View Full Version : Foreman completely overrated as a puncher.


Kid Achilles
02-11-2006, 04:55 PM
While I do agree that Foreman had murderous force behind his punches, similar in that respect to Max Baer, he was not the knockout puncher he is remembered as.

All of his big wins and stoppages show him him battering half dazed opponents to the canvas over and over again. He was good at cutting off the ring, and once he got you against the ropes he turned you into a human heavybag, but when did he ever knock a man unconscious with a single punch, or even a two or three punch combination, in the center of the ring like Louis, Dempsey, Lewis, and even Marciano managed to do in their careers? He didn't because he lacked the ability to do so. He either didn't have the timing, or perhaps it was that his punches were a fraction of a second too slow to pull off one of the most coveted tricks in boxing history: the one punch finish.

Foreman was a powerhouse for certain, but he was more of a clubber than a puncher. Ali was absolutely correct when he said the same thing about Foreman in the mid 70's. Foreman bludgeoned and smashed, and deadened the senses of his opponents, but he did not have the ability to win a fight against world class opposition with a single blow.

Dempsey 1919
02-11-2006, 05:00 PM
While I do agree that Foreman had murderous force behind his punches, similar in that respect to Max Baer, he was not the knockout puncher he is remembered as.

All of his big wins and stoppages show him him battering half dazed opponents to the canvas over and over again. He was good at cutting off the ring, and once he got you against the ropes he turned you into a human heavybag, but when did he ever knock a man unconscious with a single punch, or even a two or three punch combination, in the center of the ring like Louis, Dempsey, Lewis, and even Marciano managed to do in their careers? He didn't because he lacked the ability to do so. He either didn't have the timing, or perhaps it was that his punches were a fraction of a second too slow to pull off one of the most coveted tricks in boxing history: the one punch finish.

Foreman was a powerhouse for certain, but he was more of a clubber than a puncher. Ali was absolutely correct when he said the same thing about Foreman in the mid 70's. Foreman bludgeoned and smashed, and deadened the senses of his opponents, but he did not have the ability to win a fight against world class opposition with a single blow.

but foreman still has more power in his arms than anyone!

RockyMarcianofan00
02-11-2006, 05:04 PM
Problem was Foreman was an arm puncher he didn't use his legs only his arms but he could do that he was too big to do it any other way

He never finished ppl with big punches he finish ed with barrages so yes he is an overrated puncher but as far as power and barrages go he's pretty on the money
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Southpaw16
02-11-2006, 05:07 PM
While I do agree that Foreman had murderous force behind his punches, similar in that respect to Max Baer, he was not the knockout puncher he is remembered as.

All of his big wins and stoppages show him him battering half dazed opponents to the canvas over and over again. He was good at cutting off the ring, and once he got you against the ropes he turned you into a human heavybag, but when did he ever knock a man unconscious with a single punch, or even a two or three punch combination, in the center of the ring like Louis, Dempsey, Lewis, and even Marciano managed to do in their careers? He didn't because he lacked the ability to do so. He either didn't have the timing, or perhaps it was that his punches were a fraction of a second too slow to pull off one of the most coveted tricks in boxing history: the one punch finish.

Foreman was a powerhouse for certain, but he was more of a clubber than a puncher. Ali was absolutely correct when he said the same thing about Foreman in the mid 70's. Foreman bludgeoned and smashed, and deadened the senses of his opponents, but he did not have the ability to win a fight against world class opposition with a single blow.

The second coming of Foreman won many fights on a single blow on his route to the title. Most notably his knockout of Moorer, although Moorer isn't great. If you watch Foreman fight, his style was to put his hands out in front of him and muscle his opponents into the ropes, where he would start throwing bombs as his opponent is covering up. He never really liked to punch in the center of the ring, which is why he didn't score too many knockouts there. Maybe you are right in terms of his lacking timing, but in terms of pure force behind his punches I think Foreman is the best ever.

