View Full Version : Who else could take a 74 Foreman.


Heckler
02-02-2006, 09:42 PM
I think Ali is one of the VERY few people, if not the only person that could take out Foreman.

Ali
And possibly Joe Louis.

Anyone else got some ideas.

king4fore
02-03-2006, 12:03 AM
I think Ali is one of the VERY few people, if not the only person that could take out Foreman.

Ali
And possibly Joe Louis.

Anyone else got some ideas.
I think sonny liston could.just as strong,equal in punching power, quicker,more stamina and a better boxer

RockyMarcianofan00
02-03-2006, 01:06 AM
sonny liston was not equal in power to George Foreman not by a long shot
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Dempsey 1919
02-03-2006, 01:31 AM
sonny liston was not equal in power to George Foreman not by a long shot

wasn't that far off though. liston, holmes, and ali are the only ones who would beat foreman that night.

Heckler
02-03-2006, 04:17 AM
I dont think either Liston or Holmes would beat him, but i think they atleast stood a chance.

Yaman
02-03-2006, 06:10 AM
There are quit some fighters who could beat him........using the rope a dope, tiring him out..if they survive.

Heckler
02-03-2006, 06:21 AM
Sportswriters have always noted. No-1 but Ali could do the rope a dope on Foreman. No-one had the handspeed to counter off the ropes in combination with a granite chin, ability to absorb punishment, and the brains to put plan into practice effectively other then Ali. It was Ali's intangible qualities, his toughness in combination with skill and smarts allowed him to take this one. You Yaman said Ali did nothing in that fight on another thread, which is false. From the way Ali controlled what action occured in center-ring, to his defensive manouveres on the ropes, to the flurries of counter-punches Ali timed perfectly when coming off the ropes... he displayed brilliance.

Yaman
02-03-2006, 08:30 AM
Ok so he was very tecnical and smart in the ring. but what i mean is he didn't try to create a fight. I think a young prime Ali would make a fight using his speed, getting out of the way quickly. Since Ali didn't have the speed annymore he used what a fighter doesn't loose soon chin, stamina and he had a great body, he could take Foreman's bombs.

Now, Goerge Foreman could only be beaten by less than 5 fighters i think. Maybe not even that much.

Frazier's 15th round
02-03-2006, 09:31 AM
The question should be who could take a 73 Foreman. The 74 one was drunk. But in any case, anyone who could actually move and was a clever boxer could beat old George, who always had his feet stuck in the mud.

Brassangel
02-03-2006, 11:14 AM
I think Larry Holmes could have, but he might have tried too hard to make a fight of it. Holmes was a skilled fighter, similar to the style of Ali, except his fights were generally more exciting. That's probably a bad sign when going into the ring against a 73-74 George Foreman. Even so, Holmes would have stood a good chance.

Southpaw Stinger
02-03-2006, 12:03 PM
I don't think Holmes would beat a prime Foreman. Ali had a much better chin than Holmes and in his fight with Foreman, the chin was crucial!

Kid Achilles
02-03-2006, 02:09 PM
I disagree that Ali had a much better chin. They each had an iron jaw.

paul750
02-03-2006, 02:42 PM
Yeah we all know the brutal shot that Holmes took off Shavers and got back up to win.

Dempsey 1919
02-03-2006, 04:01 PM
Yeah we all know the brutal shot that Holmes took off Shavers and got back up to win.

but when ali fought shavers he didn't even get floored, and ali was a shot fighter, and holmes was close to his prime when he fought shavers.

El Guapo
02-03-2006, 05:07 PM
i think quite a few people could,seriously he had faults like ali exposed,
young tyson could.
lennox maybe could with a tko cut.
joe louis
rocky the rock.
foreman may have been good but there is always a different style which you havent met!

Dempsey 1919
02-03-2006, 05:11 PM
i think quite a few people could,seriously he had faults like ali exposed,
young tyson could.
lennox maybe could with a tko cut.
joe louis
rocky the rock.
foreman may have been good but there is always a different style which you havent met!

"young" tyson ducked an old foreman, so no way he would beat a young one.

lewis' glass chin wouldn't make it out of the second round with foreman.

louis' glass chin and undersized body wouldn't make it out of the first.

rocky would be killed in about 1 minute of the first.

supaduck
02-03-2006, 05:21 PM
Lewis on TKO cut? does that even warrant a proper win? Your treating that like a legitimate dipsplay of better boxing.

Southpaw Stinger
02-03-2006, 05:55 PM
Lewis would die in a match with Foreman. As would Rocky and Tyson for that matter.

paul750
02-03-2006, 06:50 PM
Lewis would die in a match with Foreman. As would Rocky and Tyson for that matter.
Lewis would be too smart to get hurt.

Southpaw Stinger
02-03-2006, 07:45 PM
Lewis would be too smart to get hurt

like he was smart against Hasim Rahman and Oliver McCall? Lewis never fought anyone with Foremans power. Doesn't matter how smart you are, a lanky, slow glassed chinned fight like Lewis is just asking to be KO'd / injured by somone like Foreman and his sledge hammer shots.

