Marquez has been strategic about the rematch. He cares very little about the trashing he takes at the hands of sports writer's, Manny lovers or anybody else for not making the rematch happen for less money. He doesn't care. Why? Because Manny must come back to Marquez to create his Legacy.

At this point, we expect that Manny could walk over Barrera and get one version of the Feather championship, if he chooses to take that fight some day. But fight fans and Manny want much more than that. Whoopin' Barrera again just doesn't matter to most people. We want the Marquez rematch.

Marquez will always be waiting for Manny, no matter who Manny goes through to get there. Manny knows this. Manny had his chance at greatness when he had Marquez down three times, but let it slip away. So, when Manny finishes with Morales, and possibly MAB, he'll still not have what he really wants .... a win over Marquez and a true Legacy.

Marquez's performance against Pacman afer Round #1 proved that he's a first-tier Champ, by taking Pac the distance. Now Pacman will have to prove himself against Morales and maybe MAB before he gets a chance to show that Marquez is just holding the belts for him. Marquez will be waiting patiently for Manny and don't kid yourself this time. Marquez won't need to be concerned about the payday anymore. You'll pay, I'll pay, we'll all want to see this one.

Marquez has been strategic about the rematch. He cares very little about the trashing he takes at the hands of sports writer's, Manny lovers or anybody else for not making the rematch happen for less money. He doesn't care. Why? Because Manny must come back to Marquez to create his Legacy.

At this point, we expect that Manny could walk over Barrera and get one version of the Feather championship, if he chooses to take that fight some day. But fight fans and Manny want much more than that. Whoopin' Barrera again just doesn't matter to most people. We want the Marquez rematch.

Marquez will always be waiting for Manny, no matter who Manny goes through to get there. Manny knows this. Manny had his chance at greatness when he had Marquez down three times, but let it slip away. So, when Manny finishes with Morales, and possibly MAB, he'll still not have what he really wants .... a win over Marquez and a true Legacy.

Marquez's performance against Pacman afer Round #1 proved that he's a first-tier Champ, by taking Pac the distance. Now Pacman will have to prove himself against Morales and maybe MAB before he gets a chance to show that Marquez is just holding the belts for him. Marquez will be waiting patiently for Manny and don't kid yourself this time. Marquez won't need to be concerned about the payday anymore. You'll pay, I'll pay, we'll all want to see this one.

Definately want to see a rematch, but wont hold it against JMM if he decides to fight other opponets before jumping back in there with Pac. I dont feel like JMM is obligated to Pac in any way..Pac had the chance, as you pointed out, to take care of him with 3 knockdowns, and I for one dont believe that his socks were so tight that it was impossible for him to do so. I believe that Manny has limited skill and has to rely heavily on his power, which means that he can and will be outboxed (and outpointed) by fighters that are all around better boxers, which JMM clearly is. Hopefully JMM will fight either Barrera or Morales first, and then finish off with Pac.
Regardless, the guy is a champ, and a damn good boxer/counter puncher, and no where in his name does the term "coward" belong, and it's getting very tiresome hearing SOME of Manny's fans call him that over and over. If JMM wants to fight a couple other fights before giving Pac the rematch, then that is his right to do so...period.

Definately want to see a rematch, but wont hold it against JMM if he decides to fight other opponets before jumping back in there with Pac. I dont feel like JMM is obligated to Pac in any way..Pac had the chance, as you pointed out, to take care of him with 3 knockdowns, and I for one dont believe that his socks were so tight that it was impossible for him to do so. I believe that Manny has limited skill and has to rely heavily on his power, which means that he can and will be outboxed (and outpointed) by fighters that are all around better boxers, which JMM clearly is. Hopefully JMM will fight either Barrera or Morales first, and then finish off with Pac.
Regardless, the guy is a champ, and a damn good boxer/counter puncher, and no where in his name does the term "coward" belong, and it's getting very tiresome hearing SOME of Manny's fans call him that over and over. If JMM wants to fight a couple other fights before giving Pac the rematch, then that is his right to do so...period.

I LOVE YOU!

I LOVE YOU!

Ahh, telling me sweet little lies, are ya :D

Marquez has been strategic about the rematch. He cares very little about the trashing he takes at the hands of sports writer's, Manny lovers or anybody else for not making the rematch happen for less money. He doesn't care. Why? Because Manny must come back to Marquez to create his Legacy.

At this point, we expect that Manny could walk over Barrera and get one version of the Feather championship, if he chooses to take that fight some day. But fight fans and Manny want much more than that. Whoopin' Barrera again just doesn't matter to most people. We want the Marquez rematch.

Marquez will always be waiting for Manny, no matter who Manny goes through to get there. Manny knows this. Manny had his chance at greatness when he had Marquez down three times, but let it slip away. So, when Manny finishes with Morales, and possibly MAB, he'll still not have what he really wants .... a win over Marquez and a true Legacy.

Marquez's performance against Pacman afer Round #1 proved that he's a first-tier Champ, by taking Pac the distance. Now Pacman will have to prove himself against Morales and maybe MAB before he gets a chance to show that Marquez is just holding the belts for him. Marquez will be waiting patiently for Manny and don't kid yourself this time. Marquez won't need to be concerned about the payday anymore. You'll pay, I'll pay, we'll all want to see this one.

it's downright laughable to see some jmm nuthugger to interpret his silence after pricing himself out of the rematch as a "career strategy". his case was a case of chickening out (period)! lmfao :D

Definately want to see a rematch, but wont hold it against JMM if he decides to fight other opponets before jumping back in there with Pac. I dont feel like JMM is obligated to Pac in any way..Pac had the chance, as you pointed out, to take care of him with 3 knockdowns, and I for one dont believe that his socks were so tight that it was impossible for him to do so. I believe that Manny has limited skill and has to rely heavily on his power, which means that he can and will be outboxed (and outpointed) by fighters that are all around better boxers, which JMM clearly is. Hopefully JMM will fight either Barrera or Morales first, and then finish off with Pac.
Regardless, the guy is a champ, and a damn good boxer/counter puncher, and no where in his name does the term "coward" belong, and it's getting very tiresome hearing SOME of Manny's fans call him that over and over. If JMM wants to fight a couple other fights before giving Pac the rematch, then that is his right to do so...period.

uhmmm...what about JMM's legacy?The only thing he is famous for is getting up from 3 knockdowns.Pacman is famous for getting all his opponents the knockdowns!And dont tell me about his 2 belts, one he got from an aging Medina and one he got from a scared Gainer.Two fighters that are hardly in anyones P4P list when JMM fought them...As for pacman, he got his first belt fighting Satchai Sasakul,the best boxer who came out from Thailand and he got his second belt at superbantam after defeating Ledwaba, a P4P boxer and considered the best in that weight division.And of course he won his People Belt annihilating the legendary Barrera.I want the JMM rematch to happen,just like all of you, but dont go comparing their legacies coz simply there is none to be made.

Manny had a fracture in his left hand after 1st rd. Nough said. I believe he won it.

it's downright laughable to see some jmm nuthugger to interpret his silence after pricing himself out of the rematch as a "career strategy". his case was a case of chickening out (period)! lmfao :D

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it's downright laughable to see some jmm nuthugger to interpret his silence after pricing himself out of the rematch as a "career strategy". his case was a case of chickening out (period)! lmfao :D


Yeah I hate when fans stoop to shameless spinning.

Definately want to see a rematch, but wont hold it against JMM if he decides to fight other opponets before jumping back in there with Pac. I dont feel like JMM is obligated to Pac in any way..Pac had the chance, as you pointed out, to take care of him with 3 knockdowns, and I for one dont believe that his socks were so tight that it was impossible for him to do so. I believe that Manny has limited skill and has to rely heavily on his power, which means that he can and will be outboxed (and outpointed) by fighters that are all around better boxers, which JMM clearly is. Hopefully JMM will fight either Barrera or Morales first, and then finish off with Pac.
Regardless, the guy is a champ, and a damn good boxer/counter puncher, and no where in his name does the term "coward" belong, and it's getting very tiresome hearing SOME of Manny's fans call him that over and over. If JMM wants to fight a couple other fights before giving Pac the rematch, then that is his right to do so...period.

Fantastic post. That's all i can say

day in day out as many PAC NUTHUGGERS I can see, that include myself, finally I SEE a FEW JMM NUTHUGGERS in action and giving JMM too much credit for pricing himself out of a fight and putting down PAC so far down that Manny must beat EM (first) and MAB (again) then beat JMM to gain his TRUE LEGACY...

he he he, nuthugging is getting better everyday, and we PACFANS dont have the MONOPOLY on this, i always need a good laugh in the morning, LOL ...

That truth here is PAC & JMM has to settle unfinished business it works both ways, PAC outslugged JMM and JMM outboxed PAC, the fight was so close that the three judges saw 3 version of the fight and all the Fans have different version of their own...

