My respected fellow scribe Frank Lotierzo wrote an article explaining his opinions on whether or not Lennox Lewis should come out of retirement to give Vitali Klitschko his much sought after rematch. As much as I respect Mr. Lotierzo , I think I’ll have to check mate him on this one. I would agree that with time, Lewis’ legacy will have the “Holmes effect” and grow over the years. I will disagree about possible negative results if he were to lose the rematch with Vitali. Lennox Lewis provokes deep emotions from fans and detractors alike. You either love him or hate him. No matter what transpires in a Klitschko rematch, the so-called “haters” (I despise that term) will always be quick to bark out the names Hasim Rahman and Oliver McCall. His fans will always hold firm with the “not focused” and “out of shape” excuses. [details (http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&id=539)]

Dave, Dave you were doing so well until you said that the cut was caused with clean punches. The cut(s) were/was caused by a grazing shot, and Lewis exploited the cut throughout the fight making it worse and creating others while fighting a one eyed opponent. Overall though, its a much better article then Frank's.

well i agreed in the other thread that lennox should not do it... someone posted that lennox was going to get just around $6 million out of this fight so i agreed. but now that it is confirmed that they are getting at least $50 million makes this another story. if he goes for it, fine, settle the score. and as dave said, at least a good fight that mayu very well propell the heavyweight division back up oncemore.

Dave, Dave you were doing so well until you said that the cut was caused with clean punches. The cut(s) were/was caused by a grazing shot, and Lewis exploited the cut throughout the fight making it worse and creating others while fighting a one eyed opponent. Overall though, its a much better article then Frank's.

my thoughts EXACTLY
:)
too bad it's too early for me to give you more karma :p

I'm not exactly following your thinking? Vitali's cuts were caused by punches, never disputed in several conversations I have had with both brothers. Vitali said he could see fine from his eye and he could have fought on so your "Lewis fighting a one eyed opponent" doesnt hold much weight. And if Vitali could not see then it give much more justification for stopping the fight. This is a fight, not a card game, the plan is to bust up your opponent as bad as you can to win......not create a cut and then ignore it so the other guy can get better.

as I would do the same thing.
if there's a cut, expose it and win!
simple boxing tactic...
I seriously doubt that most boxers can remember exactly what and when etc about cuts.

It's really quite irrelevant at this point, I just want to see for myself if the cut was from his glove, or from tape etc. even if it's a lost cause, that's just how my brain works.. searching and supporting truth.

if VK's eye was cut that damn deep from a solid connection, then he is in serious danger of being cut anytime anyday and he lost that fight due to his cutable skin. The only cut i've personally seen as deep or more would be when his bro WK got cut by TOS' incidental headbutt.

if the cut was questionable, all the more reason for their rematch..

I'm not exactly following your thinking? Vitali's cuts were caused by punches, never disputed in several conversations I have had with both brothers. Vitali said he could see fine from his eye and he could have fought on so your "Lewis fighting a one eyed opponent" doesnt hold much weight. And if Vitali could not see then it give much more justification for stopping the fight. This is a fight, not a card game, the plan is to bust up your opponent as bad as you can to win......not create a cut and then ignore it so the other guy can get better.

You really need to rewatch the beginning of the third round. How does fighting a one eyed opponent not hold much weight? Vitali had one good eye from the third round on. And as far as I know I've never argued with the stoppage.

I'm not exactly following your thinking? Vitali's cuts were caused by punches, never disputed in several conversations I have had with both brothers. Vitali said he could see fine from his eye and he could have fought on so your "Lewis fighting a one eyed opponent" doesnt hold much weight. And if Vitali could not see then it give much more justification for stopping the fight. This is a fight, not a card game, the plan is to bust up your opponent as bad as you can to win......not create a cut and then ignore it so the other guy can get better.

Wow. that makes so much sense its scary! And to think that some imply that if Vitali had cut Lennox that he wouldnt have "worked the cut"?? A very much executed boxing tatic? It kills me how some try and make him out to be a dirty fighter for doing what EVERY single fighter on the planet does! :rolleyes:

Wow. that makes so much sense its scary! And to think that some imply that if Vitali had cut Lennox that he wouldnt have "worked the cut"?? A very much executed boxing tatic? It kills me how some try and make him out to be a dirty fighter for doing what EVERY single fighter on the planet does! :rolleyes:

No one is saying that.

maybe she could help us and point out who is saying that...

Dave, Dave you were doing so well until you said that the cut was caused with clean punches. The cut(s) were/was caused by a grazing shot, and Lewis exploited the cut throughout the fight making it worse and creating others while fighting a one eyed opponent. Overall though, its a much better article then Frank's.

