Toney OWNED ruiz and ruiz clearly beat rahman, did toneys steroids help him that much or is rahm,an the ultimate streaky fighter who can beat alot of people but lose to anybody? or is toney just finally starting to slow down

well, styles make fights, but i wouldn't be surprised if the 37 year old toney is slowing down.

It is painfully obvious that Toney has slowed down...no need to even question that...it was apparent from ROUND 1...

what kept him in the fight was the simple fact that he IS James Toney (confidence, relaxation, skill, chin, experience, etc)...

but I feel he was outworked

Toney OWNED ruiz and ruiz clearly beat rahman,

Still following the triangle logic?

dude....that's fifth grade material right there. Styles make fights, and that's all there is to it.

A 220 lb (or lighter) Toney beats Rahman by Decision.

Unfortunately, the 237 lb Toney was exhausted very early in the fight.

Basically, I credit Rahman for getting in tremendous shape and utilizing the jab; however, despite all his efforts, I feel that a more fit Toney would have defeated him.

But, Toney killed himself this fight; he needed to be in better condition and weigh less.

So, I think it was a combination of both Rahman's execution and preparation and Toney's lack of fitness that led to the result we saw tonight.

:boxing:

Toney should retire.

Rock has to now fight Maskaev. Toney shouldn't have even been allowed this shot, since Maskaev had already won an eliminator. So now it is Rock-Maskaev. So Toney is shut out of the WBC belt for now.

Wlad-Byrd winner easily beats James, and he knows it. So not only should he stay away from this belt, but he has not earned a shot at it, just like he didn't rightfully earn a shot at the WBC belt. So no IBF belt for him.

No WBA belt for him since he's banned by them for 2 years for using steroids.

So he's left to try and fight contenders, and most top contenders will own him if that's the best shape he'll come in at. And that includes Brewster, who has a new confidence and snap to his punches that Toney wants nothing to do with, I'm sure. So forget the WBO belt.

Toney made a smart run at HW, picking and choosing fighters he thought he could beat. But I think the public has finally seen his limitations fighting a true, strong HW, even one that looked mediocre.

The HW division should move on as though the correct decision was announced instead of a draw.

Rock's broke, and money talks. He'd make more money fighting Toney again than he would fighting Maskaev.

Why dont we just put all these pretenders in the ring and blow up the heavyweight division along with the fighters :D , thats how much the dvision sucks now!

Somehow I'm glad it was a draw. Boxing needs James Toney.

Rock's broke, and money talks. He'd make more money fighting Toney again than he would fighting Maskaev.
but the WBC stated that maskaev would fight the winner of toney/rahman. so it'll either be toney/rahman 2 for not title cuz the WBC would probly strip rahman OR rahman/maskaev 2 which along with many will not watch or be intrested in.

nothing good comes out of this draw.

Give me a break,Toney is a freak show, boxing does not need Toney, what they need is a young heavyweight upcomer, Toney should quit!

Toney should retire.



Toney should get his mouth wired shut between fights.

The man has insane skills and a warrior's heart, but his weight has finally blatantly affected his ring performance in a negative way.

Rock's broke, and money talks. He'd make more money fighting Toney again than he would fighting Maskaev.

That's correct. And even if Tyson came back to fight against Butterbean that would sell out PPV in five seconds.

What it would determine about the future of the division would amount to zero times five........Times Ten.

Yes, but the WBC should never have allowed the first fight to take place. They'd be hard pressed to allow a 2nd fight, esp since most saw a clear winner in Rahman. And let's face it, does the WBC want James Toney to be their HW champ? They want their belt seen as legitimate, in the end, sanctioning fees or no. I think they nix a rematch and enforce Maskaev.

The real question is whether or not this would entice Vitali to make one final comeback fight to beat Rahman and get his belt back. Vitali could have beaten Rock tonight so easily... even with his knee in 3 braces and a cast.

i know this decision doesnt hlpe us find whos the nunber 1 guy
BUT!!!
it does legitamize toney that much more
he can now say he drew with the last guy that clearly beat and KOd the HW divisions last unquestionable ruler
plus he beat ruiz altho on riods who himself had a claim to being a legit HW champ
even if he is dull

This decision has to go down as one of the worse decisions.They clearly wanna set a rematch.

Yes, but the WBC should never have allowed the first fight to take place.

