View Full Version : Question about Rocky


King Koyle
04-29-2006, 02:19 PM
Do you guys consider Rocky Marciano an all time great?
Because the fact that he retired undefeated and beat
everyone that was in the heavyweight division at
the time.Never ducking anyone.Or do you not think he is
an all time great because the heavyweights around at the
time were kinda weak?

Brockton Lip
04-29-2006, 02:40 PM
1. Muhammad Ali
2. Rocky Marciano
3. Joe Louis

^Not in order. But any order of those top 3 heavyweights is acceptable in my opinion.

Hous
04-29-2006, 04:22 PM
Marciano is undoubtly in the top 5 boxers of all time, he beat Joe louis, Jersey Joe walcott, Archie Moore, and other legends of boxing. The only counter Marciano haters have is that he fought old men, but I have already slammed that arguement into their faces. Marcianos age difference with Joe Louis and walcott was less than most other legends fights. For instance Ali fought with a 11 year age difference when he captured the belt, and Floyd Patterson had more troube with Archie Moore who was 22 years older.

sleazyfellow
04-29-2006, 06:20 PM
hes in the top ten of most ppls list...hes pretty good but ppl seem to base this only on career acomplishments moreso than who he fought, he just came around at the right time during the back end of many fighters careers, only a few were good. but i rate him prolly 7-8th in the top ten..

Southpaw Stinger
04-29-2006, 06:21 PM
Ali fought with a 11 year age difference when he captured the belt,

Ali was also older than Frazier and Foreman.

RockyMarcianofan00
04-29-2006, 06:52 PM
Marciano's definitely top5 and for me at least top 3, i rate him with guys like Louis, Dempsey etc

but regardless Joe Louis is #1

IMO Joe Louis is the best all around fighter ever

Jenks88
04-29-2006, 08:00 PM
For his determination and work ethic Marciano is one of my favorite fighters of all time. However, I don't think he ever got the opportunity to prove whether or not he was a great fighter. In my mind, to be a great fighter you've either got to beat great fighters or be dominant for a really long time. Marciano proved himself to be a very good fighter, but not great. The best guys he beat ranged from good to very good. Ezzard Charles was great in his prime, and though still a very good fighter, he was over the hill when he fought Marciano. Some guy decisioned him twice the year before he fought Marciano. Jersey Joe I don't think was ever a great fighter, though he too was very good. Moore was amazing for a 42 year old, but he was slipping by the time he fought Marciano.
I don't discredit Marciano for losing to LaStarza the first time and Tiger Ted Lowry at least once, because he was still developing at that point. Lennox Lewis lost to mediocre fighters, and Ali should have lost to Young, Norton the 3rd time, and maybe gotten a draw against Banks. If Marciano had not retired and had gone on to beat Patterson and Johannson I might consider him great, and if he beat Liston I would definetly consider him great.
Regardless, I think Marciano is an inspirational guy and he's definetly one of my fav. fighters.

SuzieQ49
04-29-2006, 09:19 PM
I don't discredit Marciano for losing to LaStarza the first time and Tiger Ted Lowry at least once,


marciano did not lose those fights, u have never seen the tape nor will u ever will. reports go both ways on the lastarza fight.


rocky unquestionably won the ted lowry fight, thats all lowry did was fight to survive. u dont win a fight that way.


Some guy decisioned him twice the year before he fought Marciano.


ezzard charles was robbed vs harold johnson in 1953





Moore was amazing for a 42 year old, but he was slipping by the time he fought Marciano.


moore was actually 38, and he wasnt slipping when he fought marciano. moore was 45-1 in his last 46 fights prior to fighting marciano. after the marciano fight, moore went 28-2.

RockyMarcianofan00
04-29-2006, 10:14 PM
marciano did not lose those fights, u have never seen the tape nor will u ever will. reports go both ways on the lastarza fight.


rocky unquestionably won the ted lowry fight, thats all lowry did was fight to survive. u dont win a fight that way.





ezzard charles was robbed vs harold johnson in 1953








moore was actually 38, and he wasnt slipping when he fought marciano. moore was 45-1 in his last 46 fights prior to fighting marciano. after the marciano fight, moore went 28-2.
ya know i was gunna correct him but you beat me to the punch

:D

M26
04-30-2006, 05:40 AM
Do you guys consider Rocky Marciano an all time great?
Because the fact that he retired undefeated and beat
everyone that was in the heavyweight division at
the time.Never ducking anyone.Or do you not think he is
an all time great because the heavyweights around at the
time were kinda weak?

Yes, Rocky Marciano was definitely an all time great!

Southpaw Stinger
04-30-2006, 06:22 AM
He's an all time great. He's not in the top 5 but definatly in the top 10.

Dempsey 1919
05-01-2006, 02:40 AM
He's an all time great. He's not in the top 5 but definatly in the top 10.

i would put marciano in the top 20, he doesn't deserve to be top 10.

Frazier's 15th round
05-01-2006, 03:13 AM
You'll find that Ali and Louis fans go into panic mode when Marciano gets mentioned. I think that's all you need to look at.

Brockton Lip
05-01-2006, 08:27 AM
You'll find that Ali and Louis fans go into panic mode when Marciano gets mentioned. I think that's all you need to look at.

lol yep. I'm the rare breed and have Ali and Marciano as my favorites fighterx.

King Koyle
05-01-2006, 09:44 AM
I agree with almost all of these comments.Im sorry to ask such
a stupid question,but I was just settling an arguement with a
poster from another topic.

RockyMarcianofan00
05-01-2006, 03:14 PM
You'll find that Ali and Louis fans go into panic mode when Marciano gets mentioned. I think that's all you need to look at.
more ali fans then Louis fans, Louis fans usually like Marciano because Marciano respected Louis.