PAC & JMM must face each other again to prove who is the best FW on the planet, but have to remind everybody that JMM dont have time on his side, this fight must happen soon and I am hoping that PAC-JMM 2 will be Manny's next fight ...

day in day out as many PAC NUTHUGGERS I can see, that include myself, finally I SEE a FEW JMM NUTHUGGERS in action and giving JMM too much credit for pricing himself out of a fight and putting down PAC so far down that Manny must beat EM (first) and MAB (again) then beat JMM to gain his TRUE LEGACY...

he he he, nuthugging is getting better everyday, and we PACFANS dont have the MONOPOLY on this, i always need a good laugh in the morning, LOL ...

That truth here is PAC & JMM has to settle unfinished business it works both ways, PAC outslugged JMM and JMM outboxed PAC, the fight was so close that the three judges saw 3 version of the fight and all the Fans have different version of their own...

PAC & JMM must face each other again to prove who is the best FW on the planet, but have to remind everybody that JMM dont have time on his side, this fight must happen soon and I am hoping that PAC-JMM 2 will be Manny's next fight ...

You mean after EM, right? I think Nacho is praying hard for Manny to win against EM so his dream of getting $1.5M for his homeboy will come true. This is funny, but what if HBO offered Manny $2.5M. Does this follow that JMM camp will price themselves out of the fight again? I wonder.

You mean after EM, right? I think Nacho is praying hard for Manny to win against EM so his dream of getting $1.5M for his homeboy will come true. This is funny, but what if HBO offered Manny $2.5M. Does this follow that JMM camp will price themselves out of the fight again? I wonder.

yeah buddy after EM, I want to see PAC finish unsettled busines first and foremost, and I don't think JMM will make the same error in overpricing himself or i will be forced to believe that he really don't want to fight PAC again ....

You mean after EM, right? I think Nacho is praying hard for Manny to win against EM so his dream of getting $1.5M for his homeboy will come true. This is funny, but what if HBO offered Manny $2.5M. Does this follow that JMM camp will price themselves out of the fight again? I wonder.
maybe when HBO offers manny $2.5 million will JMM have his $1.5 million. putting aside the one-sidedness of the thread starter, this was a pretty good post...

Marquez has been strategic about the rematch. He cares very little about the trashing he takes at the hands of sports writer's, Manny lovers or anybody else for not making the rematch happen for less money. He doesn't care. Why? Because Manny must come back to Marquez to create his Legacy.

At this point, we expect that Manny could walk over Barrera and get one version of the Feather championship, if he chooses to take that fight some day. But fight fans and Manny want much more than that. Whoopin' Barrera again just doesn't matter to most people. We want the Marquez rematch.

Marquez will always be waiting for Manny, no matter who Manny goes through to get there. Manny knows this. Manny had his chance at greatness when he had Marquez down three times, but let it slip away. So, when Manny finishes with Morales, and possibly MAB, he'll still not have what he really wants .... a win over Marquez and a true Legacy.

Marquez's performance against Pacman afer Round #1 proved that he's a first-tier Champ, by taking Pac the distance. Now Pacman will have to prove himself against Morales and maybe MAB before he gets a chance to show that Marquez is just holding the belts for him. Marquez will be waiting patiently for Manny and don't kid yourself this time. Marquez won't need to be concerned about the payday anymore. You'll pay, I'll pay, we'll all want to see this one.


Pacquiao's legacy is in Marquez hands? :D Can't blame you buddy if that's your point of view. It's either you don't know who the real Pac is or you are simply trying to HYPE UP poor JMM. :D But realistically Pac doesn't need JMM or his belts to move forward in his career and further heighten his stature. In as much as we all wanted to see that rematch I don't think it's going to happen because HBO is not giving JMM the money he is asking simply because it's a dead investment.

Anyway for you and the rest to find out where Manny is standing rightnow read this.

At the age of 26, Manny is a ten-year pro - he made his debut at the age of 16. A former two-time world champion, he won the WBC flyweight world title two weeks before his 20th birthday in December, 1998, and held the title for nearly a year. He held the IBF jr. featherweight world title from June, 2001, until he vacated it on January 15, 2004, to move up to the featherweight division. At the age of 25, he defeated Marco Antonio Barrera for the Feather People’s Championship of the World and was hailed the Feather weight pound for pound King.

An aggressive left handed slugger, Manny is recognized as one of the hardest punchers at any weight. He is undefeated in his last 15 fights - 13-0-2 - with all 13 wins coming by knockout.

"Quite simply, Pacquiao is one of the hottest fighters in the business. There is a saying in American boxing: 'Speed kills.' When that speed is accompanied by power, it is truly a formidable combination - and Pacquiao has it."


If YOU want the whole article check HBO PPV. Now does he really need JMM? :D It's going to be recorded in the modern day history of this sports that JMM ducked Pac TWICE . . . and no amount of hyping can alter that Bro.

You mean after EM, right? I think Nacho is praying hard for Manny to win against EM so his dream of getting $1.5M for his homeboy will come true. This is funny, but what if HBO offered Manny $2.5M. Does this follow that JMM camp will price themselves out of the fight again? I wonder.


Bro I don't think that JMM will over price himself again especially if Manny wins over Eric. He was already dumped by HBO because he is not worth $1.5 M and there's no chance that HBO will chaNGE it's stand in the future. So next time it's still take it or leave.

After Eric win or lose, HBO might fit Pac against MAB or the likes of Casamayor or Penden or even Harrison but definitely not JMM, especially now that Arum is pissed with team JMM.

I believed Manny is a boxer and a Slugger as well, contradicting to what others said..He'd shown it against Barerra and Marques.those who'd seen the fight with Marques convinsingly now that Manny is the winner.even Ali was disappointed with the outcome of the fight!well,I suppose a complete knockdown of marques will convinse you people that manny is surely a daunting fighter..not to be underestimated!!

Pacquiao's legacy is in Marquez hands? :D Can't blame you buddy if that's your point of view. It's either you don't know who the real Pac is or you are simply trying to HYPE UP poor JMM. :D But realistically Pac doesn't need JMM or his belts to move forward in his career and further heighten his stature. In as much as we all wanted to see that rematch I don't think it's going to happen because HBO is not giving JMM the money he is asking simply because it's a dead investment.

Anyway for you and the rest to find out where Manny is standing rightnow read this.

At the age of 26, Manny is a ten-year pro - he made his debut at the age of 16. A former two-time world champion, he won the WBC flyweight world title two weeks before his 20th birthday in December, 1998, and held the title for nearly a year. He held the IBF jr. featherweight world title from June, 2001, until he vacated it on January 15, 2004, to move up to the featherweight division. At the age of 25, he defeated Marco Antonio Barrera for the Feather People’s Championship of the World and was hailed the Feather weight pound for pound King.

An aggressive left handed slugger, Manny is recognized as one of the hardest punchers at any weight. He is undefeated in his last 15 fights - 13-0-2 - with all 13 wins coming by knockout.

"Quite simply, Pacquiao is one of the hottest fighters in the business. There is a saying in American boxing: 'Speed kills.' When that speed is accompanied by power, it is truly a formidable combination - and Pacquiao has it."


If YOU want the whole article check HBO PPV. Now does he really need JMM? :D It's going to be recorded in the modern day history of this sports that JMM ducked Pac TWICE . . . and no amount of hyping can alter that Bro.
what a great post! keep it up dude...

Marquez has been strategic about the rematch. He cares very little about the trashing he takes at the hands of sports writer's, Manny lovers or anybody else for not making the rematch happen for less money. He doesn't care. Why? Because Manny must come back to Marquez to create his Legacy.

At this point, we expect that Manny could walk over Barrera and get one version of the Feather championship, if he chooses to take that fight some day. But fight fans and Manny want much more than that. Whoopin' Barrera again just doesn't matter to most people. We want the Marquez rematch.

Marquez will always be waiting for Manny, no matter who Manny goes through to get there. Manny knows this. Manny had his chance at greatness when he had Marquez down three times, but let it slip away. So, when Manny finishes with Morales, and possibly MAB, he'll still not have what he really wants .... a win over Marquez and a true Legacy.

Marquez's performance against Pacman afer Round #1 proved that he's a first-tier Champ, by taking Pac the distance. Now Pacman will have to prove himself against Morales and maybe MAB before he gets a chance to show that Marquez is just holding the belts for him. Marquez will be waiting patiently for Manny and don't kid yourself this time. Marquez won't need to be concerned about the payday anymore. You'll pay, I'll pay, we'll all want to see this one.

THE MOMENT that Manny was interviewed post-fight his first words we're "I want a rematch". Nothing has changed since then. He always wanted to prove he was better, but JMM wasn't too exited about one. First JMM refused an immediate rematch saying "I think I won the fight, I don't need to give him a rematch" . JMM THEN had to fight Salido. Shortly after JMM wanted more money. JMM's been waiting patiently? LOL He's been avoiding him like he was a broke relative :rolleyes: He makes 3 attempts to avoid the rematch for whatever reasons, and people aren't even questioning his integrity. People are instead hailing this as a smart and calculated career move. PFFFFF.