Gee, its right there in black and white! He "exploited" the cut..like it was a crime and something that nobody but Lennox does. Cant dispute your own words Neuraxis

You really need to rewatch the beginning of the third round. How does fighting a one eyed opponent not hold much weight? Vitali had one good eye from the third round on. And as far as I know I've never argued with the stoppage.

What does an injury caused by a legal blow have to do with anything? Should Lennox pitty pat punch him so no cuts get caused or should he of put a patch on his eye to even the odds?Stop the fight for Vitali since he got hurt?

Fighters get cuts every day and hurt eyes, hands, etc every day and fight on. It's a poor man's excuse to use an injury sustained in the ring legally for the other guy's performance.

And I will state again, Vitali personally told me that his vision was not bothered and he was able to see fine from the eye.

What does an injury caused by a legal blow have to do with anything? Should Lennox pitty pat punch him so no cuts get caused or should he of put a patch on his eye to even the odds?Stop the fight for Vitali since he got hurt?

Fighters get cuts every day and hurt eyes, hands, etc every day and fight on. It's a poor man's excuse to use an injury sustained in the ring legally for the other guy's performance.

And I will state again, Vitali personally told me that his vision was not bothered and he was able to see fine from the eye.

RICK, while youre busy here, that Gwenstafani is making an ass of themselves at the boards expense..begging you to ban them! You might wanna check it out ;)

IF they do rematch.. i hope one of them gets knocked down and out.. on their back for like 30 seconds...
a demolition.

IF they do rematch.. i hope one of them gets knocked down and out.. on their back for like 30 seconds...
a demolition.

lol..that would be Vitali! Sorry, couldnt resist :D

lol..that would be Vitali! Sorry, couldnt resist :D

if so, I would be the first to say that LL is definitely a TRUE champion of champions... no one has even knocked VK down, much less demolished him like that ...

if so, I would be the first to say that LL is definitely a TRUE champion of champions... no one has even knocked VK down, much less demolished him like that ...

Well, I'm not a Klitschko fan, but I will give him credit by saying that Lennox may be the ONLY one that could do it! Some posters may not like him and some even think that they cant like both Vitali and Lennox, but even they have to admit he is big and strong enough to do such a thing! ;)

a rematch would do wonders for this division. Either Lennox proves his greatness, or Vitali confirms he is legit. I hope it happens. Well then again, if Lewis wins, we are back to square one with the heavyweights.....Go VK! :rolleyes:

Gee, its right there in black and white! He "exploited" the cut..like it was a crime and something that nobody but Lennox does. Cant dispute your own words Neuraxis

Nope sorry, you are talking about just one of the definitions of exploit. The one that myself and HBO are using is "to make productive use of."

What does an injury caused by a legal blow have to do with anything? Should Lennox pitty pat punch him so no cuts get caused or should he of put a patch on his eye to even the odds?Stop the fight for Vitali since he got hurt?

Fighters get cuts every day and hurt eyes, hands, etc every day and fight on. It's a poor man's excuse to use an injury sustained in the ring legally for the other guy's performance.

And I will state again, Vitali personally told me that his vision was not bothered and he was able to see fine from the eye.

No one is saying anything remotely close to your arguement in your first paragraph so I don't know why you insist on bringing it up in every one of your posts. If fighting out of one eye is not a good excuse for losing 2 out of 4 rounds, then I don't know what is. Vitali can say whatever he wants. If you remember he initially said that it was caused by headbutt. If I were you, I would be more cautious the next time I listened to Vitali, that is unless you agree with that statement as well.

Well, I'm not a Klitschko fan, but I will give him credit by saying that Lennox may be the ONLY one that could do it! Some posters may not like him and some even think that they cant like both Vitali and Lennox, but even they have to admit he is big and strong enough to do such a thing! ;)

yeah, one thing I've mentioned before though is that if VK's chin is really granite, then as long as LL doesn't cut him too bad, it would probably be a matter of time until VK connects solid enough to KO LL, dispite a ton of abuse he may take. LL is thought of as having a questionable chin... so even with size and power etc.. if it's not enough to conquer VK's chin or cause the ref to stop the fight, then inevitably, VK would sooner or later catch him and then LL's chin would have to withstand.. but this is all elementary..

No one is saying anything remotely close to your arguement in your first paragraph so I don't know why you insist on bringing it up in every one of your posts. If fighting out of one eye is not a good excuse for losing 2 out of 4 rounds, then I don't know what is. Vitali can say whatever he wants. If you remember he initially said that it was caused by headbutt. If I were you, I would be more cautious the next time I listened to Vitali, that is unless you agree with that statement as well.

