"Smokin'" Joe Frazier vs. Rocky "The Brockton Blockbuster" Marciano

Just think about it. How hard would it be to predict a winner? Both were ****ing warriors. I mean, these 2 would just completely and utterly ****ing destroy eachother and not back down. Both men would be taking cruel beatings and would still keep coming. Frazier's "Philly left hook" would tear into Rocky like a wild bull, he would damage him with right and left hooks to the body, and sting him with straight rights and right uppercuts to the head. Marciano would pummel Frazier with the "Suzie Q", beat Frazier's body as well, and would nail him with left hooks, and uppercuts. I mean, by the 5th round, they would both look like they went to hell, got the shit beaten out of them by Satan himself, and came back up to Earth. And neither man would say "It's over, I'm in too much pain." I really think the ref would have to stop the fight on account of both men.

**** Ali vs. Louis, **** Tyson vs. Dempsey, **** Liston vs. Foreman, this would be the most entertaining and gut-wrenching fantasy fight ever.

I saw the title of this thread and predicted it would be a Frazier vs. Marciano fight, good choice! This probably would be the most brutal fight ever and I give the victory to Marciano after a long and difficult fight.

foreman vs. liston.

Either Marciano vs. Frazier or Marciano vs. Dempsey. Both would be brutal as hell to watch.

frazier, marciano and dempsey against each other realy scares me, especially if its 15 rounds and the ref would be like in the old day.....i see someone dying

Either Marciano vs. Frazier or Marciano vs. Dempsey. Both would be brutal as hell to watch.

yeah, brutal for marciano and dempsey lol!

yeah, brutal for marciano and dempsey lol!

and why is that?

and why is that?

cause frazier would rip their heads off!

cause frazier would rip their heads off!

and why is that?

and why is that?

frazier is 205-210, marciano is 180-185, and dempsey is 190-195. plus dempsey has a glass chin, and marciano is slow.

frazier is 205-210, marciano is 180-185, and dempsey is 190-195. plus dempsey has a glass chin, and marciano is slow.


i dont know that much about dempsey so i wont argue on that one.

but marciano on the other hand.

firstly marciano fought between 180-190 useally at 185.

marciano had better stamina and power.

they were about the same weight and frazier, same frame and muscles mass.

the main difference in physical appearance is frazier bodyfat percentage.

marciano with frazier amount of body fat would be about fraziers weight and frazier at marciano`s body fat percentage would be about 185.

so your points is that frazier would win because he was fatter

i dont know that much about dempsey so i wont argue on that one.

but marciano on the other hand.

firstly marciano fought between 180-190 useally at 185.

marciano had better stamina and power.

they were about the same weight and frazier, same frame and muscles mass.

the main difference in physical appearance is frazier bodyfat percentage.

marciano with frazier amount of body fat would be about fraziers weight and frazier at marciano`s body fat percentage would be about 185.

so your points is that frazier would win because he was fatter

at 205 frazier was not fat. he was in excellent shape.

at 205 frazier was not fat. he was in excellent shape.


im not saying he was fat im saying he wasnt lean, and marciano was in better shape as would frazier have been at marciano`s bodyfat percentage

im not saying he was fat im saying he wasnt lean, and marciano was in better shape as would frazier have been at marciano`s bodyfat percentage

you must have been watching like thrilla in manila or something like that! he was like 215 in those later fights. watch his early fights, and you'll see what i'm talking about!

you must have been watching like thrilla in manila or something like that! he was like 215 in those later fights. watch his early fights, and you'll see what i'm talking about!

ive seen many fights and pics off frazier.
including ali-frazier 1 and 3.

frazier wasnt lean at 205

ive seen many fights and pics off frazier.
including ali-frazier 1 and 3.

frazier wasnt lean at 205

but he wasn't fat. he wasn't well chiseled at 205, but he was fit though.

but he wasn't fat. he wasn't well chiseled at 205, but he was fit though.


im not saying he wasnt in shape, cause he was in ****ing good shape, im saying its wrong to say frazier would beat marciano based on being fatter

im not saying he wasnt in shape, cause he was in ****ing good shape, im saying its wrong to say frazier would beat marciano based on being fatter

frazier took downn bigger men on average than marciano.

I don't think Frazier would destroy Marciano or Dempsey. I also don't think that Marciano had better power than Frazier, either.

I think Frazier would win, but it would be REAL close. Marciano beat guys twice the size of Frazier, so lets not think about the small size difference. Frazier fought better quality opponents than Marciano and managed to go the distance and beat better quality fighters than Marciano.

