I think so.

No. Lewis does not need to prove anything to anyone. Been there, done that. As he said himself.

No. Lewis does not need to prove anything to anyone. Been there, done that. As he said himself.
I have to agree w/ the liberal snaggle tooth here. Lennox was gonna retire, now if he were to fight another guy after the 1st fight then YES, but he retired w/ his brain and legacy intact. ;)

I have to agree w/ the liberal snaggle tooth here. Lennox was gonna retire, now if he were to fight another guy after the 1st fight then YES, but he retired w/ his brain and legacy intact. ;)

Brain - yes, legacy is being questioned and will be until the big "what if the fight with VK continued?" is resolved. IMO it never will be, so I don't think he "cemented" his legacy as he could have.

it's pretty clear to me that lewis won, so no, he doesn't have to give a rematch. but as a sportsman, an entertainer, and a competitor, i think he should, cause everyone wants to see it happen

Lewis won... LOLOL not by points at the time.. he retired cause he is scared of Vitali.

but wait, he did 'win'
:D

lewis had nothing else to prove! He cut the hell out of vitalys eye and it was only a matter of time before vitay was out of gas.

if that was an ordinary HW match, Lewis would have lost due to the cut he put on VK's eye. It would have gone to the cards, and he would have lost. The only thing that helped him win was the fact that in a Championship match...
or is that only with headbutts? now I think I'm confusing myself.. I think I remember the commentators talking about it after the fight. As far as I remember, a champion cannot loose a belt if the fight is forced to go to the cards, due to injury. But otherwise in a non-championship fight, it goes to the cards...

any boxing rules buffs out there care to clarify?

:confused:

When Joe Louis planned on retiring he took on Joe Wolcott as his last fight, but the fight didn't go Louis's way. Everybody who saw it knew that Wolcott won, but the SD went to Louis. At that point, Louis could have retired, but he didn't, instead he gave Wolcott a rematch and knocked him out.

That is the way I wish Lennox Lewis would have handled the situation.

I think Lennox knew he almost done after the first Klitcshko fight so instead of fighting him again and possibly losing he went out as champ.

Man, this forum is full of jealous yanks who cannot accept the fact that a Brit was the heavyweight champ. Thats right, you heard right: A Brit. You yanks thing you got a God damn right to own the heavyweight division.

lewis should give vitali a rematch but he never will because he to old and hes afraid of him

Smart move for Lewis. But a lot thinks, or would think, that smart move is just a tamed heart. Though I do like to see him comeback just to see if he can put some light into the division. But if he can't, that's just fine with me. But I don't think him coming back just to lose won't really damage his rep (well, maybe just a little bit). Look at Holyfield. Fans won't remember him as the guy who was beat by John "The Most Hated" Ruiz and some other journeyman.

I don't think Lewis was scared of Klitschko at all. As far as I see it, Lewis wasn't really interested in fighting after the Tyson fight and the fact that he'd have to train his ass off for a rematch which he didn't need (for money or legacy), combined with the other things he wants out of life pushed him into retirement.

Lewis is an all time great, and anyone that argues otherwise is being biased IMO. I'd like to see a rematch, but what's the point for Lewis? At his best he would have beaten Klitschko convincingly, so it would just be a question of how far Lewis has slipped.

Man, this forum is full of jealous yanks who cannot accept the fact that a Brit was the heavyweight champ. Thats right, you heard right: A Brit. You yanks thing you got a God damn right to own the heavyweight division.

What the hell does wishing your Brit would of gave a Ukrainian a rematch have to do with Yanks thinking they own the belt, and this is coming from a Canadian.Lewis chickened out and now even worse he's beaking off from the safety of a commentators chair with absolutly no guts to ever give Vitali a rematch.It will forever be a footnote to his so called legacy.

why? Because he's got the sense to call it a day when his skills are declining, his weight increasing and his motivation dwindling?

Do you think a fully motivated and prepared Lewis in his prime would lose to Klitschko?

A fully prepared Lewis could have lost to anyone, at anytime. He had alot of fights where he was rocked and beaten around the ring, and came back to win, which says alot for his will to win, but very little for his skills. After his carreer has ended, with him suffering one-punch knockout losses on two separate occasions, one could say that in those other fights, he was always one punch away from being knocked out. We all know he his big dream was to retire as champion, but after the narrow escape with the belts from the Klitschko fight, in which he was rocked and beaten up, and after two uppercuts in separate rounds that everyone seems so excited about, he spent the last minute of the sixth round on the ropes, with VK splitting his guard with jabs and right hands, he took the coward's way out. Tell me, if you are the champeon, and basically get your ass kicked in a title defense, but are able to win the fight on a technicality, and wanted to be recognized as an all time great, wouldn't it matter more that everyone knew that you retired with no question marks over your head, no unfinished bussiness, than just the fact that you were still champ when you retired? I mean, he was getting his ass beat in the last round of the fight, the note the fight ended on was him being hit repeatedly, up against the ropes, not punching back, how could anyone with any pride claim that as a win? It's simple, he wasn't sure he could beat VK, that's why he looked for excuses, made a big hoopla about VK's eye not being ready, and then retired when the doctors said it was OK.

No. Lewis does not need to prove anything to anyone. Been there, done that. As he said himself.


...Yeah, but the "been there done that" comment was actually in the context of the question "Lennox, would you ever do gay **** and swallow another mans load"? HBO edited the crucial question right out of the interview and cut and pasted his comments. Damn you HBO!!!

Re: Hollister: Sorry but that's just wrong. I see what you're saying but that just isn't what happened in the fight - watch it again.

