View Full Version : Was Julio Cesar Chavez overrated?


Mr. Ryan
01-24-2005, 03:04 PM
Julio Cesar Chavez was a guy who showed up, won titles at 130, 135, and 140 destroying everyone he fought. But the level of competition he fought wasn't all that strong, and he got gift decisions against Whitaker and Randall. When he quit against De La Hoya, everybody was shocked. But my thinking is that maybe he was a product of media and the fans making him into this superhuman fighter who had no fear, when in reality he was just as human as the guys he fought. I feel that he was lucky to get the stoppage against Taylor, and was certainly beatable if the right guy was in front of him. But I think his march to 100 wins thing was a little exxagerated given the level of competition he did it against. I think Azumah Nelson would've beaten him if they had fought. While I think Chavez was great, I think he was overrated by history as being indestructable.

The1God
01-24-2005, 03:36 PM
In his day he was unstoppable. He was relentless and never took a step back. Watch the Camacho fight and that is when Hector was the best (or was)

dansweeney
01-24-2005, 03:49 PM
he had the one quality all great fighters need, a cast iron chin, if you know you can take whatever the other guy has you can come forward and close the distance whenever you want

SweetScience
01-24-2005, 04:52 PM
Chavez was an old school fighter, fought often to showcase his skills, just like Duran did.

Asian Sensation - Don't go by boxrec, you have to live in the moment. Mike Tyson once said during his prime, "everybody at Lightweight should retire...Chavez is too dangerous." That was after Chavez made Rosario's face look like he got jumped. If you don't know by now , Whitaker waited for Chavez to get old. Just like Leonard did to fight Hagler. Whitaker was always asked, when are you going to fight Chavez and he would say when the time is right.


People always talk about the Chavez unbeaten streak. I find it funny if it was that easy how come it had not been done? Regardless who your fighting, you need to come in shape and train hard. Chavez loved to fight I can't say the same about any fighter these days.

.::|ULTIMATE|::.
01-24-2005, 05:26 PM
Chavez aged sooner than most people think and most people only see CHavez's career when he was on his downhill slope.

Chavez prime was

130lbs - 135lbs - The beginning of his 140lb reign. Believe it or not even when he beat Camacho, and Hernandez he was already on a downhill spiral. He wasnt training the same, his legendary conditioning was quickly deteriorating, he didnt even move around in the ring the same.

In his prime though he laid a beating on the who's who of the 130 (martinez, Mayweather)- 135 (rosario) and ended the career of a very special 140lb fighter by the name of Taylor. If thats being overrated, then yeah he is over rated. :rolleyes:

{BrownBomber}
01-24-2005, 07:25 PM
Thats true he got world recognition when he was on the way down.

jenson69
01-24-2005, 09:43 PM
When Dela Hoya beat Chavez, Chavez was still great but past his prime.

wmute
01-25-2005, 09:10 PM
Mike Tyson once said during his prime, "everybody at Lightweight should retire...Chavez is too dangerous."

so what... this sort of stuff was said about tyson, too and other fighters, mosdt of them overrated

If you don't know by now , Whitaker waited for Chavez to get old. Just like Leonard did to fight Hagler. Whitaker was always asked, when are you going to fight Chavez and he would say when the time is right.


more a case of chavez not wanting the fight at 135, but this argument can go on forever...


People always talk about the Chavez unbeaten streak. I find it funny if it was that easy how come it had not been done?

bcos who cares if you are fighting bums... actually padding record has become more and more common lately, differnce with today's fighters is chavez had a LONG and padded record (without the padding he would probably have a great 40 wins streak anyway, so hats off)

Regardless who your fighting, you need to come in shape and train hard. Chavez loved to fight I can't say the same about any fighter these days.

I agree

I think chavez is a great fighter, he is overrated like rocky marciano is overrated (basically no, or just a very very tiny little bit).
Only difference rocky marciano's die hard, pressclippingbelieving fans are not around.
(I am not including you in this list, Sweetscience, your posts are always worth reading)

but pea schooled him and not past his prime, no excuses can be made

asian, good point what would have happened if he fought azuma nelson?

