Roy Jones vs Ray Robinson, who wins and why?

Sugar Ray Robinson would win, simply because he would be the better boxer. Roy Jones jr might be a little bit faster, but in every other department, Robinson would have him beat.

Sugar Ray Robinson by tko10.

Jones was good, robinson was great. Robinson wins. Probably by kayo.

Robinson beats Jones.

Robinson's just too damn slick.

at 160 robinson at 175 roy

p4p, maybe jones.

P4P Jones wins? If Jones wins its mostly because of his size and strength advantage. In a P4P fight, Jones is brutally KO'ed.

No no no, there would definitely NOT be a KO in this fight.

Robinson wins a ud in a boring fight.

Robinson,either an easy decision or k'o. No contest really,at any weight. Don't forget Sugar Ray darn near was the light-heavy champ.

DooWop Ernie

Roy Jones ..Faster hands,quicker on his feet ,harder puncher,ray Robinson ..Better chin,Better pure boxing, I think Jones can stay away and win off points as long as he stays off the ropes he will be okay . But if he ever gets hurt at all in the fight it will be over Robinson was just to good of a finisher to let anyone off . Then again if Lamotta can put Robinson threw the ropes i have to think that Jones can hit hard enough to ko robinson also . It's a toss up but i'll go with Jones in a points win .

Dont forget Roy WAS the light heavyweight champ

robinson because he didnt need to use steroids to win

robinson because he didnt need to use steroids to win

LMAO. I think Robinson outboxes him but it would be a tough fight because Ray never saw a style close to Roys.

Roy used steroids to gain weight. Not to win.

Roy by UD. He is the best ever P4P.

Roy used steroids to gain weight. Not to win.

Roy by UD. He is the best ever P4P.

Steroids can also help with endurance but I don't think he was using at 160.

Steroids can also help with endurance but I don't think he was using at 160.

I think everything about Roy as a fighter was natural.

I think everything about Roy as a fighter was natural.

Agreed. He could beat just about anyone you can name at 160 except maybe Robinson. I love the way he RJ took out Tate at 160. Wish he would have stayed there longer and took on McClellan. Now that would have been a fight.

Ill go for Roy, purely on his power, Sugar fought Willie Pep at feather-weight in amateurs, punch for punch Roy hits more powerfuly than anybody from light-middle through super-middle .Remember Ray never fought anybody anything like a Roy, especialy at middle. I tink Roy can really hurt him, i dont think Ray was a natural middle he went there for more money nd challenge.

Roy used steroids to gain weight. Not to win.

.
but using steroids is cheating
roy jones however good he was(and yes he was awesome)was a cheat.

Well I'd pick Ray over Roy.

And any steroid use is cheating even if it's only to get bigger.

but using steroids is cheating
roy jones however good he was(and yes he was awesome)was a cheat.

He couldn't possibly DOMINATE all these divisions without using Steroids. I dont believe he used as much as the haters are saying. Point is, Roy only used it later in his career when he needed it to become big(He was a natural midd/lighthw weight) and its not cheating, because steroids didn't do anything for him to win fights. His reflexes, power and speed did.

nah steroids give a physical boost no matter if it's strength, endurance or speed, and i'd say he's a cheater. not that he hadn't already proved to be the p4p number 1 by the time he used them, and not that he won any fight he couldnt have without them, besides maybe since he couldn't have made the weight without em.

He couldn't possibly DOMINATE all these divisions without using Steroids. I dont believe he used as much as the haters are saying. Point is, Roy only used it later in his career when he needed it to become big(He was a natural midd/lighthw weight) and its not cheating, because steroids didn't do anything for him to win fights. His reflexes, power and speed did.
if he used steroids to get big enough to fight at heavy weight than he cant call himself a true h/w champ
steroids is cheating.......CHEATING.......... CHEATING

there is no excuseing it.......no hiding from it.....no denying it.......rjj was a cheat


"He couldn't possibly DOMINATE all these divisions without using Steroids"
well in that case the steroids did help him win fights.....because if he didt use them he wouldnt have won

Steroids helped him to become BIGGER. Not to win fights. Get that trough your concrete skull. Because Roy most likely would have been able to gain weight without steroids, just not as FAST. Jones had genetics. Imagine how he would have looked if he lifted weights his whole life, not only for the Ruiz fight. If you dont understand this, then you dont know what cheating is.

All in all, im tired of talking about Jones' steroids use. As it would not be a factor in this matchup :) . Roy outworks SRR.

Steroids helped him to become BIGGER. Not to win fights. Get that trough your concrete skull. Because Roy most likely would have been able to gain weight without steroids, just not as FAST. Jones had genetics. Imagine how he would have looked if he lifted weights his whole life, not only for the Ruiz fight. If you dont understand this, then you dont know what cheating is.

HAHA
its you who dosent understand what cheating is........
you are defending a man who took steroids to give himself something he otherwise wouldnt have had.......you need to take your"concrete skull" out of the sand and take a breath of reality.........ROY JONES TOOK STEROIDS,TAKING STEROIDS IS AGAINST THE RULES....ROY JONES KNEW THIS......HE IS A CHEAT

THE END

Roy wins at 160, he's way too big for Robinson.. P4P Roy loses.

