View Full Version : what's up with this hatred of fighters?


Dempsey 1919
12-30-2005, 04:37 PM
some people here really get on certain fighters. i don't get it, hating someone that you don't even know, that's hard to undestand. alot of people here get on tyson alot, saying he beat and raped women and all that and that he's a bum, but he definetely is a top ten hw based on his early career alone. and since he still maintains his innocense, some who don't know the circumstances concerning the allegations should at least give him the benefit of the doubt. alot of other fighters are trampled on as well. i don't really hate or dislike any fighters, except the racist ones from before the 1920s, but other than that, that's it. sometimes it gets out of hand, like if they don't like them, they will try to downgrade their boxing careers when that has nothing to do with what kind of personality they have, IMO :cool: !

Brassangel
12-30-2005, 05:55 PM
I agree with you. There is a definite sense of fanboy hatred all over the history forums. People will usually allow their love of their heroes supercede what's in front of them. While this is a site designed for speculation, sometimes it gets out of hand.

On a side note about Mike Tyson, it's interesting to know that he has honorably plead guilty to all charges he's faced, except the rape charges. He holds to this day that she consented. While that's a topic for another place and time, I thought it should be noted. Furthermore, people think that his frustration got to him so thickly in every match that his goal was to bite people or give up. Obviously, this happened very far and few between when you catalog his career. While it's true that his era wasn't filled with giant names, it was filled with a new breed of bigger, stronger, faster fighters, who could all take it to each other. Mike Tyson just so happened to emerge as something special during that time--as the youngest heavyweight champion in history, mind you--and that warrants him a top 10 nod from this voter.

Back on topic, there is a lot of hatred going around. It's as though people take it personal when their favorite boxer is remotely down-talked in any way.

Dempsey1238
12-30-2005, 07:42 PM
yeah Tyson is a target, so is Marciano so some extant.
of couse there is the race thing with Sullivan, Jeffies, and Corbett(2 a extant, he did face a PRIME Peter Jackson, and even offer him a rematch for the title, Corbett wanted it in America, and Jackson wanted it in England, so it fell though.)

cple
12-30-2005, 10:09 PM
I think "hatred" is a powerful and overexaggerating word. Most posters have fighters that they dislike, but i doubt it is as serious as deep-seeded hate. However, i believe most perceived bashing of a fighter is directly related to the praise of that fighter. Take Tyson for example. In many posts regarding Tyson, there are as many "nuthugger" replies as there are "hater" replies. I know it certainly rubs me the wrong way when posters claim Tyson to be the greatest of all-time and that he could've beaten any heavyweight in history. So of course, i'm going to reply back with a post negating such claims, making it look like i'm simply bashing Tyson.

Brassangel
12-31-2005, 12:57 AM
And thus, like many threads on this forum, Mike Tyson becomes the example of many a post. He wasn't the greatest, but he's a top 10'er given his resume, period.

Back on track; maybe hatred is a strong term. The approaches taken by many posters on this website are strong and very hostile themselves. Maybe it's not a deep-seeded hatred, but the words are hateful. People tend to attack others personally instead of sticking to the topic at hand. Maybe Butterfly was touching on instances such as this.

supaduck
12-31-2005, 02:23 PM
Mike Tyson, whether it be about how good or bad he was, is one of the most talked about fighters in the world. So naturally people think he's overrated, despite the fact that people usually only state facts. The nuthuggers are what really grinds people's balls.

Yogi
12-31-2005, 02:28 PM
Considering that it seems like the thread starter hates on Marciano every chance he gets, isn't this a case of the pot calling the kettle black?

supaduck
12-31-2005, 02:57 PM
Erm... yeah. That's one way of putting it :o

Dempsey 1919
12-31-2005, 05:51 PM
Considering that it seems like the thread starter hates on Marciano every chance he gets, isn't this a case of the pot calling the kettle black?

i hate on marciano, give me one instance of that.

Yogi
12-31-2005, 06:35 PM
i hate on marciano, give me one instance of that.

One instance?

Well, there was that one time when you complimented that idiot up in NSB for coming up with the 'Rocky Sloppiano' name ("nice nickname. good karma for you").