El Guapo
02-03-2006, 07:51 PM
Lewis would be too smart to get hurt.
thank you, some one sees the true style of BOXING not hitting, anyone can hit some one, it takes a good brain and healthy body to box, foreman did not have this, if he did he wudda beat ali but no he done the obvious.
as for tyson ducking old foreman, so maybe he didnt want to fight him for a good reason, ever thought a fighter can have a reason for not fighting?
lewis had a pretty good chin actually.
rocky would wear foreman down then continuosly bang him down so i think your wrong!
o.k matbe louis wasn't the biggest of fighters but he sure was fast, just like ali was fast, speed is a much better fundamental for a boxer to have.

just like frazier said before the ali,foreman fight "hes got two fists, he has a chance".
so just stop for a moment and think about what a succesfull pro hw who fought ali and foreman said!

paul750
02-03-2006, 08:06 PM
like he was smart against Hasim Rahman and Oliver McCall? Lewis never fought anyone with Foremans power. Doesn't matter how smart you are, a lanky, slow glassed chinned fight like Lewis is just asking to be KO'd / injured by somone like Foreman and his sledge hammer shots.
Lewis wasn't slow, he was actually pretty fast for a guy of his size. the fights he lost where when he wasn't being smart, thats the whole point. he put on an absoloute masterclass against Rahman in the rematch. when Lewis respected his oppenent and even had a bit of fear, he used it as a positive, when he was in peak form, he let his boxing take care of business, Lewis in the Rahman rematch would be too slick, too smart, and his powerful shots would get Foremans attention. i believe Lewis perfomed best when faced with a very dangerous opponent look at Razor Ruddock, Lewis was only bad when he was too overconfident and ****y, when he was brought back down to earth, it made him perform, i think some people just don't like him and are jealous haters.

Yogi
02-03-2006, 08:15 PM
as for tyson ducking old foreman, so maybe he didnt want to fight him for a good reason, ever thought a fighter can have a reason for not fighting?

Sure fighters have a reason for not fighting someone and in the case of Tyson & Foreman, it had to do with Tyson being scared of the big guy and that's not only mine or Butterfly's opinion...Everyone associated with trying to match Tyson & Foreman up in the early 90's state the same thing, including Don King's matchmaker, Bob Goodman, who played a key role in trying to make the matchup;

"****in' Tyson is scared **** less of Foreman and wants no part of him."

sleazyfellow
02-04-2006, 02:25 AM
i say mike would of had nothing to do with young foreman, but the old foreman?? i think he had a good chance, but back to ppl who could handle 74 foreman....lennox comes to mind cause hes bigger than foreman, however prolly just mean foreman has more to hit...liston b4 he became heavyweight champ is a good choice too, he was absolutely brutal b4 he became champ...

THE REAL NINJA
02-04-2006, 03:51 AM
tyson yeah i said it

Pugnacious_Z
02-04-2006, 07:29 AM
what the hell is it with people saying that no1 could take Foremans punches on the arms and body like Ali. srsly man, they were both heavyweights and most of the shots were on the arms. No1 would give up infront of the whole world with those arm shots and crappy head shots he threw which were sloppy and not landing cleanly. If youse remember, foreman fought 5 guys in a row in an exhibition match like 6 months after the ali fight and 1 or 2 of the guys used the rope a dope and Foreman was still confused on what to do and they were pros with crappy records

M26
02-04-2006, 09:26 AM
I believe Joe Louis would stand a chance against the George Foreman that was defeated by Muhammad Ali. He was a brilliant boxer with fast, accurate and powerful punches. I can envision him blocking, countering and slipping Foremans bombs early on, to come back and stop Foreman later on. Foremans lack of stamina would give Louis a decent chance.

Maybe also a prime Larry Holmes.

Gene Tunney might stand a chance, because of his marvelous defensive abilities. Tunney is often underrated and overlooked, whilst he infact was a very gifted and clever boxer. He might be a bit too small though...

Dempsey 1919
02-04-2006, 02:42 PM
I believe Joe Louis would stand a chance against the George Foreman that was defeated by Muhammad Ali. He was a brilliant boxer with fast, accurate and powerful punches. I can envision him blocking, countering and slipping Foremans bombs early on, to come back and stop Foreman later on. Foremans lack of stamina would give Louis a decent chance.

Maybe also a prime Larry Holmes.

Gene Tunney might stand a chance, because of his marvelous defensive abilities. Tunney is often underrated and overlooked, whilst he infact was a very gifted and clever boxer. He might be a bit too small though...

joe louis and gene tunney? excuse me but louis' chin was made of porcelain. now take louis' glass chin and the hardest hitting fighter ever and see what happens? :rolleyes:

and gene tunney is way too small for louis. he's a lhw and foreman is a big strong hw. tunney would last the first 30 seconds with foreman, if that much.

but yes, prime holmes would beat george foreman, though.

Southpaw Stinger
02-04-2006, 03:49 PM
prime holmes would beat george foreman, though.

no..........

Dempsey 1919
02-04-2006, 04:00 PM
no..........

holmes style is similar to ali.

RockyMarcianofan00
02-04-2006, 04:13 PM
but ali is smarter then holmes plus even though holmes is smilar that doesn't make him ali
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Dempsey 1919
02-04-2006, 04:19 PM
but ali is smarter then holmes plus even though holmes is smilar that doesn't make him ali

a young holmes IMO is better than an old ali so holmes would beat foreman, too.

Frazier's 15th round
02-04-2006, 04:30 PM
I don't know why Holmes is considered Ali's inferior. He whooped Ali's ass head to head. Holmes is better, in my opinion.

Dempsey 1919
02-04-2006, 04:35 PM
I don't know why Holmes is considered Ali's inferior. He whooped Ali's ass head to head. Holmes is better, in my opinion.

haha, holmes is better than ali, but holmes couldn't handle michael spinks? and so i guess you think spinks could beat prime ali? holmes beat ali head to head? i don't feel i have to explain anything, your statement speaks for itself. how about this: about 7 or 8 years before that, holmes was bragging that he whupped up on ali in sparring practice, and when ali heard that, he went down and beat the **** out of holmes and holmes was crying like a little *****! and this wasn't even prime ali, so imagine if it was what would have happened.

