View Full Version : whos style is more entertaining to watch tyson or ali.


Verstyle
12-25-2005, 09:14 PM
for me ali style was sorta boring he just danced and moved out of the way of punches instead of really blockin them. I mean I know that's what boxings about but still. I watched ringside on espn classic for like 6hours and I have to say it was pretty ****in boring cause he's style isnt excitin at all if he fought in this era he would be booed and maybe juuus maybe be a nobody(dont see why ppl say he can beat a tyson cause the match's I saw when he gets cornered with pressure he puts his hands up and has this scared look on his face like"o **** they got me"U see what joe did to him and tyson's alot faster in gettin inside then joe I bet. And tyson's style is go right toward u with aggression tryin to knock u out with every punch.He's bob and weave style made for an interesting site when watching and not knowing when he might knock them out was a treat also.

Dempsey 1919
12-25-2005, 09:24 PM
for me ali style was sorta boring he just danced and moved out of the way of punches instead of really blockin them. I mean I know that's what boxings about but still. I watched ringside on espn classic for like 6hours and I have to say it was pretty ****in boring cause he's style isnt excitin at all if he fought in this era he would be booed and maybe juuus maybe be a nobody(dont see why ppl say he can beat a tyson cause the match's I saw when he gets cornered with pressure he puts his hands up and has this scared look on his face like"o **** they got me"U see what joe did to him and tyson's alot faster in gettin inside then joe I bet. And tyson's style is go right toward u with aggression tryin to knock u out with every punch.He's bob and weave style made for an interesting site when watching and not knowing when he might knock them out was a treat also.

ali toyed with you in the ring. he made it fun. watch the cooper fight in the third round. he was making faces at him while throwing combinations hahahaha! tyson can't toy with a fighter, he doesn't have the charisma that ali has so it's no contest. and ali wasn't in his prime when he fought frazier, everybody knows that.

leff
12-25-2005, 09:28 PM
hard call

ive had my best fights with ali so yeah it will have to be ali.

Dempsey 1919
12-25-2005, 09:30 PM
hard call

ive had my best fights with ali so yeah it will have to be ali.

you never fought ali.

Verstyle
12-25-2005, 09:30 PM
ali toyed with you in the ring. he made it fun. watch the cooper fight in the third round. he was making faces at him while throwing combinations hahahaha! tyson can't toy with a fighter, he doesn't have the charisma that ali has so it's no contest. and ali wasn't in his prime when he fought frazier, everybody knows that.



u need to watch for 1 fight tyson vs. mitch green. and I didnt say that he wasnt it just he's style is boring.*yawn*

Dempsey 1919
12-25-2005, 09:40 PM
u need to watch for 1 fight tyson vs. mitch green. and I didnt say that he wasnt it just he's style is boring.*yawn*

the stick and move style is boring. ali had the stick and move, but he spiced it up a little. he danced around and made it poetry and it was beautiful. he shuffled! whoooooooooo the shuffle! tyson can't do that. if he tried, he would trip over his own feet and break his own ankles! ali can shuffle and make his opponents break their ankles! ali is the "and one" of boxing ahaha! you like tyson's style, thats understandable, i kind of like it too, but i like ali's style because it's intoxicating. you want to copy tyson's style, but i want to copy ali's style, because you can't be hit like that, and that's what every boxer would not like to be, hit. so i think ali's is the best, because it's unbelievable how fast he was, whoooooooaaaaaaaaa!!

http://www.cosmofineart.com/HG_Ali_FloatLikeAB.jpg

Verstyle
12-25-2005, 09:57 PM
the stick and move style is boring. ali had the stick and move, but he spiced it up a little. he danced around and made it poetry and it was beautiful. he shuffled! whoooooooooo the shuffle! tyson can't do that. if he tried, he would trip over his own feet and break his own ankles! ali can shuffle and make his opponents break their ankles! ali is the "and one" of boxing ahaha! you like tyson's style, thats understandable, i kind of like it too, but i like ali's style because it's intoxicating. you want to copy tyson's style, but i want to copy ali's style, because you can't be hit like that, and that's what every boxer would not like to be, hit. so i think ali's is the best, because it's unbelievable how fast he was, whoooooooaaaaaaaaa!!

http://www.cosmofineart.com/HG_Ali_FloatLikeAB.jpg

ok it may be the best to u buuuuuuuut is it more entertaining then tyson's?? in other words would u sit your ass down to watch ali fight or tyson but not being a fan of neither

Dempsey 1919
12-25-2005, 10:01 PM
ok it may be the best to u buuuuuuuut is it more entertaining then tyson's?? in other words would u sit your ass down to watch ali fight or tyson but not being a fan of neither

probably ali's, cause before i was a fan of either, i watched both and i quickly wanted to fight like ali. i wanted to fight like tyson too, cause they both were exciting, but ali's was more glamorous and appealing, cause he used to humiliate opponents before ko'ing them, when tyson just ko'd them.

