View Full Version : When we were Kings(Foreman on the bag :D)


XionComrade
01-20-2006, 08:42 PM
I got When we were Kings for Christmas, and watched Foreman on the punching bag!(Unfreakingbeleivable!!!)
Since Foreman is not the hardest hitting boxer ever, and Shavers and Cooney are, is it more awesome when they pound the bag?

Has anyone seen Cooney or Shavers pound a punching bag? Or have a clip of it?

hellfire508
01-20-2006, 08:45 PM
Cooney? No way.

Foreman and Shavers in my opinion are the hardest hitters. Apparently - Foreman hit the heavybag like nobody else. So I am assuming that included Shavers. I've never seen Shavers do it, but eye witnesses say Foreman did it the best. Marciano was amazing on it too.

XionComrade
01-20-2006, 08:50 PM
I did see Cooney(In Legendary Nights) Hitting something really weird, like a brick wall or something(It was a Huge, White, wall thing).

I have heard that they showed Shavers on the punching bag on the Discovery channel, where they said that his power was the equivelant of a 32mm cannon on a battleship!

But either way Cooney is either #2, or #1 hardest hitter, just look what happened to Norton!

supaduck
01-21-2006, 06:19 AM
I've seen that film too (it's awesome).

Foreman hitting the heavy bag was just like "holy ****!!", my brother said "oh my ****ing christ" when he saw it.

Pugnacious_Z
01-21-2006, 07:15 AM
ye i got teh clip of foreman hittin the bag on my com, i got it from the same documentary youse are talkin about, its a 150lb bag. ive also got rocky on a 300lb bag and ive very short clips of tyson on a 150lb bag

Yaman
01-21-2006, 08:44 AM
I have seen the Foreman lookalike in the Ali film hit the bag.

supaduck
01-21-2006, 05:18 PM
James Toney or something plays Foreman or Frazier in that... I think

XionComrade
01-22-2006, 07:40 PM
James Toney or something plays Foreman or Frazier in that... I think

I think it was Frazier, the Foreman playing that was just to big, and punches like a *****.

Brassangel
01-22-2006, 11:26 PM
Well, how many Foreman look-a-likes are there who can hit like him? Slim chance to find one to fit that criteria.

When Ali retired he said that Foreman was the most powerful man he fought. (Then of course, he said that Patterson was the most skilled, Liston was the one he was most afraid of, and Frazier was the best) While Shavers may have hit harder in pounds per square inch, Foreman was a more skilled fighter, and his punches were likely more effective.

And yes, he hit the bag like nobody's business.

RockyMarcianofan00
01-23-2006, 12:25 AM
yea Rocky hit aa huge homemade 300lb heavy bag which is ridiculously heavy
btw Marciano actually hit as hard or harder then Foreman (not talking p4p)crazy ya know :eek:
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fabulous
01-23-2006, 05:59 AM
Foreman was hitting heavybag like beginner: wild punches to stationary target. Basically it was example how you shouldn't work on heavybag. I really think that trainers ****ed up Foreman's technique. He learned some skills but his punches were always wide and he was too vulnarble for left hook and overhand right, Lyle showed it well.

Pugnacious_Z
01-23-2006, 06:06 AM
rocky did not punch harder then foreman mate, get ur head out of ur ass, he was 40 pounds less

Southpaw Stinger
01-23-2006, 11:08 AM
Foreman hit way harder than Marciano. Marciano was a small shrimp compared to Foreman.

Southpaw Stinger
01-23-2006, 11:10 AM
Lyle showed it well.

And as I've said before, Foreman was a changed fighter after he was defeated by Ali. The Foreman who beat Lyle was different from the Foreman who beat Frazier.

Kid Achilles
01-23-2006, 12:34 PM
Hey Pug, can you upload that clip of Marciano on the 300 lb. bag?

Verstyle
01-23-2006, 03:27 PM
i've seen some clips of foreman on the bag. jus imagine if he put his body into those punches. hmmmmmmm :rolleyes:

Southpaw Stinger
01-23-2006, 03:32 PM
i've seen some clips of foreman on the bag. jus imagine if he put his body into those punches. hmmmmmmm


He'd be locked away for murder. Apparently George destroyed a heavy bag during training once.

Verstyle
01-23-2006, 03:35 PM
He'd be locked away for murder. Apparently George destroyed a heavy bag during training once.


thats ****in some power destroying it? i only have take credit for ****in up the chains on the heavybags at our gym. but destroying it aahaha.i've put dents in some though. but thats all :(

Oasis_Lad
01-23-2006, 03:35 PM
did u see jackass when johhny knoxville fought butterbean and got knocked out imagine they got foreman for that episode johnnys head would have been took of

leow
01-23-2006, 04:29 PM
so many ppl speaks about marciano hitting the 300lbs bag but there is still no vid can some one please care to share?

supaduck
01-23-2006, 05:28 PM
Marciano hit hard, but as hard as Foreman?

HAHhaHahAHahHAhaHA!

Southpaw Stinger
01-23-2006, 05:36 PM
Obviously not. Foreman is the hardest hitter of all!

manfredojr
01-23-2006, 08:13 PM
so many ppl speaks about marciano hitting the 300lbs bag but there is still no vid can some one please care to share?
http://media.putfile.com/Rocky-Marciano-Highlights-by-SakurabaFan

You'll see the highlight in here.

Brockton Lip
01-23-2006, 09:07 PM
Foreman hit way harder than Marciano. Marciano was a small shrimp compared to Foreman.

Nobody hit way harder than Marciano. Its possible that Foreman hit harder (and even that has been argued many times) but way harder? No way.

Kid Achilles
01-24-2006, 02:36 AM
Dick Saddler worked with both men and swore that Marciano hit harder and would have beaten Foreman on his best day. His words, not mine.

Dempsey 1919
01-24-2006, 10:53 AM
Dick Saddler worked with both men and swore that Marciano hit harder and would have beaten Foreman on his best day. His words, not mine.

moore said that yvone durelle hit harder than marciano, so does that mean that yvonne durele hit harder than george foreman?

Southpaw Stinger
01-24-2006, 11:11 AM
moore said that yvone durelle hit harder than marciano, so does that mean that yvonne durele hit harder than george foreman?

True. Marciano struggled to KO some light heavy's so I'm not that impressed. He was strong for his size but not when you compare him to the big heavy hitters like Foreman or Shavers.

LondonRingRules
01-24-2006, 01:39 PM
============Dick Saddler worked with both men and swore that Marciano hit harder and would have beaten Foreman on his best day. His words, not mine.===========

** Saddler was also very good friends with Ali and his camp. It was Saddler who lobbied Ali 2 yrs for the Foreman fight by telling him exactly how to beat Foreman. Foreman also claims Saddler gave him a small bottle of funny water just before leaving the dressing room. I wouldn't trust Saddler a bit.

Heckler
01-24-2006, 05:51 PM
============Dick Saddler worked with both men and swore that Marciano hit harder and would have beaten Foreman on his best day. His words, not mine.===========

** Saddler was also very good friends with Ali and his camp. It was Saddler who lobbied Ali 2 yrs for the Foreman fight by telling him exactly how to beat Foreman. Foreman also claims Saddler gave him a small bottle of funny water just before leaving the dressing room. I wouldn't trust Saddler a bit.

Have you any evidence of this? because according to Ali and everyone who was associated with him at the time, he forumulated the plan IN THE RING. You see him trying to stick in move in the first couple of rounds, which proves ineffective due to his lack of footspeed. Stop talking bull****, funny water? Foreman lost because he didn't have the assets to take out Ali on the night, simple.

Yogi
01-24-2006, 06:31 PM
Have you any evidence of this? because according to Ali and everyone who was associated with him at the time, he forumulated the plan IN THE RING.

You can find plenty of quotes from those who watched Ali train for the Foreman fight and they'll tell you that a big part of Ali's training consisted of him practicing the rope-a-dope...

"At the end of the round Bossman(Jones) came and stood above us against the ropes. When time was called for the next round he turned and shuffled across the ring to where Ali was waiting for him on the ropes."

"Up in the ring Bossman was working rather perfunctorily, leaning on Ali, who was relaxed against the ropes and occasionally thumping his employer alongside his rib cage."

That's just a couple of quotes from George Plimpton, who was an eyewitness to much of Ali's preparation for the Foreman fight...Those were the easily to find, but I'm very sure there's other quotes/examples from both that book ('Shadow Box') and others.

RockyMarcianofan00
01-24-2006, 07:07 PM
Nobody hit way harder than Marciano. Its possible that Foreman hit harder (and even that has been argued many times) but way harder? No way.
agreed
Marciano had the hardest hit ever and i'm not talking p4p but the truth is that Foremans punch rivaled rocky's it wasn't harder, it may have been as hard but it wasn't harder

but people don't believe this because Rocky was small people need to relize that just cause rocky was small doesn't mean he can't hit harder ITS NOT ALL ABOUT HEIGHT AND WEIGHT
:boxing:

this is power
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LondonRingRules
01-24-2006, 07:24 PM
========Have you any evidence of this?========

** Dunno what you consider evidence. More than a dozen Ali bios out, most of which I've read. Sadler is mentioned in various roles and clearly was associated with Ali from his first pro days. It's out there in one of his bios in his own words or one of his camp.

Brassangel
01-25-2006, 12:01 AM
I will definitely concede that it's not all about height and weight; but between two well conditioned combatants with professional skills it does help. Rocky was quicker than Foreman which does add a lot to a person's power when used effectively (see: Bruch Lee). I guess we'll never know for sure.

P.S. Rocky has a beautiful right hand; textbook when he's posing.

Southpaw Stinger
01-25-2006, 11:40 AM
Hardest punchers;

1. Foreman
2. Shavers
3. Marciano


Ain't talking pound for pound. Foreman and shavers hit harder than Marciano. Very rarely did Marciano fight any good fighter over 200lbs. A lot of his ko's were against light heavyweight bums and washed up champions. It took him about 14 rounds to KO light heavy Archire Moore, and Archie was whupping Marciano up to that point.

Foreman KO'd great (and actual) heavyweights in early rounds. In over 4 years nobody could even get past the first few rounds with Foreman. Frazier and Norton were both dispatched within the first 2 rounds!

Foreman KO'd real heavyweights in rounds 1 -2 in most of his fights. Name anyone who went 15 rounds with Foreman in his prime? Even when he was an old man Foreman was knocking the young top contenders out and the champ in 1994.

Marciano was often lucky with punchers and took countless rounds of beatings in order to land one KO punch.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y124/Seluces/foremankillsfrazier.jpg

Foreman hit harder!

Dempsey 1919
01-25-2006, 11:48 AM
I will definitely concede that it's not all about height and weight; but between two well conditioned combatants with professional skills it does help. Rocky was quicker than Foreman which does add a lot to a person's power when used effectively (see: Bruch Lee). I guess we'll never know for sure.

P.S. Rocky has a beautiful right hand; textbook when he's posing.

haha rocky was quicker than foreman, but yet foreman obliterated frazier and norton, who both beat ali the fastest one of them all? to beat ali you have to be fast yourself, and the fact that foreman beat them makes him fast too. marciano struggled to ko moore, walcott the first time, charles both times and a washed up joe louis. so foreman is 10x as fast as marciano.

Southpaw Stinger
01-25-2006, 12:16 PM
haha rocky was quicker than foreman, but yet foreman obliterated frazier and norton, who both beat ali the fastest one of them all? to beat ali you have to be fast yourself, and the fact that foreman beat them makes him fast too. marciano struggled to ko moore, walcott the first time, charles both times and a washed up joe louis. so foreman is 10x as fast a marciano.


Well said Butterfly!

Dempsey 1919
01-25-2006, 12:28 PM
Well said Butterfly!

thank you, i do try!

Southpaw Stinger
01-25-2006, 01:03 PM
Rocky was quicker than Foreman

What a stupid statement. Have you seen how slow Rocky plodded around the ring? - thats how he earned the nickname of Rocky Sloppiano! Foreman was surprisingly speedy in his prime.

Yogi
01-25-2006, 04:28 PM
It took him about 14 rounds to KO light heavy Archire Moore, and Archie was whupping Marciano up to that point.

Stinger, before speaking about a fight, it's usually a good thing to watch it or atleast have read something about it from a reliable source...These comments here shows you've done neither.

Southpaw Stinger
01-25-2006, 04:44 PM
Stinger, before speaking about a fight, it's usually a good thing to watch it or atleast have read something about it from a reliable source...These comments here shows you've done neither.

of course you pick one lapse comment and ignore the rest. :rolleyes:

It took Marciano 9 rounds to ko a ligh heavyweight. Not very good for the apparent hardest ever hitter... And he was also being bashed about by walcott before a lucky near end ko. Went the full distance with Charles and had many close encouters with a ko himself.

The fact still stands that if you look at Marciano's record, his career is mainly made up of late round ko's of light heavyweights and not very good fighters. Watching his fights, his punchers are not as explosive or carry as much stopping power as Foremans.

