Sure Lennox is a very good heavyweight champion but look at his body of work...what good or great fighter has he beaten that was in their respected primes?

Holyfiled was no where near his prime and LL in a lot of peoples minds lost the second fight. Tyson was so far gone it is not even worth mentioning.

Maybe Ray Mercer was in his prime but he was probably at the very end of it and I for one think Lennox lost that fight.

Did he beat Rock in his prime...yeah I guess he did but the best Rahman I saw was the younger Rock the one that fought Tua the first time in the 220's.

One victory that was huge for Lewis was his win over Razor Ruddock but was Ruddock first off any good? And secondly was he in his prime?
Ruddock at the time was in the middle of changing styles and trainers and looked very ackward in the ring, the Ruddock that Lewis fought was different then the one Tyson fought.

Golota? This was a big victory for Lewis as well, I personally thought that Lewis was in real trouble but he easily beat the polish retard...does this count...I don't think so but maybe you do?

Lewis has been around a long time and he was fighting as a serious contender when Holyfiled was in his prime, Tyson was still a very formidable foe when Lewis was whacking guys out of there and of course the mythical matchup that never came to fruition being the fight with Bowe...

So I ask all of the members of boxincscene to come up with an argument that puts Lewis in a better light than the one that I portray...too me VK is in his prime and if he were to come back and ko VK that woould be the only guy woth mentioning on LL's resume that he beat in his prime.

Lennox Lewis, certainly a good heavyweight Champ, but in Holyfield's class...no ****ing way!

Sure Lennox is a very good heavyweight champion but look at his body of work...what good or great fighter has he beaten that was in their respected primes?

Holyfiled was no where near his prime and LL in a lot of peoples minds lost the second fight. Tyson was so far gone it is not even worth mentioning.

Maybe Ray Mercer was in his prime but he was probably at the very end of it and I for one think Lennox lost that fight.

Did he beat Rock in his prime...yeah I guess he did but the best Rahman I saw was the younger Rock the one that fought Tua the first time in the 220's.

One victory that was huge for Lewis was his win over Razor Ruddock but was Ruddock first off any good? And secondly was he in his prime?
Ruddock at the time was in the middle of changing styles and trainers and looked very ackward in the ring, the Ruddock that Lewis fought was different then the one Tyson fought.

Golota? This was a big victory for Lewis as well, I personally thought that Lewis was in real trouble but he easily beat the polish retard...does this count...I don't think so but maybe you do?

Lewis has been around a long time and he was fighting as a serious contender when Holyfiled was in his prime, Tyson was still a very formidable foe when Lewis was whacking guys out of there and of course the mythical matchup that never came to fruition being the fight with Bowe...

So I ask all of the members of boxincscene to come up with an argument that puts Lewis in a better light than the one that I portray...too me VK is in his prime and if he were to come back and ko VK that woould be the only guy woth mentioning on LL's resume that he beat in his prime.

Lennox Lewis, certainly a good heavyweight Champ, but in Holyfield's class...no ****ing way!



Prime vs. Prime, Holyfield beats the dog**** out of lewis, but you cant deny lewis' dominance.

I am a Lewis hater, but I can appriciate what he accomplished as a boxer.

A good case could be made that he is the best heavyweight all time in terms of winning rounds and doing what it takes to win.

He is defiantely not as exciting as Holyfeild, and didn't show as much heart, But at a prime of 6'5 240-245 he has the size and strengh to win a 12 round decision agaist every other all time great.

Lewis is an all time great!! He beat every man he ever fought and retired as champion.

I think Lewis deserves top 10-12 all time. His skills are unquestioned. Maybe his lazy attitude costs him a little. I think Lewis should be given credit for the Holyfield victory. Holyfield prime had trouble with 42 yr old Foreman and Holmes. Almost ko'd by Cooper. He was beaten by Moorer and Bowe before his carrer defining fight vs Tyson. He might not have been prime against Lewis, but he wasn't far from it. It think it's a good debate, but Holyfield will get the nod most of the time becuase he is beloved by most and Lewis is a love him or hate guy. If both in "prime" The question is whether Holy's determination and heart would be enough to overtake Lewis' obvious physical advantages. Against Bowe in their first fight, his heart wasn't enough. I'll take Lewis

lewis is top 10 in the 7-10 spot. he defeated everyone he has ever fought and dominated the heavyweight division for a great part of the 90's and early 00's.

lewis in the top 10 wtf? no way

Sure Lennox is a very good heavyweight champion but look at his body of work...what good or great fighter has he beaten that was in their respected primes?

Holyfiled was no where near his prime and LL in a lot of peoples minds lost the second fight. Tyson was so far gone it is not even worth mentioning.

Maybe Ray Mercer was in his prime but he was probably at the very end of it and I for one think Lennox lost that fight.

Did he beat Rock in his prime...yeah I guess he did but the best Rahman I saw was the younger Rock the one that fought Tua the first time in the 220's.

One victory that was huge for Lewis was his win over Razor Ruddock but was Ruddock first off any good? And secondly was he in his prime?
Ruddock at the time was in the middle of changing styles and trainers and looked very ackward in the ring, the Ruddock that Lewis fought was different then the one Tyson fought.

Golota? This was a big victory for Lewis as well, I personally thought that Lewis was in real trouble but he easily beat the polish retard...does this count...I don't think so but maybe you do?

Lewis has been around a long time and he was fighting as a serious contender when Holyfiled was in his prime, Tyson was still a very formidable foe when Lewis was whacking guys out of there and of course the mythical matchup that never came to fruition being the fight with Bowe...

So I ask all of the members of boxincscene to come up with an argument that puts Lewis in a better light than the one that I portray...too me VK is in his prime and if he were to come back and ko VK that woould be the only guy woth mentioning on LL's resume that he beat in his prime.

Lennox Lewis, certainly a good heavyweight Champ, but in Holyfield's class...no ****ing way!

*rolleyes*

Yup no agenda here.

When you think of a great champion, the first thing that normally pops into mind is an image of them beating the crap out of someone. With Ali I see him standing over Liston, With holyfield I see him going to war with Bowe, with Lewis I know he put the beating on some people but I just see him flat on his back, twice.

Sure Lennox is a very good heavyweight champion but look at his body of work...what good or great fighter has he beaten that was in their respected primes?

Holyfiled was no where near his prime and LL in a lot of peoples minds lost the second fight. Tyson was so far gone it is not even worth mentioning.

Maybe Ray Mercer was in his prime but he was probably at the very end of it and I for one think Lennox lost that fight.

Did he beat Rock in his prime...yeah I guess he did but the best Rahman I saw was the younger Rock the one that fought Tua the first time in the 220's.

One victory that was huge for Lewis was his win over Razor Ruddock but was Ruddock first off any good? And secondly was he in his prime?
Ruddock at the time was in the middle of changing styles and trainers and looked very ackward in the ring, the Ruddock that Lewis fought was different then the one Tyson fought.

Golota? This was a big victory for Lewis as well, I personally thought that Lewis was in real trouble but he easily beat the polish retard...does this count...I don't think so but maybe you do?

