View Full Version : Jack Dempsey was not a great fighter


Dempsey 1919
04-16-2006, 08:12 PM
Since frazier's15thround did this, I've decided to have a little fun as well. Keep in mind that this is a joke and that Dempsey is one of my favorite fighters, so don't flame me. I'm a little bored. :D

Let's analyze this "great" carrer of Jack Dempsey, the Manassah masquerador. His "hall of fame" career starts with:

Young Herman(0-0-1) This guy Dempsey couldn't even win his first fight against a complete bum who didn't even want to fight after this. This was Herman's only fight and yet Dempsey couldn't defeat him. What a stellar talent, Jack is.

Dempsey moves on to pad his record against bums who either had one fight under their belt or less, and then moves on to take on:

Jack Downey(32-14-29) Another journeyman Dempsey wanted to pick on but yet, dempsey lost to this tomato can as well. It seems that Dempsey has a hard time winning against complete bums as we can plainly see. Downey beat no one worth mentioning, no one. Oh, except Jack Dempsey. :rolleyes: Oh, but wait it get even worse! that's right. Dempsey manages to beat the tomato can Bob York, capturing the Pacific Coast Light Heavyweight title(whatever that means), and continues to pad his record with stiffs and journeyman and then runs into:

Fireman Jim Flynn(45-50-19) This guy Flynn is overrated. He had two shots at the title. One from Tommy Burns in 1906, and the other from Jack Johnson in 1912. Flynn was ko'd both times. He was nothing more than a journeyman bum. However, not only could Dempsey not beat Flynn, but he couldn't even last the first round! That's right. This stiff Flynn threw a left to Dempsey's jaw and layed him out cold! Flynn exposed Dempsey's glass jaw, as other fighters will in the future. And this guy is supposed to be a top 5 heavyweight? Paaaaallleeeasssee!! A couple of fights later and Dempsey takes on:

Willie Meehan(71-35-38) Again, just another ham and egger for Dempsey to get through in order to get a title shot, right? But Dempsey still lost. They will fight four more times after this, and Dempsey will only beat him once, lol. Not only that, but the one time Dempsey was given the nod against this bum was a gift decision. Most people who saw that fight agrees that Meehan was robbed. Willie gave Jack hell in all 5 of their fights. What kind of "great" fighter struggles with complete bums?

Dempsey then goes on to pad his record against huge dummies such as Fred Fulton and Carl Morris. He then goes on a tour fighting five guys. Four who were starting their pro debut and one who only fought once in his life and lost. Well somehow this bum Dempsey is given a title shot against:

Jess Willard(27-7-1) Although, he was called Heavyweight champion, he really was another bum. His best win came against an old, decrepit Jack Johnson. On top of that, Willard didn't even beat him! Johnson threw the fight, because white racists were threatening to kill his white wife if he didn't; if you watch the fight, you could even see johnson shielding his face from the sun while lying on the canvas. He could have gotten up if he wanted to. Johnson didn't want to fight anymore, and he was a fugitive from justice, leaving the country on account of the Mann Act, so Johnson just couldn't be bothered. So after the title was basically handed to Willard on a silver platter, Willard made one defense and then went back to his farm in Pottawatomie, Kansas and sat on the title. He was nothing more than a paper champion with no skills, period. So it's no surprise that Dempsey would beat him.

After winning the title, Dempsey then makes a couple of title defenses, and then fights:

Georges Carpentier(88-15-6) This guy was the light heavyweight champion from France. The key word here is "light heavyweight". So his power wouldn't be able to hurt "heavyweight" Dempsey, right? Wrong! He stunned Dempsey a few times in that fight. Remember I said a while back that Dempsey had a weak chin? Well, his chin is coming back to bite him in the butt, big time! Carpentier fought with a broken thumb as well, and still managed to make a fight out of it before being floored twice in the fourth round, one for a nine-count, and one for the full count. Dempsey got a lucky shot in that saved his behind. dempsey then goes on to decision the tomato can Jimmy Darcy, and then fights:

Tommy Gibbons(95-5-1) Don't let his record fool you. Like Dempsey, he just padded his record fighting stiffs. he was a light heavyweight, but yet Dempsey couldn't knock him out. That's another thing. Dempsey's power is overrated as well. Gibbons managed to tie Dempsey up continuously throughout the fight, and Dempsey was partially exposed as such a great fighter. After this fight, Dempsey crashes into:

