View Full Version : Best Of These Lhw?


Heckler
03-13-2006, 09:48 PM
So, whose the greatest out of these LHW.

SuzieQ49
03-13-2006, 09:52 PM
ezzard charles

Yogi
03-13-2006, 10:06 PM
Sam Langford > All of Them

Dempsey 1919
03-13-2006, 10:09 PM
anyone who doesn't pick either moore or charles are retards. it's a close call. either moore or charles.

Yogi
03-13-2006, 10:12 PM
anyone who doesn't pick either moore or charles are retards. it's a close call. either moore or charles.

So...are you calling me a retard then, Butterfly?

Dempsey 1919
03-13-2006, 10:27 PM
So...are you calling me a retard then, Butterfly?

i meant what they had in the poll choices. i'm not sure about langford; don't know that much about him at lheavy.

SuzieQ49
03-13-2006, 10:35 PM
sam langford is a good choice,



charles, moore, langford are my top 3 light-H

Heckler
03-13-2006, 11:18 PM
Dont know much about langford, not many people know about him either, hence i didn't include him sorry.

Yogi
03-14-2006, 12:02 AM
charles, moore, langford are my top 3 light-H

Mine too...At least they were last time I cared enough to compile all-time divisional rankings, and either one of them make a very solid choice in that number one position (for various & different reasons).

hellfire508
03-14-2006, 12:53 AM
This is a very rough list, because I'm not big at all on the LH division.

1. Ezzard Charles
2. Archie Moore
3. Sam Langford
4. Bob Foster
5. Michael Spinks
6. Billy Conn
7. Gene Tunney
8. Roy Jones Jr

Da Iceman
03-14-2006, 07:38 AM
i hate when people pick langford for poles and **** when theyve never seen him fight, he could be slow as a ox and you would pick him over roy jones

Yaman
03-14-2006, 09:06 AM
Roy Jones JR by far.

SuzieQ49
03-14-2006, 03:13 PM
my top 10 light-H


1. ezzard charles
2. archie moore
3. sam langford
4. michael spinks
5. billy conn
6. bob foster
7. gene tunney
8. john henry lewis
9. tommy loughran
10. harold johnson

Dempsey 1919
03-14-2006, 03:18 PM
Roy Jones JR by far.

you don't know **** about lhw's.

RockyMarcianofan00
03-14-2006, 05:04 PM
Charles,Moore, and IMO tunney

can't really pick because both Charles and Moore both became suceesful HW and were outstanding LHW

Tunney beat Dempsey (3 times i belive) and collectively through all the fights Dempsey won 2 or 3 rounds if i'm not mistaken, granted Dempsey should have won the "long count" but if tunney could do that good against a hw like Dempsey i can't imagine what he'd do at lhw

Yaman
03-14-2006, 05:07 PM
you don't know **** about lhw's.


Jones is from a whole diffirent world of boxing. Those oldies didn't have the tecnical tools to outpoint Jones. Not to mention they weren't as fast.

Dempsey 1919
03-14-2006, 05:22 PM
Jones is from a whole diffirent world of boxing. Those oldies didn't have the tecnical tools to outpoint Jones. Not to mention they weren't as fast.

ezzard charles would handle his ass with ease. so would archie moore.

SuzieQ49
03-14-2006, 05:26 PM
who has roy jones beat at 175 that shows you he could take the likes of a ezzard charles?

Dempsey 1919
03-14-2006, 05:28 PM
who has roy jones beat at 175 that shows you he could take the likes of a ezzard charles?

i'll answer that one for you. NO ONE!

RockyMarcianofan00
03-14-2006, 05:31 PM
ezzard charles would handle his ass with ease. so would archie moore.
ya know if butterfly says anything positive about fighters from the 50's its probably because its true

IMO, Roy Jones Jr is probably one of the better fighters of today but Prime Archie Moore and Ezzard Charles fighting him in LHW division have a pretty good chance at beating him IMO

Charles lost some of his respect because he had lost many fights when he went up too hw, then again he won many fights

Archie Moore is underrated, remember he has over 130 KO's, he didn't really Care who he was fighting IMO whether it be ezzard Charles, Rocky Marciano, Muhammad Ali he'd fight anyone that they put in front of him and quite often he won, he beat Joey Maxim for the lhw title, and lost to Marciano for the hw belt, and then lost to Floyd Patterson, and Muhammad Ali, he had alot of heart and he really only lost to the Best IMO, look at his losses you can't discredit him for most of those losses

sometimes he'd lose and win a rematch (Harold Johnson, so he was a really good fighter
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c49/IrishInsomniac00/Archie-Moore--C10104813.jpg
W 186 (131 ko's) | L 23 | D 11 | Total 221

he fought for nearly 30 years so, he had more Ko's then most people have fights

Dempsey 1919
03-14-2006, 05:37 PM
ya know if butterfly says anything positive about fighters from the 50's its probably because its true

thank you, rockymarcianofan00. :)

Yogi
03-14-2006, 05:37 PM
i hate when people pick langford for poles and **** when theyve never seen him fight, he could be slow as a ox and you would pick him over roy jones

Yeah, and I hate when assumptions are made by the ignorant who are unaware that there is footage of Langford in his prime and many people have seen it (it was broadcast on ESPN Classic in the past couple of years).

