Floyd has all time great skill but needs the other half..............accomplishments. To say Floyd couldn't carry Duran's jockstrap is saying a bit much because Floyd would give Duran a very good fight and would hold his own, more than likely in a losing effort though.

Fair enough! Good to see your point acumulating lol! you make good point skills, but damn i get riled with all the damn nuthuggery with mayweather-it's like a bad rash!

I dont remember any one saying Duran was not an all time great, or that Mayweather right now deserves to be ranked with Duran. However, we give you facts, and you can not return the favor.

One thing that you and other do is leave out the facts that are not favorable about duran. Duran first 20 or so fights were against fighters with something like 0-0 records Fact! This was his equavalence to an amateur career as these fighters were not experience professionals. Fact! Did Duran win a belt at 118? Now he was young and still growing, fighting fights learning his trade making money...while others wher doing the same thing, fighting fights under the umbrella of Amateur...So to say Professional career, I will concur that Duran professional career started at 118, however the reality if Mayweather's Dlh all did what Duran did only their early years were for free......

I gave you a person who as a professional accomplished the same feat, Roy Jones Jr...He started at 160...then fought to the heavyweight title vs a fighter who weight well over 200? In fact he weight 226 for the fight.

Fair enough! Good to see your point acumulating lol! you make good point skills, but damn i get riled with all the damn nuthuggery with mayweather-it's like a bad rash!

I try to analyze these things logically, key word is TRY. Yeah I am young but is that really a plausible argument to think I lack knowledge. I will be the first to admit I have a lifetime worth of learning about EVERYTHING but I do know a "lil sum sum" so to speak.

I dont remember any one saying Duran was not an all time great, or that Mayweather right now deserves to be ranked with Duran. However, we give you facts, and you can not return the favor.

One thing that you and other do is leave out the facts that are not favorable about duran. Duran first 20 or so fights were against fighters with something like 0-0 records Fact! This was his equavalence to an amateur career as these fighters were not experience professionals. Fact! Did Duran win a belt at 118? Now he was young and still growing, fighting fights learning his trade making money...while others wher doing the same thing, fighting fights under the umbrella of Amateur...So to say Professional career, I will concur that Duran professional career started at 118, however the reality if Mayweather's Dlh all did what Duran did only their early years were for free......

I gave you a person who as a professional accomplished the same feat, Roy Jones Jr...He started at 160...then fought to the heavyweight title vs a fighter who weight well over 200? In fact he weight 226 for the fight.
Excuses. In other words, you can find no other figher but Duran to start his professional career below 120 and win the middleweight championship of the world.

If you cannot recognize this feat of athletism, then you are beyond reason. Your bias has crippled your mental faculties in this regard. Don't fret, it's a common condition around here.

As for Mayweather being ranked over leoanrd that is your opinion, and if he beats Hatton, Cotto, I will easily have him well over Duran and most likely over leonard too.

Helll beating very good and great fighters at 154 and 147 consistently when you started at 130 IMO does quality for high pound per pound ranking, and no Leonard nor Duran has done that. They may have won some fights up North, but night in night out going against the best at the much heavier weight class and still unbeaten..You can hate him, and not like his style but the facts are he a great great fighter.

You know exactly what I said....and it's a valid observation....I did not say Kostya would KO Mosely. I said Kostya beat Forrest in the amatuers and that is just another indicator that he could have beaten Mosely. That's what I said...and you know it. But, hey...go ahead and hang on to it. If that's all you can come up with, then I'm laughing.

At least I'm knowledgable enough to know that Duran was a great fighter. Then again, it doesn't take a genius to know that.


LIAR. You said Kos would KO Mosley because he beat Forrest decisively in the amateurs. After the comment more than one poster berated you for the statement because you, oh old and wise one, didn't realize the concept of "styles making fights". You know you are actually knowledgable I remember you posting some facts about Ali that owned the hell out of another user. Your only fault is when it comes to Konstantine, Floyd, and Richard. I never said you lacked knowledge for Pavlik-Taylor and you know it. I disagreed with that assesment but I didn't criticize you for it, hey if that is what floats your boat more power to you, we all know the truth.

for one post quit hugging on Durna nuts..and be consistent, honest and objective as I will be.

Did Duran's 70 fights at amateurs contaain at least 40 fights vs opponents that had records that leoanrd never even bothered to think about fighting against? Simple yes or no question.