There's also the numerous times you've incorrectly stated that Marciano was afraid of Floyd Patterson, which I believe you stated was an opinion based only on watching a show from someone who you recently referred to as a "retard" (although Sugar isn't that bad, he doesn't have a very good reputation amongst boxing historians. He's always been more of a writer than historian and boxing isn't even his favourite sport...baseball is, and boxing is even behind pro wrestling in terms of his own perosnal interests).

Those are a couple of instances that I can recall off-hand, but I'm sure I could find more if I looked back through your posts.

supaduck
12-31-2005, 06:44 PM
The only problem I have is with posters who hate on Ali. They post such ridiculous things as "Ali was a loudmouthed draft dodger who was too afraid to go to war!"

Dempsey 1919
12-31-2005, 06:59 PM
One instance?

Well, there was that one time when you complimented that idiot up in NSB for coming up with the 'Rocky Sloppiano' name ("nice nickname. good karma for you").

There's also the numerous times you've incorrectly stated that Marciano was afraid of Floyd Patterson, which I believe you stated was an opinion based only on watching a show from someone who you recently referred to as a "retard" (although Sugar isn't that bad, he doesn't have a very good reputation amongst boxing historians. He's always been more of a writer than historian and boxing isn't even his favourite sport...baseball is, and boxing is even behind pro wrestling in terms of his own perosnal interests).

Those are a couple of instances that I can recall off-hand, but I'm sure I could find more if I looked back through your posts.

i complimented mike tyson jr. cause i thought it was funny, that doesn't prove that i hate on marciano. and based on what sugar said it seems that marciano wanted to fight ingemmar johannson but not patterson. that is the way it appears to me.

all this doesn't prove that i hate on marciano. i do believe he's overrated, but i don't think he was a complete bum. if someone thinking a fighter is overrated means that he/she hates on him, then probably everyone on this forum hates on at least one fighter. :rolleyes:

Dempsey 1919
12-31-2005, 07:01 PM
The only problem I have is with posters who hate on Ali. They post such ridiculous things as "Ali was a loudmouthed draft dodger who was too afraid to go to war!"

yeah, especially when he knew he wasn't going to actually do combat. if anything, one would be scared into going under those circumstances since they would be facing jail time if they didn't.

supaduck
12-31-2005, 07:05 PM
Yeah, so their argument is immediately pointless. They just want to find a way to make Ali look bad, because they can't accept that he's the greatest heavyweight (and possibly boxer).

Dempsey 1919
12-31-2005, 07:08 PM
Yeah, so their argument is immediately pointless. They just want to find a way to make Ali look bad, because they can't accept that he's the greatest heavyweight (and possibly boxer).

have a 1/4mil. points on me, and some good k too!

Yogi
12-31-2005, 07:57 PM
i complimented mike tyson jr. cause i thought it was funny, that doesn't prove that i hate on marciano. and based on what sugar said it seems that marciano wanted to fight ingemmar johannson but not patterson. that is the way it appears to me.

all this doesn't prove that i hate on marciano. i do believe he's overrated, but i don't think he was a complete bum. if someone thinking a fighter is overrated means that he/she hates on him, then probably everyone on this forum hates on at least one fighter. :rolleyes:

Ok, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on Marciano then and take back what I said earlier in the thread, although I do wish you'd look into the whole Marciano/Johansson thing a little bit more and quit with the assumptions. If you were to do so, you should find out that Marciano didn't think much of Johansson as a person and he wasn't the only one of the two who wanted the fight. Marciano did not like Johansson, who was the total opposite of what Rocky was...Ingemar had a very ****y & arrogant attitude and was totally lackadaisical in training ("Johansson led a playboy existence even when training for major fights, and it was the norm for him to go nightclubbing & dancing into the early hours during the build-ups for title fights."). Johansson was the total opposite of what Marciano, as Rocky was the relatively quiet & humble type, whose dedication and the amount of time put into training for his fights was about as much as any fighter in history, if not more-so. You had Marciano's dislike for Johansson, the fact that both wanted it (Johannson tried to get out of the rematch clause with Patterson), and also the patriotic part of it...Marciano wanted to bring the title home to the USA.