Lewis has been around a long time and he was fighting as a serious contender when Holyfiled was in his prime, Tyson was still a very formidable foe when Lewis was whacking guys out of there and of course the mythical matchup that never came to fruition being the fight with Bowe...

So I ask all of the members of boxincscene to come up with an argument that puts Lewis in a better light than the one that I portray...too me VK is in his prime and if he were to come back and ko VK that woould be the only guy woth mentioning on LL's resume that he beat in his prime.

Lennox Lewis, certainly a good heavyweight Champ, but in Holyfield's class...no ****ing way!

There is no way that Lewis lost the rematch to Holyfield.

Lewis is an all time great, and VK outboxed him. :D

When you think of a great champion, the first thing that normally pops into mind is an image of them beating the crap out of someone. With Ali I see him standing over Liston, With holyfield I see him going to war with Bowe, with Lewis I know he put the beating on some people but I just see him flat on his back, twice.


...Joe, you make some great points!!! Lewis was as scary as he was vulnerable. Guys feared him, but he was not unbeatable at all and if you got to that glass chin it was over with one big shot. If he didn't act like such an ******* his he American fan base would have been better and he would have gotten more respect. I do have to give him credit for fighting alot of big knockout punchers with that suspect chin. He fought Ruddock, Tyson, Morrison, Holy(not a big puncher but dangerous as hell and Lewis fought him like he feared a one punch knockout), Vitali, Rahman a second time after getting his brain scrambled, and Tua. He stepped up with that fragile chin and took chances against guys who could take him out with one or two shots. He was a pompous British idiot who I couldn't stand but I would put him in the 7-10 range. He had some serious skills and IMO would have knocked out Bowe if they ever did meet. Bowe was scared of Lewis and it was not the other way around.

...Joe, you make some great points!!! Lewis was as scary as he was vulnerable. Guys feared him, but he was not unbeatable at all and if you got to that glass chin it was over with one big shot. If he didn't act like such an ******* his he American fan base would have been better and he would have gotten more respect. I do have to give him credit for fighting alot of big knockout punchers with that suspect chin. He fought Ruddock, Tyson, Morrison, Holy(not a big puncher but dangerous as hell and Lewis fought him like he feared a one punch knockout), Vitali, Rahman a second time after getting his brain scrambled, and Tua. He stepped up with that fragile chin and took chances against guys who could take him out with one or two shots. He was a pompous British idiot who I couldn't stand but I would put him in the 7-10 range. He had some serious skills and IMO would have knocked out Bowe if they ever did meet. Bowe was scared of Lewis and it was not the other way around.
i'd say he's still one of the greats because he did what he did and retired as a champion... prime or no prime, he beat those guys...

Lewis destroyed what was left of Holyfield..

*rolleyes*

Yup no agenda here.

What big fight was Lewis in where his opponent was in his prime?

There is no secret I am not a big Lewis fan, however I think he is the greatest heavyweight champ past the age of 35...this appeared to be his prime...

The Lewis that fought Frank Bruno, Toney Tucker would have been beaten by a ton of guys but he had smart management and they brought him along very slowly staying away from a prime Holy, a dangerous Tyson and I don't care whose fault it was Bowe's or Lewis's the point is they never fought.

the post McCall Lewis would have killed Bowe in my mind but the skinny scared Lewis pre McCall would have been in big trouble.

My point...Lewis never fought a top guy in there prime...maybe it was not his fault, maybe it was...this is the agenda nothing more nothing less.

As for ranking Lewis he is between 11-15/16 range...he is a really good champ, but for me I reserve the word great for the top tier and Lennox is not there agenda or not-great heavyweight champions don't get one punched twice in their career by mediocre fighters!

Lewis is one of the alltime greats for sure. And by the way prime for prime he beats Holyfield.

would u all rank vitali higher then lewis is he doesnt lose has the belts and never gets knocked out? or he is always under lewis cause he hasnt and wont fight a holyfield and tyson because he was to long?

Lewis is an all time great, and VK outboxed him. :D

So thats why he lost.

Lewis is one of the alltime greats for sure. And by the way prime for prime he beats Holyfield.

How do you figure he beats Holyfield in his prime? Holyfield hurt Lewis bad a couple of times in their rematch and that Holyfield was way past his prime.

Holyfield ****ing murders Lewis prime for prime!

What big fight was Lewis in where his opponent was in his prime?

There is no secret I am not a big Lewis fan, however I think he is the greatest heavyweight champ past the age of 35...this appeared to be his prime...

The Lewis that fought Frank Bruno, Toney Tucker would have been beaten by a ton of guys but he had smart management and they brought him along very slowly staying away from a prime Holy, a dangerous Tyson and I don't care whose fault it was Bowe's or Lewis's the point is they never fought.

the post McCall Lewis would have killed Bowe in my mind but the skinny scared Lewis pre McCall would have been in big trouble.

My point...Lewis never fought a top guy in there prime...maybe it was not his fault, maybe it was...this is the agenda nothing more nothing less.

As for ranking Lewis he is between 11-15/16 range...he is a really good champ, but for me I reserve the word great for the top tier and Lennox is not there agenda or not-great heavyweight champions don't get one punched twice in their career by mediocre fighters!

Please name me the last time two legit all time great heavyweight fighters were in there primes at the same time?

He fought a ton of guys who were thought to be "prime" you just flat out refuse to reconize them. Mercer, Rudock, Golota, Briggs, Tua and Grant were all thought to be at there peak.

You try and knock Holyfield, but what you fail to realize is that at the time of that fight Holyfield was the WBA and IBF Heavyweight Champion of the World and was fighting aswell as had ever fought. Was there a bigger fight in boxing at that time than Holyfield vs Lewis? the answer would be no.


You also say he was brought along slowly, but again what you dont know is that by 20 pro fights he was already fighting for World Titles, hell Miguel Cotto and Jermain Taylor haven't even fought top ten guys yet.

Also you try and say he never fought Tyson in the 90's, but AGAIN what you fail to realize is that in 1996 Lennox Lewis was the #1 contender for Tyson and Mike Tyson chose to give up his belt and pay Lennox Lewis 5 Million dollars.

What do you mean it doesn't matter who didn't want the fight with Bowe? Of course it matters. You cant knock Lewis for never fighting Bowe whwen Bowe clearly didn't want any part of Lewis.

How do you figure he beats Holyfield in his prime? Holyfield hurt Lewis bad a couple of times in their rematch and that Holyfield was way past his prime.

Holyfield ****ing murders Lewis prime for prime!

He never had Lewis hurt at any point in either fight.

If Micheal Moorer could outbox a "prime" Holyfield what makes you think Lewis couln't do it?

If Bowe could take 2/3 and KO a "Prime" Holyfield what makes you think Lewis couldn't?

Evander Holyfield was a tough guy, but he lost more big fights than he won and was far from unbeatable.

How do you figure he beats Holyfield in his prime? Holyfield hurt Lewis bad a couple of times in their rematch and that Holyfield was way past his prime.