It would be a great brutal fight though, that I can see a lot of blood being involved!

I think Frazier would win, but it would be REAL close. Marciano beat guys twice the size of Frazier, so lets not think about the small size difference. Frazier fought better quality opponents than Marciano and managed to go the distance and beat better quality fighters than Marciano.

It would be a great brutal fight though, that I can see a lot of blood being involved!

no way marciano or dempsey would hurt frazier. if the light hitting gene tunney could floor dempsey, then obviously frazier would kill him! and if a middleweight in archie moore can knock marciano down with one punch, then isn't it obvious that someone like frazier would rip his head off!

no way marciano or dempsey would hurt frazier. if the light hitting gene tunney could floor dempsey, then obviously frazier would kill him! and if a middleweight in archie moore can knock marciano down with one punch, then isn't it obvious that someone like frazier would rip his head off!
you my friend should never post on here again. archie moore a middleweight? yeah right. archie struggled to make weight at light heavy let alone middle. and archie koed more fools than anyone ever. marciano could hurt frazier and to say he couldnt is just another stupid ass post from a kid who has never been hit and knows nothing about boxing!!!!!!!!!!

frazier took downn bigger men on average than marciano.

true

both men fought the bes5t of their era, sure there was big guys in the 50s to but they werent at the top off the game, marciano fought the best, not his fault that the best wasnt huge.

you my friend should never post on here again. archie moore a middleweight? yeah right. archie struggled to make weight at light heavy let alone middle. and archie koed more fools than anyone ever. marciano could hurt frazier and to say he couldnt is just another stupid ass post from a kid who has never been hit and knows nothing about boxing!!!!!!!!!!
__________________


We have intelligent life on the boards! I salute you good sir.

tyson vs frazier

jake lamotta vs mickey ward
mayorga vs lamotta

We have intelligent life on the boards! I salute you good sir.
thank you and i salute you.

Butterfly,

You say Dempsey had a glass chin? He was KO'ed ONCE in his career, and that was a fight in which he hadn't eaten for 3 days. As for Tunney, Tunney was the fastest heavyweight of all-time, and floored him in the 8th round after pounding him the rounds before. Nevertheless, Dempsey shot up and finished the fight.

Archie Moore, a middleweight? I just stopped reading it right there.

Butterfly,

You say Dempsey had a glass chin? He was KO'ed ONCE in his career, and that was a fight in which he hadn't eaten for 3 days. As for Tunney, Tunney was the fastest heavyweight of all-time, and floored him in the 8th round after pounding him the rounds before. Nevertheless, Dempsey shot up and finished the fight.

Archie Moore, a middleweight? I just stopped reading it right there.

let me ask you something. do you think dempsey could handle frazier's punching power? definetely not. firpo doesn't punch harder than frazier but had dempsey down multiple times. and tunney the fastest hw of all time? :eek: well, ALI, holmes, patterson, norton, spinks, etc, etc, etc would dance circles around tunney, hahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!! and moore fought at middleweight for several years in case you didn't know.

That's true, Moore fought at middleweight for a good while.

from his boxrec records-

1941-02-21 161 Eddie Booker 159 44-2-4
Coliseum, San Diego, CA, USA D PTS 10 10
California State Middleweight Title
Moore was down twice, for no-count in round one and for nine in the fourth round.

That's just one of many such fights.

marciano had better stamina and power.

Hah, no ****ing way. I'll say the power is close, but better stamina? Smokin' Joe fought every second of every round. Watch Ali/Frazier 3, and even not being able to see out of his left eye and taking a gigantic beating back and forth he was still comming forward, swinging big every round.

That's true, Moore fought at middleweight for a good while.

from his boxrec records-

1941-02-21 161 Eddie Booker 159 44-2-4
Coliseum, San Diego, CA, USA D PTS 10 10
California State Middleweight Title
Moore was down twice, for no-count in round one and for nine in the fourth round.

That's just one of many such fights.

yeah, and he was trying to get a title shot with sugar ray robinson but robinson ducked him.

Hah, no ****ing way. I'll say the power is close, but better stamina? Smokin' Joe fought every second of every round. Watch Ali/Frazier 3, and even not being able to see out of his left eye and taking a gigantic beating back and forth he was still comming forward, swinging big every round.

i think it's the other way around. frazier has tons more power than marciano, but marciano's constitution was insane! frazier doesn't even come close.

yeah, and he was trying to get a title shot with sugar ray robinson but robinson ducked him.

