View Full Version : Rocky Marciano: Read this before smeone makes you look stupid with the facts!


Hous
05-04-2006, 01:47 AM
43 KNOCK OUTS in 49 fights!
88% Knockout ratio

Didnt fight anyone special? Rocky Marciano has one of the most impressive resumes in any divisions history.

-Archie Moore -------------- Recognized as top 5
-"Jersey" Joe Walcott twice - One of the top 10
-Joe Louis ------------------ Recognized as best boxer in history
-Phil Muscato
-Freddie Beshore
-Harry "Kid" Matthews
-Ezzard Charles (Twice)
-Roland LaStanza (Twice) --- One of the top five chins in history

Its not just that he fought legends, he beat them all, mostly by KO.

Rocky Marciano has the highest percentage of KOs than any other Heavyweight boxer in history at 88%. We already came to a conclusion that its more impressive than George Foremans record of his fist 49 fights as Rocky Marciano fought 2X's as many legends and even more iron chins.


-Top 5 greatest chins in boxing history along with, Joe Grim, Jake Lamotta, and i forgot other two.
-Highest knockout percentage than any other heavyweight champion in history - 88% only other person to come close was George Foreman with 87%, then it drops to 60's.
-looks funny on old film, but Louis, and all of the other champions all said the same thing, he is incredibly difficult to hit.
-Louis, Walcott, and George Foreman all placed him as number 2 boxer in the history of the sport.
-The arguement about Marciano beating champs after they are past their prime is absoulte garbage, do you know when he beat Walcott there was a 9 year difference, but when Louis, Walcott, Tyson, Ali won the title they all won it from boxers with more of a age difference? Its all true.
-Marciano was only like 187lbs, much smaller than most heavyweights of the time, but still beat them all, 88% by KO.
-P4P best boxer in human history? Definatley of heavyweight division. Only Louis could beat him, which he failed too do twice.
-He beat the best that ever lived.
-when he was 46 years old he beat Ali in a exhibition fight that was deterrimined by computer, noone can say it was incorrect. He died shortly after.


Rocky Marciano had his own defensive style of boxing, it was sloppy looking, but incredibly successful. It was much harder to land any punch on Marciano as he would duck more throw his body back and jump around than what it would seem. Check out his moves here.

The Greatest Heavyweight Champion EVER!
My rating: 5 out of 5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKZr3wYOFQA
Comments: Rocky Marciano was an Italian-American boxer who is the greatest Heavyweight champion to ever box, he is the only heavyweight champion to have retire UDEFEATED after FOUR YEARS of holding the title. He fought the best and he beat the best. A huge achievement that noone else has equaled. Heres a famous clip of his knockout of Joe Louis, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofpq9ZVBZ98

Still dont believe me? Fine dont take my word, take the word of the Legends that lost to him.

Marciano is a good puncher and he's hard to hit. He has a funny style.

He's a good fighter. Better than most people realize. He's strong and young and hard to hit.

asked where Marciano had improved most between the first and second fights:
In defense. It was harder to get at him... Rocky fools you. He doesn't take as much punishment as it seems. He looks easy to hit inside but he isn't.

Others
He fools you. When you loook at him from outside the ring he seems easy to hit but if you're in the ring with him you find this isn't the case. His head is bobbing and he's crouched low, so low in fact that you can't get a clear shot at him.

He ain't easy to hit as they say. Rocky rolls under punches and he weaves under punches... He protects his belly by blocking punches with his elbows.

Ali said he was surprised at how hard it was to land a hit on Marciano when they had the exhibition, the computer match.
http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Arena/1047//Rocky13.html


Arguement that Marciano only beat people past their prime.
Taking the title from older men:
You would think Marciano was the only champion who recieved his title shot against an older opponent, to hear some critics howl. Let's take a little look at boxing history and see if anyone else beat up an old man to become the champion. Hmmm....

Marciano was 9 years younger than Walcott
But...
Dempsey was 13 years younger than Willard
James J. Jefferies was 12 years younger than Bob Fitzsimmons
Louis was 12 years younger than Braddock
Ali was 10 years younger than Liston
Holmes was 6 years younger than Norton
Spinks was 11 years younger than Ali
Tyson was 14 years younger than Trevor Berbick (WBC Champion)
Tyson was 12 years younger than James "Bonecrusher" Smith (WBA Champion)
Jim Corbett was 8 years younger than John L. Sullivan

So, the average age difference for these championship fights was 11 years. Rocky therefore had less of an age factor advantage than Dempsey, Jefferies, Louis, Ali, Spinks, Tyson, and Corbett.

Non-title fights:
Marciano was 10 years younger than Archie Moore
But wait....
Ali was 19 years younger than Archie Moore!!!
Patterson was 21 years younger than Archie Moore!!!!
Joe Louis was 9 years younger than Max Schmelling. (Max KO'd Joe and was later KO'd by him)
Louis was 12 years younger than Jack Sharkey
Ali was 8 years younger than Henry Cooper
Ali was 7 years younger than Patterson
http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Arena/1047//Rocky13.html

Seems to me these facts speak louder than anything else. Marcianos age difference is actually lower than all of the other legends when they won their titles.

Their was a ten year age difference between Moore and Marciano, significant but not nearly as bad as some of the above, and they are more well known that Marciano.

Check this out, Floyd Patterson was 21 years younger than Archie Moore and Archie KOed him by the fifth round. This happened after Marciano KOed Archie Moore.
Nov 30 Floyd Patterson Chicago KO by 5
http://www.fighttoys.com/Moore%20record.htm

And it took Tyson 12 rounds, in his prime, to win a fight with James Smith by desicion. Tyson was 14 years younger than James Smith
Mar 3 James Smith Las Vegas, NV W 12
http://www.fighttoys.com/Tyson%20record.htm
If you think winning a desicion over James Smith, who the hell is that, with a 14 year age difference is more impressive than KOing a man 10 years older than you that has gone down in history as one of the finest men in boxing you are the most biased person on these boards.


in 1969 Marciano had an exhibition match when at 46 years old with a much younger Muhammad Ali who had was already established himself as the greatest. The 46 year old Marciano beat Ali. You can argue the computer was wrong, we all know computers are unreliable.
http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Arena/1047/alirock.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Arena/1047//alirock.html


Punching power
Joe Louis, knocked out by Rocky in the 8th round, said of Marciano, "It hurt to bump into him....He hits harder than Max Schmeling...this kid is tough enough to beat anyone."
He also said, "The Rock didn't know too much about the boxing book, but it wasn't a book he hit me with. It was a whole library of bone crushers."
Jersey Joe Walcott, who lost his title to Marciano in a 13th round KO and a rematch in a 1st round KO, was asked who hit harder, Joe Louis or Rocky Marciano. "Joe could take you out with combinations...Marciano was a one-punch artist. He threw every punch like you throw a baseball, as hard as he could. I have to say, with all respect to Joe, Marciano hit harder." Ezzard Charles "Rocky numbs you all over. Wherever he hits you, he hurts you; on the arms, the shoulders, the neck and the head." Archie Moore (KO'd in 9th), when asked by reporters which of Marciano's punches hurt him, said, "Man they all hurt."
He also said, "After a fight with Marciano, it felt like you had been beat all over the upper body with a blackjack or hit with rocks."
"He could hurt you, sure, but it was the quantity of his punches. He just had more stamina than anyone else in those days. He was like a bull with gloves." Roland LaStarza "I would throw a hard punch, then he would throw a hard punch. The difference was that Rocky would throw 10 more. He just never stopped throwing punches."

How could a 5'10 185lb man be so powerful? He was simply the most conditioned fighter to ever enter the ring. Noone will argue with you on that one. He was 185lbs but more powerful than most 200+lb punchers. :boxing: :boxing:
http://www.terra.es/personal3/r3198r/rockymarciano.jpg

Hous
05-04-2006, 01:48 AM
Rockys toughness
In their second fight, Ezzard Charles missed an uppercut and hit Marciano with his elbow, splitting his left nostril wide open.
"It's split in half," Goldman graoned in the corner. "How we gonna stop the bleeding?"
"You ain't," Allie Colombo shouted. "There's no way you're going to stop that. Rock, you gotta get him! You gotta get him, or they could stop the fight!"
"Go after him now or you'll bleed to death," Goldman told Marciano.
In a fury, Rocky charged out of his corner, blood flying, and battered Charles to the mat. Ezzard gamely rose at four, but Marciano was relentless, knocking him out with a furious combination of punches.
"It was amazing," New England promoter Sam Silverman said. "The fight couldn't possibly have gone another round without the referee stopping it. They just couldn't stop the bleeding. It had to be an elbow. No punch could make a cut like that. There was Rocky in the middle of a tough fight, but when he had to KO Charles, he did. It was unbelievable."
http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Arena/1047/cut.jpg

http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Arena/1047//tough.html

Tough punchers Marciano fought
Rex Layne, a powerful puncher, who knocked out 25 of his first 36 opponents. 69%
Harry "Kid" Mathews, with 61 KOs in 87 wins. 70%.
Archie Moore, the man who holds the record for the most knock outs of any fighter who ever lived; 145 KOs in 199 wins. 73%.
Walcott, 30 KOs in 50 wins, for 60%.
Joe Louis, 49 KOs in 63 wins, 78%
Eddie Ross 23 KOs in 26 wins at time they fought. 88%
http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Arena/1047//Rocky13.html

As you can see he fought some of the top punchers in boxing history.


How the legends ranked Marciano

1. Joe Louis
2. Rocky Marciano
3. Jack Johnson
4. Muhammad Ali
5. Joe Frazier
6. Jack Dempsey
7. Mike Tyson
8. Sonny Liston
9. Floyd Patterson
10. Evander Holyfield


"Just look at Rocky Marciano's record. Nobody beat him. You can't take that from him. Only because he depended solely on his left hook do I rate Joe Frazier below Marciano. Marciano could hit with both hands."


1. Joe Louis
2. Rocky Marciano
3. Joe Frazier

Joe Louis is the greatest heavyweight champion of all time. Rocky Marciano is second only to Louis. Where do I rate Ali? Somewhere below me. I beat him, and if I could beat him, no doubt Joe Louis and Rocky Marciano could have beat him.


1. Muhammad Ali
2. Joe Louis
3. Rocky Marciano
4. Jack Dempsey
5. Jack Johnson
6. Larry Holmes
7. Sonny Liston
8. Joe Frazier
9. Sam Langford
10. Jersey Joe Walcott

Rocky Marciano's record
1947
Mar 17 -- Lee Epperson, Holyoke, MA -- KO 3

1948
Jul 12 -- Harry Balzerian, Providence, RI -- KO 1
Jul 19 -- John Edwards, Providence, RI -- KO 1
Aug 9 -- Bobby Quinn, Providence, RI -- KO 3
Aug 23 -- Eddie Ross, Providence, RI -- KO 1
Aug 30 -- Jimmy Weeks, Providence, RI -- KO 1
Sep 13 -- Jerry Jackson, Providence, RI -- KO 1
Sep 20 -- Bill Hardeman, Providence, RI -- KO 1
Sep 30 -- Gil Cardione, Washington, DC -- KO 1
Oct 4 -- Bob Jefferson, Providence, RI -- KO 2
Nov 29 -- Patrick Connolly, Providence, RI -- KO 1
Dec 14 -- Gilley Ferron, Philadelphia, PA -- KO 2

1949
Mar 21 -- Johnny Pretzie, Providence, RI -- KO 5
Mar 28 -- Artie Donator, Providence, RI -- KO 1
Apr 11 -- James Walls, Providence, RI -- KO 3
May 2 -- Jimmy Evans, Providence, RI -- KO 3
May 23 -- Don Mogard, Providence, RI -- W 10
Jul 18 -- Harry Haft, Providence, RI -- KO 3
Aug 16 -- Pete Louthis, New Bedford, MA -- KO 3
Sep 26 -- Tommy Giorgio, Providence, RI -- KO 4
Oct 10 -- Ted Lowry, Providence, RI -- W 10
Nov 7 -- Joe Domonic, Providence, RI -- KO 2
Dec 2 -- Pat Richards, New York, NY -- KO 2
Dec 19 -- Phil Muscato, Providence, RI -- KO 5
Dec 30 -- Carmine Vingo, New York, NY -- KO 6

1950
Mar 24 -- Roland LaStarza, New York, NY -- W 10
Jun 5 -- Eldridge Eatman, New York, NY -- KO 3
Jul 10 -- Gino Buonvino, Boston, MA -- KO 10
Sep 18 -- Johnny Shkor, Providence, RI -- KO 6
Nov 13 -- Ted Lowry, Providence, RI -- W 10
Dec 18 -- Bill Wilson, Providence, RI -- KO 1

1951
Jan 29 -- Keene Simmons, Providence, RI -- KO 8
Mar 20 -- Harold Mitchell, Hartford, CT -- KO 2
Mar 26 -- Art Henri, Providence, RI -- KO 9
Apr 30 -- Red Applegate, Providence, RI -- W 10
Jul 12 -- Rex Layne, New York, NY -- KO 6
Aug 27 -- Freddie Beshore, Boston, MA -- KO 4
Oct 26 -- Joe Louis, New York, NY -- KO 8

1952
Feb 13 -- Lee Savold, Philadelphia, PA -- KO 6
Apr 21 -- Gino Buonvino, Providence, RI -- KO 2
May 12 -- Bernie Reynolds, Providence, RI -- KO 3
Jul 28 -- Harry Matthews, New York, NY -- KO 2
Sep 23 -- Jersey Joe Walcott, Philadelphia, PA -- KO 13
(Won World Heavyweight Title)

1953
May 15 -- Jersey Joe Walcott, Chicago, IL -- KO 1
(Retained World Heavyweight Title)
Sep 24 -- Roland LaStarza, New York, NY -- KO 11
(Retained World Heavyweight Title)

1954
Jun 19 -- Ezzard Charles, New York, NY -- W 15
(Retained World Heavyweight Title)
Sep 17 -- Ezzard Charles, New York, NY -- KO 8
(Retained World Heavyweight Title)

1955
May 16 -- Don ****ell, San Francisco, CA -- KO 9
(Retained World Heavyweight Title)
Sep 21 -- Archie Moore, New York, NY -- KO 9
(Retained World Heavyweight Title)

1956
Apr 27 -- Announced Retirement

1970
Jan 20 -- Muhammad Ali -- TKO 8
(movie/computer fight)

I leave you with this,
Just look at Rocky Marciano's record. Nobody beat him. You can't take that from him.
http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Arena/1047/train1.jpg

Verstyle
05-04-2006, 01:54 AM
and u make your post so huge becauuuuuuuuse :confused: :confused:

K-DOGG
05-04-2006, 01:54 AM
Damn, Hous!!! Karma You're Way...that's A Helluva Lot Of Work!!

PS: While I don't agree with Rocky ranking higher than 8th or so, I give him all the respect in the world....and due respect to you for doin' a helluva lot of homework. Props!!

Rockin'
05-04-2006, 01:55 AM
every name fighter that he beat was old and on the down side of the hill. Granted, the other talent in the division was not the deepest pool but it was exceptable. Is he the greatest? In my mind no he is not. Could he be the greatest? Sure, every one has an opinion. Does that make you stupid for having that opinion? No, its a ****ing opinion.............

Rockin' :boxing:

Verstyle
05-04-2006, 01:55 AM
Damn, Hous!!! Karma You're Way...that's A Helluva Lot Of Work!!


it aint work, its called copy and paste, he's had this on another thread :rolleyes:

Yogi
05-04-2006, 01:56 AM
A simple link to a site that most of us have seen before would have been more than sufficient.

Verstyle
05-04-2006, 01:56 AM
every name fighter that he beat was old and on the down side of the hill. Granted, the other talent in the division was not the deepest pool but it was exceptable. Is he the greatest? In my mind no he is not. Could he be the greatest? Sure, every one has an opinion. Does that make you stupid for having that opinion? No, its a ****ing opinion.............

Rockin' :boxing:


exactly what were trying to tell the redarded idiot

Rockin'
05-04-2006, 01:58 AM
exactly what were trying to tell the redarded idiot

Basicaly what you just said. Thanks for saving me the time and effort.

Peace bro,
Rockin' :boxing:

Hous
05-04-2006, 02:00 AM
every name fighter that he beat was old and on the down side of the hill. Granted, the other talent in the division was not the deepest pool but it was exceptable. Is he the greatest? In my mind no he is not. Could he be the greatest? Sure, every one has an opinion. Does that make you stupid for having that opinion? No, its a ****ing opinion.............

Rockin' :boxing:

You obviously haven't learned much, its not a opinion that makes someone stupid its the ignoring the facts. The sole purpose of this is to show facts, thats why there is almost no first person language in the articule. I didnt make this up, if you dont believe Marciano wasn't "THE GREATEST," thats an opinion, i personally dont think he is either. Alot of people come on here spewing bull**** about something they know nothing of. I dont know where you came the conclusion where I said you were stupid if you dont agree, the title is, "Rocky Marciano: Read this before smeone makes you look stupid with the facts!" Not, "Agree with this or your a dumbass."

Get your own facts straight.

Hous
05-04-2006, 02:02 AM
it aint work, its called copy and paste, he's had this on another thread :rolleyes:

You obviously didnt read it there either as you say he never fought a hard puncher... As I said this is facts, not anything to argue over.

K-DOGG
05-04-2006, 02:05 AM
it aint work, its called copy and paste, he's had this on another thread :rolleyes:

Still, I have read Louis, Frazier, and Foreman's comments on Marciano as well as Ali commenting on the power the man had during the taping of their computer fight...of which I've got a copy.

Now, I'm by no way saying I think Marciano could have beaten Ali; but even though they were working out scenario's for the most part and weren't throwing real shots at each other's heads...the picture even a 47 year old Marciano presents is deceptively hard to hit from what I saw...I was surprised, in all honesty at how difficult he appeared to be to hit....and I'd seen tapes of him in his prime and during his reign.

As I stated, I've got Rock right around # 8; but there is validity to the argument that no one ever beat him, therefor there is no blueprint as to how to beat him. All the theorizing in the world doesn't prove squat until you actually get a guy in the ring....and if Rocky was anything, he was a hard working, tough minded S.O.B. and deserved a chance against anybody.

49-0 ain't nothin' to sneeze at.

Verstyle
05-04-2006, 02:05 AM
You obviously haven't learned much, its not a opinion that makes someone stupid its the ignoring the facts. The sole purpose of this is to show facts, thats why there is almost no first person language in the articule. I didnt make this up, if you dont believe Marciano wasn't "THE GREATEST," thats an opinion, i personally dont think he is either. Alot of people come on here spewing bull**** about something they know nothing of. I dont know where you came the conclusion where I said you were stupid if you dont agree, the title is, "Rocky Marciano: Read this before smeone makes you look stupid with the facts!" Not, "Agree with this or your a dumbass."