Take that all in, Buuterfly, and then look at the Marciano/Patterson situation...Patterson's manager, Cus D'Amato didn't want any part of any fighter who was associated with the IBC (and he made it very clear long before 1959), which Marciano was very closely associated with them, so there's that part of the whole situation. There's also plenty of quotes from Marciano in describing Patterson, and he speaks very highly of Floyd as a person...Unlike what he felt about Ingemar Johansson, he actually liked Floyd Patterson and thought he was quite the "class" individual.

Anyways, I'm babbling here, so I'll shorten this up and allow you to look this stuff & other particulars up for yourself. But just remember, just because a fighter doesn't have so-and-so on his record/resume doesn't mean he was "scared" or "afraid" of said fighter, and you shouldn't just assume those things right away. If you look into things a little more you'll be sure to find some reason(s) why a particular fight didn't take place, or in this case, one that was talked about instead of another...Yes, sometimes a fighter wants to fight someone for the simple fact that he didn't like him and his ways.

Dempsey 1919
12-31-2005, 08:03 PM
Ok, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on Marciano then and take back what I said earlier in the thread, although I do wish you'd look into the whole Marciano/Johansson thing a little bit more and quit with the assumptions. If you were to do so, you should find out that Marciano didn't think much of Johansson as a person and he wasn't the only one of the two who wanted the fight. Marciano did not like Johansson, who was the total opposite of what Rocky was...Ingemar had a very ****y & arrogant attitude and was totally lackadaisical in training ("Johansson led a playboy existence even when training for major fights, and it was the norm for him to go nightclubbing & dancing into the early hours during the build-ups for title fights."). Johansson was the total opposite of what Marciano, as Rocky was the relatively quiet & humble type, whose dedication and the amount of time put into training for his fights was about as much as any fighter in history, if not more-so. You had Marciano's dislike for Johansson, the fact that both wanted it (Johannson tried to get out of the rematch clause with Patterson), and also the patriotic part of it...Marciano wanted to bring the title home to the USA.

Take that all in, Buuterfly, and then look at the Marciano/Patterson situation...Patterson's manager, Cus D'Amato didn't want any part of any fighter who was associated with the IBC (and he made it very clear long before 1959), which Marciano was very closely associated with them, so there's that part of the whole situation. There's also plenty of quotes from Marciano in describing Patterson, and he speaks very highly of Floyd as a person...Unlike what he felt about Ingemar Johansson, he actually liked Floyd Patterson and thought he was quite the "class" individual.

Anyways, I'm babbling here, so I'll shorten this up and allow you to look this stuff & other particulars up for yourself. But just remember, just because a fighter doesn't have so-and-so on his record/resume doesn't mean he was "scared" or "afraid" of said fighter, and you shouldn't just assume those things right away. If you look into things a little more you'll be sure to find some reason(s) why a particular fight didn't take place, or in this case, one that was talked about instead of another...Yes, sometimes a fighter wants to fight someone for the simple fact that he didn't like him and his ways.

alright, well maybe your right.

Yogi
12-31-2005, 08:11 PM
alright, well maybe your right.

Ah, so does this mean I can stop bringing up the MUCH more concrete Ali/Bobick situation nearly every time you say Marciano was afraid of Patterson?

Dempsey 1919
12-31-2005, 08:12 PM
Ah, so does this mean I can stop bringing up the MUCH more concrete Ali/Bobick situation nearly every time you say Marciano was afraid of Patterson?

what concrete situation? explain that please?

Yogi
12-31-2005, 08:22 PM
what concrete situation? explain that please?

I touched on it on page eight of the "Rocky Sloppiano" thread that the idiot started up in NSB a few days ago (that thread's on the second page, I believe), and as I stated in that post up there, you can find the info on that whole Ali/Bobick situation in Teddy Brenners' book "Only The Ring Was Square".

Dempsey 1919
12-31-2005, 08:26 PM
I touched on it on page eight of the "Rocky Sloppiano" thread that the idiot started up in NSB a few days ago (that thread's on the second page, I believe), and as I stated in that post up there, you can find the info on that whole Ali/Bobick situation in Teddy Brenners' book "Only The Ring Was Square".

whatever you say.