Marciano was around in a bad era of heavyweights. Not his fault, but it says more for Foreman for destroying greater fighters in a shorter time in arguably the greatest era of heavyweights.

Yogi
01-25-2006, 05:03 PM
of course you pick one lapse comment and ignore the rest. :rolleyes:

Well yeah...the rest of your comments from that post focused on your opinions on Foreman being a harder puncher than Marciano, which is one that I'd agree with. I signalled out that Moore comment because it was a ignorant & entirely false comment to make, but it appears you may have gotten fightersd mixed up. But since you seem perplexed that I didn't pick out for, I'll bite...How do you quantify this statement;

"Marciano was often lucky with punchers and took countless rounds of beatings in order to land one KO punch."

The word "often" signifies that it happened frequent, or atleast more than once. So besides the first Walcott fight when he scored a one-punch KO in the 13th round...What other fight did that happen in?

Besides the brief clips from the Vingo fight, I've seen everything there is to see from Marciano's career and that was the only time he scored a KO while behind on the cards...I also have a bunch of info on some of his other fights that aren't available on film and again, I don't see it.

Southpaw Stinger
01-25-2006, 06:13 PM
Your like my old English teacher, the grammar Nazi that we all lived in fear of. But since you already agree that Foreman hit harder I'm not going to turn this into a debate of Marciano's fighting skills. Which I have mixed views on.

As a side note, your avatar looks uncannily like my old English teacher. Your not him by any chance are you? :eek:

Yogi
01-25-2006, 06:22 PM
As a side note, your avatar looks uncannily like my old English teacher. Your not him by any chance are you? :eek:

LOL!

Well, unless your teacher's name was Mr. Regis Rumblebelly, I doubt that the guy in my av would've been your teacher...Unless you worked as an apprentice in the Shadow Thieves Guild or somewhere similiar, and needed to learn the arts of stealth, lockpicking, etc.

RockyMarcianofan00
01-25-2006, 06:27 PM
of course you pick one lapse comment and ignore the rest. :rolleyes:

It took Marciano 9 rounds to ko a ligh heavyweight. Not very good for the apparent hardest ever hitter... And he was also being bashed about by walcott before a lucky near end ko. Went the full distance with Charles and had many close encouters with a ko himself.

The fact still stands that if you look at Marciano's record, his career is mainly made up of late round ko's of light heavyweights and not very good fighters. Watching his fights, his punchers are not as explosive or carry as much stopping power as Foremans.

Marciano was around in a bad era of heavyweights. Not his fault, but it says more for Foreman for destroying greater fighters in a shorter time in arguably the greatest era of heavyweights.

hey i don't really care what you say, in my opnion moore even though he was more middle-light heavy i look at him as a respectable heavyweight just because of his stamina and heart and power. I mean he did have over 120 KO's, he had the most and regardless as to what you think he was a good fighter and the fact that it took rocky 13 rounds has nothing to do with it cause he eventually caught him and got him, so wether it was with good fighters like walcott or charles, or Moore it may have taken him a while but he eventually caught up with him
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RockyMarcianofan00
01-25-2006, 06:30 PM
a washed up joe louis.

well i'll give you one thing, Joe Louis was not what he once was when he fought rocky but he wasn't exactly washed up, he was still a contender and had won fights before his bought with Rocky.

Now this i had heard somewhere before so correct me if i'm wrong please so i know but didn't Louis have a few more fights after his fight with rocky.

still would have been cool to see them both fighting in there prime
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Yogi
01-25-2006, 06:56 PM
well i'll give you one thing, Joe Louis was not what he once was when he fought rocky but he wasn't exactly washed up, he was still a contender and had won fights before his bought with Rocky.

Now this i had heard somewhere before so correct me if i'm wrong please so i know but didn't Louis have a few more fights after his fight with rocky.

still would have been cool to see them both fighting in there prime

Louis wasn't just a contender when he faced Marciano, he was ranked as the #2 contender, and before Walcott had upset Charles a few months earlier, Louis was listed as the #1 contender for the title (with the title loss Charles fell into the #1 spot over Louis, who had recently been very active with wins over lower ranked top ten contenders and fighters just recently ousted from the ratings). Also, if Charles had retained his title against Walcott on that occasion, Louis would have been the very next challenger to the title...Here's The Ring ratings from Aug of 1951, which was just after Walcott/Charles and just before Marciano/Louis;

Champ: Jersey Joe Walcott
1: Ezzard Charles
2: Joe Louis
3: Rocky Marciano
4: Clarence Henry
5: Roland LaStarza
6: Bob Baker
7: Rex Layne
8: Cesar Brion
9: Lee Savold
10: Hein Nuehaus

As you can see Louis was ranked higher than was Marciano going into that fight and was also the slight betting favourite to win. Louis also didn't fight all that bad against Marciano and with the exception of a few like New York Times' writer, Arthur Daley, the press gave Marciano tremendous credit for the KO win over Louis...That win has been downplayed 50+ years later by some, but during that time it was a HUGE win for Marciano.

RockyMarcianofan00
01-25-2006, 07:55 PM
yea i saw that in his bio movie (Rocky Marciano) when he beat louis he got the title shot, he didn't want to even face louis cause Louis was Marciano's favorite fighter/idol but in order to get the title shot he had to beat louis

Story goes after the fight Rocky was crying in Louis' Locker Room because he hurt his idol
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Brassangel
01-25-2006, 09:51 PM
Foreman was nicknamed "the mummy" by many, and you're going to tell me he was lightning? He beat Norton, and he beat Frazier. He was not quicker than they were, however. Norton and Frazier both beat Ali who was faster than either of them (even in 1973). But wait a minute...Ali stomped Foreman, so the fact that he beat Frazier and Norton doesn't mean anything.

A beats B, and B beats C...this does not mean that A will beat C. It also doesn't mean that one is faster than another. Rocky's attack was quick, not necessarily his footspeed. When his hands were unloading, they got to the target pretty quickly in most cases. Even so, Foreman likely hit harder than Marciano. As I said before, two well conditioned guys who rely on power; the difference will come down to size (in most cases, not all).

Heckler
01-25-2006, 10:54 PM
What i was referring to is any info regarding Dick Saddler showing Ali how to beat George. Ali often commented how George had never got beyond 4 rounds or whatever, i think the man was clever enough to come to the conclusion that George was a slugger with little stamina. And Funny water? no proof of that at all.

RockyMarcianofan00
01-26-2006, 12:02 AM
it was close though the fact is that Foreman either hit as hard as Marciano or Marciano hit harder either way Foreman didn't hit HARDER then Marciano
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Pugnacious_Z
01-26-2006, 01:28 AM
have any1 of u seen rocky hit a 300lb bag? if not ill post it

Southpaw Stinger
01-26-2006, 11:00 AM
please post it.

Kid Achilles
01-26-2006, 11:01 AM
Yes please do.

Southpaw Stinger
01-26-2006, 11:25 AM
Louis wasn't just a contender when he faced Marciano, he was ranked as the #2 contender, and before Walcott had upset Charles a few months earlier, Louis was listed as the #1 contender for the title (with the title loss Charles fell into the #1 spot over Louis, who had recently been very active with wins over lower ranked top ten contenders and fighters just recently ousted from the ratings). Also, if Charles had retained his title against Walcott on that occasion, Louis would have been the very next challenger to the title...Here's The Ring ratings from Aug of 1951, which was just after Walcott/Charles and just before Marciano/Louis;

Champ: Jersey Joe Walcott
1: Ezzard Charles
2: Joe Louis
3: Rocky Marciano
4: Clarence Henry
5: Roland LaStarza
6: Bob Baker
7: Rex Layne
8: Cesar Brion
9: Lee Savold
10: Hein Nuehaus


I think that shows how terrible the heavyweight division was then. Low weighting heavy's dominate the top and Marciano beating bums to get there. It's amazing that Louis managed to get that far despite the mess the division was in. Watching his fights of that time is depressing. He was a shadow of his former self, balding, bulky, slow. Louis was fighting because he needed the money, not because he wanted to.

He started out well against Marciano, but his stamina wasn't what it used to be and Marciano wore him down. Very upsetting seeing Louis in the ring in that condition. A prime Louis would beat Marciano. I consider Louis the second greatest heavy of all time, after Ali. And Foreman the hardest hitter of all time.

Yogi
01-26-2006, 01:11 PM
Low weighting heavy's dominate the top and Marciano beating bums to get there.

For an obvious George Foreman fan I'm not all that sure you'd want to make thses comments here, because Foreman's era was also filled with what we would call "small Heavyweights"...In the Dec 1972 of The Ring, which was just before Foreman won the title, you had guys like Joe Frazier, Jimmy Ellis, Floyd Patterson, Oscar Bonavena, Jurgin Blin, Jose Roman all finding spots in the top ten and no one would ever consider any of those fighters to be anything close to giants. As a matter of fact, both the Dec of '72 and the Aug of '51 rankings show that Foreman & Marciano were competing over top ten rankings with Heavyweights of nearly the same exact size (on avg. 6'1.5-205 vs. 6'1-199). That's not to say that Foreman & Marciano fought the same sized fighters...just from those two rankings, that's the size of the Heavyweights that were ranked at the time were very nearly the same.

Also, as a Foreman fan I certainly wouldn't be making the claim of "Marciano beating bums to get there", because Foreman beat who again before challenging for the title?

I'll easily take Marciano's pre-title winning competition over Foreman's, no doubt about it, because I can only confirm ONE single top ten ranked contender that Foreman beat on his way to the title (that being 10th ranked Gregorio Peralta in Feb of '70). George Chuvalo might have been ranked when Foreman beat him, but I can't confirm it...Ah, I'll give Big George that one just to be kind, but only so the mere two contnders that Foreman beat compares better with the five top ten ranked contenders that Marciano beat prior to winning the title (LaStarza, Layne, Louis, Matthews, and Savold).

P.S. In regards to the rest of your post about Louis' high all-time ranking and favouring him to beat Marciano at his best/prime...yeah, I pretty much agree with that.

Southpaw16
01-26-2006, 01:34 PM
James Toney or something plays Foreman or Frazier in that... I think

Toney played Frazier, Charles Shufford plays Foreman.

Dempsey 1919
01-26-2006, 01:50 PM
Foreman was nicknamed "the mummy" by many, and you're going to tell me he was lightning? He beat Norton, and he beat Frazier. He was not quicker than they were, however. Norton and Frazier both beat Ali who was faster than either of them (even in 1973). But wait a minute...Ali stomped Foreman, so the fact that he beat Frazier and Norton doesn't mean anything.

A beats B, and B beats C...this does not mean that A will beat C. It also doesn't mean that one is faster than another. Rocky's attack was quick, not necessarily his footspeed. When his hands were unloading, they got to the target pretty quickly in most cases. Even so, Foreman likely hit harder than Marciano. As I said before, two well conditioned guys who rely on power; the difference will come down to size (in most cases, not all).

ali gave him that name because he looked like that when he and ali fought that one time. he didn't look that slow when he fought everyone before that. marciano was out classed by most of his opponents he fought, but he managed to knock them out, which is the only reason why he won many of his fights in the first place. ali said that foreman was one of the quickest men on his feet he ever fought. foreman had probably the best jab in the 70s out of everyone, a great combination of speed and strength. before fighting ali, many thought that foreman was probably the best hw anyone had ever seen. jack dempsey and joe louis said that george foreman was the best hw they ever saw. nobody said that about marciano. all they said is that he hit hard, and he had good stamina and that's it. so think before you post. i enjoy most of your posts, but you are apparently starting to slip.

Yogi
01-26-2006, 04:05 PM
marciano was out classed by most of his opponents he fought, but he managed to knock them out, which is the only reason why he won many of his fights in the first place.

Care to elaborate on that "Marciano was outclassed by most of his opponents" statement and give some examples of when that was the case, Butterfly?

Southpaw Stinger
01-26-2006, 04:19 PM
Vs Walcott 1951. Marciano down in the 1st round and spends most of the fight absorbing punishment. Walcott would have clearly won on points if it had went the distance but Marciano managed to land suzie Q to knock out Walcott in the 13th. His right hand saved the fight for him.

Yogi
01-26-2006, 04:31 PM
Vs Walcott 1951. Marciano down in the 1st round and spends most of the fight absorbing punishment. Walcott would have clearly won on points if it had went the distance but Marciano managed to land suzie Q to knock out Walcott in the 13th. His right hand saved the fight for him.

That's the one obvious example you'll find (and I was thinking about putting "besides Walcott I" in my previopus post), but is there any other ones, because I certainly didn't see or even read any?

*shrugs*

And even I don't think Walcott had the fight in the bag when the KO occured...Wasn't the scoring at the time around 7-5, 7-5, and 7-4-1 or something like that (with three of those rounds being fought by a blind Marciano)? I need to check to make sure, but if that was the case, it wouldn't have been impossible for Marciano to pull out the draw or something, especially considering that Walcott was very noticably the more exhausted fighter at the end of the 12th.