I have his fights with Lang & Flynn and he is by no means "slow as a ox" in them (the footage of him vs. Lang seems to be at a completely normal speed, judging by the referee's movement around the ring...the footage of Langford/Flynn is harder to tell due to the missing frames/jerkiness, but it's pretty close). Strong "as an ox", yes, because the footage of Langford fighting clearly shows him outmuscling bigger men during portions of the fight. The footage also shows an extremely talented, hard punching, and agressive boxer/puncher, who with these eyes just may have been the most impressive fighter on film from around that era and shortly thereafter.

TheGreat1
03-14-2006, 08:58 PM
I'm going with M. Moorer, who won every one of his LHW fights by KO. Moorer was a beast at LHW

Da Iceman
03-14-2006, 09:15 PM
no the hell he didnt, he didnt ko joey maxim

Dempsey 1919
03-14-2006, 09:50 PM
no the hell he didnt, he didnt ko joey maxim

neither did moore.

TheGreat1
03-14-2006, 10:08 PM
I'm refering to Micheal Moorer, former undefeated LHW champ

SuzieQ49
03-14-2006, 10:13 PM
thats because maxim had a granite chin. only maxim could take that huge sneaky right hand moore layed on him in the 1st round of there 1952 title fight.




only one guy in history ever knocked out joey maxim....... curtis "the hatchetman" sheppard. sheppard was one of the hardest hitters of that era.


archie moore called sheppard "the hardest hitter i ever faced"


many others did as well

tjmoney
03-17-2006, 06:46 PM
For this question you could have a couple different answers depending on how your looking at the question. I guess theres only 2 realistic ways to look at it however. One way you could go about it is comparing the fights and accomplishments each fighter had at lightheavy. I compared the top 3 vote getters on this list and figure Archie Moore as the most accomplished in the LightHeavy division. He had moore fights and more importantly title fights than both Jones and Charles. I came across something wierd though while looking at Boxrec and it was that none of Ezzard Charles fights were labeled as Title fights in the lightheavy division, if this is true than how can he be considered one of the best lightheavys if he never fought for or won the LH title? Hopefully someone can clear that up for me.

Now the other way to do this comparison is by physical talents. If you put all of these fighters in a tournament all at their Primes in this division I dont see anyone on the list that has the combo of power speed and elusiveness of Roy Jones. Although I haven't seen tape on all of these fighters I have seen most of them and when it comes down to a physical in ring boxing exhibition i think roy could take them all.

marvdave
03-17-2006, 08:08 PM
Charles,Moore and Spinks..in that order

Dempsey 1919
03-17-2006, 08:15 PM
thats because maxim had a granite chin. only maxim could take that huge sneaky right hand moore layed on him in the 1st round of there 1952 title fight.




only one guy in history ever knocked out joey maxim....... curtis "the hatchetman" sheppard. sheppard was one of the hardest hitters of that era.


archie moore called sheppard "the hardest hitter i ever faced"

many others did as well

even harder than rocky marciano?

Stiv Rex
03-17-2006, 08:17 PM
roy jones.

dont forget billy conn, though.

Yaman
03-17-2006, 08:22 PM
you don't know **** about lhw's.

I guess thats why Roy has got the most votes :rolleyes:

Yogi
03-17-2006, 08:29 PM
I guess thats why Roy has got the most votes :rolleyes:

Then again the voting could illustrate that you and six others "don't know **** about lhw's".

Dempsey 1919
03-17-2006, 08:31 PM
Then again the voting could illustrate that you and six others "don't know **** about lhw's".

exactly. archie moore would hand roid his ass with ease.

Yaman
03-17-2006, 08:36 PM
Then again the voting could illustrate that you and six others "don't know **** about lhw's".

Then again, those other six gentlemen might be as brilliant as i am.

Yaman
03-17-2006, 08:46 PM
exactly. archie moore would hand roid his ass with ease.

Oh so now its Archie Moore who would handle Roy's ass? Then tell me, how would he handle his ass?