2nd did duran move up and face leonard in both fights at age 29...and ultimately Hagler and hearns and benitez all before the age of 34? Simple yes or no questions.

Did Duran quit because from his own words..not myth...he was frustereated?

Finally has Mayweaher moved up to win titles in the 135-140-147 and 154 divisions with out a loss while Duran has many losses..all around the same age 29-33? Simple yes or no question.

I will be happ to answer any questios for you if you can suck it up and answer those questions.

Excuses. In other words, you can find no other figher but Duran to start his professional career below 120 and win the middleweight championship of the world.

If you cannot recognize this feat of athletism, then you are beyond reason. Your bias has crippled your mental faculties in this regard. Don't fret, it's a common condition around here.

He just gave you Roy Jones. Wouldn't even you call that a good comparison.

LIAR. You said Kos would KO Mosley because he beat Forrest decisively in the amateurs. After the comment more than one poster berated you for the statement because you, oh old and wise one, didn't realize the concept of "styles making fights". You know you are actually knowledgable I remember you posting some facts about Ali that owned the hell out of another user. Your only fault is when it comes to Konstantine, Floyd, and Richard. I never said you lacked knowledge for Pavlik-Taylor and you know it. I disagreed with that assesment but I didn't criticize you for it, hey if that is what floats your boat more power to you, we all know the truth.
You're full of ****....I explained exactly what I meant when you started attacking the statement. To tell you the truth, I don't care what you think about what I post. Got it? Now run along and play.

He just gave you Roy Jones. Wouldn't even you call that a good comparison.
NO. I wouldn't.

NO. I wouldn't.

That's because your bias clouds your judgement. Now go take your medication, gramps.

My father always told me who is the bigger dummy the dummy or he who argues with a dummy. You last answer just about sums up the quality of this debate.

My father always told me who is the bigger dummy the dummy or he who argues with a dummy. You last answer just about sums up the quality of this debate.
There are other examples of middleweights moving to heavyweight. Not even the same as a friggin 118 pounder taking the middleweight championship.

Sorry.

first off...Azteca...you sound like a nerd. 2ndly I never ever ever said Duran was not a all time great. Read..or can you read...my post. In fact I have duran in my all time top ten. As far as smacking around if you think so..That is for you decide which logic you accept. I have to hear anyone justify why a Duran can fight fighter with 1-4 records when he is a champion, and fighters like Mayweather get riducled for fighting Baldimirs...

Azteca instead of getting on here and soundly like a nerd, why dont you offer something to the debate. the others are posing good issue and respected views,you simply can seem to be a nuthiugger with out even knowing what nuts your hugging on... Get your facts str8 Son.........

I'm sorry if i dont give you respect.

i'm use to gordoom and co. slapping you around on a daily basis.

you're always on Leonard's/Floyd's/Roy's nuts, and this has been proven in the past. so shut it.

Nerd.

160 - 118 42 pounds difference.......as a professional Hmm with a weight limit that the opponent can not exced at weigh in.

200-160 40 pounds difference....... as a professional hmm with no weight limit. and the opponent actually weighed in at 226.

Wow....not the same accomplishement.......Hmmmmmmm I think i agree it is even a greater accomplishment.

160 - 118 42 pounds difference.......as a professional Hmm with a weight limit that the opponent can not exced at weigh in.

200-160 40 pounds difference....... as a professional hmm with no weight limit. and the opponent actually weighed in at 226.

Wow....not the same accomplishement.......Hmmmmmmm I think i agree it is even a greater accomplishment.
HMMM, it's not. And your ignorance is showing. Leonard has been dismissed and now you are comparing Roy to Duran? There is no evidence, none at all..... that Duran ever used steroids. Don't you even dare compare Roy to a real fighter of historical proportions.

first off....Azetec...another post that you have no insights on. Gordoom has asked me to write for Cyberbocxing and I have been asked to write for East side boxing, which I have.

Gordoom and I have never debated before. We have had threads where we posted thoughts, but never ever have we wnt back and forth on anything. So once again your proving your a joke.

If you have read my threads..Yes I like Leonard, but hate Mayweather, and am neutral on Jones. I have always said Durna is a top 10, but I debate Duran when fans such as yourself get on threads and say false things, bandwagon myths, or can not objectivley back anything tht they are saying other than saying gibberish, and unsurrported factless statments...Such as when i was asked to produce a fighter that has accomplished a feat like or greater than Durna winning a middlweight title when he started at 118. If anyone thinks that Roy jones winning the Heavyweight title when he started at 160 is not equal when his oppenent he faced was 226..then they are seriously a short yellow buss candidate.