SweetScience
01-25-2005, 11:25 PM
Chavez is a top 50 fighter easily. Overrated? That's funny.

.::|ULTIMATE|::.
01-26-2005, 01:50 AM
but pea schooled him and not past his prime, no excuses can be made



If you cant see that Chavez was not in his prime and out of his prime shape then you clearly dont wanna see the truth. His conditioning and true passion for the sport wasnt there anymore. He was technically sound and thats what got him through the rest of his career post taylor fight. But he wasnt the same person or fighter.

Chavez fought more grueling battles, over longer periods of time, Threw and received more punches, got tagged to body countless more times, even low blowed and on the hip countless times, against heavier hitters and quicker fighters. did you ever see him winded and tired then like u did in that fight against Sweet Pea?

SweetScience
01-26-2005, 02:03 AM
I for one believe Chavez was past his prime.

Chavez was the favorite going into the fight, even though he was fighting at 147. I believe during 87-90 Chavez was in his prime and would've beat Whitaker. Whitaker was dropped and hurt by lesser fighters. Again, IMO I believe Whitaker caught Chavez at the right time.

Did I mention I'm a fan of both men and got pissed when they stoled the fight from Whitaker?

Btw, I was at Boxrec and looked at Duran's Lightweight record. I'm thinking about starting a Duran overrated thread. :rolleyes:

.::|ULTIMATE|::.
01-26-2005, 02:31 AM
I for one believe Chavez was past his prime.

Chavez was the favorite going into the fight, even though he was fighting at 147. I believe during 87-90 Chavez was in his prime and would've beat Whitaker. Whitaker was dropped and hurt by lesser fighters. Again, IMO I believe Whitaker caught Chavez at the right time.

Did I mention I'm a fan of both men and got pissed when they stoled the fight from Whitaker?

Btw, I was at Boxrec and looked at Duran's Lightweight record. I'm thinking about starting a Duran overrated thread. :rolleyes:


that makes two of us bro.

kadyo
01-26-2005, 02:32 AM
If JCC is overrated then all champions are overrated. De la Hoya is overrated, trinidad is overrated, MAB is overrated, EM is overrated, Ali is overrated, Leonard is overrated...etc...bal bla bla... :D

wmute
01-26-2005, 02:44 AM
If you cant see that Chavez was not in his prime and out of his prime shape then you clearly dont wanna see the truth. His conditioning and true passion for the sport wasnt there anymore. He was technically sound and thats what got him through the rest of his career post taylor fight. But he wasnt the same person or fighter.

Chavez fought more grueling battles, over longer periods of time, Threw and received more punches, got tagged to body countless more times, even low blowed and on the hip countless times, against heavier hitters and quicker fighters. did you ever see him winded and tired then like u did in that fight against Sweet Pea?

no never seen him like that but I also never seen him lose every round in a fight, that's very frustrating thing, a very good reason to lose some will, if you see that no matter what you do the other guy has an answer (pit pat, roll step back pit roll pat... pit pat... look <pat> like a damn <pit> eel which you cannot hit <pit> flush <pat>... unnerving)

stix
01-26-2005, 03:40 AM
:D Chavez isn't overrated. He was awesome, man. He was a great fighter who earned his reputation. Sweet Pea was cool as hell, too. They are both definitely two of my alltime favorite boxers. :D

realtim
01-27-2005, 05:56 AM
Chavez was a great fighter a legend if anything he was underrated in boxing at the time. Ppl can argue about the taylor fight oh it shouldnt have been stopped. It was a legit stoppage. We should be praising Chavez for pulling a victory outta the hat like that.
On regards De la hoya chavez was passed his best and de la hoya came in pretty heavy just like he did against Gatti, thats the benifit of weighing in 3 days earlier.
Old school fighter, fought hard and often against great fighters and not so great fighters. Give the guy a break.

Mr. Ryan
01-27-2005, 03:37 PM
If JCC is overrated then all champions are overrated. De la Hoya is overrated, trinidad is overrated, MAB is overrated, EM is overrated, Ali is overrated, Leonard is overrated...etc...bal bla bla... :D
But the guys you mentioned beat better fighters than Chavez.