RockyMarcianofan00
02-11-2006, 05:08 PM
yea he also makes a mean hamburger on his grill
:-P
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Oasis_Lad
02-11-2006, 05:09 PM
yea he also makes a mean hamburger on his grill
:-P

sure does i have one! :D

RockyMarcianofan00
02-11-2006, 05:19 PM
i got the family sized one it, ppl say it dries the meat but you have to do it rite
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Dempsey 1919
02-11-2006, 05:20 PM
i got the family sized one it, ppl say it dries the meat but you have to do it rite

:hijacked:

Dirt E Gomez
02-11-2006, 05:22 PM
The second coming of Foreman won many fights on a single blow on his route to the title. Most notably his knockout of Moorer, although Moorer isn't great. If you watch Foreman fight, his style was to put his hands out in front of him and muscle his opponents into the ropes, where he would start throwing bombs as his opponent is covering up. He never really liked to punch in the center of the ring, which is why he didn't score too many knockouts there. Maybe you are right in terms of his lacking timing, but in terms of pure force behind his punches I think Foreman is the best ever.

You're crazy. He finished off Moorer with like 4 consecutive shots from him getting hit all match with the occasionally heavy hands of Foreman. I agree with most of Kid's post completely. Foreman had what in my eyes is the perfect example of Heavy Hands. They didn't knock you out with one shot as often as they'd just beat you to a pulp with each shot being so tough.

Brockton Lip
02-11-2006, 05:26 PM
i got the family sized one it, ppl say it dries the meat but you have to do it rite

I have the kind that fits about 2 hamburgers or 2 other things at a time. You're right it doesn't dry them out, that thing is great. Cook anything on that bad boy. Everyone should get one.

Dempsey 1919
02-11-2006, 05:46 PM
I have the kind that fits about 2 hamburgers or 2 other things at a time. You're right it doesn't dry them out, that thing is great. Cook anything on that bad boy. Everyone should get one.

again, :hijacked: !

Southpaw Stinger
02-11-2006, 06:14 PM
Them GF grills are the best! They are lean mean fat reducing grilling machines and no doubt about it!

Yogi
02-11-2006, 06:22 PM
If you watch Foreman fight, his style was to put his hands out in front of him and muscle his opponents into the ropes

For some reason this comment reminded me of Foreman's fight with Boone Kirkman, when, at the opening bell, Big George ran across the ring and simply gave Kirkman a two-handed shove to the canvas to begin the fight...

I think I'll dig up the tape with that fight on it later on today and have a bit of a chuckle.

Heckler
02-11-2006, 08:10 PM
Foreman had horrible technique. But his almost superhuman strength made up for it. I remember seeing this quote 'If foreman through his punches with technique, it would be illegal for him to fight against mere mortals'

Southpaw16
02-11-2006, 08:57 PM
You're crazy. He finished off Moorer with like 4 consecutive shots from him getting hit all match with the occasionally heavy hands of Foreman. I agree with most of Kid's post completely. Foreman had what in my eyes is the perfect example of Heavy Hands. They didn't knock you out with one shot as often as they'd just beat you to a pulp with each shot being so tough.

Foreman's KO of Moorer was effectively a one punch knockout. It is possible that some of the punches Foreman had landed earlier in the fight had contributed to it as well, but at the time of the knockout Moorer was not hurt and was winning the fight by a lot, and Foreman threw a single straight right hand down the middle that caught Moorer and floored him onto his back, out for ten. If that isn't a one punch knockout that I don't know what is.

Dempsey1238
02-12-2006, 12:25 AM
I agree, about 1990's Foreman, Foreman thought not the monster he was in the 1970's, IMPOVE his punch technique, He time his shots, and was able to land on the mark, for the ko, like he did vs Moore. Foreman can hit, But 1970's Foreman just swing for the fences. As he show vs Ali. It did not matter were Foreman hit you, as long as he was able to knock you down, OVER AND OVER AND OVER again. Foreman in the 1970's lack punching technique, that he would have in the 1990's. Thus he was able to stop Fraizer, and glass Jaw Norton(Who also keep getting up.) and not relly knock em out for a ten count.

he lack the timeing I belive, that Rock, Louis, Dempsey and others had for that one punch knockout we seen these guys pull off time and again.