"I'm sorry but Leonard won the first fight".

That pretty much sums up what you know about boxing.

First off Leonard has not been dismissed only to you and azteca.... Leonard made your hero quit, then your hero got the **** kknocked out him by heanrs ..hmmm who ray stopped..then your hero got beat by Beneitez..hmmm who ray stopped, and then your hero got beat by hagler ..who ray came out of retirement after 5 years with only one fight and beat. Hmmmmm Facts..my friend..Duran no matter how you twist got L's when he left the ring....

As for Roy jones. I am in no way saying Roy jones is a Duran, but he did accomplish that very feat...And Roy unlike duran did get ass whippings during his preak years..he started losing at age 35 and 36.... Your boy got his ass handed to him during his peak years..

first off....Azetec...another post that you have no insights on. Gordoom has asked me to write for Cyberbocxing and I have been asked to write for East side boxing, which I have.

Gordoom and I have never debated before. We have had threads where we posted thoughts, but never ever have we wnt back and forth on anything. So once again your proving your a joke.

If you have read my threads..Yes I like Leonard, but hate Mayweather, and am neutral on Jones. I have always said Durna is a top 10, but I debate Duran when fans such as yourself get on threads and say false things, bandwagon myths, or can not objectivley back anything tht they are saying other than saying gibberish, and unsurrported factless statments...Such as when i was asked to produce a fighter that has accomplished a feat like or greater than Durna winning a middlweight title when he started at 118. If anyone thinks that Roy jones winning the Heavyweight title when he started at 160 is not equal when his oppenent he faced was 226..then they are seriously a short yellow buss candidate.
That is a LIE and a cop out.

What I asked you to do was show me another fighter that professionally started below 120 and then won the middleweight title. That was what I asked you to do. You haven't been able to produce anybody......only DURAN.

First off Leonard has not been dismissed only to you and azteca.... Leonard made your hero quit, then your hero got the **** kknocked out him by heanrs ..hmmm who ray stopped..then your hero got beat by Beneitez..hmmm who ray stopped, and then your hero got beat by hagler ..who ray came out of retirement after 5 years with only one fight and beat. Hmmmmm Facts..my friend..Duran no matter how you twist got L's when he left the ring....

As for Roy jones. I am in no way saying Roy jones is a Duran, but he did accomplish that very feat...And Roy unlike duran did get ass whippings during his preak years..he started losing at age 35 and 36.... Your boy got his ass handed to him during his peak years..

Twist it any way you want.

Duran is a top 5 fighter all time by any reputable boxing mind. Sugar, Cox, I can go on and on. I have never seen a list that never featured Duran not in the top 10.

he was great.

his reign at lightweight was legendary.
his jump from 135 to 147 without a tuneup and taking on one of the best fighters of all time is legendary.
his bashing of barkley was legendary.
his domination of dave moore was legendary.


...notice the keyword (legend)????

you cannot say the same thing about roy. ever.

Well according the to publishers of Cyberboxing Zone and East side boxing I know boxing.

I will give you this. Duran clearly won the event of the fight...and it was his fight, and Live I would have to go with Duran. Leonard had his backs to the ropes the entire ngiht....Effedtive aggression is a important factor in judging who wins fights... However, it was close as a decison could be..if Round 1 was given to ray..Duran loses...I ask you look at you tube get out your timex, and tell me with a round about time frame when Duran ever landed a punch on Ray's head in round one?

I know boxing son. As for you...give us some facts, instead of hugging on Wileys dick..he is doing a good enough job debating for himself. Why dont you come up with somehthing worhwhile.

List Bert Sugars List where duran is a top five.. List it I have it. He is not in Bert Sugar Top five. He is in his top 10...as he is in mine as well. Another false post.

Well according the to publishers of Cyberboxing Zone and East side boxing I know boxing.

I will give you this. Duran clearly won the event of the fight...and it was his fight, and Live I would have to go with Duran. Leonard had his backs to the ropes the entire ngiht....Effedtive aggression is a important factor in judging who wins fights... However, it was close as a decison could be..if Round 1 was given to ray..Duran loses...I ask you look at you tube get out your timex, and tell me with a round about time frame when Duran ever landed a punch on Ray's head in round one?

