View Full Version : Thrilla in Manilla - That should never happen again.


Heckler
03-15-2006, 03:29 AM
I just watched Manila again and i hope that a fight that brutal never occurs again. The amount of punishment dished out. The amount of punishment Ali took in the mid rounds was simply ridiculous. The later rounds in particular the 14th round is hard to watch, the number of unanswered right hands and flurries Joe took to the head whilst defenseless and essentially blind... im suprised he didn't incur major neurological damage himself. Joe's knees buckled multiple times, those punches just keep coming and you could see the blood flying... that fight should of been stopped then and there. Anyone that criticizes Futch for stopping that fight is nuts, another 3 minutes of that treatment and he mighta died. Frazier is definately, on par with a few others the toughest man to ever step between those ropes. He is one of the most underrated HW's of all time, and the lack of respect he gets is just bull****.

Yogi
03-15-2006, 04:55 AM
That fight was obviously quite brutal, especially the last few rounds of it when Ali really laid into Frazier and hurt him with what seemed to be every punch that he landed...But unlike yourself, Heckler, I'd personally LOVE to see as many fights like that as possible, because there's nothing like seeing two fighters (especially high quality fighters) lay everything on the line in hopes that they're the one with their hand raised at the end of the night.

Heckler
03-15-2006, 05:02 AM
I didn't mind it until the latter rounds. When a fighter is defenseless, and recieving multiple unanswered blows, knees buckling... its time to call it a night.

Look whats happened to fighters like gerald mcclellan.

Southpaw Stinger
03-15-2006, 11:06 AM
That fight was obviously quite brutal, especially the last few rounds of it when Ali really laid into Frazier and hurt him with what seemed to be every punch that he landed...But unlike yourself, Heckler, I'd personally LOVE to see as many fights like that as possible, because there's nothing like seeing two fighters (especially high quality fighters) lay everything on the line in hopes that they're the one with their hand raised at the end of the night

Damn right! I would pay a lot to see fights like that. Nothing beats it, two old rivals meeting for the final time in a brutal war that displays skill and bravery. Beats watching 12 rounds of Williams vs Harrison staring at each other...

smasher
03-15-2006, 11:45 AM
I just watched Manila again and i hope that a fight that brutal never occurs again. The amount of punishment dished out. The amount of punishment Ali took in the mid rounds was simply ridiculous. The later rounds in particular the 14th round is hard to watch, the number of unanswered right hands and flurries Joe took to the head whilst defenseless and essentially blind... im suprised he didn't incur major neurological damage himself. Joe's knees buckled multiple times, those punches just keep coming and you could see the blood flying... that fight should of been stopped then and there. Anyone that criticizes Futch for stopping that fight is nuts, another 3 minutes of that treatment and he mighta died. Frazier is definately, on par with a few others the toughest man to ever step between those ropes. He is one of the most underrated HW's of all time, and the lack of respect he gets is just bull****.
In stark comparison I watched Tyson-Ruddock I yesterday and it's laughable how quick Richard Steele was to jump in and 'save' Razor. I was never a huge fan of referee Carlos Padilla but in fairness to him I think he just got caught up in watching that great fight. He did say in a later interview that he was going to stop it in the 15th as soon as Frazier started to get hit again.

We all know however that if Padilla had stopped it anywhere from rounds 13-14 the Ali legend would be under attack for 'a fixed fight pre-mature stoppage' instead of today's flavour of the month 'Ali was going to quit.'

Heckler
03-15-2006, 08:08 PM
He did say in a later interview that he was going to stop it in the 15th as soon as Frazier started to get hit again. - ah thats good to hear, i was under the impression that the referee would of allowed Frazier, defenseless to get a beating for another 3 minutes.

Frazier's 15th round
03-16-2006, 03:14 AM
On my scorecard, Ali would have won Manila 7-6-2 if they both lasted the distance. You have to watch it closely to see that the punches landed on each were almost dead even until the last 3 rounds, where Ali hits him over and over. I had heard that Frazier landed 440 punches, so I figured Ali must have landed like 700, but watching the fight very closely, that's not true.

I gotta hand it to my man Ali for sucking it up in the last few rounds.

Fearless
03-16-2006, 05:31 AM
Someone have this on video?

I keep hearing about this fight... I have to see it!

Da Iceman
03-16-2006, 06:57 AM
omg this cant be true. a man who picks strawweights over ali finally own up. butterfly would love this

mokele
03-16-2006, 07:23 AM
All through Joe Frazier's career I cannot ever remember seeing him clinch. There have been only a handful of fighters like that in boxing history, almost all of them stalkers and punchers. Foreman rarely clinched, David Tua has never clinched to my knowledge, and surprisingly the rather slender Felix Trinidad never clinched in any of the fights of his that I saw. The same can be said for Julio Cesar Chavez. Rocky Marciano never clinched. I never saw Marvin Hagler clinch. The still very active Winky Wright never clinches. Suffice it to say that these are my favorite fighters.