Dempsey 1919
04-17-2006, 01:00 AM
Luis Angel Firpo(33-6) His fight with dempsey is recognized by many as the greatest fight of all time. However, if Jack Dempsey was truly a great fighter, it should have been lopsided in Dempsey's favor, because this was just another oversized bum from Argentina with no skills at all. His nickname was "The Wild Bull of the Pampas", cause he just swung until his opponent went down. Firpo's biggest win came against Jess Willard, whom as you all know was a complete bum himself. Firpo would expose Dempsey's chin, and his overrated power in this fight, and believe it or not, be robbed of a win! When the fight starts, firpo immediately knocks Dempsey down! Dempsey then manages to come back and floor Firpo seven times. Do you mean that Dempsey doesn't have the power to put away a fighter that he has to knock him down that many times? Not only did Dermpsey not have enough power to knock out Firpo with one clean punch, but Firpo was still fresh enough after being floored seven times to get up and knock Dempsey clean out of the ring! :eek: That's right. Out of the ring! What kind of great fighter gets catapulted out of the ring with one punch from a complete bum like Firpo? Now this is where Firpo gets robbed. Dempsey landed on the sportswriter's table, and the people sitting at that table pushed Dempsey back into the ring. Dempsey claimed to the day he died that had no one helped him, he wouldn't have made it. So instead of Luis Firpo being rightfully crowned Heavyweight champion, Dempsey gets another lucky brake. Then the first round ends. In the second round, Dempsey somehow catches Firpo with some lucky punches, and floores Firpo twice, the second time being for good. Dempsey's power and chin is exposed again.

After this fight, Dempsey will sit on the title for the next three years, and capitalize off of his fluke victories. Now this is where things get interesting. A skilled black fighter named Harry Wills rises through the ranks and challenges Dempsey for his title. However, since Dempsey knows that he himself sucks, he is not gonna fight him because he knows he will lose. So he ducks this guy to pick on:

Gene Tunney(83-2-2) This is the best fighter Dempsey ever faced. Since Tunney is a light heavyweight, Jack figures it will be a cakewalk. However, he must have forgot that he himself is a bum, because Dempsey is finally exposed after all these years for the piece of crap fighter he truly was. You see, Tunney was actually a very good fighter, so there was no way Dempsey was gonna beat him. Dempsey couldn't duck the good fighters his whole career, so Tunney just seized the opportunity and outboxed and outclassed the guy. On top of that, Tunney hurt Dempsey throughout the fight.

Many people will say that this was a past prime Dempsey losing the title. But let's get some perspective on the age thing. Dempsey was only 32 years old. At 32 years old, Muhammad Ali knocked out heavyweight champion George Foreman (40-0), and defeated Joe Frazier (30-1). Joe Louis at 32 ko'd Billy Conn (62-11-1), and Tami Mauriello (69-7-1). Rocky Marciano defeated Archie Moore (148-19-9). Larry Holmes defeated renaldo Snipes (22-0), and Gerry Cooney (25-0). in addirtion jack Johnson at 32 defeated James J. Jeffries (17-0-2). If these guy could do well at an advanced age, then why couldn't dempsey if he was any good? Well, Dempsey makes an attempt at a comeback, but before he gets his rematch with Tunney, he has to face:

Jack Sharkey(38-14-3) He also was a great fighter. He beat Harry Wills, the same guy that Dempsey ducked, so it's no suprise that Sharkey was on his way to convincingly beating Dempsey. But Dempsey was continually low blowing Sharkey, and when Sharkey complained to the referee about it in the seventh, Dempsey sucker punched him and knocked him out! Not only is Dempsey a bum, but he is a dirty fighter as well. Sharkey was winning every round up to that point. Sharkey deserved that title shot, and he would have to wait three more years to get it. Well, Dempsey lucked up again and this set up his rematch with Tunney.

Al Capone a big time gangster put in a payed-off referee to guarantee a Dempsey victory. It shouldn't be that far-fetched that Dempsey told Capone to do it. That's how shady Dempsey was. However, that referee was taken off when they found out Capone placed him there.

Not only is Dempsey shady, but he is stupid as well. He himself asked that a rule be put in that when a fighter is knocked down, the other fighter go to a neural corner. So Tunney is again making Jack look like a fool for the first six rounds, and in the seventh round is doing the same thing, when dempsey get's in a lucky punch that shakes Gene a little, and then flurries wildly with a few punches including a left hook and knocks gene down. Instead of going to a neutral corner, Dempsey stands over Tunney for four seconds before finally obeying the referee. And that is something Dempsey himself requested. How stupid! Many of Dempsey's fanboys claim that Tunney would not have made it had Dempsey gone to the neutral corner right away, but that is just an excuse. Tunney's eyes are wide awake and he would have made the count regardless. Gene also exposes Jack's chin yet again in the eighth round, knocking Dempsey down. Tunney won 19 of the 20 rounds they fought, only losing the "long count" round.