Yogi
12-31-2005, 08:40 PM
whatever you say.

Hey, it's not what I have to say...It's what Teddy Brenner had to say, and as the MSG matchmaker at the time the Ali/Bobick fight was signed for that venue, I would think that his words carry more than just a little bit of credibilty.

Read the book, Butterfly!

Gavilan1
01-01-2006, 05:35 AM
Yogi, you are a true student of the sport. You never cease to amaze me with your knowledge.

Full credit to you, my man.

supaduck
01-01-2006, 09:30 AM
I would consider a true student of the sport someone who goes out and becomes a great boxer, not someone who studies on others (not that I know enough about Yogi to say he isn't a good fighter, but i'd rather call him an experienced ring historian than a student of the actual sport itself without knowing what he/she has done in the ring, if anything).

Yogi
01-01-2006, 03:36 PM
Yogi, you are a true student of the sport. You never cease to amaze me with your knowledge.

Full credit to you, my man.

Gavilan, you're being way too kind with those comments, but I do appreciate them and thank you for those.

I'm glad you get some enjoyment out of reading a few of my posts and I'd have to say that it works both ways, as I've also enjoyed reading the stuff you've written on here.

Yogi
01-01-2006, 04:40 PM
I would consider a true student of the sport someone who goes out and becomes a great boxer, not someone who studies on others (not that I know enough about Yogi to say he isn't a good fighter, but i'd rather call him an experienced ring historian than a student of the actual sport itself without knowing what he/she has done in the ring, if anything).

I fought in the amateurs for a few years when I was much younger and had some talent in the ring, so I was told (and a pretty decent amateur record reflected that to an extent, as well). But I lacked the dedication to pursue the sport in the long run, and once I hit my late teens, I was more worried about partying, woman, etc.

Gavilan1
01-02-2006, 03:27 AM
Yogi, you're a history buff. How would you rate Jack Dempsey with the all time greats?

Yogi
01-02-2006, 03:39 PM
Yogi, you're a history buff. How would you rate Jack Dempsey with the all time greats?

Gavilan, when I compile all-time Heavyweight rankings I generally include Dempsey amongst the top five of that division. Obviously I have a healthy amount of respect for the man as a fighter & what he meant to the sport, and I tell you, I've probably come to Jack's defense more than any other fighter in history...Lots of Dempsey detractors out there, that's for sure!

blockhead
01-02-2006, 04:53 PM
i hate on marciano, give me one instance of that.
ummmm on every marciano thread. you are the king of the nuthuggers since juyjuy has faded into the distance. and how you take every chance to say that ray robinson is over rated. hating on boxers is stupid but hating on buttfly is ok by me.

Dempsey 1919
01-02-2006, 05:52 PM
ummmm on every marciano thread. you are the king of the nuthuggers since juyjuy has faded into the distance. and how you take every chance to say that ray robinson is over rated. hating on boxers is stupid but hating on buttfly is ok by me.

i should have known you couldn't come up with some concrete evidence, like one post al least, lol! just saying "on every marciano thread" doesn't mean anything if you can't back it up, period. :cool:

blockhead
01-02-2006, 06:13 PM
i should have known you couldn't come up with some concrete evidence, like one post al least, lol! just saying "on every marciano thread" doesn't mean anything if you can't back it up, period. :cool:
you know the stupid **** you say, there is no need to repeat them here. you should pull ali's hog out of your ass.

supaduck
01-02-2006, 06:23 PM
Everyone is entitled to their opinion on a fighter, to some extent. Marciano was awesome, but he never beat anyone great besides Louis. Then again, he could only fight who was around. And tons of people love Ali, give the dude a break. It's not as if he's queer for the guy or nothing.

blockhead
01-02-2006, 06:30 PM
Everyone is entitled to their opinion on a fighter, to some extent. Marciano was awesome, but he never beat anyone great besides Louis. Then again, he could only fight who was around. And tons of people love Ali, give the dude a break. It's not as if he's queer for the guy or nothing.
it sure seems like he is, did you see his "least ugly boxer thread, or his "i want to **** ali thread"?

