Serious question.

It's just that, on reflection, there's no way Roy could ever be held as a real great. But if he'd put his powers to a war (making the perhaps fantastical presumption that he had a chin in his youth) he would have done better.

But in terms of what his body was capable of doing - was he more superhuman than Ali? Be objective.

since roy juiced, they are uncontrastable.

since roy juiced, they are uncontrastable.


roy juiced? when?

It can be argued that Jones was the superior athlete...ie speed,jumping,etc but Ali was the better fighter who held all advantages as far as the intangables...courage,toughness,ring intelligence

roy juiced? when?

http://www.*************.net/news/stories/61774588.php

believe what ya want, im sure if you are a die hard RJJ fan you'll believe it was the ripped fuel or the nose spray.

but me, I know he juiced.

RJJ was far superior to Ali as an athlete, how much is down to the juice i dont know.

It's neck and neck.Maybe Roy by a bit or so.

i dont understand what do u mean by athlete?

His reflexes were slightly better than Ali but that's about it. Ali beats him in every other department.

in terms of pure talent alone, i think Roy is superior, but what makes a great fighter isn't only talent - it's also all the intangibles. RJJ had the greater God given natural talent, but Ali was a much more complete fighter, he had a little less talent but all the chin, heart, and psychology that Roy never had ( keep in mind i'm not a big Ali fan, hell, i'm more of a RJJ fan ). Like someone elese said, in terms of talent alone, Roy is top 10 of all time, in terms of career, he is MAYBE top 50. THAT'S the difference between talent alone and talent + chin and heart

His hands were faster and his feet were more "fleet footed :D " than Ali's....but overall Ali was a far greater FIGHTER.

He was also a P4P harder puncher than Ali. Still, as has been said before, Ali had all of the intangibles in his favor and they are what make a very good fighter a great fighter.

Good replies, guys, I'm delighted that you've all taken it in the spirit it was meant.

in terms of pure talent alone, i think Roy is superior, but what makes a great fighter isn't only talent - it's also all the intangibles. RJJ had the greater God given natural talent, but Ali was a much more complete fighter, he had a little less talent but all the chin, heart, and psychology that Roy never had ( keep in mind i'm not a big Ali fan, hell, i'm more of a RJJ fan ). Like someone elese said, in terms of talent alone, Roy is top 10 of all time, in terms of career, he is MAYBE top 50. THAT'S the difference between talent alone and talent + chin and heart
yes, i agree. very good point dude... i say ali by a hairline...

I'd say as far from an athletic stand point there probably equal.

Tyson was more athletically gifted than the 2 of them .

he will be remembered by all the bums that he fought :D he was overrated

roy was better then ali in ever department other then chin...and u see what that chin has done for ali today

But in terms of what his body was capable of doing - was he more superhuman than Ali? Be objective.
In terms of Boxing Orthodoxy, Ali was beautiful. Roy was fun to watch 'cause his **** came from all sorts of angles. But, Roy was all around super athlete with monster reflexes, who was able to hit-without-getting-hit.

I figure Roy would have gotten out of the fight game very early on, if he had been tagged regularly. That doesn't happen though when you stay way the hell outside and pick-off your guy from every angle. I prefer, and so do most fight fans, to see something resembling a "boxing" bout with some semblance of Orthodoxy.

ali was better in every single aspect ali fought the best
RJJ basicaly hand picked his oponnent what's the fun in that
the only time he fought real oposition he got knocked out twice :D

i'll give this to ali...

ali was better in every single aspect ali fought the best
RJJ basicaly hand picked his oponnent what's the fun in that
the only time he fought real oposition he got knocked out twice
:D

ali was better in every single aspect ali fought the best
RJJ basicaly hand picked his oponnent what's the fun in that
the only time he fought real oposition he got knocked out twice
:D
lmao
ya right
johnson was handpicked too
:D

Personally I dont think anyone was more talented (or gifted) than Ali..not even the "great" Roy Jones! :rolleyes:

Personally I dont think anyone was more talented (or gifted) than Ali..not even the "great" Roy Jones! :rolleyes:

God gifted Ali with a huge ego, thats about it.

He was an overated fighter in an overated era, i'll never understand why so many people got sucked in to the whole "greatest fighter" bull****.

Roy jones was not only a better athlete but i'd pick him to hand Ali his ass!!

God gifted Ali with a huge ego, thats about it.

He was an overated fighter in an overated era, i'll never understand why so many people got sucked in to the whole "greatest fighter" bull****.

Roy jones was not only a better athlete but i'd pick him to hand Ali his ass!!