Yogi
01-26-2006, 04:35 PM
Boxrec has the judges scoring at 8-4, 7-5, and 7-4-1 at the time of the knockout...all for Walcott, so had it gone the distance he would've retained the title regardless of what Marciano did over the last three rounds (Rocky would've gotten no better than a draw).

RockyMarcianofan00
01-26-2006, 04:38 PM
yea i know which is what made the KO so great but Rocky Was rarely ever up on points i think he only won once by decision---Ezzard Charles the frist time
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Southpaw Stinger
01-26-2006, 04:41 PM
Struggled with Ezzard Charles. Went the full 15 in their first meeting and Marciano did win a deserved UD. Foreman would have knocked the guy out to be honest since we are discussing power.

Second fight with Charles, Boxrec says that Marciano was in danger of being TKO'd because the ref was going to stop the fight. Marciano's nose was in a bloody mess.

In an unrelated topic. If Marciano boxed today many of his fights would probrably be stopped because of his easy bleeding. He would be a cruiserweight today as well.

Yogi
01-26-2006, 04:42 PM
yea i know which is what made the KO so great but Rocky Was rarely ever up on points i think he only won once by decision---Ezzard Charles the frist time

He won six fights by decision, my friend, but that was the only championship fight that went the distance...Marciano was up on the scorecards in every other championship fight he was involved in, as well as every other fight that I've seen him in.

Yogi
01-26-2006, 04:51 PM
Second fight with Charles, Boxrec says that Marciano was in danger of being TKO'd because the ref was going to stop the fight. Marciano's nose was in a bloody mess.

It may have been stopped, but here's some quotes from the fight;

"It was not the kind of cut that would normally be caused by a punch, perhaps more like the pointed bone of an elbow catching him as he moved toward Charles."

"The doctor himself was reluctant to take a man's championship away on what appeared to be a freak accident."

Besides the sixth round, which was basically the only round Charles won in the fight, from what I saw that fight was pretty much a one-sided drubbing right from the opening bell on.

RockyMarcianofan00
01-26-2006, 04:56 PM
Struggled with Ezzard Charles. Went the full 15 in their first meeting and Marciano did win a deserved UD. Foreman would have knocked the guy out to be honest since we are discussing power.

Second fight with Charles, Boxrec says that Marciano was in danger of being TKO'd because the ref was going to stop the fight. Marciano's nose was in a bloody mess.

In an unrelated topic. If Marciano boxed today many of his fights would probrably be stopped because of his easy bleeding. He would be a cruiserweight today as well.

Cruiser i may be mistaken but i think he'd be more in the Light Heavyweight division he was 185-188 i may be mistaken though
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Southpaw Stinger
01-26-2006, 04:58 PM
I don't know any detail of the second Charles fight, all I Know is what is written on boxrec.

pretty much a one-sided drubbing right from the opening bell on.

If that was a Foreman fight, it would barely make it past the first few rounds. Foreman put guys away early because he was the hardest hitter of all time. Marciano was great at hitter hard for 15 rounds and wearing an opponent down.

Marciano in the 15th round of a fight hits harder than Foreman in the 15th round of a fight. Marciano had better punching stamina. But in the first 2 - 5 rounds of a fight, no one hits harder than a prime Foreman.

RockyMarcianofan00
01-26-2006, 05:00 PM
He won six fights by decision, my friend, but that was the only championship fight that went the distance...Marciano was up on the scorecards in every other championship fight he was involved in, as well as every other fight that I've seen him in.
yea your rite i said it wrong only chapionship fight but also its the only fight that went 15 rounds, the other decisions were 10 rounders
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RockyMarcianofan00
01-26-2006, 05:02 PM
I don't know any detail of the second Charles fight, all I Know is what is written on boxrec.



If that was a Foreman fight, it would barely make it past the first few rounds. Foreman put guys away early because he was the hardest hitter of all time. Marciano was great at hitter hard for 15 rounds and wearing an opponent down.

Marciano in the 15th round of a fight hits harder than Foreman in the 15th round of a fight. Marciano had better punching stamina. But in the first 2 - 5 rounds of a fight, no one hits harder than a prime Foreman.
Foreman didn't hit harder
they hit the same or Marciano hit harder thats already been established

i do like foreman though he's my 2nd/3rd favorite fighter
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Southpaw Stinger
01-26-2006, 05:06 PM
Foreman didn't hit harder
they hit the same or Marciano hit harder thats already been established

It has'nt been established at all mate. You say Marciano hit harder than everyone but he didn't. It's widely regarded that Foreman is the hardest hitter of all time.

Also, didn't the gloves of Marciano's era have a lot less padding? That adds a bit on ya punch. Gloves of Foreman era were heavier with more padding which would slow and weaken his punches a bit.

Foreman hit harder, face it.

And Foreman is one of my favourites as well. My all time favourite is Ali, The Greatest! :boxing:

RockyMarcianofan00
01-26-2006, 05:08 PM
no its never been decided if Foreman hit harder then Marciano thats why most experts will say they hit basically as hard as each other but if not Marciano hit harder
i do understand that they had less padding in the 50's but what ounce gloves did they use in the 70's i was pretty sure it was 10oz in the 50's


o and my favorite figthers are Marciano/Dempsey/Louis/Foreman---No Particular order
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Yogi
01-26-2006, 05:10 PM
Cruiser i may be mistaken but i think he'd be more in the Light Heavyweight division he was 185-188 i may be mistaken though

I think it's next to impossible to guess what Heavyweights back then would weigh nowadays, because of the "supplements", nutrition, weight cutting, etc...For example, when Mike Tyson didn't have acess to his "supplements" in prison he lost quite a bit of muscle mass, and if he was 200 lbs the day he walked out of that place, then Bruenor is a bearded gnome.

Yogi
01-26-2006, 05:12 PM
It's widely regarded that Foreman is the hardest hitter of all time.

I'll agree with a few common opponents that they had (like Ali, Young, Lyle, etc.), and will take Shavers' punching power over Foreman's, thank you very much.

RockyMarcianofan00
01-26-2006, 05:13 PM
ha ha yea thats true i figure if Marciano were around today he would probably do Alot more Weight Lifting and probably bulk up to close to 190-200 because he lifted homade weights when he was a kid and use to train with cinderblocks around his wrists when he was a fighter so he'd probably be into weight lifting,he really didn't do any offcial weight training and he hit that hard go figure right?
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Southpaw Stinger
01-26-2006, 05:15 PM
I think it's 8 - 10oz in the seventies and less in the 40's 50s. If Marciano wore 70's gloves, his hits would be weaker. If Foreman wore the same gloves as Marciano his hits would be even stronger.

Also, Foreman had a string of 24 straight KO's, Marciano had only 16. The opponents that Foreman faced during those 24 were heavier and aslo arguably better than that of Marciano's 16.

RockyMarcianofan00
01-26-2006, 05:15 PM
well either way he had the either tied for or the best punch in boxing history
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RockyMarcianofan00
01-26-2006, 05:18 PM
I think it's 8 - 10oz in the seventies and less in the 40's 50s. If Marciano wore 70's gloves, his hits would be weaker. If Foreman wore the same gloves as Marciano his hits would be even stronger.

Also, Foreman had a string of 24 straight KO's, Marciano had only 16. The opponents that Foreman faced during those 24 were heavier and aslo arguably better than that of Marciano's 16.
no way did they use less then 8oz gloves- i'm pretty sure they used 10oz gloves in the 50's cause anything less then 10oz is like bare fists

and the thing i noticed about marciano is that it didnt' matter whether it was a Prime Jersey Joe Walcott or and aging (but still respectable) Archie Moore he always looked the same, behind on points taking hits but then ko ing them with a combination of Hard Hits so i think that if he fought better contenders he'd still do good

another thing is if Rocky Had a better trainer like Cus D'mato he would have been (more) unstoppable
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Southpaw Stinger
01-26-2006, 05:20 PM
ha ha yea thats true i figure if Marciano were around today he would probably do Alot more Weight Lifting and probably bulk up to close to 190-200 because he lifted homade weights when he was a kid and use to train with cinderblocks around his wrists when he was a fighter so he'd probably be into weight lifting,he really didn't do any offcial weight training and he hit that hard go figure right?

Weight lifting doesn't equaul punching power. Some boxers keep clear of weights and hit very hard none the less. Marciano had technique which allowed him to hit very hard. His technique made him put every pound of his bodyweight into his punchers. Logically, if Foreman used the same technique then his hits would obviously would be much harder, because he was a lot heavier.

And if Marciano used modern methods to gain weight, then he might not have been as good or strong fighter. Your body has a natural fighting weight, achieved through the correct training and conditioning.
All too often you hear of fighters pushing themselves to get to a higher weight class. You become slower and weaker as a result.

RockyMarcianofan00
01-26-2006, 05:23 PM
well i do agree with one thing Weight Lifting doesn't give you all the punching power but if rocky lifted weights it would have made his hit twice as strong. Could you imagine if Foreman actually did use the same technique as Rocky, woooo Foreman would like kill someone with one hit i mean when he hit he only used arm strength i know this but if he put his weight into all i can say to that is WOW

it would be a devasting hit
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Southpaw Stinger
01-26-2006, 05:23 PM
no way did they use less then 8oz gloves- i'm pretty sure they used 10oz gloves in the 50's cause anything less then 10oz is like bare fists

8oz is standard glove weight ain't it? They used 8oz for the Ali wepner fight and most fights around then were 8 - 10oz. 8 oz is still standard glove weight for pro's. My gloves are 8oz.

another thing is if Rocky Had a better trainer like Cus D'mato he would have been (more) unstoppable

Now your talking ****e. Obviously an obsessive Marciano fan. No fighter is unstopable.

Southpaw Stinger
01-26-2006, 05:24 PM
Could you imagine if Foreman actually did use the same technique as Rocky, woooo Foreman would like kill someone with one hit i mean when he hit he only used arm strength i know this but if he put his weight into all i can say to that is WOW

Your right there man! Foreman would be arrested for 24 straight murders! lol

RockyMarcianofan00
01-26-2006, 05:26 PM
8oz is standard glove weight ain't it? They used 8oz for the Ali wepner fight and most fights around then were 8 - 10oz. 8 oz is still standard glove weight for pro's. My gloves are 8oz.



Now your talking ****e. Obviously an obsessive Marciano fan. No fighter is unstopable.

yea your right no fighter is unstoppable that was alittle bit of a joke but he would have been a better "boxer" ya know like along with that power cus d'mato would have shown him how to use foot work

and yea what i meant to say is i can't imagine them using less the 8oz cause thats like next to bare fist but yea standard is 8-10oz

i know in amatuer fights (sanctioned) they use 10oz
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RockyMarcianofan00
01-26-2006, 05:27 PM
Your right there man! Foreman would be arrested for 24 straight murders! lol
lol
yea :boxing:
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RockyMarcianofan00
01-26-2006, 05:30 PM
think i liked about foreman was that he had really big arms for a boxer like ya know your supposed to have relitvely small arms for your strength but he had big arms but he could get away with it becasue his arms were natrually that big
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Southpaw Stinger
01-26-2006, 05:41 PM
think i liked about foreman was that he had really big arms for a boxer like ya know your supposed to have relitvely small arms for your strength but he had big arms but he could get away with it becasue his arms were natrually that big

Marciano had strong legs which is where he got the leverage from.

RockyMarcianofan00
01-26-2006, 07:15 PM
yea he also got alot of leverage cause he was short for a heavy weight
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Pugnacious_Z
01-27-2006, 12:55 AM
in rockys days and b4 then, its wasnt the weight of the gloves that made their punch that much harder, it was mostly the padding. 2 ounces on a glove isnt really gona make someone like foreman that much weaker its the padding that was different back then. When you punch someone with gloves, if you throw a punch with 100kg of force, by the time the padding absorbs some of the force, youll lose more then 20% of force, and in rockys days there padding was shifted around and not as thick which means there full force got through.

And now im gona post what every1 has been waiting for, Rocky Marciano hitting the 300lb Bag

Pugnacious_Z
01-27-2006, 01:07 AM
What Every1 Has Been Waiting For:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wl0yZIXqBk

Southpaw Stinger
01-27-2006, 11:59 AM
Thanks for posting it Pug, having problems viewing it but I've seen it before anyways. I actually think the footage of Foreman destroying a heavy bag is much more ferocious! If you think that Marciano looks impressive and hard punching on the bag, watch Foreman, he will literally blow you away!

Dempsey 1919
01-27-2006, 12:28 PM
What Every1 Has Been Waiting For:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wl0yZIXqBk

it doesn't show the clip when i click on it. it shows other clips.

Popeye
01-29-2006, 06:37 PM
I still think marciano is the hardest hitter p4p, but I'll agree with Foreman being the hardest, but I think it depends on the range in which both fighters are punching, foreman through longer punches, where as marciano would use his short arms and punch real close, if you look at the walcott fight, the knockout punch only traveled about 6 inches...