Ray Robinson because he is arguably the greatest ever boxer p4p. He was better than RJJ in all departments quite easily. But they are both different weights, so RJJ would be the stronger fighter.

I would still go with Robinson tho :)

HAHA
its you who dosent understand what cheating is........
you are defending a man who took steroids to give himself something he otherwise wouldnt have had.......you need to take your"concrete skull" out of the sand and take a breath of reality.........ROY JONES TOOK STEROIDS,TAKING STEROIDS IS AGAINST THE RULES....ROY JONES KNEW THIS......HE IS A CHEAT

THE END

When did Roy ever test positive for Steroids. Now I know Bonds or McGuire didn't either so I don't have much of an argument on second thought. Reguardless he wasn't a cheat at his lower weight maybe only Heavy.

HAHA
its you who dosent understand what cheating is........
you are defending a man who took steroids to give himself something he otherwise wouldnt have had.......you need to take your"concrete skull" out of the sand and take a breath of reality.........ROY JONES TOOK STEROIDS,TAKING STEROIDS IS AGAINST THE RULES....ROY JONES KNEW THIS......HE IS A CHEAT

THE END

Even if so, you dont have any proof, you imbecile.
Did you ask Roy to piss in a bucket so you could test he used steroids? You're too young to talk about boxing cause you listen to the media and retarded haters.
Please show me proof of Roys ''massive steroids use his whole career'' ok? :) dumbass kids these days.

Even if so, you dont have any proof, you imbecile.
Did you ask Roy to piss in a bucket so you could test he used steroids? You're too young to talk about boxing cause you listen to the media and retarded haters.
Please show me proof of Roys ''massive steroids use his whole career'' ok? :) dumbass kids these days.
1.who said anything about massive steroid use his whole career?
2.you have no idea how old i am
3.there is no need to be calling me names
4.roy got caught using steroids and you know its true...so why are we even arguing about it?

When did Roy ever test positive for Steroids. Now I know Bonds or McGuire didn't either so I don't have much of an argument on second thought. Reguardless he wasn't a cheat at his lower weight maybe only Heavy.
it was in may 200o against hall
hall also tested posative

im not claiming that he wasnt awesome or that he used anymore that that 1 time.....
my point is that he cheated in preperation for that fight in 2000..he admited he used steroids

whatever anybody says he cheated ,as did hall

1.who said anything about massive steroid use his whole career?
2.you have no idea how old i am
3.there is no need to be calling me names
4.roy got caught using steroids and you know its true...so why are we even arguing about it?

Give me some proof of Roy admitting he was on juice against Hall. Why we're arguing? Because you came out with a retarded post like ''ROY WAS A CHEAT!!! SRR would wins cause he didnt need roids to win''. Keep believeing the rumours and media. But dont say bullshit like Roy couldnt win without juice. Why are you not on Tommy Morrisons case? He used roids aswell. Answer that please.

Give me some proof of Roy admitting he was on juice against Hall. Why we're arguing? Because you came out with a retarded post like ''ROY WAS A CHEAT!!! SRR would wins cause he didnt need roids to win''. Keep believeing the rumours and media. But dont say bullshit like Roy couldnt win without juice. Why are you not on Tommy Morrisons case? He used roids aswell. Answer that please.

dude everybody knows knows roy tested positive,seems you do too seeing as you just said that morrison used them aswell

why am i not on morrisons case?
well this is a thread about roy not morrison.

you are taking this way to seriously....and to heart.
im not making a personal attack on jones....im just stating that he used steroids....and as far as im concerned thats cheating.
im out of this thread now.......i dont come here to get into fights .

@ 160 I'd take Roy on points

P4P Roy would get chin checked and KO'd

Robinson by UD!

Roy in his prime would beat robinson I bellieve because he had greater foot speed and manuveaablity but it would be a decision win because Ray was hard to hit.

Sugar Ray at his peak wins this one.

Roy was found to have used but Hall was also found to be on roids at the time .>>>>>>>http://www.blackathlete.com/Boxing/060904.shtml

Be4 I start he is my top 3 fighters Robinson, Greb, Duran. Not Playing Fav's Here. Roy at 160 was a KO artist & If He stayed at 160 maybe the best ever at 160 he handed Hopkins a loss with a bad hand Still today Hops is in the mix at 175. He beat toney easilt at 168 when tony was P4P the best. Roy was the fastest human boxer ever. Ray vs Roy at 147 if Roy was smaller don't U's think Roy wood be even Faster? If Roy Retired after the ruiz fight no one could of touch em as far as being no 1. That YO-YO Diet mess em up real bad. The Roy that beat hopkins eazy beats Ray.

I could see Jones winning at Middleweight, Robinson wasn't as good as Middleweight. His record in Championship fights as Middleweight was 8-6.

