View Full Version : Prime Louis vs Prime Marciano


K-DOGG
05-04-2006, 05:33 PM
Just curious on your takes and critical analyses. This is not to contest either of their places in history, just a curiousity of styles making fights with both men at their best. Marciano at his best vs Louis at his best. Who wins: how, and why?


If this has been done before, apologies.

RockyMarcianofan00
05-04-2006, 05:46 PM
Very hard fight to call considering Marciano always said prime to prime he would lose and Louis is a great fighter most likely though Marciano wouldn't take the fight if he didn't have too

but with Louis is accurate punching it would be tough. Marciano would definitely have his chin tested, because though Marciano is stronger and throws great punches with either hand, Louis is great and combinations.

"Louis is faster with a barrage of punches, but Rocky hurts more with one punch than Joe did with four. Rocky hurts you every time he connects." Response to a reporter from a sparring partner of both Joe Louis and Rocky Marciano.

Joe Louis, knocked out by Rocky in the 8th round, said of Marciano, "It hurt to bump into him....He hits harder than Max Schmeling...this kid is tough enough to beat anyone."
He also said, "The Rock didn't know too much about the boxing book, but it wasn't a book he hit me with. It was a whole library of bone crushers."

Joe himself said several times that he thought in their primes Rocky would have beaten him. In the May, 1990 issue of Boxing Illustrated, Joe Louis was quoted as saying, "very few people knew this, but I had a weakness, a bad weakness. I didn't like to be crowded. And that was Marciano's thing. He always crowded. I knew I could never beat Rocky."

The only way Joe Louis could win is if he stayed on the outside and boxed/ counter punched, unfortuneatley Louis liked to chase fighters and Marciano's strength could prove to be to much for Louis.

so either
Marciano KO10
or
Louis by decision

K-DOGG
05-04-2006, 05:52 PM
Very hard fight to call considering Marciano always said prime to prime he would lose and Louis is a great fighter most likely though Marciano wouldn't take the fight if he didn't have too

but with Louis is accurate punching it would be tough. Marciano would definitely have his chin tested, because though Marciano is stronger and throws great punches with either hand, Louis is great and combinations.

"Louis is faster with a barrage of punches, but Rocky hurts more with one punch than Joe did with four. Rocky hurts you every time he connects." Response to a reporter from a sparring partner of both Joe Louis and Rocky Marciano.

Joe Louis, knocked out by Rocky in the 8th round, said of Marciano, "It hurt to bump into him....He hits harder than Max Schmeling...this kid is tough enough to beat anyone."
He also said, "The Rock didn't know too much about the boxing book, but it wasn't a book he hit me with. It was a whole library of bone crushers."

Joe himself said several times that he thought in their primes Rocky would have beaten him. In the May, 1990 issue of Boxing Illustrated, Joe Louis was quoted as saying, "very few people knew this, but I had a weakness, a bad weakness. I didn't like to be crowded. And that was Marciano's thing. He always crowded. I knew I could never beat Rocky."

The only way Joe Louis could win is if he stayed on the outside and boxed/ counter punched, unfortuneatley Louis liked to chase fighters and Marciano's strength could prove to be to much for Louis.

so either
Marciano KO10
or
Louis by decision

Damn Fine Post!

RockyMarcianofan00
05-04-2006, 05:53 PM
thanks

This message is too short.

Brockton Lip
05-04-2006, 06:12 PM
Great post and I agree. I see the Rock winning by late KO. 2/3 for Rocky to win or possibly 3/3 for Marciano.

Rocky's toughest fights would be against Foreman and Tyson. This fight appears to be bad matchup for Louis. Marciano would get beat up pretty good I imagine but I see him coming out as the victor.

Heckler
05-04-2006, 07:34 PM
Very hard fight to call considering Marciano always said prime to prime he would lose and Louis is a great fighter most likely though Marciano wouldn't take the fight if he didn't have too

but with Louis is accurate punching it would be tough. Marciano would definitely have his chin tested, because though Marciano is stronger and throws great punches with either hand, Louis is great and combinations.

"Louis is faster with a barrage of punches, but Rocky hurts more with one punch than Joe did with four. Rocky hurts you every time he connects." Response to a reporter from a sparring partner of both Joe Louis and Rocky Marciano.

Joe Louis, knocked out by Rocky in the 8th round, said of Marciano, "It hurt to bump into him....He hits harder than Max Schmeling...this kid is tough enough to beat anyone."
He also said, "The Rock didn't know too much about the boxing book, but it wasn't a book he hit me with. It was a whole library of bone crushers."