Dempsey now realizes that the jig is up, so he retires. Dempsey is a bum with a record padded with fighting stiffs. And when he fought people with more skill, he lost. trust me if Fireman Jim Flynn could knockout Dempsey, then Foreman, or Marciano would kill him. If Gene Tunney could outbox him, imagine what guys like Muhammad Ali, Larry Holmes, Jack Johnson and Ezzard Charles would do. They would embarrass him. Read it and weep, people.

Haha, that was fun. :D

nobody liked it? :(

Verstyle
04-17-2006, 01:06 AM
maybe cause it was true :o

Dempsey 1919
04-17-2006, 01:11 AM
maybe cause it was true :o

well, of course it wasn't true, and there's more to the story. don't tempt me to do one on tyson. :D

Verstyle
04-17-2006, 01:13 AM
well, of course it wasn't true, and there's more to the story. don't tempt me to do one on tyson. :D


go ahead its not like i hear it everyday ne way :rolleyes:

Frazier's 15th round
04-17-2006, 01:19 AM
OMG You cant do one on TYSON!!! He's the greatest p4p boxer EVAR!!! He was a shot fighter when Douglas beat him, he really was the greatest!

^Stupid Tyson fans.

Verstyle
04-17-2006, 01:23 AM
OMG You cant do one on TYSON!!! He's the greatest p4p boxer EVAR!!! He was a shot fighter when Douglas beat him, he really was the greatest!

^Stupid Tyson fans.


actually ive never said **** like that ever. maybe other tyson fans so dont direct that towards me. and ive never said tyson was the greatest i've never stated who the greatest was ever. and for the douglas fight he was not mentally therem he had the tools(lack of training) but his style of combos and jabs wasnt there. so not a shot fighter but a lazy and out of shape fighter when he fought douglas ;)

Verstyle
04-17-2006, 01:24 AM
and i dont even talk to u so dont try to direct **** to me. cause im known to own and call mother****ers out and they decline. so like i said i dont talk to u or know u and i dont plan to neither ;)

Dempsey 1919
04-17-2006, 01:39 AM
and i dont even talk to u so dont try to direct **** to me. cause im known to own and call mother****ers out and they decline. so like i said i dont talk to u or know u and i dont plan to neither ;)

oooooooooooohhhhhhh!!!!! :D :D

RockyMarcianofan00
04-17-2006, 01:48 AM
with the douglas fight Tyson had a ****ty night and douglas had a great night

i think even prime tyson would have had to go at least 3 rounds with douglas that night

RockyMarcianofan00
04-17-2006, 01:49 AM
Jack Dempsey is an awesome, great fighter and anybody who diagrees should just look at some of his fights

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c49/IrishInsomniac00/Jack%20Dempsey/jd6.jpg

Frazier's 15th round
04-17-2006, 11:52 AM
and i dont even talk to u so dont try to direct **** to me. cause im known to own and call mother****ers out and they decline. so like i said i dont talk to u or know u and i dont plan to neither

I'm real scared, *****.

Verstyle
04-17-2006, 02:29 PM
I'm real scared, *****.


first off your talkin trash to me on the net and u called me a ***** oooooohhhhhh big words for a patetic lil ***** with the name fraziers 15th round. what the **** kind of name is that bull****. ***** dont be comin in here talkin **** to me for no reason, or i'll jus have to embarrass your ass like the other ****s that try to talk **** to me for no reason. jus cause on the front page of the forum they said that frazier was practically a no body that jus got the recognition for beating ali,and his doing horrible on the bag doesnt mean u gotta take it out on some1 u dont even talk to. do me a favor kid once u get off your rag then come talk to me cause like i said i've never said ne thing negative nor have i ever talked to u,and for u to jus come out and talk **** for no reason is dumb. u did it to the wrong damn person i can tell u that for sure ;)

Verstyle
04-17-2006, 02:30 PM
and like i said please dont let me start the ownage frazier. i try to stay away from talkin ****,but for some reason ******* jus come to me talkin **** for no reason,like they had a dream that i did something to them so there takin it out on me in real life. and most of your replies have butterfly in them also, do u like sniffing butterflies ass to every thread he goes to?? damn get a life do your own thing. i cant believe ppl have crew leaders on the internet that they follow. :confused:

hemichromis
04-17-2006, 02:57 PM
Ladies, would you please put your handbags away!!

leff
04-17-2006, 02:57 PM
with the douglas fight Tyson had a ****ty night and douglas had a great night

i think even prime tyson would have had to go at least 3 rounds with douglas that night


ummmmm, that was prime tyson

The_One77
04-17-2006, 03:29 PM
i dont rank Jack Dempsey that high, hes overrated imo
Guy fought bums his whole career

Verstyle
04-17-2006, 05:36 PM
Ladies, would you please put your handbags away!!


ladies my ass. look at the thread and YOU tell me who started ****. and to add i dont think i've ever talked to this guy ever :eek:

Verstyle
04-17-2006, 05:37 PM
ummmmm, that was prime tyson


i guess your right. i lazy ass prime tyson.