Come on, Butterfly, knock it off with this ducking shit!

A simple timeline would show that when Robinson won the Middleweight title in 1951, Archie Moore was already a full-fledged Light Heavyweight (as well as frequenting the Heavyweight division) and had been for the last five or six years. And jsut a little bit of research will show that Archie Moore hadn't been a ranked Middleweight contender since 1943, when he sat in the 10th spot. Moore was a ranked Light Heavyweight from 1945 on, including being the #1 contender to the Light Heavyweight title in 1945.

Now if you were to make the assumption that Robinson didn't want any part of Moore when there were talks of the two greats fighting for Moore's Light Heavyweight title in the late 50's, then I wouldn't say too much about that besides a few facts related to the talks (including Robinson pricing himself out of the fight). But to say Moore was worthy of a Middleweight title shot when Robinson was the champion of that division is just plain, what's the word I'm looking for...stupid?!

Come on, Butterfly, knock it off with this ducking shit!

A simple timeline would show that when Robinson won the Middleweight title in 1951, Archie Moore was already a full-fledged Light Heavyweight (as well as frequenting the Heavyweight division) and had been for the last five or six years. And jsut a little bit of research will show that Archie Moore hadn't been a ranked Middleweight contender since 1943, when he sat in the 10th spot. Moore was a ranked Light Heavyweight from 1945 on, including being the #1 contender to the Light Heavyweight title in 1945.

Now if you were to make the assumption that Robinson didn't want any part of Moore when there were talks of the two greats fighting for Moore's Light Heavyweight title in the late 50's, then I wouldn't say too much about that besides a few facts related to the talks (including Robinson pricing himself out of the fight). But to say Moore was worthy of a Middleweight title shot when Robinson was the champion of that division is just plain, what's the word I'm looking for...stupid?!

well then i guess i meant before robinson won the title he didn't want to fight moore.

well then i guess i meant before robinson won the title he didn't want to fight moore.

Ok, then what is that opinion based on, though?

Do you have any quotes or sources to back up that claim of yours, or are you just making another one of your ridiculous assumptions?

If you were to say that Robinson ducked say, Charley Burley, then yeah, I could probably agree with that because there is documented quotes from Robinson stating that he's "too pretty to fight Charley Burley", which was said in 1942 when both fighters appeared on the same card in Minneapolis. And there's also the fact that Robinson finally signed to fight Burley in May of 1946 (after many attempts to match them up were made by various promoters), but only to pull out at the last minute when he stated he wouldn't fight Burley unless the promoters upped his purse and met his $25,000 demands...

But Robinson "ducked" Moore?

Ok, then what is that opinion based on, though?

Do you have any quotes or sources to back up that claim of yours, or are you just making another one of your ridiculous assumptions?

If you were to say that Robinson ducked say, Charley Burley, then yeah, I could probably agree with that because there is documented quotes from Robinson stating that he's "too pretty to fight Charley Burley", which was said in 1942 when both fighters appeared on the same card in Minneapolis. And there's also the fact that Robinson finally signed to fight Burley in May of 1946 (after many attempts to match them up were made by various promoters), but only to pull out at the last minute when he stated he wouldn't fight Burley unless the promoters upped his purse and met his $25,000 demands...

But Robinson "ducked" Moore?

robinson ducked burley, turpin, and moore to fight lesser fighters like lamotta, fullmer, and basilio.

robinson ducked burley, turpin, and moore to fight lesser fighters like lamotta, fullmer, and basilio.

That statement doesn't prove anything, Butterfly, and I was hoping you'd respond with quotes or sources, rather than more allegations of Robinson ducking certain fighters...

Anyways, I already acknowledged the Burley situation, but now your stating that Robinson ducked Turpin, as well? Shit man, why would Robinson fight Turpin for a third time when the ending to the rematch was about as final & devastating an outcome as you could possibly get? Regardless though, I doubt Turpin was too worried about a third fight with Robinson, because he was dealing with allegations of rape & assault against a young girl, which apparently came up when he came over for the rematch with Ray...I'm not even sure if Turpin would've been available to come over for a third fight with Robinson at the time, because of legal issues surrounding that whole case (which was eventually settled out of court, but by that time Robinson had already retired after facing Maxim).