Marciano top5

SuzieQ49
05-02-2006, 11:37 PM
more ali fans then Louis fans, Louis fans usually like Marciano because Marciano respected Louis.

Marciano top5

marciano respected ali alot too. they became good freinds during the computer filming in 1969

Boxclever
05-03-2006, 07:32 AM
all time great of course he is. :boxing:

jason100x
05-03-2006, 08:38 AM
I think he's an time great. He beat some really good people, (one of my favorites Archie Moore). He contributed to Joe Louis's retirement (yes, Joe was faded from his prime but he still only had two losses before fighting Rocky).

Heckler
05-03-2006, 09:11 AM
Rocky Marciano is definately is a top 3 favourite fighter of mine, but top 3 greatest? Definately not. 'show me a fighter that hasn't lost and ill show you one that hasn't fought anybody'- I think that quote applied to Marciano would be an exaggeration, but gets the point across. He was dominant and undefeated but in an era that was a slump in boxing history. The only names i think are worth Mention are Ezzard, Walcott, Moore, Louis. Louis was a shadow of his former self, Ezzard was declining and a natural light heavyweight, Moore in his forties, a natural light heavyweight and also declining, then we have Walcott... Walcott like Lennox actually got better with age, i cannot discredit Marcianos win over Walcott. Walcott was solid ring technican, but rarely considered a top 10 great. Because of his lack of competition i put the rock at either 5 or 6.

Boxclever
05-03-2006, 09:19 AM
Rocky Marciano is definately is a top 3 favourite fighter of mine, but top 3 greatest? Definately not. 'show me a fighter that hasn't lost and ill show you one that hasn't fought anybody'- I think that quote applied to Marciano would be an exaggeration, but gets the point across. He was dominant and undefeated but in an era that was a slump in boxing history. The only names i think are worth Mention are Ezzard, Walcott, Moore, Louis. Louis was a shadow of his former self, Ezzard was declining and a natural light heavyweight, Moore in his forties, a natural light heavyweight and also declining, then we have Walcott... Walcott like Lennox actually got better with age, i cannot discredit Marcianos win over Walcott. Walcott was solid ring technican, but rarely considered a top 10 great. Because of his lack of competition i put the rock at either 5 or 6.


but you can do no more than beat the best of your era and if you do you're a great. IMO :cool:

Dempsey 1919
05-03-2006, 12:57 PM
but you can do no more than beat the best of your era and if you do you're a great. IMO :cool:

yeah, but not top 3, lol!

Brassangel
05-03-2006, 02:00 PM
Rocky Marciano is easily a top ten heavyweight of all time, if not a top 5. Anyone who can reign undefeated when facing the top fighters of their respective era can go overlooked. He beat some guys who were tough as nails, he took beatings and always came back for more. I think that many people undervalue his era because of the lack of legendary names; this is a poor reason for downgrading him, however, as more "legends" were given such a title when boxing became more exposed to the public in the 60's and 70's. I think that Rocky could have competed in most eras.

Joe Louis even said, regardless of how old he was when he fought Rocky, that he (Marciano) was a great champion and the best fighter won that night. Joe Frazier ranks Marciano as #2 all-time, and that man knows a bit about boxing. I would place him at #5 probably.

1-2. Muhammad Ali
1-2. Joe Louis
3. Larry Holmes
4. Sonny Liston
5. Rocky Marciano
6. George Foreman
7. Jack Dempsey
8. Jack Johnson
9. Joe Frazier
10. Mike Tyson

But then, my list changes frequently... :rolleyes:

Dempsey 1919
05-03-2006, 03:11 PM
Rocky Marciano is easily a top ten heavyweight of all time, if not a top 5. Anyone who can reign undefeated when facing the top fighters of their respective era can go overlooked. He beat some guys who were tough as nails, he took beatings and always came back for more. I think that many people undervalue his era because of the lack of legendary names; this is a poor reason for downgrading him, however, as more "legends" were given such a title when boxing became more exposed to the public in the 60's and 70's. I think that Rocky could have competed in most eras.

Joe Louis even said, regardless of how old he was when he fought Rocky, that he (Marciano) was a great champion and the best fighter won that night. Joe Frazier ranks Marciano as #2 all-time, and that man knows a bit about boxing. I would place him at #5 probably.

1-2. Muhammad Ali
1-2. Joe Louis
3. Larry Holmes
4. Sonny Liston
5. Rocky Marciano
6. George Foreman
7. Jack Dempsey
8. Jack Johnson
9. Joe Frazier
10. Mike Tyson

But then, my list changes frequently... :rolleyes:

that's because marciano was frazier's favorite fighter growing up, and plus he hates ali so he won't put ali above marciano.

Yaman
05-03-2006, 03:19 PM
that's because marciano was frazier's favorite fighter growing up, and plus he hates ali so he won't put ali above marciano.

Oh yeah, that is a perfect explenation on why he puts Rocky at #2 :rolleyes:

RockyMarcianofan00
05-03-2006, 03:21 PM
that's because marciano was frazier's favorite fighter growing up, and plus he hates ali so he won't put ali above marciano.
ya know whats funny Marciano was on of Ali's favorite fighters when he was growing up

and Ali hates Frazier (respects him but hates him) and he probably doesn't put Marciano that high

so it has to do with personal opinion

Dempsey 1919
05-03-2006, 03:28 PM
Oh yeah, that is a perfect explenation on why he puts Rocky at #2 :rolleyes:

why not? it's true. frazier would put marciano high because that was his favorite fighter, and he would rank ali low cause he hated him. common sense. :rolleyes:

Kid Achilles
05-03-2006, 03:46 PM
Butterfly, you're preaching about common sense? :rolleyes:

Dempsey 1919
05-03-2006, 03:48 PM
Butterfly, you're preaching about common sense? :rolleyes:

tell me one thing i said that wasn't true. tell me one thing. frazier hates ali and likes marciano, so he would rank marciano high and rank ali low, plain and simple. this is not to hard to grasp, it's not rocket science or anything like that.