Southpaw Stinger
02-12-2006, 06:58 AM
In the 1970's he clubbed his opponents into submission with reapeted powershots. He closed off the ring and then continued to pound you. He dropped people early so they were not really exausted and his punchers would not always land clean on the chin so a full 10 count was unlikely. His opponents became dazed though and found it harder to get up from each knock down.

I think if the ref didn't stop these fights they would eventually end in a ko. His opponents began to spit blood and become dizzy and dazed before the fight was stopped. They were demorilased and a few more knockdowns would keep em there.

90's Foreman was a smart puncher and he began looking for that special area where to land his big right.

JoartCC
02-12-2006, 09:48 AM
Foreman to my mind is one of the top10 p4p heaviest hitters in boxing.

I hate to point this out, but look at Ali, it is most likely the beating he got in his fight with Foreman was the main reason for his Parkinson's. Although Ali won that fight convincingly, Foreman destroyed his body, his nerves gave way from too much punching and the result is fatal.

Foreman isn't much of an accurate boxer, but during the later part of his career, he was able to refine his skills. A HW champ at 45 is no joke.

supaduck
02-12-2006, 10:18 AM
Foreman to my mind is one of the top10 p4p heaviest hitters in boxing.

More like top 2.

It was probably the Frazier fights that caused Ali's parkinsons more than the Foreman one.

JoartCC
02-12-2006, 12:21 PM
More like top 2.

It was probably the Frazier fights that caused Ali's parkinsons more than the Foreman one.
I would have to disagree. The fights with Frazier was more of a head hunting trip for Frazier and although Frazier hits hard, it's not as hard as Foreman.

Also, the Foreman fight saw Ali getting beat on all sides, most especially to the body. You have to consider that Parkinson's is a disease of the nerves. the body shots that Foreman inflicted to Ali are more likely suspect than Frazier's head hunting ways.

Boxclever
02-12-2006, 12:32 PM
Fighting, Punching, Longevity, Grilling.

Come on he's got it ALL :boxing:

Dempsey1238
02-12-2006, 01:28 PM
I would have to disagree. The fights with Frazier was more of a head hunting trip for Frazier and although Frazier hits hard, it's not as hard as Foreman.

Also, the Foreman fight saw Ali getting beat on all sides, most especially to the body. You have to consider that Parkinson's is a disease of the nerves. the body shots that Foreman inflicted to Ali are more likely suspect than Frazier's head hunting ways.

Than you have not watch the Fraizer fights if you think it was more of a head hunting trip. Fraizer dug to the body vs Ali, more than Foreman did.

I think Fraizer had more to do with it, than Foreman imo. Foreman hardly landed a clean shot, as Ali was able to block with his arms vs Foreman. Fraizer got in, and dug to the body, working his way to the head.

catskills23
02-12-2006, 04:06 PM
what proof is there that foreman hit harder than tyson ? .

Southpaw Stinger
02-12-2006, 04:48 PM
what proof is there that foreman hit harder than tyson ? .

KO percentage, speed of knockouts, opposition etc.

A lot of guys hit harder than Tyson, Marciano, Shavers, Foreman, Dempsey etc.

catskills23
02-12-2006, 06:04 PM
yeah but when foreman knocked someone they got up , when tyson knocked someone they usually didnt get up .

Oasis_Lad
02-12-2006, 06:16 PM
yeah but when foreman knocked someone they got up , when tyson knocked someone they usually didnt get up .

because he fought weaker opponents!

Heckler
02-12-2006, 06:43 PM
its not a condition of the nerves, its a NEURAL condition, its parkinsons syndrome a result brainstem trauma. What happens is the brain cannot communicate with the nerves properly, its a motorskills problem. Foreman landed some extremely hard blows to Ali's head, and that would of contributed.