It's funny you mentioned both Moore & Basilio in that post...Are you aware that Robinson turned down $500,000 for a rubbermatch with Basilio because he had an even better offer on the table? It's true, man. There was a businessman who was new to the sport of boxing and he tried to match up Robinson & Moore in a fight where both fighters were to split a million dollar purse. He initailly approached Robinson about the idea of matching the two greats and Ray took an immediate liking to it. The businessman then asked Robinson to speak with Moore about the proposed fight, which Ray did over dinner one night at his own home. The only thing that killed the whole deal was Robinson wanting the much larger portion of the purse (Ray initially proposed a $750,000 to $250,000 split, but was open to some negotiations), and Archie Moore would not go for that, at all.

Much like the Ali/Bobick situation, that whole story is talked about in Teddy Brenner's "Only The Ring Was Square" (pages 43-44).

Just based on those facts, don't you think one can turn your whole logic around and say that Robinson ducked Basilio when the opportunity to fight Moore was presented to him?

let me ask you something. do you think dempsey could handle frazier's punching power? definetely not. firpo doesn't punch harder than frazier but had dempsey down multiple times. and tunney the fastest hw of all time? :eek: well, ALI, holmes, patterson, norton, spinks, etc, etc, etc would dance circles around tunney, hahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!! and moore fought at middleweight for several years in case you didn't know.

Have you ever even seen Tunney fight? No, you haven't at all. And I know you haven't. Tunney looked just as fast as Ali, and the filming was shitty. I think you will find a shit load of people who find Tunney to be one of the top 3 fastest heavyweights of all-time. Norton and Holmes, dance circles around Tunney? You've got to be kidding me!!!! Norton and Holmes didn't have impressive speed at all, mediocre at best. Hell, Dempsey, a man who rushed opponents and had very good footwork, couldn't catch Tunney.

And Firpo had Dempsey down multiple times? Firpo floored him once, and then pushed Dempsey out of the ring. Anyways, Firpo most likely hit harder than Frazier, though Frazier threw more punches and was more agressive.

I agree with you that Frazier would beat Dempsey, but no matter on who I agree with, ignorant and stupid statements can't go by.

this is one fight i cant pick, they both are relentless... id give the edge to rocky with the stamina.

Tunney wasn't as fast as Ali, and that video footage doesn't show this well.

no way marciano or dempsey would hurt frazier. if the light hitting gene tunney could floor dempsey, then obviously frazier would kill him! and if a middleweight in archie moore can knock marciano down with one punch, then isn't it obvious that someone like frazier would rip his head off!

Butterfly, you obviously know nothing of marciano or dempsey. Dempsey was a huge power puncher, as was marciano. Marciano could definately hurt frazier with a body shot or a headshot. Dempsey was technically brilliant and not only slugged but could box, he would give frazier some trouble but inevitably loose with that weight differential.

Have you ever even seen Tunney fight? No, you haven't at all. And I know you haven't. Tunney looked just as fast as Ali, and the filming was shitty. I think you will find a shit load of people who find Tunney to be one of the top 3 fastest heavyweights of all-time. Norton and Holmes, dance circles around Tunney? You've got to be kidding me!!!! Norton and Holmes didn't have impressive speed at all, mediocre at best. Hell, Dempsey, a man who rushed opponents and had very good footwork, couldn't catch Tunney.

And Firpo had Dempsey down multiple times? Firpo floored him once, and then pushed Dempsey out of the ring. Anyways, Firpo most likely hit harder than Frazier, though Frazier threw more punches and was more agressive.

I agree with you that Frazier would beat Dempsey, but no matter on who I agree with, ignorant and stupid statements can't go by.

yeah, i saw tunney fight, or else i wouldn't be talking about him, stupid! i saw both dempsey-tunney fights.

and yeah, the filming was shitty, it made tunney look faster than he actually was, maybe that's why in your little mind, he was faster than ali. everything looked faster than it was in those shoddy films.

norton and holmes wasn't fast? wow, you must be smoking crack right now! how the hell do you beat muhammad ali and not be fast? answer me that one. well, yes ali wasn't in his prime, but he was still pretty damn fast when he fought norton the first time, joe frazier used norton as a key sparring partner to increase frazier's bobbing speed when he was going to fight jimmy ellis for the title, who was fast himself, in fact muhammad ali in his prime used jimmy ellis as a premier sparring partner to increase his speed for fights. norton definetely was fast. and larry holmes is one of the fastest moving hw's off all time. an old holmes was confusing the quick mike tyson in the beginning of the fourth round, so imagine when he was young?