DaddysBoy
02-04-2006, 05:10 PM
haha, holmes is better than ali, but holmes couldn't handle michael spinks? and so i guess you think spinks could beat prime ali? holmes beat ali head to head? i don't feel i have to explain anything, your statement speaks for itself. how about this: about 7 or 8 years before that, holmes was bragging that he whupped up on ali in sparring practice, and when ali heard that, he went down and beat the **** out of holmes and holmes was crying like a little *****! and this wasn't even prime ali, so imagine if it was what would have happened.

****in true! ali would destroy holmes. eventhough holmes was good, he would be facing a faster and tougher version of himself. i say any version of ali up until 75 would beat prime holmes.

El Guapo
02-04-2006, 06:39 PM
holmes style is similar to ali.
ok so now style matters, although lewis or louis style wasnt good enough. your otta ya mind, and ali took george with fast jab/staights and half power hooks, tyson and lewis can hit way harder than that, plus lewis has a reach advantage,plus lewis was faster, and more adgile and more sensible with power players, and once again im saying LEWIS' CHIN WAS NOT THE BEST, BUT IT WAS ALSO NOT GLASS!!!!IT WAS PRETTY GOOD!!!!

Dempsey 1919
02-04-2006, 06:42 PM
ok so now style matters, although lewis or louis style wasnt good enough. your otta ya mind, and ali took george with fast jab/staights and half power hooks, tyson and lewis can hit way harder than that, plus lewis has a reach advantage,plus lewis was faster, and more adgile and more sensible with power players, and once again im saying LEWIS' CHIN WAS NOT THE BEST, BUT IT WAS ALSO NOT GLASS!!!!IT WAS PRETTY GOOD!!!!

yes, styles make fights, most of the time.

Frazier's 15th round
02-04-2006, 06:49 PM
haha, holmes is better than ali, but holmes couldn't handle michael spinks? and so i guess you think spinks could beat prime ali? holmes beat ali head to head? i don't feel i have to explain anything, your statement speaks for itself. how about this: about 7 or 8 years before that, holmes was bragging that he whupped up on ali in sparring practice, and when ali heard that, he went down and beat the **** out of holmes and holmes was crying like a little *****! and this wasn't even prime ali, so imagine if it was what would have happened.

I'm talking head to head. Holmes vs Ali. Spinks has nothing to do with it. Sparring has nothing to do with it. Holmes kicked Ali's ass with ease. Butterbean put up a better fight.

Southpaw Stinger
02-04-2006, 07:03 PM
Holmes kicked Ali's ass with ease. Butterbean put up a better fight.

Ali had Parkinsons and was taking el-dopa when he fought Holmes! He was old and out of condition, that is a pathetic example of an Ali fight.

Southpaw Stinger
02-04-2006, 07:07 PM
holmes style is similar to ali.

And.... It wasn't Ali's youthful style that Holmes used that beat Foreman. It was Ali's brain, chin, attitude and his way of pulling it all together that beat Foreman.

Tyson style was similar to Frazier, would he beat Ali?

Warhawk46
02-04-2006, 08:08 PM
Tyson's style was actually not very similar to Tyson's. People say they are because both men were short and powerful guys who came after their opponent.

But in reality, there were many differences. Joe Frazier had that killer left hook, but that was about the extent of his punches. Sure he used the other punches, but he relied too heavily on his left hook (can't say I blame him because it was a great one!)

Frazier's bob and weave technique was actually fairly easy to hit. In fact, it had been pointed out about him that we would take two or three punches to land one. He took a lot of punches, as his style dictated.

Tyson's style on the other hand was all about moving the head, especially after the crucial last punch. Tyson's defense was masterful when he was with his original team. He employed the D'Amato system to near perfection. He rarely got hit by a flush punch during his time with Team Catskills. And this was against men who had much faster hands than big George.

Also, the deal about Tyson being scared to fight George Foreman is wholly exaggerated. This story has become so blown out of proportion that it borders on total myth. Steve Lott, one of Tyson's friends during his time with his original team and with whome Tyson lived in New York after he won the championship, said that Cayton had several fights lined up that didnt materialize because one Don King got his claws around Mike, Don controlled how things were to be ran. King's whole organization is full of lies and deception. Be wary of believe what comes out of his camp.

Foreman comes across as an invincible monster because of his destruction of Frazier. Joe got hit with a great punch and after that first one, he wasn't the same. He was going to go down again because he was hurt. The following knockdowns stem from the first shot, Joe was going to lose that fight.

But one must also note that Frazier was much easier to hit than prime Tyson. Could Foreman have landed that flush shot on Tyson? Maybe. Maybe not. I just think it is pure laziness and bias to just go with the whole "Foreman destroyed Frazier so he would destroy Tyson" argumen. It is not only a reach, but poor debate.

I believe Holmes could have beat Big George. Liston could have as well. I tend to favor the 70s Ali over the 60s Ali against Foreman. Sure the 60s Ali could dance, but he was also smaller and had previously been dropped by little Henry Cooper, who was far from Foreman in the power department.

In the Rumble in the Jungle, Foreman threw any semeblence of technique he had out the window. He threw ineffective haymakers and arm punches the entire fight. It was a pathetic effort. George tired himself out quickly and was knocked out by exhaustion as much as by Ali. Still, it is probably Ali's crowning achievement. Ali was magnificant.

M26
02-05-2006, 09:14 AM
Tyson's style was actually not very similar to Tyson's. People say they are because both men were short and powerful guys who came after their opponent.