I know boxing son. As for you...give us some facts, instead of hugging on Wileys dick..he is doing a good enough job debating for himself. Why dont you come up with somehthing worhwhile.

i would verbally *****slap you around but i have already seen guys do it to you plenty of times.

Don't act like it has never happened, pinky.

Sugar ray robinson, Henry armstrong, Harry Greb, Jack dempsy, Benny Leonard

Bert Sugar... http://www.salon.com/news/sports/col/barra/2001/05/09/boxing/print.html

Read what I said dimwit.

"I have never seen a list that never featured Duran not in the top 10."

Azteca...you must have been beaten up on your way to school a lot, and got a new computer for christmas so your typeing tough in chatrooms..save the weak stuff for face to facre confrontaations...Anyone can type tough in a chat room. What we are on here doing is debating issues...what your on here doing is sounding like a *****...lets get back to the issues..OK..I will respect you..you respect me..and debate the issues...

such as your false claim that Duran is in Bert Sugars top five...

"Duran is a top 5 fighter all time by any reputable boxing mind. Sugar, Cox, I can go on and on. I have never seen a list that never featured Duran not in the top 10"

Is exactly what you said.... Just like a duran fan...paraphrase only the parts that they want you to remember etc....You said by any reputable boxing mind....and listed Bert Sugar....That means he is in yoiur eyes a reputable boxign mind...and he does not have Duran in his top five..Wiley..you need to help this young man.

Azteca...you must have been beaten up on your way to school a lot, and got a new computer for christmas so your typeing tough in chatrooms..save the weak stuff for face to facre confrontaations...Anyone can type tough in a chat room. What we are on here doing is debating issues...what your on here doing is sounding like a *****...lets get back to the issues..OK..I will respect you..you respect me..and debate the issues...

such as your false claim that Duran is in Bert Sugars top five...

Consider the following:
1. Duran was the greatest lightweight champion of all time. Period.
2. A lightweight champion dethroning a welterweight champion was unprecedented for 50 years. Leonard was near his prime as well when Duran defeated him and don't be fooled --the first fight mattered most.
3. A lightweight champion has never, ever dethroned a MIDDLEWEIGHT champion and Duran did just that --10 years after his prime and against a man (Iran Barkley) who was much larger and in his prime.

Good Post Azteca.. I am proud of you some facts..and your right abouth them too. I dont know about the 50 years..I need to check but your right.

Now post something that has not been said and agreed upon by every one on here. Your trying to steal Wiley's thunder. NO one disagrees with Duran's greatness Azteca..Just I am a few others on here are not buying that Duran is as great as you and others try to paint him to be.

I dont remember any one saying Duran was not an all time great, or that Mayweather right now deserves to be ranked with Duran. However, we give you facts, and you can not return the favor.

One thing that you and other do is leave out the facts that are not favorable about duran. Duran first 20 or so fights were against fighters with something like 0-0 records Fact! This was his equavalence to an amateur career as these fighters were not experience professionals. Fact! Did Duran win a belt at 118? Now he was young and still growing, fighting fights learning his trade making money...while others wher doing the same thing, fighting fights under the umbrella of Amateur...So to say Professional career, I will concur that Duran professional career started at 118, however the reality if Mayweather's Dlh all did what Duran did only their early years were for free......

I gave you a person who as a professional accomplished the same feat, Roy Jones Jr...He started at 160...then fought to the heavyweight title vs a fighter who weight well over 200? In fact he weight 226 for the fight.

look at what you are saying here, pinky. Why the heck would that even matter?

Do you realize he fought legends like hearns, Benitez, Hagler, Leonard. Quite high of company...

Good Post Azteca.. I am proud of you some facts..and your right abouth them too. I dont know about the 50 years..I need to check but your right.

Now post something that has not been said and agreed upon by every one on here. Your trying to steal Wiley's thunder. NO one disagrees with Duran's greatness Azteca..Just I am a few others on here are not buying that Duran is as great as you and others try to paint him to be.

Pinky.

You are claiming two things:
1) he fought alot of chumps during his career
2) and his losses

......last time I checked every single fighter not named marciano has lost. And when you consider who duran beat, how he beat them, and the weight he beat them at...well that is stuff only a legend could accomplish.

and as for #1 - who the hell cares... chavez fought cab drivers for 75 fights...but he proved he had the right stuff. he has an incredible list of b level fighters on his resume.