Dempsey 1919
01-02-2006, 06:34 PM
you know the stupid **** you say, there is no need to repeat them here. you should pull ali's hog out of your ass.

i know the stupid **** i say, but since you can't show one post, then i assume that you don't! you can't prove crap, cause you can't get one post, when yogi at least pointed out one instance, even though i proved him wrong. but you couldn't come up with one thing except saying, "no need to repeat them here". that's pretty weak. :p

supaduck
01-02-2006, 06:34 PM
have you seen his "i want to **** Ali thread?
A message to Blockhead
http://ebaumsworld.com/forumfun/negative2.jpg

Dempsey 1919
01-02-2006, 06:38 PM
it sure seems like he is, did you see his "least ugly boxer thread, or his "i want to **** ali thread"?

i never made a thread saying i wanted to do ali, and the other one was just an idea i got cause someone had a thread of "ugliest boxer" so i made one called "least ugliest boxer" as an experiment to see how many losers would flame me, and guess what? you or someone else started flaming the crap out of me which makes you a loser! :D

supaduck
01-02-2006, 06:44 PM
Anyone who flames someone just for joking around is a loser. When someone is being annoying without realising it, it's usually justified.

Dempsey 1919
01-02-2006, 06:45 PM
Anyone who flames someone just for joking around is a loser. When someone is being annoying without realising it, it's usually justified.

i totally agree.

Brassangel
01-03-2006, 02:58 PM
So Blockhead's senseless posts are all over this site aren't they? Even in here, where the topic was to clear the air and avoid future situations involving boxer/poster hate. Jeesh...obviously his finger is far from the pulse of this forum's community.

Dempsey 1919
01-07-2006, 09:12 PM
So Blockhead's senseless posts are all over this site aren't they? Even in here, where the topic was to clear the air and avoid future situations involving boxer/poster hate. Jeesh...obviously his finger is far from the pulse of this forum's community.

i say blockhead should be banned hehe. :p

Hydro
04-04-2006, 01:28 AM
There are some boxers I hate as people:

Jo-El Scott
Tony Ayala
James Butler

Those guys deserve to be hated.

Most fighters that I dislike I just dislike, I don't HATE them.

SuzieQ49
04-04-2006, 02:57 AM
Ok, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on Marciano then and take back what I said earlier in the thread, although I do wish you'd look into the whole Marciano/Johansson thing a little bit more and quit with the assumptions. If you were to do so, you should find out that Marciano didn't think much of Johansson as a person and he wasn't the only one of the two who wanted the fight. Marciano did not like Johansson, who was the total opposite of what Rocky was...Ingemar had a very ****y & arrogant attitude and was totally lackadaisical in training ("Johansson led a playboy existence even when training for major fights, and it was the norm for him to go nightclubbing & dancing into the early hours during the build-ups for title fights."). Johansson was the total opposite of what Marciano, as Rocky was the relatively quiet & humble type, whose dedication and the amount of time put into training for his fights was about as much as any fighter in history, if not more-so. You had Marciano's dislike for Johansson, the fact that both wanted it (Johannson tried to get out of the rematch clause with Patterson), and also the patriotic part of it...Marciano wanted to bring the title home to the USA.



great post yogi, i never knew ingo wanted the fight that badly, and i never knew there was so much heat between the two.


who would u favor in this matchup in 1960? 37 year old marciano coming off a 5 year layoff?

Yogi
04-04-2006, 10:43 AM
great post yogi, i never knew ingo wanted the fight that badly, and i never knew there was so much heat between the two.


who would u favor in this matchup in 1960? 37 year old marciano coming off a 5 year layoff?

I guess I'd have to favour Johansson just because of Marciano's age and inactivity, but it's tough to say because we don't know how good Marciano would've been at that point...It's not like Marciano was one to rely on his reflexes and such, so maybe that layoff wouldn't hurt him as much as layoffs normally do other fighters. But that is still going to hurt him to some extent, though, and coupled that with his age...yeah, Johansson probably would've taken that fight had it happened in 1960.