Will you and I ever agree on anything, you think?? :D
Ali was the complete package..and he could be confident without making people hate him for it too..which I think does take a certain talent alone, just to do that. The one thing I cant stand about Jones was always his conceit, which he still has in ample supply. Ali had charisma, speed, and skill. And I honestly dont see Jones being able to beat him, let alone hand him his ass! :eek:

Will you and I ever agree on anything, you think?? :D
Ali was the complete package..and he could be confident without making people hate him for it too..which I think does take a certain talent alone, just to do that. The one thing I cant stand about Jones was always his conceit, which he still has in ample supply. Ali had charisma, speed, and skill. And I honestly dont see Jones being able to beat him, let alone hand him his ass! :eek:

Yes sure we will, the next time you get something right :p

I agree Ali did have excellent people skills, IMO they were too good because it convinced people he was the greatest sportsman the world has ever seen!

I think Ali was a good fighter but he was very overated, and IMO Jones would win well. I know most people would disagree but i've watched these two fight countless amounts of times and i'd never change my mind. :cool:

Yes sure we will, the next time you get something right :p

I agree Ali did have excellent people skills, IMO they were too good because it convinced people he was the greatest sportsman the world has ever seen!

I think Ali was a good fighter but he was very overated, and IMO Jones would win well. I know most people would disagree but i've watched these two fight countless amounts of times and i'd never change my mind. :cool:

I'm ALWAYS right..you've just not caught on to that yet! :D (okay, now I'm making myself sick!!!).
All I know is that Ali's ego never bothered me, but Jones' ego is the one thing I hate about him. Funny thing is, a while back I posted something about him shamelessly promoting himself while commentating on HBO, and that he was asked a question about Holyfield, and felt the need to answer it "thats how US warriors are..we never quit" (or something like that) and then the other day I read in World Boxing an article by Jim Bagg and he said basically the same thing! It tripped me out..I thought I was the only one that saw it, or him, that way..guess I was wrong :eek:

God gifted Ali with a huge ego, thats about it.

He was an overated fighter in an overated era, i'll never understand why so many people got sucked in to the whole "greatest fighter" bull****.

Roy jones was not only a better athlete but i'd pick him to hand Ali his ass!!


your kidding right?

but me, I know he juiced.

Yeah..you just "know"...right. How are you, Miss Cleo?

In any case, Roy is a great boxer, one of the greatest of all tme according to Bert Sugar, but I myself would not rate him above Ali. Still, just because of his unnatural talent, anybody would be a fool not to give him a CHANCE to beat Ali. In addition, anyone who says Jones isn't one of the greats just because you don't like his style or he wsn't in scores of action-packed fights, is a hater....plain and simple.

your kidding right?

No, i just cant believe all the Ali hype. I was lucky enough to see Ali fight before i heard the hype.

And before anyone asks, yes i have seen Ali fight though every stage of his career(a million times).

To be honest i always get the same reaction, thats why dont speak on it often. Thats why i prefer not to debate the subject. **** knows why i even entered this thread :D

I'm ALWAYS right..you've just not caught on to that yet! :D (okay, now I'm making myself sick!!!).
All I know is that Ali's ego never bothered me, but Jones' ego is the one thing I hate about him. Funny thing is, a while back I posted something about him shamelessly promoting himself while commentating on HBO, and that he was asked a question about Holyfield, and felt the need to answer it "thats how US warriors are..we never quit" (or something like that) and then the other day I read in World Boxing an article by Jim Bagg and he said basically the same thing! It tripped me out..I thought I was the only one that saw it, or him, that way..guess I was wrong :eek:

I dont like Jones's ego, same thing with fighter like Mayweather, Toney, Judah etc etc. Personally i prefer the the strong willed respectful fighters, but I never let attitude outside the ring effect my judgement of a fighter

I liked Ali's ego in a way, it was funny rather than rude, BUT i think far too many people got sucked into this "the greatest" tag.

Serious question.

It's just that, on reflection, there's no way Roy could ever be held as a real great. But if he'd put his powers to a war (making the perhaps fantastical presumption that he had a chin in his youth) he would have done better.

But in terms of what his body was capable of doing - was he more superhuman than Ali? Be objective.

Ali was just too good
you really cant compare RJJ to him
its a sin

Rjj Superior Athlete, Ali Better Boxer

*elveiel bites his tongue and counts to ten*

No, i just cant believe all the Ali hype. I was lucky enough to see Ali fight before i heard the hype.

And before anyone asks, yes i have seen Ali fight though every stage of his career(a million times).

To be honest i always get the same reaction, thats why dont speak on it often. Thats why i prefer not to debate the subject. **** knows why i even entered this thread :D

look at who he fought and beat throughout his career. pre traitor he humiliated Sonny Liston,among others. post traitor he fought and beat Frazier. What about the Foreman fight? I'm not going to sit here and say he was unbeatable,becuase he was beaten plenty. Nobody is unbeatable(respect to the Rock) but the accomplishments and skill he displayed are unmatched. If you are looking at his fights against his "bum of the month club" tour like Blin, Wepner, etc you would be underwhelmed. Juding him in the big fights he fought you must have some sort of agenda to not admit he was indeed the Greatest. The seventies are the greatest era of boxing ever..not overrated at all. He was even a better fighter in the sixties, but his suspension took away what could have been his most productive years.