Joe himself said several times that he thought in their primes Rocky would have beaten him. In the May, 1990 issue of Boxing Illustrated, Joe Louis was quoted as saying, "very few people knew this, but I had a weakness, a bad weakness. I didn't like to be crowded. And that was Marciano's thing. He always crowded. I knew I could never beat Rocky."

The only way Joe Louis could win is if he stayed on the outside and boxed/ counter punched, unfortuneatley Louis liked to chase fighters and Marciano's strength could prove to be to much for Louis.

so either
Marciano KO10
or
Louis by decision

What a boxer says often doesn't equate to the reality of the matter Why? Because fighters such as Joe Louis and Rocky Marciano are very modest men. Louis is possibly the greatest counter puncher of all time and Marciano was a relatively LOOSE fighter, he often opened up and opening up infront of Joe Louis is suicide. Joe Louis would be uncomfortable under pressure and its possible Marciano could knock him out with a right hand, however i would edge towards Louis on this one. Louis by points or TKO. Hard fight either way... Rocky will not simply be able to bludgeon him half to death nor will Louis totally outclass him and leave the ring unscathed.

RockyMarcianofan00
05-04-2006, 07:36 PM
What a boxer says often doesn't equate to the reality of the matter Why? Because fighters such as Joe Louis and Rocky Marciano are very modest men. Louis is possibly the greatest counter puncher of all time and Marciano was a relatively LOOSE fighter, he often opened up and opening up infront of Joe Louis is suicide. Joe Louis would be uncomfortable under pressure and its possible Marciano could knock him out with a right hand, however i would edge towards Louis on this one. Louis by points or TKO.
yea i can't see him Ko'ing Marciano but by no means does that mean he'd lose

SuzieQ49
05-04-2006, 08:05 PM
louis TKO 7 marciano

RockyMarcianofan00
05-04-2006, 08:40 PM
louis TKO 7 marciano
eh i think it would more likely be a decision because TKO idk he'd have to really be getting hurt

and don't say cuts because Marciano only got cut severely in like 4 fights

4 out of 49 thats not that bad (correct my numbers as i know you will if i'm wrong)

THE REAL NINJA
05-04-2006, 08:44 PM
i see it as a tko on cuts for Louis or Louis by UD ...

Heckler
05-05-2006, 02:35 AM
Marciano COULD be really hurt by a guy by Louis, especially if he walks into a Louis right cross... he would always get off the canvas, but he could be hurt... id sway towards cuts or UD anyway.

oldgringo
05-05-2006, 02:44 AM
Louis by decision. He'd have more energy, his punches would be sharper, he was just better overall. It'd be close, and Louis may even be dropped late, but I can't see Rocky taking him out in his prime.

M26
05-05-2006, 05:45 AM
Rocky Marciano would have his chance because of his great power and incredible stamina. It is not impossible that he would catch Joe Louis with one of his wrecking shots late in the fight to end it.

How ever, it's easier for me to envision Louis coming out on top. His skill was nothing short of marvelous, he had power on the highest level, he was fast and he had stamina. If an ageing Joe Walcott could waltz with Marciano for almost 13 rounds, Louis could do the same. He would go to the center of the ring and await Marcianos attack. Because of Marcianos shorter reach and slower hands, he would be countered all night long with accurate, hard punches. This would definitely slow him down some.

I don't think Marciano would be knocked out, but I see a well-prepared, prime Louis winning by comfortable decision or cuts. This is not to say it would be an easy fight for Louis though. Marciano would give him hell all night long with his stamina and hard punches.

Joe Louis by UD.

blockhead
05-05-2006, 09:13 AM
Louis by decision. He'd have more energy, his punches would be sharper, he was just better overall. It'd be close, and Louis may even be dropped late, but I can't see Rocky taking him out in his prime.
i see this fight happening exactly like the gringo stated.

Dempsey 1919
05-05-2006, 12:15 PM
well, louis with the superior reach, speed, and IMO power, i don't see marciano winning this one. since rocky is a swarming hw, it would be hard for him to get through louis' jab. louis also is about 3inch taller and about 20lb. heavier than marciano, so i think it would look more like foreman-frazier.

louis ko 6.

Southpaw Stinger
05-05-2006, 12:45 PM
Louis by TKO 8. Louis has the skills and power to lay some serious hurting on Marciano.

Dempsey 1919
05-05-2006, 12:56 PM
Louis by TKO 8. Louis has the skills and power to lay some serious hurting on Marciano.

yeah, that's the truth.