Holyfield ****ing murders Lewis prime for prime!


ex ****ing actly

for those of you who put lewis in the top 10

ali
foreman
holems
dempsley
louis
rocky M
tyson
fraizer
liston
johnson
pattersib
john l sullivan
walcott
charles
holyfield

( this r not in order just put them down as i remembered them

Please name me the last time two legit all time great heavyweight fighters were in there primes at the same time?

He fought a ton of guys who were thought to be "prime" you just flat out refuse to reconize them. Mercer, Rudock, Golota, Briggs, Tua and Grant were all thought to be at there peak.

You try and knock Holyfield, but what you fail to realize is that at the time of that fight Holyfield was the WBA and IBF Heavyweight Champion of the World and was fighting aswell as had ever fought. Was there a bigger fight in boxing at that time than Holyfield vs Lewis? the answer would be no.


You also say he was brought along slowly, but again what you dont know is that by 20 pro fights he was already fighting for World Titles, hell Miguel Cotto and Jermain Taylor haven't even fought top ten guys yet.

Also you try and say he never fought Tyson in the 90's, but AGAIN what you fail to realize is that in 1996 Lennox Lewis was the #1 contender for Tyson and Mike Tyson chose to give up his belt and pay Lennox Lewis 5 Million dollars.

What do you mean it doesn't matter who didn't want the fight with Bowe? Of course it matters. You cant knock Lewis for never fighting Bowe whwen Bowe clearly didn't want any part of Lewis.


You make excellent points as you always do. "IF" doesnt count, but i still think "IF" they both fought in their primes, Holyfield would take out Lewis, and Holyfield was in his prime before the first Tyson fight, not at that time.

man alot of u guys get really defensive when lewis gets talked about i mean more then any other boxer once somehting is said about lewis its arrrrrrrrr ooo blah eck pff plip and **** liek that

lol tru say sturm
i really started hating lewis after the tyson fight bcuz he gave up his IBF and WBA instead of fighting for it, and also i look at his career n to me its not all that impressive. he beats a past prime tyson and holyfield and thts bout it... andrew golata is not amazing hes just there. michael grant... that explains itself
rahman was not the best, but he kocked out lewis like that, obviously he loses in the rematch, but hes not great or anything

i hate lewis to be honest
but as a regualr boxing fan hes not near the top 10 of all time
ali
frazier
foreman
holyfield
bowe (holyfield fights made him)
marciano
louis
schmeling (RIP)
jersey joe walcott
mike tyson
ezzard charles

just random order

lol tru say sturm
i really started hating lewis after the tyson fight bcuz he gave up his IBF and WBA instead of fighting for it, and also i look at his career n to me its not all that impressive. he beats a past prime tyson and holyfield and thts bout it... andrew golata is not amazing hes just there. michael grant... that explains itself
rahman was not the best, but he kocked out lewis like that, obviously he loses in the rematch, but hes not great or anything

i hate lewis to be honest
but as a regualr boxing fan hes not near the top 10 of all time
ali
frazier
foreman
holyfield
bowe (holyfield fights made him)
marciano
louis
schmeling (RIP)
jersey joe walcott
mike tyson
ezzard charles

just random order


u missed a few just look at my list i thinmk i missed soem on there as well but u can put lewis int he top 25-30

I think Lewis is in the top 15 ................................ of champions that give up belts rather than defend their titles.

If he fought Tyson and Grant, and defended his titles against Byrd, and Ruiz then I would say top 20. He had plenty of time to fight all these guys, yet chose to fight only once a year and trash the IBF and WBA belts. He could have had his money, pleased the mob, and defended his titles.

Having said that, he doesn't belong in the same category as a champion that respects what the "championship title" represents.

Please name me the last time two legit all time great heavyweight fighters were in there primes at the same time?

He fought a ton of guys who were thought to be "prime" you just flat out refuse to reconize them. Mercer, Rudock, Golota, Briggs, Tua and Grant were all thought to be at there peak.

You try and knock Holyfield, but what you fail to realize is that at the time of that fight Holyfield was the WBA and IBF Heavyweight Champion of the World and was fighting aswell as had ever fought. Was there a bigger fight in boxing at that time than Holyfield vs Lewis? the answer would be no.


You also say he was brought along slowly, but again what you dont know is that by 20 pro fights he was already fighting for World Titles, hell Miguel Cotto and Jermain Taylor haven't even fought top ten guys yet.

Also you try and say he never fought Tyson in the 90's, but AGAIN what you fail to realize is that in 1996 Lennox Lewis was the #1 contender for Tyson and Mike Tyson chose to give up his belt and pay Lennox Lewis 5 Million dollars.

What do you mean it doesn't matter who didn't want the fight with Bowe? Of course it matters. You cant knock Lewis for never fighting Bowe whwen Bowe clearly didn't want any part of Lewis.


You want heavyweight champs prime for prime huh...

Bowe vs. Holyfield, Foreman vs. Ali, Ali vs. Frazier, Frazier vs. Foreman, Ali vs. Liston, Tyson vs. Tucker, Johnson vs. Burns, Marciano vs. Charles...

Your right it is very tough too match guys prime for prime maybe I was being a bit hard on the big brit, then again maybe your a bit too defensive of the big brit.

As for Mercer...I stated that I thought he lost that fight and that Ray was at the very end of his prime, but you made your case...mine would be that LL lost that fight and when Mercer made a man to man bet of 50K for the rematch LL did not take it...he was fortunate to get that decision and wanted no part of MErcer one more time.

Golota...Andrew showed up to the fight just about when it started...beating Golota at anytiome has proved to be no big deal...the guy is a loose cannon and worse yet he is a quitter.

Briggs...****...BRiggs had LL seriously hurt in that fight as did a lot of fighters...it is too bad that Shannon's chin was as bad as a chin gets.

Ruddock- I will argue that was certainly not in his prime...Ruddock was never the same guy that we saw fight Tyson, plus Floyd PAtterson his new trainer was trying to turn the slugger into a boxer.

Tua...I have stated before that Tua in his prime was when he fought Ike...watch that fight again Tua does things in that fight that he has never done since...he was amazing...he was never the same after that fight and his weight ballooned...an effective Tua when in his prime was in the 220's, not 240 or 250's.

Michael Grant...Why even bring his name up...again watch Grants previous fight with Golota...the bell saved him from a savage KO...basically Grant was fighting the undisputed champ of the world coming off a horrible ko defeat...I hope I never see such an amature performance in a big fight again...Grant wanted that fight over with before he even stepped into the ring, but who could blame him he was basically ko'd in his previous fight...great matchmaking on team LL's part.

I fail to realize that Holy held the wba and IBF titles...hmmm I thought he had the NABF are you sure...**** in a-yeah it was a big fight but that does not mean Holy was in his prime...Lewis won the first and I felt was given the decision the second time based upon the outcome of the first fight...some agree some disagree. You know Holy was not in his prime and for that matter was never a big puncher but Lewis treated him like he was scared of him in both fights and squeaked them out over an older out of his prime fighter.

20th fight vying for a world title...His 20th fight was against a dude that was 19-4 and it was for the Commonwealth title and British title or some **** like that...maybe that is a real title to you but to me that is a title for guys like Julias Francis and Danny Williams...it means **** too me and most boxing cult fans-if you would like to hype it up then be my guest...Cotto has fought twice the competition in comparison to Lewis at their respective stages...**** it isn't even close.