I think you probably suffer from what alot of people suffer from...sick of hearing about him(Ali)

*elveiel bites his tongue and counts to ten*


keep counting :D

look at who he fought and beat throughout his career. pre traitor he humiliated Sonny Liston,among others. post traitor he fought and beat Frazier. What about the Foreman fight? I'm not going to sit here and say he was unbeatable,becuase he was beaten plenty. Nobody is unbeatable(respect to the Rock) but the accomplishments and skill he displayed are unmatched. If you are looking at his fights against his "bum of the month club" tour like Blin, Wepner, etc you would be underwhelmed. Juding him in the big fights he fought you must have some sort of agenda to not admit he was indeed the Greatest. The seventies are the greatest era of boxing ever..not overrated at all. He was even a better fighter in the sixties, but his suspension took away what could have been his most productive years.

I think you probably suffer from what alot of people suffer from...sick of hearing about him(Ali)

I picked up that illness a while ago and it seems to get worst with time. :D

I just dont like his style of fighting, i'm a Marciano fan.

*elveiel cant resist saying it*

Marciano would have beaten Ali!! :D

I picked up that illness a while ago and it seems to get worst with time. :D

I just dont like his style of fighting, i'm a Marciano fan.

*elveiel cant resist saying it*

Marciano would have beaten Ali!! :D

why did you have to go and say that? You and that stupid computer in 1969 are the only ones. :D

hell, maybe we dig up The rock and throw on that same toupee he wore for the computer match back on his head and see who would win now ;) .

*elveiel bites his tongue and counts to ten*

Do that buddy...it will get better! :D

roy is great but ali is best. roy hand ali hiss ass? second most idiotic thing ive ever heard

I don't see why Roy shouldn't be put head to head with Ali. Ali was 160 pounds in the Olympics. He could have stayed down at light-heavyweight if he wanted to. Roy couldn't beat Ali, he couldn't be the heavyweight champ like Ali was, he didn't even get the Gold Medal like Ali did. Its all about Ali.

roy is great but ali is best. roy hand ali hiss ass? second most idiotic thing ive ever heard

What was the first, Saying Sturm Rules? :rolleyes:

Your just another Ali sucker, just another person who cant believe the old time fighters were worst than todays versions.

http://www.cs.toronto.edu/~yuana/stupid.gif

What was the first, Saying Sturm Rules? :rolleyes:

Your just another Ali sucker, just another person who cant believe the old time fighters were worst than todays versions.

http://www.cs.toronto.edu/~yuana/stupid.gif


your killing me, smalls!

roy jones rooooooooooooooy

roy jones probably is a all-round better athelete than ali. but since when does that have anything to do with boxing?

His reflexes were slightly better than Ali but that's about it. Ali beats him in every other department.

I don't think his reflexes were any faster than Ali's.

Ali was a great fighter, but a lot of people hang on him in large part due to his personality, which was never seen until he came along.

Saying it is a "sin" to compare Ali to Jones is ridiculous. That is what boxing is all about. Roy is an all-time great, whether you like him or not, and even if you feel strongly that Roy would lose vs Ali, it's assinine to say that it is a "sin" compare them.

Also, I hope whoever it was that said that Ali has a gold medal and Roy does not is a fool...everyone knows Roy won the gold and was robbed of it by Korean judges. That's why Roy "lost" the gold medal fight and was still voted most outstanding fighter that year.

I do doubt Roy would beat Ali head to head, but Roy's footwork and athleticism, in his prime, gives him a CHANCE.

What was the first, Saying Sturm Rules? :rolleyes:

Your just another Ali sucker, just another person who cant believe the old time fighters were worst than todays versions.

http://www.cs.toronto.edu/~yuana/stupid.gif

You crack me up!! :D That is a curious thing though; I wonder what was the first too?? (Long as it wasnt anything I said, then I'm good :D )

Ali was a great fighter, but a lot of people hang on him in large part due to his personality, which was never seen until he came along.

Saying it is a "sin" to compare Ali to Jones is ridiculous. That is what boxing is all about. Roy is an all-time great, whether you like him or not, and even if you feel strongly that Roy would lose vs Ali, it's assinine to say that it is a "sin" compare them.

Also, I hope whoever it was that said that Ali has a gold medal and Roy does not is a fool...everyone knows Roy won the gold and was robbed of it by Korean judges. That's why Roy "lost" the gold medal fight and was still voted most outstanding fighter that year.