You wanna be proud of a mexican warrior? Look to Morales. Here's a guy coming off a loss and has undeniable taken of the biggest, toughest fights out there. He wanst to fight the best PERIOD. That's heart. That's ballz. THAT's someone who yearns for boxing immortality. No. If Manny beats Morales soundly this March 19. He would have already carved his place in history, his place that many haters would still deny. No, he does not need to "prove" himself against Barrera, Barrrera needs to REDEEEM himself against Pacquiao. And no. Manny does not need Marquez's rematch, he gets his chance at immortality come March 19. IT IS JMM WHO NEED MANNY AND OTHER VICTORIES AGAINST P4P FIGHTERS to be able to leave a legacy that would be unquestioned. Not the other way around.

uhmmm...what about JMM's legacy?The only thing he is famous for is getting up from 3 knockdowns.Pacman is famous for getting all his opponents the knockdowns!And dont tell me about his 2 belts ... As for pacman, he got his first belt fighting Satchai Sasakul ... after defeating Ledwaba, a P4P boxer and considered the best in that weight division. And of course he won his People Belt annihilating the legendary Barrera ... dont go comparing their legacies coz simply there is none to be made.
Truth is, if the earth stopped spinning today, the belt holders would go down in history as Champs. History would recall that Manny beat Ledwaba (badly I might add) and Sasakul, but would not have attained the Champion status that he wants at Feather. The world hasn't stopped, so Pac will continue to go after the current Feather belt holders, no question. But, even in beating Morales, Pac will still need Marquez. Beating Barrera again means nothing also.

By the way, when a Champ is tested like JMM was with Pac, and gets up after a first round beating to make it a draw, history will recall that he showed Champ heart in a title defense. If you disagree, then I suggest you don't know boxing history (i.e., Archie Moore ring a bell?). Pac fans want us to see that fight another way, their way. But it won't happen. Pac was simply a Contender who now remains a Contender, because he didn't beat JMM.

Let's be fair. Your'e right that Pac has some impressive wins to his credit. Likewise, JMMarquez has beat former world champions and top contenders as well. That is not a stretch, that's a fact. Marquez was also avoided for years by some fighters, including The Prince, who petitioned the WBO to allow him three voluntary fights instead of JMM !

Truth is, now Manny needs Marquez's belts my friend, and he'll have to go get them. Pac is not Marquez's mandatory, right? So, Manny will simply go through Morales and possibly Barrera again to get that mandatory status. Big deal. Many fighters have had to fight their way up to the belts, and built their legacy doing it?

The great irony here is that JMM has long been in the shadow of both Morales and Barrera. Strangely, Manny has helped unveil JMM by first taking out Barrera. Now Manny will probably beat Morales (my prediction) and make his way to Marquez again. Then it's truly Legacy time. Until Pac beats Marquez, his legacy will not be cemented in history.

Morales is on Pac's path to Marquez. It's a fact, not debatable. Simply put, after March 19 Marquez will be the one Feather belt holder Pac hasn't beaten. But, Pac will be without titles, that's all. He'll then need Marquez to make that happen, that's all.

You don't need to defend Morales based on what I've said. I take nothing away from that warrior in my talk about Championship legacy.

Fantastic post. That's all i can say

Thank you! :)

day in day out as many PAC NUTHUGGERS I can see, that include myself, finally I SEE a FEW JMM NUTHUGGERS in action and giving JMM too much credit for pricing himself out of a fight and putting down PAC so far down that Manny must beat EM (first) and MAB (again) then beat JMM to gain his TRUE LEGACY...

he he he, nuthugging is getting better everyday, and we PACFANS dont have the MONOPOLY on this, i always need a good laugh in the morning, LOL ...

That truth here is PAC & JMM has to settle unfinished business it works both ways, PAC outslugged JMM and JMM outboxed PAC, the fight was so close that the three judges saw 3 version of the fight and all the Fans have different version of their own...

PAC & JMM must face each other again to prove who is the best FW on the planet, but have to remind everybody that JMM dont have time on his side, this fight must happen soon and I am hoping that PAC-JMM 2 will be Manny's next fight ...

Tell me, have I EVER, even one time called anyone a 'nuthugger'? I dont just mean pac fans..I mean in general...I havent. I dont know about you guys, but I dont actually "hug" anyones nuts! :confused:

Munn, JMM has nothing on his record to be truly remebered. He is a great counterpuncher and people might recall that he was the "avoided" one, an outstanding fighter with a great heart and a consistant champion but he would never be spoken as one of boxing's great. HE has to chase the great ones to leave a mark. HE has to step up at one point or another. He had a chance to beat Pacquiao and finally be truly recognize as the game's best but he also failed to accomplish that. Pacquiao does not need Marquez any more than Marquez needs Pacquiao end of story. He'll have to learn to make sacrifices and finally realize that you cannot put a price in earning a spot among the finest and greatest warriors of the sport. Pride is a tough thing to swallow but you have to do what you have to do and when oppurtunities are there for the taking, you grab it and never let go. He failed to do that and he is only to blame.

Ahh, telling me sweet little lies, are ya :D

What EVER do u mean tracy? lol

Morales is on Pac's path to Marquez. It's a fact, not debatable. Simply put, after March 19 Marquez will be the one Feather belt holder Pac hasn't beaten. But, Pac will be without titles, that's all. He'll then need Marquez to make that happen, that's all.

You don't need to defend Morales based on what I've said. I take nothing away from that warrior in my talk about Championship legacy.


The way you sound you are giving so much weight on the alphabet boxing bodie's titles. Those title simply means paying for sanctioning fees, nothing more :D

No dude Marquez was on Pac's path to Morales . . . not until this late development . . . now there's no needs for Pac to fight JMM who is trying to move mountains to escape the humilation of getting flattened by Pac again. After EM, PAC doesn't need to fight JMM anymore, he doesn't need the belts and title because he has his own . . . the ring's title.

Real stature goes with real money . . . that is where Pac is rightnow, ON TOP, the pound for pound best Feather Weight, a Marquee fighter. And if Manny wanted to get one of those ABC boxibg bodies' belt it doesn't have to be that of JMMs . . . he can fight CHI or Harrison. Sorry for JMM but he blew his chance. Any other fighter could have grab that opportunity to fight for the No 1 pound for pound title even for free.

Championship LEGACY? Yeah say that to JMM who chose to fight Salido instead of a p4p fighter in Manny. :D

Munn, HE has to chase the great ones to leave a mark. HE has to step up at one point or another. He had a chance to beat Pacquiao and finally be truly recognized as the game's best but he also failed to accomplish that. He failed to do that and he is only to blame.
MOOKS ... My original post was not a comparison of Marquez's legacy versus Pac's legacy. That discussion is simply a distraction from what I first said. To summarize .... without defeating the reigning Marquez, Manny's legacy is a question mark, but, by beating Marquez, it's a done deal.

But, please also keep one thing in mind as you question Marquez. He's already "chased" Pacman and retained the belts.

According to you, it seems that JMM should be again chasing the "great" Pacman? Was Pac "great" before he fought JMM? If so, then give JMM credit for chasing the "greats". Or maybe Pac is one of the "greats" based on his draw with JMM? If that's the case, then JMM must be truly held in high regard.

MOOKS, all kinding aside, chasing the greats doesn't make your Legacy for you. But, beating the so-called "greats" will do it. Then add retaining your titles. There's no question Pac is making a Legacy for himself by handling first Barrera, and now quite likely handling Morales. But, even if Pac walks through Morales, the fight everybody wants, so that Pac can assume his rightful place, is Marquez. Manny will only have built the Legacy he wants when he beats all the top guys, this means Marquez.

Marquez and Pac will meet again. We agree, both their legacies will possibly be scribed by the result. My point stands, Manny needs Marquez. Marquez remains Champ after having faced Pac, while Pac gets to claim he "drew" the Champ. Who needs who more?

The way you sound you are giving so much weight on the alphabet boxing bodie's titles. Those title simply means paying for sanctioning fees, nothing more :D

Championship LEGACY? Yeah say that to JMM who chose to fight Salido instead of a p4p fighter in Manny. :D
Seems your beef is actually with Pac then, not me. He's said that he's proud of Ring's title, but will not be satisfied until he holds the WBA and IBF Championships. Seems you hold the "People's Champ" staus in higher regard than Pac himself.

Regarding Salido, he was a mandatory, that's all. Something that Pac will need to consider, when he finally gets a Feather belt.

MOOKS ... My original post was not a comparison of Marquez's legacy versus Pac's legacy. That discussion is simply a distraction from what I first said. To summarize .... without defeating the reigning Marquez, Manny's legacy is a question mark, but, by beating Marquez, it's a done deal.

But, please also keep one thing in mind as you question Marquez. He's already "chased" Pacman and retained the belts.

According to you, it seems that JMM should be again chasing the "great" Pacman? Was Pac "great" before he fought JMM? If so, then give JMM credit for chasing the "greats". Or maybe Pac is one of the "greats" based on his draw with JMM? If that's the case, then JMM must be truly held in high regard.