You may be right about Bowe not wanting to fight and you may be right that Tyson was scared and thats why LL was payed off but what I can tell you is that fighters pay other fighters off all of the time for various reasons and champions dump belts all of the time for various reasons...I think you are right about Bowe he was a little yellow but then again you can't say for sure and neither can I cuz neither of us no ****..there are always two sides to a story and if you want to hole heartedly take the team Lennox story then be my guest...point is we both no **** when it comes to why those fights never materalized!

As for your boy Lennox...let's see here he was brutally kayoed with one shot against mediocre heavyweights like Hasim Rahman and Oliver McCall....

Lennox was hurt so many ****ing times against average or past their prime fighters...the list includes

Frank Bruno (who was way past his prime and he had one just about every round in the fight, he had hurt Lewis in a few different rounds and had hurt him and was going in for the kill when Lewis caught him with of all punches the right hand)

Tommy Morrison certainly had Lewis doing the chicken dance early in that fight.

Shannon Briggs had Lewis in real trouble as well.

Ray Mercer broke LL's jaw and at the very least deserved a rematch...Jose all fighters can be *****'s at some point in their career...I agree Bowe was a ***** when he threw his belt in the garbage but LL was a ***** for not facing MErcer in a rematch of a fight that many thought he lost!

Henry Ackinwande-ya know for refusing to fight like big henry did if you watch that fight over ackinwande got screwed out of a kockdown in that fight...I dont think LL was seriously hurt but Henry knocked him down for sure!

Zeliko Mavrovic-watch this one in the seventh round old Zelko has Lewis hurt and is hammering away..it is too bad the guy really couldn't punch-it was funny watching this unknown who never deserved to be there play the role of the bully for at least one round.

Evander had Lewis stunned in both fights but I particularly remember the 1st fight-round number 3 which was the round that Holy predicted a knockout...he came out like a house of fire in that round and had Lewis in real trouble...it was the only excitement from Evander all night but again your hero was hurt!

David Tua-it was ewither the 3rd or 4th when Lewis was clipped by a wild left hook and went back to his stool on very unsteady legs...MAnny Steward is slapping LL in the face tryiung to revive him...Tua in his prime yeah right, watch Tua against Ike and tell me he was in his ****ing prime against LEwis.

Rahman-the second fight in the third round Rock hurt Lewis and never even knew it...he caught Lewis with a left hook and Lennox did a little chicken dance...Rock was in such awe of LL's jab that he did not throw a follow up punch for seven seconds..trust me I have watched this a 100x-so should you!

VK-hurt LL few times in this fight but most notably in the second...imagine that would have beeen Ike-it would have been over immediately.

My point here is this guy got hurt if you sneezed on him, granted when he lost he was hit with a couple devastating punches that not many if any could withstand but he got hit with them...all time greats did not.

I change my tune a bit thanks to you...after thinking about it a bit more LL bumps up a few spots and I could see him sitting at 10, but no higher.

You know your **** Jose-I don't question that, I just have never been a fan of a fighter who can't take a good shot and thats what Lewis can't do..take a good shot-all time greats should have a lot of things in their arsenals and one of those things should be a beard.

In my post in Opinion Central, I said why I think LL ranks over Holy. Here's the deal - when I look at all the heavies Holy beat and compare them to the ones LL beat, LL wins. The only guys I can really give Holy props for beating are Bowe (who in turn beat him twice), Tyson (who wasn't in his prime any more), and maybe Mercer. LL beat prime Golota, prime Morrison, prime Ruddock, prime Tua, prime Briggs, prime Klitschko and a past prime Holy, Mercer and Tyson. That's a veritable murderer's row he took out.

Yeah, you can say he was trouble in this fight or that fight (and btw, Holy was in big trouble in many of the fights he won), but the point is, he won. So head to head, based on record, I gotta give Lewis the nod over Holy. And frankly, I think he's a top 10 heavy based on that record too.

always talking about fighter primes, the bottomline is they fade out, plain and simple...

thanks for pointing out the obvious sherlock. maybe you can tell me if dog**** stinks.

thanks for pointing out the obvious sherlock. maybe you can tell me if dog**** stinks.
glad i could help, not to many dumbass around here... good to have you...

i thought you needed company. but changing my mind now that i see you have some homoerotic attraction to pac.

i thought you needed company. but changing my mind now that i see you have some homoerotic attraction to pac.
haha! good one... i'll tell you when im finished so you could go next, mwahahaha...

I think Lewis is in the top 15 ................................ of champions that give up belts rather than defend their titles.

If he fought Tyson and Grant, and defended his titles against Byrd, and Ruiz then I would say top 20. He had plenty of time to fight all these guys, yet chose to fight only once a year and trash the IBF and WBA belts. He could have had his money, pleased the mob, and defended his titles.

Having said that, he doesn't belong in the same category as a champion that respects what the "championship title" represents.

broken record

In my post in Opinion Central, I said why I think LL ranks over Holy. Here's the deal - when I look at all the heavies Holy beat and compare them to the ones LL beat, LL wins. The only guys I can really give Holy props for beating are Bowe (who in turn beat him twice), Tyson (who wasn't in his prime any more), and maybe Mercer. LL beat prime Golota, prime Morrison, prime Ruddock, prime Tua, prime Briggs, prime Klitschko and a past prime Holy, Mercer and Tyson. That's a veritable murderer's row he took out.

Yeah, you can say he was trouble in this fight or that fight (and btw, Holy was in big trouble in many of the fights he won), but the point is, he won. So head to head, based on record, I gotta give Lewis the nod over Holy. And frankly, I think he's a top 10 heavy based on that record too.

Again for the third ****ing time Tua was no where near his prime against Lennox...watch Tua fight Rock the first time and Ike...that was Tua at his best...Tua was a shell of himself when he finally got too fight LEwis which was years later...look at the weight differences and then watch the young tua and then come back here and tell me that LL fought Tua in his prime.

I don't think a lot of people have ever even seen Tua at his best 220's...so before telling me that LL fought a guy that was in his prime make sure you have seen the guy in his prime, thank you.

At the end of the day you can pick most people's records apart, even greats - whether it be Lewis, Holyfield, Tyson or Bowe. Listing a guys fights and criticising every one of them just stinks of hate if you ask me.

Again for the third ****ing time Tua was no where near his prime against Lennox...watch Tua fight Rock the first time and Ike...that was Tua at his best...Tua was a shell of himself when he finally got too fight LEwis which was years later...look at the weight differences and then watch the young tua and then come back here and tell me that LL fought Tua in his prime.

I don't think a lot of people have ever even seen Tua at his best 220's...so before telling me that LL fought a guy that was in his prime make sure you have seen the guy in his prime, thank you.

I've all of Tua's fights that were available on tv. It's funny how a loss drops someone from their prime. :cool:

I've all of Tua's fights that were available on tv. It's funny how a loss drops someone from their prime. :cool:

a loss certainly does not have to be the deciding factor...if you have his fights on tape then you tell me flat out that the DAvid Tua that fight Ike Ibeabuchi was the same DAvid Tua that fought LEnnox LEwis...