Kid Achilles
05-03-2006, 03:52 PM
The comment is in reference to your posts on this forum as a whole, not in this thread.

Dempsey 1919
05-03-2006, 03:56 PM
The comment is in reference to your posts on this forum as a whole, not in this thread.

haha, funny, but no! :mad:

rocco1252
05-03-2006, 04:08 PM
No doubt Rocky was an all time great, how anyone could say he wasnt is beyond me. Rocky was a fighter born and raised, he fought with courage and heart in every fight never dodging anyone. He may have been in with lesser opponents than what you saw in the 70's and late 60's but none the less he fought everyone that was put in front of him regardless of who they were just because thats who he was. He had an unbelievable training regime and trained hard for every opponent unlike many so called greats of today. He was the only undefeated champion in the heavyweights as well so that has to say something regardless of who he fought. And I hate to put this out there but most haters of Marciano have 2 problems the fact he was white and they cant accept the fact that one of the greatest champions of all time is white, and the fact he was unfortunately in during the down time of the heavyweight era but that wasnt his fault nor can anyone say that he was not as good as champions from other era's because we never saw him fight them. Marciano should be considered a top 10 on everyones list plain and simple and if he's not you should go watch more of his fights and stop hating.

Dempsey 1919
05-03-2006, 04:11 PM
No doubt Rocky was an all time great, how anyone could say he wasnt is beyond me. Rocky was a fighter born and raised, he fought with courage and heart in every fight never dodging anyone. He may have been in with lesser opponents than what you saw in the 70's and late 60's but none the less he fought everyone that was put in front of him regardless of who they were just because thats who he was. He had an unbelievable training regime and trained hard for every opponent unlike many so called greats of today. He was the only undefeated champion in the heavyweights as well so that has to say something regardless of who he fought. And I hate to put this out there but most haters of Marciano have 2 problems the fact he was white and they cant accept the fact that one of the greatest champions of all time is white, and the fact he was unfortunately in during the down time of the heavyweight era but that wasnt his fault nor can anyone say that he was not as good as champions from other era's because we never saw him fight them. Marciano should be considered a top 10 on everyones list plain and simple and if he's not you should go watch more of his fights and stop hating.

one of my favorite fighters is jack dempsey and he's white, and i have no problems with putting him in the top ten. but marciano simply doesn't deserve to be in the top ten there are so many fighters IMO who would beat him, so at best maybe top 20 or 15.

rocco1252
05-03-2006, 04:19 PM
why not? it's true. frazier would put marciano high because that was his favorite fighter, and he would rank ali low cause he hated him. common sense. :rolleyes:
so why do you put ali on the top of your list? Not because he was the greatest but because he was your favorite right, is that what your implying?

Yaman
05-03-2006, 04:24 PM
Why self own?

You love ali so you put him high, you hate marciano so you put him lower :rolleyes:

Dempsey 1919
05-03-2006, 04:26 PM
Why self own?

You love ali so you put him high, you hate marciano so you put him lower :rolleyes:

i don't hate marciano.

and ali's number one because he is, geez deal with it people. :p either face the fact that you're favorite fighter isn't the best, or become an ali fan. :D

rocco1252
05-03-2006, 04:52 PM
i don't hate marciano.

and ali's number one because he is, geez deal with it people. :p either face the fact that you're favorite fighter isn't the best, or become an ali fan. :D
marciano isnt my favorite fighter first of all, and Ali is not number 1 all time Joe Louis has that and will always have that position. And once again you go back on what you previously have said. We have had this conversation numerous times about Marciano and never once do you give him his due, you always go on about his division how it sucked and how he was a blown up cruiserweight fighting old champions never any quality opponents ans so on. So you can honestly say that you dont dislike Marciano after previously saying this?

Brockton Lip
05-03-2006, 05:31 PM
Rocky is in top 3 on my list.

Dempsey 1919
05-03-2006, 09:00 PM
marciano isnt my favorite fighter first of all, and Ali is not number 1 all time Joe Louis has that and will always have that position. And once again you go back on what you previously have said. We have had this conversation numerous times about Marciano and never once do you give him his due, you always go on about his division how it sucked and how he was a blown up cruiserweight fighting old champions never any quality opponents ans so on. So you can honestly say that you dont dislike Marciano after previously saying this?

louis#1, lol! get the heck out of here. just because blacks liked him cause he made more white people like blacks and america liked him cause he went to war and was "patriotic" does not have anything to do with how good a boxer he was. forget ali, how is louis gonna beat a guy like liston? or foreman or tyson, or even a guy like larry holmes? and don't just say he would knock them out with one punch or something stupid like that cause they all have good chins and louis would have to hit them alot of times in order for him to knock any of these guys out.

and i never said anything bad about marciano as a person or anything like that. i said he was overrated and he is. this is a fact, not my opinion. although alot of whites liked joe louis, some whites still didn't like black people, so they didn't like the idea of a black man like louis holding the title for all that time(12yrs) and then instead of a white man getting the title after, another black man in the form of ezzard charles took it and that made them even more mad. and then still another black man, jersey joe walcott came after him, so when marciano won it, it was like jesus came back to earth to them or something, so they just jump on his bandwagon and overhype the **** out of him. marciano was not as good as most people, namely white people say. he was ony 185 and had limited skills geez.

