View Full Version : Who had the best chance to ko george chuvalo?


Dempsey 1919
01-09-2006, 11:58 AM
who do you think had the best chance knock out, or even knock down george chuvalo?

http://www.queensjournal.ca/vol129/issue40/sports/story3_photo.jpg

Yogi
01-09-2006, 12:55 PM
Jack Renault > George Chuvalo

Dempsey 1919
01-09-2006, 01:03 PM
Jack Renault > George Chuvalo

who's that?

Skydog
01-09-2006, 01:17 PM
I would say Shavers or Cooney would have the best chance to knockdown Chuvalo. No man could stay up taking shots to the head from those 2, and Chuvalo had a terrible defense and got whacked around easily by people.

Yogi
01-09-2006, 02:33 PM
who's that?

Jack Renault was a Canadian Heavyweight from the 1920's, who also happened to be one of the best in the division for much of that decade.

Here's an article on Renault, which was first published in the July 1923 issue of The Ring;


'No Heavyweight prospect in the past few years has shown more promise than Leo Flynn's protege, Jack Renault, Canadian Heavyweight Champion. As a rule heavyweights reach a certain standing in their class and come to a standstill, never improving their form. In most cases, the first time they meet a good man with a "kick" it spells finis for them. And like the great Dempsey, when a heavyweight looks like a winner it is the hardest thing in the world to get matches for him, especially with men the type of the Renault type. That is the case of Jack Renault, who recently won Fred Fulton at the big Milk Fund Show in New York.

Renault proved his class by stopping the much touted George Godfrey. Jack Kearns, Jim Doughtery and other good judges of the boxing game claimed befoe than contest that Godfrey was a better man than Harry Wills, who refused a guarantee of $10,000 from Tex Rickard to meet him. Harry stepped out of the match when Leo Flynn was offered it for Renault he said, "Why not, bring him on."

Renault plastered the big black from pillar to post, outboxing, outhitting and out-generaling Godfrey. He finally forced him to take the full count.

Since then Renault has been able to get into only one match and it was only because Fred Fulton recieved $5,000 that he accepted trems to meet the "Canadian Cannonball". Fred looked like a winner in the first round of that bout, but when he found out Jack was a sticker, could take it and come back, he took it on the "heel and toe". Just when Renault had him reeling from rights and lefts, he lost the bout on a foul.

Luis Firpo, the big Argentinian fighter who is being touted as a worthy opponent for Dempsey, threatened to leave the country when the matchmaker of the Milk Fund insisted that he meet Renault. Willard is repeatedly dodging Renault and unlike the present white heavyweights today Renault doesn't draw the colour line. He is known in the East as the destroyer of black hopes, having knocked out all of the colored heavyweights, with the exception of Harry Wills, who he is open to meet at any time.

In his last starts he has stopped Fred Fulton, Tom Cowler, Silent Puryear, Battling McCreery, Joe McCann, Joe Lohman and also the great George Godfrey.

Renault is open to box anybody in the world, black or white, and doesn't require the clubhouse to step in.

Renault is a more logical contender for Dempsey's title than Tom Gibbons. With proper development under the able tutelage of Leo Flynn, Jack is certain to command world-wide attention. Renault served in the Canadian Northwest Mounted Police as a Sargeant Major and the slogin of this historic organization, "Get your Man" is to be held by Renault for his fighting career and he has never yet failed to deliver.'

Dempsey 1919
01-09-2006, 02:35 PM
Jack Renault was a Canadian Heavyweight from the 1920's, who also happened to be one of the best in the division for much of that decade.

Here's an article on Renault, which was first published in the July 1923 issue of The Ring;


'No Heavyweight prospect in the past few years has shown more promise than Leo Flynn's protege, Jack Renault, Canadian Heavyweight Champion. As a rule heavyweights reach a certain standing in their class and come to a standstill, never improving their form. In most cases, the first time they meet a good man with a "kick" it spells finis for them. And like the great Dempsey, when a heavyweight looks like a winner it is the hardest thing in the world to get matches for him, especially with men the type of the Renault type. That is the case of Jack Renault, who recently won Fred Fulton at the big Milk Fund Show in New York.