Get your own facts straight.


and its also a fact that he fought old,past there prime ppl alot. is that a fact or am i wrong :confused: cause if thats a fact, i dont see why the hell u been cryin to me about how its wrong. simple as that, i know u feel stupid now.ahahaha

Hous
05-04-2006, 02:08 AM
exactly what were trying to tell the redarded idiotBasicaly what you just said. Thanks for saving me the time and effort.

Peace bro,
Rockin' :boxing:

Good to know both Rockin1 and mystal2k5 think im an idiot for posting facts, something both of you are clearly unaware of. How childish is that, call me "retarded idiot," before I even voice my opinion. The mentality of some people to ignore what they dont agree with.

Dempsey 1919
05-04-2006, 02:08 AM
and its also a fact that he fought old,past there prime ppl alot. is that a fact or am i wrong :confused: cause if thats a fact, i dont see why the hell u been cryin to me about how its wrong. simple as that, i know u feel stupid now.ahahaha

yeah, and it's funny how he listed the "iron chins" marciano fought and one of them was archie moore, lol!

Verstyle
05-04-2006, 02:10 AM
Good to know both Rockin1 and mystal2k5 think im an idiot for posting facts, something both of you are clearly unaware of. How childish is that, call me "retarded idiot," before I even voice my opinion. The mentality of some people to ignore what they dont agree with.


your an idiot for practically arguing facts about how fought past there prime and older ppl. or did he not fight those ppl HOUS :confused: :confused:

Verstyle
05-04-2006, 02:12 AM
yeah, and it's funny how he listed the "iron chins" marciano fought and one of them was archie moore, lol!


his facts about things r scrambled.and u know there scrambled when he went in the trash can to post a super long as post that has already been posted. thats like a little kid saying"see mom see i told u i told u" :rolleyes:

Hous
05-04-2006, 02:13 AM
and its also a fact that he fought old,past there prime ppl alot. is that a fact or am i wrong :confused: cause if thats a fact, i dont see why the hell u been cryin to me about how its wrong. simple as that, i know u feel stupid now.ahahaha

Read the first two post again, I know you feel stupid because this is the second time we discussed this in two different threads in a half hour. I wont even bother typing it again, Ill just copy paste my other reply, and yours.

being hit by over the hill guys out of there primes and lighter weight ppl doesnt contend to me as having a great chin. unless u get hit by a "REAL" heavyweight then ok.

Marciano was 9 years younger than Walcott
But...
Dempsey was 13 years younger than Willard
James J. Jefferies was 12 years younger than Bob Fitzsimmons
Louis was 12 years younger than Braddock
Ali was 10 years younger than Liston
Holmes was 6 years younger than Norton
Spinks was 11 years younger than Ali
Tyson was 14 years younger than Trevor Berbick (WBC Champion)
Tyson was 12 years younger than James "Bonecrusher" Smith (WBA Champion)
Jim Corbett was 8 years younger than John L. Sullivan

So, the average age difference for these championship fights was 11 years. Rocky therefore had less of an age factor advantage than Dempsey, Jefferies, Louis, Ali, Spinks, Tyson, and Corbett.

Non-title fights:
Marciano was 10 years younger than Archie Moore
But wait....
Ali was 19 years younger than Archie Moore!!!
Patterson was 21 years younger than Archie Moore!!!!
Joe Louis was 9 years younger than Max Schmelling. (Max KO'd Joe and was later KO'd by him)
Louis was 12 years younger than Jack Sharkey
Ali was 8 years younger than Henry Cooper
Ali was 7 years younger than Patterson
http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Arena/1047//Rocky13.html

Your logic is flawed aswell. According to you Ali, Louis, Dempsey, Tyson, Spinks, and Jefferies are also the overrated. You have to know what you are talking about before you post or someone with facts will make you look stupid.

</Thread> :bottle:

If you have any brain cells that have withstained this beating, Id give up.

Verstyle
05-04-2006, 02:16 AM
Read the first two post again, I know you feel stupid because this is the second time we discussed this in two different threads in a half hour. I wont even bother typing it again, Ill just copy paste my other reply, and yours.



If you have any brain cells that have withstained this beating, Id give up.


like io said again moron. what does that have to do with rocky, why do i wanna know other ppl's age's in comparision? i'm stating a fact that he fought past there prime and over the hill guys. and u have yet to say ne thing about this in ne of my post, its like u avoid it

Hous
05-04-2006, 02:22 AM
exactly what were trying to tell the redarded idiot

your the stupid 1 ******* and im going to tell u why u ****in crybaby. your age doesnt matter, it's your prime that matters. tyson was outta him prime at about 25 which is ****in young. alot of fighters get beat by older ppl. its all about the experience and your prime. in boxing age isnt ****, for a nobody like yourself i guess u wouldnt realize that. ;) OWNED and why the **** r u naming all these ppl :confused: we talkin about rocky u stupid ass *****. what does all these ppl's age gotta do with rocky koing old ppl that r outta there prime. that was the worse comparision i've ever witnessed myself

like io said again moron. what does that have to do with rocky, why do i wanna know other ppl's age's in comparision? i'm stating a fact that he fought past there prime and over the hill guys. and u have yet to say ne thing about this in ne of my post, its like u avoid it

The reference to th other fighters is clearly related because they are not considered overrated. Since Marciano is logically they are aswell, if not how do we judge what overrated is? Think about it.

The difference between you and me is I state facts, dont even tell you my opinion, and you resort to name calling. If I wanted to I would report you and you would be banned, but I won't because I already have my gradification of winning something without even voicing my opinion. You pretty much OWNED yourself.

I haven't even told you what my opinion was, its all fact. You wouldn't call someone who said Alis record was W 56 (37 ko's) | L 5 | D 0 | Total 61
http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=000180
would you? Cause thats the same thing I did.

Yogi
05-04-2006, 02:22 AM
This is stupid.

Verstyle
05-04-2006, 02:24 AM
The difference between you and me is I state facts, dont even tell you my opinion, and you resort to name calling. If I wanted to I would report you and you would be banned, but I won't because I already have my gradification of winning something without even voicing my opinion. You pretty much OWNED yourself.

I haven't even told you what my opinion was, its all fact. You wouldn't call someone who said Alis record was W 56 (37 ko's) | L 5 | D 0 | Total 61
http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=000180
would you? Cause thats the same thing I did.


like i said again moron. what does that have to do with rocky, why do i wanna know other ppl's age's in comparision? i'm stating a fact that he fought past there prime and over the hill guys. and u have yet to say ne thing about this in ne of my post, its like u avoid it. i'll jus keep copying and pasting until u answer the question so u can shut the **** up already. you've avoiding the question like barry bonds and steroid questions

Dempsey 1919
05-04-2006, 02:25 AM
like i said again moron. what does that have to do with rocky, why do i wanna know other ppl's age's in comparision? i'm stating a fact that he fought past there prime and over the hill guys. and u have yet to say ne thing about this in ne of my post, its like u avoid it. i'll jus keep copying and pasting until u answer the question so u can shut the **** up already. you've avoiding the question like barry bonds and steroid questions

haha, lol!

Verstyle
05-04-2006, 02:25 AM
The difference between you and me is I state facts, dont even tell you my opinion, and you resort to name calling. If I wanted to I would report you and you would be banned, but I won't because I already have my gradification of winning something without even voicing my opinion. You pretty much OWNED yourself.

I haven't even told you what my opinion was, its all fact. You wouldn't call someone who said Alis record was W 56 (37 ko's) | L 5 | D 0 | Total 61
http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=000180
would you? Cause thats the same thing I did.


ok do it. never been banned before so it wont hurt my feelings. but obviously u got your feelings hurt for even mentioning banned. man your soft :cool: :boxing:

Hous
05-04-2006, 02:29 AM
like i said again moron. what does that have to do with rocky, why do i wanna know other ppl's age's in comparision? i'm stating a fact that he fought past there prime and over the hill guys. and u have yet to say ne thing about this in ne of my post, its like u avoid it. i'll jus keep copying and pasting until u answer the question so u can shut the **** up already. you've avoiding the question like barry bonds and steroid questions
exactly what were trying to tell the redarded idiot

your the stupid 1 ******* and im going to tell u why u ****in crybaby. your age doesnt matter, it's your prime that matters. tyson was outta him prime at about 25 which is ****in young. alot of fighters get beat by older ppl. its all about the experience and your prime. in boxing age isnt ****, for a nobody like yourself i guess u wouldnt realize that. ;) OWNED and why the **** r u naming all these ppl :confused: we talkin about rocky u stupid ass *****. what does all these ppl's age gotta do with rocky koing old ppl that r outta there prime. that was the worse comparision i've ever witnessed myself

like io said again moron. what does that have to do with rocky, why do i wanna know other ppl's age's in comparision? i'm stating a fact that he fought past there prime and over the hill guys. and u have yet to say ne thing about this in ne of my post, its like u avoid it

The reference to th other fighters is clearly related because they are not considered overrated. Since Marciano is logically they are aswell, if not how do we judge what overrated is? Think about it.

The difference between you and me is I state facts, dont even tell you my opinion, and you resort to name calling. If I wanted to I would report you and you would be banned, but I won't because I already have my gradification of winning something without even voicing my opinion. You pretty much OWNED yourself.

I haven't even told you what my opinion was, its all fact. You wouldn't call someone who said Alis record was W 56 (37 ko's) | L 5 | D 0 | Total 61
http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=000180
would you? Cause thats the same thing I did.

I did answer your question, I just added it to my same post. I wasn't expecting you to read it and reply to it in exactly 3 seconds. Im not avoiding any questions.

This thread is getting more traffic than any other in the Boxing History of what I can remember.

Verstyle
05-04-2006, 02:33 AM
I did answer your question, I just added it to my same post. I wasn't expecting you to read it and reply to it in exactly 3 seconds. Im not avoiding any questions.

This thread is getting more traffic than any other in the Boxing History of what I can remember.


and u gettin me mixed up son. i didnt say maricano was overrated i said his chin was. that was like my first post about it. cause i said he was gettin hit my past there prime over age fighters plus lighter fighters then heavyweights alot of the times, like himself

Hous
05-04-2006, 02:39 AM
and u gettin me mixed up son. i didnt say maricano was overrated i said his chin was. that was like my first post about it. cause i said he was gettin hit my past there prime over age fighters plus lighter fighters then heavyweights alot of the times, like himself

I believe you are mixed up as you have made no reference to Marcianos chin in this thread. You realize you are wrong, no shame in that, so you try to make it look like im owning you in something unrealted, shame in that.

Truce?

Verstyle
05-04-2006, 02:43 AM
I believe you are mixed up as you have made no reference to Marcianos chin in this thread. You realize you are wrong, no shame in that, so you try to make it look like im owning you in something unrealted, shame in that.

Truce?


yeah sure. the man to get is butterfly, i think rocky is damn good. now the other thread i was right about. with the chin thing. this thread i jus came in here cause i was bored

Dempsey 1919
05-04-2006, 02:51 AM
yeah sure. the man to get is butterfly, i think rocky is damn good. now the other thread i was right about. with the chin thing. this thread i jus came in here cause i was bored

i think rocky's damn good, too, but he's not indestructable. :rolleyes:

Hous
05-04-2006, 02:55 AM
i think rocky's damn good, too, but he's not indestructable. :rolleyes:

The last man to be called indestructable was Achillis, we all know what happened to him... He was destroyed. No man is indestructable, not even your Ali. :eek:

Dempsey 1919
05-04-2006, 03:11 AM
The last man to be called indestructable was Achillis, we all know what happened to him... He was destroyed. No man is indestructable, not even your Ali. :eek:

well, a bunch of marciano fans think he is.

Rockin'
05-04-2006, 03:19 AM
In my book Kid Achilles smacks you like your a retard when it comes to boxing knowledge.

So what are you trying to say here Hous. Read this before someone makes you look stupid with facts?

You have a bunch of fighters telling what they thought of fighting marciano. What they said I assume were facts documented. But still it was their opinion.

So what is your opinion of the facts that are to make us look stupid? Are they valid, are they construed to make us believe something. I dont know man. Are you foriegn and trying to learn our language or something? You confuse me man.

Rockin' :boxing:

Hous
05-04-2006, 03:36 AM
In my book Kid Achilles smacks you like your a retard when it comes to boxing knowledge.

So what are you trying to say here Hous. Read this before someone makes you look stupid with facts?

You have a bunch of fighters telling what they thought of fighting marciano. What they said I assume were facts documented. But still it was their opinion.

So what is your opinion of the facts that are to make us look stupid? Are they valid, are they construed to make us believe something. I dont know man. Are you foriegn and trying to learn our language or something? You confuse me man.

Rockin' :boxing:
The last man to be called indestructable was Achillis, we all know what happened to him... He was destroyed. No man is indestructable, not even your Ali. :eek:

I was speaking of the Greek Achillis, LOL. You know the warrior who fought at Troy and is mentioned in the Illiad. I respect Kid Achillis, but I wasn't speaking of him. No offense but if thought i was speaking of a BScene poster from that post maybe take a little break from the net?

In the case of the bold, which was hard to interrpret, they are valid because they are facts. You will still have your opinion weather its changed or not and i respect that opinion as long as you aknowledge the facts. I posted this because someone said Marciano never:
1. Fought any Iron chins
2. Never fought anyone who was a hard puncher
and three
3. He only fought old men, which is grossly stretched and all the greats are guilty of it on the same degree, as stated in the facts.

I think that answers your question? I find it very ironic how you say im hard to understand, or i, "confuse you," in that paragraph. Im not going to bash you over it but just read it again and have a good laugh. Its all good bro, just aknowledge, Mysical aknowledges now and were good, doesn't matter we have different opinions.

Rockin'
05-04-2006, 03:46 AM
My apologies for the Kid Achilles staement. I never cared for history to know that character.

But still on the note of facts, do you take everything that you read in your history books as facts?

Rockin' :boxing:

Hous
05-04-2006, 03:59 AM
My apologies for the Kid Achilles staement. I never cared for history to know that character.

But still on the note of facts, do you take everything that you read in your history books as facts?

Rockin' :boxing:

Doesn't matter if its true or not, it got the point across didn't it? I mean after you latter learned who Achillis was.

Achillis isn't metioned in a history book hes mentioned in Homers poem the Illiad. As far as I know there is no known proof of his existence, but then again there is none of Jesus outside of a sacred book. But the majority of us still believe it don't we?

While discussing history, its said history is written by the victors and thats true, if the Axis powers won World War II there would be alot of changes, perhaps we wouldn't know about the crimes to humanity or even possibley learn of hidden Ally crimes.

Then again reading History books is the next best way to learn of the past next to asking someone whos experienced it first hand. Are you willing to deny this?

Even if Achillis is fictional it is a perfect metaphor that everyone will pick up on. Achillis probley existed but was turned into a God of a man through stories.

Brockton Lip
05-04-2006, 08:45 AM
Hous KO1 Marciano haters.

Yaman
05-04-2006, 10:00 AM
well, a bunch of marciano fans think he is.

WHo are they? Ya damn moron. Tell me wich Marciano fans on this board say those things?

Exige Jr
05-04-2006, 10:48 AM
Marshmellows saw the downfall of Rocky... :nonono:

King Koyle
05-04-2006, 11:33 AM
Very well said!Only whitey haters don't give Rocky his due respect.

Dempsey 1919
05-04-2006, 02:29 PM
WHo are they? Ya damn moron. Tell me wich Marciano fans on this board say those things?

i'm a moron. no, you and other tyson fanboys are morons when you say that that ear biting piece of **** could beat the likes of ali, liston, or foreman.

and like for example in the foreman vs. marciano thread, rocky'fan kept saying that marciano hits harder than foreman, and we all were trying to convince the misguided fool that his power wasn't in the league of foreman, but he still insisted that marciano was the hardest hitter of all time, even though middleweights like ezzard charles and archie moore were able to stand toe to toe with marciano and slug it out for a number of rounds before being ko'd, and both charles and moore have p4p some of the weakest chins in boxing history.

Brockton Lip
05-04-2006, 02:38 PM
i'm a moron. no, you and other tyson fanboys are morons when you say that that ear biting piece of **** could beat the likes of ali, liston, or foreman.

and like for example in the foreman vs. marciano thread, rocky'fan kept saying that marciano hits harder than foreman, and we all were trying to convince the misguided fool that his power wasn't in the league of foreman, but he still insisted that marciano was the hardest hitter of all time

I still wouldn't count him out. They punch differently which makes it difficult to tell. Foreman's punches are pushes/pounds that throw people around and knock them down. Marciano's punches are more explosive and break bones and cause blood clots, etc.

Verstyle
05-04-2006, 02:40 PM
i'm a moron. no, you and other tyson fanboys are morons when you say that that ear biting piece of **** could beat the likes of ali, liston, or foreman.

and like for example in the foreman vs. marciano thread, rocky'fan kept saying that marciano hits harder than foreman, and we all were trying to convince the misguided fool that his power wasn't in the league of foreman, but he still insisted that marciano was the hardest hitter of all time, even though middleweights like ezzard charles and archie moore were able to stand toe to toe with marciano and slug it out for a number of rounds before being ko'd, and both charles and moore have p4p some of the weakest chins in boxing history.


now u got me into it. damn u get yourself in more trouble whereever u go. i think tyson could take liston and foreman, but a prime ali hmmmmmm yeah cause his chin sucked but a 70s ali i say its 50/50

Hous
05-04-2006, 02:45 PM
i'm a moron. no, you and other tyson fanboys are morons when you say that that ear biting piece of **** could beat the likes of ali, liston, or foreman.

and like for example in the foreman vs. marciano thread, rocky'fan kept saying that marciano hits harder than foreman, and we all were trying to convince the misguided fool that his power wasn't in the league of foreman, but he still insisted that marciano was the hardest hitter of all time, even though middleweights like ezzard charles and archie moore were able to stand toe to toe with marciano and slug it out for a number of rounds before being ko'd, and both charles and moore have p4p some of the weakest chins in boxing history.

Noone thinks Marciano hits harder than Foreman :rolleyes:

If Moore and Charles were middleweight when they fought Marciano, then Marciano was aswell. Moore weighed the same exact weight as Marciano and Charles weighed 2 pounds less the first fight. The second time Marciano KOed Charles he weighed more than Marciano by over 5 pounds. Charles had the build to weigh more than Marciano as he was taller aswell. Once again facts speak louder than bull****.