Brassangel
12-25-2005, 10:20 PM
But he was hit when he used that style in his prime; several times. Clay was hit by Jones in 1963 when he was the #1 contender and in great shape. Ali staggered from a landed punch that Jones delivered in the first round, and anybody who fought Jones said that he hit like a lightweight. Doug Jones was good at closing the gap, and because of that, he gave Ali trouble in that fight. You know who was better at closing the gap than Jones? Tyson. Mike Tyson was arguably the best at closing the gap in the sport's history. In Ali's fights in the 60's, he got hit and even went down in multiple fights. While he did go on to win those fights, they were fights against opponents who weren't great finishers. You know who was a great finisher? Tyson. When a fighter was hurt, Tyson was automatic. Put Tyson in Jones's situation where he would have caught Ali staggering from an off-guard punch--which, if Jones could do it, Tyson could have done it in his sleep--Ali would have hit the mat and stayed there until after the count of 10. This argument is not refutable by a statement like, "If it wasn't for fighters A, B, and C, Jones would have been the best ever! That's why he gave Ali trouble!" While Ali was tough to take down sometimes, this wasn't the case when he was caught by a clean shot. Landing a clean shot was the difficult part, but it was clearly not impossible as many fighters proved.

Ali's chin was NOT perfect, his style was NOT perfect, he was NOT Superman, he was NOT impossible to hit, his speed was NOT too much for every fighter in every situation, and while he was fast, there were people who weren't even very good that could and did combat his speed. Keep in mind, I believe that Ali was the greatest heavyweight of all-time. REPEAT: ALI WAS THE GREATEST HEAVYWEIGHT OF ALL-TIME. It is rediculous, however, to assume that he was perfect in every aspect of the sport.

In terms of raw excitement, I would say that more people would concede that Tyson was far more exciting to watch than Ali. That doesn't mean that he was better, he was just more explosive and "edge-of-your-seat" than Ali. Muhammad's style was fluid, even poetic, but it often rendered 'boo's' from the crowd when he'd spend an entire round dancing and not punching. People want punching to define excitement, not jawing and mocking. Ali himself was a charismatic character, but that didn't matter nearly as much to the fans as someone who could tear people's heads off like Tyson did. Check the ratings of their respective fights; Tyson wins by an ocean.

Before I close, I just wanted to state that I believe Muhammad Ali was a surperior fighter to Mike Tyson. He was definitely a greater champion, but it is absolutely juvenile to say things like, "He was so fast, nobody could touch him..." when he clearly got "touched" and even knocked down during his physical prime. Often times it was by fighters who weren't strong or powerful, they just knew how to close the gap. All of the speed in the world doesn't mean anything if a decent fighter knows how to close the gap. Yes, Ali was a master of creating disadvantages for his opponents, but he wasn't invincible. He was just a man like every one of his opponents. Sometimes his opponents were capable of proving that Ali was no more than a man. A man with an incredible set of gifts, but a man nonetheless.

I normally agree with you Butterfly, but you really stretched to make this case.

machotime
12-25-2005, 10:25 PM
I think Ali has a more exciting style. People went to see Ali for two reasons, they either Hated him or loved him, no inbetween. He was arrogant yet likable, concieted yet talented, took punches but dished out more. He provided more exciting fights that were better quality. Tyson fought many bums, that only lasted 1-5 rounds. As a matter of fact his average rounds in the ring on his 32nd fight was like 2 rounds or something like that. Ali was unpredictable.

Verstyle
12-25-2005, 10:34 PM
I think Ali has a more exciting style. People went to see Ali for two reasons, they either Hated him or loved him, no inbetween. He was arrogant yet likable, concieted yet talented, took punches but dished out more. He provided more exciting fights that were better quality. Tyson fought many bums, that only lasted 1-5 rounds. As a matter of fact his average rounds in the ring on his 32nd fight was like 2 rounds or something like that. Ali was unpredictable.


if u wanna watch some1 dance around the ring why dont u look at a ballet. :rolleyes:

Dempsey 1919
12-25-2005, 10:46 PM
But he was hit when he used that style in his prime; several times. Clay was hit by Jones in 1963 when he was the #1 contender and in great shape. Ali staggered from a landed punch that Jones delivered in the first round, and anybody who fought Jones said that he hit like a lightweight. Doug Jones was good at closing the gap, and because of that, he gave Ali trouble in that fight. You know who was better at closing the gap than Jones? Tyson. Mike Tyson was arguably the best at closing the gap in the sport's history. In Ali's fights in the 60's, he got hit and even went down in multiple fights. While he did go on to win those fights, they were fights against opponents who weren't great finishers. You know who was a great finisher? Tyson. When a fighter was hurt, Tyson was automatic. Put Tyson in Jones's situation where he would have caught Ali staggering from an off-guard punch--which, if Jones could do it, Tyson could have done it in his sleep--Ali would have hit the mat and stayed there until after the count of 10. This argument is not refutable by a statement like, "If it wasn't for fighters A, B, and C, Jones would have been the best ever! That's why he gave Ali trouble!" While Ali was tough to take down sometimes, this wasn't the case when he was caught by a clean shot. Landing a clean shot was the difficult part, but it was clearly not impossible as many fighters proved.