Southpaw Stinger
01-29-2006, 07:00 PM
George Foreman, in his prime had the highest knockout percentage in boxing history. After his destruction of Norton, he was 40-0 with 37 knockouts, for a knockout percentage of 92.50. In his career Foreman had 15 first round knockouts and 18 second round knockouts. That's 33 knockouts inside of the first 2 rounds! He had 46 knockouts that were 3 rounds or less, which is more than any other heavyweight champion. George Foreman’s incredible two round destruction over Joe Frazier was the most one-sided beating ever delivered upon an undefeated heavyweight champion.

RockyMarcianofan00
01-29-2006, 09:37 PM
Thanks for posting it Pug, having problems viewing it but I've seen it before anyways. I actually think the footage of Foreman destroying a heavy bag is much more ferocious! If you think that Marciano looks impressive and hard punching on the bag, watch Foreman, he will literally blow you away!
thats cause marciano hit a 300 lb bag
which is freaking amazing :boxing:
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RockyMarcianofan00
01-29-2006, 09:39 PM
George Foreman, in his prime had the highest knockout percentage in boxing history. After his destruction of Norton, he was 40-0 with 37 knockouts, for a knockout percentage of 92.50. In his career Foreman had 15 first round knockouts and 18 second round knockouts. That's 33 knockouts inside of the first 2 rounds! He had 46 knockouts that were 3 rounds or less, which is more than any other heavyweight champion. George Foreman?s incredible two round destruction over Joe Frazier was the most one-sided beating ever delivered upon an undefeated heavyweight champion.


Foreman had 87% KO rate in his career
Marciano had an 88% KO rate which is why i always say that Foreman and Marciano are close in strength (this is only one of the reasons)
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Heckler
01-30-2006, 12:16 AM
yeah but you have to make things relative to the opposition. Foreman knocked out Lyle and frazier... twice, and i think its quite clear that foreman is more powerful then marciano... ALOT more powerful, probably not.

RockyMarcianofan00
01-30-2006, 01:18 AM
yeah but you have to make things relative to the opposition. Foreman knocked out Lyle and frazier... twice, and i think its quite clear that foreman is more powerful then marciano... ALOT more powerful, probably not.
eh i'm still skeptical
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LondonRingRules
01-30-2006, 07:22 AM
======Foreman had 87% KO rate in his career
Marciano had an 88% KO rate which is why i always say that Foreman and Marciano are close in strength (this is only one of the reasons)=======

** Don't be ridiculous. Foreman's last fight was a couple months before he turned 49. Rocky's last fight was a couple of weeks after he turned 32. Foreman outweighed Rocky 35-75 lbs. Foreman has more KOs that Rocky has bouts. The only reason Foreman could compile these kinds of numbers is because of his immense strength, probably the strongest man in boxing history.

Brockton Lip
01-30-2006, 08:13 AM
Marciano broke bones and put people in comas. The great thing about Marciano is that he could punch his hardest the entire fight but Foreman would end up punching himself out. I don't know who hits harder. Foremans bigger but Marciano threw some perfect punches.

Dempsey 1919
01-30-2006, 11:22 AM
Foreman had 87% KO rate in his career
Marciano had an 88% KO rate which is why i always say that Foreman and Marciano are close in strength (this is only one of the reasons)

but foreman fought way past his prime. at the time of his first retirement in 1976, foreman had a 93% ko percentage.

Southpaw Stinger
01-30-2006, 11:37 AM
but foreman fought way past his prime. at the time of his first retirement in 1976, foreman had a 93% ko percentage.

I know, Foreman had a higher KO percentage than anyone! He also KO'd bigger and better boxers than Marciano did.

Brockton Lip
01-30-2006, 01:22 PM
Yeah and he lost fights too lol. He had more knockouts but he had more losses also. If Marciano kept going, it probably would've been the same thing. More knockouts but more losses.

Southpaw Stinger
01-30-2006, 02:26 PM
Yeah and he lost fights too lol. He had more knockouts but he had more losses also. If Marciano kept going, it probably would've been the same thing. More knockouts but more losses.

No shame in losing to Ali. The Rumble in the Jungle was actually Foreman most famous fight, even though he lost! lol It was also the only KO defeat he ever suffered.

LS-Injection
01-30-2006, 02:50 PM
Well i would have been happy to be Foreman then the only KO defeat he ever had wow!

RockyMarcianofan00
01-30-2006, 02:54 PM
I know, Foreman had a higher KO percentage than anyone! He also KO'd bigger and better boxers than Marciano did.
don't downgrade marciano's opponents he had some really good ones

Prime Jersey Joe Walcott
Ezzard Charles
Carmine Vingo was an up and coming boxer
Roland LaStarza was a veteran of the ring
and even Joe Louis was nobody to be messed with (though not nearly as good as he was)

and even archie moore
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RockyMarcianofan00
01-30-2006, 02:55 PM
but foreman fought way past his prime. at the time of his first retirement in 1976, foreman had a 93% ko percentage.
yea but see Marciano is also admired for being smart and staying retired he also retired on the top of his game, and stayed retired

though i am glad foreman came out of retirement cause even though he was old he was still kickin ass :boxing:
and that is awesome
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RockyMarcianofan00
01-30-2006, 02:56 PM
Well i would have been happy to be Foreman then the only KO defeat he ever had wow!
thats impressive actually '
i didn't know that thanks for letting me in on it
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Southpaw Stinger
01-30-2006, 03:04 PM
yea but see Marciano is also admired for being smart and staying retired he also retired on the top of his game, and stayed retired

though i am glad foreman came out of retirement cause even though he was old he was still kickin ass
and that is awesome

I respect Marciano for being smart and staying retired. I felt he would lose if he tried to make a comeback. He actually retired early because of an injury I think. He wanted to make a comeback and fight Liston, but I think that since Marciano was in his late 30's early 40's and badly out of condition, I think he would have lost. Good job his friends talked him out of it.

RockyMarcianofan00
01-30-2006, 03:08 PM
yea he retired because of a back injury that was getting worse, he went up to 300lbs, he wanted to make a come back not only to fight sonny liston but also ali

and to tell you the truth i don't think he would have kept his perfect record but i do think that if he lost it wouldn't be more then 3 times and it wouldn't because he was bad it would be because he wouldn't be able to get conditioned i mean for the computer fight it took 3 months of straight training and dieting to get from 300 to 240 and he usually fought at 188 so ya see why he'd be having trouble but if he managed to make a come back at 188 he would wipe the floor with the competition
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Dempsey 1919
01-30-2006, 03:18 PM
yea he retired because of a back injury that was getting worse, he went up to 300lbs, he wanted to make a come back not only to fight sonny liston but also ali

and to tell you the truth i don't think he would have kept his perfect record but i do think that if he lost it wouldn't be more then 3 times and it wouldn't because he was bad it would be because he wouldn't be able to get conditioned i mean for the computer fight it took 3 months of straight training and dieting to get from 300 to 240 and he usually fought at 188 so ya see why he'd be having trouble but if he managed to make a come back at 188 he would wipe the floor with the competition

no way he would beat ali, liston, or patterson in his 40s.

RockyMarcianofan00
01-30-2006, 03:22 PM
he would beat patterson, and liston and have a decent shot at ali

its all about how well conditioned he was, and it would most likely not be in his 40's, you gotta remember fighters from marciano's era could fight into there early 40's and not be to much worse then they were, i mean Jersey Joe Walcott only got better as he got older, Archie Moore still was really good when he got older, Joe Louis wasn't as good as he was but could still kick ass and be a top contender later in his life, its all about how conditioned they were

if Marciano conditioned the only person you mentioned that he would have trouble with would be ali because he'd be dancing around
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Southpaw Stinger
01-30-2006, 03:26 PM
I don't think Marciano could beat Liston in his 40's. Doesn't matter how well condtioned you are, Marciano would be looking at a lot of brain damage if he took the amount of punishment he did in his prime in his 40's. A 40's Marciano doesn't stand against someone like Liston, Ali. He might have a shot at Patterson though!

RockyMarcianofan00
01-30-2006, 03:31 PM
like i said a comeback for marciano would be in his 40's
the last time Marciano wanted to comeback was when he was like 35 i believe so you wouldn't really be talking about him being 40's more mid 30's so.....but if he came back in his prime it'd be insane, but i suppose if anybody came back in there prime then it would be alittle nuts lol
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sleazyfellow
02-02-2006, 04:28 PM
the only way rocky was gonna make a comeback is if igamar johansen or however u spell it won the rematch with patterson...if that tells u anything

randy johnson
06-01-2008, 12:49 AM
yea Rocky hit aa huge homemade 300lb heavy bag which is ridiculously heavy
btw Marciano actually hit as hard or harder then Foreman (not talking p4p)crazy ya know


Another foolish white fanboy.If Marciano hit harder than Foreman then why did it take him 9 rounds to knockout glass chin guys like Archie Moore?Why does Foreman have more knockouts in the first 5 rounds than any fighting in heavyweight boxing history?How many 200 pound plus black guys did Marciano fight in his career?The best fighters he fought were a 40 year old Archie Moore who started his career as a middleweight.Ezzard Charles also started his career as a middleweight,Jersey Joe Walcott was pushing 40 and was only a cruiserweight not to mention he was knocked out5 or so times before he even fought Marciano.Most people felt Roland Lastarza beat Marciano in their first fight and Lastarza was only about 180 pounds.Many people felt that Ted Lowry beat Marciano in their first fight.At the time Lowry had 58 wins and 48 loses so basically he was a bum and Marciano never knocked him down in either of their fights.There is nothing more sad than racism in this day in age.But that fact RockyMarcianofan00 is a fan of Marciano proves you he knows nothing about boxing.
Foreman didn't use a 150 pound punching bag by the way.He used a 300 pound ones.They said he used the biggest they made and a 150 pound punching bag wasn't the biggest they made

Thunder Lips
06-01-2008, 01:51 AM
Prime George Foreman destroying massive black men to build up his incredible ko percentage. The only knockouts that count.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=hci4MCOonfk&feature=related

http://youtube.com/watch?v=e0Eut7OCdLg&feature=related

http://youtube.com/watch?v=mNdJBK5zkRM&feature=related

http://youtube.com/watch?v=64MoBf1ImIA&feature=related

http://youtube.com/watch?v=QNQJzTDo9CM

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Fu_sV4CCV80



BTW, I'm a huge Foreman fan and I'm not trying to argue he wasn't one of history's hardest hitters. Just pointing out how stupid and racist Randy's comments were. Outside of Ali and Young who both beat Foreman, his only prime win against a crafty defensive fighter is the older and much smaller Perata, a not very convincing decision and late stoppage. Rocky stopped LaStarza, Charles, and Mathews. He also gave the tough favored Rex Layne his first stoppage loss, who was coming off a win against Walcott. Marciano also knocked out 200+ lb black man Keene Simmons but the guy sucked so you should probably look for a different criteria of measuring power.

Foreman was probably a harder puncher I think but Rocky isn't too far off, a top 5 puncher at the very least. Because of his vastly superior stamina and endless pressure, Rocky may have been the more effective puncher against slicker more skilled fighters. It also said Marciano started holding back on his punches after he nearly killed Vingo, a tragic event that bothered him greatly.

hemichromis
06-01-2008, 06:51 AM
Foreman was hitting heavybag like beginner: wild punches to stationary target. Basically it was example how you shouldn't work on heavybag. I really think that trainers ****ed up Foreman's technique. He learned some skills but his punches were always wide and he was too vulnarble for left hook and overhand right, Lyle showed it well.

actually the trainers ****ed him up after the ali fight, they were teaching him to throw straight in training but as soon as he went in the ring he reverted back to his old habits that he hadn't practiced in months. this is part of the reason why foreman had soo much trouble with lyle and young

them_apples
06-01-2008, 12:14 PM
Foreman hits wayy harder than rocky, I'm hardly impressed by Rockies overrated power. I've seen videos of him hitting the heavy bag liston and foreman look like much much harder punchers.

marciano1952
06-01-2008, 03:34 PM
Foreman hits wayy harder than rocky, I'm hardly impressed by Rockies overrated power. I've seen videos of him hitting the heavy bag liston and foreman look like much much harder punchers.

Key word Look LOL Fact is Power comes from technique and if your givein it at birth

Look I waight 140lbs and my Brother ways 215 or somthing like that but ask anyone that has boxed with eaither of us who hites harder they will say me and im 70lbs lighter than him

BTW everyone is forgettinn one major player in this conversation Jack Dempsey he KOed both the top 2 HW contenders in under 30 secounds befor getting his shot at willer and then look what happend to the monster for his time Willard was

Also Max bear is a major player in this aswell

them_apples
06-01-2008, 07:25 PM
Key word Look LOL Fact is Power comes from technique and if your givein it at birth

Look I waight 140lbs and my Brother ways 215 or somthing like that but ask anyone that has boxed with eaither of us who hites harder they will say me and im 70lbs lighter than him

BTW everyone is forgettinn one major player in this conversation Jack Dempsey he KOed both the top 2 HW contenders in under 30 secounds befor getting his shot at willer and then look what happend to the monster for his time Willard was

Also Max bear is a major player in this aswell

Is your brother fat and out of shape? does he know how to punch?