188 Archie Moore 188
187 Ezzard Charles 185
187 Ezzard Charles 192

Its also notable that walcott weighed 12-13 pounds more both fights and Louis weighed 19 and 3/4 more.
184 Jersey Joe Walcott 197
184 Jersey Joe Walcott 196
184 Joe Louis 213

http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=009032

In all honesty you should stop trying to take this away from Marciano, he earned it. :rolleyes:

Yaman
05-04-2006, 03:04 PM
i'm a moron. no, you and other tyson fanboys are morons when you say that that ear biting piece of **** could beat the likes of ali, liston, or foreman.

and like for example in the foreman vs. marciano thread, rocky'fan kept saying that marciano hits harder than foreman, and we all were trying to convince the misguided fool that his power wasn't in the league of foreman, but he still insisted that marciano was the hardest hitter of all time, even though middleweights like ezzard charles and archie moore were able to stand toe to toe with marciano and slug it out for a number of rounds before being ko'd, and both charles and moore have p4p some of the weakest chins in boxing history.

OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!! THAT IS HORRIBLE INDEED, JUST BECAUSE PEOPLE GIVE THEIR OPINION RIGHT?

You're still a moron. As far as i know, i have never seen anyone on this forum put Marciano at #1. And i havent seen anyone say Marciano was unbeatable(Unlike ali) and it goes on and on.

There you go dickhead.

Dempsey 1919
05-04-2006, 04:15 PM
OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!! THAT IS HORRIBLE INDEED, JUST BECAUSE PEOPLE GIVE THEIR OPINION RIGHT?

You're still a moron. As far as i know, i have never seen anyone on this forum put Marciano at #1. And i havent seen anyone say Marciano was unbeatable(Unlike ali) and it goes on and on.

There you go dickhead.

just because you've never seen it, doesn't mean it didn't happen, cause i'm tellign you i've seen it and i'm sick of it. you should stfu before calling someone a moron. if you anything about boxing or if you know anything about sprots in general, then you will realize that rocky marciano, larry bird, and babe ruth are the three most overrated athletes in sports history, and the reason why they are hailed as gods are because they are white and white racist needs to pull them out of theiir ass, cause thir feelings are hurt when they hear that muhammad ali, michael jordan, and willy mays are better.

Yogi
05-04-2006, 04:19 PM
You're both morons.

RockyMarcianofan00
05-04-2006, 04:21 PM
just because you've never seen it, doesn't mean it didn't happen, cause i'm tellign you i've seen it and i'm sick of it. you should stfu before calling someone a moron. if you anything about boxing or if you know anything about sprots in general, then you will realize that rocky marciano, larry bird, and babe ruth are the three most overrated athletes in sports history, and the reason why they are hailed as gods are because they are white and white racist needs to pull them out of theiir ass, cause thir feelings are hurt when they hear that muhammad ali, michael jordan, and willy mays are better.
ok i never said Marciano was unbeatable and i'm one of his biggest fans (on this forum)

alright

and no way is babe ruth overrated, Don't talk about Babe Ruth that guys a legend, willie mays was good and i give him alot of credit because he wasn't ****y or a show off, he was modest. Babe Ruth and Wille Mays were legends. Don't try and take anything away from either of them

Yaman
05-04-2006, 04:23 PM
just because you've never seen it, doesn't mean it didn't happen, cause i'm tellign you i've seen it and i'm sick of it. you should stfu before calling someone a moron. if you anything about boxing or if you know anything about sprots in general, then you will realize that rocky marciano, larry bird, and babe ruth are the three most overrated athletes in sports history, and the reason why they are hailed as gods are because they are white and white racist needs to pull them out of theiir ass, cause thir feelings are hurt when they hear that muhammad ali, michael jordan, and willy mays are better.

Yeah right idiot. You do know im not taking you serious right? You're on the same level as thommyhearns the all time biggest moron of the forum.

Yogi
05-04-2006, 04:24 PM
Ted Williams > All

Yaman
05-04-2006, 04:28 PM
You're a moron Yogi.

Dempsey 1919
05-04-2006, 04:28 PM
ok i never said Marciano was unbeatable and i'm one of his biggest fans (on this forum)

alright

and no way is babe ruth overrated, Don't talk about Babe Ruth that guys a legend, willie mays was good and i give him alot of credit because he wasn't ****y or a show off, he was modest. Babe Ruth and Wille Mays were legends. Don't try and take anything away from either of them

babe ruth is overrated. he played at a time where the pitchers weren't as skilled as today. he was a lard ass. he wasn't an athlete period. he just hit home runs basically given to him by pitchers who weren't that good. ruth couldn't field, he couldn't steal bases, or anything. mays was light years better than ruth in everyway. ruth only hit all those home runs cause he played at yankee stadium. if mays played in yankee stadium and not at the polo grounds, then he would have alot more home runs than ruth, and this is a fact! yankee stadium was shorter than any stadium, and you didn't have to hit the ball that far in order to get a home run. ruth is an overated fat piece of ****, just like bird is an overrated slow, clumsy neanderthal, and just like marciano was a slow, unskilled cruiserweight, who never beat any hof hw's in their primes.

RockyMarcianofan00
05-04-2006, 04:28 PM
in response to the discrediting of Marciano's oppoents due to age i post this:
http://www.********boxing.com/news.php?p=4488&more=1
where there are stars put e a s t s i d e (no spaces)

i've showed this link if you've read it and don't agree with it your an idiot


o and


Mike Tyson > Sonny Liston

Mike Tyson would beat liston in 4

Yogi
05-04-2006, 04:29 PM
You're a moron Yogi.

Well yeah, of course I am.

RockyMarcianofan00
05-04-2006, 04:32 PM
babe ruth is overrated. he played at a time where the pitchers weren't as skilled as today. he was a lard ass. he wasn't an athlete period. he just hit home runs basically given to him by pitchers who weren't that good. ruth couldn't field, he couldn't steal bases, or anything. mays was light years better than ruth in everyway. ruth only hit all those home runs cause he played at yankee stadium. if mays played in yankee stadium and not at the polo grounds, then he would have alot more home runs than ruth, and this is a fact! yankee stadium was shorter than any stadium, and you didn't have to hit the ball that far in order to get a home run. ruth is an overated fat piece of ****, just like bird is an overrated slow, clumsy neanderthal, and just like marciano was a slow, unskilled cruiserweight, who never beat any hof hw's in their primes.

you do realize that Babe Ruth was a pitcher who switched do hitter-- and why would you try to demeen such a great player you honestly you are pretty racist, you never like any white ppl, ok so you say you like Jack Dempsey but when it comes down to it your ready to pic alot of black fighters over dempsey. I'm tired of arguing though because if i havent' gotten your thick head to accpet anything yet that it just isn't going to happen

two people you over rate more then anything are Sonny Liston and Jack Johnson so don't talk to me about overrating

Dempsey 1919
05-04-2006, 04:33 PM
Ted Williams > All

yeah, even ted williams was better than ruth. he was an all rounder. the thing i don't get is when whites put some one on a pedestal they usually pick the wrong person. there were alot of white baseball players who were way better than ruth, people like williams, cobb, mcguire, etc. and dempsey was lightyears better than marciano, even a guy like tunney could beat marciano. and people like jerry west would hand bird his ass giftwrapped, even pistol pete would make larry look like a fool.

Yaman
05-04-2006, 04:33 PM
babe ruth is overrated. he played at a time where the pitchers weren't as skilled as today. he was a lard ass. he wasn't an athlete period. he just hit home runs basically given to him by pitchers who weren't that good. ruth couldn't field, he couldn't steal bases, or anything. mays was light years better than ruth in everyway. ruth only hit all those home runs cause he played at yankee stadium. if mays played in yankee stadium and not at the polo grounds, then he would have alot more home runs than ruth, and this is a fact! yankee stadium was shorter than any stadium, and you didn't have to hit the ball that far in order to get a home run. ruth is an overated fat piece of ****, just like bird is an overrated slow, clumsy neanderthal, and just like marciano was a slow, unskilled cruiserweight, who never beat any hof hw's in their primes.

This piece of **** calls every white athlete overrated. You really should be banned.

RockyMarcianofan00
05-04-2006, 04:34 PM
Mikey Mantle > All

Verstyle
05-04-2006, 04:58 PM
i come back to the thread and ya'll talkin bout baseball. the power of boxingscene forums :rolleyes:

Hous
05-04-2006, 05:04 PM
babe ruth is overrated. he played at a time where the pitchers weren't as skilled as today. he was a lard ass. he wasn't an athlete period. he just hit home runs basically given to him by pitchers who weren't that good. ruth couldn't field, he couldn't steal bases, or anything. mays was light years better than ruth in everyway. ruth only hit all those home runs cause he played at yankee stadium. if mays played in yankee stadium and not at the polo grounds, then he would have alot more home runs than ruth, and this is a fact! yankee stadium was shorter than any stadium, and you didn't have to hit the ball that far in order to get a home run. ruth is an overated fat piece of ****, just like bird is an overrated slow, clumsy neanderthal, and just like marciano was a slow, unskilled cruiserweight, who never beat any hof hw's in their primes.

Your truely disgusting.

Yogi
05-04-2006, 05:04 PM
This piece of **** calls every white athlete overrated. You really should be banned.

Did he just say that Yankee Stadium had a shorter porch than the Polo Grounds?

Ok now...

Polo Grounds down the lines during Mays' days there; 279' LF line, 258' RF line.

Yankee Stadium down the lines during Ruth's days there; 280 LF line, 295 RF line.

Going by the measurements it seems that the fences Mays was hitting them over was a shorter distance away in comparision to what Ruth was offered...and Butterfly certainly can't use the CF distance of Polo Grounds as an argument, because the Yankee Stadium that Ruth played in was even further out than was the infamous Polo Grounds center field...487' to 480'.

RockyMarcianofan00
05-04-2006, 05:06 PM
Did he just say that Yankee Stadium had a shorter porch than the Polo Grounds?

Ok now...

Polo Grounds down the lines during Mays' days there; 279' LF line, 258' RF line.

Yankee Stadium down the lines during Ruth's days there; 280 LF line, 295 RF line.

Going by the measurements it seems that the fences Mays was hitting them over was a shorter distance away in comparision to what Ruth was offered...and Butterfly certainly can't use the CF distance of Polo Grounds as an argument, because the Yankee Stadium that Ruth played in was even further out than was the infamous Polo Grounds center field...487' to 480'.
HA HA HA

Babe Ruth was a great

Hank Aaron "The Hammer" is one of the greatest baseball players ever and he was respectable and modest

Yogi
05-04-2006, 05:06 PM
Babe Ruth was of mixed race (white, indian, and yes, they say he even some black in him), so it would be pretty hard to call someone a racist if they're criticizing him.

Brockton Lip
05-04-2006, 05:08 PM
Anyone that says a player is way better than Babe Ruth is a moron.
And on another note Willie Pep = Amazing.

RockyMarcianofan00
05-04-2006, 05:15 PM
Anyone that says a player is way better than Babe Ruth is a moron.
And on another note Willie Pep = Amazing.
100% True

Willie Pep is P4P the greatest fighter ever

and Babe Ruth is also great

Hous
05-04-2006, 05:18 PM
Up and coming prospect Carmine Vingo (6ft 4, 220lbs), a heavy hitting slugger who was involved in a Dempsey-Firpo type match up with Rocky. Was knocked out in the sixth round and sent into a coma, which left him paralysed on one side of his body and unable to continue his boxing career.

Roland LaStarza, an acomplished mover-boxer that was beating anyone and everyone, Rocky beat him twice - the first a controversial decision, the second left LaStarza in hospital with a broken arm, several blood clots and requiring surgery.

Veteran contender Lee Savold, someone who had fought Joe Louis amongst other big name heavyweights of the time. Savold's management threw in the towel before round six ended, Savold having been bashed so badly he was unable to throw punches back.

Top contender Rex Layne. Layne was a favourite over Marciano, a heavy punching slugger who reminded people of the great Jack Dempsey, who had great success in the ring, including a victory over Jersey Joe Walcott. His record going into the Marciano fight was 34-1-2 with 24 knockouts. Marciano knocked him out in six rounds, breaking his jaw and knocking out a tooth.
http://www.********boxing.com/news.php?p=4488&more=1
E A S T S I D E = ******** but without spaces, why does BoxingScene moderate that?

Thanks for the link RockyMarcianofan00, I never knew this stuff.

LOL @ Yankee stadium ownage!

RockyMarcianofan00
05-04-2006, 05:26 PM
yea i learn alot with all the links i collect over time

King Koyle
05-04-2006, 05:39 PM
No one is going to get through to this kid.We should just give it up.Anyone who questions the greatness of Rocky,Bird,or Babe Ruth is a moron.Black or white,most people would agree with that.
You guys are stating facts and giving him stats,he is just spewing racist nonsense that even he can't really beleive.Im done with this kid.It's like arguing with a racist pre-schooler.

K-DOGG
05-04-2006, 05:47 PM
Butterfly's not racist...he's just...urm..."uneducated". He just has to put more time into studying and researching and removing any pre-conceived bias from his observations....and that includes being influenced by "extremists" from the other side of the coin from his own.


Nuthin' but love. :D

Yaman
05-04-2006, 05:54 PM
Butterfly's not racist...he's just...urm..."uneducated". He just has to put more time into studying and researching and removing any pre-conceived bias from his observations....and that includes being influenced by "extremists" from the other side of the coin from his own.


Nuthin' but love. :D

Actually, he's a racist dickhead.

K-DOGG
05-04-2006, 05:55 PM
Actually, he's a racist dickhead.

Nope. Not from what I've read....dick.

K-DOGG
05-04-2006, 06:02 PM
There are out and out racists who's motivations are apparent by what they say and do and how they react.

Then, there are those who are biased based on preconceived notions usually revolving around race and stereotyping...usually from outside influences either along those lines or from the other side of the equation which causes the person to push back with equally flawed logic of his own.

Butterfly, from what I've read of his posts, falls into the second category.

We are all prejudiced to one degree or another. Anyone who says otherwise is ignorant.

Southpaw Stinger
05-05-2006, 02:08 PM
Anyone who says otherwise is ignorant.

And prejudiced!

Dempsey 1919
05-05-2006, 02:13 PM
There are out and out racists who's motivations are apparent by what they say and do and how they react.

Then, there are those who are biased based on preconceived notions usually revolving around race and stereotyping...usually from outside influences either along those lines or from the other side of the equation which causes the person to push back with equally flawed logic of his own.

Butterfly, from what I've read of his posts, falls into the second category.

We are all prejudiced to one degree or another. Anyone who says otherwise is ignorant.

i just don't think marciano was as good as people say. i watch him fight and he seems crude to me. i don't think he would be able to fight like that and beat people like ali, liston, foreman, tyson, holmes, louis, lewis, holyfield, or even a guy like jack johnson.

Southpaw Stinger
05-05-2006, 02:15 PM
ali, liston, foreman, tyson, holmes, louis, lewis, I pretty much agree with this..

or even a guy like jack johnson.

But Marciano would kill Johnson.

Dempsey 1919
05-05-2006, 02:17 PM
I pretty much agree with this..



But Marciano would kill Johnson.

marciano is too slow for johnson.

Southpaw Stinger
05-05-2006, 02:32 PM
marciano is too slow for johnson.

They said he was too slow for anyone!

Dempsey 1919
05-05-2006, 02:34 PM
They said he was too slow for anyone!

yeah, but johnson is really hard to hit. his defense is almost as good as joe louis'!

SuzieQ49
05-05-2006, 02:47 PM
i just don't think marciano was as good as people say. i watch him fight and he seems crude to me. i don't think he would be able to fight like that and beat people like ali, liston, foreman, tyson, holmes, louis, lewis, holyfield, or even a guy like jack johnson.



marciano was incredibly effective with his own unique style. he was so ackward it worked to his advantage

Dempsey 1919
05-05-2006, 02:52 PM
marciano was incredibly effective with his own unique style. he was so ackward it worked to his advantage

well then, it wouldn't work against ali cause he was awkward, too.

Kid Achilles
05-05-2006, 02:57 PM
Joe Louis did not have an awesome defense. He wasn't hit all that much in his prime because he had what were probably the greatest offensive skills of any heavyweight. He was not as slick as Johnson, Charles or Joe Walcott. Have you even seen Louis fight? He was a stalker with very good reflexes but his defense is not what sticks out as his most outstanding characteristic. He was skilled defensively, he could parry shots and had good head movement, true, but he was not even close to one of the best defensive boxers of all time.

What made Louis great was his picture perfect execution of all of his punches, his handspeed, and brutal and very accurate punching power. If you had an opening in your defense, he would find it.

Butterfly you keep talking about Joe Louis's defense but have you ever seen the guy fight?

hemichromis
05-05-2006, 02:58 PM
i agree that rocky was better than alot of people give him credit for but i dont think he is as goodas you think

joe louis was way past his prime when he fought marciano and i cant see anyof the others mentioned being in the top 20 or 30 boxers of all time

Kid Achilles
05-05-2006, 03:01 PM
You can't see Ezzard Charles being a top 20 boxer? You are a fool. He's top ten P4P material, and certainly a top 20 heavyweight.

Yaman
05-05-2006, 03:01 PM
People just dont know..

Dempsey 1919
05-05-2006, 03:03 PM
Joe Louis did not have an awesome defense. He wasn't hit all that much in his prime because he had what were probably the greatest offensive skills of any heavyweight. He was not as slick as Johnson, Charles or Joe Walcott. Have you even seen Louis fight? He was a stalker with very good reflexes but his defense is not what sticks out as his most outstanding characteristic. He was skilled defensively, he could parry shots and had good head movement, true, but he was not even close to one of the best defensive boxers of all time.

What made Louis great was his picture perfect execution of all of his punches, his handspeed, and brutal and very accurate punching power. If you had an opening in your defense, he would find it.

Butterfly you keep talking about Joe Louis's defense but have you ever seen the guy fight?

kid achilles, i wouldn't be talking about joe louis if i've never seen him fight. :rolleyes: i have like ten of his fights and i've seen about twenty. it's mostly his stance that makes his defense so special. the way he would position his hands made it pretty easy for him to deflect shots coming his way, and it was hard to land some hard shots on louis like that.

K-DOGG
05-05-2006, 03:22 PM
Yaman...it just occurred to me after re-reading your post that you were Not calling ME the dickhead. I thought you were calling me a dickhead because I disagreed with your synopsis that Butterfly was a racist. My bad. :o

Apologies mate. I misunderstood you and returned the misconceived comment. I do sincerely apologize.