Anyway, after the Frazier-Ali fight in Manila I remember reading somewhere years ago that Frazier would pick a spot on the body of an opponent and keep hammering that spot over and over, a few times every round when he got them pinned to the ropes. Ali could take a body shot better than just about any heavyweight I ever saw, but even he was suffering from Frazier's beating to the body. After Frazier cut the ring off and trapped Ali on the ropes, Ali would take 1 or 2 body shots and then tie up Frazier, holding him behind the head. This happened over and over, maybe 3 to 5 times every round. Frazier didn't land that many body shots, maybe only a few each round, but they were thrown with conviction and they mounted up. Ali wanted to quit after the 10th round of that fight but his corner pleaded with him to continue. He summoned the will to keep fighting and the rest is history.

Heckler
03-17-2006, 02:39 AM
Ali contemplated quitting, its Always up to the fighter. Ali wasn't a quitter, and we see the results of that today.

JAB5239
11-11-2008, 09:17 PM
I just watched Manila again and i hope that a fight that brutal never occurs again. The amount of punishment dished out. The amount of punishment Ali took in the mid rounds was simply ridiculous. The later rounds in particular the 14th round is hard to watch, the number of unanswered right hands and flurries Joe took to the head whilst defenseless and essentially blind... im suprised he didn't incur major neurological damage himself. Joe's knees buckled multiple times, those punches just keep coming and you could see the blood flying... that fight should of been stopped then and there. Anyone that criticizes Futch for stopping that fight is nuts, another 3 minutes of that treatment and he mighta died. Frazier is definately, on par with a few others the toughest man to ever step between those ropes. He is one of the most underrated HW's of all time, and the lack of respect he gets is just bull****.

Futch made the right call stopping the fight. But it would have been wrong for the ref to stop it. Joe was still game, coming forward and trying to win the fight. It would have been wrong for anyone besides himself or his corner to decide his fate in that fight. If he hjad just stopped punching and was only trying to survive I would agree. But the way it played, Im glad the ref stayed out of it.

Pride Of Arkans
11-11-2008, 09:30 PM
Ali got ****ed up and he deserved it
It's nice to see Joe getting the last laugh over that overrated *******.

TheGreatA
11-11-2008, 09:38 PM
Ali got ****ed up and he deserved it
It's nice to see Joe getting the last laugh over that overrated *******.

Is there any reason to have you on these boards?

It seems like all of your posts are about fighters being overrated bums.

Pride Of Arkans
11-11-2008, 09:40 PM
Ali is overrated anyone named the greatest has to be overrated
and there was so much Ali could not do like fight inside
or knock somebody out with a single punch.

I love watched Ali-Frazier 3 and Ali-Holmes
Ali deserved every single punch he took in those fights.

TheGreatA
11-11-2008, 09:42 PM
Ali is overrated anyone named the greatest has to be overrated
and there was so much Ali could not do like fight inside
or knock somebody out with a single punch.

I love watched Ali-Frazier 3 and Ali-Holmes
Ali deserved every single punch he took in those fights.

Ali said Robinson was the greatest.

He only claimed to be the greatest heavyweight of all time, which many agree with.

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Pride Of Arkans
11-11-2008, 09:43 PM
Larry Holmes, Joe Louis, Lennox Lewis and Evander Holyfield
rate above Ali and i could make a case for Marciano, Tyson and even Liston as well.

JAB5239
11-11-2008, 09:45 PM
Ali got ****ed up and he deserved it
It's nice to see Joe getting the last laugh over that overrated *******.

I get the jist of your classless remark, but just how did Joe get the last laugh? Ali went 2-1 against Frazier and is one of, if not the most beloved athlete of all times. Frazier obviously enhances Ali's reputation as a fighter, but without him Ali would still be a legend. Joe was a great fighter. But without Ali he would have been largely forgotten except as the man who was twice crushed by George Foreman.

JAB5239
11-11-2008, 09:48 PM
Larry Holmes, Joe Louis, Lennox Lewis and Evander Holyfield
rate above Ali and i could make a case for Marciano, Tyson and even Liston as well.

Please make those cases then. I promise they will be not only laughed at, but torn to shreds. The ONLY person who can be argued a greater heavyweight than ali is Joe Louis. And as a loyal Joe Louis fan, even that is debatable.

TheGreatA
11-11-2008, 09:49 PM
Larry Holmes, Joe Louis, Lennox Lewis and Evander Holyfield
rate above Ali and i could make a case for Marciano, Tyson and even Liston as well.

Ridiculous.