Frazier's 15th round
04-17-2006, 06:31 PM
Mystyal, why don't you go **** off? And learn to type while you're at it. I can barely understand a ****ing thing you're saying.

Verstyle
04-17-2006, 06:36 PM
Mystyal, why don't you go **** off? And learn to type while you're at it. I can barely understand a ****ing thing you're saying.


maybe cause your a little ****in kid that cant read.ahahaha ahhhhh is that all u have to say "**** off" did i hurt your feelings :( ****in *****. u picked the wrong mother ****er to try to pick a flaming war with. and ****s hard to read when its about u huh. is the the ownage syndrome u got there ;) when u cant understand what ppl say all of a sudden

Frazier's 15th round
04-17-2006, 07:03 PM
No, you didn't hurt my feelings, but it seems like I hurt yours, seeing as how you go on a rant after each of my replies. Quit whining.

Verstyle
04-17-2006, 07:07 PM
No, you didn't hurt my feelings, but it seems like I hurt yours, seeing as how you go on a rant after each of my replies. Quit whining.


quit whining. ***** u started the **** and now im going to finish it. i will be talkin about u and your sorry as"what the ****" name for a while now for talkin ****. and ne 1 that says "u didnt hurt my feelings" most likely did. so quit being a lil *****. and quit chasing butterflies ass all over the forums like a lost puppy. :boxing:

sleazyfellow
04-17-2006, 07:28 PM
how about this, i call u out!! i live in san antonio too and i dont mind fighting for real, so wheres ur gym at? ill take ur paperweight title away from u as well as ur life, this coming weekend!! and dont punch the buttons real hurd cause it wont help you at all pinkguy, my powerlevel is like, 8 billion, and my psi punch is exactly 8000 pounds per square inch, ive been known to knock out gorillas and sharks, and just about any other kind of animal known to man!! so what do u say?? i bet ur scured

Verstyle
04-17-2006, 09:25 PM
how about this, i call u out!! i live in san antonio too and i dont mind fighting for real, so wheres ur gym at? ill take ur paperweight title away from u as well as ur life, this coming weekend!! and dont punch the buttons real hurd cause it wont help you at all pinkguy, my powerlevel is like, 8 billion, and my psi punch is exactly 8000 pounds per square inch, ive been known to knock out gorillas and sharks, and just about any other kind of animal known to man!! so what do u say?? i bet ur scured


yep i am :)

Dempsey 1919
04-17-2006, 09:50 PM
:hijacked:

Verstyle
04-17-2006, 09:51 PM
:hijacked:


that ****** frazier did it so blame his sorry ass

Dempsey 1919
04-17-2006, 09:53 PM
that ****** frazier did it so blame his sorry ass

i think frazier's 15th round is this guy.

http://www.writestuffautographs.com/shop/images/products/boxing64.jpg

:D :D

Verstyle
04-17-2006, 09:58 PM
i think frazier's 15th round is this guy.

http://www.writestuffautographs.com/shop/images/products/boxing64.jpg

:D :D


no he's this guyhttp://pbskids.org/barney/pareduc/behindscenes/images/barney_caboose.jpg jus queer and ***** as can be

Dempsey 1919
04-17-2006, 10:02 PM
no he's this guyhttp://pbskids.org/barney/pareduc/behindscenes/images/barney_caboose.jpg jus queer and ***** as can be

lol!!

by the way, the guy i put up there was ernie terrell. he's just mad cause of the beating ali gave him and all that taunting. "What's my name?"lol!

Verstyle
04-17-2006, 10:06 PM
lol!!

by the way, the guy i put up there was ernie terrell. he's just mad cause of the beating ali gave him and all that taunting. "What's my name?"lol!


frazier15round. i dont get his name at all??

Dempsey 1919
04-17-2006, 10:08 PM
frazier15round. i dont get his name at all??

i guess he means in the 15th round frazier knocked down ali and that was frazier's biggest moment as a boxer.

The_One77
04-17-2006, 10:10 PM
meh....how did everyone's easter go?