I see jones winning at 160, 168 and 175. Jones was stronger, faster, hit harder, better reflexes and had better stamina. p4p, its close to because jones had 1 punch power at middleweight just like robinson had 1 punch power at welterweight. Jones was able to hold his own more at higher weights than robinson was when he went up in weight. The opposition the two fought were however different. But jones would of defeated all the fighteres at middleweight that robinson did and didnt. Ive seen over 50 robinson fights. I own over 60. He is definently great at everything. But jones is even greater in some of those categories. Robinson has the better chin , and possibly better feet, but jones can run low 10's in the 100m. So thast questionable as well. Its a tough matchup if you really think about it and arent biased towards either one. I like them both, tremendously. They both specimans. I dont hate rj like many do so its very easy for me to compare them based on video and facts. Some guys here have never seen robinson fight, let alone early roy jones. So they say robinson based on what everyone else is saying and thats not logical to me.

Robinson's just too damn slick.

So you've never seen him fight?

Roy was much slicker and better defensively. Sugar was an offensive machine, with good defense when he wanted to show it, but the big part of his game revolved around his offense, particularly his combos and knowing where to place punches.

Roy was bigger, faster and slicker than Robinson. While Robinson is easily the greater fighter, at MW he is smaller and not as fit for the weight as Roy, and Roy has the style to give him a lot of trouble.

A 147 Ray Robinson is the one who's damn near unbeatable, at 160 he was beatable by quite a few, Jones being one of them.

No no no, there would definitely NOT be a KO in this fight.

Robinson wins a ud in a boring fight.
What on earth could make this fight boring? You know what, I don't even wanna hear your explanation, just kill yourself.

That's the first time I've actually responded to someone like that, but a post like that has no redeeming points.

id have to say jones... only because... his style was so incredibly unique especially to a fighter WAYYY back in the day... i dont think hed know what to do with a style like roy... theres no way robinson was more athletic than a prime roy... of course i seem biased based on my fav. fighter... i just think roys new age style would confuse sugar ray... doesnt take anything away from ray tho

Robinson,either an easy decision or k'o. No contest really,at any weight. Don't forget Sugar Ray darn near was the light-heavy champ.

DooWop Ernie

Jones was the Light Heavyweight champ, and a dominant one at that, as well as the Heavyweight champ. So much for your retarded theory.

id have to say jones... only because... his style was so incredibly unique especially to a fighter WAYYY back in the day... i dont think hed know what to do with a style like roy... theres no way robinson was more athletic than a prime roy... of course i seem biased based on my fav. fighter... i just think roys new age style would confuse sugar ray... doesnt take anything away from ray tho
Nothing to do with new age, nobody from any era has had a style like Roy, it just has to do with Roy himself being unique. Nothing to do with eras. Roy would've beaten Ray at 160 for many reasons.

Robinson by late knockout until he finally catches up to Roy. prime Roy had a weak chin but was too quick and elusive for someone to expose it and Robinson, being equally fast or maybe even faster (debatable) will catch Roy and get him out sooner or later. just like the second fight between him and Randy Turpin, Turpins style was causing Ray fits so he had to turn puncher in there and get him out, i see the same result with Jones. I see Ray coming from behind to score a knockout around the 11th round with Roy well ahead on points.

Prime roy had a very very very solid chin, he took many flush shots and ate them like they were nothing. It was when his age caught up to him and his body couldnt take the demand he pu ton it. Thats when his chin became questionable. And its more of a mental thing than a chinny thing. Robinson was damn unbeatable at 147, but jones was unbeatable at 160. I'll always favor the bigger guy, with even faster hands and harder punchers.

to be honest... i dont think roy has a bad chin


i think roy got CAUGHT with two devastating punches that would have KOd anyone at that weight

the one with tarver came from a left bomb hook... while joness right hand was up... his hand was blocking the view to see the punch comeing in.. and clipped his chin perfectly... if ANYONE got hit like that .. it would be lights out...

and with glen johnson.. his wrist buckled on the side of roys head... this also would have knocked ANYONE out....

i dont think it was because his chin is weak... just that he got hit with two bombs....

jones tarver II.... roy won the first round easily... he just got caught thats all.. he can take a punch...

i watched him take a punch from ruiz... say what u want about ruiz... but he knocked down holyfield and weight 40 lbs more.... ROy took it... 1st round... he took 3 flush right hands... stumbled a second, and came back with his own

i think i make a decent point here

to be honest... i dont think roy has a bad chin


i think roy got CAUGHT with two devastating punches that would have KOd anyone at that weight

the one with tarver came from a left bomb hook... while joness right hand was up... his hand was blocking the view to see the punch comeing in.. and clipped his chin perfectly... if ANYONE got hit like that .. it would be lights out...

and with glen johnson.. his wrist buckled on the side of roys head... this also would have knocked ANYONE out....

i dont think it was because his chin is weak... just that he got hit with two bombs....

jones tarver II.... roy won the first round easily... he just got caught thats all.. he can take a punch...

i watched him take a punch from ruiz... say what u want about ruiz... but he knocked down holyfield and weight 40 lbs more.... ROy took it... 1st round... he took 3 flush right hands... stumbled a second, and came back with his own

i think i make a decent point here

Tarver was not a power puncher and neither was Johnson. what other elite fighters has Johnson and Tarver knocked out?