But in reality, there were many differences. Joe Frazier had that killer left hook, but that was about the extent of his punches. Sure he used the other punches, but he relied too heavily on his left hook (can't say I blame him because it was a great one!)

Frazier's bob and weave technique was actually fairly easy to hit. In fact, it had been pointed out about him that we would take two or three punches to land one. He took a lot of punches, as his style dictated.

Tyson's style on the other hand was all about moving the head, especially after the crucial last punch. Tyson's defense was masterful when he was with his original team. He employed the D'Amato system to near perfection. He rarely got hit by a flush punch during his time with Team Catskills. And this was against men who had much faster hands than big George.

Also, the deal about Tyson being scared to fight George Foreman is wholly exaggerated. This story has become so blown out of proportion that it borders on total myth. Steve Lott, one of Tyson's friends during his time with his original team and with whome Tyson lived in New York after he won the championship, said that Cayton had several fights lined up that didnt materialize because one Don King got his claws around Mike, Don controlled how things were to be ran. King's whole organization is full of lies and deception. Be wary of believe what comes out of his camp.

Foreman comes across as an invincible monster because of his destruction of Frazier. Joe got hit with a great punch and after that first one, he wasn't the same. He was going to go down again because he was hurt. The following knockdowns stem from the first shot, Joe was going to lose that fight.

But one must also note that Frazier was much easier to hit than prime Tyson. Could Foreman have landed that flush shot on Tyson? Maybe. Maybe not. I just think it is pure laziness and bias to just go with the whole "Foreman destroyed Frazier so he would destroy Tyson" argumen. It is not only a reach, but poor debate.

I believe Holmes could have beat Big George. Liston could have as well. I tend to favor the 70s Ali over the 60s Ali against Foreman. Sure the 60s Ali could dance, but he was also smaller and had previously been dropped by little Henry Cooper, who was far from Foreman in the power department.

In the Rumble in the Jungle, Foreman threw any semeblence of technique he had out the window. He threw ineffective haymakers and arm punches the entire fight. It was a pathetic effort. George tired himself out quickly and was knocked out by exhaustion as much as by Ali. Still, it is probably Ali's crowning achievement. Ali was magnificant.

A very good post!

supaduck
02-05-2006, 05:22 PM
I highly doubt Liston would beat Foreman. His destruction of Floyd Patterson looked good, but lets not forget Patterson was a cruiserweight and shorter than Liston.

Dempsey 1919
02-05-2006, 06:12 PM
I highly doubt Liston would beat Foreman. His destruction of Floyd Patterson looked good, but lets not forget Patterson was a cruiserweight and shorter than Liston.

one inch is not that much.

Heckler
02-06-2006, 05:00 PM
I'm talking head to head. Holmes vs Ali. Spinks has nothing to do with it. Sparring has nothing to do with it. Holmes kicked Ali's ass with ease. Butterbean put up a better fight.

You should leave Boxingscene and never come back. I actually respected your opinion previously, now i think your nothing but a little Ali-hating ***** thats always trying to pick at him because he beat Frazier in and out of the ring... get the **** over it.

Heckler
02-06-2006, 05:13 PM
Tyson's style was actually not very similar to Tyson's. People say they are because both men were short and powerful guys who came after their opponent.

But in reality, there were many differences. Joe Frazier had that killer left hook, but that was about the extent of his punches. Sure he used the other punches, but he relied too heavily on his left hook (can't say I blame him because it was a great one!)

Frazier's bob and weave technique was actually fairly easy to hit. In fact, it had been pointed out about him that we would take two or three punches to land one. He took a lot of punches, as his style dictated.

Tyson's style on the other hand was all about moving the head, especially after the crucial last punch. Tyson's defense was masterful when he was with his original team. He employed the D'Amato system to near perfection. He rarely got hit by a flush punch during his time with Team Catskills. And this was against men who had much faster hands than big George.

Also, the deal about Tyson being scared to fight George Foreman is wholly exaggerated. This story has become so blown out of proportion that it borders on total myth. Steve Lott, one of Tyson's friends during his time with his original team and with whome Tyson lived in New York after he won the championship, said that Cayton had several fights lined up that didnt materialize because one Don King got his claws around Mike, Don controlled how things were to be ran. King's whole organization is full of lies and deception. Be wary of believe what comes out of his camp.

Foreman comes across as an invincible monster because of his destruction of Frazier. Joe got hit with a great punch and after that first one, he wasn't the same. He was going to go down again because he was hurt. The following knockdowns stem from the first shot, Joe was going to lose that fight.

But one must also note that Frazier was much easier to hit than prime Tyson. Could Foreman have landed that flush shot on Tyson? Maybe. Maybe not. I just think it is pure laziness and bias to just go with the whole "Foreman destroyed Frazier so he would destroy Tyson" argumen. It is not only a reach, but poor debate.

I believe Holmes could have beat Big George. Liston could have as well. I tend to favor the 70s Ali over the 60s Ali against Foreman. Sure the 60s Ali could dance, but he was also smaller and had previously been dropped by little Henry Cooper, who was far from Foreman in the power department.

In the Rumble in the Jungle, Foreman threw any semeblence of technique he had out the window. He threw ineffective haymakers and arm punches the entire fight. It was a pathetic effort. George tired himself out quickly and was knocked out by exhaustion as much as by Ali. Still, it is probably Ali's crowning achievement. Ali was magnificant.


why do people bring up Henry Cooper. First it was a YOUNG, naieve cassius clay, He walked INTO a right hook, that punch would drop most boxers. He wasn't at his physical peak until 66-67, and in 66 in the rematch he decimated Cooper.... Ironic isn't it? considering you were commenting on someones poor argument.