In my mind he was a shell of himself...he had a very short prime based upon his lack of training, he had no business being 245 against LL...oh and Tua lost against Ike and I said that was his prime...a loss (I scored the fight a draw and could have easily given the fight to Tuaman but I admit there was a bias on my part for the up and coming president.)

At the end of the day you can pick most people's records apart, even greats - whether it be Lewis, Holyfield, Tyson or Bowe. Listing a guys fights and criticising every one of them just stinks of hate if you ask me.

Your even more right than you know

a loss certainly does not have to be the deciding factor...if you have his fights on tape then you tell me flat out that the DAvid Tua that fight Ike Ibeabuchi was the same DAvid Tua that fought LEnnox LEwis...

In my mind he was a shell of himself...he had a very short prime based upon his lack of training, he had no business being 245 against LL...oh and Tua lost against Ike and I said that was his prime...a loss (I scored the fight a draw and could have easily given the fight to Tuaman but I admit there was a bias on my part for the up and coming president.)

fair enough..I do agree Tua was heavier than his best against Lewis. I think styles make fights..as much as a cliche that is. Tua regardless of prime would not have been able to get close enough to land the shot against Lewis. I just get tired of all the negative **** thrown at Lewis. I'm not even a Lewis lover, just respect what he was able to accomplish. The Tua and Ike myths of greatness get very old. I hear more positive crap about those two "never was'" than I do about Lewis. Bottom line is that neither Tua or Ike proved anything. If Tua was great, he would have been in shape against Lewis and won.

as far as being the same fighter against Ike, I suppose not, but then again Ike is not the same guy as Lewis...again, styles.

fair enough..I do agree Tua was heavier than his best against Lewis. I think styles make fights..as much as a cliche that is. Tua regardless of prime would not have been able to get close enough to land the shot against Lewis. I just get tired of all the negative **** thrown at Lewis. I'm not even a Lewis lover, just respect what he was able to accomplish. The Tua and Ike myths of greatness get very old. I hear more positive crap about those two "never was'" than I do about Lewis. Bottom line is that neither Tua or Ike proved anything. If Tua was great, he would have been in shape against Lewis and won.

as far as being the same fighter against Ike, I suppose not, but then again Ike is not the same guy as Lewis...again, styles.


Tua was most definately not great...I got tired a long time ago of wanting Tua to be champ more than David did himself. Ike was a amazing, when he fought Tua, Tua was like 29-0 and Ike was like 12-0 or some **** like that...he was still a baby and he did not have one weakness in the ring...I believe he would have improved and kept doing so.

Your right though neither can ever stack up too Lewis and his accomplishments...I hated that Mother****er for a long time but now I really miss him...2005 with all of the great fights that are already set would have been complete with a hw super fight...it is still going to be a great year but LL vs. VK would have been somehting!

By the way I slightly lean towards LEwis if that fight were to happen...very slightly

Tua was most definately not great...I got tired a long time ago of wanting Tua to be champ more than David did himself. Ike was a amazing, when he fought Tua, Tua was like 29-0 and Ike was like 12-0 or some **** like that...he was still a baby and he did not have one weakness in the ring...I believe he would have improved and kept doing so.

Your right though neither can ever stack up too Lewis and his accomplishments...I hated that Mother****er for a long time but now I really miss him...2005 with all of the great fights that are already set would have been complete with a hw super fight...it is still going to be a great year but LL vs. VK would have been somehting!

By the way I slightly lean towards LEwis if that fight were to happen...very slightly


In another thread I mentioned that I thought it was funny that everyone *****es about the state of the heavyweights and thought people should miss Lewis instead of bad mouthing him. Thats why he is great for the divison. He would bring some excitement. As far as the rematch with VK, I still think it will happen. I have a hard time seeing Lewis getting back into fighting shape, but how could he resist the $. I'll hold judgement on the outcome untill I see what kind of shape Lenny gets in. It's a great fight styles wise. Two big lugs slugging it out..doesn't get any better than that.

why r u guys *****ing about tua fighting lewis not in his prime who cares????? tua isnt great at all and he coulnt beat lewis anyway cause lewis would know he has to jab all night

Like I said When was the lAST TIME two legit great heavyweights were in there primes at the same time.

All the fights you named happend 30+ years ago and were pretty much in that one Ali, Foreman, Frazier era. No Tony Tucker is not a great fighter.

Bowe vs Holyfield was another, but the only reason Bowe vs Lewis didn't come off is because Bowe and his people didn't want to fight Lewis. No its not just Lewis' camp saying that its also Rock Newman Bowe's manager admitting he kept Bowe from Lewis.

You listed a ton of fights that Lewis won as reason to try and knock him. Does that makes sense to anybody?

No its not "fighting scared" its called boxing. When your 6'5 and have a telaphone pole reach its commen sense that you use your jab and stay out of range anything else would be foolish.

No Tua was never a volume puncher. Go back and look at his first fight with Rahman and his fight with Maskeave before Ike. Its pretty much him waiting around for his left hook to land. The fight with Ike happend like that because Ike forced the pace Like Marvdave said styles make fights.

Again for the third ****ing time Tua was no where near his prime against Lennox...watch Tua fight Rock the first time and Ike...that was Tua at his best...Tua was a shell of himself when he finally got too fight LEwis which was years later...look at the weight differences and then watch the young tua and then come back here and tell me that LL fought Tua in his prime.

I don't think a lot of people have ever even seen Tua at his best 220's...so before telling me that LL fought a guy that was in his prime make sure you have seen the guy in his prime, thank you.
Yawn. You're right, your argument is still obtuse - even after the third time :p

Look, if you want to argue that Tua was not in his absolute peak fighting form at the time of his fight with Lewis, sure, fine, whatever. In fact, no one is ever at their absolute peak fighting form any time they fight, are they? But the fact is, the Tua that came to fight Lewis was coming off 10 straight wins (9 by KO) after his decision loss to Ike, so even if he wasn't at his peak, he was still pretty darn good.

Fact is, you could argue Lewis wasn't at his peak either when he fought Tua, or Ruddock or Holy or Tyson... ...but then all you're doing is deconstructing any basis for debate in the first place (e.g. Tua had a cold when he fought Ike so that fight's not valid, Holy had a rib injury in the 3rd Bowe fight so that one's not valid, etc. etc.).

The truth of the matter is that Lewis fought some pretty good boxers in his career and beat them all. Maybe they weren't at their tip-top best the night he fought them, but they were still pretty good, and he beat them. It's strange to me how you can't see that - but who knows, maybe the 4th time's a charm! ;)

ANYONE'S record can be taken apart piece by piece and discredited. Lewis WAS a better heavyweight than Holyfield and ranks higher all time, but Holyfield is higher in a P4P sense because of his cruiserweight accomplishments. Holyfield was in the middle of his best spell as a heavyweight when Lewis fought him. Just take a look at Lewis's resume. Seriously, its pretty impressive the amount of very good fighters he beat. Pretty much every top 90s heavyweight except Bowe and we know what happened there.