Ali's chin was NOT perfect, his style was NOT perfect, he was NOT Superman, he was NOT impossible to hit, his speed was NOT too much for every fighter in every situation, and while he was fast, there were people who weren't even very good that could and did combat his speed. Keep in mind, I believe that Ali was the greatest heavyweight of all-time. REPEAT: ALI WAS THE GREATEST HEAVYWEIGHT OF ALL-TIME. It is rediculous, however, to assume that he was perfect in every aspect of the sport.

In terms of raw excitement, I would say that more people would concede that Tyson was far more exciting to watch than Ali. That doesn't mean that he was better, he was just more explosive and "edge-of-your-seat" than Ali. Muhammad's style was fluid, even poetic, but it often rendered 'boo's' from the crowd when he'd spend an entire round dancing and not punching. People want punching to define excitement, not jawing and mocking. Ali himself was a charismatic character, but that didn't matter nearly as much to the fans as someone who could tear people's heads off like Tyson did. Check the ratings of their respective fights; Tyson wins by an ocean.

Before I close, I just wanted to state that I believe Muhammad Ali was a surperior fighter to Mike Tyson. He was definitely a greater champion, but it is absolutely juvenile to say things like, "He was so fast, nobody could touch him..." when he clearly got "touched" and even knocked down during his physical prime. Often times it was by fighters who weren't strong or powerful, they just knew how to close the gap. All of the speed in the world doesn't mean anything if a decent fighter knows how to close the gap. Yes, Ali was a master of creating disadvantages for his opponents, but he wasn't invincible. He was just a man like every one of his opponents. Sometimes his opponents were capable of proving that Ali was no more than a man. A man with an incredible set of gifts, but a man nonetheless.

I normally agree with you Butterfly, but you really stretched to make this case.

cute post brassangel, but ali was never floored in his physical prime, and they were flash knockdowns. and the only reason why jones made it close was because clay fought jones's fight, clay didn't fight clay's fight. it's clear that clay fought sonny liston differently than he fought jones. if clay fought liston the same way he fought jones, he would be ko'd in the first round! clay was just avoiding liston's punches and countering, and when liston was vulnerable he threw rapid fire combinations. when he fought jones, he didn't think much of him, "i'm not concerned with doug jones, it's sonny liston i'm after, i'm not worried about that bum doug jones, i'm only concerned with that big ugly bear liston!" clay just tried to take him out, by fighting in close from the first bell, and it backfired! also clay was the number two contender, not number one, floyd patterson was number one. and i never said ali was perfect, i'm just saying that in his prime he was so fast that it didn't matter.

Dempsey 1919
12-25-2005, 10:54 PM
if u wanna watch some1 dance around the ring why dont u look at a ballet. :rolleyes:

hahahaha, funny. let me ask you a question. how many people have been successful copying tyson's style? quite a few, i mean tyson was freakishly strong, so he hit harder but that's it. but how many people have been successful copying ali's style? answer? NONE! why? because ali had natural speed nobody else has! so you can't fight like ali and not get hit unless you are extremely fast. so ali's style is one of a kind, so it is better, ahahahahahaha!!

Verstyle
12-25-2005, 11:19 PM
hahahaha, funny. let me ask you a question. how many people have been successful copying tyson's style? quite a few, i mean tyson was freakishly strong, so he hit harder but that's it. but how many people have been successful copying ali's style? answer? NONE! why? because ali had natural speed nobody else has! so you can't fight like ali and not get hit unless you are extremely fast. so ali's style is one of a kind, so it is better, ahahahahahaha!!


name 2 ppl that have been successful with tyson's style and i'll leave the forum for the nite.and thats after tyson not before

Pugnacious_Z
12-25-2005, 11:27 PM
every1 knows tysons style is one of the hardest styles to mimick. your constantly moving your body to avoid punches and counter which makes u very very tired if you ever tried it. Ali's style is alot easier, and every1 can go back to a punch, dats the easiest way to do it. an average persons normal reaction to defending a punch is goin backwards. no one naturally moves side to side and bobs and weaves, no one. Tyson style is the most exciting, he cums in aggresively and puts pressure on you very effecitively.
i think it depends on the person, butterly, u said the first time you saw ali and tyson, u liked to fight like ali. the first time i saw all fighters i liked tyson, liston and foreman. as u can see all power punchers. i dont know wat type of person you are but im more into strength, dats prob why i like those guys and their styles.

Dempsey 1919
12-25-2005, 11:36 PM
every1 knows tysons style is one of the hardest styles to mimick. your constantly moving your body to avoid punches and counter which makes u very very tired if you ever tried it. Ali's style is alot easier, and every1 can go back to a punch, dats the easiest way to do it. an average persons normal reaction to defending a punch is goin backwards. no one naturally moves side to side and bobs and weaves, no one. Tyson style is the most exciting, he cums in aggresively and puts pressure on you very effecitively.
i think it depends on the person, butterly, u said the first time you saw ali and tyson, u liked to fight like ali. the first time i saw all fighters i liked tyson, liston and foreman. as u can see all power punchers. i dont know wat type of person you are but im more into strength, dats prob why i like those guys and their styles.

i don't think so. ali is dancing constantly dancing and moving in and out popping jabs and hooks. tyson only moves when someone throws a punch at him. ali moves period. even when ali is flatfooted, he is still moving fast, just not as fast as when he dances, just watch the patterson fight. he is flatfooted alot in that fight, and he moves his back foot to the left and his front foot forward constantly to corner patterson to hit him with hard fast jabs.