Verstyle
04-17-2006, 10:13 PM
i guess he means in the 15th round frazier knocked down ali and that was frazier's biggest moment as a boxer.


so thats why he did it ahahaha dumb ass. u dont see my user name spinks1stround. ahahaha dumb ass

Dempsey 1919
04-17-2006, 10:15 PM
so thats why he did it ahahaha dumb ass. u dont see my user name spinks1stround. ahahaha dumb ass

or me puting ali's 8th round!! :D

Verstyle
04-17-2006, 10:17 PM
or me puting ali's 8th round!! :D


i cant wait til he gets back on so i can own his ass for talkin **** to me for no apparant reason as u see in this thread

Dempsey 1919
04-17-2006, 10:21 PM
i cant wait til he gets back on so i can own his ass for talkin **** to me for no apparant reason as u see in this thread

i just call him ernie terrel. he gets mad when i call him that, and then he shuts up. :D

leff
04-17-2006, 10:23 PM
i guess he means in the 15th round frazier knocked down ali and that was frazier's biggest moment as a boxer.

hmmmm

i assumed it was what would have happenet if futz would have let joe out for the 15 in the thrilla in manilla

Verstyle
04-17-2006, 10:24 PM
hmmmm

i assumed it was what would have happenet if futz would have let joe out for the 15 in the thrilla in manilla


him gettin schooled by ali u mean??

leff
04-17-2006, 10:39 PM
him gettin schooled by ali u mean??

i think so, but i dont think fraziers15th round thinks so

The_One77
04-17-2006, 10:56 PM
i like frazier, haha pretty glad he beat Ali the first time :D

Heckler
04-18-2006, 12:39 AM
i think so, but i dont think fraziers15th round thinks so

What you mean the possibility of Frazier walking out with his face turned to mincemeat and no vision at all? **** Ali could literally lay on the ropes for 3 minutes and win. But he is referring to the FOTC he told me.

Frazier's 15th round
04-18-2006, 01:52 AM
Actually, my real name was Larry Holmes, up until I beat Ali from pillar to post all night in 1980. Then I changed it to James Douglas, and I beat that overrated bum Tyson (who made his reputation by brutally knocking out journeymen and tomato cans) in his prime at 24 years old.

Dempsey 1919
04-18-2006, 01:55 AM
Actually, my real name was Larry Holmes, up until I beat Ali from pillar to post all night in 1980. Then I changed it to James Douglas, and I beat that overrated bum Tyson (who made his reputation by brutally knocking out journeymen and tomato cans) in his prime at 24 years old.

shut up fool! you are ernie terrel!!

maybe i should refresh your memory.

http://www.josportsinc.com/item_images/1086535793.jpg

:D

Verstyle
04-18-2006, 01:59 AM
Actually, my real name was Larry Holmes, up until I beat Ali from pillar to post all night in 1980. Then I changed it to James Douglas, and I beat that overrated bum Tyson (who made his reputation by brutally knocking out journeymen and tomato cans) in his prime at 24 years old.


no u the frazier that didnt beat ne 1 besides ali, and u were the 1 big george was playin basketball with. i thought george was going for the dunk with all the bouncin frazier did.ahahaha

Verstyle
04-18-2006, 02:02 AM
with only 37 fights. ahahaa he aint no sugar ray leonard he didnt fight the best all the time he fought bum after bum and ali made him cry like a *****.ahahaha

http://boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=147

Frazier's 15th round
04-18-2006, 02:04 AM
Amateur Leon Spinks is the new world champion!

Big uppercut by Douglas! Down goes Tyson!

By the way, it's pretty sad that you guys replied like one minute after I posted. Were you guys waiting all day?

Verstyle
04-18-2006, 02:05 AM
Amateur Leon Spinks is the new world champion!

Big uppercut by Douglas! Down goes Tyson!

By the way, it's pretty sad that you guys replied like one minute after I posted. Were you guys waiting all day?


actually i was. i've been waiting to own u all day :)

down goes fraza down goes fraza!! like a basketball in michael jordans hands ;)

Frazier's 15th round
04-18-2006, 02:06 AM
http://www.boxing-memorabilia.com/images/spinksl.jpg

http://www.sportsonline.com.au/images/Products/6367.jpg

Verstyle
04-18-2006, 02:11 AM
http://www.olimpiadi.it/campioni/George_Foreman/im/frazierP.jpgthis is george walkin away after jus owning frazier hahahahttp://www.boxing-memorabilia.com/images/frazierforeman2.jpeg here it comes frazier ahaha. he's waiting for it. :D

Verstyle
04-18-2006, 02:13 AM
http://207.21.243.204/images/4178.jpg he's look to suck his dick to get out the ownage he got himself into ahahaha

Frazier's 15th round
04-18-2006, 02:28 AM
Actually, he simply beats the hell out of Ali all night.