As you can see in the video, at an old age Ali also said that Louis was better than he was.

I get the jist of your classless remark, but just how did Joe get the last laugh?

I'm pretty sure he is talking about the Parkinson's that Ali is now suffering from.

Classless, as you said.

Ali could be an arrogant prick back in the day but it's time to get over it.

Pride Of Arkans
11-11-2008, 09:52 PM
I get the jist of your classless remark, but just how did Joe get the last laugh?

Because Ali cant walk or talk right
where as Frazier is still doing well for himself.

Thats what mouthy muslim scumbags get
Frazier had a big part in ****ing Ali up
and for that he can hold his head high.

By the way Ali couldnt punch
so there is no way he could keep Tyson of him
Lewis is too big and has better boxing skills than Ali.

TheGreatA
11-11-2008, 09:55 PM
Because Ali cant walk or talk right
where as Frazier is still doing well for himself.

Thats what mouthy muslim scumbags get
Frazier had a big part in ****ing Ali up
and for that he can hold his head high.

By the way Ali couldnt punch
so there is no way he could keep Tyson of him
Lewis is too big and has better boxing skills than Ali.

:pat:

You are ignorant and won't last long in these forums with that attitude.

Kid McCoy
11-11-2008, 09:56 PM
Bear in mind that this is the same guy who thinks Marvin Hagler and James Toney were "****".

Pride Of Arkans
11-11-2008, 10:00 PM
**** these forums if they want to ban me they can go right ahead
its full of dumb yanks anyway and nearly every thread made is filled with american tears.

Hagler, Ali and Toney all ****
Hopkins, Leonard and Holmes all legends.

TheGreatA
11-11-2008, 10:04 PM
**** these forums if they want to ban me they can go right ahead
its full of dumb yanks anyway and nearly every thread made is filled with american tears.

Hagler, Ali and Toney all ****
Hopkins, Leonard and Holmes all legends.

I take it you were a Henry Cooper/Alan Minter fan back in the day? Or maybe I'm wrong in assuming you are British.

I can see how you could be turned off by the trash talking of Toney and Ali but why would you hate Hagler then?

Hopkins is a "mouthy muslim" as well.

fight_professor
11-11-2008, 10:04 PM
I just watched Manila again and i hope that a fight that brutal never occurs again. The amount of punishment dished out. The amount of punishment Ali took in the mid rounds was simply ridiculous. The later rounds in particular the 14th round is hard to watch, the number of unanswered right hands and flurries Joe took to the head whilst defenseless and essentially blind... im suprised he didn't incur major neurological damage himself. Joe's knees buckled multiple times, those punches just keep coming and you could see the blood flying... that fight should of been stopped then and there. Anyone that criticizes Futch for stopping that fight is nuts, another 3 minutes of that treatment and he mighta died. Frazier is definately, on par with a few others the toughest man to ever step between those ropes. He is one of the most underrated HW's of all time, and the lack of respect he gets is just bull****.

greatest fight ever. i have it in my collection and its awe inspiring. agree smoke is underrated, i pick him to beat most other top HW in history.

JAB5239
11-11-2008, 10:05 PM
Because Ali cant walk or talk right
where as Frazier is still doing well for himself.

Thats what mouthy muslim scumbags get
Frazier had a big part in ****ing Ali up
and for that he can hold his head high.

Micheal J. Fox and thousands of others have the same disease as Ali. should we give Frazier credit for that too? That said, no self respecting person would hold their head high by causing greivous injury in a sporting event.

By the way Ali couldnt punch
so there is no way he could keep Tyson of him
Lewis is too big and has better boxing skills than Ali.

This is what you've got? Lmao!!!:pat: Mitch Green, Tony Tucker and James Tillis all went the distance with Tyson. Douglas knocked him out. Not only was Ali better than all of them BY FAR, his head games would have Mike tied up in knots weeks before the fight even happened.

Lewis I give much credit to. But he didn't have better skills than Ali and didn't fight the same level comp either.

Pride Of Arkans
11-11-2008, 10:08 PM
I take it you were a Henry Cooper/Alan Minter fan back in the day?

No believe it or not i do not back fighters because they are British
I wish Calzaghe and Hatton well but they are not my favorite fighters
far from it and i ****ing hate Amir Khan and Nassem Hamed.

Lennox Lewis was the only British fighter i really liked
Liston and Hearns where my favorites back then.

JAB5239
11-11-2008, 10:08 PM
greatest fight ever. i have it in my collection and its awe inspiring. agree smoke is underrated, i pick him to beat most other top HW in history.

No doubt ONE of the greatest fights ever. Personaly I think their first fight was even better, but thats just me.

fight_professor
11-11-2008, 10:09 PM
**** these forums if they want to ban me they can go right ahead
its full of dumb yanks anyway and nearly every thread made is filled with american tears.