SABBATH
05-05-2006, 03:45 PM
kid achilles, i wouldn't be talking about joe louis if i've never seen him fight. :rolleyes: i have like ten of his fights and i've seen about twenty. it's mostly his stance that makes his defense so special. the way he would position his hands made it pretty easy for him to deflect shots coming his way, and it was hard to land some hard shots on louis like that.
Louis was decked and staggered enough to make me question just how great his defence was. If he had such a great defence and was that hard to hit yet was decked that many times he must have one hell of a weak chin, a theory which I don't subscribe to. Louis was in enough fights where he was hit enough to question whether his defence was awesome or just good and technically sound.

Now Jack Johnson raises a different argument. Before telling me what a great defence he had re-watch his fights and focus on the opponents who were throwing the punches at him that he was able to avoid. I don't see alot of his opponents double jabbing, mixing their attack, throwing 2 & 3 punch combinations or even feinting. I do see his opponents often carrying their hands down by their waists and throwing one punch at a time. Jim Jeffries had some semblance of a style fighting out of a crouch with his chin tucked behind the shoulder but even his left hand is kept low. I won't however judge Jeffries merit on that fight as we all know the circumstances of him coming out of retirement for that fight.

Referees of that era allowed the fighters to clinch then hold and hit which Johnson was an expert at, especially with the right uppercut. Johnson's defence was based alot on his catching punches with open gloves then holding his opponents upper arms in the clinches. I don't see alot of slipping and rolling with punches although in the Willard fight he does duck under alot of head shots particularly when Willard had him against the ropes.

Dempsey 1919
05-05-2006, 03:53 PM
Now Jack Johnson raises a different argument. Before telling me what a great defence he had re-watch his fights and focus on the opponents who were throwing the punches at him that he was able to avoid. I don't see alot of his opponents double jabbing, mixing their attack, throwing 2 & 3 punch combinations or even feinting.

exactly. johnson's opponents weren't as skilled as louis' opponents, so based on that, i'd say louis had the better defense.

Kid Achilles
05-05-2006, 03:58 PM
That's a ****ty argument and just so full of wild assumption and conjecture that it can be thrown out immediately. Johnson proved himself to be extremely hard to hit clean in his prime. Yeah he was nailed with some good shots by such sharpshooters as Joe Choysnki, and he didn't have the best chin, but he was so adept at picking off shots with his gloves and controlling the clinches. When you make a career out of sitting back, flat footed, and letting the opponent pretty much fight you as aggresively as they can, you better have amazing reflexes, balance, and defensive skill. Johnson had all of these things.

Dempsey 1919
05-05-2006, 07:45 PM
That's a ****ty argument and just so full of wild assumption and conjecture that it can be thrown out immediately. Johnson proved himself to be extremely hard to hit clean in his prime. Yeah he was nailed with some good shots by such sharpshooters as Joe Choysnki, and he didn't have the best chin, but he was so adept at picking off shots with his gloves and controlling the clinches. When you make a career out of sitting back, flat footed, and letting the opponent pretty much fight you as aggresively as they can, you better have amazing reflexes, balance, and defensive skill. Johnson had all of these things.

i'm not doubting johnson's skill, it's just that i think louis had to go against better more skilled fighters, so i would be inclined to give louis more credit.

SABBATH
05-06-2006, 12:01 AM
Yeah he was nailed with some good shots by such sharpshooters as Joe Choysnki, and he didn't have the best chin, but he was so adept at picking off shots with his gloves and controlling the clinches. When you make a career out of sitting back, flat footed, and letting the opponent pretty much fight you as aggresively as they can, you better have amazing reflexes, balance, and defensive skill. Johnson had all of these things.Again, you have to consider whose shots he was picking off. I've seen his fights with Burns, Ketchel, Jeffries, Flynn, Moran and Willard. Now with all due respect to these fighters of yesteryear, I see very little in their styles and apparent abilities that would require great defensive mastery to avoid their punches. Flynn and Burns in particular look inept while Jeffries shows only a hint of what he may have been in his prime. I fail to see any of Johnson's opponents feint, jab, throw combinations, mix their attack or present angles. To these eyes they attack straight on at a measured pace and more often are content to clinch and wrestle after throwing a couple of shots.

Against these fighters Johnson did demonstrate an ability to avoid getting hit clean punches but seriously, can you see Louis, Ali, Holyfield, Holmes, Walcott, Charles etc...having difficulty avoiding the punches of Johnson's title fight opponents?

Southpaw Stinger
05-06-2006, 09:44 AM
Again, you have to consider whose shots he was picking off. I've seen his fights with Burns, Ketchel, Jeffries, Flynn, Moran and Willard. Now with all due respect to these fighters of yesteryear, I see very little in their styles and apparent abilities that would require great defensive mastery to avoid their punches. Flynn and Burns in particular look inept while Jeffries shows only a hint of what he may have been in his prime. I fail to see any of Johnson's opponents feint, jab, throw combinations, mix their attack or present angles. To these eyes they attack straight on at a measured pace and more often are content to clinch and wrestle after throwing a couple of shots.

Against these fighters Johnson did demonstrate an ability to avoid getting hit clean punches but seriously, can you see Louis, Ali, Holyfield, Holmes, Walcott, Charles etc...having difficulty avoiding the punches of Johnson's title fight opponents?

Exactly my point. Johnson was good for his time but the sport evolved a lot. Johnson is extremely overated by many and I wouldn't favour him against the likes of Marciano who would LAND a lot of hard shots and hurt Johnson.

hemichromis
05-06-2006, 03:53 PM
You can't see Ezzard Charles being a top 20 boxer? You are a fool. He's top ten P4P material, and certainly a top 20 heavyweight.
well he most certainly wouldn't be in my top 20

Dempsey 1919
05-06-2006, 04:50 PM
well he most certainly wouldn't be in my top 20

i think charles is a lock for top 20. he was a good boxer.

rocco1252
06-02-2006, 05:43 PM
i'm a moron. no, you and other tyson fanboys are morons when you say that that ear biting piece of **** could beat the likes of ali, liston, or foreman.

and like for example in the foreman vs. marciano thread, rocky'fan kept saying that marciano hits harder than foreman, and we all were trying to convince the misguided fool that his power wasn't in the league of foreman, but he still insisted that marciano was the hardest hitter of all time, even though middleweights like ezzard charles and archie moore were able to stand toe to toe with marciano and slug it out for a number of rounds before being ko'd, and both charles and moore have p4p some of the weakest chins in boxing history.
BUT YET YOU PUT TYSON IN YOUR TOP 5 HEAVY'S OF ALL TIME?!

RockyMarcianofan00
06-02-2006, 05:50 PM
i'm a moron. no, you and other tyson fanboys are morons when you say that that ear biting piece of **** could beat the likes of ali, liston, or foreman.

and like for example in the foreman vs. marciano thread, rocky'fan kept saying that marciano hits harder than foreman, and we all were trying to convince the misguided fool that his power wasn't in the league of foreman, but he still insisted that marciano was the hardest hitter of all time, even though middleweights like ezzard charles and archie moore were able to stand toe to toe with marciano and slug it out for a number of rounds before being ko'd, and both charles and moore have p4p some of the weakest chins in boxing history.
i honestly don't remember that but ok it was so long ago that i wouldn't remember. What i do remember saying is that Marciano could beat foreman if he made it past round 5, which is possible.

No middleweight ever went toe-to-toe with Marciano, not Charles nor Moore, did you see any of those fights?
Charles out boxed Marciano but in the end Marciano was doing good enough to get a UD and in the second fight Marciano KO'd Charles.

Moore was basically sticking and moving but after the 4th round Moore was going down hill. Only reason moore lasted as long as he did was because Marciano's training was lacking in his latter days

RockyMarcianofan00
06-02-2006, 05:52 PM
i think charles is a lock for top 20. he was a good boxer.
I agree P4P Charles is up there in the top10, overall heavyweights he should be in the top20.

Bert Sugar had him at nine i think in his top10 but just added that.

I think Charles could easily slide in at 15.

RockyMarcianofan00
06-02-2006, 05:59 PM
Exactly my point. Johnson was good for his time but the sport evolved a lot. Johnson is extremely overated by many and I wouldn't favour him against the likes of Marciano who would LAND a lot of hard shots and hurt Johnson.
My point exactly- only reason Johnsons name is ever brought up is because he was black. As I've said before he was black and back then blacks were thought to be inferior, so when he beat a couple of white bums everybody regarded him as superman. He became even more of a celebrity when he beat a way way over the hill James J. Jefferies. Johnson has the most padded record i've ever seen getting knocked down by middleweights and having trouble against lhw and middleweights. All this being said- Johnson had the advantage considering he was thought to be a giant standing at 6'. He had only a few big names and most of them were very old (ie James J. Jefferies).

Jack Johnson - Good historical figure, decent boxer, not top10 material.

Marciano KO Johnson 9 :boxing:

rocco1252
06-02-2006, 06:30 PM
i agree that rocky was better than alot of people give him credit for but i dont think he is as goodas you think

joe louis was way past his prime when he fought marciano and i cant see anyof the others mentioned being in the top 20 or 30 boxers of all time
YOU ARE A FOOL THEN WHO KNOWS NOTHING OF BOXING, IF THATS WHAT YOU THINK. PLEASE JUST TELL ME YOU PUT PATTERSON ON YOUR TOP 20 LIST AND LISTON BECAUSE I WILL LAUGH HYSTERICALLY IF THEY MAKE IT AND CHARLES AND WALCOTT DONT MAKE IT

Dempsey 1919
06-03-2006, 01:33 AM
YOU ARE A FOOL THEN WHO KNOWS NOTHING OF BOXING, IF THATS WHAT YOU THINK. PLEASE JUST TELL ME YOU PUT PATTERSON ON YOUR TOP 20 LIST AND LISTON BECAUSE I WILL LAUGH HYSTERICALLY IF THEY MAKE IT AND CHARLES AND WALCOTT DONT MAKE IT

You are the fool if you think that Charles and Walcott are better than Liston.

hellfire508
06-05-2006, 06:24 AM
You are the fool if you think that Charles and Walcott are better than Liston.

Liston was a better heavyweight than Charles and Walcott, hands down. There is no question about it in my opinion. I have Liston at number 8, and Walcott and Charles at 15 and 16 respectively. Charles was a brilliant light-heavyweight, but his achievements there don't count for **** at heavyweight. Otherwise Bob Foster is one of the best heavyweights. :rolleyes:

Rocco1252 - Please tell me you don't rank these two higher than Liston? Even Patterson IMHO deserves to be higher. I rank him 14th.

Dempsey 1919
06-05-2006, 02:33 PM
Liston was a better heavyweight than Charles and Walcott, hands down. There is no question about it in my opinion. I have Liston at number 8, and Walcott and Charles at 15 and 16 respectively. Charles was a brilliant light-heavyweight, but his achievements there don't count for **** at heavyweight. Otherwise Bob Foster is one of the best heavyweights. :rolleyes:

Rocco1252 - Please tell me you don't rank these two higher than Liston? Even Patterson IMHO deserves to be higher. I rank him 14th.

He's only saying that cause they fought marciano. Sometimes he makes an ass out of himself with the posts he makes.

rocco1252
06-05-2006, 08:34 PM
He's only saying that cause they fought marciano. Sometimes he makes an ass out of himself with the posts he makes.
bro you make an ass out of yourself with every post you make, so I wouldnt be talking. It's simple I like Marciano more than you do, you love Ali I like Ali see theres the difference of course your going to favor Ali's opponents because they were in his era and thats who he fought. You put Tyson in your top 5 that alone says enough right there about your judgement so I'm gonna leave you and your pathetic opinions alone because frankly it's a waste of time talking to you.

Dempsey 1919
06-05-2006, 11:04 PM
bro you make an ass out of yourself with every post you make, so I wouldnt be talking. It's simple I like Marciano more than you do, you love Ali I like Ali see theres the difference of course your going to favor Ali's opponents because they were in his era and thats who he fought. You put Tyson in your top 5 that alone says enough right there about your judgement so I'm gonna leave you and your pathetic opinions alone because frankly it's a waste of time talking to you.

Let me ask you again, do you think that Ezzard Charles and Jeersey Joe Walcott are better then Sonny Liston?

RockyMarcianofan00
06-06-2006, 05:00 PM
Let me ask you again, do you think that Ezzard Charles and Jeersey Joe Walcott are better then Sonny Liston?
Well I don't consider Nikolay Valuev better then Rocky Marciano.

Hard Boiled HK
06-06-2006, 08:14 PM
43 KNOCK OUTS in 49 fights!
88% Knockout ratio

Didnt fight anyone special? Rocky Marciano has one of the most impressive resumes in any divisions history.

-Archie Moore -------------- Recognized as top 5
-"Jersey" Joe Walcott twice - One of the top 10
-Joe Louis ------------------ Recognized as best boxer in history
-Phil Muscato
-Freddie Beshore
-Harry "Kid" Matthews
-Ezzard Charles (Twice)
-Roland LaStanza (Twice) --- One of the top five chins in history

Its not just that he fought legends, he beat them all, mostly by KO.

Rocky Marciano has the highest percentage of KOs than any other Heavyweight boxer in history at 88%. We already came to a conclusion that its more impressive than George Foremans record of his fist 49 fights as Rocky Marciano fought 2X's as many legends and even more iron chins.





Rocky Marciano had his own defensive style of boxing, it was sloppy looking, but incredibly successful. It was much harder to land any punch on Marciano as he would duck more throw his body back and jump around than what it would seem. Check out his moves here.

The Greatest Heavyweight Champion EVER!
My rating: 5 out of 5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKZr3wYOFQA
Comments: Rocky Marciano was an Italian-American boxer who is the greatest Heavyweight champion to ever box, he is the only heavyweight champion to have retire UDEFEATED after FOUR YEARS of holding the title. He fought the best and he beat the best. A huge achievement that noone else has equaled. Heres a famous clip of his knockout of Joe Louis, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofpq9ZVBZ98

Still dont believe me? Fine dont take my word, take the word of the Legends that lost to him.





asked where Marciano had improved most between the first and second fights:


Others




Ali said he was surprised at how hard it was to land a hit on Marciano when they had the exhibition, the computer match.
http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Arena/1047//Rocky13.html


Arguement that Marciano only beat people past their prime.

http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Arena/1047//Rocky13.html

Seems to me these facts speak louder than anything else. Marcianos age difference is actually lower than all of the other legends when they won their titles.

Their was a ten year age difference between Moore and Marciano, significant but not nearly as bad as some of the above, and they are more well known that Marciano.

Check this out, Floyd Patterson was 21 years younger than Archie Moore and Archie KOed him by the fifth round. This happened after Marciano KOed Archie Moore.

http://www.fighttoys.com/Moore%20record.htm

And it took Tyson 12 rounds, in his prime, to win a fight with James Smith by desicion. Tyson was 14 years younger than James Smith

http://www.fighttoys.com/Tyson%20record.htm
If you think winning a desicion over James Smith, who the hell is that, with a 14 year age difference is more impressive than KOing a man 10 years older than you that has gone down in history as one of the finest men in boxing you are the most biased person on these boards.


in 1969 Marciano had an exhibition match when at 46 years old with a much younger Muhammad Ali who had was already established himself as the greatest. The 46 year old Marciano beat Ali. You can argue the computer was wrong, we all know computers are unreliable.
http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Arena/1047/alirock.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Arena/1047//alirock.html


Punching power


How could a 5'10 185lb man be so powerful? He was simply the most conditioned fighter to ever enter the ring. Noone will argue with you on that one. He was 185lbs but more powerful than most 200+lb punchers. :boxing: :boxing:
http://www.terra.es/personal3/r3198r/rockymarciano.jpg
You have the facts regarding the computer fight with Muhammad Ali a little biased. In it, they took the data of a prime Rocky vs. a prime Ali. It was not a 46 year old Rocky that they took data from. They only filmed it when he was 46 years old. As a matter of fact, if you look some more into it, there were two versions of that fight. Obviously, in the USA version, Ali lost, and this was what the public wanted anyway. However, in the European version, Ali had won. I read somewhere that given the data fed into the computer, Ali was really the true winner.

Dempsey 1919
06-06-2006, 08:15 PM
Well I don't consider Nikolay Valuev better then Rocky Marciano.

:confused:

hellfire508
06-06-2006, 09:46 PM
You have the facts regarding the computer fight with Muhammad Ali a little biased. In it, they took the data of a prime Rocky vs. a prime Ali. It was not a 46 year old Rocky that they took data from. They only filmed it when he was 46 years old. As a matter of fact, if you look some more into it, there were two versions of that fight. Obviously, in the USA version, Ali lost, and this was what the public wanted anyway. However, in the European version, Ali had won. I read somewhere that given the data fed into the computer, Ali was really the true winner.

It's absolutely hilarious that people take the computer fight seriously. Not only were there multiple endings, but a computer cannot determine a fight! Geez. There is a simulator out now that matches all the great fighters up... why don't we stop arguing mythical matchups and just use that! :confused:

Its a load of ****. Marciano fans use it likes it a FACT that a prime Rock beats Ali, because this "old" Marciano did. Computers never lie guys!

Get a clue.

hellfire508
06-06-2006, 09:47 PM
LOL. After reading the first post, I look at the title of this thread and laugh. They kind of embarassed themselves.

Hard Boiled HK
06-06-2006, 10:39 PM
A lot of people were happy and satisfied when the USA version of Ali vs. Marciano computer fight results were released. Marciano was there "Great White Hope" since there wasn't one that could defeat Ali during Ali's era. I suppose we all have our favorites, and will forever stand by them.

Hous
06-07-2006, 07:25 PM
It's absolutely hilarious that people take the computer fight seriously. Not only were there multiple endings, but a computer cannot determine a fight! Geez. There is a simulator out now that matches all the great fighters up... why don't we stop arguing mythical matchups and just use that! :confused:

Its a load of ****. Marciano fans use it likes it a FACT that a prime Rock beats Ali, because this "old" Marciano did. Computers never lie guys!

Get a clue.

If you read about the fight the rules were punches to the face were to be pulled but punches to the stomache were to be used at 100%. Who do you think benefitted from that? Not Marciano!!!

Gues what Marciano landed a shot right in Ali stomache and he was floored, he got up and demanded more money or he wouldn't continue to fight with Marciano. He got the money and the fight went on. Marciano offered to go at a full 12 round proffessional boxing match but that never materialized.