Renault proved his class by stopping the much touted George Godfrey. Jack Kearns, Jim Doughtery and other good judges of the boxing game claimed befoe than contest that Godfrey was a better man than Harry Wills, who refused a guarantee of $10,000 from Tex Rickard to meet him. Harry stepped out of the match when Leo Flynn was offered it for Renault he said, "Why not, bring him on."

Renault plastered the big black from pillar to post, outboxing, outhitting and out-generaling Godfrey. He finally forced him to take the full count.

Since then Renault has been able to get into only one match and it was only because Fred Fulton recieved $5,000 that he accepted trems to meet the "Canadian Cannonball". Fred looked like a winner in the first round of that bout, but when he found out Jack was a sticker, could take it and come back, he took it on the "heel and toe". Just when Renault had him reeling from rights and lefts, he lost the bout on a foul.

Luis Firpo, the big Argentinian fighter who is being touted as a worthy opponent for Dempsey, threatened to leave the country when the matchmaker of the Milk Fund insisted that he meet Renault. Willard is repeatedly dodging Renault and unlike the present white heavyweights today Renault doesn't draw the colour line. He is known in the East as the destroyer of black hopes, having knocked out all of the colored heavyweights, with the exception of Harry Wills, who he is open to meet at any time.

In his last starts he has stopped Fred Fulton, Tom Cowler, Silent Puryear, Battling McCreery, Joe McCann, Joe Lohman and also the great George Godfrey.

Renault is open to box anybody in the world, black or white, and doesn't require the clubhouse to step in.

Renault is a more logical contender for Dempsey's title than Tom Gibbons. With proper development under the able tutelage of Leo Flynn, Jack is certain to command world-wide attention. Renault served in the Canadian Northwest Mounted Police as a Sargeant Major and the slogin of this historic organization, "Get your Man" is to be held by Renault for his fighting career and he has never yet failed to deliver.'

didi he have a chin like chuvalo?

Yogi
01-09-2006, 03:01 PM
didi he have a chin like chuvalo?

I only see a couple of stoppage losses on his record which consists of well over 100 pro fights, and one of those came at the very end of his career (second to last fight) to Young Stribling...Here's a small quote from Larry "Cap" Roberts' (boxing historian up here in Canada) article on Renault, which mentions Renault's chin;

"Renault had a granite chin, a snapping left jab and a beauty of a right that put many opponents to sleep."

LondonRingRules
01-09-2006, 03:52 PM
Big George already stopped George. Woulda KOed him but the ref stopped it because George was starting to get busted up so bad.

Dempsey 1919
01-09-2006, 04:25 PM
Big George already stopped George. Woulda KOed him but the ref stopped it because George was starting to get busted up so bad.

chuvalo said george didn't really hurt him that much, cause he only hit hit with one good shot, cause george was swinging so wildly. it looked worse than it was, according to chuvalo.

Yogi
01-09-2006, 04:41 PM
Crikey, I'm almost sick to death of constantly hearing about Chuvalo by the nuthugging boxing press we have up here. Make no mistake...I like Chuvalo (his personality and watching him fight), and have a tremendous amount of respect for him for what he did in his boxing career and especially the tragedies he's had to endure. It's just guys like Russ Anber tick me off sometimes with their "Oh no question, Chuvalo is easily Canada's greatest Heavyweight of all-time" comments and those that are similiar...Bah!

Dempsey 1919
01-09-2006, 05:01 PM
Crikey, I'm almost sick to death of constantly hearing about Chuvalo by the nuthugging boxing press we have up here. Make no mistake...I like Chuvalo (his personality and watching him fight), and have a tremendous amount of respect for him for what he did in his boxing career and especially the tragedies he's had to endure. It's just guys like Russ Anber tick me off sometimes with their "Oh no question, Chuvalo is easily Canada's greatest Heavyweight of all-time" comments and those that are similiar...Bah!

but you can't argue he has the best chin of all time!