Yawn. You're right, your argument is still obtuse - even after the third time :p

Look, if you want to argue that Tua was not in his absolute peak fighting form at the time of his fight with Lewis, sure, fine, whatever. In fact, no one is ever at their absolute peak fighting form any time they fight, are they? But the fact is, the Tua that came to fight Lewis was coming off 10 straight wins (9 by KO) after his decision loss to Ike, so even if he wasn't at his peak, he was still pretty darn good.

Fact is, you could argue Lewis wasn't at his peak either when he fought Tua, or Ruddock or Holy or Tyson... ...but then all you're doing is deconstructing any basis for debate in the first place (e.g. Tua had a cold when he fought Ike so that fight's not valid, Holy had a rib injury in the 3rd Bowe fight so that one's not valid, etc. etc.).

The truth of the matter is that Lewis fought some pretty good boxers in his career and beat them all. Maybe they weren't at their tip-top best the night he fought them, but they were still pretty good, and he beat them. It's strange to me how you can't see that - but who knows, maybe the 4th time's a charm! ;)

thats the second time in my life I've heard the term obtuse. Nice job! Never heard the word before Shawshank Redemption :D

guess I should have went to school more often ;)

Only time will tell, but IMO lennox was a great champ, he didn't duck anyone and when hr fought his rematches he destroyed the comp. Greatest heavyweight jab since Larry Holmes.

Mos Def Ll Will Go Down As Top 10 And Maybe That Is Underrating Him Did He Or Did He Not Beat Everyone That He Was Suppose To Tyson, Holyfield,klithsko??,rahman, Tua And That Tall Dude That Was A ****ing Bum.

He never had Lewis hurt at any point in either fight.

If Micheal Moorer could outbox a "prime" Holyfield what makes you think Lewis couln't do it?

If Bowe could take 2/3 and KO a "Prime" Holyfield what makes you think Lewis couldn't?

Evander Holyfield was a tough guy, but he lost more big fights than he won and was far from unbeatable.

7th round in the second fight, Lewis was hurt bad, go and watch it again.

Holyfield had tremendous handspeed in his prime and threw great combinations and you cuple that with the fact that Lewis has a subpar chin and no doubt Holyfield stops Lewis.

Sure Lennox is a very good heavyweight champion but look at his body of work...what good or great fighter has he beaten that was in their respected primes?

Holyfiled was no where near his prime and LL in a lot of peoples minds lost the second fight. Tyson was so far gone it is not even worth mentioning.

Maybe Ray Mercer was in his prime but he was probably at the very end of it and I for one think Lennox lost that fight.

Did he beat Rock in his prime...yeah I guess he did but the best Rahman I saw was the younger Rock the one that fought Tua the first time in the 220's.

One victory that was huge for Lewis was his win over Razor Ruddock but was Ruddock first off any good? And secondly was he in his prime?
Ruddock at the time was in the middle of changing styles and trainers and looked very ackward in the ring, the Ruddock that Lewis fought was different then the one Tyson fought.

Golota? This was a big victory for Lewis as well, I personally thought that Lewis was in real trouble but he easily beat the polish retard...does this count...I don't think so but maybe you do?

Lewis has been around a long time and he was fighting as a serious contender when Holyfiled was in his prime, Tyson was still a very formidable foe when Lewis was whacking guys out of there and of course the mythical matchup that never came to fruition being the fight with Bowe...

So I ask all of the members of boxincscene to come up with an argument that puts Lewis in a better light than the one that I portray...too me VK is in his prime and if he were to come back and ko VK that woould be the only guy woth mentioning on LL's resume that he beat in his prime.

Lennox Lewis, certainly a good heavyweight Champ, but in Holyfield's class...no ****ing way!


ur a idiot...lewis would beat holyfield and tyson at any point in his carrer..and bowe also

ur a idiot...lewis would beat holyfield and tyson at any point in his carrer..and bowe also



umm no that is wrong i dont know what else to say its just not true

ur a idiot...lewis would beat holyfield and tyson at any point in his carrer..and bowe also


im srry but this is the most idiotic and absrud post ever, i mean i know i have said stupid things in the past and present on this board but i mean this takes the cake i cant expalin the brainlessness behind this post, peopel like you r why i hate lennox lewis

ur a idiot...lewis would beat holyfield and tyson at any point in his carrer..and bowe also

Maybe you need to watch the 220 pound version of Lewis who was completed dominated by Frank Bruno before he caught Bruno with a right when Bruno was trying to finish him...this Lewis was nothing special at all...your right I am an idiot there is no question!

It is nice to know there are people like you out there, your one of the most well skilled posters on this board and I want you to know that if you ever outgrow boxingscene and one day leave that will spell the end for me as well...remember I love you and you just keep on keepin on...

Love Scap

I love how this entire thread you have complained about Lewis not fighting anyone in there primes, but when it comes time to match Lewis up against Tyson and Holyfield you choose the Lewis who fought Frank Bruno.

Fact is everyone looks bad at certian points. How did Holyfield look against Bert Cooper? or Tyson against Douglas?

I love how this entire thread you have complained about Lewis not fighting anyone in there primes, but when it comes time to match Lewis up against Tyson and Holyfield you choose the Lewis who fought Frank Bruno.

Fact is everyone looks bad at certian points. How did Holyfield look against Bert Cooper? or Tyson against Douglas?

You're correct Jose and this is obviously just a LL haters thread. I've never particularly liked him but Lewis was nowhere near as accomplished a fighter when he faced Bruno as he was in his prime (I was cheering for Bruno to smash his face in). He was the dominant force in his era and would have done to Holyfield what Bowe did but even more so if they had met when Holyfield was truly in his prime. Some of the names being put above him in the all time ratings on this thread are laughable. Compare their dominance and quality of opposition that they beat to Lewis' and it's not even close. He's easily worth a place in the top 10-15, especially when you compare his achievements to someone like Schmelling or Bowe. IMO his record is better than Hopkins or Tzsyu's in terms of opposition yet I don't see many people berating them when they're mentioned as all time greats.

I can't believe I'm defending him because I do think he's a total dick but some of the comments on this thread are ****ing ridiculous.

I love how this entire thread you have complained about Lewis not fighting anyone in there primes, but when it comes time to match Lewis up against Tyson and Holyfield you choose the Lewis who fought Frank Bruno.

Fact is everyone looks bad at certian points. How did Holyfield look against Bert Cooper? or Tyson against Douglas?

You idiot Jose the guy that I was speaking with said Lewis at any stage in his career could beat Tyson, Holy, or Bowe...I don't care how much love you have for Lewis the Lewis against Bruno was a different fighter, same goes for when he fought Biggs, or Tucker and a lot of other guys...that Lewis is not the great LEwis and he was still a few years out of his prime that is what I was pointing out...cmon wheres your brain Jose...get the nut out of your eye, ****in spanish brit...

Do you think the young Lennox, the one that weighed in the 220's could have beaten a prime Holy or a prime Tyson? Well do you?
That was the argument!