Keep in mind Marciano was a balding man at the time, he was by no means even close to his prime when he meet the much younger Ali.

Ali later said he became closer to Marciano than he had any other white boxer.

Noone says the fight was a done deal that Marciano would have beat Ali if they ever meet.

RockyMarcianofan00
06-07-2006, 07:54 PM
People complain about Marciano fans but Ali fans are 10000000x worse

italianmafia23
06-07-2006, 10:40 PM
Rocky Marciano is the greatest of all time and there is no doubt about that. Why in the world do people try and argue that? It baffles me. He never lost a fight in his career and was the only heavyweight champ in history to retire undefeated. He beat the "unbeatable" Joe Louis by KO. Louis was knocked down twice in the 8th. Marciano dropped Louis for an 8-count with a left hook, and then sent him through the ropes for the knockout. He KO'd Archie Moore; he KO'd Ezzard Charles; he KO'd Jersey Joe Walcott twice, the second time in the first round; He TKO'd Roland LaStarza -- He didn't just beat the best, he knocked them out. What more do you want???

Hard Boiled HK
06-07-2006, 11:05 PM
Rocky Marciano is the greatest of all time and there is no doubt about that. Why in the world do people try and argue that? It baffles me. He never lost a fight in his career and was the only heavyweight champ in history to retire undefeated. He beat the "unbeatable" Joe Louis by KO. Louis was knocked down twice in the 8th. Marciano dropped Louis for an 8-count with a left hook, and then sent him through the ropes for the knockout. He KO'd Archie Moore; he KO'd Ezzard Charles; he KO'd Jersey Joe Walcott twice, the second time in the first round; He TKO'd Roland LaStarza -- He didn't just beat the best, he knocked them out. What more do you want???
You said "Rocky Marciano is the greatest of all time and there's no doubt about that". How can there be no doubt about it? Who ever people consider as "the greatest" is only a matter of opinion, and to answer your question, that's why people will try and argue who the greatest of all time is. It's their opinion.

Joe Louis was already an old man when Marciano fought him (Joe was 9 years older than Rocky), and you made it sound as if Marciano did the impossible. You can't be "unbeatable" forever. Rocky Marciano was one of the greats, but you are certainly bias when you say he is the greatest of all time AND also say there's no doubt about it.

italianmafia23
06-07-2006, 11:13 PM
bro you make an ass out of yourself with every post you make, so I wouldnt be talking. It's simple I like Marciano more than you do, you love Ali I like Ali see theres the difference of course your going to favor Ali's opponents because they were in his era and thats who he fought. You put Tyson in your top 5 that alone says enough right there about your judgement so I'm gonna leave you and your pathetic opinions alone because frankly it's a waste of time talking to you.

What is wrong with having Tyson in the top 5? Before he got rid of Kevin Rooney he was unbeatable, he never came close to losing. He knocked out Marvis Frazier (Joe Frazier's son) who later suffered a pinched nerve in his neck which ended his career possibly as a result of the viscious uppercut from Tyson(for those who saw the viscious uppercut from Tyson know what I am talking about). Marvis Frazier wasn't exactly a top tier fighter though he was just Smokin' Joe's son and that was his claim to fame. However, Tyson also beat some very talented fighters in their prime. He absolutely destroyed Trevor Berbick by second round TKO to become the youngest heavyweight champion of all time. Berbick was the last fighter to defeat Ali before Ali's retirement winning by unanimous decision. Tyson also fought Pinklon Thomas who at one point was pictured as the future of the heavyweight division. Thomas was 29-1 with his only loss being against Berbick for the title. Thomas was TKO'd in round 6 by Tyson. Then there was 35-0 Tony Tucker, Tyson went the distance winning in an impressive unanimous decision dispelling the common myth that the prime Tyson didn't have stamina and endurance -- that's right, it's just a myth! Immediatly following the domination of Tony Tucker, Tyson fought an undefeated up and comer Tyrell Biggs who was 15-0 and TKO'd him in the 7th round. Then there was Larry Holmes, the legend. Holmes was the second to last person to beat Ali before his retirement. Ali was getting beat so bad that Ali's corner stopped the fight between the 10th and 11th rounds. Holmes was on top of the world at 48-0 before losing by unanimous decision to Michael Spinks. Spinks also beat him in the rematch. Holmes then squared off against a prime Tyson and was TKO'd in round 4. After destroying the legend Tyson fought 24-1 Tony Tubbs TKOing him in round 2 and Tubbs was badly hurt in the fight. Tyson then fought yet another boxing hall of famer Michael Spinks who was the first to defeat the undefeatable Larry Holmes TWICE and was 31-0. Michael Spinks was already in the record books by now and was considered the best fighter since Ali (at the time) and Tyson was the underdog coming into the fight. Tyson knocked him down twice and Spinks didn't get up after the second knock down. Spinks had NEVER been knocked down even once in his career before fighting Tyson! Tyson's first round destruction of Michael Spinks ranked in the top 5 of the fastest Heavyweight Title match knockouts of all time. Spinks was beaten so badly and embarrassingly by Tyson that he decided never to fight again retiring with just 1 loss. After 1988 Tyson became ****y and decided only to train when he felt like it. Cus D'Amato was now dead and with him went Tyson's work ethic and discipline. Tyson fired trainer Kevin Rooney along with a few others and brought in Don King as his promoter (possibly the worst decision a boxer can make) and got lost in the glory. By 1989 Tyson had already begun his decline in terms of his training and by 1990 it showed when he got knocked out by James "Buster" Douglas which was considered one of the biggest upsets in history. Tyson had a knockout percentage of 88% second only to George Foreman who had a knockout percentage of 89%. Mike Tyson had the best comination of pure hand speed and devestating punching power ever seen. Tyson moved around well, had excellent technique, lightning quick reflexes and flawless defense (most people don't see him as a defensive fighter but in his prime Tyson was a magnificent defensive fighter). Iron Mike, in my opinion, had the most devestating punch of all time when he was in his prime; yes, even better than Foreman. He was blessed with natural talent and worked very hard to become great early on in his career learning everything he could from the great ones before him under the watchful eye of legend Cus D'Amato. Tyson was never visibly hurt by any punch in his career up until the Douglas fight -- never wobbled stunned or dazed. Mike Tyson had the potential to possibly become the greatest of all time but his personality destroyed his opportunity...

Don't knock Tyson, he is and for ever will be a legend whether you want to accept it or not.

italianmafia23
06-07-2006, 11:28 PM
You said "Rocky Marciano is the greatest of all time and there's no doubt about that". How can there be no doubt about it? Who ever people consider as "the greatest" is only a matter of opinion, and to answer your question, that's why people will try and argue who the greatest of all time is. It's their opinion.

Joe Louis was already an old man when Marciano fought him (Joe was 9 years older than Rocky), and you made it sound as if Marciano did the impossible. You can't be "unbeatable" forever. Rocky Marciano was one of the greats, but you are certainly bias when you say he is the greatest of all time AND also say there's no doubt about it.

If Ali would have fought Marciano and won then I would accept Ali as the greatest unfortunatly that fight never happened. My personal opinion is that it is simply biased to consider someone anything less than the best when they fight the best fighters available to them and yet knock them all out before retiring UNDEFEATED as the champ. Marciano never ducked anyone he fought every top tier fighter available in that era before retiring. Had Marciano lost a fight or two then I would definatly rank Ali above hime but it never happened. Until the champ is beat he remains the champ. In the end Rocky Marciano is the only heavyweight champion to retire undefeated. 49-0 may never be duplicated.

RockyMarcianofan00
06-07-2006, 11:30 PM
If Ali would have fought Marciano and won then I would accept Ali as the greatest unfortunatly that fight never happened. My personal opinion is that it is simply biased to consider someone anything less than the best when they fight the best fighters available to them and yet knock them all out before retiring UNDEFEATED. Had Marciano lost a fight or two then I would definatly rank Ali above hime but it never happened and until the champ is beat he remains the champ and Marciano is the only heavyweight champ to retire undefeated.
well put
:boxing:

hellfire508
06-08-2006, 12:05 AM
If you read about the fight the rules were punches to the face were to be pulled but punches to the stomache were to be used at 100%. Who do you think benefitted from that? Not Marciano!!!

Gues what Marciano landed a shot right in Ali stomache and he was floored, he got up and demanded more money or he wouldn't continue to fight with Marciano. He got the money and the fight went on. Marciano offered to go at a full 12 round proffessional boxing match but that never materialized.

Keep in mind Marciano was a balding man at the time, he was by no means even close to his prime when he meet the much younger Ali.

Ali later said he became closer to Marciano than he had any other white boxer.

Noone says the fight was a done deal that Marciano would have beat Ali if they ever meet.

Just so you know, Ali was very out of shape. He was clowning, jesting, whatever you wanna call it. He didn't give a ****, he was there for some quick bucks. Marciano turned serious, and landed a body blow that floored Ali. What does this mean? NOTHING!

Oh, and what are you on about? Bodyshots benefit Marciano. Ali only ever through the occasional jab to the body, how would it benefit him? And it's irrelevant, because the fight was SCRIPTED!!!

Ali would beat Marciano, fairly comfortably.

hellfire508
06-08-2006, 12:09 AM
If Ali would have fought Marciano and won then I would accept Ali as the greatest unfortunatly that fight never happened. My personal opinion is that it is simply biased to consider someone anything less than the best when they fight the best fighters available to them and yet knock them all out before retiring UNDEFEATED as the champ. Marciano never ducked anyone he fought every top tier fighter available in that era before retiring. Had Marciano lost a fight or two then I would definatly rank Ali above hime but it never happened. Until the champ is beat he remains the champ. In the end Rocky Marciano is the only heavyweight champion to retire undefeated. 49-0 may never be duplicated.

Nobody can stay undefeated when you are fighting the competition Ali fought. Marciano beat 2 top 20 heavyweights. Ali beat 3 top 10 heavyweights, plus two other top 20 heavyweights. Plus all the contenders like Bonavena, Quarry etc. were excellent fighters. Ali's competition is far, far better than Marciano's - and I don't care what anyone says, QUALITY is the most important factor.

Hard Boiled HK
06-08-2006, 12:29 AM
I completely agree with hellfire508, but I also agree with italianmafia23 in the fact that Rocky will always be a champ. I must ask italianmafia23 though, since you said if Rocky lost 1 or 2 fights then you would "defintely rank Ali above him", who do you think will win if Ali fought Rocky?

Dempsey 1919
06-08-2006, 03:31 AM
Rocky Marciano is the greatest of all time and there is no doubt about that. Why in the world do people try and argue that? It baffles me. He never lost a fight in his career and was the only heavyweight champ in history to retire undefeated. He beat the "unbeatable" Joe Louis by KO. Louis was knocked down twice in the 8th. Marciano dropped Louis for an 8-count with a left hook, and then sent him through the ropes for the knockout. He KO'd Archie Moore; he KO'd Ezzard Charles; he KO'd Jersey Joe Walcott twice, the second time in the first round; He TKO'd Roland LaStarza -- He didn't just beat the best, he knocked them out. What more do you want???

Let me guess, you're white, right?

hellfire508
06-08-2006, 03:35 AM
Rocky Marciano is the greatest of all time and there is no doubt about that. Why in the world do people try and argue that? It baffles me. He never lost a fight in his career and was the only heavyweight champ in history to retire undefeated. He beat the "unbeatable" Joe Louis by KO. Louis was knocked down twice in the 8th. Marciano dropped Louis for an 8-count with a left hook, and then sent him through the ropes for the knockout. He KO'd Archie Moore; he KO'd Ezzard Charles; he KO'd Jersey Joe Walcott twice, the second time in the first round; He TKO'd Roland LaStarza -- He didn't just beat the best, he knocked them out. What more do you want???

Muhammad Ali beat the "invincible" Sonny Liston twice. He knocked the "invincible" George Foreman at his peak, out in 8 rounds, he beat Joe Frazier twice, Ken Norton twice, Jerry Quarry twice, Bonavena, Williams, Folley, Terrell, Cooper, Jones, Bugner, Ellis, Chuvalo, Lyle, Shavers... the list goes on! Anything else?

sleazyfellow
06-08-2006, 03:37 AM
Let me guess, you're white, right?

white/black or brown, when u gonna realize marciano had fist of concrete, not stone, he had the ability to ko anyone at any stage in his entire life....u think tarver punches hurder? naw i dont think so, so marciano>everyone else, he kos anybody b4 or AFTER who ever laced up gloves, get that? put that in alis pipe n light it up for him, cause he might as well not boxed at all, coming after marciano, patterson shoulda just kept running the streets cause theres no way hed be better, tyson? he shoulda just kept running with the jollystompers cause marciano woulda koed him metaphorically if he was still fighting! yeah, marciano number 1, i dont care what everyone or boxing ppl have to say, he ran far, punched even farther! :rolleyes:

i bet u feel stupid after these facts!

Dempsey 1919
06-08-2006, 04:00 AM
white/black or brown, when u gonna realize marciano had fist of concrete, not stone, he had the ability to ko anyone at any stage in his entire life....u think tarver punches hurder? naw i dont think so, so marciano>everyone else, he kos anybody b4 or AFTER who ever laced up gloves, get that? put that in alis pipe n light it up for him, cause he might as well not boxed at all, coming after marciano, patterson shoulda just kept running the streets cause theres no way hed be better, tyson? he shoulda just kept running with the jollystompers cause marciano woulda koed him metaphorically if he was still fighting! yeah, marciano number 1, i dont care what everyone or boxing ppl have to say, he ran far, punched even farther! :rolleyes:

i bet u feel stupid after these facts!

Why do you think marciano retired in the first place, so he wouldn't have to fight Liston.

hellfire508
06-08-2006, 04:02 AM
white/black or brown, when u gonna realize marciano had fist of concrete, not stone, he had the ability to ko anyone at any stage in his entire life....u think tarver punches hurder? naw i dont think so, so marciano>everyone else, he kos anybody b4 or AFTER who ever laced up gloves, get that? put that in alis pipe n light it up for him, cause he might as well not boxed at all, coming after marciano, patterson shoulda just kept running the streets cause theres no way hed be better, tyson? he shoulda just kept running with the jollystompers cause marciano woulda koed him metaphorically if he was still fighting! yeah, marciano number 1, i dont care what everyone or boxing ppl have to say, he ran far, punched even farther! :rolleyes:

i bet u feel stupid after these facts!

Oh god, have you been taking ignorance pills?

Just ignore him butterfly.

Brockton Lip
06-08-2006, 10:40 AM
Why do you think marciano retired in the first place

Because he hurt his back and didn't enjoy fighting as much as he previously had.

RockyMarcianofan00
06-08-2006, 04:37 PM
Why do you think marciano retired in the first place, so he wouldn't have to fight Liston.
thats the stupidest thing I've ever heard you say butterfly-
when Marciano retired Liston was 13-1, I'm not sure his ranking at the time but surely not top 20. Liston wouldnt' even have a shot at the title for at least 4 more years, and it wasn't until 6 years later that he got the title.
Rocky Marciano never ran from a fight, he even said himself he never knew fear in the ring, does that mean he thought he was invincible, no, he knew he wasn't invincible but he had to much heart and pride to back out of a fight.
He even wanted to come out of retirement to fight Liston.
Liston's image is so distorted, 3 reasons Rocky Marciano retired-

1)Rocky Marciano at the time of his retirement was suffering from a back injury and wasn't sure if he could be at 100% for any upcoming fights, and if he's not at 100% then he didn't want to go in.

2)Manager troubles- when Rocky Marciano first signed with his manager Rocky was very nieve. When Rocky was young he considered 200 dollars to be alot (as it was during the depression) and for a boy only making maybe a few dollars for another job he didn't mind Weill getting almost 60% (or something like that.) What Marciano actually intended to do was to retire and make a comeback because the Contract ended when Marciano retired supposedly.

3)He had lost his drive for boxing. Marciano didn't want to do it anymore, he was getting older, and he knew that he only had a handful of good fights left, he feared that he'd end up like boxers before him who stayed past there prime. He also said "When I first started out I used to come into the gym and embrace the smell, but now I don't like the smell when I come into the gym" (or something along those lines), basically saying he lost his drive.


Marciano retired from boxing on 28 April 1956. He had lost his drive, had saved much of the $2 million earned from fights and personal appearances, and did not trust Al Weill, whose contract called for Weill to receive one-half of Marciano's earnings both in and out of the ring. Marciano had long felt that Weill was cheating him. He had also heard that Weill had scalped tickets worth thousands of dollars, without involving Marciano, and that Weill had skimmed $10,000 from the promotional costs of Marciano's title defense against Tom ****rell on 16 May 1955.

http://myhero.com/myhero/hero.asp?hero=rockymarciano

Rocky Marciano was able to retire, he had saved up enough money to retire because he didn't want to end up broke like some of his idles before him (Joe Louis,Sugar Ray Robinson, etc). Also he didn't want somebody the priviledge of having his name on there record- this is what he said (making reference to how Joe Louis let his name on Marciano's record)- this is also one of the reasons he didn't make a comeback.

Brockton Lip
06-08-2006, 04:47 PM
Another good Rock post by Marcianofan. :boxing:

Hard Boiled HK
06-08-2006, 06:47 PM
How come a lot of boxers eventually become broke? Don't they make a lot of money when they were champions?

RockyMarcianofan00
06-08-2006, 07:58 PM
How come a lot of boxers eventually become broke? Don't they make a lot of money when they were champions?
well with Joe Louis he donated his entire purse from a bout (I don't remember which one, right before he enlisted) to a like an army relief fund. The day after that bout he enlisted in the army. What happened was the following year when he filed his taxes it wasn't listed as a donation it was listed an earning, so because he donated it he didn't pay taxes on it but because it was listed as an earning and no taxes were paid he was fined. Unfortunately he was never told about this error so the interest grew on this debt. He was in debt for the rest of his life.

I suppose the others could have been bad investing or something.

sleazyfellow
06-09-2006, 12:14 AM
Oh god, have you been taking ignorance pills?
Just ignore him butterfly.

u dont know what kind of pills i have or havent taken in the past twenty4, read the website this was copied n pasted from! and be quiet b4 sumone makes u stupid with da "facts" naw u know im jp about this, rocky would not of remained undefeated that much longer, swarmers tend to have shorter careers than pure boxers, just look at frazier and ali, frazier was cut short, right after the first superfight, while ali kept it going on, to win the title 3 times, but obviously he went a little too far with it :boxing:

hellfire508
06-09-2006, 01:19 AM
u dont know what kind of pills i have or havent taken in the past twenty4, read the website this was copied n pasted from! and be quiet b4 sumone makes u stupid with da "facts" naw u know im jp about this, rocky would not of remained undefeated that much longer, swarmers tend to have shorter careers than pure boxers, just look at frazier and ali, frazier was cut short, right after the first superfight, while ali kept it going on, to win the title 3 times, but obviously he went a little too far with it :boxing:

Ok smartass, make me look stupid with the facts. Go for it.