SweetScience
01-27-2005, 07:08 PM
But the guys you mentioned beat better fighters than Chavez.

My God, Chavez is ranked ahead of them. You know nothing about boxing kid, Hamed fans are a cancer.

*EDIT Didn't see my boy Leonard and Ali, those guys are on a different planet. The rest Chavez is better. I will start my Hamed underrated thread tomorrow. Peace

{BrownBomber}
01-27-2005, 09:31 PM
Chavez is a top 50 fighter easily. Overrated? That's funny.
I think he is top ten easy!!He fought the best and beat the best in an era when fighters actually went to fight.Now we have a lot of pretty boys running around.

We've Got Bush
01-27-2005, 10:06 PM
i think his long unbeaten was great. how many fighters can do that eventhough the fighters might be bums but still give him credit because not many fighters can do that. a lot of current champs have loss to bums and there on p4p list.

Mr. Ryan
01-28-2005, 12:28 PM
My God, Chavez is ranked ahead of them. You know nothing about boxing kid, Hamed fans are a cancer.

*EDIT Didn't see my boy Leonard and Ali, those guys are on a different planet. The rest Chavez is better. I will start my Hamed underrated thread tomorrow. Peace
I never said anything about Hamed being some great champion. I'm just saying his opponents weren't the best, although the same could be said of Larry Holmes and Carlos Monzon. Why is it everytime someone questions a mexican fighter like Chavez or Barrera, mexican people start going crazy? I was just making a thread because I didn't see Chavez in his prime and all of a sudden its like I spit on the Queen?

oldgringo
01-28-2005, 01:19 PM
Chavez is overrated or underrated...depending on who you ask. Whitaker would have beat Chavez regardless of the time...Pea was just a horrible style matchup for him.

No one will ever again come close to matching his record...the way he hung in against Mel Taylor and managed to get the fortunate victory was insanely courageous on his part. I respect JCC very much.

{BrownBomber}
01-28-2005, 02:04 PM
I never said anything about Hamed being some great champion. I'm just saying his opponents weren't the best, although the same could be said of Larry Holmes and Carlos Monzon. Why is it everytime someone questions a mexican fighter like Chavez or Barrera, mexican people start going crazy? I was just making a thread because I didn't see Chavez in his prime and all of a sudden its like I spit on the Queen?
There u go mentioning my country men AGAIN!!!! Im going to keep an eye on u. What u got against Mexico?Its like that thread someone started Why r the MEXICANS afraid of Pac? Back to the real world Im starting a thread also only this is really true.Why are philipinos scared of Mexicans? and that is the truth cause Im Mexican and see it their eyes everytime I see one.Im sure you have never seen a Mexican go crazy if so u would never speak of it again. One more thing I dont think everyone that disagrees with u here r Mexican.A fighter like Chaves was never over rated as a matter of fact he was under rated for a long time.

SweetScience
01-28-2005, 03:38 PM
I never said anything about Hamed being some great champion. I'm just saying his opponents weren't the best, although the same could be said of Larry Holmes and Carlos Monzon. Why is it everytime someone questions a mexican fighter like Chavez or Barrera, mexican people start going crazy? I was just making a thread because I didn't see Chavez in his prime and all of a sudden its like I spit on the Queen?

Why does this have to be a race thing? You obvisouly have something against Mexican fighters. Does it makes sense to talk about a fighter you never seen in his prime? Anyway you didn't see Chavez in his prime, well gets some tapes of his fights and his opponents to see how "good" they were.

Last note, people can call Chavez's unbeaten streak overrated that's fine. But don't call a fighter that stepped into the ring with everybody in his era overrated.

That's seems to be a big problem with fighters these days, I can name a few but this thread will turn into a ***** thread.

.::|ULTIMATE|::.
01-28-2005, 06:06 PM
I never said anything about Hamed being some great champion. I'm just saying his opponents weren't the best, although the same could be said of Larry Holmes and Carlos Monzon. Why is it everytime someone questions a mexican fighter like Chavez or Barrera, mexican people start going crazy? I was just making a thread because I didn't see Chavez in his prime and all of a sudden its like I spit on the Queen?