Verstyle
12-25-2005, 11:48 PM
i don't think so. ali is dancing constantly dancing and moving in and out popping jabs and hooks. tyson only moves when someone throws a punch at him. ali moves period. even when ali is flatfooted, he is still moving fast, just not as fast as when he dances, just watch the patterson fight. he is flatfooted alot in that fight, and he moves his back foot to the left and his front foot forward constantly to corner patterson to hit him with hard fast jabs.


WRONG!!!! once again look at the mitch green fight. get this k.http://www.tysontalk.com/esolution_goods-61.html there now u can see why i recommended this fight 2 in this forum. ;)

Dempsey 1919
12-25-2005, 11:50 PM
WRONG!!!! once again look at the mitch green fight. get this k.http://www.tysontalk.com/esolution_goods-61.html there now u can see why i recommended this fight 2 in this forum. ;)

but ali moved way more than tyson did.

Pugnacious_Z
12-25-2005, 11:53 PM
bobing and weaving fast and slippin punches is alot more tiring then moving ur feet

Verstyle
12-25-2005, 11:53 PM
but ali moved way more than tyson did.


watch the fight. ;)

Verstyle
12-25-2005, 11:54 PM
normally i do tyson's style but one time for fun i tryed ali's style ****in piece of cake didnt really get tired at all. it doesnt take alot of wind to move your head back outta the way of punches ;) sparring that is

Verstyle
12-25-2005, 11:57 PM
plus every1 know's if your aggressive u get tired quicker. u try to use power punches for 2 rounds of sparring while being aggressive and do ali's little dancin after u do tyson's for 2 rounds then u will see what i mean about gettin tired. cause i get **** exhusted when doin the peek a boo style but every1 thinks its my stamina but it isnt it's jus that style is ****in tiring. and im still waitin on the two fighters that were successful with tyson's style after tyson :rolleyes:

Dempsey 1919
12-26-2005, 12:03 AM
normally i do tyson's style but one time for fun i tryed ali's style ****in piece of cake didnt really get tired at all. it doesnt take alot of wind to move your head back outta the way of punches ;) sparring that is

you are either lying, did it for only a couple of rounds, or didn't do it right. you can't really do it right away. it took me about a month to perfect ali's style and do it exactly the way he did it in his prime, so you probably didn't do it right.

Dempsey 1919
12-26-2005, 12:04 AM
plus every1 know's if your aggressive u get tired quicker. u try to use power punches for 2 rounds of sparring while being aggressive and do ali's little dancin after u do tyson's for 2 rounds then u will see what i mean about gettin tired. cause i get **** exhusted when doin the peek a boo style but every1 thinks its my stamina but it isnt it's jus that style is ****in tiring. and im still waitin on the two fighters that were successful with tyson's style after tyson :rolleyes:

alright, you win, but i still think it's easier to copy tyson's style than ali's.

Verstyle
12-26-2005, 12:14 AM
you are either lying, did it for only a couple of rounds, or didn't do it right. you can't really do it right away. it took me about a month to perfect ali's style and do it exactly the way he did it in his prime, so you probably didn't do it right.


now your lying. i still havnt perfected tyson's style and i've been doing it for over a year :eek: ppl's style take time cause of the different curcumstances and **** like how u get punched and so on and so on.but tyson's style is difficult to mimic lst u gotta have ko power in both hand and 2nd u gotta have so big strong as legs to generate all that power. thats why cus said that style is usually meant for small stocky ppl. :)

Verstyle
12-26-2005, 12:15 AM
alright, you win, but i still think it's easier to copy tyson's style than ali's.


plus tyson had different methods of gettin in. i mean with ali circling around and jabbing all while tryin to stay in the middle of the ring shouldnt be that hard ya know. :rolleyes:

Pugnacious_Z
12-26-2005, 12:27 AM
ive sparred using alis type of style, not exactly ofcaorse. just dancing around the ring and jabbing and throwing rights and leaning away from punches, its like givin ur body a rest. its easy to dance around the ring and throw ur arms around not putin ur body into the punches. but its very hard and tiring to put your whole body into every punch you throw and move your upperbody around all the time.

Dempsey 1919
12-26-2005, 12:33 AM
now your lying. i still havnt perfected tyson's style and i've been doing it for over a year :eek: ppl's style take time cause of the different curcumstances and **** like how u get punched and so on and so on.but tyson's style is difficult to mimic lst u gotta have ko power in both hand and 2nd u gotta have so big strong as legs to generate all that power. thats why cus said that style is usually meant for small stocky ppl. :)

how am i lying? i'm talking about ali's style not tyson's.

Dempsey 1919
12-26-2005, 12:34 AM
plus tyson had different methods of gettin in. i mean with ali circling around and jabbing all while tryin to stay in the middle of the ring shouldnt be that hard ya know. :rolleyes:

yeah, but to do it at the same speed that ali did it, that's what makes it difficult.