MOOKS, all kinding aside, chasing the greats doesn't make your Legacy for you. But, beating the so-called "greats" will do it. Then add retaining your titles. There's no question Pac is making a Legacy for himself by handling first Barrera, and now quite likely handling Morales. But, even if Pac walks through Morales, the fight everybody wants, so that Pac can assume his rightful place, is Marquez. Manny will only have built the Legacy he wants when he beats all the top guys, this means Marquez.

Marquez and Pac will meet again. We agree, both their legacies will possibly be scribed by the result. My point stands, Manny needs Marquez. Marquez remains Champ after having faced Pac, while Pac gets to claim he "drew" the Champ. Who needs who more?

Pac was the one chasing JMM but JMM priced himself out of the rematch and even up to now can't find a "worthy" opponent his team knows he can beat.

Now assuming Pac beats Erik, he can forget about JMM and go after MAB for the superfeather champ. If he beats MAB again (which I think he will) then he can chase better oppositions at 130 andl et Marquez march closer to retirement fighting nobodies.

Pac gets to claim JMM was lucky the judges robbed him of his championships -- and then chickened out in the rematch. :D

Even though JMM proved to be the superior boxer after the first round, he didn't win the fight. He proved that he has the style to be Pacman, be there are questions that still linger. The fact that he priced himself out of a rematch raises even more questions. Can Pac beat JMM? I don't know, but after the first round of their first fight it didn't look like he could. These guys need to fight each other to answer all the questions

Even though JMM proved to be the superior boxer after the first round, he didn't win the fight ...... Can Pac beat JMM? I don't know, but after the first round of their first fight it didn't look like he could.
Agreed. We need the rematch to answer a whole lot of questions.

But SISTER, remember, nobody won that fight, right? The "great" Pacman couldn't beat the apparently "beaten" Champ. And Marquez couldn't dig himself out of that first round.

I say that Marquez showed everbody after the first round that he can in fact beat Pac in a rematch. The Marquez you saw in Rounds 2 to 12 of the first fight was a Marquez who was recovering from those HUGE left hands in Round #1. In the rematch, both guys will eat some big hands, but Pacman will need to contend with one point rounds. Pac needed a 10-7 round to get a draw for Gods sake, let's not forget that.

Pac gets to claim JMM was lucky the judges robbed him of his championships -- and then chickened out in the rematch.

I don't recall Pac saying he was ever "robbed". In fact, Pac seems to have taken the high-road and consistently given Marquez credit for a good fight, but felt he did enough to win. He's never blamed it on "robbery".

Also, I believe Pac wouldn't find much comfort knowing he can "claim" he was robbed and that JMM's a chicken.

The hell w/ Marquez. Pac's legacy already started when he beat Barrera. AFter he beats Morales, rematches Barrera and then rematches Morales, with a few tune ups thrown in between, he'll acheive legendary status. By then Marquez won't be half the fighter he used to be, cause he'll be fighting nobodies and scrubs. Either Marquez will get KTFO by Pac or he won't even dare to step in the ropes w/ Pac. JMM ruined his career.

The hell w/ Marquez. Pac's legacy already started when he beat Barrera. AFter he beats Morales, rematches Barrera and then rematches Morales, with a few tune ups thrown in between, he'll acheive legendary status. By then Marquez won't be half the fighter he used to be, cause he'll be fighting nobodies and scrubs. Either Marquez will get KTFO by Pac or he won't even dare to step in the ropes w/ Pac. JMM ruined his career.

JMM doesnt even have a legacy to start with... he hasnt fought any of the two mexicans yet (Barrera and Morales)... he fought Salido last time and lasted the whole 12 rounds... Pacquiao could've dismissed Salido in 3 rounds...

Pacman, would be willing and able to fight him, even inside JMM's living room... he doesnt backout and priced himself out of a fight...

The guy who started this thread, placed a wrong title here... it should be the other way around...

The bottomline is, Marquez chicken out... the first Mexican to chicken out against an Asian...
What a SHAME... :eek:

It is my opinion that Pacman doesn't have to beat JMM to cement his legacy if he can beat Morales convincingly. JMM will be best remembered as the guy who got a draw from Pacman, and Pacman will be remembered as the guy who fought with the best in his times.

THE MOMENT that Manny was interviewed post-fight his first words we're "I want a rematch". Nothing has changed since then. He always wanted to prove he was better, but JMM wasn't too exited about one. First JMM refused an immediate rematch saying "I think I won the fight, I don't need to give him a rematch" . JMM THEN had to fight Salido. Shortly after JMM wanted more money. JMM's been waiting patiently? LOL He's been avoiding him like he was a broke relative :rolleyes: He makes 3 attempts to avoid the rematch for whatever reasons, and people aren't even questioning his integrity. People are instead hailing this as a smart and calculated career move. PFFFFF.

You wanna be proud of a mexican warrior? Look to Morales. Here's a guy coming off a loss and has undeniable taken of the biggest, toughest fights out there. He wanst to fight the best PERIOD. That's heart. That's ballz. THAT's someone who yearns for boxing immortality. No. If Manny beats Morales soundly this March 19. He would have already carved his place in history, his place that many haters would still deny. No, he does not need to "prove" himself against Barrera, Barrrera needs to REDEEEM himself against Pacquiao. And no. Manny does not need Marquez's rematch, he gets his chance at immortality come March 19. IT IS JMM WHO NEED MANNY AND OTHER VICTORIES AGAINST P4P FIGHTERS to be able to leave a legacy that would be unquestioned. Not the other way around.
Very well said!

What "LEGACY" is in JMM's hands? That's too dramatic. Pacman wants to fight anybody that matter to all boxing fans. It's as simple as that. MP promised to fight the 3Ms (Marco, Marquez and Morales). After March 19, MP has delivered on his promise. If the others want him, just BRING THEM ON.

Agreed. We need the rematch to answer a whole lot of questions.

But SISTER, remember, nobody won that fight, right? The "great" Pacman couldn't beat the apparently "beaten" Champ. And Marquez couldn't dig himself out of that first round.

I say that Marquez showed everbody after the first round that he can in fact beat Pac in a rematch. The Marquez you saw in Rounds 2 to 12 of the first fight was a Marquez who was recovering from those HUGE left hands in Round #1. In the rematch, both guys will eat some big hands, but Pacman will need to contend with one point rounds. Pac needed a 10-7 round to get a draw for Gods sake, let's not forget that.

I though JMM should have gotten the nod in the first fight. I just think he shouldn't have priced himself out of this fight. these guys have unfinished business, and he stands to put himself in the spotlight with this fight.

it's way too early to tell if manny's whole legacy will depend on a jmm rematch. it is still early in his career.

It is my opinion that Pacman doesn't have to beat JMM to cement his legacy if he can beat Morales convincingly. JMM will be best remembered as the guy who got a draw from Pacman, and Pacman will be remembered as the guy who fought with the best in his times.
Let's assume that Pac beats Morales convincingly, because that's actually quite likely. Add that to Pac's complete domination of Barrera. So, there's Pac dominating two of the three top Feathers.

But Pac also got a very strange draw against Marquez, the other top Feather. Pac had him down three times in a round, but still couldn't take him out. In fact, Marquez adjusted and got that draw. If Pac was/is everything that you Pac lovers say, he'd have beat Marquez.

When Pac finishes off Morales, it's just him and JMM to sort-out who's truly Number 1 at Feather.

The hell w/ Marquez. Pac's legacy already started when he beat Barrera. AFter he beats Morales, rematches Barrera and then rematches Morales, with a few tune ups thrown in between, he'll acheive legendary status. By then Marquez won't be half the fighter he used to be, cause he'll be fighting nobodies and scrubs. Either Marquez will get KTFO by Pac or he won't even dare to step in the ropes w/ Pac. JMM ruined his career.
I went into Pac-JMM's fight wanting to see Pac take JMM's head cleanly off. I saw that happening in the first round and was screaming at the screen for Pac to kill em'. It was an awesome showing against a truly skilled boxer. Pac didn't kill em'. Truth is Pac didn't show Championship stuff after the first round. He let a "beat" man get back into that fight. When you have a 10-7 round, and your supoosed to the the Next Great Thing, you don't draw that fight.

By the way, you mention Pac beating Morales, Barrera and then maybe Morales again. Then you mention "tune-ups". Who does he fight in the tune-ups? Are you a Pac fan who's actually suggesting that Pac needs to get prepared for JMM? Say it isn't so! I thought Pac fans figured Pac could walk off the street and beat JMM, right? Or, have you got atleast a little respect for the one man that at Feather who has truly given Pac something to think about?

I went into Pac-JMM's fight wanting to see Pac take JMM's head cleanly off. I saw that happening in the first round and was screaming at the screen for Pac to kill em'. It was an awesome showing against a truly skilled boxer. Pac didn't kill em'. Truth is Pac didn't show Championship stuff after the first round. He let a "beat" man get back into that fight. When you have a 10-7 round, and your supoosed to the the Next Great Thing, you don't draw that fight.