Ether way how has Marciano shown he has devastating punching power? Foreman made guys keel over from one punch.

Size isn't everything because some of the "bigger" guys don't know how to punch. Jess Willard was a lousy puncher, he didn't know how to put his weight behind a punch, that's why Dempsey hit harder. I can punch harder than some 200 lb fat kid because I'm in better shape than him, and I know how to punch, he doesn't.

But find a bigger boxer who knows how to punch and low and behold...they break ribs!

Foreman was sloppy but he flung his weight behind his punches.

Thunder Lips
06-01-2008, 08:48 PM
Marciano and Foreman were both freaks of nature in terms of natural punching power; arguing who may or may not have hit harder is kind of a mute point. Chances are they could put anyone away if they got to them clean. Rocky's Susie Q was actually measured at hitting with 900+ lbs of force and I wouldn't doubt prime Foreman's best punch being close to that. These men were both monsters who were going to hurt you when they landed good.

Marciano has stopped Rex Layne, Charles, and Walcott cold with single right hands. He also stopped Matthews and Walcott in the rematch early with single flush left hooks. He put the 6'4" Vingo into a coma that ended his career and he actually broke bones in LaStarza's arms. Guys like Louis, Moore, and Charles who have been around the block all cite him as one of the most damaging and hardest punchers they ever faced. I'm not sure how anyone could doubt his power unless they just focus on something like the ****ell fight where he was coming off an unusual long lay off from injuries and looked terrible.


http://youtube.com/watch?v=PgR4JHUSAo4

Tyson vs. Marciano silliness but it does show Rocky impressively moving the custom jumbo size 300 lb bag at the 1 minute mark.

I also don't doubt Marciano would blast away guys like this just as easily as prime Foreman:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=wUW4ZXxw9Aw

As far as size goes again, I stress that Marciano didn't carry a ton of upper body bulk when fighting but he had very strong legs, short strong arms, and huge ****ing hands. His fists were 11.5-12 inches, roughly the same size or similar to Tyson, Foreman, and Lennox Lewis' fists while larger than 6'8" Vitali's. People base size too much on the scale.

them_apples
06-01-2008, 11:25 PM
Marciano and Foreman were both freaks of nature in terms of natural punching power; arguing who may or may not have hit harder is kind of a mute point. Chances are they could put anyone away if they got to them clean. Rocky's Susie Q was actually measured at hitting with 900+ lbs of force and I wouldn't doubt prime Foreman's best punch being close to that. These men were both monsters who were going to hurt you when they landed good.

A lot of guys have been clocked at hitting higher than 900 lbs of force. Hell, some boxer on "fighting science" clocked around 900 lbs and he's a nobody.
(youtube fighting science in case you haven't seen it, I don't agree with all of it but it's worth a watch)

I've heard of guys like Bruno ,Lewis ,Tyson and shavers all hitting WELL over 1000 lbs of force, I'm sure Foreman could to.

mcentepede
06-02-2008, 12:00 AM
In terms of power, knockouts and vs. other top-notch bombers, Foreman is the best, followed by Shavers, Lyle, Cooney, Marciano, and Lennox. You guys seem to forget that George"Meineke" Foreman flattened Moorer at age 45, proof that the last thing to go is a guy's power. Moore was twenty-something and the champ ( and just beat up Holifield)

Thunder Lips
06-02-2008, 12:48 AM
A lot of guys have been clocked at hitting higher than 900 lbs of force. Hell, some boxer on "fighting science" clocked around 900 lbs and he's a nobody.
(youtube fighting science in case you haven't seen it, I don't agree with all of it but it's worth a watch)

I've heard of guys like Bruno ,Lewis ,Tyson and shavers all hitting WELL over 1000 lbs of force, I'm sure Foreman could to.


"The punch of a knockout fighter carries a huge amount of energy. Scientists will tell you that an uppercut which lifts a man off his feet requires the energy of ‘mgh’, where ‘m’ is the mass of the opponent, ‘g’ the acceleration due to gravity and ‘h’ the height to which the opponent is lifted. On average, it is reckoned that 700 foot-pounds of energy is required to manage this feat.
Around 1955, Rocky Marciano had his punch measured at a USA military installation, where it is believed that the test was conducted on a ballistic pendulum. Rocky achieved a score of 925 foot-pounds whilst wearing a 12oz. boxing glove. Those who witnessed the test could hardly believe what they had seen."


"Marciano's knockout blow packs more explosive energy than an armour-piercing bullet and represents as much energy as would be required to spot lift 1000 pounds one foot off the ground." Boxing Illustrated December 1963


You sound like your talking about PSI, not what Marciano's power was said to be measured in by the military. There was a claim that Bruno and a young Tyson were measured with Bruno edging him out with absurd figures. I'm not sure if there was ever any credible evidence of this or if it was a wise tell, there doesn't seem to be. Do you have any credible links for these other figures?

marciano1952
06-02-2008, 03:58 PM
Is your brother fat and out of shape? does he know how to punch?

Ether way how has Marciano shown he has devastating punching power? Foreman made guys keel over from one punch.

Size isn't everything because some of the "bigger" guys don't know how to punch. Jess Willard was a lousy puncher, he didn't know how to put his weight behind a punch, that's why Dempsey hit harder. I can punch harder than some 200 lb fat kid because I'm in better shape than him, and I know how to punch, he doesn't.

But find a bigger boxer who knows how to punch and low and behold...they break ribs!

Foreman was sloppy but he flung his weight behind his punches.

no he is not fat and yes he knows how to punch im just able to punch harder caus my punches are faster

Jess did know how to punch look at the Johnson Clip for Prof

Foreman like Tyson built up his KOes against bums and only trew punches with his arms and that seemed to cost him in his most important fight

them_apples
06-02-2008, 04:15 PM
You sound like your talking about PSI, not what Marciano's power was said to be measured in by the military. There was a claim that Bruno and a young Tyson were measured with Bruno edging him out with absurd figures. I'm not sure if there was ever any credible evidence of this or if it was a wise tell, there doesn't seem to be. Do you have any credible links for these other figures?

I'm talking about lbs of Force, not psi.
I have heard of the Tyson Bruno thing, Tyson was 16, Bruno was 20+ Bruno punched at 1600 lbs of force, Tyson 1500. That could just be one of those forum circulating "facts".

anyways, give this a watch and judge for yourself.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=XRNY_EG4IEc&feature=related

I'm not saying Marciano was weak, he was obviously smaller than the boxer in this video and hit only marginally harder, but a guy like Foreman or Tyson simply would rock the scales in terms of lbs of force.

Foreman like Tyson built up his KOes against bums and only trew punches with his arms and that seemed to cost him in his most important fight

Absolute garbage, every fighter builds up KOes against bums at first but Marciano was the MOST notorious for doing this, hell, his biggest wins came from blown up middleweights. I should also point out that Tyson, while I doubt he hit harder than Foreman, was a master of throwing punches, more so than Marciano.

Foreman Koed both Frazier and Norton in 2 rounds, they were definitely not bums.

Tyson Koed Spinks and Holmes....(Holmes had never been Koed, even by shavers, he also beat a prime Ray Mercer at this age)

marciano1952
06-02-2008, 05:08 PM
Absolute garbage, every fighter builds up KOes against bums at first but Marciano was the MOST notorious for doing this, hell, his biggest wins came from blown up middleweights. I should also point out that Tyson, while I doubt he hit harder than Foreman, was a master of throwing punches, more so than Marciano.

Foreman Koed both Frazier and Norton in 2 rounds, they were definitely not bums.

Tyson Koed Spinks and Holmes....(Holmes had never been Koed, even by shavers, he also beat a prime Ray Mercer at this age)

really Marcianos Comp on the way up was better than Tyson or Foremans

one Spinks was Scared ****less in the fight and holmes was comeing off a 4 year layoff so not really that grat of win when you count in that when Tyson Finaly went up against a decent fighter he was KOed

Foreman was able to beat them so easyly caus they stood right there in froint of him just begging to be hit buy one of his wild swings

Talk about blown up fighters being biggest wins Spinks was Tysons biggest win and I would take Charles and Moorer over Spinks any day of the week

Boogie Nights
06-02-2008, 05:18 PM
no he is not fat and yes he knows how to punch im just able to punch harder caus my punches are faster

Jess did know how to punch look at the Johnson Clip for Prof

Foreman like Tyson built up his KOes against bums and only trew punches with his arms and that seemed to cost him in his most important fight so guys like Norton, Frazier, Lyle were all bums??? Idiot.

them_apples
06-02-2008, 05:40 PM
Talk about blown up fighters being biggest wins Spinks was Tysons biggest win and I would take Charles and Moorer over Spinks any day of the week

Tyson cleaned out his division, number 1 contenders and so on. Not just Spinks and Holmes.

People call them "bums" because they got owned so bad, they did the same to Roy Jones. Many of Tyson's opponents were not bums and almost all of them were bigger than him, something Marciano never had to deal with.


Spinks was undefeated, he beat an undefeated Holmes, Cooney, and lost only once..to Tyson.

Tony tucker was also undefeated 35-0

Looking at Tysons record on Box rec, he had a Ton of stiff oposition that will never get recognized. Foreman had even tougher opposition.

Marciano fought small, 190 lb fighters, some of them older than your grandma.

marciano1952
06-02-2008, 06:25 PM
Tyson cleaned out his division, number 1 contenders and so on. Not just Spinks and Holmes.

People call them "bums" because they got owned so bad, they did the same to Roy Jones. Many of Tyson's opponents were not bums and almost all of them were bigger than him, something Marciano never had to deal with.


Spinks was undefeated, he beat an undefeated Holmes, Cooney, and lost only once..to Tyson.

Tony tucker was also undefeated 35-0

Looking at Tysons record on Box rec, he had a Ton of stiff oposition that will never get recognized. Foreman had even tougher opposition.

Marciano fought small, 190 lb fighters, some of them older than your grandma.


Spinks lost twice only one was offical he lost to holmes in the rematch

Charles beat Louis and Walcott at heavy even thow wallcott beat him in the rematch

Marciano in his 5th fight fought a guy who was 15-0-1 and stopped him in one round

marciano1952
06-02-2008, 06:27 PM
so guys like Norton, Frazier, Lyle were all bums??? Idiot.

no thows were after he had stepped up what I ment was on his way up

Both Frazier and Norton were made to order for Foreman that stoode right there in front of him

Thunder Lips
06-02-2008, 09:16 PM
"I'm talking about lbs of Force, not psi.
I have heard of the Tyson Bruno thing, Tyson was 16, Bruno was 20+ Bruno punched at 1600 lbs of force, Tyson 1500. That could just be one of those forum circulating "facts"."

Sadly, none of this seems to be true. Bruno's straight cross was in fact officially measured but it was for some sort of study for potential brain damage on boxers. Bruno's best punch measured 6320 newtons.

Here's a link:

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/picrender.fcgi?artid=1419171&blobtype=pdf

This roughly translates into 1,420 lbs of impact.

Marciano's test didn't measure impact in the same way as it was more of a bullet test, measured in 925 foot pounds(pounds per traveled foot) which is on par or stronger than some bullets. This means a lunging fully extended punch like the Susie Q would most likely surpass Bruno's impact rating.

This is of course assuming all these tests are correct.

anyways, give this a watch and judge for yourself.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=XRNY_EG4IEc&feature=related

This seems like bull****. Sorry.

Marciano's knockout ratio: 88***37;
Foreman's knockout ratio: 89%

Pretty damn close. Foreman has more kos but he didn't step up into serious comp until his 37th fight with Fraizer though.

them_apples
06-02-2008, 09:36 PM
Brunos punch measures 1400+ lbs of force according to you, yet somehow Marciano comes out on top?

Marcianos KO record is vs 190 lb middleweights, Foreman is hitting guys around 220, better fighters to.


lbs of force is lbs of force enough said

Thunder Lips
06-03-2008, 12:03 AM
"Brunos punch measures 1400+ lbs of force according to you, yet somehow Marciano comes out on top? "

Not according to me but simple rules of conversion. That is assuming the test was accurate.

Assuming Rocky's test was accurate were talking 925 foot pounds (925 pounds per travelled foot) on a right cross that most likely travelled more than a foot. Rocky's arms were short but they weren't that short.

This is all scientific mumbo jumbo anyway. I only bring up the Rocky thing because I don't think the military's comments on his power are pretty indisuptable.


"Marcianos KO record is vs 190 lb middleweights, Foreman is hitting guys around 220, better fighters to."

Yawn....