Verstyle
12-26-2005, 12:37 AM
how am i lying? i'm talking about ali's style not tyson's.


u said in a month. i bet it didnt take ali a year to get that style that he had down now how the **** can u get it COMPLETLY down in a month :confused:

Dempsey 1919
12-26-2005, 12:37 AM
ive sparred using alis type of style, not exactly ofcaorse. just dancing around the ring and jabbing and throwing rights and leaning away from punches, its like givin ur body a rest. its easy to dance around the ring and throw ur arms around not putin ur body into the punches. but its very hard and tiring to put your whole body into every punch you throw and move your upperbody around all the time.

i understand that, but that's probably not the exact style because:

1. it's probably not as fast.
2. you probably didn't do the exact things ali did with his feet, hands, and head.
3. can you do the ali shuffle? lol!

tell me exactly what you did with your feet, head, and hands, when you "used" ali's style.

Verstyle
12-26-2005, 12:38 AM
yeah, but to do it at the same speed that ali did it, that's what makes it difficult.


tyson was jus as fast as ali and thats with throwin power punches not lil slap punches that ali threw alot

Dempsey 1919
12-26-2005, 12:40 AM
u said in a month. i bet it didnt take ali a year to get that style that he had down now how the **** can u get it COMPLETLY down in a month :confused:

because he made it up as he went along. all i did was watch a fight (or fights) in his prime like in 1966 or 1967, when his style was perfect, and i just copied that. it's like eliminating the middle man hehe! :p

Dempsey 1919
12-26-2005, 12:42 AM
tyson was jus as fast as ali and thats with throwin power punches not lil slap punches that ali threw alot

no way tyson was as fast as ali. watch the liston and patterson fights. patterson and liston are fast punchers and they couldn't hit ali, so that's saying something. name fighters like those tyson fought that tyson still slipped their punches and hit them at will.

Verstyle
12-26-2005, 12:42 AM
because he made it up as he went along. all i did was watch a fight (or fights) in his prime like in 1966 or 1967, when his style was perfect, and i just copied that. it's like eliminating the middle man hehe! :p


how big r u?????

Dempsey 1919
12-26-2005, 12:44 AM
how big r u?????

i'm 5'-11 1/2" and 177lbs., with a 77" reach. but i'm still growing.

Verstyle
12-26-2005, 12:50 AM
i'm 5'-11 1/2" and 177lbs., with a 77" reach. but i'm still growing.


hmmmmmm. wasnt ali 6'2????? prime 206lb's?????

Dempsey 1919
12-26-2005, 12:51 AM
hmmmmmm. wasnt ali 6'2????? prime 206lb's?????

6'-3 1/2" and 212 3/4lbs. what's your point?

Verstyle
12-26-2005, 12:53 AM
6'-3 1/2" and 212 3/4lbs. what's your point?


hmmmmmm juuuuuuus askin

Dempsey 1919
12-26-2005, 01:00 AM
hmmmmmm juuuuuuus askin

oh, well i'm still growing, so i hope to be 6'-3" just like ali and then i'll fill out to be 210lb. by the time i'm 19, which is less than two years, and then i'll have the exact body of muhammad ali!

Verstyle
12-26-2005, 01:08 AM
oh, well i'm still growing, so i hope to be 6'-3" just like ali and then i'll fill out to be 210lb. by the time i'm 19, which is less than two years, and then i'll have the exact body of muhammad ali!


i talk to this guy thats 6'2 190lbs and he's only 16 :eek: with muscle i would like to add ;)

Dempsey 1919
12-26-2005, 01:12 AM
i talk to this guy thats 6'2 190lbs and he's only 16 :eek: with muscle i would like to add ;)

well, he's only 16 so his body will gain more weight naturally as he matures, cause 190 is too little, unless his sport reqiures a lanky build.

Verstyle
12-26-2005, 01:25 AM
well, he's only 16 so his body will gain more weight naturally as he matures, cause 190 is too little, unless his sport reqiures a lanky build.


he's in boxin but he leaves in iceland. that ****in suxs

Dempsey 1919
12-26-2005, 01:30 AM
he's in boxin but he leaves in iceland. that ****in suxs

so you want to be a hw?

Verstyle
12-26-2005, 01:37 AM
so you want to be a hw?


u askin if i wanna be a hw???????

Dempsey 1919
12-26-2005, 01:47 AM
u askin if i wanna be a hw???????

yeah, i mean you box, right?

Verstyle
12-26-2005, 01:50 AM
yeah, i mean you box, right?


im not big enough to be a hw :lol1: i'm only 5'5 155lbs not a chance in hell.ahaha

Pugnacious_Z
12-26-2005, 02:06 AM
hjey butterfly, how do u expect to gain 20pounds in 2 yrs naturally man? your 5"11.5, ur not gona grow 3.5 inches in couple years, its rare. im 5ft 11" and im nearly 17 and i expcet to grow to 6ft max

Dempsey 1919
12-26-2005, 02:06 AM
im not big enough to be a hw :lol1: i'm only 5'5 155lbs not a chance in hell.ahaha

oh, so youre like a middleweight?