and any fool knows dempsey in his prime would have crushed tunney! dempsey was 31 at that time, and in the 20's that was ancient. he didn't have the speed in his hands and movements, much like tyson now.

firpo pushed dempsey out of the ring? c'mon! dempsey got his ass knocked out of the ring and you know it; and if you don't, you need to have your head examined.

firpo hit harder than frazier? let me ask you a question. when you hear people talk about heavy hw hitters, do you hear anybody mention frazier? of course! but do you hear anybody say that angel firpo was one of the hardest hitters of all times? definetely not. so what makes you think he hit harder than frazier? do you think the best fighters from the 1920s can beat the best fighters from the last 30yrs.? with training techniques today and increased sizes and p4p strength every 10years of human beings it is damn near impossible! frazier is light years ahead of firpo in every aspect of boxing.

Butterfly, you obviously know nothing of marciano or dempsey. Dempsey was a huge power puncher, as was marciano. Marciano could definately hurt frazier with a body shot or a headshot. Dempsey was technically brilliant and not only slugged but could box, he would give frazier some trouble but inevitably loose with that weight differential.

if marciano and dempsey fought the same people frazier fought, they would have lost alot of fights.

Frazier would win by a split decision with Marciano, a KO with Dempsey in the 7th.

Frazier was the best out of these three.

Frazier would win by a split decision with Marciano, a KO with Dempsey in the 7th.

Frazier was the best out of these three.

of course he was.

yeah, i saw tunney fight, or else i wouldn't be talking about him, stupid! i saw both dempsey-tunney fights.

and yeah, the filming was shitty, it made tunney look faster than he actually was, maybe that's why in your little mind, he was faster than ali. everything looked faster than it was in those shoddy films.

norton and holmes wasn't fast? wow, you must be smoking crack right now! how the hell do you beat muhammad ali and not be fast? answer me that one. well, yes ali wasn't in his prime, but he was still pretty damn fast when he fought norton the first time, joe frazier used norton as a key sparring partner to increase frazier's bobbing speed when he was going to fight jimmy ellis for the title, who was fast himself, in fact muhammad ali in his prime used jimmy ellis as a premier sparring partner to increase his speed for fights. norton definetely was fast. and larry holmes is one of the fastest moving hw's off all time. an old holmes was confusing the quick mike tyson in the beginning of the fourth round, so imagine when he was young?

and any fool knows dempsey in his prime would have crushed tunney! dempsey was 31 at that time, and in the 20's that was ancient. he didn't have the speed in his hands and movements, much like tyson now.

firpo pushed dempsey out of the ring? c'mon! dempsey got his ass knocked out of the ring and you know it; and if you don't, you need to have your head examined.

firpo hit harder than frazier? let me ask you a question. when you hear people talk about heavy hw hitters, do you hear anybody mention frazier? of course! but do you hear anybody say that angel firpo was one of the hardest hitters of all times? definetely not. so what makes you think he hit harder than frazier? do you think the best fighters from the 1920s can beat the best fighters from the last 30yrs.? with training techniques today and increased sizes and p4p strength every 10years of human beings it is damn near impossible! frazier is light years ahead of firpo in every aspect of boxing.

Both Dempsey fights aren't nearly enough to see how fast Tunney was. Tunney was incredibly fast. He is definetly one of the top 3 fastest heavyweights of all-time, and any knowledgable boxing fan will agree with me on that. As for the filming, I recall you saying that older films made people look slower.

Ok first of all, in the Holmes fight, all Ali did was sit there and just get bombarded by Holmes's shots. Holmes winning that fight had nothing to do with speed. Norton was fast in ways, but his speed wasn't what beat Ali. It was his awkard style and counter-punching.

I know that Dempsey would beat Tunney in his prime. Did I ever say Dempsey would lose to Tunney in his prime? I was just stating that Dempsey, who had great footwork, couldn't catch Tunney. While Dempsey's head and hand speed were gone, he still had great footwork. Dempsey's feet were enough to catch Tommy Gibbons, a lightweight, yet he couldn't get close to Tunney (except once, of course).

Nearly everyone will agree with me that Dempsey got pushed. That last right hand was just as much as a push than a punch.

Let me ask you a question. Does anyone know who the **** Firpo is? Once again, any knowledgable boxing fan would put Firpo as one of the heaviest hitters of all-time. Dempsey doesn't even remember the fight after that giant right hand crushed him to the canvas, for Christ's sake. Once again, you overlooked when I said that Frazier was a much more devastating and relentless puncher. There's a big difference in relentless punching and heavy punching. Would you consider Marciano and Frazier to be the same type of puncher as Foreman and/or Shavers?