Ohh the first fight did not matter the most, it matter the same, as both were still in their primes...5-6 months apart...For the same title. Just like Ali frazier 3rd fight historically measuring up to the 1st fight.

What about the first fight was more significant.....Maybe to you and Duran fans it is the fight you want to matter the most since Duran won., and it is no surprise that a duran fan would utter something like that.

Ohh the first fight did not matter the most, it matter the same, as both were still in their primes...5-6 months apart...For the same title. Just like Ali frazier 3rd fight historically measuring up to the 1st fight.

What about the first fight was more significant.....Maybe to you and Duran fans it is the fight you want to matter the most since Duran won., and it is no surprise that a duran fan would utter something like that.

look pink....i can point to his resume at lightweight and he will still be mentioned as an atg. throw out his losses at every other weight and he would still be the top lightweight of all time.

buchanan
lampkin
viruet
suzuki
dejesus

who's ****in' with that, pinky?? who??

and dont give me any of that b leonard/gans nonsense. near impossible to break down those fighter's records. top lightweight of all time..in a divison that possibly has teh greatest depth of all time.

Good Post Azteca.. I am proud of you some facts..and your right abouth them too. I dont know about the 50 years..I need to check but your right.

Now post something that has not been said and agreed upon by every one on here. Your trying to steal Wiley's thunder. NO one disagrees with Duran's greatness Azteca..Just I am a few others on here are not buying that Duran is as great as you and others try to paint him to be.

People treat Duran's greatness as unattainable, when that isn't the case. They tend to do this to all the fighters of yesteryear.

People treat Duran's greatness as unattainable, when that isn't the case. They tend to do this to all the fighters of yesteryear.

it pretty much is, man. pinky is going to verify my stat about it being unprecedented for a lightweight to dethrone a welter for 50 years.

he is legendary, wether you guys like it or not.

Azteca....What is your point..In fact you jumped in a debate and you not even debating the issue.


I will repeat it so clear and simple this time so that you can completley undertand what the issue is.

Duran had a 70-1 record at lightweight very very very great record. He moved up and is the only man to beat a prime Sugar Ray leonard. He also moved up and beat Moore, and Barkely for addditonal titles. This is an amazing and not often repeated feat. One that has Duran ranked in my top 10 all time. However reasons why Duran is not ranked above Ali, Armstrong, Grebb, and ranked very close to Leonard is the fact that those 70 victories 23+ are vs fighters who had records similar to 10-11, 1-4 , 0-3...etc... 23 of them AFTER he becam champion.

That coupled with the other 2 facts that his best victories during his reign of torture at lightwieight were buchanon, marcil, Dejesuse who he was 2-1 against, and Kyboashi. This list is not exactly Hall of fame material when compared to Leonard beating Duran, Hearns, Benetix, Hagler. Finall point is yes Duran was at his most effectiv weight at 135, but since we all judge Maywether, Mosley's Dlh Leonard's based on how they fare north of their original weight class,,and we judge them all inclusive meaning wins and losses, up to around the age of about 34-35 generally. When you look at the entiretly Duran move north was not as successful as others.

That is my point. I still rank Duran high, but I bring in all the facts....

Azteca....DURAN IS LEGENDARY... ok... What is is that your not getting. Mybe my previous post will clarify my position to you. I think top 10 ever it pretty amazying..Dont you.

I guess you want me to rank him top 3...Sorry but because of what I have listed in the previous post he doesnt.

Just like Ray leonard based on quality of oppositon he is top 5..but because of longitivit he drops down some notches. Longivitity for Duran is a plus., but those losses and the fact he had a lot of padding with 1-4 fighters after he was a champion drops him to....IMO.

What if Mayweather fought a fighter after the Hatton fight who had a recordof 2-5, what would you say. And he would be fighing this fighter at welter wieght...where duran fought them at his most effective weight.

Bolded are my answers.
Azteca....What is your point..In fact you jumped in a debate and you not even debating the issue.


I will repeat it so clear and simple this time so that you can completley undertand what the issue is.

However reasons why Duran is not ranked above Ali, Armstrong, Grebb, and ranked very close to Leonard is the fact that those 70 victories 23+ are vs fighters who had records similar to 10-11, 1-4 , 0-3...etc... 23 of them AFTER he becam champion.