Tarver was not a power puncher and neither was Johnson. what other elite fighters has Johnson and Tarver knocked out?

it doesnt matter.. the right punch on the right spot can take anyone out... and thats what happened

it doesnt matter.. the right punch on the right spot can take anyone out... and thats what happened

see! if Roy was the only name that them 2 knocked out, then that has to say something about Roys beard. those 2 were never known has power punchers.

i believe it was roys lack of reflexes at that point, that allowed them to land those 2 punches.... which is why they never landed those on other fighters...

that still doesnt take anything away from the two punches he got... they were both massive punches, no matter who they were from.. and if anyone else had gotten hit like that in the same spot... they would have also went down.. that tarver shot clipped his chin perfectly... thats like the magic button... as well as the side of the ear...from johnson.... u gata see where im coming from?

obviously this is all opinionated.. but i got the fights on dvd.. and thats my take :)

i believe it was roys lack of reflexes at that point, that allowed them to land those 2 punches.... which is why they never landed those on other fighters...

that still doesnt take anything away from the two punches he got... they were both massive punches, no matter who they were from.. and if anyone else had gotten hit like that in the same spot... they would have also went down.. that tarver shot clipped his chin perfectly... thats like the magic button... as well as the side of the ear...from johnson.... u gata see where im coming from?

obviously this is all opinionated.. but i got the fights on dvd.. and thats my take :)

LOL! do you really think Hopkins would have went down from either of those shots? Hopkins dominated them both but actually stopped Johnson when Johnson was in his prime. He just whooped Tarver for 12 rounds and dominated. He took what they had to offer and thier shots didn't even make him blink. it was Roys lack of reflexes which means that he has always had a weak chin but nobody was able to catch it when he was in his prime. Thats why i picked Robinson because Ray was equally as fast or maybe even faster. he would tag that chin at some point. but this IS opinionated so neither of us is wrong.

but this IS opinionated so neither of us is wrong.

sold........

RJJ Wins at Middleweight.

LOL! do you really think Hopkins would have went down from either of those shots? Hopkins dominated them both but actually stopped Johnson when Johnson was in his prime. He just whooped Tarver for 12 rounds and dominated. He took what they had to offer and thier shots didn't even make him blink. it was Roys lack of reflexes which means that he has always had a weak chin but nobody was able to catch it when he was in his prime. Thats why i picked Robinson because Ray was equally as fast or maybe even faster. he would tag that chin at some point. but this IS opinionated so neither of us is wrong.

Ray was nowhere even CLOSE to as fast as Roy, I don't see how the argument could even be made. Leonard was also faster than Robinson. Watch Robinson fight and tell me he was faster than Roy.

Roy had a mediocre chin at LHW, but a better one at MW, and had a better punch resistance and reflexes to avoid full shots as well, at least a lot better than the past prime version that Johnson and Tarver beat.

preach pete!!!!!!!!!

Ray was nowhere even CLOSE to as fast as Roy, I don't see how the argument could even be made. Leonard was also faster than Robinson. Watch Robinson fight and tell me he was faster than Roy.

Roy had a mediocre chin at LHW, but a better one at MW, and had a better punch resistance and reflexes to avoid full shots as well, at least a lot better than the past prime version that Johnson and Tarver beat.

Pete, go look back at Ray Robinsons fights. he was too fast for those video camera's back then. do you realize the kind of combinations that Ray Robinson put together? the man knocked dudes out going back so come on, i personally think that Ray was quicker but its debatable. Roy didn't even have pure boxing skill. prime Roy was more athletic if anything. Robinson has all of the advantages besides size IMO. and Roy DIDN"T have a good chin at MW. he was never hit clean so how would we know? and Ray Leonard was no where near as quick as Ray Robinson was and thats for sure. Ray has all of the advantages over Leonard that you could possibly think of.

Roy DIDN"T have a good chin at MW. he was never hit clean so how would we know?

I think you just :owned: yourself

I think you just :owned: yourself

how? i dont get it

first you said roy didnt have a good chin at mw.... then u said he was never hit clean so how would we know....

how would u know he didnt have a good chin at mw if you yourself said he didnt get hit enough to know whether he had a good chin or not...

you like completely contradicted yourself

Pete, go look back at Ray Robinsons fights. he was too fast for those video camera's back then. I saw him perfectly in those vids. I'll post a comparison. If you tell me after watching both of these vids/fights that Robinson is faster, than you're simply LYING to try to prove an argument. And also, the cameras back then had less frames, whereas nowadays they have 24 per second, back in the day they had less, so fighters looked more explosive/herky jerky. Even so, Robinson clearly is not as fast.

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compared to

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do you realize the kind of combinations that Ray Robinson put together? the man knocked dudes out going back so come on. What on earth does that have to do with speed?