Dempsey 1919
03-17-2006, 10:06 PM
Oh so now its Archie Moore who would handle Roy's ass? Then tell me, how would he handle his ass?

the old mongoose's cast-iron defense and punching power would stop jr. late.

Burzum_666
03-17-2006, 10:44 PM
Archie Moore, Bob Foster, Ezzard Charles all 3 very tough fighters. I gave the nod to Moore for his longevity, but you could easily pick Charles, since Charles beat him 3 times at Light Heavyweight. Sam Langford, I've never seen any footage of and it's hard to have a real grasp of what fighters from that era were capable of, since all you really know about them is what you read. But I'm sure Langford was a really tough guy in his time and could be expected to give any of these guys a tough go of it.

Yaman
03-18-2006, 07:14 AM
the old mongoose's cast-iron defense and punching power would stop jr. late.


Roy's amazing speed and reflexes mixed with power would dominate and frusterate Moore all night long.

SuzieQ49
03-21-2006, 12:36 AM
Roy's amazing speed and reflexes mixed with power would dominate and frusterate Moore all night long.


moore had incredible reflexes, plus he was smarter stronger bigger puncher better boxer better defense than jones. jones had a vunerable chin as well at 175lb.

jones never fought a fighter 175lb in the class of archie moore

mokele
04-23-2006, 07:25 AM
Few people even mention Michael Moorer as a great light heavy but I saw him fight a few times, and from what I remember he was easily on the level with Michael Spinks. Moorer was a severely trained down man who must have worked very hard to keep his weight below 175 lbs.:

http://boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=001137

I suppose that he can't be listed among the all-time great light heavies because of his short tenure in the division, and because he never ran into any truly great fighters while he was 175 lbs. or less. We will never know just how good he was, but he beat everyone he faced fighting as a light heavy.

Imira
04-28-2006, 12:21 PM
Ezzard Charles.

brownpimp88
02-13-2007, 01:53 AM
Spinks would have knocked langford's little ass out, but oh wait yogi will disagree cuz he;s convinced some guy that weighs 155 pounds would be the champ in modern days.

Piggu
02-13-2007, 01:58 AM
WTF Roy Jones is winning this poll!

lidsy
02-13-2007, 07:43 AM
Gene Tunney. Beat Dempsey. No one else on the list has a heavy weight scalp that big. And they all aspired to it. Only 1 defeat on his record to the great Harry Greb, which he reversed in their second bout. Incredibly smart, both in and out of the ring, Tunney would have been a tough fight for any LHW of any era.

The Raging Bull
02-13-2007, 09:52 AM
Gene Tunney. Beat Dempsey. No one else on the list has a heavy weight scalp that big. And they all aspired to it. Only 1 defeat on his record to the great Harry Greb, which he reversed in their second bout. Incredibly smart, both in and out of the ring, Tunney would have been a tough fight for any LHW of any era.

Michael Spinks beat Larry Holmes twice.

Is that not big?

Oasis_Lad
02-13-2007, 09:57 AM
WTF Roy Jones is winning this poll!

sad, isnt it ? :nonono:

The Raging Bull
02-13-2007, 10:01 AM
By the way, my top 5 is:

1) Charles
2) Moore
3) Spinks
4) Foster
5) I'm not sure about 5. It's Moorer or Jones Jr.

I'm not gonna be stupid and put Langford in just because everyone else does.

I've not really read a lot about his exploits in Light Heavy to be honest; so it would be ignorant for me to put him in there.

Yogi
02-13-2007, 01:07 PM
Spinks would have knocked langford's little ass out, but oh wait yogi will disagree cuz he;s convinced some guy that weighs 155 pounds would be the champ in modern days.

What the ****?

brownpimp88
02-13-2007, 02:22 PM
What the ****?

dude i was joking relax. I respect langford, i truly do. The guy had alot of heart for fighting bigger men, but i'm not sure if he belongs in top 5 at this weight. I can understand if you put him in an all tiem pound for pound ranking. But come on, you know spinks, foster and archie would knocked him out cold.

By the way, the larry holmes that spinks fought was much better than the version of dempsey and louis that the other two guys fought. Spink's win was a close decision, but then again its larry ****in holmes, no one walks over him, unless ur tyson. Hell he gave holyfiled a tough ass fight at the age of 43.

brownpimp88
02-13-2007, 02:27 PM
By the way, my top 5 is:

1) Charles
2) Moore
3) Spinks
4) Foster
5) I'm not sure about 5. It's Moorer or Jones Jr.

I'm not gonna be stupid and put Langford in just because everyone else does.