Kid Achilles
02-12-2006, 11:01 PM
Actually a lot of the time Tyson's opponents got back up, and they were worse opponents as well.

RockyMarcianofan00
02-12-2006, 11:07 PM
problem is alot of really good fighters weren't tested the way others were

like the reason ppl think ali was good/ or they like ali is because he fought some of the best boxers ever, but then again he was also fighting when some of the best fighters were fighting, same thing with Foreman, but Tyson probably would have been tested better and been decided as a great or not if he fought then

there's the problem

Dempsey 1919
02-12-2006, 11:34 PM
For some reason this comment reminded me of Foreman's fight with Boone Kirkman, when, at the opening bell, Big George ran across the ring and simply gave Kirkman a two-handed shove to the canvas to begin the fight...

I think I'll dig up the tape with that fight on it later on today and have a bit of a chuckle.

oh, yeah! i have that fight, lol! :D

RockyMarcianofan00
02-13-2006, 12:12 AM
what proof is there that foreman hit harder than tyson ? .
i like tyson
and i like Foreman

but seriously man think about it Foreman is the strongest hitter in hw history

Tyson is up there maybe #7 but foreman easily hit harder

Tyson hit hard but guys like Foreman,marciano,and shavers were murderers
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Dempsey 1919
02-13-2006, 12:23 AM
i like tyson
and i like Foreman

but seriously man think about it Foreman is the strongest hitter in hw history

Tyson is up there maybe #7 but foreman easily hit harder

Tyson hit hard but guys like Foreman,marciano,and shavers were murderers

plus an old foreman did better against holyfield than a younger tyson did.

Boxclever
02-13-2006, 05:26 AM
In George's comeback it was obvious that he was calculating how much power to use just to win not to beat the guy up, now you would have to have AWESOME power to even think that way.

I Rest my case :cool:

Keleneki
02-13-2006, 07:24 AM
its not a condition of the nerves, its a NEURAL condition, its parkinsons syndrome a result brainstem trauma. What happens is the brain cannot communicate with the nerves properly, its a motorskills problem. Foreman landed some extremely hard blows to Ali's head, and that would of contributed.

I just saw that fight tonight one of those ESPN channels. It just amazes me how Ali could take some of those shots from Foreman. What a chin Ali had.

Southpaw Stinger
02-13-2006, 11:11 AM
I just saw that fight tonight one of those ESPN channels. It just amazes me how Ali could take some of those shots from Foreman. What a chin Ali had.

Indeed. No one could take a punch better than Muhammad Ali.

RockyMarcianofan00
02-13-2006, 12:45 PM
I just saw that fight tonight one of those ESPN channels. It just amazes me how Ali could take some of those shots from Foreman. What a chin Ali had.
well if ya look it really had nothing to do with his chin he was taking the shots to the body and to the gloves

and later over the shoulder :p
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Verstyle
02-13-2006, 01:13 PM
KO percentage, speed of knockouts, opposition etc.

A lot of guys hit harder than Tyson, Marciano, Shavers, Foreman, Dempsey etc. naw u didnt say that i think i need more sleep.
:)

Verstyle
02-13-2006, 01:15 PM
because he fought weaker opponents!


a chin is a ****in chin. there probably ppl in the world they dont know **** about boxin but they got a good chin. there r opponents that go the distance with super stars that were no bodies. jus cause your a good puncher that does nt mean it comes with an excellent chin ne also. ne 1 can have a good chin ;)

Verstyle
02-13-2006, 01:16 PM
Actually a lot of the time Tyson's opponents got back up, and they were worse opponents as well.

like i said a chin is a chin. ;) dont gotta be special to have a good chin

Southpaw Stinger
02-13-2006, 02:11 PM
naw u didnt say that i think i need more sleep.

Dempsey hit people hard, Tyson bit people hard!