Hagler, Ali and Toney all ****
Hopkins, Leonard and Holmes all legends.

"peeleft: hates muslims yet sucks hopkins and tyson's c*cks. lol, they are both muslims you twat.

JAB5239
11-11-2008, 10:10 PM
I take it you were a Henry Cooper/Alan Minter fan back in the day?

No believe it or not i do not back fighters because they are British
I wish Calzaghe and Hatton well but they are not my favorite fighters
far from it and i ****ing hate Amir Khan and Nassem Hamed.

Lennox Lewis was the only British fighter i really liked
Liston and Hearns where my favorites back then.

Lmao again!! The same Liston Ali twice trumped? No wonder you're bitter.

Pride Of Arkans
11-11-2008, 10:11 PM
I dont like Tyson he's overrated and **** just like Ali
but i would fancy him against Ali.

Lennox Lewis, Evander Holyfeild, Larry Holmes and Joe Louis
they are the greatest heavyweights who ever lived
forget Tyson and Ali because they are just over hyped bums.

JAB5239
11-11-2008, 10:12 PM
Larry Holmes, Joe Louis, Lennox Lewis and Evander Holyfield
rate above Ali and i could make a case for Marciano, Tyson and even Liston as well.

Still waiting for you to make those cases.:usa2:

fight_professor
11-11-2008, 10:13 PM
forget Tyson and Ali because they are just over hyped bums.

i know you must be a troll. no one can think that if they know ANYTHING about this fight game. :boxing:

JAB5239
11-11-2008, 10:20 PM
I dont like Tyson he's overrated and **** just like Ali
but i would fancy him against Ali.

Lennox Lewis, Evander Holyfeild, Larry Holmes and Joe Louis
they are the greatest heavyweights who ever lived
forget Tyson and Ali because they are just over hyped bums.

Ok, you said Tyson before but know you're retracting it. Funny.

How do you rate Lewis higher when he fought less talented fighters than Ali and was twice one punched into unconsciousness by two fighters considered average on the world class stage?

Im dying to hear you explain how Holy is better than Ali. Please do.

Holmes was great, no doubt there. But he didn't fight the best fighters in a reletively soft era and failed to give rematched to Carl Williams and Tim Witherspoon who both arguably beat him.

Now what about Marciano and Liston?

Pride Of Arkans
11-11-2008, 10:20 PM
Holmes would beat Ali because he is a better version of Ali
his jab is better and he has more punch power
to top it off his chin is just as good.

Lennox would beat Ali because he's bigger, stronger
he punches harder and he fights better on the inside
i doubt Ali could hurt Lewis and Lennox just has more.

Lewis is a smart fighter with a great jab and Ali cant deal with it.

Joe Louis would beat Ali because Louis is p4p the most skilled fighter of all time
his jab, his combinations, his power as well as his accuracy
is second to none. a complete fighter and a legend.

Holyfield against Ali is a close match up
but Evander's a legend and has beaten so many great fighters
i just fancy him in this fight but maybe i am just bias about this fight.

JAB5239
11-11-2008, 10:24 PM
Ridiculous.

As you can see in the video, at an old age Ali also said that Louis was better than he was.



I'm pretty sure he is talking about the Parkinson's that Ali is now suffering from.

Classless, as you said.

Ali could be an arrogant prick back in the day but it's time to get over it.

Many people say stupid things in their youth only to look back and say to themselves, "what the hell was I thinking" as they've gotten older. Im sure Ali was no exception. But like you said.....its time to get over it.

JAB5239
11-11-2008, 10:32 PM
Holmes would beat Ali because he is a better version of Ali
his jab is better and he has more punch power
to top it off his chin is just as good.

Than what happened with those two youthful world beaters in Witherspoon and Williams that Holmes would never give a rematch to? And to say his chin is as good as ali's when looking at their respective comp is just plain funny.

Lennox would beat Ali because he's bigger, stronger
he punches harder and he fights better on the inside
i doubt Ali could hurt Lewis and Lennox just has more.
Lewis is a smart fighter with a great jab and Ali cant deal with it.

Holyfield.....the older version twice dealt with it and many thought even won the second time. Ali is a bigger, faster, tougher and more skilled fighter than Holy, yet he couldn't hang?:pat:Bwaahhhaaahaahaa!!

Joe Louis would beat Ali because Louis is p4p the most skilled fighter of all time
his jab, his combinations, his power as well as his accuracy
is second to none. a complete fighter and a legend.

Only fighter where a resonable argument can be made.

Holyfield against Ali is a close match up
but Evander's a legend and has beaten so many great fighters
i just fancy him in this fight but maybe i am just bias about this fight.

Yeah, you must be. Holyfield has beaten so many great fighters? What did Ali do?