Heckler
02-06-2006, 05:16 PM
Cus d'amato essentially MADE tyson, and his style. And he stated that no-1 would ever win in a slugfest with Foreman, and they wouldn't. Foreman would uppercut Tysons head off... if you cant see this you are blinded.

Southpaw Stinger
02-06-2006, 06:14 PM
Can't argue with Cus d'amato. He knew Tysons strengths and weaknesses and knew that Foreman would destroy Tyson.

Dempsey 1919
02-06-2006, 06:28 PM
Can't argue with Cus d'amato. He knew Tysons strengths and weaknesses and knew that Foreman would destroy Tyson.

he sure would.

supaduck
02-07-2006, 09:41 AM
Foreman is a killing machine, and the short, bobber/weavers stood no chance against him.. Ali was the slugger destroyer, power punching slow guys would be annihilated by him.

oldgringo
02-07-2006, 01:04 PM
The only guy other than Ali that I can see standing up to Foreman is Holmes.

Holmes had just about everything neccessary to get the job done. Jab, chin, right hand, intelligence, heart, etc. I see him maybe being dropped late, but taking a very close decision of George who would tire a bit late.

All of the smallish heavyweights would be mauled by those clubbing shots Foreman threw.

El Guapo
02-07-2006, 01:14 PM
why do people bring up Henry Cooper. First it was a YOUNG, naieve cassius clay, He walked INTO a right hook, that punch would drop most boxers. He wasn't at his physical peak until 66-67, and in 66 in the rematch he decimated Cooper.... Ironic isn't it? considering you were commenting on someones poor argument.

Nicely Said,
im from england like cooper, i dont care if he knocked ali down,ali finneshed him straight after just like lewis did with mccall and rahman,they dont bother me at all either, a nock down is nothing in alis records!

El Guapo
02-07-2006, 01:19 PM
The only guy other than Ali that I can see standing up to Foreman is Holmes.

Holmes had just about everything neccessary to get the job done. Jab, chin, right hand, intelligence, heart, etc. I see him maybe being dropped late, but taking a very close decision of George who would tire a bit late.

All of the smallish heavyweights would be mauled by those clubbing shots Foreman threw.

whats gonna happen if he cant hit em?
(****ing hell ALI could hardly hit fraizer in that one fight and ali is alot cleaner than foreman).
so..... he would get tired like with ali and get either out pointed or k.o.ed, herbie hide could catch foreman right on the chin and i have proof that herbie could hit as good a k.o punch as foreman and thats no lie at all!!!
speed is a key fundimental against power, especially for that blind k.o. punch!

oldgringo
02-07-2006, 01:33 PM
whats gonna happen if he cant hit em?
(****ing hell ALI could hardly hit fraizer in that one fight and ali is alot cleaner than foreman).
so..... he would get tired like with ali and get either out pointed or k.o.ed, herbie hide could catch foreman right on the chin and i have proof that herbie could hit as good a k.o punch as foreman and thats no lie at all!!!
speed is a key fundimental against power, especially for that blind k.o. punch!


I don't understand what you are trying to say...?

Are you saying that Foreman would knock out Holmes late? Or are you saying that Foreman couldn't catch smallish heavyweights?

Elaborate.

El Guapo
02-07-2006, 01:41 PM
I don't understand what you are trying to say...?

Are you saying that Foreman would knock out Holmes late? Or are you saying that Foreman couldn't catch smallish heavyweights?

Elaborate.

im not saying he couldnt, or for that he could catch smaller heavywieghts, but there is allwasy a way to beat someone whoever they are!!
can you tell me that foreman was the best heavywieght boxer ever, other than ali?
because thats not true at all!
i meen god saik everyone who thinks noone could take foreman, REALITY CHECK, lennox COULD(not sayin would),young tyson could(not sayin would),louis could(not sayin would),marciano could(not sayin would). its called boxing with tactics and stratagie.

oldgringo
02-07-2006, 01:49 PM
im not saying he couldnt, or for that he could catch smaller heavywieghts, but there is allwasy a way to beat someone whoever they are!!
can you tell me that foreman was the best heavywieght boxer ever, other than ali?
because thats not true at all!
i meen god saik everyone who thinks noone could take foreman, REALITY CHECK, lennox COULD(not sayin would),young tyson could(not sayin would),louis could(not sayin would),marciano could(not sayin would). its called boxing with tactics and stratagie.


This is true, but in many of these guys cases the strategic and sheer physical edge goes to George.

We have already seen him in against a smaller, elite heavyweight in Frazier. We all know what happened to Joe...

Tyson would get much of the same from Foreman and so would Marciano. Foreman simply clubbed smaller heavyweights who came at him. He wouldn't be afraid of Tyson, he'd have the chin to take his shots, but I don't think Tyson could do the same with George. Tysons speed and head movement would help him a little, but he'd still be put on his butt.

Louis wouldn't have the chin to stand up to a Foreman onslaught. He's just not strong enough to keep George off of him.

And to answer the last statement, I have Foreman as my 4th greatest HW ever.

Ali
Louis
Holmes
Foreman
Marciano

Yaman
02-07-2006, 01:49 PM
im not saying he couldnt, or for that he could catch smaller heavywieghts, but there is allwasy a way to beat someone whoever they are!!
can you tell me that foreman was the best heavywieght boxer ever, other than ali?
because thats not true at all!
i meen god saik everyone who thinks noone could take foreman, REALITY CHECK, lennox COULD(not sayin would),young tyson could(not sayin would),louis could(not sayin would),marciano could(not sayin would). its called boxing with tactics and stratagie.

Exactly. And its not just Foreman who was seemingly invincible. No fighter ever was invincible.