dansweeney
05-03-2006, 09:03 PM
louis#1, lol! get the heck out of here. just because blacks liked him cause he made more white people like blacks and america liked him cause he went to war and was "patriotic" does not have anything to do with how good a boxer he was. forget ali, how is louis gonna beat a guy like liston? or foreman or tyson, or even a guy like larry holmes? and don't just say he would knock them out with one punch or something stupid like that cause they all have good chins and louis would have to hit them alot of times in order for him to knock any of these guys out.

and i never said anything bad about marciano as a person or anything like that. i said he was overrated and he is. this is a fact, not my opinion. although alot of whites liked joe louis, some whites still didn't like black people, so they didn't like the idea of a black man like louis holding the title for all that time(12yrs) and then instead of a white man getting the title after, another black man in the form of ezzard charles took it and that made them even more mad. and then still another black man, jersey joe walcott came after him, so when marciano won it, it was like jesus came back to earth to them or something, so they just jump on his bandwagon and overhype the **** out of him. marciano was not as good as most people, namely white people say. he was ony 185 and had limited skills geez.


Don't listen to anything this guy says about Rocky Marciano ever. he knows nothing about Rocky Marciano, and has never seen a fight of his. He is a black guy who idolizes ALi, which is fine, but he can't stand that some people think a white guy was better. period end of story on butterfly1964

Dempsey 1919
05-03-2006, 09:48 PM
Don't listen to anything this guy says about Rocky Marciano ever. he knows nothing about Rocky Marciano, and has never seen a fight of his. He is a black guy who idolizes ALi, which is fine, but he can't stand that some people think a white guy was better. period end of story on butterfly1964

lol, dansweeney, you are a bitter white man and can't stand the fact that there are more great black fighters than white fighters. i've seen 5 or 6 marciano fights, and he didn't look like anything special at all. he was a wild swinger, even wilder than george foreman. he usually fought guys that were 180-190 and the occasional 220+lb. bum. beating those guys don't mean nothing period. how is this guy marciano gonna beat george foreman or liston or tyson, or even a guy like jack dempsey? (who we all know is white as well, so pulling the old white/black thing here won't work this time) i'll answer that one for you, there's no way!! he only weighed 185 and fought other 185-195 fighters, so how is he gonna beat the great 210-230 fighters?

Brassangel
05-03-2006, 10:00 PM
Well, if we're just going to go by weight here, than how can you pick Foreman over Lewis? Lewis was taller, heavier, and had better boxing skills than Foreman. But everybody knows that Foreman would most likely win this matchup. Was Ali a bum because he almost always fought guys who were shorter than him with minimal reach?

These examples sound silly, but that's because a disadvantage like weight, height, or reach don't always come into play when determining who would win a heavyweight bout. Rocky could still hit like a ton of bricks, and there were few who could take it in return as well as he could. Furthermore, rating the best champions of all time should only count head-to-head matchups for about 25% of the overall determining factor. Skill, heart, reign as champion, etc., are all more important than how Liston would have done versus Foreman, or Louis versus Tyson, and so on. Since there's no real way to determine the crossing of eras for head-to-head matchups, one must base a champion's greatness on their skills in the ring within their respective eras.

When considering things like this, Marciano is top 5 all-time.

Black or white has absolutely NOTHING to do with boxing greatness. They are all a part of the same race: the human race.

If you are going to claim black supremecy, butterfly1964, then take into account the fact that most of them get into the sport because they live on the streets and lead lives where they're constantly causing trouble. Sound racist? Well, so do your comments about blacks being better than whites. Blacks can be just as racist. At any rate, I don't tolerate this and niether does any sensible boxing critic, or human being for that matter. Black or white, Marciano was great.

dansweeney
05-03-2006, 10:03 PM
lol, dansweeney, you are a bitter white man and can't stand the fact that there are more great black fighters than white fighters. i've seen 5 or 6 marciano fights, and he didn't look like anything special at all. he was a wild swinger, even wilder than george foreman. he usually fought guys that were 180-190 and the occasional 220+lb. bum. beating those guys don't mean nothing period. how is this guy marciano gonna beat george foreman or liston or tyson, or even a guy like jack dempsey? (who we all know is white as well, so pulling the old white/black thing here won't work this time) i'll answer that one for you, there's no way!! he only weighed 185 and fought other 185-195 fighters, so how is he gonna beat the great 210-230 fighters?

that is an opinion by you. My favorite fighters are black dickhead. I don't discriminate in anyway, you on the other hand, have to give your 2 cents on each and every single thread about Rocky Marciano and berate his accomplishments. this isn't about who he would be beat or lose to. its about you being a racist, plain and simple. when people say that Marciano was a great fighter that has nothing to do with ALi. you are rediculous. you've seen grainy footage of 5 or 6 fight and you are an expert ha? very funny. your exposed as the racist you are.

Dempsey 1919
05-03-2006, 10:14 PM
that is an opinion by you. My favorite fighters are black dickhead. I don't discriminate in anyway, you on the other hand, have to give your 2 cents on each and every single thread about Rocky Marciano and berate his accomplishments. this isn't about who he would be beat or lose to. its about you being a racist, plain and simple. when people say that Marciano was a great fighter that has nothing to do with ALi. you are rediculous. you've seen grainy footage of 5 or 6 fight and you are an expert ha? very funny. your exposed as the racist you are.

lol, i'm the racist? you're the one who started **** about me and white fighters, you're the one who started in on skin color, not me. i didn't say that marciano wasn't good, i said he was overrated, and he is. grainy footage? whether it was grains, or noodles or spagehtti footage the man was flatfooted. the man was flatfooted, slow, wild, and not very skilled at all. he depended on his brute strength to win fights, so that would lead me to believe that someone who could move and had a granite chin would have no problem at against marciano.

dansweeney
05-03-2006, 10:17 PM
lol, i'm the racist? you're the one who started **** about me and white fighters, you're the one who started in on skin color, not me. i didn't say that marciano wasn't good, i said he was overrated, and he is. grainy footage? whether it was grains, or noodles or spagehtti footage the man was flatfooted. the man was flatfooted, slow, wild, and not very skilled at all. he depended on his brute strength to win fights, so that would lead me to believe that someone who could move and had a granite chin would have no problem at against marciano.


i can see through the thin veil that covers your racism. admit it dude. just come clean. someone who could move and had a granite chin? i wonder who you might be referring to? I know could it be ALi?

