View Full Version : Ali-Norton trilogy questions


DiegoFuego
12-27-2005, 11:03 PM
Ken Norton is the man who broke Ali's jaw in the first fight, correct? I was wondering why Norton's style gave Ali so many problems and whether or not you all think Ali actually lost two or all three of these fights as some people suggest. Does anyone have these fights for DL?

Brassangel
12-27-2005, 11:41 PM
Most major critics agree that Norton won those fights. In fact, it was pretty well known that Ali's career, post 1974, was basically a travelling act to entertain people all over the world. Weak opponents were chosen, or judges always scored decisions to Ali, even when he looked sloppy. While these fights were all well beyond Muhammad Ali's physical prime, it certainly made his record look a little more polished than he deserved. Then again, he may have gone undefeated had he never suffered the layoff during the prime of his career.

LondonRingRules
12-28-2005, 04:25 AM
Ali was a limited fighter in his comeback. Norton was as big and strong and usually better conditioned with a high activity level and was a good boxer/slugger. Some say Ken won all three. Ali didn't have the pop to KO Ken to pull it out, so he was reliant on gift decisions, like against Young. Ali also looked so bad against Spinks. He'd been slipping for a while and everyone was in denial, but the judges were just too embarrassed at his performance to give him another gift decision.

M26
12-28-2005, 05:11 AM
Ken Norton is the man who broke Ali's jaw in the first fight, correct? I was wondering why Norton's style gave Ali so many problems and whether or not you all think Ali actually lost two or all three of these fights as some people suggest. Does anyone have these fights for DL?

Yes, Norton broke Alis jaw in their first fight, supposedly during the second round.

The Ali-Norton fights were all very close. Norton was trained by Eddie Futch, who had developed a way to beat Ali. Among other things, he taught Norton to throw a left jab at the same time as Ali would throw his, and by this taking away Alis most potent weapon.

Norton won the first fight, and deserved the nod in the third fight as well.

Easy-E
12-28-2005, 06:58 AM
Ken Norton is the man who broke Ali's jaw in the first fight, correct? I was wondering why Norton's style gave Ali so many problems and whether or not you all think Ali actually lost two or all three of these fights as some people suggest. Does anyone have these fights for DL?

yup, that was norton who broke ali's jaw. norton's style was very similar to fraizers, a crablike defense that for one reason or another gave ali problems. ali won won the second fight (i think) but was probably give the gift during the third. a early post liston ali would have handled norton, but not as easily as many people think. for some reason that style just gave ali problems.
its a testament to his courage and resistance to pain that ali lasted 10 rounds with a broken jaw though

hellfire508
12-28-2005, 07:20 AM
Norton won the first fight. Ali won the second. Norton won the third.

Though the "style" Norton had to trouble Ali would always be there, there is no question a prime Ali would comfortably beat Norton. Watch all three fights - any time Ali is up on his toes with fluent movement, Norton is basically helpless. A prime Ali shuts him down.

M26
12-28-2005, 10:58 AM
Norton won the first fight. Ali won the second. Norton won the third.

Though the "style" Norton had to trouble Ali would always be there, there is no question a prime Ali would comfortably beat Norton. Watch all three fights - any time Ali is up on his toes with fluent movement, Norton is basically helpless. A prime Ali shuts him down.

I agree. Prime Ali defeats Norton.

Brassangel
12-28-2005, 11:14 AM
A prime Ali definitely beats Norton, and almost everybody else for that matter. I think what we're looking for here is links to the downloadable fights, however.

Dempsey 1919
12-28-2005, 02:44 PM
if ali was in tip-top shape for those fights, then he wouldn't have lost any of them.