I've not really read a lot about his exploits in Light Heavy to be honest; so it would be ignorant for me to put him in there.

you actually have ur own opinion, congrats. I'm glad you dont just listen to other people. Michael Spinks was a great fighter, there is a reason leonard and hearns won the belt after he left the division. Marvin Hagler also refused to fight him, he was feard by everyone. Spinks schooled saad muhammad in a sparring session back in 77, thats why saad kept holding off thier unification match.

Hydro
02-13-2007, 02:27 PM
I would add someone like Qawi and take Mason Dixon out of there.

Hydro
02-13-2007, 02:40 PM
Gene Tunney. Beat Dempsey. No one else on the list has a heavy weight scalp that big. And they all aspired to it. Only 1 defeat on his record to the great Harry Greb, which he reversed in their second bout. Incredibly smart, both in and out of the ring, Tunney would have been a tough fight for any LHW of any era.

Larry Holmes > Jack Dempsey

Plus we're talking about light heavyweights anyway, not what they did as heavyweights.

brownpimp88
02-13-2007, 02:42 PM
Larry Holmes > Jack Dempsey

Plus we're talking about light heavyweights anyway, not what they did as heavyweights.

Thank you, spink's 2 wins over holmes are more impressive than roy's entire career.

Dempsey 1919
02-13-2007, 03:05 PM
Thank you, spink's 2 wins over holmes are more impressive than roy's entire career.

Don't you mean 1 win?

brownpimp88
02-13-2007, 03:09 PM
I can argue he won both, larry holmes and michael spinks are two of my favourite legends along with pernell whitaker, so i can make a case for both actually. Either way, spinks would have kept roy's ass at 160.

Seriously, try and get as much footage of spinks at 175 as you can, the guy looks so great in every fight he has. His style would have given everyone problems, espceially slick boxers.

Dempsey 1919
02-13-2007, 03:12 PM
I can argue he won both, larry holmes and michael spinks are two of my favourite legends along with pernell whitaker, so i can make a case for both actually. Either way, spinks would have kept roy's ass at 160.

Seriously, try and get as much footage of spinks at 175 as you can, the guy looks so great in every fight he has. His style would have given everyone problems, espceially slick boxers.

But he would be easy for a mauler, though.

brownpimp88
02-13-2007, 03:16 PM
But he would be easy for a mauler, though.

bob foster doesnt have the skills and chin to beat him, he would beat foster. Remember spinks is a hard hitter, he can ko you with uppercuts, right hands, combos etc.

Dempsey 1919
02-13-2007, 03:18 PM
bob foster doesnt have the skills and chin to beat him, he would beat foster. Remember spinks is a hard hitter, he can ko you with uppercuts, right hands, combos etc.

Bob Foster's not exactly a mauler. He's more like a boxer-puncher.

brownpimp88
02-13-2007, 03:20 PM
Bob Foster's not exactly a mauler. He's more like a boxer-puncher.

Well none of the light heavyweights would have beat tyson, so spinks has nothing to be ashamed of. I mean if harold johnson or jose torres fought liston when they were champ, would they win? no.

SABBATH
02-13-2007, 03:22 PM
What exactly is the criteria for rating a great light-heavyweight? Is it how good a fighter was at 175 or how well he did when he moved up to heavyweight? Different criterias do not always yield the same answers.

brownpimp88
02-13-2007, 03:24 PM
What exactly is the criteria for rating a great light-heavyweight? Is it how good a fighter was at 175 or how well he did when he moved up to heavyweight? Different criterias do not always yield the same answers.

can i see ur list sabbath, to me what you did at 175 and heavyweight matters. Accomplishemnts at 160 and below mean nothing.

SABBATH
02-13-2007, 03:47 PM
can i see ur list sabbath, to me what you did at 175 and heavyweight matters. Accomplishemnts at 160 and below mean nothing.I rate them how they fought at 175.

Some fighters have styles and physical dimensions that are more suited to moving up in weight. Fighters that rely on superior strength and punching power at a given weight often don't carry those attributes with them at the higher weight levels making it harder to have success when they move up . Marvin Hagler is an example of a great middleweight who IMO would not have had great success had he moved up to light-heavyweight much less heavyweight, as opposed to James Toney who was able to make the leap. I would however rate Hagler as a better middleweight than Toney despite this.

I'm not too big on ranking fighters since accomplishments and head to head can differ. In any event, I prefer to have seen and studied a guy before getting too subjective. I'm pretty comfortable with guys like Ezzard Charles, Archie Moore, Sam Langford, Gene Tunney, Bob Foster, Tommy Loughran, Michael Spinks, Billy Conn, and Roy Jones Jr., in no particular order.