Verstyle
02-13-2006, 02:17 PM
Dempsey hit people hard, Tyson bit people hard!


but u tried to say a little heavyweight hit harder then tyson.u r the fist person EVER i've heard say that and i mean EVER

Southpaw Stinger
02-13-2006, 02:30 PM
but u tried to say a little heavyweight hit harder then tyson.u r the fist person EVER i've heard say that and i mean EVER

Can't be the first. Do you agree that Marciano hit harder than Tyson? Marciano was smaller than Dempsey.

Dempsey 1919
02-13-2006, 04:46 PM
but u tried to say a little heavyweight hit harder then tyson.u r the fist person EVER i've heard say that and i mean EVER

for once i actually agree with you. no way dempsey or marciano packed the punch that tyson had.

RockyMarcianofan00
02-13-2006, 09:06 PM
for once i actually agree with you. no way dempsey or marciano packed the punch that tyson had.
'
how'd ya figure

tyson hit hard and fast and floored his opponents with barrages

Marciano would hit them twice and floor them he really wasn't fast enough to have the kind of barrages tyson had so thats why i think Marciano was stronger

what i liked about tyson was his head movement i was always very impressed with it
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sleazyfellow
02-14-2006, 12:58 AM
if u just look at both marciano and tysons build, u can just tell tyson hit harder....bigger arms, broader shoulders.

RockyMarcianofan00
02-14-2006, 01:00 AM
bigger arms don't make a person hit harder

tyson was bigger, muscle wise and stature

Marciano was natrually strong because nobody his size could hit the way hit did without being a natrually hard hitter
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BLOODSHED
02-14-2006, 04:02 AM
Foreman would beat Golota with his limp dick.

I like how you praised Golota earlier today but belittle Foreman.

Do you think before you type?
While I do agree that Foreman had murderous force behind his punches, similar in that respect to Max Baer, he was not the knockout puncher he is remembered as.

All of his big wins and stoppages show him him battering half dazed opponents to the canvas over and over again. He was good at cutting off the ring, and once he got you against the ropes he turned you into a human heavybag, but when did he ever knock a man unconscious with a single punch, or even a two or three punch combination, in the center of the ring like Louis, Dempsey, Lewis, and even Marciano managed to do in their careers? He didn't because he lacked the ability to do so. He either didn't have the timing, or perhaps it was that his punches were a fraction of a second too slow to pull off one of the most coveted tricks in boxing history: the one punch finish.

Foreman was a powerhouse for certain, but he was more of a clubber than a puncher. Ali was absolutely correct when he said the same thing about Foreman in the mid 70's. Foreman bludgeoned and smashed, and deadened the senses of his opponents, but he did not have the ability to win a fight against world class opposition with a single blow.

leff
02-14-2006, 06:27 AM
if u just look at both marciano and tysons build, u can just tell tyson hit harder....bigger arms, broader shoulders.

by your logic ronny coleman hist harder than tyson in other words your an idiot

Dempsey 1919
02-14-2006, 01:10 PM
'
how'd ya figure

tyson hit hard and fast and floored his opponents with barrages

Marciano would hit them twice and floor them he really wasn't fast enough to have the kind of barrages tyson had so thats why i think Marciano was stronger

what i liked about tyson was his head movement i was always very impressed with it

tyson fought better opponents.

Southpaw Stinger
02-14-2006, 01:12 PM
tyson fought better opponents.

Thats the first time I've ever heard you say that.

Dempsey 1919
02-14-2006, 01:34 PM
Thats the first time I've ever heard you say that.

tyson's opponents were bigger, stronger, and faster than marciano's opponents.

RockyMarcianofan00
02-14-2006, 03:26 PM
tyson fought better opponents.
not really

they both weren't tested to there potential
they also both fought at bleak times in boxing
so you can't really say that

i mean an aging larry holmes was probably worse then an aging Joe Louis so
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Dempsey 1919
02-14-2006, 03:50 PM
not really

they both weren't tested to there potential
they also both fought at bleak times in boxing
so you can't really say that

i mean an aging larry holmes was probably worse then an aging Joe Louis so

fighters in tyson's era were more evolved than fighters in marciano's era.