I love how this entire thread you have complained about Lewis not fighting anyone in there primes, but when it comes time to match Lewis up against Tyson and Holyfield you choose the Lewis who fought Frank Bruno.

Fact is everyone looks bad at certian points. How did Holyfield look against Bert Cooper? or Tyson against Douglas?
Then take everyone when they look thier best. Lewis and Holyfield are very boring and dont look like champions in comparison to Tyson,Ali,Frazier, and Foreman.

Holyfield boring? He was the most consistently exciting heavyweight of the 90's.

Lennox great? yeah Lennox is great BUT not THAT great.

Just AVERAGE great. lol!

ill put lennox lewis in the top 15 or top 20 greatest HWs of all time, but i will never put him in the top 10 HWs of all time.

First off a prime Holyfield would not murder Lewis and Lewis is top 10 no dought. If u can name 9 heavys who would be favored over Lewis is his prime i would be shocked. I can think of a few ALi, Joe Louis, and maybe Marciano, and Foreman. For the record i dont care how hard the rock hit he would be Murdered by Lewis, he would Jab the rock to death before putting him to sleep. (Lewis is just to big for him the rock had a 68 inch reach and stood 5-10 1/4)

Lewis Profile
Stands 6'5"
Reach 84"
weight 240
Pro record 41-2-1
Amateur Record 75-7 (54 kos)
In 1984 knocked out Riddick Bowe
for Gold Medal.

IBRO historians ranked Lewis in the top 10 greatest heavy list. Of course these are boxing people with long view of history, not a pack of punks posing on a message board.

First off a prime Holyfield would not murder Lewis and Lewis is top 10 no dought. If u can name 9 heavys who would be favored over Lewis is his prime i would be shocked. I can think of a few ALi, Joe Louis, and maybe Marciano, and Foreman. For the record i dont care how hard the rock hit he would be Murdered by Lewis, he would Jab the rock to death before putting him to sleep. (Lewis is just to big for him the rock had a 68 inch reach and stood 5-10 1/4)

Lewis Profile
Stands 6'5"
Reach 84"
weight 240
Pro record 41-2-1
Amateur Record 75-7 (54 kos)
In 1984 knocked out Riddick Bowe
for Gold Medal.
ill try to name 9 fighters who could beat lennox lewis:

1. Joe Louis KO
2. Muhammad Ali UD
3. Rocky Marciano KO
4. 1974 George Foreman KO
5. Jack Johnson UD
6. Jack Dempsey KO
7. Jim Jeffries (yes, i said Jim Jeffries) KO
8. Vitali Klitschko TKO
9. 1988 Mike Tyson KO


if you want me to explain my answers, i will.

I think everyone is missing the boat as to how they rank the top HW's...

You need to rank them just as the same as you rank todays p4p list.

For example Ezzard Charles p4p is twice the fighter that LL is but would he beat LL straight up...probably not.

Is Ezzard a greater champ, absolutely.

Think of it as a p4p not who would beat who, things are far to different no as opposed to then.

ill try to name 9 fighters who could beat lennox lewis:

1. Joe Louis KO
2. Muhammad Ali UD
3. Rocky Marciano KO
4. 1974 George Foreman KO
5. Jack Johnson UD
6. Jack Dempsey KO
7. Jim Jeffries (yes, i said Jim Jeffries) KO
8. Vitali Klitschko TKO
9. 1988 Mike Tyson KO


if you want me to explain my answers, i will.


Thats actually not a bad list but some of them are just ridulous. Jim Jeffries thats a joke and Vitali he could not even beat an out of shape Lennox. Marcaino is way to small regardless of his record and power. I also dont think Jack Johnoson or Dempsey have a chance in hell. I agree with Louis, ALi and the 1988 Mike Tyson but even thats a toss up.

Thats actually not a bad list but some of them are just ridulous. Jim Jeffries thats a joke and Vitali he could not even beat an out of shape Lennox. Marcaino is way to small regardless of his record and power. I also dont think Jack Johnoson or Dempsey have a chance in hell. I agree with Louis, ALi and the 1988 Mike Tyson but even thats a toss up.


MAn, you didnt listen to a word I said.

Exactly. You can't really do a "who'd beat who" when comparing these champions because conditions and rules change with each passing era. Would these fights take place in the era of the modern fighter or the old timer? 20 rounds or 15 rounds or 12? What sized gloves? There are no right or wrong answers to these questions.

It's just as unfair to make Lennox Lewis fight Jack Johnson in a 20 round fight with small gloves as it is to have Johnson fight Lewis with big padded gloves for only 12 rounds. It's impossible to find a neutral "fair" ground to hold these fantasy fights in.

When ranking champions you have to go by how they fared in their own era, the talent of their opposition, and the talent and ability they displayed against that opposition.

Thats actually not a bad list but some of them are just ridulous. Jim Jeffries thats a joke and Vitali he could not even beat an out of shape Lennox. Marcaino is way to small regardless of his record and power. I also dont think Jack Johnoson or Dempsey have a chance in hell. I agree with Louis, ALi and the 1988 Mike Tyson but even thats a toss up.
if dempsey beat some1 as big as jess willard in one of the most one sided matches in history, imagine what he could to do lennox lewis.

jim jeffries had awsome defense, endless stamina, a very strong chin, one punch KO power, and his style was VERY VERY awkward.

marciano needs to land ONE PUNCH to KO lennox lewis and trust me, marciano would land it, too.

saying jack johnson couldnt beat lennox lewis is just outrageous. jack johnson had probly the best defense in HW history. he was the first person to fight with his left foot and left hand in front of his right. johnson had good power, too. saying he couldnt beat lewis is just unforgivable.

Joe Louis would RAPE lennox lewis.

Muhammad Ali would DESTROY lennox lewis.

a 1988 Mike Tyson would possibly beat lewis, but its not a one-sided affair.

MAn, you didnt listen to a word I said.

Yes, i did and i agree but post was dealing with HW's and Lennox is top 10. ;)

I never liked Lewis. He was definitely a good boxer. But I just never liked him.

[[[jim jeffries had awsome defense, endless stamina, a very strong chin, one punch KO power, and his style was VERY VERY awkward.

marciano needs to land ONE PUNCH to KO lennox lewis and trust me, marciano would land it, too.

saying jack johnson couldnt beat lennox lewis is just outrageous. jack johnson had probly the best defense in HW history.]]]
=============================

You know nothing of these boxers, so why do you pose so?

Jeffries was a first rate talent and a bit awkward because of a one off style developed for him, but most of his title fights against the top comp of his day went into late rounds and he was outboxed by Corbett and Jeffries before KOing them. Sharkey gave him toe to toe hell. Lewis could easily break him down unless Jeffries were allowed to retrain to the modern style of fighting.

Marciano wore down his victims with endless pressure and punches. His early KOs were against journeymen and he was barely better than the older challengers of his generation. Lewis had 50 more lbs of muscle and damn near a foot and half of reach over Rocky. IF Rocky would work inside he'd quickly be KOed by a overhand right or uppercut. This is a mismatch. Rocky sized heavies don't exist anymore. Ever bothered to ask WHY?