Pride Of Arkans
11-11-2008, 10:40 PM
Than what happened with those two youthful world beaters in Witherspoon and Williams
that Holmes would never give a rematch to?

So what he had two close decision wins
he also had two close decision defeats against Spinks
he could of easily got those two victorys.


And to say his chin is as good as ali's when looking at their respective comp is just plain funny.

Holmes fought some big punchers
and Ali was dropped by guys like Webbner and Cooper
who are both c-level fighters if we are being honest.

If you get a chance check out some sparring videos of Holmes and Ali
Larry got the better of the sparring and he got the better of the real fight too.

Holyfield.....the older version twice dealt with it and many thought even won the second time.
Ali is a bigger, faster, tougher and more skilled fighter than Holy, yet he couldn't hang?

Who thought Holyfield won ? its not my problem people cant score fights
Ali is bigger than Holyfield ? not really Evander packs a better punch.

Yeah, you must be. Holyfield has beaten so many great fighters? What did Ali do?

Its close Moorer, Tyson and Bowe are great wins
as are Foreman, Frazier and Liston
Im not sure who beat the better fighters maybe Ali.

Kid McCoy
11-11-2008, 10:53 PM
Its close Moorer, Tyson and Bowe are great wins
as are Foreman, Frazier and Liston
Im not sure who beat the better fighters maybe Ali.

Holyfield also lost to Moorer, and lost two out of three against Bowe. He got a gift draw against Lewis and lost the rematch. Do you mean Tyson the "overhyped bum" who had fought less than eight competitive rounds in the previous five years? What are the great wins which put him above Ali? Buster Douglas? 42 year old Big George?

TheGreatA
11-11-2008, 10:56 PM
Many people say stupid things in their youth only to look back and say to themselves, "what the hell was I thinking" as they've gotten older. Im sure Ali was no exception. But like you said.....its time to get over it.

You should take a look at a then and now interview with Ali (unless you've already seen it).

He is wiser than ever despite the Parkinson's which only affects his speech, not his mind.

Ali was still able to be ironic about himself, even while saying all kinds of controversial things when he was younger. One moment he would argue with you about religion and politics and the next moment he would make you laugh at his jokes.

There live a great man named Joe
who was belittled by a loudmouth foe.
While his rival would taunt and tease
Joe silently bore the stings.
And then fought like gladiator in the ring.
-Muhammad Ali

Ali had great respect for Frazier despite the things he said about him when promoting their three fights.

The man who views the world at 50 the same as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.
-Muhammad Ali

I'm sure we can all agree with that.

Holmes fought some big punchers
and Ali was dropped by guys like Webbner and Cooper
who are both c-level fighters if we are being honest.

Earnie Shavers nearly knocked Holmes out cold but never got Ali off his feet. According to Shavers, he could have knocked out any man with the punches he landed on Ali, he said Ali's chin was abnormal.

Wepner "knockdown" was hardly a knockdown.

The Henry Cooper KD just proves that any man can get knocked down by anyone if hit in the right spot, especially at 21 years of age.
In his next fight Ali took Liston's best punches (I bet you'll say the fight was fixed).

Pride Of Arkans
11-11-2008, 11:02 PM
Earnie Shavers nearly knocked Holmes out cold but never got Ali off his feet.

Shavers did not nearly knockout Holmes. Shavers was himself stopped by Holmes
Ali never came close to stopping Shavers but Holmes did it.

Wepner "knockdown" was hardly a knockdown

Ok fair enough but Wepner should of not gone that far with Ali

Ali took Liston's best punches (I bet you'll say the fight was fixed).

I cant remember Liston ever landed anything big on Ali
and a lot of that has to do with the fight being fixed

JAB5239
11-11-2008, 11:18 PM
So what he had two close decision wins
he also had two close decision defeats against Spinks
he could of easily got those two victorys.

Spinks gave Holmes the rematch. Larry didn't provide the same concession to two young fightesr who many would argue should have gotten the nod in their respective fights. Ali gave rematches to some of the best heavyweight to ever lace up the gloves.

Holmes fought some big punchers
and Ali was dropped by guys like Webbner and Cooper
who are both c-level fighters if we are being honest.

Its Wepner, and he clearly stepped on Ali's foot. As far as Cooper goes....Ali got caught and was hurt, but was up almost immedietly and stopped 'Enry in the next round. Holmes was dropped by Renaldo snipes. Whats your point?

If you get a chance check out some sparring videos of Holmes and Ali
Larry got the better of the sparring and he got the better of the real fight too.

This is ignorance at its best. Holmes beat an old and shot Ali. In his autobiography Holmes talks much about how much he learned from Ali and how he wasn't the same fighter in his later years of sparring with him.