Roy didn't even have pure boxing skill. prime Roy was more athletic if anything. Robinson has all of the advantages besides size IMO. And athleticism, as you just said. And speed, as I expect you to admit upon coming to your senses instead of trying to win an argument.

and Roy DIDN"T have a good chin at MW. he was never hit clean so how would we know? As the guy above me said, you just owned yourself, and this is kind of how your argument has been going as a whole.

and Ray Leonard was no where near as quick as Ray Robinson was and thats for sure. Ray has all of the advantages over Leonard that you could possibly think of.Leonard was faster, Robinson was more powerful. Leonard had better movement and faster combos, Robinsons's were better placed and more effective. Robinson has some edges, Leonard has some edges. Again, if you can honestly watch Leonard throw his hands and pretend that Ray threw quicker combos then you are simply going on reputation and not film. Robinson was better slightly, but not faster. He doesn't have to be considered better than everyone at everything just because he's Ray Robinson. Think for yourself.

first you said roy didnt have a good chin at mw.... then u said he was never hit clean so how would we know....

how would u know he didnt have a good chin at mw if you yourself said he didnt get hit enough to know whether he had a good chin or not...

you like completely contradicted yourselfLMAO! I was going to make a post on that as well, but you beat me to it.

I saw him perfectly in those vids. I'll post a comparison. If you tell me after watching both of these vids/fights that Robinson is faster, than you're simply LYING to try to prove an argument. And also, the cameras back then had less frames, whereas nowadays they have 24 per second, back in the day they had less, so fighters looked more explosive/herky jerky. Even so, Robinson clearly is not as fast.

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compared to

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What on earth does that have to do with speed?

And athleticism, as you just said. And speed, as I expect you to admit upon coming to your senses instead of trying to win an argument.

As the guy above me said, you just owned yourself, and this is kind of how your argument has been going as a whole.

Leonard was faster, Robinson was more powerful. Leonard had better movement and faster combos, Robinsons's were better placed and more effective. Robinson has some edges, Leonard has some edges. Again, if you can honestly watch Leonard throw his hands and pretend that Ray threw quicker combos then you are simply going on reputation and not film. Robinson was better slightly, but not faster. He doesn't have to be considered better than everyone at everything just because he's Ray Robinson. Think for yourself.


thats a beautiful response you win by UD12

and the pazienze fight... in my opinion... is roys at his absolute physical peak.. in one round pazienza scored 0 punches.. a first in compubox history... he was truly superman in this fight

first you said roy didnt have a good chin at mw.... then u said he was never hit clean so how would we know....

how would u know he didnt have a good chin at mw if you yourself said he didnt get hit enough to know whether he had a good chin or not...

you like completely contradicted yourself

thats becuase he has always had a weak chin, it just got exposed at light heavyweight.. you cant grow into a weak chin. If toney would have trained properly and came in shape, he would have exposed it.

thats becuase he has always had a weak chin, it just got exposed at light heavyweight.. you cant grow into a weak chin. If toney would have trained properly and came in shape, he would have exposed it.

What evidence do you have that Toney didn't train properly? Because he said he didn't? That doesn't just sound like an excuse from a sore loser to you? He got completely outclassed and shut out, I doubt a bit more preparation would have completely turned the fight around for him. If it was close than you may have an argument, but there was nothing in the fight AT ALL to suggest Toney would've ever done better, that's once again just you trying to prove an aimless point.

first you said roy didnt have a good chin at mw.... then u said he was never hit clean so how would we know....

how would u know he didnt have a good chin at mw if you yourself said he didnt get hit enough to know whether he had a good chin or not...

you like completely contradicted yourself

I saw him perfectly in those vids. I'll post a comparison. If you tell me after watching both of these vids/fights that Robinson is faster, than you're simply LYING to try to prove an argument. And also, the cameras back then had less frames, whereas nowadays they have 24 per second, back in the day they had less, so fighters looked more explosive/herky jerky. Even so, Robinson clearly is not as fast.

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compared to

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What on earth does that have to do with speed?

And athleticism, as you just said. And speed, as I expect you to admit upon coming to your senses instead of trying to win an argument.

As the guy above me said, you just owned yourself, and this is kind of how your argument has been going as a whole.

Leonard was faster, Robinson was more powerful. Leonard had better movement and faster combos, Robinsons's were better placed and more effective. Robinson has some edges, Leonard has some edges. Again, if you can honestly watch Leonard throw his hands and pretend that Ray threw quicker combos then you are simply going on reputation and not film. Robinson was better slightly, but not faster. He doesn't have to be considered better than everyone at everything just because he's Ray Robinson. Think for yourself.

how can you post a video of Roy vs Vinny Paz and Robinson vs Lomotta? Lomatta actually gave Robinson a fight and was the bigger man and a hall of famer, Paz was a blown up lightweight that was Taylor made for Jones so this is an unfair comparison. go get some welterweight footage of Ray Robinson and then we could work with something, but this will not prove anything.