Yogi
01-09-2006, 05:52 PM
but you can't argue he has the best chin of all time!

If I felt like arguing that, sure I could. There's plenty of other fighters who showed their chins were just as good, if not better than Chuvalo's (like Hagler). His chin isn't so far ahead of everybody else's and nobody can say that he gets the distinction hands down...Unless of course they're pushing an agenda, much like you do with Ali and everything related to him.

blockhead
01-09-2006, 07:37 PM
but you can't argue he has the best chin of all time!
in the heavyweight division yes. but that does not equal all time.

hellfire508
01-09-2006, 08:25 PM
Joe Louis. Speed, power and combinations - but I wouldn't bet on it happening.

hellfire508
01-09-2006, 08:34 PM
If I felt like arguing that, sure I could. There's plenty of other fighters who showed their chins were just as good, if not better than Chuvalo's (like Hagler). His chin isn't so far ahead of everybody else's and nobody can say that he gets the distinction hands down...Unless of course they're pushing an agenda, much like you do with Ali and everything related to him.

Chuvalo, McCall, Cobb...are probably on par with each other.

Then there is Hagler, Lamotta etc. in the lower divisions. But we can't say they have AS good a chin as the heavies, cos if Foreman or Shavers hit on of them - lights out. P4P, they are as good though.

Dynamite76
01-12-2006, 02:00 PM
Someone once said that Bonavena really floored him twice in their fight but don't know more details.

Cereal
01-23-2006, 10:11 AM
pacquaio, definitely

Dempsey 1919
01-23-2006, 01:40 PM
in the heavyweight division yes. but that does not equal all time.

p4p, maybe not. but nobody in history has the chin that chuvalo has. foreman, frazier, ali, quarry, williams, bonavena, etc, some of the hardest, and most effective hitters in history tried to floor him and george did not go down, so that's saying something.

Dynamite76
03-03-2008, 10:39 AM
Maybe Mac Foster could've floored Chuvalo.

duffgun
03-05-2008, 09:08 AM
Maybe Mac Foster could've floored Chuvalo.

Chuvalo had a great chin but it was not that much better than mccall's.

Brockton Lip
03-05-2008, 10:46 AM
I'd say Louis, Marciano, and Shavers.

sleazyfellow
03-06-2008, 03:16 PM
Shavers and Foreman could do it Im sure.

Another would be tyson.

Karlos81
03-06-2008, 04:05 PM
He said he was most beat up after the first Ali fight and in the 13-14th rds said was staggered and stunned.

duffgun
03-06-2008, 05:21 PM
I think tyson might be able to ko him late. Tyson has power but he also has speed and the punch that hurts you is the one you don't see.

Brunswick Assassin
03-08-2008, 07:01 PM
Georgie's head's made of Rock!

mcentepede
03-22-2008, 05:38 PM
According to Chuvalo in an interview a few years back, he said Ali was the best fighter he fought. Also, Chuvalo mentioned his stoppage losses to Foreman and Frazier...according to Chuvalo, the ref stopped the Foreman fight too early, he wasn`t that hurt. But, this one is funny...Frazier unleashed his left hook on Chuvalo in some round and the vision in that eye was blurry for the rest of the fight. After the fight was stopped and Chuvalo was in the hospital, the doctor confirmed that Frazier cracked Chuvalo`s cornea and dislodged his eye socket...ouch. Chuvalo needed some kind of eye surgery afterwards. Frazier left hook=destruction, Foreman right hand=I see dead people, Shavers right hand=zzzzz

Ziggy Stardust
03-22-2008, 11:53 PM
I think tyson might be able to ko him late. Tyson has power but he also has speed and the punch that hurts you is the one you don't see.