Dempsey 1919
05-03-2006, 10:37 PM
i can see through the thin veil that covers your racism. admit it dude. just come clean. someone who could move and had a granite chin? i wonder who you might be referring to? I know could it be ALi?

hey, you mentioned ali not me. i wasn't necessarily referring to ali. oh, i don't know, i could have been talking about, maaaybe larry holmes! :rolleyes:

dansweeney
05-03-2006, 10:40 PM
hey, you mentioned ali not me. i wasn't necessarily referring to ali. oh, i don't know, i could have been talking about, maaaybe larry holmes! :rolleyes:


I just don't get why you have to post in every thread that Mentions Marciano, its like a personal vendetta with you. and by the way Ali is a legend in my mind as well, no doubt about it. im just tired of you disrupting every marciano thread with your limited knowledge of him.

Dempsey 1919
05-03-2006, 10:50 PM
I just don't get why you have to post in every thread that Mentions Marciano, its like a personal vendetta with you. and by the way Ali is a legend in my mind as well, no doubt about it. im just tired of you disrupting every marciano thread with your limited knowledge of him.

well, it's not marciano i'm mad at. it mostly retarded marciano fanboys that swears marciano could knock out god with one punch. they say that marciano would crush people like ali, foreman, and even joe louis. the marciano myth just disturbes me, that's all. it's got nothing to do with white fighters in general.

dansweeney
05-03-2006, 10:59 PM
well, it's not marciano i'm mad at. it mostly retarded marciano fanboys that swears marciano could knock out god with one punch. they say that marciano would crush people like ali, foreman, and even joe louis. the marciano myth just disturbes me, that's all. it's got nothing to do with white fighters in general.


now that i can understand. I really wanted to know what your beef was. if it's not racist cool. if its nuthuggers that piss you off i can dig that. by the way, in my opinion foreman-marciano would probably look alot like foreman-frazier.

Yaman
05-04-2006, 08:44 AM
well, it's not marciano i'm mad at. it mostly retarded marciano fanboys that swears marciano could knock out god with one punch. they say that marciano would crush people like ali, foreman, and even joe louis. the marciano myth just disturbes me, that's all. it's got nothing to do with white fighters in general.


There are no Marciano fanboys like that on this forum. All the Marciano fans on this forum(rockymarcianofan, suzieq, chum etc) have sane arguments and dont say that stuff about Marciano. YOu are racist.

King Koyle
05-04-2006, 10:57 AM
Can we get over all this whitey hating racist crap?And just admit the man was a great fighter.Some Marciano fans think that he is greatest ever.They are entitled to that opinion.Im not one of those guys.But I think Rocky is easily a top ten great in the heavyweight division.He is the only champion in history in any weight division that retired undefeated with no draws.Give him his respect already.

Southpaw Stinger
05-04-2006, 11:31 AM
I think he was in the top 10, but I'm white so I'm probably racist for having a white guy in my top 10.....

Yaman
05-04-2006, 11:32 AM
I think he was in the top 10, but I'm white so I'm probably racist for having a white guy in my top 10.....


Exactly, just like im racist for having Rocky in my top 10 even though im not white or black.

Dempsey 1919
05-04-2006, 01:06 PM
There are no Marciano fanboys like that on this forum. All the Marciano fans on this forum(rockymarcianofan, suzieq, chum etc) have sane arguments and dont say that stuff about Marciano. YOu are racist.

before you call me a racist, learn your **** first! i wasn't referring to those guys. there are some posters from time to time that come on hewre and say that marciano would knock out people like george chuvalo with one punch, or has more skill than a guy like frazier, or even hits harder than mike tyson.

K-DOGG
05-04-2006, 02:56 PM
Can we get over all this whitey hating racist crap?And just admit the man was a great fighter.Some Marciano fans think that he is greatest ever.They are entitled to that opinion.Im not one of those guys.But I think Rocky is easily a top ten great in the heavyweight division.He is the only champion in history in any weight division that retired undefeated with no draws.Give him his respect already.

Good post.

King Koyle
05-04-2006, 03:23 PM
Thanks K-DOGG

RockyMarcianofan00
05-04-2006, 04:03 PM
before you call me a racist, learn your **** first! i wasn't referring to those guys. there are some posters from time to time that come on hewre and say that marciano would knock out people like george chuvalo with one punch, or has more skill than a guy like frazier, or even hits harder than mike tyson.
though Marciano was a KO punch artist i can't really see him knocking anyone out with one punch, unless the punch was in like the 15th round or something,

even George Foreman i don't believe could ko someone with one punch
unless either of them landed squarely in the right place

Yaman
05-04-2006, 04:46 PM
though Marciano was a KO punch artist i can't really see him knocking anyone out with one punch, unless the punch was in like the 15th round or something,

even George Foreman i don't believe could ko someone with one punch
unless either of them landed squarely in the right place

Actually, Rocky could KO fighters in the early rounds with 1 punch. I think the right cross was his hardest punch, and he ended fights most of the time when he landed it.