Alas, you still don't seem to remember that I agreed with you 100% that Frazier would beat Dempsey and Marciano.

i say dempsey vs marciano.

frazier was too one-dimensional, marciano by TKO.

dempsey was far tougher, far rougher, far FAR more brutal than frazier.

marciano by KO.

Both Dempsey fights aren't nearly enough to see how fast Tunney was. Tunney was incredibly fast. He is definetly one of the top 3 fastest heavyweights of all-time, and any knowledgable boxing fan will agree with me on that. As for the filming, I recall you saying that older films made people look slower.

Ok first of all, in the Holmes fight, all Ali did was sit there and just get bombarded by Holmes's shots. Holmes winning that fight had nothing to do with speed. Norton was fast in ways, but his speed wasn't what beat Ali. It was his awkard style and counter-punching.

I know that Dempsey would beat Tunney in his prime. Did I ever say Dempsey would lose to Tunney in his prime? I was just stating that Dempsey, who had great footwork, couldn't catch Tunney. While Dempsey's head and hand speed were gone, he still had great footwork. Dempsey's feet were enough to catch Tommy Gibbons, a lightweight, yet he couldn't get close to Tunney (except once, of course).

Nearly everyone will agree with me that Dempsey got pushed. That last right hand was just as much as a push than a punch.

Let me ask you a question. Does anyone know who the **** Firpo is? Once again, any knowledgable boxing fan would put Firpo as one of the heaviest hitters of all-time. Dempsey doesn't even remember the fight after that giant right hand crushed him to the canvas, for Christ's sake. Once again, you overlooked when I said that Frazier was a much more devastating and relentless puncher. There's a big difference in relentless punching and heavy punching. Would you consider Marciano and Frazier to be the same type of puncher as Foreman and/or Shavers?

Alas, you still don't seem to remember that I agreed with you 100% that Frazier would beat Dempsey and Marciano.

you say norton beat ali cause of his style. well, if norton was slow do you think that crap would matter? no, ali would have picked norton apart if he was slow, style or not. so norton had to have speed.

a prime dempsey fought gibbons. a washed-up dempsey fought tunney.

and i said older films make you look faster. watch the jack johnson, jack dempsey, and even some joe louis fights. so tunney probably is so fast to you cause of those films. he certainly wasn't faster than ali, patterson, or maybe even watcott.

you say norton beat ali cause of his style. well, if norton was slow do you think that crap would matter? no, ali would have picked norton apart if he was slow, style or not. so norton had to have speed.

a prime dempsey fought gibbons. a washed-up dempsey fought tunney.

and i said older films make you look faster. watch the jack johnson, jack dempsey, and even some joe louis fights. so tunney probably is so fast to you cause of those films. he certainly wasn't faster than ali, patterson, or maybe even watcott.

Did you or did you not post this a few days ago:
it took a prime holmes 11 rounds to stop ali, and ali had parkinson's disease, was like 40 years old, and he was on drugs. holmes is better than tyson. so tyson would stop a prime 25yr. ali in three, get out of here! ali is not terrel biggs you idiot! tyson is not as fast as ali, i've watched both of them fight. not only that, but the footage they used to film tyson is far superior to the footage used to film a prime ali, the tyson footage is like high-definition, and the ali footage is hisses and pops and also in black and white; fighters look faster and better in high-def than in b&w, and ali still looked somewhat faster IMO. ali would dance away at tyson's shots and hit him at will. i've seen countless fighters hit tyson who were way slower than ali, so forget about it. frazier barely beat ali when ali was slower and only fought less than 18 rounds in four years, and IMO frazier is better than tyson, not skill wise but had more heart and stamina and would beat tyson in the long run. so your explanation is mad retarded.

Newer and high-def footage makes fighters look faster is what you said. You seem to have suddenly changed your mind yesterday.

Also, no shit Dempsey wasn't as good as he was when he fought Gibbons, but he still had great footwork, and that is apparent on the film. Just because his head movement and punching weren't as explosive, he still had great footwork. Like I said, go ask any knowledgeable boxing fan is Tunney is one of the fastest heavyweight champions ever.

Yet once again, you still don't seem to agree with me that Frazier would beat Dempsey. It wouldn't be a pushover for Frazier at all, though. Not one bit.