So you never saw Chavez in his prime yet you make stupid assumptions? You're a smart one.

SonnyJ
01-29-2005, 09:07 AM
he was never overrater, he just stayed in the game too long and that affected his record.

trephination
01-29-2005, 12:39 PM
Chavez was a fighting machine

jayrichardse
01-30-2005, 06:44 PM
very overrated

jayrichardse
01-30-2005, 11:51 PM
he is overrated

jayrichardse
01-30-2005, 11:52 PM
plus i dont like him

Soko
01-31-2005, 12:02 AM
Chavez was great but styles make fights.. He would have NEVER EVER beaten Pete Whitaker. Also Shane Mosley in his prime at 135 would have ripped up Chavez

ghostdancer
02-03-2005, 02:05 PM
hell no way was he overated

IwatchBoxing
02-03-2005, 07:33 PM
Taylor beat Chavez, so much for his undefeated streak.

Sir_Jose
02-03-2005, 10:02 PM
Like OG said he is both overrated and underrated. Some people think he was god and other's...well not so much.

He never would have beaten Whitaker at any weight or anytime. Whitaker was just too good, but thats not a knock considering I think Duran might be the only guy in history who could beat a prime Whitaker

Chavez is all time top 20.

jack_the_rippuh
02-03-2005, 11:11 PM
Pretty Boy Floyd would have beat Chavez at 135, too..

Sir_Jose
02-03-2005, 11:16 PM
Pretty Boy Floyd would have beat Chavez at 135, too..


If Floyd had trouble with Castillo then Chavez would have ran through him.

Floydmayweather
02-04-2005, 06:30 PM
Floyd would give him a good match but chavez was just a freak at 135. Floyds style might give him some trouble. Anywho Chavez is not overated.

morancito
02-28-2005, 07:41 PM
Chavez fought the best of the best during his prime. He never ducked anyone. Sweet Pea ducked him until JC was past his prime, both age and weight.

At lightweight he was unstoppable because he was quicker and stronger. Only a prime Duran would have had the strength and ability to beat him, imo. From 1987 - 1992 there was nobody better in the game, period.

+= El Jefe=+
03-01-2005, 11:59 PM
Julio Cesar Chavez is not over rated
i dare you to say that.
he is one of the greatest fighters in the history
of boxing

hellfire508
03-02-2005, 12:06 AM
In his day he was unstoppable. He was relentless and never took a step back. Watch the Camacho fight and that is when Hector was the best (or was)
agreed. the camacho fight was great :cool:

chase
03-02-2005, 05:21 AM
Julio Cesar Chavez never overrated, great fighter only second to roberto duran in the light wieghts of all time :)

rudy
03-02-2005, 06:01 AM
That is the most stupid post I have ever seen. I did not see him fight until they showed his fight against Edwin Rosario on ITV, now bear in mind I had only seen Rosario blast out Livingstone Bramble. Rosario was a great fighter and when I saw him back him up and batter him for over 10 rounds u knew straight away that u were watching a Legend. One the best fighters for the 80's and early 90s without a doubt every Mexican wants to be like him I am sure

tommo
03-13-2005, 02:16 AM
i agree.as a fighter, his natural skils were over-rated and that is not to say that they were'nt very good.I think his thing was his role model status, his iconic value for a people, a nation and ultimately in time, some might say a weight class, even a generation. His awe was typified by a ritualistic ode before his fights to everything in the mexican identity and tradition, language (albeit spanish), flags etc.Above all of this stood a virtue that probably best represented the people above all, his relentless pressure and work ethic.n all to familiar tale and again a trait which tramscended the humble mexican peoples but rather appealed to most of bboxings blue collar fighters and fans alike.