Dempsey 1919
04-18-2006, 02:36 AM
Actually, he simply beats the hell out of Ali all night.

here's ali owning frazier's 15th round.(aka ernie terrell) :D

http://www.josportsinc.com/item_images/1086457192.jpg

Frazier's 15th round
04-18-2006, 02:43 AM
Ali was pretty chinny, when you think about it. He was out several times against basically every fighter he fought. He was even dropped by Henry Cooper, Sonny Banks, and Charles Wepner. Not to mention Frazier, who won FOTC by a close but clear decision of 15 rounds to 0.

Dempsey 1919
04-18-2006, 02:48 AM
Ali was pretty chinny, when you think about it. He was out several times against basically every fighter he fought. He was even dropped by Henry Cooper, Sonny Banks, and Charles Wepner. Not to mention Frazier, who won FOTC by a close but clear decision of 15 rounds to 0.

yeah, but ali managed to still put frazier in the hospital for months. :D

Frazier's 15th round
04-18-2006, 02:55 AM
Months? LOL, it was about two days. That whole story about Frazier being near death is a myth. He just needed rest.

Dempsey 1919
04-18-2006, 03:03 AM
Months? LOL, it was about two days. That whole story about Frazier being near death is a myth. He just needed rest.

two days my foot. he was there for at least a month.

"He just needed rest." LMAO!! that was self ownage right there. when you "need rest", you check into a hotel or something like that, you don't go to the hospital, lol! obviously frazier needed serious medical attention. :rolleyes:

Frazier's 15th round
04-18-2006, 03:17 AM
Don't try and rewrite history, Butterfly. Dave Anderson himself said that Frazier only needed a little bit of rest.

sleazyfellow
04-18-2006, 04:13 AM
frazier was in and out of the hospital for weeks ok, that was frazier at his best and after that beating he took (as well as ali) he slumped faster, ali was still able to continue on with his career pretty much, doesnt that tell u sumthing?

Frazier's 15th round
04-18-2006, 04:39 AM
I don't know where you guys get your false information (probably from Ali's camp, like Angelo Dundee, Douchebag Bundini Brown, and Freddie Pacheco) but Frazier was not in and out for a month. He was in there for about 2 days.

sleazyfellow
04-18-2006, 07:11 AM
watch espnclassics sportscentury:joe frazier,it tells of what happend after the fotc, after leaving the hospital he fought 2 no names and then lost to foreman, his son even tells of how joe said he thought an angel came to him in the hospital n told everything was gonna b allright, so u need to check YO sources, b4 i challenge u to fight ok

The_One77
04-18-2006, 07:55 PM
ofcourse frazier was in the hospital for more than 2 days, he was in a bad state....high blood pressure etc etc

hellfire508
04-21-2006, 01:03 AM
Why all the hating on fighters? Hate on each other, but no the fighters.

a) Frazier had a quality resume. Some excellent names in addition to Ali.

b) Ali was not chinny and you know it 15thrd.

c) Yeah Frazier got beaten from pillar to post by Foreman, but if anything that fight showed his heart. The man never quit. Styles make fights.

d) Tyson was prime against douglas, just not properly focused.

There...settled.

Heckler
04-26-2006, 09:02 AM
Ali was pretty chinny, when you think about it. He was out several times against basically every fighter he fought. He was even dropped by Henry Cooper, Sonny Banks, and Charles Wepner. Not to mention Frazier, who won FOTC by a close but clear decision of 15 rounds to 0.

Out several times? **** i didn't realise the brain had the capacity to leave one standing that many times against every fighter he fought, have you much evidence of this? Apart from Foreman and early pro fights there is none. Ali wasn't chinny at all and you have to be a raging retard to suggest it. In the worlds of CHUCK Wepner 'i hit him with a poor shot, he was off balance and went down... when he got up he looked pissed' - Chuck Wepner - Ali: through the eyes of the world. Do you really think that Ali who was hit by quote 'The hardest body punch i ever landed on anyone' - George Foreman, was dropped legitimately with a body shot by Chuck Wepner?

Dempsey 1919
11-27-2006, 06:54 PM
Don't try and rewrite history, Butterfly. Dave Anderson himself said that Frazier only needed a little bit of rest.

You took what Dave Anderson said about Frazier seriously? That's like asking Doc Hearns who's the greatest heavyweight of all-time, you know he's gonna say dempsey, lol!:owned:

Kid Achilles
11-27-2006, 07:28 PM
Bad example. Who knows what Kearns would have said for sure if asked that question. He was the one, after all, who swore that Dempsey loaded his gloves in Toledo. I would take the answer to any question directed to Kearns with a grain of salt.