Who thought Holyfield won ? its not my problem people cant score fights
Ali is bigger than Holyfield ? not really Evander packs a better punch.

Second fight was close. If Lewis wasn't robbed in the first fight I would bet there would of been more cries for a Holyfield victory, or at least a draw in the second fight.

Ali was bigger than Evander, and I would be happy to do a comparison of who had more ko's over top competition at heavyweight. Just say the word.

Its close Moorer, Tyson and Bowe are great wins
as are Foreman, Frazier and Liston
Im not sure who beat the better fighters maybe Ali.

The same Moorer he had lost to before? The same Tyson who was a shell of himself and hadn't had a really impressive showing in 7 or 8 years? And didn't Holy lose 2 out of 3 to Bowe?

Ali took two out of three to all time great Frazier. Both fights to Liston who was deemed indestuctable. And the ever famous "Rumble in the jungle" over Foreman who was perhaps the most feared heavyweight ever going intop that fight.

Please tell me you can do better than this.

JAB5239
11-11-2008, 11:22 PM
[QUOTE=TheManchine;4314620]You should take a look at a then and now interview with Ali (unless you've already seen it).

He is wiser than ever despite the Parkinson's which only affects his speech, not his mind.

Ali was still able to be ironic about himself, even while saying all kinds of controversial things when he was younger. One moment he would argue with you about religion and politics and the next moment he would make you laugh at his jokes.


-Muhammad Ali

Ali had great respect for Frazier despite the things he said about him when promoting their three fights.


-Muhammad Ali

I'm sure we can all agree with that.


Great stuff Manchine. I had never heard that Frazier poem before.

Ziggy Stardust
11-11-2008, 11:43 PM
Futch was right on in stopping the fight. I myself might have been tempted to stop it after the 13th seeing has how Frazier's eye was completely closed but certainly the beating he got in the 14th would have cinched it for me.....as it did Eddie Futch.

Yogi is right on the money: It's so rare to see two ATGs really laying it on the line and digging down and coming up with reserves they didn't even know they had these days. Championship fights these days really miss the kind of drama that 15 rounds contests provided. I miss the "championship rounds" :boxing:

Poet

TheGreatA
11-12-2008, 12:30 AM
Shavers did not nearly knockout Holmes. Shavers was himself stopped by Holmes
Ali never came close to stopping Shavers but Holmes did it.

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2:18

Holmes said he was out before he hit the canvas against Shavers, sheer determination got him up.

Ali came close to stopping Shavers in the last round, 30 more seconds and he may have done it.

I cant remember Liston ever landed anything big on Ali
and a lot of that has to do with the fight being fixed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOHiNUVPuHA
7:45

That punch would've surely knocked out Floyd Patterson.

JAB5239
11-12-2008, 01:32 AM
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2:18

Holmes said he was out before he hit the canvas against Shavers, sheer determination got him up.

Ali came close to stopping Shavers in the last round, 30 more seconds and he may have done it.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOHiNUVPuHA
7:45

That punch would've surely knocked out Floyd Patterson.

He's finished with this thread.

Miburo
11-12-2008, 09:42 AM
Would have probably gone better had Frazier not been blinded in one eye by a cataract. He was fighting on pure instinct at the end.

Ziggy Stardust
11-12-2008, 10:06 AM
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2:18

Holmes said he was out before he hit the canvas against Shavers, sheer determination got him up.

Ali came close to stopping Shavers in the last round, 30 more seconds and he may have done it.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOHiNUVPuHA
7:45

That punch would've surely knocked out Floyd Patterson.

TheManchine comes through again! :boxing:

Poet

Ziggy Stardust
11-12-2008, 10:13 AM
Someone have this on video?

I keep hearing about this fight... I have to see it!

Here you go Fearless:

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=QJVYYE45

No boxing fan should go through life without seeing THIS fight! :boxing:

Poet

Ziggy Stardust
11-12-2008, 10:15 AM
You should take a look at a then and now interview with Ali (unless you've already seen it).

He is wiser than ever despite the Parkinson's which only affects his speech, not his mind.

Ali was still able to be ironic about himself, even while saying all kinds of controversial things when he was younger. One moment he would argue with you about religion and politics and the next moment he would make you laugh at his jokes.


-Muhammad Ali

Ali had great respect for Frazier despite the things he said about him when promoting their three fights.


-Muhammad Ali

I'm sure we can all agree with that.



Earnie Shavers nearly knocked Holmes out cold but never got Ali off his feet. According to Shavers, he could have knocked out any man with the punches he landed on Ali, he said Ali's chin was abnormal.

Wepner "knockdown" was hardly a knockdown.

The Henry Cooper KD just proves that any man can get knocked down by anyone if hit in the right spot, especially at 21 years of age.
In his next fight Ali took Liston's best punches (I bet you'll say the fight was fixed).