The only problem with that is Tyson, like the young Foreman, didn't carry his speed and power into the late rounds. If he didn't get you inside of six he probably wasn't going to get you at all. The thing is Tyson would probably build up such a lead on the cards in those first six that his opponent was probably NOT going to win a decision, even if he was in any kind condition to do anything other than survive the distance.

Poet

Sweet Pete
03-23-2008, 12:20 AM
He was stopped on a few occasions, but as far as legitimately KO'ing or KD'ing him, I don't think we can really say that about anyone, considering the beating he took from Foreman. Some guys are just freaks. Guys like Chuvalo, McCall, LaMotta, McCullough, Hagler, etc.

Sweet Pete
03-23-2008, 12:21 AM
Shavers and Foreman could do it Im sure.

Another would be tyson.So why didn't Foreman when they fought?

sleazyfellow
03-25-2008, 04:14 AM
So why didn't Foreman when they fought?

umm because the fight was stopped...when they stop fights it goes down as a KO but it wasnt really a KO as we know. I say the older foreman would of had the better chance to KO chuvalo cause he was more sneaky with that right.

Ziggy Stardust
03-25-2008, 04:30 PM
umm because the fight was stopped...when they stop fights it goes down as a KO but it wasnt really a KO as we know. I say the older foreman would of had the better chance to KO chuvalo cause he was more sneaky with that right.

There are just some chins that aren't going to be KOed. Look at Tex Cobb (I know he's ugly but look anyway). If Shavers' sledgehammers weren't going to put his lights out no one's would. There's an old maxin in boxing: A great chin beats a great punch. I've seen it play out over and over again through the years.

Poet

Ryn0
03-26-2008, 10:23 AM
I would say Shavers or Cooney would have the best chance to knockdown Chuvalo. No man could stay up taking shots to the head from those 2, and Chuvalo had a terrible defense and got whacked around easily by people.
Holmes got up from a massive bomb from Shavers.

Ziggy Stardust
03-26-2008, 01:06 PM
Holmes got up from a massive bomb from Shavers.

Boy did he ever! That told me all I needed to know about Larry's chin. It was also one hell of a fight; one of my all-time favorites to watch.

Poet

mcentepede
04-08-2008, 05:47 PM
We did this already...Holmes is way under-rated. Many of the guys he beat (Shavers, Norton, Witherspoon, Snipes, Cooney, Tex Cobb...) would easily win an alphabet belt by today's standards, and had the best heavyweight jab.

Mr. Ryan
04-08-2008, 08:59 PM
We did this already...Holmes is way under-rated. Many of the guys he beat (Shavers, Norton, Witherspoon, Snipes, Cooney, Tex Cobb...) would easily win an alphabet belt by today's standards, and had the best heavyweight jab.

Tex Cobb would be the Timor Hoffman of today.

randy johnson
04-21-2008, 06:15 AM
You know both Foreman and Frazier stopped him right?They didnt knock him down because the ref stopped it.And just because Chuvalo said Foreman only hit him with one good punch doesn't mean that was true you know.Chuvalo is punch drunk now.He also said Foreman never knocked out fighters taller than himself and then he used Gregoria Peralta as a example (Peralta was shorter than Foreman and Foreman did knock him out in their second fight).He also said wasn't a hard puncher because Axel Shultz went the distance with a 46 year old Foreman (George Chuvalo in his prime couldn't beat Shultz)Basically he was saying since Foreman didnt knock out 100 percent of this opponents it ment he couldn't punch with is absurd but anyway.
Countless fighters could knock Chuvalo down if the ref wouldn't jump in to save him.Tyson,Foreman,Frazier,Shavers,Tua,Ibeabuchi ect ect ect.You know what a good chin means?It means you can take devastating punches and not be stopped.Not that you take some good punches and stay on your feat but you are so badly injured the ref saves you from going down.