SuzieQ49
05-04-2006, 06:10 PM
There are no Marciano fanboys like that on this forum. All the Marciano fans on this forum(rockymarcianofan, suzieq, chum etc) have sane arguments and dont say that stuff about Marciano. YOu are racist.


i agree. butterfly is just trying to cover his ass.


i pick foreman and louis to KO rocky. fact is butterfly is racist against marciano

RockyMarcianofan00
05-04-2006, 08:01 PM
i agree. butterfly is just trying to cover his ass.


i pick foreman and louis to KO rocky. fact is butterfly is racist against marciano
i think louis would get a tko or decision before a ko

style wise Foreman should KO Marciano

Brockton Lip
05-04-2006, 08:05 PM
Rocky vs George Foreman. Either George Foreman by early-mid TKO or Rocky by mid-late KO. Rocky's crouched defense I think would be effective against Big George, while at the same time Foreman's style would be hell for Rocky. Both fighters pack a serious punch. I doubt it would go all the way.

SuzieQ49
05-04-2006, 08:13 PM
foreman TKO 4 marciano. foreman is the strongest heavyweight of all time. rocky would actually get bulled around(i know hard to imagine) and foreman was great at pushing them off to mid range where he could tee off on them. he would use this against marciano like he did frazier. marcianos swarming moving trading style would be made for foreman. i think marciano has a better chance than frazier at beating foreman since marciano is stronger, better two handed puncher, tends to lean back unlike frazier(always forward), and better chin.

Brockton Lip
05-04-2006, 08:16 PM
Most likely.

I remember reading a good article about why Rocky would knock out George Foreman despite many theories. Now if I remembered what the article said; that would be good ;).

Kid Achilles
05-04-2006, 08:19 PM
Agreed SuzieQ, Most likely Foreman would TKO Marciano like he did Frazier. Foreman rarely knocked anyone out with one punch or scored many clean KO's. Like Vitali Klitschko, a lot of his wins big were TKO's and a result of his heavy hands battering his opponents silly rather than great explosive punching technique and knockout power.

Louis was a much better knockout artist than Foreman. As was Marciano. True, Rocky often won by attrition but he beat more quality fighters with clean one punch KO's than Foreman.

RockyMarcianofan00
05-04-2006, 08:25 PM
i'm not gunna make a prediction i'm just gunna say style wise Foreman should win

but with Marciano you can never accurately predict anything

Brockton Lip
05-04-2006, 09:22 PM
i'm not gunna make a prediction i'm just gunna say style wise Foreman should win

but with Marciano you can never accurately predict anything

True dat man.

Heckler
05-07-2006, 05:02 PM
but you can do no more than beat the best of your era and if you do you're a great. IMO :cool:

Essentially yes. Marciano was tough, he never ducked anyone and without a doubt was an all time great. He just never got the oppurtunity to prove himself against a higher caliber of competition, and if he did.. and if we was sucessful he would be in a better position on my list. As it stands he's at 5 or 6 and i think thats pretty fair.

Kid Achilles
05-07-2006, 05:11 PM
5 or 6 is fair; having him anywhere in the top ten is reasonable. Any lower, and you're biased.

Dempsey 1919
05-07-2006, 05:55 PM
5 or 6 is fair; having him anywhere in the top ten is reasonable. Any lower, and you're biased.

well, then i'm biased since i have him at number 13. :rolleyes:

Yaman
05-07-2006, 06:26 PM
well, then i'm biased since i have him at number 13. :rolleyes:

Well, if you make a list of head to head match ups to determine the top 10 greatest HWs ever, yes, thats very biased. I guess you should put a screw up like Riddick Bowe higher than Holyfield? :eek:

Kid Achilles
05-08-2006, 01:10 AM
Butterfly you're one of the three most biased people on this forum so don't worry, your reputation is safe.

oliverlt
05-08-2006, 01:12 AM
well, then i'm biased since i have him at number 13. :rolleyes:


truer words have never been spoken

RockyMarcianofan00
05-08-2006, 01:15 AM
All i'm gunna say about Marciano is that He had an extremely strong punch-IMO P4P the Strongest, Not p4p still in the top 10 strongest hitters (top5 for me) he also had a good chin and a good style
Furthermore

he beat everybody they threw infront of him
&
he's undefeated

Whatever number you have him at you can't do much better then beating everyone you can and retiring undefeated

Dempsey 1919
05-08-2006, 01:31 PM
Well, if you make a list of head to head match ups to determine the top 10 greatest HWs ever, yes, thats very biased. I guess you should put a screw up like Riddick Bowe higher than Holyfield? :eek:

what's wrong with that. i don't think because someone had a better career than another that he should be ranked higher than that person, even though on his best night he couldn't beat that person in a boxing match. :rolleyes:

K-DOGG
05-08-2006, 01:36 PM
what's wrong with that. i don't think because someone had a better career than another that he should be ranked higher than that person, even though on his best night he couldn't beat that person in a boxing match. :rolleyes:

What's wrong with it is it relies too much on speculation. It's hard enough to pick who's going to win between two second-rate pugs in BFE; but to try to imagine...which is ultimately what speculation boils down to....who would win between two fighters whose careers were 40 or more years apart is educated guessing at best; and, therefore, far from an accurate depiction of who's better or was a better fighter or champion.

Going by a fighter's credentials such as longevity of reign, quality of opposistion and like variables is the only fair way to rate fighters, IMO.

sookyjumps
05-08-2006, 11:01 PM
rocky fought and defeated the best of his time, even if most people say they weren't that good, you cant take that away from him

antihero
05-10-2006, 02:02 PM
I see Rocky as a good HW champion. He met everyone he could be expected to and retired at the right time. At the top. He beat the best of his day and them guys weren't weak. Ezzard Charles, Jersey Joe Walcott, Archie Moore, they're greats. I'd back them to beat Lamon Brewster, John Ruiz and the like. He could only meet the guys of his day so comparing guys of diffrent eras can be fun but meaningless. A 215-220 pound Rocky as he would be today would clean house.

