View Full Version : The Clay-Liston Fights - Fake or Legitimate?


BIGPOPPAPUMP
12-28-2005, 12:37 AM
Did Sonny Liston throw one or both of his fights with Cassius Clay?

A lot of people think so, including boxing insiders. Many others don't believe it. Some think Liston may have thrown the second fight in Lewiston, Maine, but not the first one.

In any case, controversy has been a shadow over the two Clay-Liston fights and that shadow remains to this day. Unsatisfactory endings to both bouts — in February of 1964 at Miami Beach and in May of 1965 at Lewiston — have created speculation and cast doubts about the veracity of Liston's performances.

In simple terms, this is what happened in the two encounters: Liston lost his title to Clay in the Miami Beach bout when Liston refused to come out of his corner for the seventh round. Liston, who had received a thrashing at the hands of the younger, quicker Clay, claimed that his left shoulder had been injured. In the rematch a year and three months later, Liston went down in the first round from what some referred to as a "phantom punch." It appeared that Liston was able to get up, but chose not to. Clay (then known as Muhammad Ali) was awarded a first-round KO. [details (http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&id=2708)]

RoboHobo
12-28-2005, 02:16 PM
he threw both,
in the first he didnt get a great chance to dive in the right rd
for the mob who had large bets on a loss in that rd. so he quit.

the 2nd he just went down early, the mob knowing odds on a first rd ko were great

RockyMarciano
12-28-2005, 03:35 PM
fake.....phantom punch? lmao you gotta be kidding me

blockhead
12-28-2005, 03:48 PM
2nd one was definately a dive.

-Jay-
12-28-2005, 06:50 PM
2nd one was definately a dive.

I agree with that, he could have got up, he was crawling across the floor.
I just watched it a couple more times, looks like Liston didn't need swimming lessons. In other words, it was a good dive.

restless_438
12-28-2005, 07:04 PM
lol, i remember how Liston's excuse was that Clay was "standing" over him, so how could he get up... funny stuff.