I do doubt Roy would beat Ali head to head, but Roy's footwork and athleticism, in his prime, gives him a CHANCE.

:D

I was going to make exactly the same point about the gold medal comment.

God gifted Ali with a huge ego, thats about it.

He was an overated fighter in an overated era, i'll never understand why so many people got sucked in to the whole "greatest fighter" bull****.

Roy jones was not only a better athlete but i'd pick him to hand Ali his ass!!

you know you are right, and I agree with you. I think alot of people thought he was the greatest because of his alias, "The Greatest" and his ego, myself. I could pick a few modern heavies that in their prime would have destroyed a prime ali, but this is logical, as technology advances so did nutrition. today theres things like Centrum ,l-glutamine supplements, Ripped Fuel, brainquicken, and Muscle Milk,(and many other things) and thats why the athletes are superior today

Those things don't really help much though. Heavyweights are slower and less coordinated than ever and constantly come to fight out of shape. Your logic works with sports like track and field, football, and perhaps even baseball, but boxing is entirely different. Weight training actually hinders most boxers (there are some like Holyfield who used it effectively) because they are bulked up and fighting at higher weight classes than they should be. Muscle dosen't help you take a punch better, frame size and your physical makeup do. If muscle mass really improved your chin than Bob Sapp would be invincible.

Look at Roy Jones. The guy has the frame and skull size of a 150 lber. His body was not made to deal with a supermiddleweights punches, let alone a lightheavyweight's. People criticize Jones' chin but its just the fact that he's really a small guy who is seriously bulked up. Here's a good test. Does your head look really tiny on your body? If so, you are probably way too muscular and should be fighting at a lower bodyweight.

you know you are right, and I agree with you. I think alot of people thought he was the greatest because of his alias, "The Greatest" and his ego, myself. I could pick a few modern heavies that in their prime would have destroyed a prime ali, but this is logical, as technology advances so did nutrition. today theres things like Centrum ,l-glutamine supplements, Ripped Fuel, brainquicken, and Muscle Milk,(and many other things) and thats why the athletes are superior today

I had a feeling i was right, thanks for confirming it :)

I think a lot of people think the greats of their era are the best of all time, unlucky for me Ali was the most popular fighter in a very popular time for boxing.

Athlete's have obviously progressed, you only need to look at 100meter sprinters, they keep breaking the world record for a good reason - because sports science is getting better.

Those things don't really help much though. Heavyweights are slower and less coordinated than ever and constantly come to fight out of shape. Your logic works with sports like track and field, football, and perhaps even baseball, but boxing is entirely different. Weight training actually hinders most boxers (there are some like Holyfield who used it effectively) because they are bulked up and fighting at higher weight classes than they should be. Muscle dosen't help you take a punch better, frame size and your physical makeup do. If muscle mass really improved your chin than Bob Sapp would be invincible.

Look at Roy Jones. The guy has the frame and skull size of a 150 lber. His body was not made to deal with a supermiddleweights punches, let alone a lightheavyweight's. People criticize Jones' chin but its just the fact that he's really a small guy who is seriously bulked up. Here's a good test. Does your head look really tiny on your body? If so, you are probably way too muscular and should be fighting at a lower bodyweight.

either that or you have an over sized head :D

An interesting post :cool:

Also, someone here stated that Ali weighed 160 lbs for the Olympics, the same as Jones. The fact is, Ali weighed like 175 for the olympics (he fought as a light heavy I know for sure), and it was a scrawny 175 lbs. Most of it was bone. Ali at the Olympics was a heavyweight who had not filled out yet while Jones at 160 lbs was muscular and physically mature. When Ali was at his physical peak as a pro he weighed a natural 210-215 lbs at a low bodyfat percent. There's no way in hell he could have remained a light heavy without starving himself to the point where he would have been too weak to compete.

I really don't think Jones would have stood a chance. I think Michael Spinks is a LHW who would have fared much better against Ali. Jones was too short and didn't have a big enough punch.

Tyson was more gifted than either jones or ali , no fighter in any weight division had so much speed and so much power .

Tyson was more gifted than either jones or ali , no fighter in any weight division had so much speed and so much power .

Being strong has nothing to do with talent or skill. It has everything to do with working out, etc..but skill is something different all together. I may be the only one that feels that way, but I'd rather have natural born skills out the rear than just alot of power and speed.

Keep the Anorak legacy alive...continue to post on his threads!!!!!

Keep the Anorak legacy alive...continue to post on his threads!!!!!

I thought he was still posting as "Not the Anorak" or something like that?? :confused:

Roy Jones was a much more gifted athlete than Muhammad Ali. Jones was a multi-sport athlete, while Dundee admits that Ali sucked at all other sports.