RockyMarcianofan00
02-14-2006, 04:05 PM
fighters in tyson's era were more evolved than fighters in marciano's era.
they were better boxers then the ones tyson fought

not stronger (i'm talking his early career not his later one after prison)
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Dempsey 1919
02-14-2006, 04:08 PM
they were better boxers then the ones tyson fought

not stronger (i'm talking his early career not his later one after prison)

but on average if tyson's opponents fought marciano's opponents, then marciano's opposition would get their butt kicked!

RockyMarcianofan00
02-14-2006, 04:14 PM
but on average if tyson's opponents fought marciano's opponents, then marciano's opposition would get their butt kicked!
on that same note
if Marciano faced Tyson's opponents then Marciano would rape there faces with fists lol
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Dempsey 1919
02-14-2006, 04:21 PM
on that same note
if Marciano faced Tyson's opponents then Marciano would rape there faces with fists lol

that doesn't mean anything, cause tyson would kill all of marciano's opponents!

Southpaw Stinger
02-14-2006, 04:45 PM
that doesn't mean anything, cause tyson would kill all of marciano's opponents!

True, Tyson would kill all of Marciano's opponents.

But I can see Marciano giving Tyson a tough fight!

Dempsey 1919
02-14-2006, 04:51 PM
True, Tyson would kill all of Marciano's opponents.

But I can see Marciano giving Tyson a tough fight!

to tell you the truth i can't. not prime tyson. marciano is way too small. i think one, maybe two rounds is all iron mike would need.

Southpaw Stinger
02-14-2006, 04:56 PM
Tyson would get a shock if the Rock landed a big right though. He never did like taking a hard punch!

I think Tyson would win I'm just saying Tyson would get a shock!

Dempsey 1919
02-14-2006, 04:58 PM
Tyson would get a shock if the Rock landed a big right though. He never did like taking a hard punch!

I think Tyson would win I'm just saying Tyson would get a shock!

on his best night, i doubt that would happen.

RockyMarcianofan00
02-14-2006, 07:40 PM
on his best night, i doubt that would happen.
Marciano would beat prime tyson BUT he would have to train differently,
the way tyson holds his hands if he wasn't ko'd after the 4th cause he ran out of steam, the fight would be stopped because there would be blood clots in tyson's arms

honestly before Marciano would go into that fight he would know that all he'd have to do is weave one of tyson's long hooks and he'd be in on the body

he'd throw a few hooks to the body, windmill upper cut, and then a Right cross and down goes tyson

and you can't say Tyson's size would be too much because tyson's an inch taller then Marciano and marciano early in his career fought guys like 6'5

:hijacked:
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Dempsey 1919
02-15-2006, 01:31 AM
Marciano would beat prime tyson BUT he would have to train differently,
the way tyson holds his hands if he wasn't ko'd after the 4th cause he ran out of steam, the fight would be stopped because there would be blood clots in tyson's arms

honestly before Marciano would go into that fight he would know that all he'd have to do is weave one of tyson's long hooks and he'd be in on the body

he'd throw a few hooks to the body, windmill upper cut, and then a Right cross and down goes tyson

and you can't say Tyson's size would be too much because tyson's an inch taller then Marciano and marciano early in his career fought guys like 6'5

:hijacked:

tyson was about 40lbs. heavier than tyson and way faster and stronger.

sleazyfellow
02-15-2006, 03:43 AM
by your logic ronny coleman hist harder than tyson in other words your an idiot

never said anything like that, i find it funny u say one thing and ppl r quick to jump n call u an idiot for saying it, i beleive dempsy>marciano>frazier>tyson they all expanded on the style of the last, so quit jumping on my nuts about it, broader shoulders=more leverage with punches and tyson would of raped marciano with lefts and rights, marciano never fought anything remotely close to tyson during his heyday, he didnt wait long enough for that to happen..