What evidence do you have that Toney didn't train properly? Because he said he didn't? That doesn't just sound like an excuse from a sore loser to you? He got completely outclassed and shut out, I doubt a bit more preparation would have completely turned the fight around for him. If it was close than you may have an argument, but there was nothing in the fight AT ALL to suggest Toney would've ever done better, that's once again just you trying to prove an aimless point.

i again completely agree.. not cuz i like roy.. and not cuz i have a problem with u at all slick... but what he said just makes sense... i dont think on toneys best day he could beat roy.. styles make fights... and someone as mobile as roy can outbox someone as flatfooted as toney

how can you post a video of Roy vs Vinny Paz and Robinson vs Lomotta? Lomatta actually gave Robinson a fight and was the bigger man and a hall of famer, Paz was a blown up lightweight that was Taylor made for Jones so this is an unfair comparison. go get some welterweight footage of Ray Robinson and then we could work with something, but this will not prove anything.

it doesnt matter the competition here... the only debate we were having was speed... these two videos plainly show the two differences in speed....

again... speed is the only debate we were having.. so these videos are absolutely useable in this debate

it doesnt matter the competition here... the only debate we were having was speed... these two videos plainly show the two differences in speed....

again... speed is the only debate we were having.. so these videos are absolutely useable in this debateBingo, also Vinny Paz was much faster than LaMotta, so if anything that post was in Robinson's favor, as he should've looked faster in comparison to his opponent.

very good point..... i felt the same way when i first watched the paz fight... paz isnt real slow... so for roy too look that more reedickyalussly faster is even more... well.... reedickyaluss

What evidence do you have that Toney didn't train properly? Because he said he didn't? That doesn't just sound like an excuse from a sore loser to you? He got completely outclassed and shut out, I doubt a bit more preparation would have completely turned the fight around for him. If it was close than you may have an argument, but there was nothing in the fight AT ALL to suggest Toney would've ever done better, that's once again just you trying to prove an aimless point.

i will provide the link to the story that Toney was weight drained if you want me too? and where have you been? did you watch the fight? they had a huge segment on HBO. Toney had a gut and weighed in at about 185 and had to be hooked up to ivs before the fight. there were parts in that fight where Toney showed what he could do but he was just too stiff and winded to do it. at some points, he would counter Jones and stunn him but he let up because he was gased out. i wouldn't make nothing up to prove a point. tell me yourself, did the Toney that fought Iran Barkley look like he was in the same shape when he fought Jones? no he was not.

go get some welterweight footage of Ray Robinson and then we could work with something, but this will not prove anything.
Robinson at WW has very limited footage, and the footage he does have at the weight is of poor quality. Are you claiming to have seen this limited grainy footage? From what I've heard of it, it's hard to tel what is going on and there really isn't much you get out of it, so I doubt that will prove he was faster than Roy.

Also, what does it matter how fast he was at WW? This matchup is at MW, where you said Ray was faster. He clearly isn't.

it doesnt matter the competition here... the only debate we were having was speed... these two videos plainly show the two differences in speed....

again... speed is the only debate we were having.. so these videos are absolutely useable in this debate

Bingo, also Vinny Paz was much faster than LaMotta, so if anything that post was in Robinson's favor, as he should've looked faster in comparison to his opponent.

nope, not at all. the fighters have to fight the same level of competition in order to have a fair debate. Paz was smaller than Roy and Laotta and was a lot bigger than Robinson.

i will provide the link to the story that Toney was weight drained if you want me too? and where have you been? did you watch the fight? they had a huge segment on HBO. Toney had a gut and weighed in at about 185 and had to be hooked up to ivs before the fight. there were parts in that fight where Toney showed what he could do but he was just too stiff and winded to do it. at some points, he would counter Jones and stunn him but he let up because he was gased out. i wouldn't make nothing up to prove a point. tell me yourself, did the Toney that fought Iran Barkley look like he was in the same shape when he fought Jones? no he was not.At no point in the fight did he show his stuff and counter Jones effectively, he got completely owned for 12 rounds, no redeeming facot for him in the fight.

And again, Toney's style was always flat-footed, and against a super fast in and out pot-shotter/combo thrower, a flat footed counterpuncher is about the worst thing to be, as you don't have the speed to avoid shots or land your own in time.

It's possible Toney was not at his best, but neither was Corrales against Floyd, doesn't change the fact that Floyd would've always won, it's called style matchups. Toney never once showed in 12 rounds that he had any chance of beating Jones were he at his best.

i will provide the link to the story that Toney was weight drained if you want me too? and where have you been? did you watch the fight? they had a huge segment on HBO. Toney had a gut and weighed in at about 185 and had to be hooked up to ivs before the fight. there were parts in that fight where Toney showed what he could do but he was just too stiff and winded to do it. at some points, he would counter Jones and stunn him but he let up because he was gased out. i wouldn't make nothing up to prove a point. tell me yourself, did the Toney that fought Iran Barkley look like he was in the same shape when he fought Jones? no he was not.

if your gonna pull the weight drained card... you better damn well admit roy was weight drained for tarver...