By the way, you mention Pac beating Morales, Barrera and then maybe Morales again. Then you mention "tune-ups". Who does he fight in the tune-ups? Are you a Pac fan who's actually suggesting that Pac needs to get prepared for JMM? Say it isn't so! I thought Pac fans figured Pac could walk off the street and beat JMM, right? Or, have you got atleast a little respect for the one man that at Feather who has truly given Pac something to think about?
good point dude... i just like to point out, JMM was beat up in round 1 but pac also sustained injuries in that round so we really can't say what he could have done without those... equal respect for both fighters though... and i still say JMM is the toughest for manny among the three m's...

Let's assume that Pac beats Morales convincingly, because that's actually quite likely. Add that to Pac's complete domination of Barrera. So, there's Pac dominating two of the three top Feathers.

But Pac also got a very strange draw against Marquez, the other top Feather. Pac had him down three times in a round, but still couldn't take him out. In fact, Marquez adjusted and got that draw. If Pac was/is everything that you Pac lovers say, he'd have beat Marquez.

When Pac finishes off Morales, it's just him and JMM to sort-out who's truly Number 1 at Feather.


Yup thats the way it should be... after Morales, go straight to Marquez... if JMM, will price himself out again... that will only prove that he is afraid of the Pacman... and JMM, should just settle for patsy opponents... getting paid with crumbs and no Pay-per-view...
And Marquez will no longer have a right to ask for a bigger purse after Pac finishes off Morales...
Looking forward, Pacman no longer needs Marquez after he beats Morales...

Pacquiao-Morales, this will be one hell of a fight...

JMM doesnt even have a legacy to start with... he hasnt fought any of the two mexicans yet (Barrera and Morales)... he fought Salido last time and lasted the whole 12 rounds... Pacquiao could've dismissed Salido in 3 rounds...Pacman, would be willing and able to fight him, even inside JMM's living room... he doesnt backout and priced himself out of a fight...The guy who started this thread, placed a wrong title here... it should be the other way around...
Let's just assume you're right about JMM chickening out, that way we can move-on and actually discuss some facts.

First, you're right that Pac KO's Salido within 3. Pac is a KO guy and very fast and has good power in both hands. That's his style. It's not always pretty, because it looks very much the same each fight, with the same predictable head/hand/foot movements, but that's pac's effective style.

Marquez also beat Salido using his style. It's not the dramatic KO style that Pac brings, but it got him the win. Marquez is an expert counter puncher who takes the lead well also. He has ring skills that include great reflexes and overall well-rounded ability. He's just not the big KO guy that Pac is proving to be.

Pac brought everything he had against Marquez and it wasn't enough. He had JMM beatup and bloodied and down three times but couldn't finish him off. On the other hand, Pac badly beat Barrera and will probably beatup Morales. That just leaves one unsettled score, namely Marquez.

Pac might get one belt form Barrera in a rematch, but he really has nothing to prove against Marco. So, he needs to prove that he has that Championship stuff by facing the only guy at Feather who showed that Pac's speed/power doesn't always cut it.

Let's just assume you're right about JMM chickening out, that way we can move-on and actually discuss some facts.

First, you're right that Pac KO's Salido within 3. Pac is a KO guy and very fast and has good power in both hands. That's his style. It's not always pretty, because it looks very much the same each fight, with the same predictable head/hand/foot movements, but that's pac's effective style.

Marquez also beat Salido using his style. It's not the dramatic KO style that Pac brings, but it got him the win. Marquez is an expert counter puncher who takes the lead well also. He has ring skills that include great reflexes and overall well-rounded ability. He's just not the big KO guy that Pac is proving to be.

Pac brought everything he had against Marquez and it wasn't enough. He had JMM beatup and bloodied and down three times but couldn't finish him off. On the other hand, Pac badly beat Barrera and will probably beatup Morales. That just leaves one unsettled score, namely Marquez.

Pac might get one belt form Barrera in a rematch, but he really has nothing to prove against Marco. So, he needs to prove that he has that Championship stuff by facing the only guy at Feather who showed that Pac's speed/power doesn't always cut it.
JMM has the last say whether or not he will face manny. promoters and managers have no power when he wants to overprice himself... if MP-JMM 2 goes under another deal, then so be it... both of them have to prove who is the better fighter...

Then you mention "tune-ups". Who does he fight in the tune-ups? Are you a Pac fan who's actually suggesting that Pac needs to get prepared for JMM?

Pac don't need tune ups. Those tune-up fights are really more like stay busy fights like the 3k fight.

We know that Pac spooked the **** out of JMM cause he couldn't take care of business w/ a guy that had no business being in the ring w/ him (Salido). You'll never see JMM try to lead again EVER (even against scrubs like Salido)!!!

When Pac fights scrubs they get KOed. When PBF fights scrubs they get KOed. When Barrera fights scrubs they get KOed. When Morales fights scrubs, they get KOed. When JMM fight scrubs they don't even get bruised. Salido walked out of the ring looking the same as when he walked into it.

We know that Pac spooked the **** out of JMM cause he couldn't take care of business w/ a guy that had no business being in the ring w/ him (Salido). When Pac fights scrubs they get KOed. When PBF fights scrubs they get KOed. When Barrera fights scrubs they get KOed. When Morales fights scrubs, they get KOed. When JMM fight scrubs they don't even get bruised. Salido walked out of the ring looking the same as when he walked into it.
I like decisive wins. KO's do that for me very nicely. I also like boxing skill and endurance, you know, the stuff that Champions are made of. You know, the stuff that Pac ran-into against Marquez.

Pac is a KO king, whereas Marquez is a very skilled boxer with less KO status. But Pac did not KO Marquez, and Marquez did out-box Pac, that's simple to understand. Those two styles met in the ring and it was settled in the ring.

Fights are not won/lost based on the condition of a guy's face at the end of the 12th round, it's the cards. Pac brought his power/speed style to Marquez very early, but blew his load and Marquez's boxing style was more effective over the next eleven rounds. By the way, ever check Gatti's face after winning by decision?

Again, if you beleive that Pac spooked Marquez because of what you saw against Salido, you don't really know Marquez. That was typical Marquez in there, kinda' like Hopkins in some ways, just taking care of business and getting a win. No KO, but a win no less. That's boxing smart and Marquez always fights slightly above his opponents level, enough to get a win and preserve his brains for when he really needs to go to war, like with Pac in the rematch.

I like decisive wins. KO's do that for me very nicely. I also like boxing skill and endurance, you know, the stuff that Champions are made of. You know, the stuff that Pac ran-into against Marquez.

Pac is a KO king, whereas Marquez is a very skilled boxer with less KO status. But Pac did not KO Marquez, and Marquez did out-box Pac, that's simple to understand. Those two styles met in the ring and it was settled in the ring.

Fights are not won/lost based on the condition of a guy's face at the end of the 12th round, it's the cards. Pac brought his power/speed style to Marquez very early, but blew his load and Marquez's boxing style was more effective over the next eleven rounds. By the way, ever check Gatti's face after winning by decision?

Again, if you beleive that Pac spooked Marquez because of what you saw against Salido, you don't really know Marquez. That was typical Marquez in there, kinda' like Hopkins in some ways, just taking care of business and getting a win. No KO, but a win no less. That's boxing smart and Marquez always fights slightly above his opponents level, enough to get a win and preserve his brains for when he really needs to go to war, like with Pac in the rematch.


Yeah... he's smart alright... knows how to chicken out...

Truth is, if the earth stopped spinning today, the belt holders would go down in history as Champs. History would recall that Manny beat Ledwaba (badly I might add) and Sasakul, but would not have attained the Champion status that he wants at Feather. The world hasn't stopped, so Pac will continue to go after the current Feather belt holders, no question. But, even in beating Morales, Pac will still need Marquez. Beating Barrera again means nothing also.

By the way, when a Champ is tested like JMM was with Pac, and gets up after a first round beating to make it a draw, history will recall that he showed Champ heart in a title defense. If you disagree, then I suggest you don't know boxing history (i.e., Archie Moore ring a bell?). Pac fans want us to see that fight another way, their way. But it won't happen. Pac was simply a Contender who now remains a Contender, because he didn't beat JMM.

Let's be fair. Your'e right that Pac has some impressive wins to his credit. Likewise, JMMarquez has beat former world champions and top contenders as well. That is not a stretch, that's a fact. Marquez was also avoided for years by some fighters, including The Prince, who petitioned the WBO to allow him three voluntary fights instead of JMM !

Truth is, now Manny needs Marquez's belts my friend, and he'll have to go get them. Pac is not Marquez's mandatory, right? So, Manny will simply go through Morales and possibly Barrera again to get that mandatory status. Big deal. Many fighters have had to fight their way up to the belts, and built their legacy doing it?