And why is that? Because Maskaev should have gotten the fight? That's great productive logic. :rolleyes:

Give me a break,Toney is a freak show, boxing does not need Toney, what they need is a young heavyweight upcomer, Toney should quit!

problem is, toney's ego doesnt allow him to quit...in addition, i dont think he will quit, i can see him boxing far too long and losing a few more decisions

And why is that? Because Maskaev should have gotten the fight? That's great productive logic. :rolleyes:

Do I really need to explain Eliminators to you? :rolleyes: And then compare that to a steroid disqualification loss and a win over a habitual loser named Dominick Guinn?

Why have an eliminator is the winner isn't going to get a shot at the title?

Now, PLEASE explain YOUR logic. :) Thanks!

Do I really need to explain Eliminators to you? :rolleyes: And then compare that to a steroid disqualification loss and a win over a habitual loser named Dominick Guinn?

Why have an eliminator is the winner isn't going to get a shot at the title?

Now, PLEASE explain YOUR logic. :) Thanks!


Anyone who believes Maskaev has actually earned any kind of title shot is fooling themselves.

He was looked over in the 1st place because it's a joke that he ever had that ranking.

I wouldn't be the least bit suprized to see a rematch happen because there would be more money in it.

Rock's broke, and money talks. He'd make more money fighting Toney again than he would fighting Maskaev.
ye and loose the belt, i dont think hell do dat...

ye and loose the belt, i dont think hell do dat...

Is that supposed to be english? :rolleyes:

bozo, not that i agree really with maskaev being the #1 wbc challenger, or rahman giving the belt without fighting for it for that matter, but i did see on ********* that rahman has to fight oleg next as he is allowed only one voluntary defense and then has to fight maskaev next.

so oleg vs hasim will most likely be the next wbc title fight. that is unless there is some influence on the general rules.

Anyone who believes Maskaev has actually earned any kind of title shot is fooling themselves.

He was looked over in the 1st place because it's a joke that he ever had that ranking.

I wouldn't be the least bit suprized to see a rematch happen because there would be more money in it.

Look, we all know Maskaev is very limited and is a fringe top-20 contender. He's not going anywhere, and if he happens to beat Rock (and the Rock that fought tonight is actually a winnable fight for Maskaev) then he'll lose the belt in his first defense.

BUT he did what you are supposed to do when you don't have a big name anymore and want to fight for the title. You suck it up, putyour nose to the grindstone, and go on the road, working your way up the ladder beating ranked contenders. And then you get to an eliminator for the #1 ranking which guarantees you a shot at the title. He won a string of fights against nobodies, yes, but he did what he was supposed to do according to the WBC. So the WBC's hands are tied. If they don't want to give Maskaev a shot, then they should have looked over their rankings a little closer.

But what's right is right, Maskaev has earned a shot at their title according to their rules. (And let's face it, this wouldn't be happening if the sanctioning bodies weren't such ****ing crybabies about ranking other titlists and if the titles weren't all still spread out from Don King's hold over the division, which has thankfully weakened).

bozo, not that i agree really with maskaev being the #1 wbc challenger, or rahman giving the belt without fighting for it for that matter, but i did see on ********* that rahman has to fight oleg next as he is allowed only one voluntary defense and then has to fight maskaev next.

so oleg vs hasim will most likely be the next wbc title fight. that is unless there is some influence on the general rules.


Influence on the rules, or general ignorance is what lead Maskaev to being ranked where he is presently, which is a joke.

With that logic used to get him there, anything can happen to suit the agenda of the WBC, who with Maskaev ranked at #1, obviosuly don't have a decision making process that's rooted in any kind of reality.

A Toney Rahman rematch would make more money, and it wouldn't suprize me to see events lead to it for that reason alone.

bozo, i completely agree.

although according to the "supposed" rules, the rock has to fight maskaev next, i wouldn't be surprised either if we saw toney/rahman 2 before then somehow.

bozo, i completely agree.

although according to the "supposed" rules, the rock has to fight maskaev next, i wouldn't be surprised either if we saw toney/rahman 2 before then somehow.


According to "supposed" rules, Maskaev should have been fighting tonight.

"Supposed" rules don't mean a lot with these ABC sanctioning bodies.

.....Rahman/Maskaev will not happen next and would bet real money that somehow Rahman/Toney will rematch.