[QUOTE]


Great stuff Manchine. I had never heard that Frazier poem before.

Jab, The Manchine, I'd take this guy on too but you two are doing such a good job slapping him around I figured I'd just watch and enjoy :D

Poet

JAB5239
11-12-2008, 10:15 AM
Here you go Fearless:

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=QJVYYE45

No boxing fan should go through life without seeing THIS fight! :boxing:

Poet

Very, very true. An excellent fight!

Ziggy Stardust
11-12-2008, 10:22 AM
Please make those cases then. I promise they will be not only laughed at, but torn to shreds. The ONLY person who can be argued a greater heavyweight than ali is Joe Louis. And as a loyal Joe Louis fan, even that is debatable.

No ****! I'm about the biggest Joe Louis fan that ever lived, he's my all-time favorite fighter, and at the risk of sounding corny and juvenile he's my personal hero. Even so I rank Ali as the #1 ATG Heavyweight because watching the fights I believe that's just an objective assesment.

Poet

Ziggy Stardust
11-12-2008, 10:27 AM
I dont like Tyson he's overrated and **** just like Ali
but i would fancy him against Ali.

Lennox Lewis, Evander Holyfeild, Larry Holmes and Joe Louis
they are the greatest heavyweights who ever lived
forget Tyson and Ali because they are just over hyped bums.

Mike Tyson was certainly over-hyped and to his Kool-Aid drinking nuthuggers overrated as well.....BUT he was NOT a bum. The man in arguably an ATG and certainly no worse than a near-great. Bum? Give me a break! While he may not crack my top 5 ATG (and sometimes not make my top 10) the dude could fight ffs.

Poet

Richie-G
11-12-2008, 02:24 PM
i would love to see more fights like it, and i heard that the israel vazquez - rafeal marquez trilogy was great but i cant find it anywhere, does anyone know where i can watch it?

Ziggy Stardust
11-12-2008, 03:51 PM
i would love to see more fights like it, and i heard that the israel vazquez - rafeal marquez trilogy was great but i cant find it anywhere, does anyone know where i can watch it?

I have the trilogy and am schedualed to upload it sometime soon here. Let me see what I can do to get it to you sooner. It's a very good three fight series.

Poet

The Jackal
11-12-2008, 06:28 PM
Saw a doc on tv last night called True storys:"The Thrilla In Manila" Very good but dark how far 2 men were prepared to go at each others egos was brutal but they weren't fighting for the HW title they were fighting for the title of each other blinded by common sense they never saw how close someone came to dying for those who think the sport is just glamour & coined phraises its not if ever there was anything called upon in a fighter it was that fight Joe Frazier was asked if he'd have foguht the 15th round knowing he would die he said yes straight away.
This doc didn't show all the fun side of things but fucoses more on the tauthing Ali gave Frazier it didn't paint a very nice picture of Ali as seen by the rest of the world but had Frazier not been pulled Ali was going to have his gloves cut off i think its the greatest fight ever fought given the heat circumstance etc & a bad taste for each other this doc isn't The Closest Thing To Dying but very different & dark.:boxing:

Richie-G
11-13-2008, 01:21 PM
I have the trilogy and am schedualed to upload it sometime soon here. Let me see what I can do to get it to you sooner. It's a very good three fight series.

Poet
cheers mate

Smokin'J
11-13-2008, 01:41 PM
Love it when people talk about Frazier in this way, makes me feel warm from inside
(yes im a Frazier nuthugger)

Ziggy Stardust
11-13-2008, 02:17 PM
I'm not a Frazier nuthugger but I AM a Frazier fan and it sickens me to see how forgotten he is by such a large swath of boxing "fans". How soon people's memories slip! Sometimes it seems to me that to a large number of posters if they didn't see it on HBO in the past year it never happend.

Poet

Smokin'J
11-13-2008, 02:43 PM
Meh its the generations to be honest no one around me knows Frazier until I tell them about him, but everyone knows Ali, I remember going to this village in the middle eastern and was checking youtube I think it was Gatti vs Ward highlight and this guy walked up on me and actually started talking to me about the Ali Foreman fight(Talk about being famous)
I was stunned yet smiled, Ali, he was the man

Ziggy Stardust
11-13-2008, 06:36 PM
Meh its the generations to be honest no one around me knows Frazier until I tell them about him, but everyone knows Ali, I remember going to this village in the middle eastern and was checking youtube I think it was Gatti vs Ward highlight and this guy walked up on me and actually started talking to me about the Ali Foreman fight(Talk about being famous)
I was stunned yet smiled, Ali, he was the man

It's hard to believe after all these years but Muhammed Ali is STILL the most famous man on the planet. You could go to Borneo or Outer-Mongolia and people will know EXACTLY who Muhammed Ali is, what he looks like, and what he did.