The great irony here is that JMM has long been in the shadow of both Morales and Barrera. Strangely, Manny has helped unveil JMM by first taking out Barrera. Now Manny will probably beat Morales (my prediction) and make his way to Marquez again. Then it's truly Legacy time. Until Pac beats Marquez, his legacy will not be cemented in history.

i got your points on the belts, and if the world will stop now PAC will be only be a two time world champion, but you got to remember MAB also has a belt when and if PAC's next fight will be against MAB it will be for a SFW Belt and his legacy cemented as a three time world boxing champ ...

i don't agree with you that PAC's legacy depend on JMM but I do agree that PAC & JMM has to settle unfinished business and I really hope it will be soon, JMM don't have time on his side, IMHO the longer this fight happens the lesser chances JMM will win, so i hope we will see PAC-JMM 2 this year or at the latest by 2006, where we can safely say both guys are still at their peak ...

i got your points on the belts, and if the world will stop now PAC will be only be a two time world champion, but you got to remember MAB also has a belt when and if PAC's next fight will be against MAB it will be for a SFW Belt and his legacy cemented as a three time world boxing champ ...

i don't agree with you that PAC's legacy depend on JMM but I do agree that PAC & JMM has to settle unfinished business and I really hope it will be soon, JMM don't have time on his side, IMHO the longer this fight happens the lesser chances JMM will win, so i hope we will see PAC-JMM 2 this year or at the latest by 2006, where we can safely say both guys are still at their peak ...
If JMM-PAC 2 happens in 2006 and if PAC wins some JMM fans will say that he was defeated because of ageing and PAC is still on his prime.

lolz another excuses from jmm fans :D

The rematch will happen if JMM grows a set of balls and stops outpricing himself!! :D

Tell me, have I EVER, even one time called anyone a 'nuthugger'? I dont just mean pac fans..I mean in general...I havent. I dont know about you guys, but I dont actually "hug" anyones nuts! :confused:

my answer is, you never did ...

but around the forums PAC FANS are being labeled as nuthuggers and i am definetly a PAC FAN so if being as such i be called a pacnuthugger so be it, thats how an avid fan i am, i really dont care if i am labeled as a nuthugger, the only thing that bothers me when PAC NUTHUGGERS as a whole are considered "clueless" in boxing ...

i don't deny JMM's greatness for me he is PAC's greatest challenge, even greater challenge than EM ...

but putting one's legacy on one figther like what MUNN did, is too much, for me this constitute nuthugging (this is debatable)...

but i do see MUNN points i just don't agree with him and IMHO it is a must for both PAC & JMM to settle unfinished business ...

The rematch will happen if JMM grows a set of balls and stops outpricing himself!! :D
lolz... he knew that this is the right time to retire :p

Even though JMM proved to be the superior boxer after the first round, he didn't win the fight. He proved that he has the style to be Pacman, be there are questions that still linger. The fact that he priced himself out of a rematch raises even more questions. Can Pac beat JMM? I don't know, but after the first round of their first fight it didn't look like he could. These guys need to fight each other to answer all the questions

right on sister that is the unfinished business that both PAC & JMM has to settle, I am hoping it will be soon ...

right on sister that is the unfinished business that both PAC & JMM has to settle, I am hoping it will be soon ...
you're right here bro.. but i think jmm will not seriously to finished his unfinished business.

Even though JMM proved to be the superior boxer after the first round, he didn't win the fight. He proved that he has the style to be Pacman, be there are questions that still linger. The fact that he priced himself out of a rematch raises even more questions. Can Pac beat JMM? I don't know, but after the first round of their first fight it didn't look like he could. These guys need to fight each other to answer all the questions


Exactly Bro JMM showed that he has the style to beat Pac . . . I guess nobody can dispute that . . . reason why the boxing world is routing for that rematch unfortunately team JMM doesn't want that to HAPPEN.

i got your points on the belts, and if the world will stop now PAC will be only be a two time world champion, but you got to remember MAB also has a belt when and if PAC's next fight will be against MAB it will be for a SFW Belt and his legacy cemented as a three time world boxing champ ...

i don't agree with you that PAC's legacy depend on JMM but I do agree that PAC & JMM has to settle unfinished business and I really hope it will be soon, JMM don't have time on his side, IMHO the longer this fight happens the lesser chances JMM will win, so i hope we will see PAC-JMM 2 this year or at the latest by 2006, where we can safely say both guys are still at their peak ...
Jomo .... Good response my friend. In case you haven't noticed yet, I'm not a JMM lover, he's just a damned good, smart boxer. I like Pac a hell of a lot too for what he brings.

Right now, across all devisions, the only "unfinished business" that rivals Pac-JMM is Vitali-Lewis. The Heavy rematch won't happen, so that leaves us with something that boxing fans should enjoy even more, the Feather scene.

Pac will very likely beat MAB again in that clash of styles. Morales could actually be tougher, but likely another win. Pacman at Feather has only one question mark on the record book and he's not liking that very much. He wants Marquez.

Thanks for not stooping to the "chicken" argument. Pac would never use those words, because he is above it. Any fan of boxing, actual boxing not the boxers, loed what they saw in Marquez getting up after those three visious KD's. A so-called chicken would have laid-down and stayed down.

I like decisive wins. KO's do that for me very nicely. I also like boxing skill and endurance, you know, the stuff that Champions are made of. You know, the stuff that Pac ran-into against Marquez.

Pac is a KO king, whereas Marquez is a very skilled boxer with less KO status. But Pac did not KO Marquez, and Marquez did out-box Pac, that's simple to understand. Those two styles met in the ring and it was settled in the ring.

Fights are not won/lost based on the condition of a guy's face at the end of the 12th round, it's the cards. Pac brought his power/speed style to Marquez very early, but blew his load and Marquez's boxing style was more effective over the next eleven rounds. By the way, ever check Gatti's face after winning by decision?

Again, if you beleive that Pac spooked Marquez because of what you saw against Salido, you don't really know Marquez. That was typical Marquez in there, kinda' like Hopkins in some ways, just taking care of business and getting a win. No KO, but a win no less. That's boxing smart and Marquez always fights slightly above his opponents level, enough to get a win and preserve his brains for when he really needs to go to war, like with Pac in the rematch.

Marquez's KO percentage is almost as good as Pac. **** alot of Peeps say he's as good a puncher as ERIK MORALES!!! If Marquez really was boxing smart, he'd realize that Salido had no business being in the ring w/ him and turned up the pace of the fight and beat the crap of Salido. Instead he cruised to an unsatifying and boring victory. I was ashamed because I told some casual boxing fans that JMM was a p4p top 10 fighter; as they watched JMM "go to work" they either doozed off to sleep or talked about other sports. Sure style is style, but if you're in a different class than your opponent, you should blow him out of the water.

MOOKS ... My original post was not a comparison of Marquez's legacy versus Pac's legacy. That discussion is simply a distraction from what I first said. To summarize .... without defeating the reigning Marquez, Manny's legacy is a question mark, but, by beating Marquez, it's a done deal.

But, please also keep one thing in mind as you question Marquez. He's already "chased" Pacman and retained the belts.

According to you, it seems that JMM should be again chasing the "great" Pacman? Was Pac "great" before he fought JMM? If so, then give JMM credit for chasing the "greats". Or maybe Pac is one of the "greats" based on his draw with JMM? If that's the case, then JMM must be truly held in high regard.

MOOKS, all kinding aside, chasing the greats doesn't make your Legacy for you. But, beating the so-called "greats" will do it. Then add retaining your titles. There's no question Pac is making a Legacy for himself by handling first Barrera, and now quite likely handling Morales. But, even if Pac walks through Morales, the fight everybody wants, so that Pac can assume his rightful place, is Marquez. Manny will only have built the Legacy he wants when he beats all the top guys, this means Marquez.

Marquez and Pac will meet again. We agree, both their legacies will possibly be scribed by the result. My point stands, Manny needs Marquez. Marquez remains Champ after having faced Pac, while Pac gets to claim he "drew" the Champ. Who needs who more?

Munn

At least in my eyes Marquez is mereley a second gatekeeper to Manny's journey to greatness. His win against Barrera steered him in teh right direction and his draw with Marquez should have proven that although not yet great, he's legit. The boxing' world's regard on Maqruez cannot even be compared to how the public regards EM and MAB. Should March 19 prove to be successfull for Pac, Pac would already have MAB and Morales' head on his legacy. If Pac gets a win with ALL 3 Mexicans, his win vs MAB and Morales would prove to be of more significance than the one with JMM (again this is if all goes well). If Pac fails against Morales, then yes, he would need Marquez as this would be the optimum option to cement his credability as a top dog in the division.

Pac wasn't "great" after the Barrera win and he wasn't "great" after the JMM darw. He STILL wouldn't have been "great" had he won vs JMM. MORALES is the ultimate test for him. Morales is his ticket. Not Marquez. Why would you need somebody who refuses to fight you for glory and recognition?

Manny needs Marquez ONLY if he loses March 19. If he proves to be victorious against Erik Morales, his disposal of arguably 2 of the top featherweights of the past 10 years in 16 months would have already scratched his name in boxing history.