hemichromis
04-21-2008, 05:52 PM
i remember hearing a commentator say 'George Chuvalo doesnt get knocked out till his trainer says he is!' he tok some huge punched from foreman and just stared at him!

hemichromis
04-21-2008, 05:53 PM
You know both Foreman and Frazier stopped him right?They didnt knock him down because the ref stopped it.And just because Chuvalo said Foreman only hit him with one good punch doesn't mean that was true you know.Chuvalo is punch drunk now.He also said Foreman never knocked out fighters taller than himself and then he used Gregoria Peralta as a example (Peralta was shorter than Foreman and Foreman did knock him out in their second fight).He also said wasn't a hard puncher because Axel Shultz went the distance with a 46 year old Foreman (George Chuvalo in his prime couldn't beat Shultz)Basically he was saying since Foreman didnt knock out 100 percent of this opponents it ment he couldn't punch with is absurd but anyway.
Countless fighters could knock Chuvalo down if the ref wouldn't jump in to save him.Tyson,Foreman,Frazier,Shavers,Tua,Ibeabuchi ect ect ect.You know what a good chin means?It means you can take devastating punches and not be stopped.Not that you take some good punches and stay on your feat but you are so badly injured the ref saves you from going down.

eentually they certainly could, after a few punches he turned into a punching bag!

Ziggy Stardust
04-23-2008, 06:09 PM
You know both Foreman and Frazier stopped him right?They didnt knock him down because the ref stopped it.And just because Chuvalo said Foreman only hit him with one good punch doesn't mean that was true you know.Chuvalo is punch drunk now.He also said Foreman never knocked out fighters taller than himself and then he used Gregoria Peralta as a example (Peralta was shorter than Foreman and Foreman did knock him out in their second fight).He also said wasn't a hard puncher because Axel Shultz went the distance with a 46 year old Foreman (George Chuvalo in his prime couldn't beat Shultz)Basically he was saying since Foreman didnt knock out 100 percent of this opponents it ment he couldn't punch with is absurd but anyway.
Countless fighters could knock Chuvalo down if the ref wouldn't jump in to save him.Tyson,Foreman,Frazier,Shavers,Tua,Ibeabuchi ect ect ect.You know what a good chin means?It means you can take devastating punches and not be stopped.Not that you take some good punches and stay on your feat but you are so badly injured the ref saves you from going down.

I suppose that means Jake LaMotta's chin sucked since Robinson stopped him but didn't put him down?

Poet

randy johnson
05-01-2008, 03:25 AM
I suppose that means Jake LaMotta's chin sucked since Robinson stopped him but didn't put him down?


Lol who was Ray Robinson?I guy who avoided fighting any black fighter he knew he couldn't beat not to mention the guy was probably a natural jr welterweight.How many guys like Julian Jackson,Nigel Benn,Gerald Mcclellan did Lamotta fight?None that is how many he fought bum after bum after in a era of boxing where the mafia controlled boxing.Countless white and black guys from today would of knocked the crap out of that woman beating pedophile Lamotta.
As i said you have to fight guys who can bang and go the distance with them to have a great chin.Not get beat so badly the ref saves you but you don't go down.

Ziggy Stardust
05-01-2008, 10:49 AM
I suppose that means Jake LaMotta's chin sucked since Robinson stopped him but didn't put him down?


Lol who was Ray Robinson?I guy who avoided fighting any black fighter he knew he couldn't beat not to mention the guy was probably a natural jr welterweight.How many guys like Julian Jackson,Nigel Benn,Gerald Mcclellan did Lamotta fight?None that is how many he fought bum after bum after in a era of boxing where the mafia controlled boxing.Countless white and black guys from today would of knocked the crap out of that woman beating pedophile Lamotta.
As i said you have to fight guys who can bang and go the distance with them to have a great chin.Not get beat so badly the ref saves you but you don't go down.

Don't you just LOVE the total lack of respect these brainless nitwits have for the old-time greats?

Poet