RockyMarcianofan00
06-09-2006, 01:33 AM
u dont know what kind of pills i have or havent taken in the past twenty4, read the website this was copied n pasted from! and be quiet b4 sumone makes u stupid with da "facts" naw u know im jp about this, rocky would not of remained undefeated that much longer, swarmers tend to have shorter careers than pure boxers, just look at frazier and ali, frazier was cut short, right after the first superfight, while ali kept it going on, to win the title 3 times, but obviously he went a little too far with it :boxing:
Hmm these swarmers had decently long careers


Jack Dempsey - 83 fights
Floyd Patterson- 64 total fights
Mike Tyson - 58 total fights
Rocky Marciano-49 total fights (even though his was a mix swarmer/slugger)
I'm sure there's more I forgot

All these guys had pretty long careers

hellfire508
06-09-2006, 01:33 AM
"white/black or brown, when u gonna realize marciano had fist of concrete, not stone, he had the ability to ko anyone at any stage in his entire life....u think tarver punches hurder? naw i dont think so, so marciano>everyone else, he kos anybody b4 or AFTER who ever laced up gloves, get that? put that in alis pipe n light it up for him, cause he might as well not boxed at all, coming after marciano, patterson shoulda just kept running the streets cause theres no way hed be better, tyson? he shoulda just kept running with the jollystompers cause marciano woulda koed him metaphorically if he was still fighting! yeah, marciano number 1, i dont care what everyone or boxing ppl have to say, he ran far, punched even farther!

i bet u feel stupid after these facts!"
There is your nice little post. It seems to me there are no facts in there at all. Just subjective, biased opinions on your part.

Let's break it down shall we?

"Marciano had fists of concrete" - I believe his fists were bone.

"He had the ability to KO anyone, at any stage in his entire life" - - Interesting fact. What about when he was 11 years old? I thought so. Seriously though, just because Marciano KO'd alot of people, doesn't mean he could KO anyone. Could he KO Chuvalo? How about Ali? Tex Cobb? I don't think so. And if he could KO everyone, why didn't he KO Don Mogard? Or Ted Lowry? Or Red Applegate? Wow there are some big names there, huh?

"You think Tarver punches harder? naw so marciano>everyone else" - Marciano hit a helluva lot harder than Tarver does, that's for sure. However, why does that make him greater than everyone else? Since when does power constitute greatness? If it does, then George Foreman, Mike Tyson, Earnie Shavers, Joe Louis, Lennox Lewis and Gerry Cooney all rank higher than Marciano.

"he kos anybody b4 or AFTER who ever laced up gloves, get that?" -- again, this is just your biased opinion. He had 43 KO's from 49 victories, which means he couldn't even KO some bums from his time, let alone guys from other eras. I'm not one who thinks weight is a factor is greatness, however, these guys that Marciano didn't KO were under 180 pounds for the most part. What's gonna happen when Marciano takes on a Larry Holmes, or Lennox Lewis, or Muhammad Ali?

"put that in alis pipe n light it up for him, cause he might as well not boxed at all, coming after marciano, patterson shoulda just kept running the streets cause theres no way hed be better, tyson?"-
-Ali may aswell not have boxed? Why exactly? Especially considering almost every respected boxing historian ranks him as the number 1 heavyweight, or second behind Joe Louis. Quite frankly this paragraph doesn't make sense. What are you talking about with Patterson? And Tyson? I believe that Tyson in head-to-head terms, was much better than Marciano. In terms of accomplishments, Marciano wins though.

yeah, marciano number 1, i dont care what everyone or boxing ppl have to say, he ran far, punched even farther!
You don't care what everyone else says? Wow, how very open-minded and objective of you. And sorry, when did running distance constitute greatness? Does that mean Kenyan marathon runners were better fighters than Marciano? And no, he did not punch harder than anyone else.

Have a nice day in your world of fantasy.

RockyMarcianofan00
06-09-2006, 01:48 AM
"white/black or brown, when u gonna realize marciano had fist of concrete, not stone, he had the ability to ko anyone at any stage in his entire life....u think tarver punches hurder? naw i dont think so, so marciano>everyone else, he kos anybody b4 or AFTER who ever laced up gloves, get that? put that in alis pipe n light it up for him, cause he might as well not boxed at all, coming after marciano, patterson shoulda just kept running the streets cause theres no way hed be better, tyson? he shoulda just kept running with the jollystompers cause marciano woulda koed him metaphorically if he was still fighting! yeah, marciano number 1, i dont care what everyone or boxing ppl have to say, he ran far, punched even farther!

i bet u feel stupid after these facts!"
There is your nice little post. It seems to me there are no facts in there at all. Just subjective, biased opinions on your part.

Let's break it down shall we?

"Marciano had fists of concrete" - I believe his fists were bone.

"He had the ability to KO anyone, at any stage in his entire life" - - Interesting fact. What about when he was 11 years old? I thought so. Seriously though, just because Marciano KO'd alot of people, doesn't mean he could KO anyone. Could he KO Chuvalo? How about Ali? Tex Cobb? I don't think so. And if he could KO everyone, why didn't he KO Don Mogard? Or Ted Lowry? Or Red Applegate? Wow there are some big names there, huh?

"You think Tarver punches harder? naw so marciano>everyone else" - Marciano hit a helluva lot harder than Tarver does, that's for sure. However, why does that make him greater than everyone else? Since when does power constitute greatness? If it does, then George Foreman, Mike Tyson, Earnie Shavers, Joe Louis, Lennox Lewis and Gerry Cooney all rank higher than Marciano.

"he kos anybody b4 or AFTER who ever laced up gloves, get that?" -- again, this is just your biased opinion. He had 43 KO's from 49 victories, which means he couldn't even KO some bums from his time, let alone guys from other eras. I'm not one who thinks weight is a factor is greatness, however, these guys that Marciano didn't KO were under 180 pounds for the most part. What's gonna happen when Marciano takes on a Larry Holmes, or Lennox Lewis, or Muhammad Ali?

"put that in alis pipe n light it up for him, cause he might as well not boxed at all, coming after marciano, patterson shoulda just kept running the streets cause theres no way hed be better, tyson?"-
-Ali may aswell not have boxed? Why exactly? Especially considering almost every respected boxing historian ranks him as the number 1 heavyweight, or second behind Joe Louis. Quite frankly this paragraph doesn't make sense. What are you talking about with Patterson? And Tyson? I believe that Tyson in head-to-head terms, was much better than Marciano. In terms of accomplishments, Marciano wins though.

yeah, marciano number 1, i dont care what everyone or boxing ppl have to say, he ran far, punched even farther!
You don't care what everyone else says? Wow, how very open-minded and objective of you. And sorry, when did running distance constitute greatness? Does that mean Kenyan marathon runners were better fighters than Marciano? And no, he did not punch harder than anyone else.

Have a nice day in your world of fantasy.
Starting at the top-
He probably hit hella hard for a 11 year old too
:D lol no but seriously He could have KO'd anyone, The names you listed are by UD and there in 10 rounds there's no doubht in my mind had they went longer he'd have KO'd them, If the Walcott fight went 10 Walcott would have won. so ther's your answer to that. But lets remember mostly anybody can KO anybody, KO'ing somebody is just having a good punch in the right place with enough power, difficulty is getting that person hit cleanly.

Next George Foreman, Earnie Shavers, Mike Tyson all hit harder then Rocky Marciano I agree with that, Lennox Lewis its possible considering his size it wouldn't surprise me to hear he hit harder but Still even if Lewis did hit harder I'd never rank Lewis higher then Marciano. I also think Marciano had more efficient power so to speak, Marciano had KO power in either hand and I think Marciano may hit up there with Lewis, Size doesn't necessarily mean somebody hits hard but Lewis had power with his size, harder then Marciano possibley. But you'll post back yelling at me for being a stupid Marciano fan.

Marciano KO'd guys above is weight, lets be honest hear he didn't KO 6 people, now thats pretty good. The fact is many of these guys could have been journeymen who knew how to keep Marciano away or how to cover up well. This would allow some people to not get KO'd. Then Again Roland Lastarza tried this and he got his arms broken. He KO'd everyone while he was prime except Ezzard Charles I, but lets face it Charles was a fighter who knew how to keep people away even with this Marciano was able to score a UD.

I actually don't know what to make of the 4th paragraph :D

What he said is he punched FARTHER then anyone else which I think refers to how Marciano could punch for 15 rounds and be just as fresh (for the most part) in the 15th as he was in the first. Which is true I know very few people who were able to do this, possibly a prime Ali, maybe maybe not.

Alright I try not to be biased because I'm not but IMO Marciano hit harder then Lennox Lewis but the fact that somebody were to argue that doesn't fase me because given his size it's not that easy to believe.

hellfire508
06-09-2006, 01:58 AM
Starting at the top-
He probably hit hella hard for a 11 year old too
:D lol no but seriously He could have KO'd anyone, The names you listed are by UD and there in 10 rounds there's no doubht in my mind had they went longer he'd have KO'd them, If the Walcott fight went 10 Walcott would have won. so ther's your answer to that. But lets remember mostly anybody can KO anybody, KO'ing somebody is just having a good punch in the right place with enough power, difficulty is getting that person hit cleanly.

Next George Foreman, Earnie Shavers, Mike Tyson all hit harder then Rocky Marciano I agree with that, Lennox Lewis its possible considering his size it wouldn't surprise me to hear he hit harder but Still even if Lewis did hit harder I'd never rank Lewis higher then Marciano. I also think Marciano had more efficient power so to speak, Marciano had KO power in either hand and I think Marciano may hit up there with Lewis, Size doesn't necessarily mean somebody hits hard but Lewis had power with his size, harder then Marciano possibley. But you'll post back yelling at me for being a stupid Marciano fan.

Marciano KO'd guys above is weight, lets be honest hear he didn't KO 6 people, now thats pretty good. The fact is many of these guys could have been journeymen who knew how to keep Marciano away or how to cover up well. This would allow some people to not get KO'd. Then Again Roland Lastarza tried this and he got his arms broken. He KO'd everyone while he was prime except Ezzard Charles I, but lets face it Charles was a fighter who knew how to keep people away even with this Marciano was able to score a UD.

I actually don't know what to make of the 4th paragraph :D

What he said is he punched FARTHER then anyone else which I think refers to how Marciano could punch for 15 rounds and be just as fresh (for the most part) in the 15th as he was in the first. Which is true I know very few people who were able to do this, possibly a prime Ali, maybe maybe not.

Alright I try not to be biased because I'm not but IMO Marciano hit harder then Lennox Lewis but the fact that somebody were to argue that doesn't fase me because given his size it's not that easy to believe.

Starting at the top:

No doubt about that. Anyone can KO anyone. I guess I should have said, he WOULDN'T KO everyone.

Second part: No that isn't be a stupid Marciano fan. At least you conceed others hit harder. I feel Lewis hit harder, but there is no way of proving that. So I guess we can just have our opinions. As for him being a more efficient puncher, yeah I can admit to that. I think maybe guys like Tyson were similar in that respect. Foreman had killing power in both hands, but wasn't too conservative with it.

Third paragraph: No doubt. Marciano for his size was a machine. He would be a tough fight for every ATG. I pick a few fighters to beat him, but that takes nothing away from how good he was. And yeah I wasn't holding the 43 from 49 against him, that is a brilliant KO record. I was just pointing out to that nuthugger that he didn't just KO everybody, like he suggested. I guess it shows that he could win decisions, which is an up for him.

Yeah just ignore the 4th paragraph.

And your last point, I see what you mean. Yeah Marciano carried his power into the late rounds as good as, if not better than anyone. Perhaps Frazier is up there too.

Basically I'm not having a go at Marciano, I'm just trying to show this other guy that he is talking out of his ass.

RockyMarcianofan00
06-09-2006, 02:03 AM
Starting at the top:

No doubt about that. Anyone can KO anyone. I guess I should have said, he WOULDN'T KO everyone.

Second part: No that isn't be a stupid Marciano fan. At least you conceed others hit harder. I feel Lewis hit harder, but there is no way of proving that. So I guess we can just have our opinions. As for him being a more efficient puncher, yeah I can admit to that. I think maybe guys like Tyson were similar in that respect. Foreman had killing power in both hands, but wasn't too conservative with it.

Third paragraph: No doubt. Marciano for his size was a machine. He would be a tough fight for every ATG. I pick a few fighters to beat him, but that takes nothing away from how good he was. And yeah I wasn't holding the 43 from 49 against him, that is a brilliant KO record. I was just pointing out to that nuthugger that he didn't just KO everybody, like he suggested. I guess it shows that he could win decisions, which is an up for him.

Yeah just ignore the 4th paragraph.

And your last point, I see what you mean. Yeah Marciano carried his power into the late rounds as good as, if not better than anyone. Perhaps Frazier is up there too.

Basically I'm not having a go at Marciano, I'm just trying to show this other guy that he is talking out of his ass.

Eh some of my very first posts were saying that Marciano hit harder then Foreman but then I watched like 10000 more fights since then and my view is a little less distorted.

Foreman had killing power in his right hand, and really hard power in his left. Guys I definitely know hit harder then Marciano are Foreman,Shavers,and Tyson. There are others that I rank up with Marciano. Guys like Liston,Dempsey,Max Baer,Joe Frazier,Joe Louis. These are all guys that i rank in the same general area as marciano whether above or below eh I have my opinions.
P4P- Marciano hit the hardest IMO

When I first came here I wish i saw this video this kinda shows you foremans power.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvirljx6ob4&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eboxingscene%2Ecom%2Fforums %2Fshowthread%2Ephp%3Fp%3D1532925

hellfire508
06-09-2006, 02:18 AM
Nice video. Thanks for that.

RockyMarcianofan00
06-09-2006, 02:34 AM
I bookmarked it out of a different thread :D

sleazyfellow
06-09-2006, 02:44 AM
Ok smartass, make me look stupid with the facts. Go for it.

i guess u didnt notice the jp i wrote down, it means just playing, u notice how butterfly doesnt jump all over my post, cause he knows im just talking stupid, i said in earlier threads liston would ko marciano, u just seem to not notice, oh, and i posted that video on another thread in fantasy fights... lol...marciano ko in 2 rounds everyone

RockyMarcianofan00
06-09-2006, 02:45 AM
i guess u didnt notice the jp i wrote down, it means just playing, u notice how butterfly doesnt jump all over my post, cause he knows im just talking stupid, i said in earlier threads liston would ko marciano, u just seem to not notice, oh, and i posted that video on another thread in fantasy fights... lol...marciano ko in 2 rounds everyone
Yea that is pretty funny

sleazyfellow
06-09-2006, 02:53 AM
i meant that though, no joking..just my opinion though

hellfire508
06-09-2006, 03:03 AM
i guess u didnt notice the jp i wrote down, it means just playing, u notice how butterfly doesnt jump all over my post, cause he knows im just talking stupid, i said in earlier threads liston would ko marciano, u just seem to not notice, oh, and i posted that video on another thread in fantasy fights... lol...marciano ko in 2 rounds everyone

Oh, in that case I do apologise.

I didn't see the "jp", and even if I did, I wouldn't have known what it mean.

Sorry mate.

Dempsey 1919
06-09-2006, 05:49 AM
I bookmarked it out of a different thread :D

I posted it, didn't I? :D

RockyMarcianofan00
06-09-2006, 09:24 PM
I posted it, didn't I? :D
It's very possible I don't remember what thread or the poster, I didn't book mark the thread I book marked the youtube. Its a good video though :D

sleazyfellow
06-10-2006, 01:52 AM
http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1532925#post1532925

i win! just like marciano against every1

Brockton Lip
06-10-2006, 08:04 AM
Rocky probably hits harder than Tyson too.

Dempsey 1919
06-10-2006, 07:09 PM
Rocky probably hits harder than Tyson too.

Uhmmm, no.

RockyMarcianofan00
06-10-2006, 07:13 PM
Rocky probably hits harder than Tyson too.
In terms of flat out Power Punching Its possible but Tyson was more explosive, and Power:Speed he Hit harder.

Mike Tyson77
06-18-2006, 08:45 PM
49-0 speaks for its self.

RockyMarcianofan00
06-18-2006, 09:10 PM
49-0 speaks for its self.
Some people just don't listen :rolleyes:

hellfire508
06-19-2006, 07:03 AM
49-0 speaks for its self.

Bull****.

Numbers mean ****. Valuev is nearly at that for **** sake.

Its about quality of opposition. As someone said, "you give me a guy who's undefeated, and I'll give you a guy who hasnt fought anybody."

HOWEVER - I think Marciano had good competition. Therefore his undefeated record does stand for alot. Walcott, Charles, Moore and old Louis. Excellent fighters.

The Raging Bull
06-19-2006, 07:34 AM
The facts of the matter are Marciano fought everyone that he possibly could. He also fought great boxers and was an amzing champion. BUT he was not a graceful boxer. He was awkward and this is why people talk **** about him. But maybe thats why he won all of his fights because people weren't used to it. Everyone has their own opinions and i feel people should remember this.

Mike Tyson77
06-19-2006, 10:51 PM
Some people just don't listen :rolleyes:


What are you talking about?????????? Im saying the Rock is GREAT!


No one beat him, cause no one could. He had an iron will, he refused to lose. When he came close to losing, he would score a big KO.

RockyMarcianofan00
06-19-2006, 11:18 PM
What are you talking about?????????? Im saying the Rock is GREAT!


No one beat him, cause no one could. He had an iron will, he refused to lose. When he came close to losing, he would score a big KO.
I'm agreeing

49-0 speaks for itself - but sometimes people just don't listen aka ingroance

:rolleyes:

Mike Tyson77
06-20-2006, 12:25 PM
I'm agreeing

49-0 speaks for itself - but sometimes people just don't listen aka ingroance

:rolleyes:



Ya, he was one of the greatest if the greatest.


I always make the statement, "All the great fighters lost at least once!,....well except Rocky Marciano."

Dempsey 1919
06-21-2006, 03:47 AM
Ya, he was one of the greatest if the greatest.


I always make the statement, "All the great fighters lost at least once!,....well except Rocky Marciano."

I could name about 20 people that would be undefeated fighting the same people marciano fought.