nope, not at all. the fighters have to fight the same level of competition in order to have a fair debate. Paz was smaller than Roy and Laotta and was a lot bigger than Robinson.
We're not debating who was better right now, we're debating who was faster, so our argument stands. What you said has no bearing on this. We're arguing speed.

nope, not at all. the fighters have to fight the same level of competition in order to have a fair debate. Paz was smaller than Roy and Laotta and was a lot bigger than Robinson.

the only debate is SPEED... it doesnt matter if the target is a ****ing punching bag....

look at the hand speed difference.. the foot speed difference... robinson had a quick jab but he stayed flat footed... i didnt see roy stay flat footed once... and he unloaded jabs like a god damn M4 carbine.....

it doesnt matter the competition.... hand/foot speed... period.

the only debate is SPEED... it doesnt matter if the target is a ****ing punching bag....

look at the hand speed difference.. the foot speed difference... robinson had a quick jab but he stayed flat footed... i didnt see roy stay flat footed once... and he unloaded jabs like a god damn M4 carbine.....

it doesnt matter the competition.... hand speed... period.

example, i can spar a bum in the street and look like Mosley, but if i fought a real fighter in the ring, i wouldn't look as quick and talented. Paz had no buisness being in the ring with Roy.....period

so your saying your hands would slow down fighting a better fighter?

hand speed is god damn hand speed... i can look at SRR video and SEE his hand speed

i can see the paz fight and SEE roys hand speed.. and one is faster than the other.... period. thats it. end of discussion.

and like i said before... if ur gonna use the weight drain card for toney... u better admit it for roy vs tarver

did Jones look that quick against Hopkins or Toney? no, why? because they were elite middleweights that actually did something. Roy fought cautious against fighters that were actually good.

did Jones look that quick against Hopkins or Toney? no, why? because they were elite middleweights that actually did something. Roy fought cautious against fighters that were actually good.

he didnt look fast? i cant remember the last fight he didnt look fast... maybe prince badi...


he DEFInitely was fast against toney? chicken move? u remember that? i know toney sure as hell remembers that... and toney was a super middleweight.. not a mw when he fought roy


roy can physically move his hands faster in his prime than sugar ray... thats it.. doesnt matter who hes fighting where its at... what time period.. whatever... he was just... faster...

he didnt look fast? i cant remember the last fight he didnt look fast... maybe prince badi...


he DEFInitely was fast against toney? chicken move? u remember that? i know toney sure as hell remembers that... and toney was a super middleweight.. not a mw when he fought roy


roy can physically move his hands faster in his prime than sugar ray... thats it.. doesnt matter who hes fighting where its at... what time period.. whatever... he was just... faster...

Roy was always fast but his speed didn't look like it did in the Paz fight.

i think his speed in the paz fight... had anything to do with paz... i think that was roys absolute physical peak... ive never seen him move consistently and effectively in any of his fights like he did in this one... i think he was just feeling absolute peak in this fight... could of been anyone in there... this was roys absolute peak to me... i got his whole career on dvd as well.. to me this was his absolute fastest

We're not debating who was better right now, we're debating who was faster, so our argument stands. What you said has no bearing on this. We're arguing speed.

if you think that Roy was quicker based on unfair match ups, fine but you wont get far by doing that. in what fight did Roy look as quick as he did in the PAZ fight?

if you think that Roy was quicker based on unfair match ups, fine but you wont get far by doing that. in what fight did Roy look as quick as he did in the PAZ fight?

why arent you understanding this.... forget the god damn competition... im not even looking at the other guy in the ring... IM ONLY LOOKING AT ROY... it doesnt matter WHO hes fighting... dont look at anything but roy... his movements, his hands... are faster... than what ray was doing... in his fights

did Jones look that quick against Hopkins or Toney? no, why? because they were elite middleweights that actually did something. Roy fought cautious against fighters that were actually good.
Roy looked possibly even faster against Toney. That was one of the best performances I've ever seen.

So yes, to answer your question, he did look just as fast against an elite fighter in Toney. So much for that point.

ok i gata leave. sweet pete cover for me lol

if you think that Roy was quicker based on unfair match ups, fine but you wont get far by doing that. in what fight did Roy look as quick as he did in the PAZ fight?

Toney and Reggie Johnson are two, one of them being against an elite in his prime. Re-watch the Toney fight if you must, that was his most impressive performance.

why arent you understanding this.... forget the god damn competition... im not even looking at the other guy in the ring... IM ONLY LOOKING AT ROY... it doesnt matter WHO hes fighting... dont look at anything but roy... his movements, his hands... are faster... than what ray was doing... in his fights

NO! you just dont get it, Roy looked like that against a smaller man because the smaller man had no buisness being in the ring with him and was slow. Jake Lomatta was putting pressure on Ray and making him fight, if Pete went and got some REAL footage of Robinson at his best, you would see what im talking about.

NO! you just dont get it, Roy looked like that against a smaller man because the smaller man had no buisness being in the ring with him and was slow. Jake Lomatta was putting pressure on Ray and making him fight, if Pete went and got some REAL footage of Robinson at his best, you would see what im talking about.
How was that not footage of Robinson at his best? And I think you're the first person to ever call Vinny Paz slow. He was MUCH faster than plodder LaMotta.