Marquez's KO percentage is almost as good as Pac. **** alot of Peeps say he's as good a puncher as ERIK MORALES!!! If Marquez really was boxing smart, he'd realize that Salido had no business being in the ring w/ him and turned up the pace of the fight and beat the crap of Salido. Instead he cruised to an unsatifying and boring victory. I was ashamed because I told some casual boxing fans that JMM was a p4p top 10 fighter; as they watched JMM "go to work" they either doozed off to sleep or talked about other sports. Sure style is style, but if you're in a different class than your opponent, you should blow him out of the water.

why take the risk? if you're in higher class than your opponent y take the risk? jmm doesnt fight for the crowd to like him he fights to get things done. there was no reason to rush things and possibly get caught.. hint*hint. no really tho, if you cant appreciate jmm's quality and style then you appreciate slugging not boxing.

Munn

At least in my eyes Marquez is mereley a second gatekeeper to Manny's journey to greatness. His win against Barrera steered him in teh right direction and his draw with Marquez should have proven that although not yet great, he's legit. The boxing' world's regard on Maqruez cannot even be compared to how the public regards EM and MAB. Should March 19 prove to be successfull for Pac, Pac would already have MAB and Morales' head on his legacy. If Pac gets a win with ALL 3 Mexicans, his win vs MAB and Morales would prove to be of more significance than the one with JMM (again this is if all goes well). If Pac fails against Morales, then yes, he would need Marquez as this would be the optimum option to cement his credability as a top dog in the division.

Pac wasn't "great" after the Barrera win and he wasn't "great" after the JMM darw. He STILL wouldn't have been "great" had he won vs JMM. MORALES is the ultimate test for him. Morales is his ticket. Not Marquez. Why would you need somebody who refuses to fight you for glory and recognition?

Manny needs Marquez ONLY if he loses March 19. If he proves to be victorious against Erik Morales, his disposal of arguably 2 of the top featherweights of the past 10 years in 16 months would have already scratched his name in boxing history.


how would you view marquez if pac beats morales and then he beats pac after? would u give him more credibility becuz marquez beat the man(pac) who the beat the man(morales) therefore making him the man? although right now since barreras win i'd say barrera, morales, and pac all share no.1 spot right now.

i'd say barrera, morales, and pac all share no.1 spot right now.
That's interesting. Pac has never had a share of the belts, except Ring's Belt, but you'll give him the same #1 rating as Morales and Barrera who have traded a Championship. Also, you've excluded Marquez, who has a Championship also.

So, how does Pac rate No. 1 again?

That's interesting. Pac has never had a share of the belts, except Ring's Belt, but you'll give him the same #1 rating as Morales and Barrera who have traded a Championship. Also, you've excluded Marquez, who has a Championship also.

So, how does Pac rate No. 1 again?
duh! The belts does not prove nothing...Its how the fighter fights and who the fighter beats!

Marquez has been strategic about the rematch. He cares very little about the trashing he takes at the hands of sports writer's, Manny lovers or anybody else for not making the rematch happen for less money. He doesn't care. Why? Because Manny must come back to Marquez to create his Legacy.

At this point, we expect that Manny could walk over Barrera and get one version of the Feather championship, if he chooses to take that fight some day. But fight fans and Manny want much more than that. Whoopin' Barrera again just doesn't matter to most people. We want the Marquez rematch.

Marquez will always be waiting for Manny, no matter who Manny goes through to get there. Manny knows this. Manny had his chance at greatness when he had Marquez down three times, but let it slip away. So, when Manny finishes with Morales, and possibly MAB, he'll still not have what he really wants .... a win over Marquez and a true Legacy.

Marquez's performance against Pacman afer Round #1 proved that he's a first-tier Champ, by taking Pac the distance. Now Pacman will have to prove himself against Morales and maybe MAB before he gets a chance to show that Marquez is just holding the belts for him. Marquez will be waiting patiently for Manny and don't kid yourself this time. Marquez won't need to be concerned about the payday anymore. You'll pay, I'll pay, we'll all want to see this one.
Nah! Marquez does not want to fight Manny because he knows that Manny is better than him! He just Chickened out!

Marquez has been strategic about the rematch. He cares very little about the trashing he takes at the hands of sports writer's, Manny lovers or anybody else for not making the rematch happen for less money. He doesn't care. Why? Because Manny must come back to Marquez to create his Legacy.

At this point, we expect that Manny could walk over Barrera and get one version of the Feather championship, if he chooses to take that fight some day. But fight fans and Manny want much more than that. Whoopin' Barrera again just doesn't matter to most people. We want the Marquez rematch.

Marquez will always be waiting for Manny, no matter who Manny goes through to get there. Manny knows this. Manny had his chance at greatness when he had Marquez down three times, but let it slip away. So, when Manny finishes with Morales, and possibly MAB, he'll still not have what he really wants .... a win over Marquez and a true Legacy.

Marquez's performance against Pacman afer Round #1 proved that he's a first-tier Champ, by taking Pac the distance. Now Pacman will have to prove himself against Morales and maybe MAB before he gets a chance to show that Marquez is just holding the belts for him. Marquez will be waiting patiently for Manny and don't kid yourself this time. Marquez won't need to be concerned about the payday anymore. You'll pay, I'll pay, we'll all want to see this one.
Pacmans legacy is in his own hands...Its not Pacmans fault if marquez does not want to fight him!

Marquez gets knocked out against Pacquiao next time, no question about it. There is a reason Marquez is running from Pacquiao.

That's interesting. Pac has never had a share of the belts, except Ring's Belt, but you'll give him the same #1 rating as Morales and Barrera who have traded a Championship. Also, you've excluded Marquez, who has a Championship also.

So, how does Pac rate No. 1 again?

Marquez is the ONLY one of these guys who has zero claim to be the best. Morales, Barrera, and Pacquiao at least fight each other. Marquez is nothing compared to these men.

how would you view marquez if pac beats morales and then he beats pac after? would u give him more credibility becuz marquez beat the man(pac) who the beat the man(morales) therefore making him the man? although right now since barreras win i'd say barrera, morales, and pac all share no.1 spot right now.

Time and time again, we hear this. Styles makes fights. You don't earn a spot in the Hall of Fame for ONE victory. Not Pac, not Marquez not nobody. If Marquez beats Pac, he would need to fight the other top dogs and emerge victorious to leave a legacy that is unquestioned. But of course, with a victory over Pac, it's an excellent steppping stone to superstardom. Greatness for me don't come in one day or in one fight.

Nah! Marquez does not want to fight Manny because he knows that Manny is better than him! He just Chickened out!

I see that Pac nuthuggers (note: not every Pacman fan is a nuthugger), when they're all out of arguments, rely on the "JMM chickened out" line.

They're probably still not over the fact that their boy got SCHOOLED for at least 9 of the remaining 11 rounds.

Real champs don't chicken out, and Marquez is as real as can be. So get over it already.

I see that Pac nuthuggers (note: not every Pacman fan is a nuthugger), when they're all out of arguments, rely on the "JMM chickened out" line.

They're probably still not over the fact that their boy got SCHOOLED for at least 9 of the remaining 11 rounds.

Real champs don't chicken out, and Marquez is as real as can be. So get over it already.

Marquez priced himself out. Period. If people wanna interpret it as chikening out (perfectly understandable)they might have a reason. Look at Zab. Guy took a 100K purse to fight Spinks.

Marquez priced himself out. Period. If people wanna interpret it as chikening out (perfectly understandable)they might have a reason. Look at Zab. Guy took a 100K purse to fight Spinks.

Who had the belts, Zab or Spinks? Do you think Spinks would have taken 100K to fight Zab?

Jmm was afraid to sign the contract no matter what he says. He will get koed if their is a rematch.

Afraid, ok.

<sigh>

It's useless.

*sigh*

Who had the belts, Zab or Spinks? Do you think Spinks would have taken 100K to fight Zab?

there was a 10:1 purse cut for a contender whats a 7:5 diffrence for a champ to finally get some recognition round these parts. Or even get the next big bouts! what's a mere 200$million for UNIVERSAL RESPECT. It ain't about the money, it's about the sacrifice. Name a fight thats likely to give him the same amount of purse.

Funny, for a champ with 2 belts, he don't sell much.

:cool:

there was a 10:1 purse cut for a contender whats a 7:5 diffrence for a champ to finally get some recognition round these parts. Or even get the next big bouts! what's a mere 200$million for UNIVERSAL RESPECT. It ain't about the money, it's about the sacrifice. Name a fight thats likely to give him the same amount of purse.

Funny, for a champ with 2 belts, he don't sell much.


Marquez gained UNIVERSAL RESPECT after getting off the canvas three times in one round, and give a boxing clinic soonthenafter. Apparently the only ones who don't respect JMM are, ironically, some Pacman fans.

JMM was putting his two belts on the table, while PacMan was putting nothing of the sort. AND he was going to get paid less? Excuse me?

And if PacMan was so eager to fight him again, why didn't he offer to even out the purses?

Could it be that he CHICKENED OUT???

Now, see how ridiculous that sounds? Then maybe you can understand the feeling of some boxing fans around here who are just sick and tired of listening to the same drivel about Marquez being afraid.