Yaman
06-21-2006, 04:01 AM
I could name about 20 people that would be undefeated fighting the same people marciano fought.

But you know thats bull**** right, cause you dont know how they would've done. A greatness of a heavyweight is not supposed to be measured on who can beat who, or judgin how other fighters would've done in their era. Riddick Bowe in his 3fights prime is probably good enough for the top 10 of all time list, but would you honestly put that screw up higher than guys like Marciano or Patterson?

Southpaw Stinger
06-21-2006, 08:38 AM
I'm agreeing

49-0 speaks for itself - but sometimes people just don't listen aka ingroance

:rolleyes:


I like your new sig RockyMarcianofan00. It's pretty cool.

Dempsey 1919
06-21-2006, 10:49 AM
I like your new sig RockyMarcianofan00. It's pretty cool.

What about my sig?

Yaman
06-21-2006, 11:50 AM
You made that yourself? Aint that bad.
How about mine? :eek:

Dempsey 1919
06-21-2006, 01:14 PM
You made that yourself? Aint that bad.
How about mine? :eek:

Actually, I stole it from someone else. :D

Dempsey 1919
06-21-2006, 01:14 PM
You made that yourself? Aint that bad.
How about mine? :eek:

Oh, and yours is alright I guess.

Mike Tyson77
06-21-2006, 01:48 PM
How about mine? :D

That's classic Tyson from 87', after he KO'd Biggs I think.

RockyMarcianofan00
06-21-2006, 01:54 PM
I like your new sig RockyMarcianofan00. It's pretty cool.
Thanks
I did it in this Photoshop knock off called Photoplus

I want real photoshop though...

Yaman
06-21-2006, 01:54 PM
How about mine? :D

That's classic Tyson from 87', after he KO'd Biggs I think.

I dont see a signature buddy. I do see Tyson's last KO though, on your avatar.

hellfire508
06-22-2006, 05:34 AM
I could name about 20 people that would be undefeated fighting the same people marciano fought.

No you couldn't.

6 or 7 maybe, not 20.

Dempsey 1919
06-22-2006, 05:08 PM
No you couldn't.

6 or 7 maybe, not 20.

Ok, maybe 10.

RockyMarcianofan00
06-22-2006, 06:40 PM
Ok, maybe 10.
I'd say 5 but w.e

I can't name any that put in Marciano's shoes would have been 49-0

I mean the guy was 8-4 as an amateur- Ali was 100-1

I mean Ali had alot longer then Marciano to develop his skills...As did many others, and on top of that Marciano didn't even box until he was in his 20's, and before he began he was overweight and a heavy smoker so...

Hard Boiled HK
06-22-2006, 08:14 PM
I thought Ali had more than one lost during his amateur days?

Frazier's 15th round
06-23-2006, 02:25 AM
Marciano was the man. I'd probably rate him in the top 3 of all time heavyweights.

Mike Tyson Jr.
06-23-2006, 10:57 AM
43 KNOCK OUTS in 49 fights!
88% Knockout ratio

Didnt fight anyone special? Rocky Marciano has one of the most impressive resumes in any divisions history.

-Archie Moore -------------- Recognized as top 5
-"Jersey" Joe Walcott twice - One of the top 10
-Joe Louis ------------------ Recognized as best boxer in history
-Phil Muscato
-Freddie Beshore
-Harry "Kid" Matthews
-Ezzard Charles (Twice)
-Roland LaStanza (Twice) --- One of the top five chins in history

Its not just that he fought legends, he beat them all, mostly by KO.

Rocky Marciano has the highest percentage of KOs than any other Heavyweight boxer in history at 88%. We already came to a conclusion that its more impressive than George Foremans record of his fist 49 fights as Rocky Marciano fought 2X's as many legends and even more iron chins.





Rocky Marciano had his own defensive style of boxing, it was sloppy looking, but incredibly successful. It was much harder to land any punch on Marciano as he would duck more throw his body back and jump around than what it would seem. Check out his moves here.

The Greatest Heavyweight Champion EVER!
My rating: 5 out of 5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKZr3wYOFQA
Comments: Rocky Marciano was an Italian-American boxer who is the greatest Heavyweight champion to ever box, he is the only heavyweight champion to have retire UDEFEATED after FOUR YEARS of holding the title. He fought the best and he beat the best. A huge achievement that noone else has equaled. Heres a famous clip of his knockout of Joe Louis, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofpq9ZVBZ98

Still dont believe me? Fine dont take my word, take the word of the Legends that lost to him.





asked where Marciano had improved most between the first and second fights:


Others




Ali said he was surprised at how hard it was to land a hit on Marciano when they had the exhibition, the computer match.
http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Arena/1047//Rocky13.html


Arguement that Marciano only beat people past their prime.

http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Arena/1047//Rocky13.html

Seems to me these facts speak louder than anything else. Marcianos age difference is actually lower than all of the other legends when they won their titles.

Their was a ten year age difference between Moore and Marciano, significant but not nearly as bad as some of the above, and they are more well known that Marciano.

Check this out, Floyd Patterson was 21 years younger than Archie Moore and Archie KOed him by the fifth round. This happened after Marciano KOed Archie Moore.

http://www.fighttoys.com/Moore%20record.htm

And it took Tyson 12 rounds, in his prime, to win a fight with James Smith by desicion. Tyson was 14 years younger than James Smith

http://www.fighttoys.com/Tyson%20record.htm
If you think winning a desicion over James Smith, who the hell is that, with a 14 year age difference is more impressive than KOing a man 10 years older than you that has gone down in history as one of the finest men in boxing you are the most biased person on these boards.


in 1969 Marciano had an exhibition match when at 46 years old with a much younger Muhammad Ali who had was already established himself as the greatest. The 46 year old Marciano beat Ali. You can argue the computer was wrong, we all know computers are unreliable.
http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Arena/1047/alirock.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Arena/1047//alirock.html


Punching power


How could a 5'10 185lb man be so powerful? He was simply the most conditioned fighter to ever enter the ring. Noone will argue with you on that one. He was 185lbs but more powerful than most 200+lb punchers. :boxing: :boxing:
http://www.terra.es/personal3/r3198r/rockymarciano.jpg



Joe Louis was too old and washed up.
A lot of them guys were old. Archie
Moore was a light heavyweight. the
funny thing about archie moore is even
though he was too old and a lightheavyweight
he still knocked Rocky Slopiano down. And read
the history books the ref gave Slopiano a 8 count
to recover which was a controversy cuz he was not
supposd to do that in the rules for that fight.
if the ref did not cheat for Slopiano Archie moore
would have won that fight. Slopiano knew it too
that why the bum retired after this fight cuz
Archie almost beat him but that ref gave slopiano
a break, Slopiano is a overated bum. He Beat old men
and lightheavyweights.

hellfire508
06-23-2006, 12:02 PM
God everytime I read the initial post I laugh.

"Didnt fight anyone special? Rocky Marciano has one of the most impressive resumes in any divisions history." -- Bull****. There are tens, and tens of fighters that have better resumes. Harry Greb, Muhammad Ali, Ezzard Charles, Sam Langford, Benny Leonard, Ray Leonard, Emile Griffith, Jimmy McLarrin, Henry Armstrong, Ray Robinson, Archie Moore, Barney Ross, Lou Ambers, Sam Angott... the list goes on. Their resumes are brilliant.

-Archie Moore -------------- Recognized as top 5 -- top 5 what? P4P? By some perhaps, not by me. P4P has little bearing on how great a win is for a fighter. Moore was old against Marciano, he was definately prime at LHW, where he was brilliant.

-"Jersey" Joe Walcott twice - One of the top 10 - Top 10 what? Heavyweights? ROFL! No. Personally, I rank him 15th. Marciano beat him in his last two fights, after Walcott had been fighting for 23 years.

-Joe Louis ------------------ Recognized as best boxer in history -- Really? Since when? Last time I checked, the seemingly unanimous general conception was that Robinson was the best? I have Louis outside the top 10. Plus, Louis was just a shell of his former great self. A solid contender at that time, nothing more.

-Phil Muscato
-Freddie Beshore - these two mean what?

[I]-Harry "Kid" Matthews - Nothing brilliant.

-Ezzard Charles (Twice) - Excellent fighter, but best weight was 175. Still, excellent fighter.

-Roland LaStanza (Twice) --- One of the top five chins in history -- Is this a joke? Where do you pull these "facts"? Cobb, Chuvalo, McCall, Ali, Chavez, Hagler, Monzon, Lamotta....

Nice facts.

hellfire508
06-23-2006, 12:05 PM
***NOTE: I just read my post, and it came across a little harsh. Marciano's resume is excellent, no doubt. A great resume. Just not as great as this tool was making out.

Mike Tyson77
06-23-2006, 12:37 PM
49-0



And 1!

micky_knox
06-23-2006, 12:47 PM
nobody can argue with a perfect record...........not one single person........
its ludicrous to even suggest rocky wasnt a great fighter

Mike Tyson77
06-23-2006, 01:11 PM
nobody can argue with a perfect record...........not one single person........
its ludicrous to even suggest rocky wasnt a great fighter


Thank you brother! Rocky isnt my #1 favorite fighter, but I dont deny his greatness.

platinummatt
06-23-2006, 01:13 PM
He seemed to have a very consistent style, sending out continuous single punches, did he throw many combos? its got to be annoying having a fighter who never steps away and is always throwing single shots at you. Its probably a good way for him to reserve energy too

micky_knox
06-23-2006, 01:23 PM
Thank you brother! Rocky isnt my #1 favorite fighter, but I dont deny his greatness.

np m8

he isnt my favorite either but i think its damn disrespectful to try and say he wasnt great.....nobody could beat him....what more can you ask from the guy?
larry holmes cryed like a baby when he couldnt beat the rocks record and it seems a lot of people here feel the same.........rockys record will stand for a long time

RockyMarcianofan00
06-23-2006, 01:48 PM
Marciano was a great fighter easily top10
for many top5
for a few top3

Marciano wasn't tested to his full capability, plain and simple...You can say what you want about Marciano's opponents but none of them really FAIRLY had him beat....

His toughest fight was probably Walcott I and Walcott was doing well, Walcott was a very hard hitter, quick, and good footwork...This was also a prime Walcott fighting...They were relatively even (I had Walcott ahead by 2 rounds or so going into the 6th round)...Then Rocky got something in his eyes, Rocky fought completely blind for 4 rounds...He did relatively good for being blind but not near as good as he could have. After this Walcott was ahead on points by a great margin (about 6 rounds)..So Marciano Knocked him out....

Marciano didn't fight an age where good fighters were in great supply like 40's or 60's and 70's...Alot of old fighters were getting up in age, though still dangerous not as good as they once were....These fighters however are not to be counted out they were still dangerous and very good fighters...

Guys Rocky fought in there prime-
Jersey Joe Walcott
Roland Lastarza
Rex Layne
and I'd venture to say Don ****ell....

Other fighters who were "past there prime" but still very good contenders-

Joe Louis- only lost once during his comeback besides Marciano (Ezzard Charles)

Ezzard Charles- He wasn't "Prime" but he sure wasn't far off it, he still had plenty of gas to fight and his skills were still that of his previous self.....

Archie Moore-Possibley the greatest light heavyweight of all time- he also has the most KO's of anyone in any weight class. He wasn't prime when he fought Marciano but trust me he was far from over the hill...Moore would go on to fight for almost ten more years and only losing three times more and drawing two times...He was prime as a light heavy but as a Heavy he was more then dangerous...

What do you want from the guy..He fought everybody they put in front of him and never lost...Not many people could have done that put in Rocky's shoes-

Some of his Handicaps that other fighters didn't have-
He didn't even start training to be a boxer until he was 20

Before boxing he was a heavy smoker and overweight

He only had 12 amateur fights before being thrown into the Professional circuit most fighters have more then 30...

Marciano was aware that since August 1949, he fought with a ruptured disc in his back. Since 1951 he suffered from an arthritic right elbow. The condition left his right arm slightly shorter than his left. This all eventually led to his retirement in 1956.

so many fighters under these conditions (yes including Muhammad Ali) would not have gone 49-0...

Dempsey 1919
06-23-2006, 03:19 PM
I'd say 5 but w.e

I can't name any that put in Marciano's shoes would have been 49-0

I mean the guy was 8-4 as an amateur- Ali was 100-1

I mean Ali had alot longer then Marciano to develop his skills...As did many others, and on top of that Marciano didn't even box until he was in his 20's, and before he began he was overweight and a heavy smoker so...

Clay lost 8 fights as an amateur.

micky_knox
06-23-2006, 04:08 PM
Marciano was a great fighter easily top10
for many top5
for a few top3

..
top 4

no order

rock
ali
louis
tyson

Hard Boiled HK
06-23-2006, 04:43 PM
Marciano is #6 on my list.

Hard Boiled HK
06-23-2006, 09:43 PM
Here is George Foreman's List of Top 10 Heavyweights:

1. Joe Louis.
To be honest with you, number two is way off. Joe Louis is in a
class by himself.
2. Rocky Marciano.
Just look at Rocky Marciano's record. Nobody beat him. You can't
take that from him.
3. Jack Johnson.
A big brave cat, because he'd do whatever he wanted and get out of
the way.
4. Muhammad Ali.
Put him down as the GREATEST MAN to ever box, and a hero
bigger than boxing. Once Ali lost his speed, it only showed that
he'd never developed a great defense.
5. Joe Frazier.
Only because he depended solely on his left hook do I rate Joe
Frazier below Marciano. Marciano could hit with both hands.
6. Jack Dempsy.
Jack Dempsy's very name means strength and courage. Other than
Joe Louis, there is not a name in boxing or in sports with more
meaning.
7. Mike Tyson.
A phenomenon. What Mike Tyson was able to do with his speed of
hand and punching power is as phenomenal as what Muhammad
Ali did when he was Cassius Clay with speed of feet. Tyson
deserves to be in the top ten; this is where I put him, the
youngest man to become Heavyweight Champion of the World.
8. Sonny Liston.
If Sonny Liston truly had not lost his cool, had not underestimated a young Cassius Clay; and kept the same mind set that he had as a contender, history would have been a lot kinder to him. Sonny Liston could not believe Muhammad Ali was so fast and had so much courage. It just made him fall apart.
9. Floyd Patterson.
The First Two-Time Heavyweight Champion of the World.
10. Evander Holyfield.
For standing up to Mike Tyson


As you see, I didn't make the list...

The first time around, George Foreman was too mean and too crude.

The second time around, too sophisticated and too publicity conscious to
exploit his power...

Honorable Mention (Alphabetically ordered)

* Max Baer
* Ezzard Charles
* Jersey Joe Walcott

it's all from http://www.georgeforeman.com/puncherpages/top10.htm

hellfire508
06-23-2006, 10:05 PM
I have Marciano fourth.

Mike Tyson77
06-25-2006, 01:08 PM
np m8

he isnt my favorite either but i think its damn disrespectful to try and say he wasnt great.....nobody could beat him....what more can you ask from the guy?
larry holmes cryed like a baby when he couldnt beat the rocks record and it seems a lot of people here feel the same.........rockys record will stand for a long time

A K for you.

Someone with some sense around here.


But sadly, it is endanger of being broken. By a 7 foot 320 pound Russian. We all know who he is, and he's 44-0. He's never been knocked down or hurt. But he hasnt fought tough foes like Marciano. If he keeps fighting people like Owen Beck, he might break it.

hellfire508
06-26-2006, 05:50 AM
And he's only a belt holder, so it don't mean ****.

micky_knox
06-26-2006, 12:01 PM
A K for you.

Someone with some sense around here.


But sadly, it is endanger of being broken. By a 7 foot 320 pound Russian. We all know who he is, and he's 44-0. He's never been knocked down or hurt. But he hasnt fought tough foes like Marciano. If he keeps fighting people like Owen Beck, he might break it.
thanks man

damn i didnt realise he was 44-0

still now he will have to step up in opposition so he will get beat sooner or later.........
and he isnt regared as the true champ like rocky was

Hard Boiled HK
06-27-2006, 09:26 PM
That guy is hard to beat though. I don't think Ali could beat him.

Southpaw Stinger
06-27-2006, 09:44 PM
That guy is hard to beat though. I don't think Ali could beat him.

What? Larry Donald was schooling him! Ali would kill him!

RockyMarcianofan00
06-27-2006, 10:11 PM
what you got to think about is somebody that monsterously big is always going to have the advantage...True if he were closer to a normal 6'3 or 6'2 he would probably be like 40-4 or something like that but Height is something that helped Lennox Lewis alot too...though I think Lewis had much more skill then Valuev...

According to Boxrec.com though Calvin Brock is the #1 contender (Valuev is 2 and Klitchko is 3)

leff
06-28-2006, 05:40 AM
That guy is hard to beat though. I don't think Ali could beat him.

uuuuuuuuuuuum he was outboxed by donald and had a very close fight with ruiz and you think ali could not have beaten him :rolleyes:

Dempsey 1919
06-28-2006, 07:05 PM
Ali would ko him in 4. :rolleyes:

RockyMarcianofan00
06-29-2006, 12:36 AM
Ali would ko him in 4. :rolleyes:
More like TKO in 6 because Ali was fast and would land alot on him but his jab would be able to play the key in HOW long it would take to beat him...Ali TKO Valuev in 6

the traveler
07-13-2006, 06:32 PM
I find this thread ironic. It's littered with opinions, yet the thread poster tries to pass them off as facts. As if someone saying that Rocky was hard to hit somehow is a fact of his greatness.

LOL at the he beat Ali by a computer match statement. Another pathetic attempt by whites to claim superiority. Hey, here's an idea, no one fight, let's determine winners by computer matches.

Also, the bit about age differences is useless because it still doesn't determine if the opponent was at the prime of their careers when they fought.

I could go through the chins of the fighters that Marciano and Foreman knocked out in their first 49 fights and find out who ACTUALLY fought the harder chins, but I have a life, I'm not as pathetic as Hous. This is one of hte most pathetic threads that I've ever seen. I love how he kept brining up the computer match, though-- classic.

Brockton Lip
07-13-2006, 07:23 PM
Another pathetic attempt by whites to claim superiority.

Enough of this race crap; nobody is buying into it.

the traveler
07-13-2006, 07:29 PM
I'm not saying that all whites think like this, but you'd have to be a ****in moronic, naive individual to not think that there are people out there that were racially motivated.

People will believe whatever they want. It just seems that when you're part of the antagonist, everything that everyone says againt you is some unbelievable and ubsurd lie.