Jenks88
05-05-2006, 03:22 PM
I think Louis underestimated himself when he said Marciano would beat him because of his style. If I remember correctly, Louis handled Arturo Godoy pretty well, and Godoy was tough swarmer like Marciano (he was an Al Weill fighter too I think). Of course, Godoy isn't as good as Marciano, but I still think Joe could handle Rocky. It wouldn't be an easy fight, but I see Louis winning by KO or TKO is the mid to late rounds...and maybe earlier if he jumped Marciano right at the bell, cause Marciano was a slow starter, and I don't think his chin was as great as everyone says it was.

K-DOGG
05-05-2006, 04:38 PM
First off, thank all of you for your insight into this quandry.

My personal take is I'd have to favour Louis; but do believe, style-wise, Marciano presented a very difficult and dangerous picture. If Louis said he never could handle a crowder...and he did, I rememeber that quote from either old footage or reading it before...not sure; but he did say that...that means he had difficulty and he knew it. Now, also, that being said, Louis was humble as many great champions before Ali were, so I do think he would not only find a way to cope with Rocky; but that he would overcome.

I can't see him stopping Marciano...not by kayo, cuts maybe; but not kayo. If Louis wins this one, it's a points verdict and I can see Marciano droppin him at least once during the bout....he hit hard and Louis was suceptable to being knocked down. If Tony Galento could do it...

The fascinating thing is people underestimate Rocky today for the same reason they underestimated him then: he's damn awkward. But awkward can work to a fighters advantage and did in Rocky's case. Fighters are used to a handful of styles because they see them in the gym or in the ring all the time: the boxer-puncher, counter-puncher, stylist, slugger, swarmer, and a few other well known generic styles that each fighter modifies to make his own.

When a fighter comes along, like Marciano, who presents an extremely customized style, very unique challenges are set for any of their opponents. It's like solving a puzzle that's never been solved vs solving a variation of a puzzle that has. If you've fought a guy with a certain style and beat him, odds are if you fight another guy with a similar style, you'll have an idea as to what to do. However, if you fight a guy with an awkward or uncommon style...you have to figure it out while you're fighting and trying not to get your head knocked off....for your style is NOT Awkward and your opponent has probably seen it before in some variation where you do not have his advantage......if that makes any sense.

My prediction for this fight....Louis by hard fought, brutal UD....and both men will be sore as hell the next day.

Peace.

oldgringo
05-05-2006, 07:56 PM
First off, thank all of you for your insight into this quandry.

My personal take is I'd have to favour Louis; but do believe, style-wise, Marciano presented a very difficult and dangerous picture. If Louis said he never could handle a crowder...and he did, I rememeber that quote from either old footage or reading it before...not sure; but he did say that...that means he had difficulty and he knew it. Now, also, that being said, Louis was humble as many great champions before Ali were, so I do think he would not only find a way to cope with Rocky; but that he would overcome.

I can't see him stopping Marciano...not by kayo, cuts maybe; but not kayo. If Louis wins this one, it's a points verdict and I can see Marciano droppin him at least once during the bout....he hit hard and Louis was suceptable to being knocked down. If Tony Galento could do it...

The fascinating thing is people underestimate Rocky today for the same reason they underestimated him then: he's damn awkward. But awkward can work to a fighters advantage and did in Rocky's case. Fighters are used to a handful of styles because they see them in the gym or in the ring all the time: the boxer-puncher, counter-puncher, stylist, slugger, swarmer, and a few other well known generic styles that each fighter modifies to make his own.

When a fighter comes along, like Marciano, who presents an extremely customized style, very unique challenges are set for any of their opponents. It's like solving a puzzle that's never been solved vs solving a variation of a puzzle that has. If you've fought a guy with a certain style and beat him, odds are if you fight another guy with a similar style, you'll have an idea as to what to do. However, if you fight a guy with an awkward or uncommon style...you have to figure it out while you're fighting and trying not to get your head knocked off....for your style is NOT Awkward and your opponent has probably seen it before in some variation where you do not have his advantage......if that makes any sense.

My prediction for this fight....Louis by hard fought, brutal UD....and both men will be sore as hell the next day.

Peace.


K-Dogg....you take your time on your posts and give reasonable takes pretty much every time i read yoru stuff. Keep up the good posting mayne.

dansweeney
05-05-2006, 07:59 PM
yeah, that's the truth.


acutally is was marciano that knocked out louis in the 8th round. tht isn't speculation that's fact. louis himself said rocky would have beaten him in his prime, how you gonna disagree with the man himself

Dempsey 1919
05-06-2006, 12:18 AM
acutally is was marciano that knocked out louis in the 8th round. tht isn't speculation that's fact. louis himself said rocky would have beaten him in his prime, how you gonna disagree with the man himself

it's called respect. louis would pound marciano into dust. too fast, too accurate. louis is a slugger, and marciano is a swarmer. smarmers cannot win against sluggers, marciano loses.