Famoso Matador
03-13-2005, 04:29 AM
I agree that Chavez is not overrated, and he was a great fighter. Though he didnt deserve some of the decisions he got. I dont think he beat Taylor, yea taylor was knocked down but he got back up. With just a few seconds left in the fight, taylor could have had finished the fight no problem. Worst call ever, and it ruined Taylor.

kapersky
03-13-2005, 04:59 AM
I agree that Chavez is not overrated, and he was a great fighter. Though he didnt deserve some of the decisions he got. I dont think he beat Taylor, yea taylor was knocked down but he got back up. With just a few seconds left in the fight, taylor could have had finished the fight no problem. Worst call ever, and it ruined Taylor.

what happen to taylor after that fight?, many said he was never fully recovered, what did they mean with that?, brain,body damaged?. whatever it was he wasent the same after that match.

and i dont think jcc was overrated, he was very dangerous, just look what he did to taylor.

morancito
03-14-2005, 01:15 PM
what happen to taylor after that fight?, many said he was never fully recovered, what did they mean with that?, brain,body damaged?. whatever it was he wasent the same after that match.

and i dont think jcc was overrated, he was very dangerous, just look what he did to taylor.

Taylor was all ****ed up after that fight. Physically, he peed like 1 liter of blood and had all kinds of bruises in his rib cage. Mentally, how can you recover from a loss like that? The guy was 20 seconds away to beat a living legend in his own right, an all-time great, and came up short.

What happened to Taylor was one of the saddest things that ever happened to a boxer. But the stoppage was the right call.

kapersky
03-14-2005, 02:19 PM
Taylor was all ****ed up after that fight. Physically, he peed like 1 liter of blood and had all kinds of bruises in his rib cage. Mentally, how can you recover from a loss like that? The guy was 20 seconds away to beat a living legend in his own right, an all-time great, and came up short.

What happened to Taylor was one of the saddest things that ever happened to a boxer. But the stoppage was the right call.

why/how can he peed 1 liter of blood, what happen to him after that?. what was the saddest things beside that the ruferer stop the fight 2 second before taylor he would won.

did his brain was damaged or? :confused:, why wouldnt he talk "normal" after that fight?.

the_roo
03-22-2005, 04:31 AM
Chavez is one of the greatest without a doubt.

Anyone who questions his legacy is either:

a) bitter that he beat their fighter

b) jealous of his status as a legend

c) racist

d) stupid and racist (like the guy who said he fought only Tijuana cab drivers)

You can't touch him, don't even try

kapersky
03-22-2005, 05:16 AM
Chavez is one of the greatest without a doubt.

Anyone who questions his legacy is either:

a) bitter that he beat their fighter

b) jealous of his status as a legend

c) racist

d) stupid and racist (like the guy who said he fought only Tijuana cab drivers)

You can't touch him, don't even try

i think oscar de la hoya had the right style for jcc he could beat jcc(prime)

barryboy
03-22-2005, 10:54 AM
That is the most stupid post I have ever seen. I did not see him fight until they showed his fight against Edwin Rosario on ITV, now bear in mind I had only seen Rosario blast out Livingstone Bramble. Rosario was a great fighter and when I saw him back him up and batter him for over 10 rounds u knew straight away that u were watching a Legend. One the best fighters for the 80's and early 90s without a doubt every Mexican wants to be like him I am sure

This is one of my favourite fights of Chavez'. Someone else on this or another thread called this fight 'A clinic in infighting' & that sums it up perfectly, Rosario tried his hardest & didn't want to back off but he just got beat up in the end. Great fighter Chavez, not overrated at all & when you think of it he was probably just past his best when he fought Whitaker, Randall etc. though Whitaker would have given him fits at his best anyway.

erdons
03-25-2005, 02:34 AM
Chavez was not overated, he was one of the best fighters of all time. De La Hoya would not have beaten chavez in his prime.

AntonioMartin
03-25-2005, 02:52 AM
Chavez beat greats like Edwin Rosario, Juan Lapoerte (although I may add that was his first questionable decision), Rocky Lockridge, Edwin Rosario, a faded Rafael Limon, Jose Luis Ramirez, Roger Mayweather (twice), Meldrick Taylor (twice), Lonnie Smith , who, even through he wasnt the best in this list he was still a world champion once, Hector Camacho. A very faded Chavez legitimately beat a very faded Frankie Randall in their third fight.