Youre too much Neuraxis! I've had reason to accuse you of speaking for me in the past but now youre telling Reeno how to listen to someone talk?? Wonders never cease! :eek:

yeah, one thing I've mentioned before though is that if VK's chin is really granite, then as long as LL doesn't cut him too bad, it would probably be a matter of time until VK connects solid enough to KO LL, dispite a ton of abuse he may take. LL is thought of as having a questionable chin... so even with size and power etc.. if it's not enough to conquer VK's chin or cause the ref to stop the fight, then inevitably, VK would sooner or later catch him and then LL's chin would have to withstand.. but this is all elementary..

Well see, I'm not one of those that consider a couple of ko's a "questionable chin". I've yet to see solid proof of that..anybody that connects just right with the right amount of power can knock somebody out. Just ask the 'great' Roy Jones!

Well see, I'm not one of those that consider a couple of ko's a "questionable chin". I've yet to see solid proof of that..anybody that connects just right with the right amount of power can knock somebody out. Just ask the 'great' Roy Jones!

yeah i think it was said.. he can take shots, unless they are right on the button... the chin spot :p

yeah i think it was said.. he can take shots, unless they are right on the button... the chin spot :p

and the same can be said about anybody, truth be told. If he had been ko'ed more than that then I'd buy the 'weak' chin theory..but since he wasnt that is all it is in my eyes..a theory!

just going off of what the commentators have said before about LL... not that they're always right.

i just hope the fight happens..

im sorry i had to interrupt your debate people, but lennox is a better tactician than vitali... so fight or no fight, lennox is going to win...

If Lennox were reading this forum now, he would be terribly dazed and confused. One thread says "Do it", another says "Don't Do It". :rolleyes:

He could be scratching his head at this very moment for all we know! Or maybe keeping tab and see which will have more postings - then makes his decision from there! :p

Lennox should defentily come back and fight Klitscko. Then again, i don`t think he should, it was the right time to retire. However, the money might be a good offer so, yeah go for it, one more fight. Then again, can Lennox get up for it at 39 and be in decent shape, enough to defeat Klitscko...maybe, maybe not, go for it Lennox. But don`t make a big mistake of fighting past your prime!

im sorry i had to interrupt your debate people, but lennox is a better tactician than vitali... so fight or no fight, lennox is going to win...

Being a better tactician is all it takes to win a bout? You must not know too much about boxing. A superior tactician with a glass jaw will loose to any of the top 25 HWs today, given the right punch. You cannot discout things like ring intellegence, toughness, stamina, heart, courage, balance, craftiness, etc.

. However, the money might be a good offer so, yeah go for it, one more fight.


come to think of it.. I'd love to let VK or LL KO me for even 1 million , much less tens of millions :D

Yeah but no one would pay 50 bucks to see it so the money wouldn`t be genratted to pay you the purse. If you wanna go about this plan i`d suggest turn pro, have about 25 fights without a loss and beat fighters like Samuel Peter, Audley Harrison and a James Toney and i bet you get your wish. Follow your dreams, you`ll fight Klit one day....

considering I'm already 27, only 150 pounds, etc...
the only way I can be effective is if my hands aren't gloved ;)


I think I'll stick to the dream world... :cool:

im sorry i had to interrupt your debate people, but lennox is a better tactician than vitali... so fight or no fight, lennox is going to win...

Sure he will.

NO matter how you put it,.... . Out of shape, not focused, too old, no money in the fight, no buts in the seats, lost his lucky rabbits foot. It doesn't matter to me.

I will always remember Lewis as the champion that disrespected the spirit of the heavyweight championship by giving up the IBF and WBA belts to avoid Byrd and Ruiz. Ultimately escaping into retirement like a coward rather than answering the obvious questions he left in the ring with Vitali.

IMO - It's Lewis that needs the rematch

NO matter how you put it,.... . Out of shape, not focused, too old, no money in the fight, no buts in the seats, lost his lucky rabbits foot. It doesn't matter to me.

I will always remember Lewis as the champion that disrespected the spirit of the heavyweight championship by giving up the IBF and WBA belts to avoid Byrd and Ruiz. Ultimately escaping into retirement like a coward rather than answering the obvious questions he left in the ring with Vitali.

IMO - It's Lewis that needs the rematch

oh please do have a word with yourself. He still won vs Vitali like it or not, rules are rules and that uppercut at the end of the sixth that nearly dropped Vitali was a telling sign the fight was on the turn, both men were shattered but Lewis was starting to get through.
How you can say a retired three time champion, universally accepted by those who know about boxing as a top ten all time heavy "needs" a rematch with Klitchko after two years retired is just pure and utter fan biased tosh.