Again, why does it matter? He held the title for 6 years & made 12 defenses.....almost all by KO. What else could he have done? And more importantly, who could he of fought????

That coupled with the other 2 facts that his best victories during his reign of torture at lightwieight were buchanon, marcil, Dejesuse who he was 2-1 against, and Kyboashi.

Tell me a lightweight that was more challenged, pinky. I named his good opponents in my post above.

This list is not exactly Hall of fame material when compared to Leonard beating Duran, Hearns, Benetix, Hagler. Finall point is yes Duran was at his most effectiv weight at 135, but since we all judge Maywether, Mosley's Dlh Leonard's based on how they fare north of their original weight class,,and we judge them all inclusive meaning wins and losses, up to around the age of about 34-35 generally. When you look at the entiretly Duran move north was not as successful as others.

No it is not hall of fame material because of his losses. But him absorbing shots at 38 from a prime Iran Barkley....that was special.

It's tough to even see Chavez doing a number on this guy. Or any lightweight for that matter.

Surely he gives any fighter from 135-160 a run for there money???? On an all-time basis, best vs. best...I really dont see him losing many fights.


Oh and no we dont judge a fighter on how high they jumped. Maybe in the modern era.

ALltime=
who did you beat?
did you face alot of prospects, and beat up those prospects or did you feast on over the hill guys??
did you fight in a guys hometown, and win?
how did you beat your opponents?
....

Azteca....DURAN IS LEGENDARY... ok... What is is that your not getting. Mybe my previous post will clarify my position to you. I think top 10 ever it pretty amazying..Dont you.

I guess you want me to rank him top 3...Sorry but because of what I have listed in the previous post he doesnt.

Just like Ray leonard based on quality of oppositon he is top 5..but because of longitivit he drops down some notches. Longivitity for Duran is a plus., but those losses and the fact he had a lot of padding with 1-4 fighters after he was a champion drops him to....IMO.

What if Mayweather fought a fighter after the Hatton fight who had a recordof 2-5, what would you say. And he would be fighing this fighter at welter wieght...where duran fought them at his most effective weight.

For the 20th time, it's a different era. Why in the hell would I bother comparing Mayweather/Duran when Mayweather's career isn't even over.

And he is in the era of popcorn and PPV.

Duran wasn't this flash, hype bull****.

He was a fighter of substance.

Azteca.. My name is Wpink. I call you by the your name you want, do the same...as for your post.... I am digesting it now. I will respond to it. then I have to hit the gym...Pretty hyped up....My college team I played football for is now #2 in the country....Kansas Jayhawks..so this going to be a great week. Let me digest your previeous email respond then we can call it a day....Or I will wait for your final response too, how does that sound to you?

Sure wpink.

Another good damm post..I am very impressed....However I think we are saying the same thing. Which leaves to wonder why are we even debating.

Duran was substance. Agreed
Duran was great all time...agreed
Duran would give most fighters not all ...He simply is not made to fight Tommy Hearns...Just a bad match up for him. Hearns at 154 beats all of them, IMO..as he would be able to handle rays punches better at that weight.

You keep bringing up Chavez..I am no chavez fan.. I think he had a lot of padding too. Did you think he was given a gift to get a draw with Whitacker

It was special him beting Barkley, and Moor...Always said that.

I think we agree more than you thing. It may have appeared when you first got on that I am againt duran because quit possibley you may have entered in the middle of a debate.but Duran is a one my favorites, and clealry one of if not the best lightweight of all time. Styles beat Duran, not fighters..STyles...Ray had the style when he employd it to beat Duran, when he elected to go toee to toe...it was close, only becaue duran moved up toe fight him, had that fight been at lightweith...Ray may not have survived the first 4 rounds... That being said..Ray boxing at welteweight beats duran 9 times out of 10 IMO. Styles!!

My final point azteca is and has always been in this debate that I want everyone to judge duran by the same set of criteria that they judge everyone else by, and stop giving him excuses for every ass kicking he got.


I am sure we will meet up again.

i apologize, i did enter part way through. i saw you giving duran ****, and had to call you out for it.

i'm sorry man...It's just the way I think. When I watch Duran fight...I am amazed.