And let's not forget that pulp of a beating that he gave former world champion Greg Haugen in five rounds as well. 89-0 is something that will be hard to accomplish. I had hopes that our Tito Trinidad could match that but even Tito didnt get halfway to 89-0.

I met Chavez two times in person. He gave me his autograph but was by far the most arrogant boxer Ive met in person. An autograph, no smile, no "como estas?" ("how are you?"). But the facts are the facts and Chavez was an all time great and I will see him in the Hall of Fame less than ten years from now. :hijacked:

Antonio

Roberto_Roldan_
03-14-2006, 03:50 PM
But the guys you mentioned beat better fighters than Chavez.
what d u mean they beat better fighters than chavez ...chavez fought the best there was in his generation

machotime
03-14-2006, 03:55 PM
Julio Cesar Chavez was a guy who showed up, won titles at 130, 135, and 140 destroying everyone he fought. But the level of competition he fought wasn't all that strong, and he got gift decisions against Whitaker and Randall. When he quit against De La Hoya, everybody was shocked. But my thinking is that maybe he was a product of media and the fans making him into this superhuman fighter who had no fear, when in reality he was just as human as the guys he fought. I feel that he was lucky to get the stoppage against Taylor, and was certainly beatable if the right guy was in front of him. But I think his march to 100 wins thing was a little exxagerated given the level of competition he did it against. I think Azumah Nelson would've beaten him if they had fought. While I think Chavez was great, I think he was overrated by history as being indestructable.
Overrated???? NOPE, he was relentless, powerful, tactfull, great chin, determined, tons of heart.

Hell, what else do you want?

Here is Chavez completely outclassing Mayweather senior

http://youtube.com/watch?v=luVxCymtbMM&search=julio%20chavez

Prettyboyp4p
03-14-2006, 05:44 PM
I couldnt say that because anybody who fights 105 fights and wins the majority deserves some respect.He was a beast.

SuzieQ49
03-15-2006, 12:46 AM
Watch the Camacho fight and that is when Hector was the best


actually camacho was not in his prime. camacho was never the same after the edwin rosario fight


then again, chavez was past his prime as well

The Noose
03-15-2006, 02:14 AM
Chavez was class.

Southpaw Great
05-20-2010, 09:08 PM
Bump..........................................

-CANE-
05-20-2010, 09:32 PM
Ryan or can I call you Anal.:luvbed:

I'm surprised you ask such an idiotic question, of course he wasn't. You even say yourself he was great then say you think history overrated him as being indestructable. That just does not make any sense my friend.

Now go and re-write this thread and give us something we can comprehend, your a good writer but stop trying so hard to impress.

In fact the whole thing is complete bollocks, except for the part about gift decisions against Whitaker and Randall.

Listen all good and great fighters are in part a product of the media.

I'm going to finish up here before I shoot you down on the rest of the crap you just wrote.

C'mon you can do much better than this, get Pump to move this to NSB and start again.

Mr. Ryan
05-20-2010, 11:05 PM
Ryan or can I call you Anal.:luvbed:

I'm surprised you ask such an idiotic question, of course he wasn't. You even say yourself he was great then say you think history overrated him as being indestructable. That just does not make any sense my friend.

Now go and re-write this thread and give us something we can comprehend, your a good writer but stop trying so hard to impress.

In fact the whole thing is complete bollocks, except for the part about gift decisions against Whitaker and Randall.

Listen all good and great fighters are in part a product of the media.

I'm going to finish up here before I shoot you down on the rest of the crap you just wrote.

C'mon you can do much better than this, get Pump to move this to NSB and start again.

Five year old thread, wow, I wish everyone had to account for the things they said when they were in high school.

LOL in a way, I do think Chavez was the kind of fighter that made for great fights against the right fighters but wasn't a versatile boxer-puncher like Floyd Mayweather Jr. There was a clear mold for what beat him and it was those with solid boxing skills and good chins.