Boogie Nights
06-03-2008, 12:40 AM
i laugh at how people say marciano hits harder than foreman, and bring up these scientific tests which really dont mean ****.

lol this **** is hilarious, marciano hitting harder than foreman.

rocky is not even a top ten hardest puncher, i dont know what these guys are smoking

Thunder Lips
06-04-2008, 09:59 PM
i laugh at how people say marciano hits harder than foreman, and bring up these scientific tests which really dont mean ****.

lol this **** is hilarious, marciano hitting harder than foreman.

rocky is not even a top ten hardest puncher, i dont know what these guys are smoking

:nonono:

Find me the quote where I say Marciano hit harder than Foreman.

Do you mean this one:

"Foreman was probably a harder puncher I think...."

I only disagree with the notion that Marciano was lacking heavyweight power. He lacked many things but that was certainly not one of them.

In the future if you want to debate my posts or waste your time mocking me, at least read them. Say what you will about Them Apples but the man at least knows what he is disagreeing with. This is the second time you have brought up a phantom post of mine that only exists in your head,I will waste no more time with you.

I believe both Marciano and Foreman have scored some of the most impressive knockouts in boxing history and deserve their reputations. I believe Foreman may have been the bigger hitter but there is no way of really knowing for sure, I can only speculate like anyone else. I stand by my comments that because of his super workrate and stamina, Marciano was easily better at breaking down defensively skilled mobile boxers than Foreman. Foreman couldn't knock the ancient light heavy Perata over with a baseball bat half way through their fight, Marciano carried one punch power to the 13th round at the least.

Boogie Nights
06-04-2008, 11:03 PM
:nonono:

Find me the quote where I say Marciano hit harder than Foreman.

Do you mean this one:

"Foreman was probably a harder puncher I think...."

I only disagree with the notion that Marciano was lacking heavyweight power. He lacked many things but that was certainly not one of them.

In the future if you want to debate my posts or waste your time mocking me, at least read them. Say what you will about Them Apples but the man at least knows what he is disagreeing with. This is the second time you have brought up a phantom post of mine that only exists in your head,I will waste no more time with you.

I believe both Marciano and Foreman have scored some of the most impressive knockouts in boxing history and deserve their reputations. I believe Foreman may have been the bigger hitter but there is no way of really knowing for sure, I can only speculate like anyone else. I stand by my comments that because of his super workrate and stamina, Marciano was easily better at breaking down defensively skilled mobile boxers than Foreman. Foreman couldn't knock the ancient light heavy Perata over with a baseball bat half way through their fight, Marciano carried one punch power to the 13th round at the least.
Dude relax, where did you see me use the name Thunder Lips? Did i adress you? No, i didnt. i said people, fans on this forum, and you were one of them yes, but i didnt single you out. if you still sore about that holyfield vs marciano thread, then let it go. you seem to think i have some kind of agenda where all i do the whole day is read you posts.

i remember a thread where you said tunney and some other heavyweight would have a chance against rocky, as you put it. i could dig it up for you, but what would be the use of that? what you said in other posts i dont know, like i said you seem to have a high level of importance of yourself to think im e-stalking you. let it go man, dont take it to heart, and dont make it all about you.

with that said, rocky marciano was a great puncher, and hit very hard. but 185 pound slugger with 67'' reach was no match for 6'4, 220 pound heavyweight with a long reach.

no one is saying rocky didnt have power, he punched hard, but because his name is rocky marciano people seem to make special allowances for him, which isnt fair to other fighters. rocky wasnt a fighter in a heavyweight body, even today, if you follow boxing, you'd know that he would be a small cruiserweight. YEAH.

here's a list of fighters who punch harder than rocky, in no particular order

The Klitshko Brothers
Mike Tyson
Earnie Shavers
George Foreman
Razor Ruddock
Lennox Lewis
Riddick Bowe
Corrie Sanders
Mike Weaver
Gerry Cooney

All these heavyweights punched significantly harder than rocky, make no mistake about that. these are not your average big men, these are heavyweights who pack alot of power. bigger and stronger. and this is just off the top of my head. any fighter above 200 pounds with good punching power will punch harder than rocky

like i said, as soon as people mention name marciano, they put him in the hot seat. the men that rocky knocked out were just as big or smaller than him. not to mention the high profile names on his resume were fighters older than him and already on decline

the whole la starza arguement doesnt hold enough weight behind it. so what if he busted up his arms? im sure if foreman stood in front of him and punched his toothpick arms repetitively it would have much greater effect and do much more damage if his arms were a target area for george's punches. or any other heavyweight for that matter.

rocky marciano busted his arms over the course of the fight, okay, well Jesus Chavez killed Leavander Johnson over 11 rounds, hiting him in the head and giving him brain damage. Does that make Chavez the hardest punching lightweight??

Nigell benn did his thing over mcclelan, does that make nigell the hardest hitting suppermiddleweight? some would say so, but id tell you that mclelan himself punched harder, so did julian jackson

fighters in sparring get their ribs broken from single punches in a single sparring session, does that make those sparring partners the hardest hitters?

marciano punched hard for his weight, and maybe above that, but putting him into the same league with foreman or the other guys i mentioned is redicilous.

plus as much as i like and respect rocky i dont understand how anyone can place him into the top ten greatest heavyweights of all time?? i dont agree with that, because he was overated in that regard. he would make a top 15 or be somewhere below top 20 but no where near top ten. that's a bull**** statement, coming from rocky groupies who make him into the heavyweight god.

i dont hate rocky, or discredit him, he was not a top ten heavyweight IMO. that 49-0 record is really deceiving, and if you ever took the time to break it down, you'd know what i mean. 80% of rocky's record was padded with below average fighers, who either lost many fights before or after, or never fought again. That's a fact my friend

them_apples
06-04-2008, 11:22 PM
Didn't Foreman break someones arm to? I can't remember who, that's the problem!

The thing with Marciano is I think he wore guys down because of his endurance. Marciano punched all 15 rounds and probably didn't lose much power, this wore on a lot of other less developed fighters of the time.

plus as much as i like and respect rocky i dont understand how anyone can place him into the top ten greatest heavyweights of all time?? i dont agree with that, because he was overated in that regard. he would make a top 15 or be somewhere below top 20 but no where near top ten. that's a bull**** statement, coming from rocky groupies who make him into the heavyweight god.

You gotta give rocky a little bit of credit, he retired undefeated and was the phenom of his time. Obviously its stupid to compare rocky to more modern 'elite' heavyweights but I think he could possibly make number 10 just for being a household name.

Boogie Nights
06-04-2008, 11:37 PM
Didn't Foreman break someones arm to? I can't remember who, that's the problem!

The thing with Marciano is I think he wore guys down because of his endurance. Marciano punched all 15 rounds and probably didn't lose much power, this wore on a lot of other less developed fighters of the time.



You gotta give rocky a little bit of credit, he retired undefeated and was the phenom of his time. Obviously its stupid to compare rocky to more modern 'elite' heavyweights but I think he could possibly make number 10 just for being a household name. im gonna come up with a new thread about rocky in the future, about his 49-0 record and the opposition he faced.

im gonna break it down to every detail. and trust me once you see what im talking about i doubt you'll ever think about placing rock in the top

im not gonna make a thread trying to convince people that he wasnt a great fighter, im just gonna show them that 49-0 number is really deceiving

Thunder Lips
06-05-2008, 01:20 AM
Lots of luck with that, it has all been debated before and everyone I believe has access to Box Rec and other sources if your just going to give a run down of guy's records.

I don't think anyone is under the impression that Rocky easily walked through 49 killers. However, his record wasn't intentionally padded, he faced much better regarded prospects earler in his career. No one thought highly of Rocky than and guys like Layne were overwhelming favorites against him.


"Sam Silverman, boxing promoter who provided many of Rocky's early opponents, admitted he brought in fighters with the anticipation that they would defeat Marciano.
"I thought Lowery was gonna lick Rocky. Rocky's fights were all legitimate, good, hard fights. A lot of people were talking about how he was being fed setups. Marciano could have lost any number of times in his early fights." "

Bobby Quinn
Quinn was 15-1 with 14 KOs when they fought. Rocky was 3-0 with 3 KOs and no trainer or handlers other than friends from Brockton such as Allie Columbo. This was actually viewed as an easy fight for Quinn. New England promoter Sam Silverman thought he was doing his friend Jimmy O'Keefe, Quinn's manager, a favor. "This Marchegiano kid's got nothing. He can punch all right, but I've never seen a fighter as clumsy. The kid doesn't know what he's doing out there. Quinn won't have no trouble with him."
Rocky knocked Quinn out in the third round with a short right that knocked him completely off his feet.
Eddie Ross
Ross was 26-0 with 23 KOs. Rocky was 4-0. Again, Rocky was looked at as an easy win for a more experianced fighter.
Sam Silverman recalled, "Ross was classy. I figured Rocky was bound to get beat, and Ross was the kid to do it. I threw Rocky in to give this kid another win."
Rocky knocked Ross out in 1 minute and 3 seconds of the first round.
Carmine Vingo
Vingo had a 27-3 record. Rocky was 24-0. Vingo was 6'4" and came in at 187 pounds. Rocky weighed only 180 3/4 pounds. Vingo had reach, weight, and a slight edge in experiance. The fight was brutal, with both landing powerful punches, but in the 6th Rocky all but destroyed Vingo, knocking him out. Sadly, Vingo was badly hurt and had to be rushed to the hospital. He survived, but never fully recovered. from the beating.


Box Rec gives slightly different records for these guys but it is possible they couldn't verify all of these fights, or just different sources of info. Smiliar listings though.

Eddie Ross is listed as 15-0 with 13 kos.
Bobby Quinn as 8-0 5 kos
Vingo 16-1 7 kos, put into a coma
LaStarza 37-0, not the same after the stoppage.
Lowry was a highly experienced journeyman

Than there are bigger sluggers thrown in to probably see how Rocky would react to them. Wilson had the most passable record.

Jerry Jackson 254
Johnny Shkor 220 TKO 6
Bill Wilson 230 TKO 1

Layne 34-1, never been stopped. Had big wins over guys like Walcott. The Great White Hope, compared to Dempsey, favored over Rocky. Never the same after the big right caught him. Got a win over Charles though.

Matthews 81-3. Moving up in weight but got a good win over Layne. Got some losses toward the end of his career but was never stopped again after the Marciano fight.

Moore, on a near decade win streak. Moved up in weight but lost only twice more after Rocky, to Ali and Patterson respectively. Knocked out decent 200 lb heavies as well.

Charles and Walcott looking great against each other. On the decline but had many great wins before facing Rocky. They were both done after facing Rocky though. Walcott got killed dead by Rocky and looked terrifed in the rematch, already 39 he hung them up. Charles picked up a few solid wins but wasn't the same after he was stopped either.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=1K3TbEuf404

http://youtube.com/watch?v=I85_VBCVs_c

Rocky beat other prospects, beat peers, beat favorites, and caught a couple legends after one took the title and the other was still game. Rocky doesn't take claim for the Louis win but he wasn't bad off as some make out to be either. Not the greatest resume but still impressive, especially when he was fighting on a monthly schedule, had chronic injuries before turning pro(including a bad left hand), and was such a late starter.

Boogie Nights
06-05-2008, 01:40 AM
Lots of luck with that, it has all been debated before and everyone I believe has access to Box Rec and other sources if your just going to give a run down of guy's records.

I don't think anyone is under the impression that Rocky easily walked through 49 killers. However, his record wasn't intentionally padded, he faced much better regarded prospects earler in his career. No one thought highly of Rocky than and guys like Layne were overwhelming favorites against him.


http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=3577411


"Sam Silverman, boxing promoter who provided many of Rocky's early opponents, admitted he brought in fighters with the anticipation that they would defeat Marciano.
"I thought Lowery was gonna lick Rocky. Rocky's fights were all legitimate, good, hard fights. A lot of people were talking about how he was being fed setups. Marciano could have lost any number of times in his early fights." "

Bobby Quinn
Quinn was 15-1 with 14 KOs when they fought. Rocky was 3-0 with 3 KOs and no trainer or handlers other than friends from Brockton such as Allie Columbo. This was actually viewed as an easy fight for Quinn. New England promoter Sam Silverman thought he was doing his friend Jimmy O'Keefe, Quinn's manager, a favor. "This Marchegiano kid's got nothing. He can punch all right, but I've never seen a fighter as clumsy. The kid doesn't know what he's doing out there. Quinn won't have no trouble with him."
Rocky knocked Quinn out in the third round with a short right that knocked him completely off his feet.
Eddie Ross
Ross was 26-0 with 23 KOs. Rocky was 4-0. Again, Rocky was looked at as an easy win for a more experianced fighter.
Sam Silverman recalled, "Ross was classy. I figured Rocky was bound to get beat, and Ross was the kid to do it. I threw Rocky in to give this kid another win."
Rocky knocked Ross out in 1 minute and 3 seconds of the first round.
Carmine Vingo
Vingo had a 27-3 record. Rocky was 24-0. Vingo was 6'4" and came in at 187 pounds. Rocky weighed only 180 3/4 pounds. Vingo had reach, weight, and a slight edge in experiance. The fight was brutal, with both landing powerful punches, but in the 6th Rocky all but destroyed Vingo, knocking him out. Sadly, Vingo was badly hurt and had to be rushed to the hospital. He survived, but never fully recovered. from the beating.