When I watch Floyd fight...i am neither entertained or amazed.

it pretty much is, man. pinky is going to verify my stat about it being unprecedented for a lightweight to dethrone a welter for 50 years.

he is legendary, wether you guys like it or not.

This is what I mean OVERRATING the older fighters. Duran legendary? HELL YES. Duran an all time great? HELL YES. Can someone be as good as him and accomplish great things like he has? HELL YES!!! Didn't shane Go from lightweight to Welter to beat Oscar, I know he had a tune up first but still.

verify that mosley stat for me skils.

No problem,,,I am like that with Leonard, as anyone can tell on any board. I am a realist though. I think Duran can move up more successfully and have great sustained success than Ray could, simply because Durans style, defense etc...Ray at Welterweight is about perfect of a match as you can have. Duran has the ability to overwhelm lightweigghts, outbrawl most welterweights...and out thnk and out box most middleweights. He simply is that good. However there are those great 4 fighters that simply were too big naturally for Duran to impose his will on unless the fought stupidly like Leonard did.

My all time rankings are this.

Robinson
Ali
armostrong
Grebb -- based off of what i have read.
Pepp
Louis
Duran
Leonard


My all tiem off of talent alone

Robinson
Ali,
Roy Jones,
Leonard,
Duran
Mayweather
Pepp
Armstrong..

This is just my opinion. I have not seen enough footage of zale, graziano, etc..

i'm sorry but how can you say leonard fought duran stupidly?? duran was a master technician pink. he forced leonard to fight the way he did.

verify that mosley stat for me skils.

He defended his title for the 8th time in the lightweight division. Moved straight to Welter beat Rivera and Wise than took the WBC title from Oscar DLH. It's on boxrec if you need to see proof budd. I am pretty sure that is exactly how it went.

i thought he had a single bout at 140. Maybe I am mistaken?

but point with duran still stands...mosley came AFTER roberto last time i checked.

it was unprecedented for 50 years, lassie.

"Duran is a top 5 fighter all time by any reputable boxing mind. Sugar, Cox, I can go on and on. I have never seen a list that never featured Duran not in the top 10"

Is exactly what you said.... Just like a duran fan...paraphrase only the parts that they want you to remember etc....You said by any reputable boxing mind....and listed Bert Sugar....That means he is in yoiur eyes a reputable boxign mind...and he does not have Duran in his top five..Wiley..you need to help this young man.
Azteca doesn't need my help....

This is what I mean OVERRATING the older fighters. Duran legendary? HELL YES. Duran an all time great? HELL YES. Can someone be as good as him and accomplish great things like he has? HELL YES!!! Didn't shane Go from lightweight to Welter to beat Oscar, I know he had a tune up first but still.
It's very hard to overrate Duran. Very easy to overrate Floyd. Sorry but it's the truth. Different breeds of men completely (and I'm not talking racially...I'm talking about fiber).

i apologize, i did enter part way through. i saw you giving duran ****, and had to call you out for it.

i'm sorry man...It's just the way I think. When I watch Duran fight...I am amazed.

When I watch Floyd fight...i am neither entertained or amazed.

You aren't amazed by the skill he shows? Did you see the gif of him blocking one of Blado's punches, countering him with an uppercut and then ducking another punch BEFORE it was even thrown? If you say Baldo was slow and predictable he did the SAME thing to Oscar man. I can understand you saying you aren't entertained fine you don't find his cautious nature entertaining. However, to not be in awe of how that man performs in the ring baffles me, it's once in a generation type skill. Like I said he has the all time great skill............all he needs is the accomplishments and the rest is history.

It's very hard to overrate Duran. Very easy to overrate Floyd. Sorry but it's the truth. Different breeds of men completely.

Actually you and Az have easily Overrated Duran. People tend to forget what overrated means though. SRR is consensus p4p greatest ever. Is he overrated? Hell yeah to an extent he is. Duran is one of the best ever, but there are fighters who have came up or will come up that would give him a hell of a fight and Floyd is one of them.

You aren't amazed by the skill he shows? Did you see the gif of him blocking one of Blado's punches, countering him with an uppercut and then ducking another punch BEFORE it was even thrown? If you say Baldo was slow and predictable he did the SAME thing to Oscar man. I can understand you saying you aren't entertained fine you don't find his cautious nature entertaining. However, to not be in awe of how that man performs in the ring baffles me, it's once in a generation type skill. Like I said he has the all time great skill............all he needs is the accomplishments and the rest is history.