RockyMarcianofan00
05-06-2006, 12:48 AM
it's called respect. louis would pound marciano into dust. too fast, too accurate. louis is a slugger, and marciano is a swarmer. smarmers cannot win against sluggers, marciano loses.
yea but you forget that Marciano wasn't a true swarmer, he was a slugger that incorporated swarming aspects into his style. The only thing really swarmer about him is he never let up on a fighter. His true style was both Slugger and Swarmer which is what gives him the advantage over so many fighters

Dempsey 1919
05-06-2006, 12:51 AM
yea but you forget that Marciano wasn't a true swarmer, he was a slugger that incorporated swarming aspects into his style. The only thing really swarmer about him is he never let up on a fighter. His true style was both Slugger and Swarmer which is what gives him the advantage over so many fighters

he fought from a croutch just like jack dempsey. he is a swarmer. louis eats up people like that, especially with marciano's height, weight, reach, and skill disadvantage. marciano would be in for a long night.

RockyMarcianofan00
05-06-2006, 01:04 AM
he fought from a croutch just like jack dempsey. he is a swarmer. louis eats up people like that, especially with marciano's height, weight, reach, and skill disadvantage. marciano would be in for a long night.

yea he did but if you saw any of his fights he was only in the crotch when not throwing punches, he was a slugger more so then a swarmer depending on his competition. I think against Louis he'd go toe-to-toe with him and thats how he'd win but only if louis decided to trade with Marciano

Southpaw Stinger
05-06-2006, 08:32 AM
Marciano fought going forwards and from a crouch so technically that makes him a swarmer. But thats understandable when your most often fighting taller guys, you need to get into them to land the punches.

I'd say if Marciano and Louis fought 3 times, I'd say Marciano wins once and Louis twice.

Past m' Prime
05-06-2006, 01:54 PM
This is all semantics, but Lewis had a better jab, the ability to hook off the jab with power, and a very good right. Marciano on the other hand had a powerhouse right. In his prime I don't think Lewis would stand and trade punches with the Rock. He would stay out and box until the openings arrived and score accordingly. Walcott and Moore both had Marciano hurt, but neither had Joes ability to put punches together with deadly accuracy and mix them between the head and body. In his heyday Lewis was down by Galento and Schmelling, neither had Marcianos one shot kayo power, but certainly Galento was as strong as Marciano and fought in a similar style. Pure speculation but I think Lewis would prevail because of his combination ability. Bottom line they were both great fighters and were a credit to the sport.

K-DOGG
05-06-2006, 04:02 PM
K-Dogg....you take your time on your posts and give reasonable takes pretty much every time i read yoru stuff. Keep up the good posting mayne.

Thanks mayne! :D

RockyMarcianofan00
05-06-2006, 10:47 PM
Louis is the best all around fighter ever but I'm not sure how much he'd be able to stand up to Marciano, this fight is very hard to call

hemichromis
05-07-2006, 02:27 AM
louis would probably win but he would take some hard shots first

Heckler
05-07-2006, 04:36 PM
Marciano is without a doubt a swarming fighter.

RockyMarcianofan00
05-07-2006, 04:40 PM
Marciano is without a doubt a swarming fighter.
he swarmed but he wasn't a complete swarmer he was also a slugger

at times he looks like liston with a stance,

he was a swarmer/slugger

Heckler
05-07-2006, 04:45 PM
He was a slugger but also a swarmer... he swarmed into his opponent from a low crouch usually. A 'swarmer' is generally someone that applies relentless pressure.

Southpaw Stinger
05-07-2006, 05:47 PM
A 'swarmer' is generally someone that applies relentless pressure

Which Marciano did a lot of!

SuzieQ49
05-07-2006, 08:08 PM
joe louis stops rocky marciano. i can see a sad worried allie columbo throwing in the towel to save his warrior of a friend from further punishment.

joe louis is the greatest heavyweight of all time. louis was still a good fighter when he fought rocky and it was a quakity win, but i saw louis try to do things on marciano in there fight that he would have done in there prime.

joe louis was the greatest puncher of all time, marciano wont be able to deal with joe louis handspeed and combinations on the inside.


i do think marciano would floor joe louis early in the fight though

Brockton Lip
05-07-2006, 08:57 PM
Anyone have the full fight? I don't have the entire fight.