El Guapo
02-07-2006, 01:50 PM
im glad exige posted this in a different thread!
-CLICK HERE- (http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...=george+foreman)
look how open he is, you cant say he wouldnt get caught good!
Karma to exige!

oldgringo
02-07-2006, 01:51 PM
im glad exige posted this in a different thread!
-CLICK HERE- (http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...=george+foreman)
look how open he is, you cant say he wouldnt get caught good!
Karma to exige!


When people caught Foreman he'd laugh at them.

El Guapo
02-07-2006, 01:57 PM
When people caught Foreman he'd laugh at them.
i dont think he would laf at a clean tyson or lennox punch in their good old days(remembering that ali took him out with swift jabs/straights and half power hooks), and rocky could take a solid pasting for 15, so i think he could wear foreman down within 10 like ali did, a punch is much harder to take on the body than the head right!

Dempsey 1919
02-07-2006, 02:32 PM
i dont think he would laf at a clean tyson or lennox punch in their good old days(remembering that ali took him out with swift jabs/straights and half power hooks), and rocky could take a solid pasting for 15, so i think he could wear foreman down within 10 like ali did, a punch is much harder to take on the body than the head right!

man, if you think that rocky would have a chance against foreman, then you are derranged! rocky could get out of 25 sec. with foreman, and i'm not exaggerating either. foreman needs about 4 shots for a ko. marciano would probably go down evertime forman hit him.

RockyMarcianofan00
02-07-2006, 04:41 PM
are you kidding me, he wouldn't ko him in 4 shots it would take many more

but all rocky would need to bob Foremans punch and get inside on him
but if Rocky Would have any chance at winning it wouldn't be til late rounds. I think Foreman would dominate the first couple rounds but, George would tire out and Rocky would KO him
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Dempsey 1919
02-07-2006, 04:44 PM
are you kidding me, he wouldn't ko him in 4 shots it would take many more

but all rocky would need to bob Foremans punch and get inside on him
but if Rocky Would have any chance at winning it wouldn't be til late rounds. I think Foreman would dominate the first couple rounds but, George would tire out and Rocky would KO him

wow, if marciano lasted one round with foreman it would be the biggest shock in boxing history! if foreman chopped off one of his arms, he still would ko rocky in about 1 1/2 minutes. this is just a stupid argument. rocky would have a way better chance of beating muhammad ali than george foreman.

Southpaw Stinger
02-07-2006, 05:03 PM
wow, if marciano lasted one round with foreman it would be the biggest shock in boxing history! if foreman chopped off one of his arms, he still would ko rocky in about 1 1/2 minutes. this is just a stupid argument. rocky would have a way better chance of beating muhammad ali than george foreman.

Very true. Marciano and Foreman are a terrible match up. Obviously Marciano would advance on Foreman and we'd be reading about Marciano's death in the morning paper!

Dempsey 1919
02-07-2006, 05:10 PM
Very true. Marciano and Foreman are a terrible match up. Obviously Marciano would advance on Foreman and we'd be reading about Marciano's death in the morning paper!

that's for sure!

RockyMarcianofan00
02-07-2006, 05:16 PM
i think you underrate marciano's strength, i mean it would be a hard match either way because along with strength Foreman had boxing ability but comeon u make it sound like Rocky would just take it
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Dempsey 1919
02-07-2006, 05:25 PM
i think you underrate marciano's strength, i mean it would be a hard match either way because along with strength Foreman had boxing ability but comeon u make it sound like Rocky would just take it

what does strength and toughtness have to do with a plain and simple bad style matchup. frazier had punching ability and all that, but when he fought foreman, all that didn't matter. smae here, only worse.

Kid Achilles
02-07-2006, 05:33 PM
Explain why it's worse when Marciano had a better chin, knockout power in both hands as opposed to one, and was more difficult to hit. To me that sounds better.

Dempsey 1919
02-07-2006, 05:34 PM
Explain why it's worse when Marciano had a better chin, knockout power in both hands as opposed to one, and was more difficult to hit. To me that sounds better.

because frazier id superior to marciano in every way. size, strength, power, speed, chin, everything!

RockyMarcianofan00
02-08-2006, 12:35 AM
Frazier was close to marciano in everything but strength,heart and stamina

beside that he matched him and even in heart and stamina it was very close

Frazier was also very strong
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oldgringo
02-08-2006, 01:15 AM
Explain why it's worse when Marciano had a better chin, knockout power in both hands as opposed to one, and was more difficult to hit. To me that sounds better.

Explain. From what I've seen of both guys theres little evidence to suggest that Marciano was more elusive than Joe.

Simple fact was Foreman ate up smaller fighters who came at him. This is exactly what Rock would do and he'd be butchered. If he somehow survived being knocked out cold he'd be stopped on cuts. I can't think of one scenario when the best form of Rocky beats the best form of Foreman.

I'm interested to hear your take on it though.

Heckler
02-08-2006, 06:04 PM
Explain why it's worse when Marciano had a better chin, knockout power in both hands as opposed to one, and was more difficult to hit. To me that sounds better.

Personally i dont believe that rocky was more harder to hit, when watching his footage his movement looks alot slower and his bobbing and weaving doesn't look as effective, thats just my personal belief and observation. Power difference between Frazier and Marciano is pretty irrelevant in this situation, Its handspeed that will help neutralise Foreman... and Frazier definately had the edge in this. Frazier has the speed, Marciano the jaw and i can't call who would last longer. Marciano may last a little longer, but within 5 rounds i would say. Cus D'amato said that no-one would ever win a slugfest against George Foreman... Marciano only knows one way, thats forward and throwing as many punches as he can anywhere he can hit. Him being a swarmer im certain he would be decimated by an uppercut. Styles make fights, as a result Foreman Ko's Marciano within 5 rounds.