Jack Johnson never beat a prime heavy close to the caliber of Lewis. Johnson was knocked out by a middleweight and knocked down by another. Lewis would KO Johnson by the 3rd round in an otherwise very boring fight with Johnson holding on for dear life.

[[[jim jeffries had awsome defense, endless stamina, a very strong chin, one punch KO power, and his style was VERY VERY awkward.

marciano needs to land ONE PUNCH to KO lennox lewis and trust me, marciano would land it, too.

saying jack johnson couldnt beat lennox lewis is just outrageous. jack johnson had probly the best defense in HW history.]]]
=============================

You know nothing of these boxers, so why do you pose so?

Jeffries was a first rate talent and a bit awkward because of a one off style developed for him, but most of his title fights against the top comp of his day went into late rounds and he was outboxed by Corbett and Jeffries before KOing them. Sharkey gave him toe to toe hell. Lewis could easily break him down unless Jeffries were allowed to retrain to the modern style of fighting.

Marciano wore down his victims with endless pressure and punches. His early KOs were against journeymen and he was barely better than the older challengers of his generation. Lewis had 50 more lbs of muscle and damn near a foot and half of reach over Rocky. IF Rocky would work inside he'd quickly be KOed by a overhand right or uppercut. This is a mismatch. Rocky sized heavies don't exist anymore. Ever bothered to ask WHY?

Jack Johnson never beat a prime heavy close to the caliber of Lewis. Johnson was knocked out by a middleweight and knocked down by another. Lewis would KO Johnson by the 3rd round in an otherwise very boring fight with Johnson holding on for dear life.
just saying that lewis would KO marciano, with one punch no less, just proves how stupid you are.

lewis would KO johnson in the 3rd? again, thats just a ****ing idiot statement made by a ****ing idiot.

for the sake of every1's intelligence (or lack therof), dont ever post on this forum ever again.

ill try to name 9 fighters who could beat lennox lewis:

1. Joe Louis KO
2. Muhammad Ali UD
3. Rocky Marciano KO
4. 1974 George Foreman KO
5. Jack Johnson UD
6. Jack Dempsey KO
7. Jim Jeffries (yes, i said Jim Jeffries) KO
8. Vitali Klitschko TKO
9. 1988 Mike Tyson KO


if you want me to explain my answers, i will.


LOL!

It's clear how much credibility this litttle pissant holds in this discussion.

LOL!

It's clear how much credibility this litttle pissant holds in this discussion.
who invited you?

mind you own ****ing business!

Sure Lennox is a very good heavyweight champion but look at his body of work...what good or great fighter has he beaten that was in their respected primes?

Holyfiled was no where near his prime and LL in a lot of peoples minds lost the second fight. Tyson was so far gone it is not even worth mentioning.

Maybe Ray Mercer was in his prime but he was probably at the very end of it and I for one think Lennox lost that fight.

Did he beat Rock in his prime...yeah I guess he did but the best Rahman I saw was the younger Rock the one that fought Tua the first time in the 220's.

One victory that was huge for Lewis was his win over Razor Ruddock but was Ruddock first off any good? And secondly was he in his prime?
Ruddock at the time was in the middle of changing styles and trainers and looked very ackward in the ring, the Ruddock that Lewis fought was different then the one Tyson fought.

Golota? This was a big victory for Lewis as well, I personally thought that Lewis was in real trouble but he easily beat the polish retard...does this count...I don't think so but maybe you do?

Lewis has been around a long time and he was fighting as a serious contender when Holyfiled was in his prime, Tyson was still a very formidable foe when Lewis was whacking guys out of there and of course the mythical matchup that never came to fruition being the fight with Bowe...

So I ask all of the members of boxincscene to come up with an argument that puts Lewis in a better light than the one that I portray...too me VK is in his prime and if he were to come back and ko VK that woould be the only guy woth mentioning on LL's resume that he beat in his prime.

Lennox Lewis, certainly a good heavyweight Champ, but in Holyfield's class...no ****ing way!
you cant put Lewis is any better light he was a ****ty heavy weight champ there was noone good in the division back then when he was champ just like the Klit bro's and them being the champ/champs there is noone else and the real contenders are all past their prime. I dont think Lewis was ever great or really good for that matter he proved nothing to me throughout his career accept he towered over people and that won him fights.

Lets get things straight Lennox fought everybody he was offered at the times!!! If people want to talk about Tyson it should be known that he was being protected by then manager Don King who prefered to take easy fights for the big money being a champ and didn't bank on Holfield being any prolem! Tyson v Lewis in their primes would have been the biggest and best fight of all time but it wasn't meant to be. Who would win? The only thing that is sure is Lennox certainly wouldn't be beaten on points. I would predict Lewis would beat him just like Buster Douglas did.

Holfield was the biggest cheat I think I have ever had the misfortune of seeing and wonder why he has a good reputation (Does anybody notice just how many times he leads in with his head in fights). To add to that he aint a natural heavyweight with his tiny 29' waist and he cant be seen as a real champ cause he cant let the sport go gracefully go. Also did he fight Tyson? Certainly NOT!!!!!

Bowe doesn't really need explaining (throwing a coverted WBC title into a bin rather than face Lennox) and he was beaten in the olympic finals anyways!

Lewis should remain at the top. Im talking No1 guys!!! 2 lucky punches due to complacency are the only bad points on his record. This guy was the perfect athlete and a brilliant ambassedor to the sport.

The fact that Lennox has came back from his losses and been even better by having the discipline to change things proves his status! The only problem is where is the next line of great heavyweights going to come from. My tip is Audley Harrison despite his first split decision loss last night. I would love to see Manny Steward train him and get the best out of him just as he did for Lennox after the first McCall fight.

Peace out and sorry if i've said something you haven't agreed with but were all different and we all have different opinions.

"The Maryport Mauler", "Dangerous" Dave McGibbon

"who did he fight" "who did he fight" you can say that about every fighter that ever lived . He fought the best fighters he could fight in his era. First of all in the 90's we had some good fighters at heavyweight that could have been all time greats in another time Ruddock for one is comparable to Ken Norton in size, power, chin, if not better maybe not in skill but you get the point. To take away from a figher based on things out of his control i feel robs you of the enjoyment of the fighter. You will always compare him with the next guy yet never get a true answer which will leave you unfulfilled. Just take it for what it was Lewis, Tyson, Holyfield, Bowe, are all great fighters now let them be at peace. Just to hold the heavyweight title is a 1 in a billion that is what makes them great

How do you figure he beats Holyfield in his prime? Holyfield hurt Lewis bad a couple of times in their rematch and that Holyfield was way past his prime.

Holyfield ****ing murders Lewis prime for prime!

first of all, did you saw the fight? if yes did you saw the headbutts?. in round 5 few second before lewis tackle holyfield on the rope, holyfield almost headbutted lewis head off., i watched that fight in slowmotion and very closely holyfield headbutts lewis
3 out of 6 times were heavily headbutts. i think holyfiel wasent same fighter as when he was young so he need to use dirty tactic to
compensate. and second i think the decision in the first fight effect lewis. like he felt he need to ko holyfield to convince the judges he was wide open almost all the time.