I see that Pac nuthuggers (note: not every Pacman fan is a nuthugger), when they're all out of arguments, rely on the "JMM chickened out" line.

They're probably still not over the fact that their boy got SCHOOLED for at least 9 of the remaining 11 rounds.

Real champs don't chicken out, and Marquez is as real as can be. So get over it already.
Pacman will take Marquez anytime! My question is will Marquez do the same? I don't think so!

Boxing clinic? Please....you fell in love with the idea of a "miraculous comeback" and blinded yourself of the fact that these rounds were close. You prolly scored it wha...12-2 for Marquez? Pffffff

The very first words that came out of Pac's mounth was "I want a rematch." He repeated and never retracted. What did JMM say "I'm not giving him a rematch because I think I won". Salido a mandatory? It's Pac's sparring mate now. lol but still anyweyz, it bought him some time. Now when everything seems set he prices himself out like that.

Even the purse? Pac had a guarantee cuz he got screwed with the Barrera fight. And that's what he got. Why the heck should he donate? Look what happened. Who's fighting March 19?

Anyweyz, I don't think he's a chicken, just a guy who didn't wanna fight. You can call it a ***** move or a buisiness move, fact remains he p-r-i-c-e-d h-i-m-s-e-l-f o-u-t.

Marquez gained UNIVERSAL RESPECT after getting off the canvas three times in one round, and give a boxing clinic soonthenafter. Apparently the only ones who don't respect JMM are, ironically, some Pacman fans.

JMM was putting his two belts on the table, while PacMan was putting nothing of the sort. AND he was going to get paid less? Excuse me?

And if PacMan was so eager to fight him again, why didn't he offer to even out the purses?

Could it be that he CHICKENED OUT???

Now, see how ridiculous that sounds? Then maybe you can understand the feeling of some boxing fans around here who are just sick and tired of listening to the same drivel about Marquez being afraid.
What universal respect? He had the change to fight Pacman again and he chickened out! For what money? Wow give me a break! Promoters are the one who decides how much purse a fighter would receive. Why should Pacman lower that his purse? Marquez needs the rematch more than Pacman!

What universal respect? He had the change to fight Pacman again and he chickened out! For what money? Wow give me a break! Promoters are the one who decides how much purse a fighter would receive. Why should Pacman lower that his purse? Marquez needs the rematch more than Pacman!


Kkk let's cool it on the chicken calling...

It'll be a good rematch and we'll leave it at that. Things get heat up around these parts :boxing:

Boxing clinic? Please....you fell in love with the idea of a "miraculous comeback" and blinded yourself of the fact that these rounds were close. You prolly scored it wha...12-2 for Marquez? Pffffff

The very first words that came out of Pac's mounth was "I want a rematch." He repeated and never retracted. What did JMM say "I'm not giving him a rematch because I think I won". Salido a mandatory? It's Pac's sparring mate now. lol but still anyweyz, it bought him some time. Now when everything seems set he prices himself out like that.

Even the purse? Pac had a guarantee cuz he got screwed with the Barrera fight. And that's what he got. Why the heck should he donate? Look what happened. Who's fighting March 19?

Anyweyz, I don't think he's a chicken, just a guy who didn't wanna fight. You can call it a ***** move or a buisiness move, fact remains he p-r-i-c-e-d h-i-m-s-e-l-f o-u-t.

12-2? What is this, a baseball game? :)

I scored it 114 - 112, 8-4 in rounds for Marquez. Most boxing experts think Marquez won, and most fans think PacMan won.

Look, the man was trying to get more money, and deservedly so. Obviously, he got screwed by Top Rank, who first said they'd get him more money, and the second after they were arranging a fight with Morales. You think that's pricing oneself out? Fine. I don't agree with you, but I'm fine with that.

What I'm not fine with is with the stupid ****s who have never even tried on a pair of ****ing gloves and yet are calling a true warrior, a "chicken". Not because he decided not to continue fighting, like Popo, but because he thought the money offered was just not fair for him. And can you blame him? I mean, it's hard enough to get in the ring and exchange bombs for 12 rounds with someone who hits like a God damn mule, then make it worth it. Pay the guy the right money.

Kkk let's cool it on the chicken calling...

It'll be a good rematch and we'll leave it at that. Things get heat up around these parts :boxing:
No prob! I think Pacman has his legacy in his hands!

Nah! Marquez does not want to fight Manny because he knows that Manny is better than him! He just Chickened out!
If you truly believe that Marquez chickened-out, you must not be a fight fan. What Marquez did in the Pac fight is not the stuff of chickens. Get real.

12-2? What is this, a baseball game? :)

I scored it 114 - 112, 8-4 in rounds for Marquez. Most boxing experts think Marquez won, and most fans think PacMan won.

Look, the man was trying to get more money, and deservedly so. Obviously, he got screwed by Top Rank, who first said they'd get him more money, and the second after they were arranging a fight with Morales. You think that's pricing oneself out? Fine. I don't agree with you, but I'm fine with that.

What I'm not fine with is with the stupid ****s who have never even tried on a pair of ****ing gloves and yet are calling a true warrior, a "chicken". Not because he decided not to continue fighting, like Popo, but because he thought the money offered was just not fair for him. And can you blame him? I mean, it's hard enough to get in the ring and exchange bombs for 12 rounds with someone who hits like a God damn mule, then make it worth it. Pay the guy the right money.

12-2 err wait lmao 10-2

Well the thing is I didn't agree that he was getting less, cuz I do think a champ should always be paid more. But he did demand 1.5million. And when you're purse from your last fight was 300K I mean, you need a little building block to start. How about 1 million? Anyweyz, it shouln't hurt him that bad cuz he's got a rematch in the bag with Pac if ever he wants to cash in later on. He better root for Pac in March though Gonna fatten that check :D

Nah I know about the disrespect and it ain't cool.

12-2 err wait lmao 10-2

Well the thing is I didn't agree that he was getting less, cuz I do think a champ should always be paid more. But he did demand 1.5million. And when you're purse from your last fight was 300K I mean, you need a little building block to start. How about 1 million? Anyweyz, it shouln't hurt him that bad cuz he's got a rematch in the bag with Pac if ever he wants to cash in later on. He better root for Pac in March though Gonna fatten that check :D

Nah I know about the disrespect and it ain't cool.

He was never gonna get 1.5 million, and I'm sure he knew that. I think he set that ceiling to be able to negotiate, as Top Rank would no doubt bargain him down. Thing is, he didn't even get the opportunity to negotiate. His situation got really ****ed up, really fast.

Now he'll face Harrison, a foe whom I have no doubt he'll dominate. PacMan has a tougher challenge, of course. But imo, winning or losing, Pacman and JMM will face again.

Anyway Mooks, you're cool. We'll no doubt have a lot to talk about next March 20th.

manny is one of my favorite fighters in boxing today... styles makes fights... and marquez style is perfect against pac style... i wanna see manny win... but marquez has a better chance of winning the fight...

If you truly believe that Marquez chickened-out, you must not be a fight fan. What Marquez did in the Pac fight is not the stuff of chickens. Get real.
If your a fight fan you would want the rematch to happen...I think Marquez needs the rematch more than Pacman! But dodging the opportunity to fight the man who floored you 3 times is being chicken! Marquez should fight Men like Barrera, Pacman, and Morales and not no name fighters. If he wants to be respected then fight whoever is in his way!

He was never gonna get 1.5 million, and I'm sure he knew that. I think he set that ceiling to be able to negotiate, as Top Rank would no doubt bargain him down. Thing is, he didn't even get the opportunity to negotiate. His situation got really ****ed up, really fast.

Now he'll face Harrison, a foe whom I have no doubt he'll dominate. PacMan has a tougher challenge, of course. But imo, winning or losing, Pacman and JMM will face again.

Anyway Mooks, you're cool. We'll no doubt have a lot to talk about next March 20th.

Fo sho. Happened to quick. Arum's screwing somebody in every fight. Dya know how much time is left in his contract?
There are plenty of contenders out there for good fights. And yah, Harrison's gonna get picked off to pieces.

He was never gonna get 1.5 million, and I'm sure he knew that. I think he set that ceiling to be able to negotiate, as Top Rank would no doubt bargain him down. Thing is, he didn't even get the opportunity to negotiate. His situation got really ****ed up, really fast.

Now he'll face Harrison, a foe whom I have no doubt he'll dominate. PacMan has a tougher challenge, of course. But imo, winning or losing, Pacman and JMM will face again.

Anyway Mooks, you're cool. We'll no doubt have a lot to talk about next March 20th.
Pacman gets 1.7M for the Morales fight...poor Marquez! Just messing around! lol

Fo sho. Happened to quick. Arum's screwing somebody in every fight. Dya know how much time is left in his contract?
There are plenty of contenders out there for good fights. And yah, Harrison's gonna get picked off to pieces.

I'm quite positive Harrison is his last fight with Top Rank

I'm quite positive Harrison is his last fight with Top Rank
If he is not happy with Top Rank then he should leave...Just make sure that next time around he is ready to face Pacman, Morales, and barrera head on!