Brockton Lip
02-08-2006, 06:30 PM
From what I've seen of both guys theres little evidence to suggest that Marciano was more elusive than Joe.

Marciano was different defensively. He wasn't big and kept low while leaning back a little bit. To hit him someone would have to commit themselves to it unless they were able to poke at him when he moved in.

Dempsey 1919
02-08-2006, 06:34 PM
Marciano was different defensively. He wasn't big and kept low while leaning back a little bit. To hit him someone would have to commit themselves to it unless they were able to poke at him when he moved in.

frazier was way harder to hit than marciano. his bobbing and weaving was very fast and even gave ali trouble.

TKOin1st
02-08-2006, 08:02 PM
Young George Foreman would have been very hard to beat for anyone.

Dempsey 1919
02-08-2006, 08:08 PM
Young George Foreman would have been very hard to beat for anyone.

not for young ali.

Southpaw Stinger
02-08-2006, 08:15 PM
not for young ali.


Young Ali was too inexperienced for someone like Foreman. Older Ali was much better for the job.

Heckler
02-08-2006, 09:05 PM
a 67 ali would deal to Foreman just because of they way Foremans style plays into his hands.... but it would never be EASY when you are fighting the most powerful, devestating puncher of all time.

Dempsey 1919
02-09-2006, 01:03 AM
Young Ali was too inexperienced for someone like Foreman. Older Ali was much better for the job.

i'm talking about 1967 ali, not '60 clay. :rolleyes:

Prime Tyson
02-10-2006, 10:51 AM
Young George Foreman would have been very hard to beat for anyone.

Not for Prime Tyson who would've knocked the piss out of Foreman in the very first round!

Southpaw Stinger
02-10-2006, 12:11 PM
Not for Prime Tyson who would've knocked the piss out of Foreman in the very first round!

LOL! Tyson is **** compared to Foreman. Cus Da Matto even said Tyson would get ****ed up by Foreman. Tyson also ducked an old Foreman because he was **** scared of him. :boxing:

Prime Tyson
02-10-2006, 12:56 PM
LOL! Tyson is **** compared to Foreman. Cus Da Matto even said Tyson would get ****ed up by Foreman. Tyson also ducked an old Foreman because he was **** scared of him. :boxing:

You don't know what you're talking about, man! :rolleyes:

Cus died only a few short months after Mike turned pro, so whether he said that or not it's completely irrelevant because Cus wasn't around to see what a destructive machine PRIME TYSON had become a couple years later.

Prime Tyson would've destroyed Foreman the exact same way he destroyed Michael Spinks, who, because of the natural evolution of boxing, was even a better fighter than Foreman was when he was younger!

Dempsey 1919
02-10-2006, 01:10 PM
You don't know what you're talking about, man! :rolleyes:

Cus died only a few short months after Mike turned pro, so whether he said that or not it's completely irrelevant because Cus wasn't around to see what a destructive machine PRIME TYSON had become a couple years later.

Prime Tyson would've destroyed Foreman the exact same way he destroyed Michael Spinks, who, because of the natural evolution of boxing, was even a better fighter than Foreman was when he was younger!

we don't need another tyson nuthugger on this forum, okay? foreman would obliterate tyson in three, a-hole, cause it's a bad style matchup. tyson was scared of foreman, so shut the hell up.

Prime Tyson
02-10-2006, 01:26 PM
we don't need another tyson nuthugger on this forum, okay? foreman would obliterate tyson in three, a-hole, cause it's a bad style matchup. tyson was scared of foreman, so shut the hell up.

You're just an Ali nuthugger who knows deep down inside that Prime Tyson would've destroyed your hero, so YOU shut the hell up!

supaduck
02-10-2006, 01:35 PM
shh, nobody even bother correcting this guy, just let him think Tyson would destroy Foreman. :rolleyes:

Dempsey 1919
02-10-2006, 01:43 PM
You're just an Ali nuthugger who knows deep down inside that Prime Tyson would've destroyed your hero, so YOU shut the hell up!

MUHAMMAD ALI IS NOT MICHAEL SPINKS!! ALI WOULD TAUNT HIM AND MAKE FUN OF HIS BIG ASS NOZE AND THEN MAKE FUN OF THE WAY HE TALKS, THEN HE WOULD BATTER HIS GLASS CHIN AND THEN KNOCK HIM OUT IN THE 7TH!! :D :D

Southpaw Stinger
02-10-2006, 01:46 PM
shh, nobody even bother correcting this guy, just let him think Tyson would destroy Foreman.

You're right, lets not give Tyson lovers the violent outbursts that they desire.

Prime Tyson
02-10-2006, 01:48 PM
shh, nobody even bother correcting this guy, just let him think Tyson would destroy Foreman. :rolleyes:

You're just mad because Tyson destroyed the fighter in your av. :rolleyes:

Prime Tyson
02-10-2006, 01:50 PM
MUHAMMAD ALI IS NOT MICHAEL SPINKS!! ALI WOULD TAUNT HIM AND MAKE FUN OF HIS BIG ASS NOZE AND THEN MAKE FUN OF THE WAY HE TALKS, THEN HE WOULD BATTER HIS GLASS CHIN AND THEN KNOCK HIM OUT IN THE 7TH!! :D :D

Somebody just recently sent me a private message saying you were by far the most bias poster on this site, so I'm wondering if that is true or not before I engaged you in conversation.

Southpaw Stinger
02-10-2006, 01:51 PM
You're just mad because Tyson destroyed the fighter in your av.