Dempsey 1919
11-27-2006, 07:34 PM
Bad example. Who knows what Kearns would have said for sure if asked that question. He was the one, after all, who swore that Dempsey loaded his gloves in Toledo. I would take the answer to any question directed to Kearns with a grain of salt.

Well, anyway my point was that Dave Anderson is biased towards frazier and against Ali. he said that frazier desrtroyed Ali in the first fight, which couldn't be further from the truth. Frazier left with more injuries, so no way he dominated the entire fight.

Kid Achilles
11-27-2006, 07:42 PM
Frazier went to the hospital for high blood pressure. It was not as if Ali's punches alone put him there. I would say Frazier took that fight pretty convincingly, especially the later rounds. The knockdown gave the fight to him hands down and erased any doubt who was superior.

Also, that was the most significant fight of the trilogy for determining the outcome of a prime vs. prime fight, IMO, as both men were closer to their primes than in the other two. Frazier went downhill fast by the time of #2 and by #3 he was just about finished as a fighter.

SABBATH
11-27-2006, 08:28 PM
Frazier went to the hospital for high blood pressure. It was not as if Ali's punches alone put him there. I would say Frazier took that fight pretty convincingly, especially the later rounds. The knockdown gave the fight to him hands down and erased any doubt who was superior.Dave Anderson was no fan of Ali and his columns during Ali's fighting days were often slanted.

As a DIRECT result of the FOTC Frazier suffered from extreme exhaustion and dehydration, went to a secluded hospital and remained there for three weeks. Frazier was in seriously bad shape and openly admits it in his autobiography for those that take the time to read it.

Ali was in and out of the hospital immediately after the fight only to have his jaw x-rayed to confirm it wasn't broken. Ali did not stay in the hospital.

Dempsey 1919
11-27-2006, 11:15 PM
Dave Anderson was no fan of Ali and his columns during Ali's fighting days were often slanted.

As a DIRECT result of the FOTC Frazier suffered from extreme exhaustion and dehydration, went to a secluded hospital and remained there for three weeks. Frazier was in seriously bad shape and openly admits it in his autobiography for those that take the time to read it.

Ali was in and out of the hospital immediately after the fight only to have his jaw x-rayed to confirm it wasn't broken. Ali did not stay in the hospital.

Exactly, and the fight was pretty close, it was not the blowout Anderson or Frazier's 15th round is making it out to be. IMO Ali beat Frazier more convincingly in the second fight than Frazier beat Ali in the first fight.

Frazier's 15th round
11-28-2006, 02:50 PM
IMO Ali beat Frazier more convincingly in the second fight than Frazier beat Ali in the first fight.

The judges, and logic, would disagree with you. Ali did nothing in the second fight except dance around and hold. Frazier didn't do much either, but at least he wanted to fight.

Kid Achilles
11-28-2006, 04:17 PM
2nd fight was very close and Ali won it mainly illegally by holding around the neck. Depending on the ref, Frazier could have won it. Frazier won the first fight on anyone's scorecards (assuming they understand the criteria for scoring a fight), and without fouling.

Abe Attell
11-28-2006, 07:31 PM
Ali held his opponents head down in a lot of fights after prison...he held George's down all night in their fight...dam, that actually sounds gay

K-DOGG
11-28-2006, 07:37 PM
Ali held his opponents head down in a lot of fights after prison...he held George's down all night in their fight...dam, that actually sounds gay


:rofl: LOL!!!!!!!! :haha:


****. I needed that. :D

SABBATH
11-28-2006, 08:02 PM
2nd fight was very close and Ali won it mainly illegally by holding around the neck. Depending on the ref, Frazier could have won it. Frazier won the first fight on anyone's scorecards (assuming they understand the criteria for scoring a fight), and without fouling.Interesting statement considering this is a Jack Dempsey thread. Kid I want you to watch this video of Dempsey-Gibbons and observe how often Dempsey willingly clinches, grabs and holds and hits.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6npcgZUQW4k

Now watch Ali-Frazier II.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3_avtL_Y_0

Certainly looks to these eyes that Ali did more punching, landed many more clean punches and clinched a hell of a lot less than Dempsey did in the Gibbons fight.

Kid Achilles
11-28-2006, 08:38 PM
Clinching is one thing, holding behind the head and pushing the head down is another.