As for you argument about Lennox not wanting to fight Byrd or Ruiz these were not commerically great fights for him at that stage in his career, the bigger money was the tyson match, what would you do fight Ruiz / Byrd for peanuts or take on Tyson in the fight of the year? Hmmm tough one huh.

If also you are so righteous about such matters then surely Vitali should be going after Byrd to avenge his injury loss? Funny you dont mention that.

Lennox wont come out of retirement he just gets the buzz when he is at the big fights, he has a young child and family to think of now, and last I saw of him was weighing at around 22 stone.

Thats a lot of hard work in th gym. Lennox doesnt need to come out of retirement he has his health, his fortune and his legacy (which as rightly stated above will improve al la holmes over time).

Theres good fights out there for Vitali he should concentrate on proving he is the best out there which until he has avenged his loss to Byrd he cant really say. Injury or no injury.

For my four penneth he is the best out there at the moment, by some way but a loss is a loss and he should face the man who beat him to secure his place at the top of the tree and forget about Lennox Lewis who is just on a wind up. ;)

oh please do have a word with yourself. He still won vs Vitali like it or not, rules are rules and that uppercut at the end of the sixth that nearly dropped Vitali was a telling sign the fight was on the turn, both men were shattered but Lewis was starting to get through.
How you can say a retired three time champion, universally accepted by those who know about boxing as a top ten all time heavy "needs" a rematch with Klitchko after two years retired is just pure and utter fan biased tosh.

As for you argument about Lennox not wanting to fight Byrd or Ruiz these were not commerically great fights for him at that stage in his career, the bigger money was the tyson match, what would you do fight Ruiz / Byrd for peanuts or take on Tyson in the fight of the year? Hmmm tough one huh.

If also you are so righteous about such matters then surely Vitali should be going after Byrd to avenge his injury loss? Funny you dont mention that.

Lennox wont come out of retirement he just gets the buzz when he is at the big fights, he has a young child and family to think of now, and last I saw of him was weighing at around 22 stone.

Thats a lot of hard work in th gym. Lennox doesnt need to come out of retirement he has his health, his fortune and his legacy (which as rightly stated above will improve al la holmes over time).

Theres good fights out there for Vitali he should concentrate on proving he is the best out there which until he has avenged his loss to Byrd he cant really say. Injury or no injury.

For my four penneth he is the best out there at the moment, by some way but a loss is a loss and he should face the man who beat him to secure his place at the top of the tree and forget about Lennox Lewis who is just on a wind up. ;)

I agree..Lewis has all the money he could ever want or need, and a legacy that speaks for itself..he hardly needs Vitali or anyone for that matter. I think Vitali should be thankful that he dogged a true ass whipping, quit crying over this and move on!

precisley its vitali's time now he should concentrate on what is in front of him.

ON the flip side Lewis should stop goading Vitali, they should both act like the champs they are and give each other respect.

precisley its vitali's time now he should concentrate on what is in front of him.

ON the flip side Lewis should stop goading Vitali, they should both act like the champs they are and give each other respect.

Yeah, I suppose :D Just kidding..Lennox should focus on his new family! ;) He has nothing to prove.
You know, you did pose a great question..why doesnt Vitali challenge Byrd again? If all his fans are right and it was a shoulder injury that made him quit, then why not redeem himself? He could take care of that and try for Byrds IBF belt all at the same time

Yeah, I suppose :D Just kidding..Lennox should focus on his new family! ;)

I agree and he should stop embarassing himself with his fight picks.

Yeah, I suppose :D Just kidding..Lennox should focus on his new family! ;) He has nothing to prove.
You know, you did pose a great question..why doesnt Vitali challenge Byrd again? If all his fans are right and it was a shoulder injury that made him quit, then why not redeem himself? He could take care of that and try for Byrds IBF belt all at the same time

From what I've read, He did try to fight Byrd, but DK wanted options and the negotaions were unfruitful... whether that's true or not, who knows.. I know VK is not afraid to fight and beat any of the current belt holders, but he focuses on what is direcly in front of him right this second, not beyond it, not in the future.. just what is next, and what is next right now is a bout with manditory challenger (however Rahman got there puzzles some, but he's there)..

I agree and he should stop embarassing himself with his fight picks.

I have yet to see him embarrass himself. However, he could take a few tips from Vitali on just how to do that..with his behavior after fights he loses and all..he'd make a great teacher

I have yet to see him embarrass himself. However, he could take a few tips from Vitali on just how to do that..with his behavior after fights he loses and all..he'd make a great teacher

So what do you call initially picking Williams to beat Vitali, and then after the fight is over say that Vitali's dominance over Williams is exactly why the fight should never have happened?