RockyMarcianofan00
07-14-2006, 12:21 AM
Enough of this race crap; nobody is buying into it.
Your right
When people call you a racist its just a cop out because they dont' have an argument...The best is when the two people are of the same race and they can't call you a racist...

I respect people for making a valid point that will be a good argument...I can tell you plenty of times people have presented a valid case and changed my opinions likewise never has someone called me a racist and changed my opinion...

Dempsey 1919
07-14-2006, 12:49 AM
I find this thread ironic. It's littered with opinions, yet the thread poster tries to pass them off as facts. As if someone saying that Rocky was hard to hit somehow is a fact of his greatness.

LOL at the he beat Ali by a computer match statement. Another pathetic attempt by whites to claim superiority. Hey, here's an idea, no one fight, let's determine winners by computer matches.

Also, the bit about age differences is useless because it still doesn't determine if the opponent was at the prime of their careers when they fought.

I could go through the chins of the fighters that Marciano and Foreman knocked out in their first 49 fights and find out who ACTUALLY fought the harder chins, but I have a life, I'm not as pathetic as Hous. This is one of hte most pathetic threads that I've ever seen. I love how he kept brining up the computer match, though-- classic.

Nice post.

RockyMarcianofan00
07-14-2006, 12:54 AM
Nice post.
What about my post wasn't mine nice :guilty:
Considering your one of the people that when you don't cop oout can change my opinion...sometimes...

Hous
07-14-2006, 01:05 AM
I find this thread ironic. It's littered with opinions, yet the thread poster tries to pass them off as facts. As if someone saying that Rocky was hard to hit somehow is a fact of his greatness.

LOL at the he beat Ali by a computer match statement. Another pathetic attempt by whites to claim superiority. Hey, here's an idea, no one fight, let's determine winners by computer matches.

Also, the bit about age differences is useless because it still doesn't determine if the opponent was at the prime of their careers when they fought.

I could go through the chins of the fighters that Marciano and Foreman knocked out in their first 49 fights and find out who ACTUALLY fought the harder chins, but I have a life, I'm not as pathetic as Hous. This is one of hte most pathetic threads that I've ever seen. I love how he kept brining up the computer match, though-- classic.

LOL your mad because you lost an arguement, thats why you try to get personal. Thats what is really pathetic.

And its all fact, notice how I have links and it is all documented? Its not hearsay its simple compare and contrast. And I never tried to pass off Marciano as the superior fighter over Ali. Thats just you getting personal because you have nothing.

The opinions were quoted from the likes of Joe Louis, George Foreman, and Joe Frazier. Yes sir expert opinions.

RockyMarcianofan00
07-14-2006, 01:07 AM
LOL your mad because you lost an arguement, thats why you try to get personal. Thats what is really pathetic.

And its all fact, notice how I have links and it is all documented? Its not hearsay its simple compare and contrast. And I never tried to pass off Marciano as the superior fighter over Ali. Thats just you getting personal because you have nothing.

The opinions were quoted from the likes of Joe Louis, George Foreman, and Joe Frazier. Yes sir expert opinions.
True that :D

micky_knox
07-14-2006, 01:11 AM
Enough of this race crap; nobody is buying into it.
yea im sick of reading crap like that

Dempsey 1919
07-14-2006, 01:17 AM
More like TKO in 6 because Ali was fast and would land alot on him but his jab would be able to play the key in HOW long it would take to beat him...Ali TKO Valuev in 6

My point is some people on here are racially motivated, even though they deny it, and they are somewhat subtle. Not you, but others.

Hous
07-14-2006, 01:19 AM
My point is some people on here are racially motivated, even though they deny it, and they are somewhat subtle. Not you, but others.

Who would that be Butterfly?

Dempsey 1919
07-14-2006, 02:19 AM
Who would that be Butterfly?

I'm not mentioning any names.

the traveler
07-14-2006, 04:39 PM
LOL your mad because you lost an arguement, thats why you try to get personal. Thats what is really pathetic.

And its all fact, notice how I have links and it is all documented? Its not hearsay its simple compare and contrast. And I never tried to pass off Marciano as the superior fighter over Ali. Thats just you getting personal because you have nothing.

The opinions were quoted from the likes of Joe Louis, George Foreman, and Joe Frazier. Yes sir expert opinions.


Lost what argument? What facts? Where in your first post did you back up anything with facts? You posted some links of people's opinions and posted some age differences, but that doesn't mean **** because they're viewed by opinions. What was the ****ing purpose of this thread? To show that Marciano is a great fighter? How in the hell can you prove this with facts? Everything that you posted is ambiguious. Since when did the likes of Foreman and Frazier suddenly become expert opinions? As far as I can recall, these guys are boxers not analyst. Ohh, George Foreman also supposedly said that a prime Mike Tyson would beat him, Joe Frazier, and Ali; are we supposed to somehow take that opinion to heart because is came from a guy who couldn't even finish school?

You never tried to pass him off as the superior fighter to Ali, no, you just posted the fact that he beat him in a computer match several times in your thread like it means anything at all.

The argument that we had before was who had the more impressive first 49 matches of their career-- Foreman or the Rock. All you did was name a few names and say that the Rock's ko streak in his first 49 was more impressive. That's far from what I'd call a great breakdown.

In order to find out who had the more impressive ko number through 49, you'd have to look at everyone that they ko'd. Then you'd have to look at everyone that ko'd them to judge their chins. And then you'd have look at every single person that they fought to see if they were hard hitters, and then you'd have to check who those people fought to honestly judge their power... it could keep going on and on.. until you do that, you haven't proven ****. So, stfu.

micky_knox
07-14-2006, 05:48 PM
i think that foreman and fraizer know exactly what they are talking about........


maricano was a great...live with it

JMCbulls
07-14-2006, 05:57 PM
i think that foreman and fraizer know exactly what they are talking about........


maricano was a great...live with it


put perfectly

good k

nikibilly
07-15-2006, 05:25 PM
Rock Marciano was a good fighter. Joe Louis is used as example for your argument, but wasn't he old, and hadn't he retired before that fight. And, i heard that he was well past his prime so to use him as your defence seems oddly strange - Louis was a humble guy and if i got beat by a guy i would have to admit he was good, otherwise saying you are rubbish makes me look bad as a boxer.

I can't discount his fights with Archie Moore or some of the other known legends that you list and 49-0-0 is a fantastic record but like you wrote his fighting style was sloppy, he probably could take you and me in a street fight - but for me he didnt have the style nor grace that other fighters had like Ali or even Frazier when he used to bob and weave.

My opinion is that he was a good fighter, good record but when you think of someone special you think of Muhammad Ali - simply for what he could do - knock people out with ONLY his jabs most of the time, his handspeed was devasting thats what made so special, that and footwork.

For me, standing toe-to-toe with a guy until one gets knocked out like jack dempsey would do isnt special in my eyes.

Sorry, but thats my opinion, i actually have his fight against Ezzard Charles, i'm not a great fan of Marciano so i dont know if he had a couple of fights or a trilogy but half-way through it didnt thrill me.

Great post anyway.

micky_knox
07-15-2006, 05:42 PM
Rock Marciano was a good fighter. Joe Louis is used as example for your argument, but wasn't he old, and hadn't he retired before that fight. And, i heard that he was well past his prime so to use him as your defence seems oddly strange - Louis was a humble guy and if i got beat by a guy i would have to admit he was good, otherwise saying you are rubbish makes me look bad as a boxer.

I can't discount his fights with Archie Moore or some of the other known legends that you list and 49-0-0 is a fantastic record but like you wrote his fighting style was sloppy, he probably could take you and me in a street fight - but for me he didnt have the style nor grace that other fighters had like Ali or even Frazier when he used to bob and weave.

My opinion is that he was a good fighter, good record but when you think of someone special you think of Muhammad Ali - simply for what he could do - knock people out with ONLY his jabs most of the time, his handspeed was devasting thats what made so special, that and footwork.

For me, standing toe-to-toe with a guy until one gets knocked out like jack dempsey would do isnt special in my eyes.

Sorry, but thats my opinion, i actually have his fight against Ezzard Charles, i'm not a great fan of Marciano so i dont know if he had a couple of fights or a trilogy but half-way through it didnt thrill me.

Great post anyway.
thats a good post

but i disagree rocky was a great fighter.........
i dont care if you dance and jab or slug it out.........it is the result that counts...........and rocky got every result.....

Kid Achilles
07-15-2006, 05:51 PM
he probably could take you and me in a street fight - but for me he didnt have the style nor grace that other fighters had like Ali or even Frazier when he used to bob and weave.

Kinda like saying the sun would "probably" burn you if you landed on it.

micky_knox
07-15-2006, 05:56 PM
it stun's me that anybody could even think about doubting the rock

Hous
07-15-2006, 05:59 PM
I'm not mentioning any names.

Well its clear your hinting out me because im topic creator, who the **** are you to tell me my ethnic background? You have no idea what my ethnic origins are so stfu.

I think its exactly the opposite of what you make it out to be. :rolleyes:

micky_knox
07-15-2006, 06:09 PM
Well its clear your hinting out me because im topic creator, who the **** are you to tell me my ethnic background? You have no idea what my ethnic origins are so stfu.

I think its exactly the opposite of what you make it out to be. :rolleyes:
ethnic origins

i see it this this way...........some black guys hate the fact that a white guy was so good.......
i find this amuzing.............its about boxing not colour... :boxing: get with the program,and put colour aside

Kid Achilles
07-15-2006, 06:09 PM
Most people who've seen his fights and still doubt him do so because he wasn't the smoothest performer around. Louis and Ali were much more stylish and fluid in their movements while Marciano didn't look so great doing what he did. The thing is, boxing above everything else is about imposing your will on your opponent and that's what Marciano did successfully 49 times out of 49 fights, against the best heavyweights in the world at the time. All of those guys were skilled athletes training their asses off, and they lived at a time when boxing was a bigger and more competitive sport than it is today. People who knock his competition usually just look at the weights, true they were smaller on average than modern heavies, but skillwise those guys were many notches above the current crop. Charles, Walcott, Layne, Moore, Matthews, LaStarza, ****ell etc. were all world class pros and Marciano took them all out.

Comparing eras in boxing is a very subjective exercise and you'll always have arguments when attempting it. Many people think the 1970's were the golden years for the heavyweights but there were plenty of knowledgeable boxing people who lived at the time who thought it was a lousy time for boxing. It's hard to agree on wha eras were truly "better" than others but one thing that isn't open to debate is Marciano's record, 49-0. Never lost, never fought to a draw. Completely unblemished.

Toddy
07-15-2006, 06:19 PM
ethnic origins

i see it this this way...........some black guys hate the fact that a white guy was so good.......
i find this amuzing.............its about boxing not colour... :boxing: get with the program,and put colour aside

very well put!

Southpaw Stinger
07-15-2006, 06:21 PM
ethnic origins

i see it this this way...........some black guys hate the fact that a white guy was so good.......
i find this amuzing.............its about boxing not colour... get with the program,and put colour aside

Well said man.

RockyMarcianofan00
07-15-2006, 07:45 PM
Most people who've seen his fights and still doubt him do so because he wasn't the smoothest performer around. Louis and Ali were much more stylish and fluid in their movements while Marciano didn't look so great doing what he did. The thing is, boxing above everything else is about imposing your will on your opponent and that's what Marciano did successfully 49 times out of 49 fights, against the best heavyweights in the world at the time. All of those guys were skilled athletes training their asses off, and they lived at a time when boxing was a bigger and more competitive sport than it is today. People who knock his competition usually just look at the weights, true they were smaller on average than modern heavies, but skillwise those guys were many notches above the current crop. Charles, Walcott, Layne, Moore, Matthews, LaStarza, ****ell etc. were all world class pros and Marciano took them all out.

Comparing eras in boxing is a very subjective exercise and you'll always have arguments when attempting it. Many people think the 1970's were the golden years for the heavyweights but there were plenty of knowledgeable boxing people who lived at the time who thought it was a lousy time for boxing. It's hard to agree on wha eras were truly "better" than others but one thing that isn't open to debate is Marciano's record, 49-0. Never lost, never fought to a draw. Completely unblemished.


ethnic origins

i see it this this way...........some black guys hate the fact that a white guy was so good.......
i find this amuzing.............its about boxing not colour... :boxing: get with the program,and put colour aside

Both very well put :boxing:

Hard Boiled HK
07-15-2006, 07:57 PM
To be honest, I think in our generation (I'm not talking about the OLDER generation) the fans of Marciano did not choose him because he was white. They are also not disrespecting Ali, Frazier, Foreman, etc. They simply have their favorite, and you cannot use race against them for that. When was the last time they say something like "you like Ali becuause you're black" to an Ali fan who happened to be African American? As long as you are true to boxing, and not favor one boxer over another simply because of race, then you are fine. But if you say something like "Marciano was the best and Ali was a bum" then that's pure racial hate.

RockyMarcianofan00
07-15-2006, 08:15 PM
To be honest, I think in our generation (I'm not talking about the OLDER generation) the fans of Marciano did not choose him because he was white. They are also not disrespecting Ali, Frazier, Foreman, etc. They simply have their favorite, and you cannot use race against them for that. When was the last time they say something like "you like Ali becuause you're black" to an Ali fan who happened to be African American? As long as you are true to boxing, and not favor one boxer over another simply because of race, then you are fine. But if you say something like "Marciano was the best and Ali was a bum" then that's pure racial hate.
I like when people call Boxer's bums only because it reminds me of Paulie from Rocky and it makes me laugh-

"The guy's bum, no class"
"Hey Ya know Tommy your a piec'a ga'bage"

Hard Boiled HK
07-15-2006, 09:16 PM
I like when people call Boxer's bums only because it reminds me of Paulie from Rocky and it makes me laugh-

"The guy's bum, no class"
"Hey Ya know Tommy your a piec'a ga'bage"

Well you know what I mean, right?

Stuff like:

"Ali is nothing"
"Marciano is trash"
etc.

Yaman
07-15-2006, 09:40 PM
I love Marciano because he was a great fighter and man. Not because of his race. It is completely false that people who put him as the greatest are racists.

RockyMarcianofan00
07-15-2006, 10:53 PM
Well you know what I mean, right?

Stuff like:

"Ali is nothing"
"Marciano is trash"
etc.
No when people are like SO and SO is a bum

doesn't make them a bum just reminds me of paulie and I get a good laugh, not only at peoples ignorance (most of the time) but reminds me of Paulie...

Hous
07-16-2006, 03:21 AM
ethnic origins

i see it this this way...........some black guys hate the fact that a white guy was so good.......
i find this amuzing.............its about boxing not colour... :boxing: get with the program,and put colour aside

Exactly, he accuses me of putting Marciano in top 10 because he thinks Im some white racist. Color wasn't even brought up til he said that and he doesn't know of my Middel Eastern background or my Native American background.

That just goes to show you how he thinks.

the traveler
07-16-2006, 04:16 PM
It's not that blacks hate him because he was white and was so skilled, blacks have just developed a paranoia through history because they feel like they get overlooked, and that the accomplishments of whites are often mentioned first before the accomplishemtns of blacks in the media. So when someone white comes along and he/she is praised a lot ahead of blacks doing the same thing, they start to question the true reasons behind the accolades that many throw at the white. It angers them. Whether it's right or wrong, they almost involuntarily feel wronged.

Hard Boiled HK
07-16-2006, 08:36 PM
Exactly, he accuses me of putting Marciano in top 10 because he thinks Im some white racist. Color wasn't even brought up til he said that and he doesn't know of my Middel Eastern background or my Native American background.

That just goes to show you how he thinks.

Relax buddy, I don't think anyone is accusing anyone of anything. He was simply saying that unforturnately sometimes people do get race involve. He's not saying you are, but some people do.

micky_knox
07-17-2006, 07:04 AM
It's not that blacks hate him because he was white and was so skilled, blacks have just developed a paranoia through history because they feel like they get overlooked, and that the accomplishments of whites are often mentioned first before the accomplishemtns of blacks in the media. So when someone white comes along and he/she is praised a lot ahead of blacks doing the same thing, they start to question the true reasons behind the accolades that many throw at the white. It angers them. Whether it's right or wrong, they almost involuntarily feel wronged.
its a shame some people feel that way.......its gets in the way of some good discussions.....

hell im white and i idolised tyson when i was a kid.........still do in a lesser fashion now.
nigel benn,micheal watson,chris eubank.......i always cheered them all on.......i never look at colour when watching boxing.....

RockyMarcianofan00
07-17-2006, 08:25 AM
its a shame some people feel that way.......its gets in the way of some good discussions.....

hell im white and i idolised tyson when i was a kid.........still do in a lesser fashion now.
nigel benn,micheal watson,chris eubank.......i always cheered them all on.......i never look at colour when watching boxing.....
Same here I like tons of black fighters maybe more black fighters then white fighters..

I like Joe Frazier, George Foreman, Joe Louis, Mike Tyson, Evander Holyfeild, and the list goes on...

micky_knox
07-17-2006, 08:28 AM
me too..........i have way more black fighter i like than white.....

i would have listed more but like you said we would be here all day

Yaman
07-17-2006, 08:30 AM
http://www.doghouseboxing.com/Media/Rocky_Marciano_BIG.jpg

One of the greatest fighters ever lived.

The Raging Bull
07-17-2006, 08:35 AM
You got that right Yaman. He was ONE of the greatest fighters ever. There everything is settled ;)

Hard Boiled HK
07-17-2006, 08:38 PM
i never look at colour when watching boxing.....

I never take into consideration the color of one's skin while watching anything.

Toddy
07-17-2006, 09:34 PM
superb choice of words "hard boiled hk" and "micky_knox"

hellfire508
07-18-2006, 05:15 AM
My favourite fighters are predominately white, though I never realised it until I was reading recent posts in this thread. Tszyu, De La Hoya, Morales and Gatti are all white or hispanic. However, my favourite fighter hands down, Muhammad Ali, is black. Plus Ray Leonard and Ray Robinson who are up there, come after the others, so its all good. But the thing is I would never even think of that until people brought it to my attention. Fighters shouldn't be judged by colour.

Nonetheless, Mexican fighters are probably my favourite - for their style. Hell-for-leather, never give in. Of course, there are plenty of these guys from other races, but it seems to be the a "true" Mexican fighter must be, if that makes sense.

I am Australian BTW, so no bias.

RockyMarcianofan00
07-18-2006, 02:56 PM
http://www.doghouseboxing.com/Media/Rocky_Marciano_BIG.jpg

One of the greatest fighters ever lived.
yep :D......

Hard Boiled HK
07-19-2006, 08:04 PM
superb choice of words "hard boiled hk" and "micky_knox"

Why, thank you.