I know, Tyson destroyed an old man....... Lennox Lewis owned Tyson.

Prime Tyson
02-10-2006, 01:54 PM
I know, Tyson destroyed an old man.

"My body has never felt better" (so says Larry Holmes just before entering the ring against Tyson)

Obviously by his own admission Holmes thought he was as good as he ever was, and still considered himself to be in his prime when he fought Mike.

Dempsey 1919
02-10-2006, 01:58 PM
Somebody just recently sent me a private message saying you were by far the most bias poster on this site, so I'm wondering if that is true or not before I engaged you in conversation.

well, obviously i'm not as biased as you are! and was it blockhead, cause if it was, then you shouldn't listen to anything he says about me.

Prime Tyson
02-10-2006, 02:01 PM
well, obviously i'm not as biased as you are! and was it blockhead, cause if it was, then you shouldn't listen to anything he says about me.

No it wasn't blockhead.

Dempsey 1919
02-10-2006, 02:06 PM
No it wasn't blockhead.

who was it?

Prime Tyson
02-10-2006, 02:09 PM
who was it?

I think if the poster who said it wanted to have his name public he would've taken a different route rather than telling me via a PRIVATE message.

Dempsey 1919
02-10-2006, 02:12 PM
I think if the poster who said it wanted to have his name public he would've taken a different route rather than telling me via a PRIVATE message.

well, i'm not really biased IMO. i mean i never say that it was impossible for ali to lose or anything like that.

Prime Tyson
02-10-2006, 02:18 PM
well, i'm not really biased IMO. i mean i never say that it was impossible for ali to lose or anything like that.

My first impression tells me that you seem like a pretty good guy even if you are, according to some, by far the most bias poster on the site.

Got to have out favourites, right?

Dempsey 1919
02-10-2006, 03:08 PM
My first impression tells me that you seem like a pretty good guy even if you are, according to some, by far the most bias poster on the site.

Got to have out favourites, right?

they only think that because i rate some of ali's opponents higher than they do, but if it wasn't for ali, then foreman, frazier, and liston all would be recognized as greater fighters than most people think they are today.

Southpaw Stinger
02-10-2006, 03:41 PM
"My body has never felt better" (so says Larry Holmes just before entering the ring against Tyson)

Isn't that what all old champs say before they get into the ring?

Dempsey 1919
02-10-2006, 03:44 PM
Isn't that what all old champs say before they get into the ring?

yeah, for real! to try to fool themselves!

RockyMarcianofan00
02-10-2006, 04:18 PM
well, i'm not really biased IMO. i mean i never say that it was impossible for ali to lose or anything like that.
yea you never have said it, sometimes you imply it but its obvious that you know Ali can be beat and that he was beat

Joe Frazier

another fighter- Chuck Norris :p (he never beat ali but prime Norris could do anything)
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Southpaw Stinger
02-10-2006, 04:19 PM
another fighter- Chuck Norris (he never beat ali but prime Norris could do anything)

:confused: your starting to worry me now.

RockyMarcianofan00
02-10-2006, 04:26 PM
:confused: your starting to worry me now.
:p

Chuck Norris is like a super human lol
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Heckler
02-11-2006, 04:36 AM
What did Muhammad Ali say before he stepped in the ring with Holmes 'im in the best condition of my life' FIND ME ONE sportswriter or reputable boxing historian that will say that Larry Holmes was in his prime.

Southpaw Stinger
02-11-2006, 09:40 AM
'im in the best condition of my life'

I want to know why all old champs say that. Ali was getting his butt kicked in sparring. He was old, slow, overweight, had parkinsons and was taking eldopa (which sapped his strength) to make him stop shaking.

As he struggled into the ring a mere shadow of his former self, for some reason he said that he was in the best condition of his career. It was clear that he could barely hold up his hands.

Dempsey 1919
02-11-2006, 02:10 PM
I want to know why all old champs say that. Ali was getting his butt kicked in sparring. He was old, slow, overweight, had parkinsons and was taking eldopa (which sapped his strength) to make him stop shaking.

As he struggled into the ring a mere shadow of his former self, for some reason he said that he was in the best condition of his career. It was clear that he could barely hold up his hands.

maybe fighters say that to give themselves confidence and to give them a false hope.

Southpaw Stinger
02-11-2006, 02:21 PM
Or to scare their opponent. But who knows?

Kid Achilles
02-11-2006, 03:37 PM
No one wants to believe they are less a man than they were fifteen or twenty years ago. It's possible that Ali truly felt like he was in the best condition of his life. The mind is a mystifying thing.

Two Fisted Piston
02-11-2006, 08:28 PM
I could take em no doubt :boxing:

RockyMarcianofan00
02-12-2006, 12:36 AM
What did Muhammad Ali say before he stepped in the ring with Holmes 'im in the best condition of my life' FIND ME ONE sportswriter or reputable boxing historian that will say that Larry Holmes was in his prime.
Any Idiot could tell he wasn't in his best condition, he wasn't even in his best condition when he fought foreman, he was in better condition but not the best

come on man
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Heckler
02-12-2006, 01:02 AM
Any Idiot could tell he wasn't in his best condition, he wasn't even in his best condition when he fought foreman, he was in better condition but not the best

come on man

I know he wasn't in his best condition, i was using Ali's situation as an example of how fighters falsely proclaim their ability in their older years.

RockyMarcianofan00
02-12-2006, 01:58 AM
I know he wasn't in his best condition, i was using Ali's situation as an example of how fighters falsely proclaim their ability in their older years.
o
ok thought you were saying that a not prime Holmes could beat a Prime ali and i was like :eek:

but ok
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