I know Dempsey fouled and fought dirty at times: he hit low, he held and hit (as does Gibbons in that fight), as well as hit on the break. This is no secret to anyone who knows Dempsey. The current tangent in this thread is not about Dempsey though, but about Ali vs. Frazier II and Ali's fouling in that fight that went unpunished. I saw the 2nd Ali-Frazier fight recently: it was on television a few months ago. Ali held Frazier behind the head often and generally made it a lot less exciting of a fight than it could have been. I'm watching it again now and Frazier does uncharaceristically very well early on (despite getting wobbled a little in the 2nd, of which a great deal was made but he wasn't in much trouble if you ask me) when Ali is not holding as often. He scores with the cleaner and harder blows while Ali's punches are off and the ones that do land are not very flush. When it was on TV, I left that fight unimpressed with Ali's performance, perhaps because I had always been told it was a one sided affair. It was a close fight.

SABBATH
11-28-2006, 09:20 PM
A check of the scoring would show it was not a one-sided fight, however Ali landed more, cleaner punches than Frazier.

Regarding Ali's clinching here is referee Tony Perez and his reasoning for not penalizing Ali for "fouling".

"...I couldn't do anything because it was like Joe was happy laying on Ali's chest, waiting for me to break them apart. That's the way it was the whole fight. Joe would come in, punching, bobbing, weaving. He'd score one or two shots, and just lay there in a clinch like he was resting. All he had to do was bend at the knees. Get down low so Ali can't hold anymore...His own corner told him to do that, but it seemed like he was content to be in a clinch."

Ali's explanation for holding Frazier behind the head in the clinches was to prevent a clash of heads. Ali maintained that Frazier would try getting his head under Ali's chin, a common tactic used by experienced infighters (see Duran-Leonard I).

Dempsey 1919
11-29-2006, 06:34 PM
2nd fight was very close and Ali won it mainly illegally by holding around the neck. Depending on the ref, Frazier could have won it. Frazier won the first fight on anyone's scorecards (assuming they understand the criteria for scoring a fight), and without fouling.

The second fight wasn't that close. Frazier didn't get shut out, but Ali definetely outlanded him, and hurt Frazier, wheras, i can't recall any instance where Ali was in serious trouble. He used his legs more in the second fight than the first (or third for that matter), and he cleanly won the decision.

Dempsey 1919
11-29-2006, 07:54 PM
Interesting statement considering this is a Jack Dempsey thread. Kid I want you to watch this video of Dempsey-Gibbons and observe how often Dempsey willingly clinches, grabs and holds and hits.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6npcgZUQW4k

Now watch Ali-Frazier II.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3_avtL_Y_0

Certainly looks to these eyes that Ali did more punching, landed many more clean punches and clinched a hell of a lot less than Dempsey did in the Gibbons fight.

Haha, good observation SABBATH.

Kid Achilles
11-29-2006, 08:08 PM
That's Sabbath, not Yogi.

Dempsey 1919
11-29-2006, 08:11 PM
That's Sabbath, not Yogi.

Yeah, that's what I meant.:o

Yogi
11-29-2006, 08:12 PM
Well, I do remember a post from Sabbath (then Smasher) from quite some time ago and his statement was "Smasher = Yogi", so maybe we truly are one in the same.

SABBATH
11-30-2006, 12:34 AM
Well, I do remember a post from Sabbath (then Smasher) from quite some time ago and his statement was "Smasher = Yogi", so maybe we truly are one in the same.But only one of them can watch the killer whales while munching on a few of these...
http://www.dougbelcher.com/images/nanaimo-bar.jpg

Yogi
11-30-2006, 12:50 AM
Hey, I/we will not stand for anything that you/we...Wait. I/we must admit that that does look like a tasty treat, and I/we think that I/we should go out and get me/we some of that.

Kid Achilles
11-30-2006, 03:53 PM
What is that tasty looking treat?

SABBATH
11-30-2006, 04:08 PM
What is that tasty looking treat?It's called a Nanaimo bar named after it's British Columbian origin.

Dempsey 1919
12-01-2006, 12:20 AM
It's called a Nanaimo bar named after it's British Columbian origin.

It looks pretty good.

Yogi
12-01-2006, 01:42 AM
It looks pretty good.

You underrate too much, Butterfly.

Heckler
12-03-2006, 05:48 AM
Regarding Ali-Frazier II. Ali was definately in better shape, weighing in at 212 pounds.... he came in prepared with a respect for Joe he developed via the learning curve that was the fight in 71'. He really hurt Joe in the second round and continued to control the pace of the fight through to it's conclusion. Indeed he did use illegal tactics, he obviously realised that the ref was tolerant of these subtle fouls and used this to his advantage... he maximised his chances as many a great fighter did. Holding behind the neck or no holding behind the neck im rather certain Ali takes that fight.