Verstyle
12-26-2005, 02:14 AM
oh, so youre like a middleweight?


without train yeah. i've been outta shape for some months. but if i get in shape i can get down to the 140 probably.but i have alot of mass as u see in some of my avatar pictures

Dempsey 1919
12-26-2005, 02:30 AM
without train yeah. i've been outta shape for some months. but if i get in shape i can get down to the 140 probably.but i have alot of mass as u see in some of my avatar pictures

what other sports you like?

leff
12-26-2005, 07:26 AM
you never fought ali.

you perfectly understood what i meant.

M26
12-26-2005, 08:10 AM
I think both styles are very entertaining to watch. But for me it's always more entertaining to watch the ko artists, such as Tyson. With speed, explosiveness and raw power, he came charging after his foes with the intention to maul. Now THAT'S entertainment! :boxing:

Watching Muhammad Ali is more like watching an artist performing some kind of beautiful dance. It is awesome and fascinating, and I love it, but in terms of pure entertainment, I give the nod to Tyson and his style.

Brassangel
12-26-2005, 12:20 PM
That's your reply to my lengthy post? "Ali wasn't concerned with Doug Jones..." That's it, huh. Well, then that shows a lack of concentration, or an excuse rather, for Ali when his arrogance caught him off guard. Granted, when he got his stuff together, he pulled off the fight against a vastly inferior opponent. And you can't pass all of this "phantom" or "shadow" knockdown garbage to defend the fact that he just got smacked. It's possible for any fighter to get knocked down cleanly, and he did. Patterson and Liston were well beyond their years when they fought the prime Ali. They didn't have the body movement, foot speed, hand speed, or explosiveness that Mike Tyson had, even in their primes. Ali never took on a fighter that remotely resembled the damage Tyson could do to a dancer, except maybe Frazier when he was likely beyond his years as well. Ali was still the faster fighter than Frazier, but Joe marked him up pretty bad in all three fights. As both were past their primes by the time they met, it's safe to assume from an analysts standpoint that their prime fights wouldn't have been much different.

By the way, are you 17-18 years old? That hardly makes you the "check-in" guy when it comes to Ali. Anybody who has fought like Ali since his time, or anybody who has tried his style out who visits this forum doesn't have to answer to you to make sure that they got it right. Ali's style is far easier to grasp for the average person than Tyson's is. The natural inclination of anyone in the ring is to move clockwise, like dancing in a ballroom; and it's more instinctive to rear your head away from a punch instead of attempting to counter or move side-to-side. Ali got away with it because a.) he was fast, but not of inhuman speed; and b.) he was taller than almost every opponent he faced which meant that his opponents had to punch upwards, taking away from their own reach. Since he hardly fought guys who could cut off the ring (and when he did, he got hit mind you), this was an important factor in tiring out weaker opponents.

Ali's style doesn't take hardly any energy to use, which is why he used it to tire out his opponents. Mike's style was very tiring and risky, and he still clobbered people with it. Often times he would have to go into later rounds, and he'd still be firing cannonballs as though it was the first round.

Again, while Ali was fast, he's still human. He wasn't so fast that no one could hit him, because he got hit. That's okay to admit, because Ali is human. Tyson was incredibly faster than any volume power puncher before him. Not just his hands, his feet and body movement were often what caught people standing still. It's not because they were bums; in fact, the average fighter in the 80's was faster than the average fighter in the 60's and 70's, but they didn't expect this short, stocky man with fists of dynamite to cover half of the ring in a split second. Even when they were ready for it, he still found a way to trap people. Getting cornered wasn't one of Ali's strengths in the 60's, because he hoped to just lean out of the way or dance to the left to avoid a shot. Mike's small, leveraged arms also gave him the advantage of being able to sneak shots into places where other fighters couldn't. It was more difficult to gauge where Mike's shots were going to come from as opposed to a guy like Liston, who had a gigantic reach (mostly nullified due to Ali's height), which caused many of his punches to be telegraphed. Anyone who has written about fighting against Liston will attest to this.

Height was a big deal for Tyson to overcome when he was priming, as he gave up inches to nearly everyone. Even so, he pulled it off better than anyone before him, and he did so impressively. A lot of this can be credited to his speed. He could cut off the ring against anyone human, which would include Ali. ***Again, I believe Ali would beat Mike 2/3 times, but still, for arguments' sake, it's best to be neutral and approach from both sides of the plate***

While Ali was the fastest of his day, there may have been several fighters who could have nullified even The Greatest's speed with their own in the 80's. Ali was the fastest fighter up to that point; but even Roy Jones Jr. at heavyweight, and well beyond his prime has clocked faster hand speed than Ali did in the 60's. While Ali's style was energy conserving, giving him more of an advantage as the fight went on, that doesn't mean that he was actually faster than any other heavyweight who ever stepped into the ring. Perception is everything, and controlling a fight the way Ali did proved that he not only had considerable speed, but it looked as though he had more speed than was actually present. This is just science.