Box Rec gives slightly different records for these guys but it is possible they couldn't verify all of these fights, or just different sources of info. Smiliar listings though.

Eddie Ross is listed as 15-0 with 13 kos.
Bobby Quinn as 8-0 5 kos
Vingo 16-1 7 kos, put into a coma
LaStarza 37-0, not the same after the stoppage.
Lowry was a highly experienced journeyman

Than there are bigger sluggers thrown in to probably see how Rocky would react to them. Wilson had the most passable record.

Jerry Jackson 254
Johnny Shkor 220 TKO 6
Bill Wilson 230 TKO 1

Layne 34-1, never been stopped. Had big wins over guys like Walcott. The Great White Hope, compared to Dempsey, favored over Rocky. Never the same after the big right caught him. Got a win over Charles though.

Matthews 81-3. Moving up in weight but got a good win over Layne. Got some losses toward the end of his career but was never stopped again after the Marciano fight.

Moore, undefeated for years. Moved up in weight but lost only twice more after Rocky, to Ali and Patterson respectively. Knocked out decent 200 lb heavies as well.

Charles and Walcott looking great against each other. On the decline but had many great wins before facing Rocky. They were both done after facing Rocky though. Walcott got killed dead by Rocky and looked terrifed in the rematch, already 39 he hung them up. Charles picked up a few solid wins but wasn't the same after he was stopped either.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=1K3TbEuf404

http://youtube.com/watch?v=I85_VBCVs_c

Rocky beat other prospects, beat peers, beat favorites, and caught a couple legends after one took the title and the other was still game. Rocky doesn't take claim for the Louis win but he wasn't bad off as some make out to be either.
49 killers????

WOW DUDE....WOW, do you even know the history of your favourite fighter???LMFAOOOOOOO

Bobby Quinn wasnt 15-1, with 14 kos. he had an 8-0 record. here are the records of fighters he beat: 6-10-0, 25-19-9, 0-0-0, 3-3-0, 5-6-0, 3-5-0, 31-11-3 LMFAOOOO ......A JOKE OF AN OPPONENT

eddie ross wasnt 26-0 (WTF where you get your info???) he was 15-1, 9 of those opponents never fought before, 1 had 1-12 record, 1 had 1-3...you get the picture

carmen wasnt 27-0, he was 16-1 almost every fighter he faced had more losses than wins

again im not gonna get into it with you

you look at numbers you dont look at opponents, and you add more wins to them to make rocky seem greater than he was

"Rocky couldnt carry my jock strap" Larry Holmes

i completely agree larry

i repeat this again Rocky marciano had the most padded record of all heavyweigths, including foreman's early opponents.

rocky marciano is nowhere near top 10 greatest heavyweights

Boogie Nights
06-05-2008, 01:51 AM
anyway dude you can relax with your comments cuz i prretty much know your agenda. it's good to be a fan but when you cant get past the bull**** it makes your post biased

i couldnt take you serious after you said lastarza would have ****ed up tyson

the dumbest comment i heard since i joined this site, in fact the dumbest comment ever. just as dumb as saying marciano would have dusted Klitschko LOL

it's fine really, i understand that you're still young and look at things through youthfull eyes and primitive view. i gurantee that once you grow up you'll be of different opinion

it's okay to have a hero while you're young, someone to look up to, but you'll get over it

trust me kid, i was in the same boat once

Thunder Lips
06-05-2008, 01:53 AM
"49 killers????

WOW DUDE....WOW, do you even know the history of your favourite fighter???LMFAOOOOOOO"

:nonono::nonono:

You are ****ing retarded, dude. I don't normally insult people on here but you had that coming. Sad thing is you probably don't even understand why I think your retarded, oh to be ignorant.

"you look at numbers you dont look at opponents, and you add more wins to them to make rocky seem greater than he was"

Those were the sources from Sam Silverman. I mentioned that box rec gives different listings in the post.......this is pointless, you are ****ing dense man.

Boogie Nights
06-05-2008, 01:57 AM
"49 killers????

WOW DUDE....WOW, do you even know the history of your favourite fighter???LMFAOOOOOOO"

:nonono::nonono:

You are ****ing retarded, dude. I don't normally insult people on here but you had that coming. Sad thing is you probably don't even understand why I think your retarded, oh to be ignorant.

"you look at numbers you dont look at opponents, and you add more wins to them to make rocky seem greater than he was"

Those were the sources from Sam Silverman. I mentioned that box rec gives different listings in the post.......this is pointless, you are ****ing dense man.
insulting someone is the first sign of weakness. you cant have a reasonable discussion so you resort to name calling.

once you leave high school you also need to look after your manners. go sit in the corner kid

Thunder Lips
06-05-2008, 02:02 AM
For the love of god stop posting!!!

One day you'll learn to read at an elementary level, look back at this, and realize what an ass you've made of yourself. At first this was amusing, but now I just feel really sad.

You can't be serious, please tell me this is a joke. Why god, why god!?!

Boogie Nights
06-05-2008, 02:06 AM
For the love of god stop posting!!!

One day you'll learn to read at an elementary level, look back at this, and realize what an ass you've made of yourself. At first this was amusing, but now I just feel really sad.

You can't be serious, please tell me this is a joke. Why god, why god!?!
marciano was bigger than Holyfield

lastarza would have ****ed up tyson

marciano would have dusted klitshcko

everything that you said. grow up kid, and everything would be put into prespective for you

as far as anger, it's totally normal. the hormones are kicking in, everyone goes through that cycle.

if you want pm, i know a really good encyclopedia for dealing with your emotions when you coming of age. Im serious, ill give you a link

Thunder Lips
06-05-2008, 02:16 AM
I'll give you hint,

Me: I don't think anyone is under the impression that Rocky easily walked through 49 killers.


Boxing Prospect: Daaaaaah...49 Killers!!! Dis kid is craziiiiie...

Boogie Nights
06-05-2008, 02:19 AM
I'll give you hint,

Me: I don't think anyone is under the impression that Rocky easily walked through 49 killers.


Boxing Prospect: Daaaaaah...49 Killers!!! Dis kid is craziiiiie... i hope that this response doesnt come off as an insult, but what is your gender thunder lips?

no sarcasm at all. are you a girl? there's actually a limited number of females ont his site. i just wanted to know. again no sarcasm

Boogie Nights
06-05-2008, 02:31 AM
I'll give you hint,

Me: I don't think anyone is under the impression that Rocky easily walked through 49 killers.


Boxing Prospect: Daaaaaah...49 Killers!!! Dis kid is craziiiiie... it's not even about that kitty. the fact that you named those opponents "killers" is laughable.

early marciano opponents were complete bums

louis, charles and walcott were killers. note the word "were" kitty. by the time rocky got to them they were old men

Thunder Lips
06-05-2008, 02:32 AM
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e389/JakeRaines/JohnHolmes.jpg


"Why hello...."

First off, I only go top. I'm also pretty big so that may be a problem for some guys, you also have to pay me. Short on cash, you can pay me half and just suck me off or something.

Boogie Nights
06-05-2008, 02:35 AM
easy there kitty

i've long speculated your sexual orientation. but now that's out of the way. you're a female, and i could tell by your user name "thunder lips"

i know you imagine rocky to be ver masculine, and you want to be in his arms.

it's not about rocky being a good fighter, you just wish you could be his wife

CounterPuncher
06-05-2008, 04:15 AM
What was prime Foreman, 224-230lbs? What was prime Rocky, 195lbs?

You'd expect the naturally bigger man to have a heavier punch. A more equal comparison is with other guys Rocky's size and who of them could punch like Rocky could?

It gets very hard comparing some heavyweights when there might be a 2-3 stone weight difference and a 5-7 inch height difference.

Boogie Nights
06-05-2008, 02:58 PM
What was prime Foreman, 224-230lbs? What was prime Rocky, 195lbs?

You'd expect the naturally bigger man to have a heavier punch. A more equal comparison is with other guys Rocky's size and who of them could punch like Rocky could?

It gets very hard comparing some heavyweights when there might be a 2-3 stone weight difference and a 5-7 inch height difference.
rocky never fought at 195 pounds

he weighed 190 or 2 pounds above that only 4 times in his 49-0 fights!!!!!!!

he came in a slow as 178 pounds quite a few times. That's only 3 pounds above the light heavyweight division

his prime weight was 185-87 pounds. to compare his punching power to guys above 210 pounds is borderline illegal and innapropriate

any unknown heavyweight out there would punch harder than rocky

dont listen to anything thuderlips is saying, she proved that she's a complete idiot, who is more in love with rocky as a man than as a fighter

thunder lips also said that rocky was bigger than holyfield....is she retarded?
she also said roland la starza would knock out prime mike tyson, and that marciano would dust klitschko

simply put, thunder lips needs years of medical attention. i hope her parents can provide that for her.

Thunder Lips
06-06-2008, 02:28 AM
What was prime Foreman, 224-230lbs? What was prime Rocky, 195lbs?

You'd expect the naturally bigger man to have a heavier punch. A more equal comparison is with other guys Rocky's size and who of them could punch like Rocky could?

It gets very hard comparing some heavyweights when there might be a 2-3 stone weight difference and a 5-7 inch height difference.

Earnie Shavers was only 6'0" and naturally hovered around 200 lbs when he was in reasonable shape and not overweight, by most accounts he hit harder than 215-220 Tyson and Foreman. Fraizer and Louis had fought below 200 lbs too. Accoring to Walcott, Marciano hit much harder than Louis.

Most of Marciano's power seems to actually come from his compact frame and use of leverage. A combination of natural talent and the technique that best brought it out.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=M9msELiZKyU&feature=related

This punch would have stopped anybody cold.


http://coxscorner.tripod.com/Images/marcianoko_walcott.jpg

Boogie Nights
06-06-2008, 02:34 AM
are you still trying to prove that rocky punched harder than most heavyweights.......LOL relax baby, you trying too hard

Flawless
06-14-2008, 07:38 AM
Can someone give me the link of Foreman on the bag.

them_apples
06-14-2008, 01:13 PM
Earnie Shavers was only 6'0" and naturally hovered around 200 lbs when he was in reasonable shape and not overweight, by most accounts he hit harder than 215-220 Tyson and Foreman. Fraizer and Louis had fought below 200 lbs too. Accoring to Walcott, Marciano hit much harder than Louis.

Once again a gross understatement, Earnie shavers didn't hover around 200 lbs he came to most of his fights 210+ even as high as 230 almost, you looked at shavers lowest weight he ever made in his career and called it his natural weight.

Archie Moore also said Patterson hit harder than Marciano, Marciano simply wore fighters down.

Marciano's natural weight was 186, Foreman's prime weight was probably 224

Boogie Nights
06-14-2008, 01:20 PM
Once again a gross understatement, Earnie shavers didn't hover around 200 lbs he came to most of his fights 210+ even as high as 230 almost, you looked at shavers lowest weight he ever made in his career and called it his natural weight.

Archie Moore also said Patterson hit harder than Marciano, Marciano simply wore fighters down.

Marciano's natural weight was 186, Foreman's prime weight was probably 224
how anyone can make a comparisson between rocky's and george's power is beyond me. i guess people forget to put on glasses to get the full picture. rocky punched hard, but he was nowhere near top 10 hardest punchers, and maybe not even top 20. marciano was a tiny heavyweight who scaled just 10 pounds above today's light heavywight limit.

personally i laugh at how anyone could even suggest that someone like rocky would walk through a lewis or a klitschko...:nonono:

them_apples
06-14-2008, 02:06 PM
How would anyone know if Marciano was a freak of punching power? he never tested himself against opponents bigger than him! Even guys smaller than him he had trouble with!

It doesn't make sense for him to have any p4p power at all.

Southpaw Stinger
06-14-2008, 07:01 PM
Can someone give me the link of Foreman on the bag.

See the first bit of this vid

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/WL7KnkWWXbQ&hl=en"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/WL7KnkWWXbQ&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Steak
06-14-2008, 09:03 PM
Earnie Shavers was only 6'0" and naturally hovered around 200 lbs when he was in reasonable shape and not overweight, by most accounts he hit harder than 215-220 Tyson and Foreman. Fraizer and Louis had fought below 200 lbs too. Accoring to Walcott, Marciano hit much harder than Louis.

Most of Marciano's power seems to actually come from his compact frame and use of leverage. A combination of natural talent and the technique that best brought it out.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=M9msELiZKyU&feature=related

This punch would have stopped anybody cold.


http://coxscorner.tripod.com/Images/marcianoko_walcott.jpgactually, that picture is NOT the punch that Marciano knocked Walcott out with. that punch came earlier in the fight. well, obviously it was earlier because Walcott was knocked out cold and theres no way that fight would continue after that, haha. but yea, Walcott was not knocked out by that punch, but it does look pretty bad, doesnt it?

for the most part, Rocky was the kind of guy who wore you down and finished you off with powerful punches. he didnt have the kind of power that Foreman did, imo. but the good thing about Rocky is that his power stayed with him for pretty much the whole fight, which you really couldnt say about Foreman.
but Marciano just did not have the kind of raw power Foreman did.