I think a rematch against Whitaker would have been great for boxing to clear up any misunderstandings but I doubt Chavez's people were hyped for that fight.

I still do think that Azumah Nelson would have beaten him as well.

Realistically though, whatever my thoughts are they are just that, my thoughts. I am entitled to my opinion and no one is going to tell me that mine is worth any less. If this is some attempt to tear me down and build yourself up in the process, best regards.

DWiens421
05-21-2010, 04:15 AM
Five year old thread, wow, I wish everyone had to account for the things they said when they were in high school.

LOL in a way, I do think Chavez was the kind of fighter that made for great fights against the right fighters but wasn't a versatile boxer-puncher like Floyd Mayweather Jr. There was a clear mold for what beat him and it was those with solid boxing skills and good chins.

I think a rematch against Whitaker would have been great for boxing to clear up any misunderstandings but I doubt Chavez's people were hyped for that fight.

I still do think that Azumah Nelson would have beaten him as well.

Realistically though, whatever my thoughts are they are just that, my thoughts. I am entitled to my opinion and no one is going to tell me that mine is worth any less. If this is some attempt to tear me down and build yourself up in the process, best regards.

I totally get what you are saying. I'm wildly embarrassed by things I said here three years ago when I started following the sport.

I will say that Meldrick Taylor was Taylor-made (LOL) to beat Chavez, and Chavez found a way to take him out.

I like you a lot, but you are a bit too defensive though... the first paragraph concedes that you were wrong back then, which is totally respectable. I will always respect those who change their opinion based on what they learn. But the last paragraph is a giant **** off, because someone questioned you. The big knock on you around these boards is that you are too pretentious, and have a wild desire to always be right. It's cool to let go and tell people that you were wrong at one point, learned things about the sport and have gotten a more educated opinion.

Some people think it is bad to be proven wrong... I find it worse to have studied something for 5 years and have learned nothing.

BennyST
05-21-2010, 05:46 AM
Five year old thread, wow, I wish everyone had to account for the things they said when they were in high school.

LOL in a way, I do think Chavez was the kind of fighter that made for great fights against the right fighters but wasn't a versatile boxer-puncher like Floyd Mayweather Jr. There was a clear mold for what beat him and it was those with solid boxing skills and good chins.

I think a rematch against Whitaker would have been great for boxing to clear up any misunderstandings but I doubt Chavez's people were hyped for that fight.

I still do think that Azumah Nelson would have beaten him as well.

Realistically though, whatever my thoughts are they are just that, my thoughts. I am entitled to my opinion and no one is going to tell me that mine is worth any less. If this is some attempt to tear me down and build yourself up in the process, best regards.

They are your thoughts, but if you put them up on the internet, you expect them be responded to (unless you're one of these arrogant fools who put their thoughts up and refuse to hear anything response about them at all as if whatever you say is right and everyone else is wrong) in many ways from other peoples thoughts and opinions and if you cry about it, then why put them up? Keep them to yourself if you don't like the response you get, because if you make a silly thread that is just wrong, then you should either take it on the chin and forget about it.

If you put up a thread, expect it to be responded to and don't expect everyone to agree with you because you may actually be wrong *gasp*.

TheGreatA
05-21-2010, 08:08 AM
Maybe he was but he isn't now. A record like 89-0 will make anyone look better than they are, not that Chavez wasn't great.

Sometimes he gets unjustly classified as a face-first brawler which he was far from. Before anyone says I'm exaggerating, watch ESPN's recent top 20 greatest fighters list. They ranked Chavez #19 yet said he was basically just a tough guy.

-CANE-
05-21-2010, 10:44 AM
Five year old thread, wow, I wish everyone had to account for the things they said when they were in high school.

LOL in a way, I do think Chavez was the kind of fighter that made for great fights against the right fighters but wasn't a versatile boxer-puncher like Floyd Mayweather Jr. There was a clear mold for what beat him and it was those with solid boxing skills and good chins.

I think a rematch against Whitaker would have been great for boxing to clear up any misunderstandings but I doubt Chavez's people were hyped for that fight.

I still do think that Azumah Nelson would have beaten him as well.