I am not amazed because he is always in cruise control.

I am amazed watching a ferrari zoom by.
I am not amazed watching a jetta zoom by.

Get my drift, man?

One more thing to throw in the couldron...............

Duran fought toe-toe for 14 rounds in world title fights back in his day, not a poxy 12 round slap and ***** fest !

Actually you and Az have easily Overrated Duran. People tend to forget what overrated means though. SRR is consensus p4p greatest ever. Is he overrated? Hell yeah to an extent he is. Duran is one of the best ever, but there are fighters who have came up or will come up that would give him a hell of a fight and Floyd is one of them.
Actually we haven't "overrated" Duran at all. It's our opinion, college boy.

I am not amazed because he is always in cruise control.

I am amazed watching a ferrari zoom by.
I am not amazed watching a jetta zoom by.

Get my drift, man?

I understand it is the breed of animal though. I guess he thinks more of in the long run than the "right now". As he famously said once "I aint ****ing with my money". Still though when he is on it I can't see how you can't be amazed.

Actually we haven't "overrated" Duran at all. It's our opinion, college boy.

Thinking his status as unattainable is overrating in any book. He is HUMAN after all, gramps.

I understand it is the breed of animal though. I guess he thinks more of in the long run than the "right now". As he famously said once "I aint ****ing with my money". Still though when he is on it I can't see how you can't be amazed.

skils, i have long been an advocate of floyd on the boards. i used to think he was an animal.

But the guy fights in cruise control. Nothing pretty about it anymore. Like hatton says, all style, no substance.

i'll tell you what skils.

if mayweather fights and beats cotto, williams, cintron, mosley, taylor, winky, and teh #1 ranked 154 lber in the world...whoever it is.

Then he is on duran's level.

I understand it is the breed of animal though. I guess he thinks more of in the long run than the "right now". As he famously said once "I aint ****ing with my money". Still though when he is on it I can't see how you can't be amazed.
Long run?? How many fights did Duran have at Floyd's current age? It's not about "the long run" with Floyd. It's about not getting his ass knocked out and losing his superstar businessman status. "If it makes money, it makes sense." That's a Floyd quote and you can take him quite literally. He's no different from Roy Jones, Jr. Both businessmen first. Boxing is a distinct second.

Thinking his status as unattainable is overrating in any book. He is HUMAN after all, gramps.
Of course he's human. That's what makes him so damn special. He's not an "alien" on steroids and he never ran from anybody in the ring.

Long run?? How many fights did Duran have at Floyd's current age? It's not about "the long run" with Floyd. It's about now getting his ass knocked out and losing his superstar businessman status. "If it makes money, it makes sense." That's a Floyd quote and you can take him quite literally. He's no different from Roy Jones, Jr. Both businessmen first. Boxing is a distinct second.

Money and legacy go hand in hand in most cases. His legacy will be solidified no need to worry about that.

i'll tell you what skils.

if mayweather fights and beats cotto, williams, cintron, mosley, taylor, winky, and teh #1 ranked 154 lber in the world...whoever it is.

Then he is on duran's level.

I won't comment, we would just be going in circles.

Money and legacy go hand in hand in most cases. His legacy will be solidified no need to worry about that.

No way Jose. Not particularly true in this case.

No way Jose. Not particularly true in this case.
Agreed....Floyd will not recover from his first loss...when it comes. When it comes, IF it comes, all the bigmouthing and cherry picking will come home to roost in the minds of boxing watchers. Mark my words, once the bubble is burst, there will be no more serious talk of "greatest of all time" deserved or not. He's done this to himself.

No Azteca...Ray willingly chose to go toe to toe. Duran never cut off the ring, etc. From round 2 on on til round 5 then starting back with round 8 there was no movment from Ray. None. That fact is known and accepted as the reason Duran won, generally not debated from anybody including Durans camp.

leoanrd Fought a stupid fight, but in the long run it help him out soo much better, as he developed a toughness, or located a toughness that he did not know he had inside of him. This toughness carried him through the Hearns and Hagler fights. With out Duran he would never have beaten Hearns.

Go back and look at the fight, you will see even when leonard spent duran along the ropes, he first step was back in, in stead of away to get some boxing distance.

You never saw any jabs, any movement nothing. Not to take anything away form Duran as duran did what he was supposed to do. If leonard is a fool enought to chose not to box then so be it.