Post some Robinson at his best then. You're the one who claims to have seen Robinson on film faster than Roy, show me the footage. Here's Ray against even worse competition than Paz, in his prime, and he still isn't as fast as Roy.

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Toney and Reggie Johnson are two, one of them being against an elite in his prime. Re-watch the Toney fight if you must, that was his most impressive performance.

please, Roy didn't look no where near as quick as he did in those fights as he did with PAZ. in the Paz fight, Roy looked like superman with lighting fast hands, his hands were quick with Toney but no where near as quick as in the Paz fight.

please, Roy didn't look no where near as quick as he did in those fights as he did with PAZ. in the Paz fight, Roy looked like superman with lighting fast hands, his hands were quick with Toney but no where near as quick as in the Paz fight.
That isn't true at all, you're distorting things to make them mold your point of view. Re-watch the Toney fight, he was so fast Toney couldn't counter or even begin to counter him, both with hands and feet.

And I doubt you've even seen him vs Reggie Johnson. Bottom line is, Ray Robinson didn't look as fast in ANY of his footage as Jones did in any of the footage I've mentioned, and that is what we're arguing here.

How was that not footage of Robinson at his best? And I think you're the first person to ever call Vinny Paz slow. He was MUCH faster than plodder LaMotta.

Post some Robinson at his best then. You're the one who claims to have seen Robinson on film faster than Roy, show me the footage. Here's Ray against even worse competition than Paz, in his prime, and he still isn't as fast as Roy.

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so you are telling me that a blown up Paz is fast? not really. since when have you seen Roy shoot 4 or 5 combinations with his left hand in a row and knock the dude out with the last shot? hes actually showing flahes of his prime in that video. i am going to try to find a different video but, on a panel dicussion on ESPN, they showed Robinson at his best and he was hands down the fastest fighter i have seen.

so you are telling me that a blown up Paz is fast? not really. since when have you seen Roy shoot 4 or 5 combinations with his left hand in a row and knock the dude out with the last shot? hes actually showing flahes of his prime in that video. i am going to try to find a different video but, on a panel dicussion on ESPN, they showed Robinson at his best and he was hands down the fastest fighter i have seen.
I think your memory is playing tricks on you. He was never in any footage(also, this coming from people who have seen him live, as I used to chat with a guy who had) faster than even Sugar Ray Leonard. Few people would even argue that, and you're the ONLY person who's ever argued that he was even close to as fast as Jones, who is widely recognized as possibly the fastest fighter of all time.

You're arguing a lost cause, one I don't even think you fully believe in. I just believe you don't want to concede defeat in this argument, which is why it's continuing after me basically proving over and over that Jones was faster.

I think your memory is playing tricks on you. He was never in any footage(also, this coming from people who have seen him live, as I used to chat with a guy who had) faster than even Sugar Ray Leonard. Few people would even argue that, and you're the ONLY person who's ever argued that he was even close to as fast as Jones, who is widely recognized as possibly the fastest fighter of all time.

You're arguing a lost cause, one I don't even think you fully believe in. I just believe you don't want to concede defeat in this argument, which is why it's continuing after me basically proving over and over that Jones was faster.

its actually saved to my DVR. (the footage)and yes i know that Robinson is quicker. Roy may be quicker by doing certain things like moving, but Ray has the all around better handspeed. and im not defeated in this arguement, being defeated is knowing that you are wrong or feeling like you have been proven wrong, i have always and still know that Robinson is faster than Jones.

its actually saved to my DVR. (the footage)and yes i know that Robinson is quicker. Roy may be quicker by doing certain things like moving, but Ray has the all around better handspeed. and im not defeated in this arguement, being defeatded is knowing that you are wrong or feeling like you have been proven wrong, i have always and still know that Robinson is faster than Jones.

In that case, John Ruiz is faster than Robinson, and there's no way you can prove me wrong. I have PROVEN you wrong twice with footage, and you continue to twist stuff around by basically saying "nuh uh, Robinson is faster because I say so". So I will say that Ruiz is faster than Robinson.

Jones is definently quicker, no doubt.

This is retarded, Jones was way overrated, the biggest moment in his career was wanting to fight Mike Tyson, he was borderline great, not quite their. Robinson may have been the greatest fighter of all time, not to mention one of the most devastating punchers that ever lived, as everyone knows, he had stop you DEAD power. Killed Doyle with one punch :(

Robinson by ko

This is retarded, Jones was way overrated, the biggest moment in his career was wanting to fight Mike Tyson, he was borderline great, not quite their. Robinson may have been the greatest fighter of all time, not to mention one of the most devastating punchers that ever lived, as everyone knows, he had stop you DEAD power. Killed Doyle with one punch :(OK, Mike Tyson was way overrated, Pep was one of the greatest of all time, does that mean Pep beats Tyson?

No, this is not a P4P matchup, this is both fighters fighting at MW, Jones clearly being the bigger, better physical specimen, and Robinson being past his prime from his WW days.