Poet

leppard365
11-13-2008, 06:39 PM
The fight stopped in the 14th round, had it gone on to a 15th round one of the fighters would have died.

Not words from me but words from Joe Fraziers trainer.

Chilling.

Ziggy Stardust
11-13-2008, 06:42 PM
The fight stopped in the 14th round, had it gone on to a 15th round one of the fighters would have died.

Not words from me but words from Joe Fraziers trainer.

Chilling.

That's why they pay wise men like Eddie Futch to decide when enough is enough.

Poet

Arka
11-13-2008, 08:08 PM
The fight stopped in the 14th round, had it gone on to a 15th round one of the fighters would have died.

Not words from me but words from Joe Fraziers trainer.

Chilling.

I remember Gil Clancy,the trainer, on ESPN saying that, if it was him in Frazier's corner, he would have allowed him to go out for the fifteenth round.

That's the only professional I know-apart from Frazier of course-who disagreed with Futch's decision.


BTW the 1971 FOTC was the best fight of the trilogy, in my opinion

JulioCesaChavez
11-13-2008, 08:12 PM
What if he made a comeback? Then what. The ref did right to leave it up to Eddie Futch. It will never be a safe sport, wtf they are punching each other. 15 down to 12, make it 10 and there will still be people getting hurt. ACCEPT it as it is before we end up with 3 two minute rounds! Anyway, the stats prove that footballers are more likely to get pugilistica dementia in their old age than boxers. Are they gonna ban headers in training and/or games? Stevie Gerrard would never have had this glorious moment:

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_pW6mtaXE_WM/R1SN2dxNc-I/AAAAAAAAD_I/Kf_QlGaj3HY/eurofinal20.jpg

I always suspected that dizzy feeling when flicking it on was more dangerous than shots that can be rolled with, but I still do it even if it affects my IQ. Doesn't matter now cos I've finished uni and got my peice of paper! I know about the risks to my lower limbs too, and have suffered career threatening injuries but still play and still box. Everyone knows that sport is not safe but we still go ahead with it. All this health and safety **** is pissing me off. Nowadays the whole world expects everything to be safe and if all these pc bums had their way, we'd all be wrapped in cotton wool! Bring back 8oz Reyes to world title fights too.

Ziggy Stardust
11-13-2008, 08:15 PM
I remember Gil Clancy,the trainer, on ESPN saying that, if it was him in Frazier's corner, he would have allowed him to go out for the fifteenth round.

That's the only professional I know-apart from Frazier of course-who disagreed with Futch's decision.


BTW the 1971 FOTC was the best fight of the trilogy, in my opinion

I lean towards agreeing with you on 1971 fight being the best of the 3 but it's a tough pick since Manila was such a terrific fight.

Honestly, I think less of Clancy as a trainer if he indeed said that. He has rocks in head and is abrogating a trainer's primary obligation which is to see to the safety of his fighter.

Poet

Ziggy Stardust
11-13-2008, 08:17 PM
What if he made a comeback? Then what. The ref did right to leave it up to Eddie Futch. It will never be a safe sport, wtf they are punching each other. 15 down to 12, make it 10 and there will still be people getting hurt. ACCEPT it as it is before we end up with 3 two minute rounds! Anyway, the stats prove that footballers are more likely to get pugilistica dementia in their old age than boxers. Are they gonna ban headers in training and/or games? Stevie Gerrard would never have had this glorious moment:

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_pW6mtaXE_WM/R1SN2dxNc-I/AAAAAAAAD_I/Kf_QlGaj3HY/eurofinal20.jpg

I always suspected that dizzy feeling when flicking it on was more dangerous than shots that can be rolled with, but I still do it even if it affects my IQ. Doesn't matter now cos I've finished uni and got my peice of paper! I know about the risks to my lower limbs too, and have suffered career threatening injuries but still play and still box. Everyone knows that sport is not safe but we still go ahead with it. All this health and safety **** is pissing me off. Nowadays the whole world expects everything to be safe and if all these pc bums had their way, we'd all be wrapped in cotton wool! Bring back 8oz Reyes to world title fights too.

Piss off Rafael Benitez and go back to a thread that's more on your intellectual level: You're out of your league in legitimate threads.

Poet

TheGreatA
11-14-2008, 01:27 AM
:pat:

You are ignorant and won't last long in these forums with that attitude.

Atleast he cannot say that I didn't warn him.

Clancy said he thought that Ali was about to collapse any moment and Frazier could've dropped him with one solid punch. Ali did fall down from exhaustion after the fight and often said he would not have come out for the 15th round but I guess we will never know.

I would never criticize Futch for his decision though, it was a brutal fight and Frazier was completely blind with his good eye all swollen up.