Mike's style, however, required him to overcome far more than Ali's did. Combined with his own speed, which people hadn't seen since the likes of Ali, and his explosiveness, we effectively had the most exciting fighter to watch in the history of the sport. Which is of course, what this thread is all about: excitement.

Verstyle
12-26-2005, 02:50 PM
what other sports you like?


i used to do high school wrestling for 2years and track for 7years. and I loved playin football but I really never played in school

M26
12-26-2005, 02:59 PM
That's your reply to my lengthy post? "Ali wasn't concerned with Doug Jones..." That's it, huh. Well, then that shows a lack of concentration, or an excuse rather, for Ali when his arrogance caught him off guard. Granted, when he got his stuff together, he pulled off the fight against a vastly inferior opponent. And you can't pass all of this "phantom" or "shadow" knockdown garbage to defend the fact that he just got smacked. It's possible for any fighter to get knocked down cleanly, and he did. Patterson and Liston were well beyond their years when they fought the prime Ali. They didn't have the body movement, foot speed, hand speed, or explosiveness that Mike Tyson had, even in their primes. Ali never took on a fighter that remotely resembled the damage Tyson could do to a dancer, except maybe Frazier when he was likely beyond his years as well. Ali was still the faster fighter than Frazier, but Joe marked him up pretty bad in all three fights. As both were past their primes by the time they met, it's safe to assume from an analysts standpoint that their prime fights wouldn't have been much different.

By the way, are you 17-18 years old? That hardly makes you the "check-in" guy when it comes to Ali. Anybody who has fought like Ali since his time, or anybody who has tried his style out who visits this forum doesn't have to answer to you to make sure that they got it right. Ali's style is far easier to grasp for the average person than Tyson's is. The natural inclination of anyone in the ring is to move clockwise, like dancing in a ballroom; and it's more instinctive to rear your head away from a punch instead of attempting to counter or move side-to-side. Ali got away with it because a.) he was fast, but not of inhuman speed; and b.) he was taller than almost every opponent he faced which meant that his opponents had to punch upwards, taking away from their own reach. Since he hardly fought guys who could cut off the ring (and when he did, he got hit mind you), this was an important factor in tiring out weaker opponents.

Ali's style doesn't take hardly any energy to use, which is why he used it to tire out his opponents. Mike's style was very tiring and risky, and he still clobbered people with it. Often times he would have to go into later rounds, and he'd still be firing cannonballs as though it was the first round.

Again, while Ali was fast, he's still human. He wasn't so fast that no one could hit him, because he got hit. That's okay to admit, because Ali is human. Tyson was incredibly faster than any volume power puncher before him. Not just his hands, his feet and body movement were often what caught people standing still. It's not because they were bums; in fact, the average fighter in the 80's was faster than the average fighter in the 60's and 70's, but they didn't expect this short, stocky man with fists of dynamite to cover half of the ring in a split second. Even when they were ready for it, he still found a way to trap people. Getting cornered wasn't one of Ali's strengths in the 60's, because he hoped to just lean out of the way or dance to the left to avoid a shot. Mike's small, leveraged arms also gave him the advantage of being able to sneak shots into places where other fighters couldn't. It was more difficult to gauge where Mike's shots were going to come from as opposed to a guy like Liston, who had a gigantic reach (mostly nullified due to Ali's height), which caused many of his punches to be telegraphed. Anyone who has written about fighting against Liston will attest to this.

Height was a big deal for Tyson to overcome when he was priming, as he gave up inches to nearly everyone. Even so, he pulled it off better than anyone before him, and he did so impressively. A lot of this can be credited to his speed. He could cut off the ring against anyone human, which would include Ali. ***Again, I believe Ali would beat Mike 2/3 times, but still, for arguments' sake, it's best to be neutral and approach from both sides of the plate***

While Ali was the fastest of his day, there may have been several fighters who could have nullified even The Greatest's speed with their own in the 80's. Ali was the fastest fighter up to that point; but even Roy Jones Jr. at heavyweight, and well beyond his prime has clocked faster hand speed than Ali did in the 60's. While Ali's style was energy conserving, giving him more of an advantage as the fight went on, that doesn't mean that he was actually faster than any other heavyweight who ever stepped into the ring. Perception is everything, and controlling a fight the way Ali did proved that he not only had considerable speed, but it looked as though he had more speed than was actually present. This is just science.

Mike's style, however, required him to overcome far more than Ali's did. Combined with his own speed, which people hadn't seen since the likes of Ali, and his explosiveness, we effectively had the most exciting fighter to watch in the history of the sport. Which is of course, what this thread is all about: excitement.

A very good post! :)

How ever, I have to point out that Joe Frazier definitely was in his prime when he fought Muhammad Ali the first time. This was his "prime fight". He was probably never better than he was in this fight.

Further, Mike Tyson lost much of his explosiveness beyond round 5. He could still knock you cold, but not like "it was the first round".

This is not to take anything away from your arguments though.

Verstyle
12-26-2005, 03:06 PM
A very good post! :)

How ever, I have to point out that Joe Frazier definitely was in his prime when he fought Muhammad Ali the first time. This was his "prime fight". He was probably never better than he was in this fight.