Dempsey 1919
05-10-2006, 02:36 PM
I see Rocky as a good HW champion. He met everyone he could be expected to and retired at the right time. At the top. He beat the best of his day and them guys weren't weak. Ezzard Charles, Jersey Joe Walcott, Archie Moore, they're greats. I'd back them to beat Lamon Brewster, John Ruiz and the like. He could only meet the guys of his day so comparing guys of diffrent eras can be fun but meaningless. A 215-220 pound Rocky as he would be today would clean house.

nice post. good k to you for an unbiased view on marciano.

supaduck
05-10-2006, 02:40 PM
lololol

If this was before the "Man that was fast!" topic you would have made some bull**** up about how marciano was overrated...

Dempsey 1919
05-10-2006, 02:49 PM
lololol

If this was before the "Man that was fast!" topic you would have made some bull**** up about how marciano was overrated...

no, because this guy was unbiased in his post, and there was nothing to deny in what he said.

supaduck
05-10-2006, 03:04 PM
so you take back all your comments on how he was overrated and was lucky he didnt fight sonny liston and would have been beaten very easily by ALi, Foreman, Frazier etc?

Dempsey 1919
05-10-2006, 03:09 PM
so you take back all your comments on how he was overrated and was lucky he didnt fight sonny liston and would have been beaten very easily by ALi, Foreman, Frazier etc?

no, he is overrated by many, and if you deny this you're fooling yourself. but i'm not gonna say that any fighter would have beaten him, though.

supaduck
05-10-2006, 03:16 PM
You are fooling yourself over half your opinions dude.

Dempsey 1919
05-10-2006, 03:18 PM
You are fooling yourself over half your opinions dude.

what do you mean?

supaduck
05-10-2006, 03:26 PM
I just mean you are way too convinced Ali would destroy anyone and that Marciano is below so many fighters.

Dempsey 1919
05-10-2006, 03:42 PM
I just mean you are way too convinced Ali would destroy anyone and that Marciano is below so many fighters.

i didn't say ali would destroy everyone, i said that most likely he would beat all the other great boxers, which is not far fetched. and i just don't think that rocky, based on his skill level could beat people like ali, holmes, forema, liston, frazier, tyson, etc.

supaduck
05-10-2006, 03:43 PM
eat my ****.

Dempsey 1919
05-10-2006, 03:45 PM
eat my ****.

how old are you?

supaduck
05-10-2006, 03:47 PM
It really isn't very hard at all to figure out that kind of information.

Holy ****, I can't believe your 18... You seem waaaaay younger than that... at least 5 years younger.

supaduck
05-10-2006, 03:47 PM
I'm 15 years old.

RockyMarcianofan00
05-10-2006, 04:02 PM
Look Marciano was a Heavyweight Great. He had a hell of a punch especially for his size. Could he hit harder then Foreman, not in my opion, was he up there in punching power? I believe yes

Marciano beat the best of his time, and retired undefeated. honestly what more can you ask of a fighter except beat everyone you can and never lose. He's hard to place for many because his competition doesn't meet the criteria for some peoples top 10. IMO he face good oppostion but wasn't tested to his limits.

Dempsey 1919
05-10-2006, 04:14 PM
Look Marciano was a Heavyweight Great. He had a hell of a punch especially for his size. Could he hit harder then Foreman, not in my opion, was he up there in punching power? I believe yes

Marciano beat the best of his time, and retired undefeated. honestly what more can you ask of a fighter except beat everyone you can and never lose. He's hard to place for many because his competition doesn't meet the criteria for some peoples top 10. IMO he face good oppostion but wasn't tested to his limits.

see, now this was a good post. better than some of the crap i've been hearing about how marciano's power was greater than foreman's, or he was faster than frazier, or he has one of the best resumes of all time or something stupid like that. all you can say is that he beat whoever was there and that he had loads of heart, and he could punch for his size.

supaduck
05-10-2006, 04:16 PM
Marcianofan just made a post equivalent to what TONS of guys have said you disagreed with.

Dempsey 1919
05-10-2006, 04:19 PM
Marcianofan just made a post equivalent to what TONS of guys have said you disagreed with.

no, i disagreed that marciano hit harder than tyson, and marciano could beat a guy like frazier, and that marciano had a chance to beat george foreman, and stupid **** like that.

supaduck
05-10-2006, 04:23 PM
well i wont deny that is stupid **** but there are some posts which are biased and wrong youve made.

Dempsey 1919
05-10-2006, 04:24 PM
well i wont deny that is stupid **** but there are some posts which are biased and wrong youve made.

like what?

RockyMarcianofan00
05-10-2006, 04:26 PM
no, i disagreed that marciano hit harder than tyson, and marciano could beat a guy like frazier, and that marciano had a chance to beat george foreman, and stupid **** like that.
Anybody can beat anybody. Marciano I believe was close in strength with Frazier. Many boxing experts have actually compared the two fighters strengths with each others. Depending on whom you talk to you get different answers. Rocky for me is in the top 10 hardest hitters. While I don't believe Rocky hit harder then Foreman i do believe he hit harder the Liston. But at the same time Liston is one of the harder hitters in hw history.

Rocky has a decent chance at beating Tyson and Ali. Foreman is alot less likely.

I'm not trying to turn this into a Marciano vs... thread i'm just saying style wise Marciano has a good chance at beating Ali, a bad chance at beating Foreman and a decent shot at beating Tyson.
Am I going to say its a sure shot, no, but then again wierder things have happened

Chuck Wepner going 15 rounds with Ali :D

Southpaw Stinger
05-11-2006, 11:20 AM
Chuck Wepner going 15 rounds with Ali

Ali did hit like a ***** though.