Thunder Lips
06-15-2008, 01:07 AM
Once again a gross understatement, Earnie shavers didn't hover around 200 lbs he came to most of his fights 210+ even as high as 230 almost, you looked at shavers lowest weight he ever made in his career and called it his natural weight.

Archie Moore also said Patterson hit harder than Marciano, Marciano simply wore fighters down.

Marciano's natural weight was 186, Foreman's prime weight was probably 224

Shavers didn't come in at 210 until the Quarry fight, the 47th of his career and a piss poor performance at that. He was consistently in the 200-205 range for a good chunk of his better conditioned early years. It is the only the sporadic last half of his career that we see a much heavier Shavers' flucutating often very dramatically between 210-220+; outside of maybe the Ali fight his stamina and conditioning was vey questionable during this period. Anyway, I seriously doubt that Shavers at 204 was somehow a lesser puncher than when he was at 220; the guy simply carried a huge punch.

I cannot agree that Foreman's prime weight was 224 as his only noteworthy win was the Norton massacre. He was at his best and most proven at or below 220 where he beat Frazier, Kirkman, fought 20 hard rounds against Peralta, and gave Ali hell. The majority of his fights above 220 during his first career was after the Rumble and he looked like crap in most of them, unless you count the Lye knockdown fest, Frazier II, and the Young schooling as his prime.


"How would anyone know if Marciano was a freak of punching power? he never tested himself against opponents bigger than him! Even guys smaller than him he had trouble with!"

At least 30+ of his 49 opponents outweighed him at the time of the fight while he was almost always at a reach and height disadvantage. Not sure where your coming from with this one.

Marciano did stop big 220+ lb men. Jerry Jackson had an 80 lb weight advantage at least and he got koed in the first. Shkor was 6'2" 220 and Wilson was a muscular 230.

"Shkor was big and strong, and his mauling tactics were worrisome to Marciano for four rounds. Johnny stayed at close quarters and leaned on his opponent, trying to tire him out. Even so, Rocky did enough punching to win the first three rounds and the fourth was even. Marciano began to find the range in the fifth and knocked Shkor down with a left hook and a right to the eye just before the bell. Marciano came out in the sixth throwing bombs and Shkor was down for three nine-counts before the fight was stopped."

"Bout was stopped because of a deep cut over Wilson's left eye. Marciano concentrated on using his left hook in the brief fight. The crowd of 3351 booed the quick ending because Wilson was a willing and strong opponent, but the fight had to be stopped because of the severity of Bill's injury"

-boxrec


Problem is that these two were capable but not great fighters, while Rocky wasn't really at his best at this point either. I believe the correct argument was that a peak Rocky's wasn't tested against 220+ lb Contenders or Champions.

Thunder Lips
06-15-2008, 01:14 AM
actually, that picture is NOT the punch that Marciano knocked Walcott out with. that punch came earlier in the fight. well, obviously it was earlier because Walcott was knocked out cold and theres no way that fight would continue after that, haha. but yea, Walcott was not knocked out by that punch, but it does look pretty bad, doesnt it?

for the most part, Rocky was the kind of guy who wore you down and finished you off with powerful punches. he didnt have the kind of power that Foreman did, imo. but the good thing about Rocky is that his power stayed with him for pretty much the whole fight, which you really couldnt say about Foreman.
but Marciano just did not have the kind of raw power Foreman did.

Thanks, your absolutely right. Walcott had some whiskers to walk away from that one. I also agree completely with your Foreman/Marciano comparision.

This is actually the Walcott knockout punch though it isn't at the moment of impact.

http://www.virginmedia.com/images/marciano-walcott.jpg

them_apples
06-16-2008, 08:36 PM
Shavers didn't come in at 210 until the Quarry fight, the 47th of his career and a piss poor performance at that. He was consistently in the 200-205 range for a good chunk of his better conditioned early years. It is the only the sporadic last half of his career that we see a much heavier Shavers' flucutating often very dramatically between 210-220+; outside of maybe the Ali fight his stamina and conditioning was vey questionable during this period. Anyway, I seriously doubt that Shavers at 204 was somehow a lesser puncher than when he was at 220; the guy simply carried a huge punch.

True, shavers was a lanky sorta guy.

I can't say any of those big guys Marciano fought were credible opponents, chances are they were out of shape/fat with records that bad.

Thunder Lips
06-19-2008, 12:38 AM
True, shavers was a lanky sorta guy.

I can't say any of those big guys Marciano fought were credible opponents, chances are they were out of shape/fat with records that bad.

They weren't fat and out of shape.

Skhor was a big and ripped US Navy product.

http://static.boxrec.com/wiki/5/59/Skhor.Johnny.jpg


"Big" Bill Wilson was large and muscular.

http://www.kappao.net/marciano/marcianowilson.GIF


Both guys were big strong punchers by most accounts and as evident by their career ko/win percentage. They just weren't great boxers, they lost many decisions but were reasonably durable having only been stopped a few times before facing Rocky. But yeah, they were really just tests for a still developing Marciano. Wilson did have a decent record though(42-11).

Though he only hovered around 200 lbs in his prime. Layne was a pretty strong muscular guy and a legit contender before and after he fought Rocky:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Yfdbn4CxY5k

Louis and ****ell were well over 200 but they aren't fair to judge by. Louis was still reasonably good but terribly faded, and Rocky wasn't in great shape for the ****ell fight though he still stopped him.

I agree that there are certainly questions that can be raised about Marciano's ability to handle the Super Heavies that have rose in recent time though oddly enough that can be said for many of the past greats. We can only look at we have and draw our own conclusions.

I personally just wouldn't be so quick to dismiss Rocky's punching power over his weight, I mean the smallish 185 lb Cooper nearly stopped the durable 6'3" 200+ lb Ali with the one flush shot he landed in one example off the top of my head. Anything can happen once were talking 180+ guys with big natural punching power and Rocky did have one punch power. Though Marciano's greatest edge was his stamina and workrate as myself and others mentioned.

Yogi
06-19-2008, 01:32 AM
actually, that picture is NOT the punch that Marciano knocked Walcott out with. that punch came earlier in the fight. well, obviously it was earlier because Walcott was knocked out cold and theres no way that fight would continue after that, haha. but yea, Walcott was not knocked out by that punch, but it does look pretty bad, doesnt it?

That famous photo of Marciano landing that right hand has actually been pinned down to have occured in the 7th round of the fight if anyone wants to look at the fight and check it out. It happens sometime that round when Walcott's back is to the camera, though.

Yogi
06-19-2008, 01:48 AM
Shavers' best fighting weight was at 210 and just a little below, and it was only after he hit his 30's did we start to see him get a little "softer" and start to gain weight.

Shavers also hit harder than Foreman too, of that I have little doubt, and I'll base that on basically every common opponent of their's stating that Shavers hit them the hardest of the two.

Some quotes;

"Oooh man, that man is always with me. He hit so hard, the HARDEST (emphasis taken directly from quote). I still feel his punches today." - Jimmy Young on Shavers

"Shavers hit me so hard it felt like needles were jabbing the back of my head. Without hesitation, Shavers was the hardest puncher I met." - Ron Lyle

"Shavers. No question. At least with Foreman I was able to get up. When Shavers hit me I went down and stayed down." - Ken Norton when asked who hit harder

"Lyle hit about the same as Foreman. Shavers hit harder than Lyle and Foreman put together." - Leroy Caldwell

Of course, Ali has on many occasions stated that the hardest punch he ever recieved was that right hand that rocked him back against the ropes in the second round of his fight with Shavers.

Southpaw Stinger
06-19-2008, 05:26 AM
Shavers' best fighting weight was at 210 and just a little below, and it was only after he hit his 30's did we start to see him get a little "softer" and start to gain weight.

Shavers also hit harder than Foreman too, of that I have little doubt, and I'll base that on basically every common opponent of their's stating that Shavers hit them the hardest of the two.

Some quotes;

"Oooh man, that man is always with me. He hit so hard, the HARDEST (emphasis taken directly from quote). I still feel his punches today." - Jimmy Young on Shavers

"Shavers hit me so hard it felt like needles were jabbing the back of my head. Without hesitation, Shavers was the hardest puncher I met." - Ron Lyle

"Shavers. No question. At least with Foreman I was able to get up. When Shavers hit me I went down and stayed down." - Ken Norton when asked who hit harder

"Lyle hit about the same as Foreman. Shavers hit harder than Lyle and Foreman put together." - Leroy Caldwell

Of course, Ali has on many occasions stated that the hardest punch he ever recieved was that right hand that rocked him back against the ropes in the second round of his fight with Shavers.

I've seen Shavers fight, Yogi. Was in Liverpool last year, the guy was half his age. More of a friendly exhibition than a fight and it ended in a draw I think but no one cared about the scoring. I could tell from the other guys expressions that Mr Shavers still has a good right. Now I'm just waiting to be ringside at an Ali fight, although the guys not responding to my letters...

Boogie Nights
06-19-2008, 07:21 PM
Shavers' best fighting weight was at 210 and just a little below, and it was only after he hit his 30's did we start to see him get a little "softer" and start to gain weight.

Shavers also hit harder than Foreman too, of that I have little doubt, and I'll base that on basically every common opponent of their's stating that Shavers hit them the hardest of the two.

Some quotes;

"Oooh man, that man is always with me. He hit so hard, the HARDEST (emphasis taken directly from quote). I still feel his punches today." - Jimmy Young on Shavers

"Shavers hit me so hard it felt like needles were jabbing the back of my head. Without hesitation, Shavers was the hardest puncher I met." - Ron Lyle

"Shavers. No question. At least with Foreman I was able to get up. When Shavers hit me I went down and stayed down." - Ken Norton when asked who hit harder

"Lyle hit about the same as Foreman. Shavers hit harder than Lyle and Foreman put together." - Leroy Caldwell

Of course, Ali has on many occasions stated that the hardest punch he ever recieved was that right hand that rocked him back against the ropes in the second round of his fight with Shavers. Wow, yogi thanks for this, some interesting quotes here. i am now starting to change my mind about foreman being the harder puncher of the two. i always thought george was the hardest puncher, and then i always ranked earnie after him

funny thing about that is that i always knew shavers punched like a mule, there's no question. but the funny thing is, when shavers punched, and the impact was obvious, it never looked like he really put that much force into it, at least to me. when foreman punched you could see him load up and it looked like he was gonna take the house down with one of his hooks. maybe it looked that way because george was such a looping puncher in contrast, and threw much wider haymakers, that it looked like the force of his punch was more powerful.

but when they were throwing shots it always looked like foreman was really about to tackle you. it's funny that way. plus foreman was much bigger than earnie, 6'3 220-225, earnie 6'' even, 205-210. i dont know man.

ben41193
06-23-2008, 12:19 AM
Intresting point, noone has brought up yet, DID LISTON hit harder than marciano?

them_apples
06-24-2008, 03:28 PM
Intresting point, noone has brought up yet, DID LISTON hit harder than marciano?


I would say so, although because of Liston's lack of speed he wasn't much of a KO artist.

joseph5620
07-09-2008, 05:35 PM
I did see Cooney(In Legendary Nights) Hitting something really weird, like a brick wall or something(It was a Huge, White, wall thing).

I have heard that they showed Shavers on the punching bag on the Discovery channel, where they said that his power was the equivelant of a 32mm cannon on a battleship!

But either way Cooney is either #2, or #1 hardest hitter, just look what happened to Norton!

Cooney had no right hand so I don't know how he got into this discussion. Foreman and Shavers could take you out with either hand. Sonny Liston, Louis, Marciano, Tyson, Lennox Lewis..There are too mnay to name who I would pick over Cooney. who was a one handed fighter and his hook was not as good as Joe Frazier's.

Stormin' Norman
07-20-2008, 04:15 PM
Hardest punchers;

1. Foreman
2. Shavers
3. Marciano


Ain't talking pound for pound. Foreman and shavers hit harder than Marciano. Very rarely did Marciano fight any good fighter over 200lbs. A lot of his ko's were against light heavyweight bums and washed up champions. It took him about 14 rounds to KO light heavy Archire Moore, and Archie was whupping Marciano up to that point.

Foreman KO'd great (and actual) heavyweights in early rounds. In over 4 years nobody could even get past the first few rounds with Foreman. Frazier and Norton were both dispatched within the first 2 rounds!

Foreman KO'd real heavyweights in rounds 1 -2 in most of his fights. Name anyone who went 15 rounds with Foreman in his prime? Even when he was an old man Foreman was knocking the young top contenders out and the champ in 1994.

Marciano was often lucky with punchers and took countless rounds of beatings in order to land one KO punch.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y124/Seluces/foremankillsfrazier.jpg

Foreman hit harder!


i agree 100%%