Further, Mike Tyson lost much of his explosiveness beyond round 5. He could still knock you cold, but not like "it was the first round".

This is not to take anything away from your arguments though.


actually if u watch the tony tucker fight he stays the same the whole fight. Thats why its my favorite of all timee cause he really doesnt tire

Southpaw Stinger
12-26-2005, 03:36 PM
Ali in his prime was really entertaining. Tyson was entertaining in a different way so I like em both. I like Ali better though!

blockhead
12-26-2005, 04:52 PM
tyson was boring when he was good because he won too fast. the only fight that was exciting that i saw tyson fight was against douglas. so ali.

supaduck
12-26-2005, 06:40 PM
I disagree, it was entertaining to watch him dispose of his opponents quickly (i.e spinks), it made him ****ing seem so awesome that nobody could beat him... Until he slipped up and went downhill.

Ali was a much more exciting fighter overall. But i'd have to say I enjoy watching Tyson more. He was ****ing like a mighty midget (compared to his 6'3 foes).

Brassangel
12-27-2005, 04:34 PM
Thank you for reading my entire post. I would like to point out that many qualified critics, certainly more qualified than we are, agree that both Frazier and Ali were just a pinch beyond their best when they met for the first time. Frazier just had more longevity in his career. Joe Frazier looked really good in some of his later fights when compared to Ali (except vs. Foreman). In fact, most boxing analysts say that Ali had the most disappointing twilight fights they ever paid money to see. It was basically a travelling circus to get Ali to fight all over the world. Nonetheless, his career outlasted Tyson's by a mile.

The excitement Tyson brought to the sport was enormous. None before or after drew crowds as large, or as many viewers. There was an equal impact when Tyson started to crumble in 1989. A huge chunk of fans left for things like Nascar (*shudders*) when Tyson wasn't fighting with heart anymore. His decline wouldn't have been as saddening had he not brought so much excitement to begin with. With Ali, people were just wondering when he (Ali) was going to realize what everybody else was asking: when is he finally going to hang up the gloves? Ali's career slowly built up in volume and faded out drearily. Tyson's exploded onto the scene and had the rug pulled out from under it in a heartbeat.

Muhammad Ali's career was like an ice cream cone: At first, it's smooth, picturesque, and could lure in even the hardest of hearts. Every now and then in drips on you, but it sure tastes sweet. Once you start reaching the end, the crunchy part isn't as good as the ice cream itself, but you might as well eat it anyway.

Mike Tyson's career was like an orgasm without the build-up: It hits hard, it hits fast, it gets a person fired up....and then it leaves, and no one wants sex anymore.

Dempsey 1919
12-27-2005, 05:13 PM
By the way, are you 17-18 years old? That hardly makes you the "check-in" guy when it comes to Ali. Anybody who has fought like Ali since his time, or anybody who has tried his style out who visits this forum doesn't have to answer to you to make sure that they got it right.

what, are you intimidated because a 17yr. old knows more about ali than anyone here? haha, i got people shaking in their boots cause i'm more ali knowledgeable than them and i'm still a minor! Pwned! sometimes i amaze even myself sometimes lol!

Dempsey 1919
12-27-2005, 05:17 PM
Thank you for reading my entire post. I would like to point out that many qualified critics, certainly more qualified than we are, agree that both Frazier and Ali were just a pinch beyond their best when they met for the first time. Frazier just had more longevity in his career. Joe Frazier looked really good in some of his later fights when compared to Ali (except vs. Foreman). In fact, most boxing analysts say that Ali had the most disappointing twilight fights they ever paid money to see. It was basically a travelling circus to get Ali to fight all over the world. Nonetheless, his career outlasted Tyson's by a mile.

The excitement Tyson brought to the sport was enormous. None before or after drew crowds as large, or as many viewers. There was an equal impact when Tyson started to crumble in 1989. A huge chunk of fans left for things like Nascar (*shudders*) when Tyson wasn't fighting with heart anymore. His decline wouldn't have been as saddening had he not brought so much excitement to begin with. With Ali, people were just wondering when he (Ali) was going to realize what everybody else was asking: when is he finally going to hang up the gloves? Ali's career slowly built up in volume and faded out drearily. Tyson's exploded onto the scene and had the rug pulled out from under it in a heartbeat.

Muhammad Ali's career was like an ice cream cone: At first, it's smooth, picturesque, and could lure in even the hardest of hearts. Every now and then in drips on you, but it sure tastes sweet. Once you start reaching the end, the crunchy part isn't as good as the ice cream itself, but you might as well eat it anyway.

Mike Tyson's career was like an orgasm without the build-up: It hits hard, it hits fast, it gets a person fired up....and then it leaves, and no one wants sex anymore.

funny post, but true.

Brassangel
12-27-2005, 05:39 PM
I think so, and I'll thank you for suggestion as such.

I do have one more analogy, a little less comical:

Muhammad Ali's career was like a Monet; beautiful, if even poetic, while a little sloppy at times. They got worse as time wore on, but people will always pay to see impressionistic work.

Mike Tyson's career was like a Bob Ross; while it looks good on paper, it only takes 20 minutes to finish.