Heckler
05-11-2006, 12:22 PM
Anybody can beat anybody. Marciano I believe was close in strength with Frazier. Many boxing experts have actually compared the two fighters strengths with each others. Depending on whom you talk to you get different answers. Rocky for me is in the top 10 hardest hitters. While I don't believe Rocky hit harder then Foreman i do believe he hit harder the Liston. But at the same time Liston is one of the harder hitters in hw history.

Rocky has a decent chance at beating Tyson and Ali. Foreman is alot less likely.

I'm not trying to turn this into a Marciano vs... thread i'm just saying style wise Marciano has a good chance at beating Ali, a bad chance at beating Foreman and a decent shot at beating Tyson.
Am I going to say its a sure shot, no, but then again wierder things have happened

Chuck Wepner going 15 rounds with Ali :D

Yeah man thats ALMOST as crazy as Tiger Ted Lowry who had a career record of 60-54-9 going the distance with Marciano.

RockyMarcianofan00
05-11-2006, 04:20 PM
Yeah man thats ALMOST as crazy as Tiger Ted Lowry who had a career record of 60-54-9 going the distance with Marciano.
not really considering Marciano had only been boxing for three years before that fight. Also everybody fights bums on the way to the top its just the natrual order of things. Your opposition gets harder as you get better. Hardly anyone brings up fights from the beginning of ppl's careers.

The only fighters any body really talks about on Marciano's record from before he fought Joe Louis are Roland Lastarza,Carmine Vingo, and Rex Layne

Also you need to consider that somebody thats fought over 100 times is gunna have some idea on how to keep somebody away. I mean anybody can go the distance with someone if they know the correct way to keep them off.

SuzieQ49
05-11-2006, 04:38 PM
better than some of the crap i've been hearing about how marciano's power was greater than foreman's


p4p marciano DEFINTLEY hit harder than foreman

RockyMarcianofan00
05-11-2006, 04:42 PM
p4p marciano DEFINTLEY hit harder than foreman
P4P i believe Marciano hit harder then anyone in hw history

based on the fact he was 188lbs and hit harder then a 200+ man

Southpaw Stinger
05-11-2006, 05:19 PM
p4p marciano DEFINTLEY hit harder than foreman

P4P an ant is stronger than a human and smarter - that ain't gonna help it in a fight against a human with a magnifying glass is it now?

Dempsey 1919
05-11-2006, 05:20 PM
p4p marciano DEFINTLEY hit harder than foreman

are we taling about p4p suzie q? no, we're talking about who actually hit harder. :rolleyes:

Brockton Lip
05-11-2006, 05:38 PM
Marciano KO7 Foreman.

Kid Achilles
05-11-2006, 05:43 PM
Funny that Butterfly dismisses the notion that Marciano can possibly hit as hard as Foreman yet in other threads suggests that Bruce Lee could hang with heavyweights like Ali and Tyson, and hurt them with his punches, even though his punching mechanics were worse than Marciano's and he weighed only 130 pounds.

Dempsey 1919
05-11-2006, 05:50 PM
Funny that Butterfly dismisses the notion that Marciano can possibly hit as hard as Foreman yet in other threads suggests that Bruce Lee could hang with heavyweights like Ali and Tyson, and hurt them with his punches, even though his punching mechanics were worse than Marciano's and he weighed only 130 pounds.

alright, fine. i changed my mind about lee. you happy now? :rolleyes:

Southpaw Stinger
05-11-2006, 06:16 PM
alright, fine. i changed my mind about lee. you happy now?

I certainly am!

Marciano KO7 Foreman.

On the prozak again I see!

Brockton Lip
05-11-2006, 06:18 PM
Haha, I wanted to see someone flip out.

Really though, I think either Marciano KO7 Foreman or Foreman KO3 Marciano. Most likely the latter but you never know with power punchers.

Southpaw Stinger
05-11-2006, 06:21 PM
Haha, I wanted to see someone flip out.

Well I'm not in a flip out mood. I found some pills in a bush outside my house and I decided to take them for a laugh. I'm currently seeing things I never knew existed!

RockyMarcianofan00
05-11-2006, 06:50 PM
i agree wtih Chum
it would be Foreman basically right at the beginning or Marciano towards the end

SABBATH
05-11-2006, 07:03 PM
http://www.americanphoto.co.jp/photosearch/Previews/PLX035790.jpg

Here's one for ya....

Southpaw Stinger
05-12-2006, 11:04 AM
i agree wtih Chum
it would be Foreman basically right at the beginning or Marciano towards the end

Cept it wouldn't get to the end end of the fight. Round 3 tops.

Brockton Lip
05-12-2006, 12:34 PM
Marciano's small height, crouched stance, and underrated defense would be a difficult target for Big George. His heart and chin would be useful for when George did connect. At the same time, Foreman is an absolutely perfect target for Marciano's strongest punch, his overhand right; Suzy-Q.

Dempsey 1919
05-12-2006, 12:46 PM
Marciano's small height, crouched stance, and underrated defense would be a difficult target for Big George. His heart and chin would be useful for when George did connect. At the same time, Foreman is an absolutely perfect target for Marciano's strongest punch, his overhand right; Suzy-Q.

which foreman would walk through.

wmute
05-12-2006, 02:35 PM
Marciano is number 1 alltime

at cruiserweight

although he could lick many other top HWs,

in my book he is behind ali and louis for sure, and I can see him having trouble with others, too

ps: I am fully aware that with today's training methods he would be bigger around 200, he might reach even 210, but that would not be good for his incredible stamina. (with today I mean past 20 years)