Realistically though, whatever my thoughts are they are just that, my thoughts. I am entitled to my opinion and no one is going to tell me that mine is worth any less. If this is some attempt to tear me down and build yourself up in the process, best regards.


Ignore me Ryan I came home in a foul mood last night and got pissed up.

Rikeņa
05-21-2010, 02:03 PM
I wouldn't go as far as to say he was overrated but his son surely is lol..

-Huey-
05-21-2010, 02:19 PM
Chavez was a damn good fighter with an unbelieveable chin, above average power and decent hand speed. He does get overrated just a little bit though. Still I say he is easily top 100 ATG, I rate DLH a little higher than Chavez, I may get ****ted on for this but DLH was overall better than Chavez...no offense , Chavez fans, just an honest opinion.

venom1
05-21-2010, 02:22 PM
No way was this guy overrated if you ask me i think De La Hoya was overrated rather than Chavez

trk
05-21-2010, 05:18 PM
No way was this guy overrated if you ask me i think De La Hoya was overrated rather than Chavez

I think De La Hoya is a little underrated now. He is one of the best of all time (or at least best of the modern era) in terms of quality of opposition faced. He lost a lot of his big fights later on, but at the start of his career he was very impressive.

Is Julio Cesar Chavez overrated? It depends on who is rating him. I have seen some people putting him in the top 10, which I think is overrating him. Bert Sugar has him at #17 with Pernell Whitaker down at #48, which I don't think makes much sense considering almost everyone agrees that Whitaker deserved to win the decision against Chavez. He probably belongs in the top 25 of all time though.

venom1
05-22-2010, 02:13 PM
I think De La Hoya is a little underrated now. He is one of the best of all time (or at least best of the modern era) in terms of quality of opposition faced. He lost a lot of his big fights later on, but at the start of his career he was very impressive.

Is Julio Cesar Chavez overrated? It depends on who is rating him. I have seen some people putting him in the top 10, which I think is overrating him. Bert Sugar has him at #17 with Pernell Whitaker down at #48, which I don't think makes much sense considering almost everyone agrees that Whitaker deserved to win the decision against Chavez. He probably belongs in the top 25 of all time though.

Yeah i agree top 30 atleast, i can shoot off many guys i think rank above him, both sugar rays, ali, tyson, Floyd, Rocky to name a few.

C.Y.
06-01-2010, 04:36 AM
yes i think Chavez is a great fighter, and tough as hell. He would probably give anyone a tough fight, but i do think he is a tad overrated.. some folks speak of him like he is some indestructible superhero or something.. there are some great pure boxers or slick fighters that would beat chavez, not a knock against him, im just saying

TBear
06-01-2010, 04:58 AM
He was great. His determination and steady body attack were amazing. Underrated boxer as well. Perhaps the Whitaker fight takes away from his legacy but before that and even after he had some great wins. I don't think theres any question about the quality of his opposition as superweight, lightweight and light welterweight champion.

BOLLOCKS
06-01-2010, 05:00 AM
Yes...........

bojangles1987
06-01-2010, 09:12 AM
I totally get what you are saying. I'm wildly embarrassed by things I said here three years ago when I started following the sport.

I will say that Meldrick Taylor was Taylor-made (LOL) to beat Chavez, and Chavez found a way to take him out.

I like you a lot, but you are a bit too defensive though... the first paragraph concedes that you were wrong back then, which is totally respectable. I will always respect those who change their opinion based on what they learn. But the last paragraph is a giant **** off, because someone questioned you. The big knock on you around these boards is that you are too pretentious, and have a wild desire to always be right. It's cool to let go and tell people that you were wrong at one point, learned things about the sport and have gotten a more educated opinion.

Some people think it is bad to be proven wrong... I find it worse to have studied something for 5 years and have learned nothing.

Chavez beat Taylor though because Taylor beat himself, at least that's how I feel. Almost as if Taylor was so worried he would get robbed, he fought the completely wrong fight than he had to when the fight was in the bag for him.

There are two things you can not doubt Chavez, his chin and his heart. But I definitely think he's overrated.