An accurate description of the last 20 seconds of the fight would be:
Grappling . . . Lewis right to the body, right to the head . . . Klitschko leans right into Lewis, onto ropes then onto Lewis again . . . . both stumble full length of the ring as Klitschko leans into Lewis . . . ref splits them . . . Jab by Lewis that half connects, followed by right uppercut by Lewis.

I can't remember if it was a full minute or not, but the last part of that round, Lewis was on the ropes, plain as day, getting hit. Yeah, I know it got real sloppy in the sixth round, but I can hardly see where Lewis did enough to justify all the Lewis fans saying he was going to knock VK out, he was clearly losing the fight at that point, and appeared to be going downhill. I can accept the fact that VK lost the fight, but some people are saying that VK doesn't deserve a rematch, like it was a shutout or something, to me that couldn't be farther from the truth. I'm sure I'm incorrect on how long he was on the ropes, but I've seen it too many times to be that far off on what actually happened. I mean, his carreer ended with him on the ropes, who would want it to end that way? And to shamelessly claim it as a real win in front of millions of people who all saw what happened, and basically "escape" with the belts, just for the sake of saying he retired as champ, that's just gay IMO.

A fully prepared Lewis could have lost to anyone, at anytime. He had alot of fights where he was rocked and beaten around the ring, and came back to win, which says alot for his will to win, but very little for his skills. After his carreer has ended, with him suffering one-punch knockout losses on two separate occasions, one could say that in those other fights, he was always one punch away from being knocked out. We all know he his big dream was to retire as champion, but after the narrow escape with the belts from the Klitschko fight, in which he was rocked and beaten up, and after two uppercuts in separate rounds that everyone seems so excited about, he spent the last minute of the sixth round on the ropes, with VK splitting his guard with jabs and right hands, he took the coward's way out. Tell me, if you are the champeon, and basically get your ass kicked in a title defense, but are able to win the fight on a technicality, and wanted to be recognized as an all time great, wouldn't it matter more that everyone knew that you retired with no question marks over your head, no unfinished bussiness, than just the fact that you were still champ when you retired? I mean, he was getting his ass beat in the last round of the fight, the note the fight ended on was him being hit repeatedly, up against the ropes, not punching back, how could anyone with any pride claim that as a win? It's simple, he wasn't sure he could beat VK, that's why he looked for excuses, made a big hoopla about VK's eye not being ready, and then retired when the doctors said it was OK.

Huh??? Lewis could have lost to anyone anytime??

Its obvious your a Lewis hater. No winning on cuts is not a "technicality".

if that was an ordinary HW match, Lewis would have lost due to the cut he put on VK's eye. It would have gone to the cards, and he would have lost. The only thing that helped him win was the fact that in a Championship match...
or is that only with headbutts? now I think I'm confusing myself.. I think I remember the commentators talking about it after the fight. As far as I remember, a champion cannot loose a belt if the fight is forced to go to the cards, due to injury. But otherwise in a non-championship fight, it goes to the cards...

any boxing rules buffs out there care to clarify?

No he would not have lost under any situation. The rules state in ANY fight championship or not if a fighter cannot continue due to a cut that is cause by a punch that fighters loses by TKO

There is no rule what so ever that says if a fight goes to the cards the champion keeps his belt. If there was a rule what would be the point of going to cards?

Klitschko deserved a rematch if Lewis hadn't retired no doubt about that. But to say Lewis owed it to Klitschko to go through all the training and have another fight when he didn' really have the motivation isn't really fair.
Did Klitschko put Lewis into retirement? Yes I suppose he did - if Lewis had KO'd him in the first round then I don't think he'd have retired. I think it was more out of laziness and indifference on Lewis's part. That might be too lazy for some, but I can understand wanting an easier life after 20 years of boxing, and with all that cash in the bank & a v sexy girlfriend.

people ***** and complain that Holyfield is ruining himself by staying around to long, but then turn around and ***** and complain that the 39 year old Lewis should have fought on.

He's 39, has all his brain cells, a new wife, a new daughter, more money than he knows what to do with.

Olympic Gold Medal
3 Time Champion
16 Title defenses

he has nothing to prove to anyone.

Hozay, he's ****ing retired, so now you can officially retire as that *****'s main nutwarmer, ok?

Winning a fight on cuts is a technicality, as it is a win that is the result of the cut rule being enforced, and I especially consider it a technicality when the fighter that benifits from it was clearly on the losing end of the fight. I never said Lewis ****ing lost the fight, I said I can't stand people saying VK didn't deserve a ****ing rematch, like he got spanked or something, you just get your ****ing dander up every time you see a post about your hero, or is it just every time I post about him? And I never wished that he would retire, I did wish that he would lose, but not retire. Hell, 39? As slow as he fights, he should be able to fight until he's 55. I think he has the right to retire whenever he so chooses, but the way he closed his carreer reeks of cowardess.

And yes, he could have lost to anyone that was able to land a big shot on his chin. He can take tremendous punches to the head, as long as they don't land right on the chin, and he has proven that he can be hit, he wasn't the most hittable heavy, but he was hittable, and that plus a less than granite chin makes my statement true. I don't hate him, but I am dissapointed in the way he retired.

Anyone watching the fight with an unbiased head could easily see that Lewis was in control of the late part of the last round.

The same people who complain the fight was stopped on cuts are also the same to jump for joy when Wladimir's last fight was stopped due to cuts and Wlad won.

There was more then one cut on the face of Vitali and his mouth was bleeding heavily as well. I'm tired of the could of and should of...the bottom line is he didnt. Vitali got caught with clean punches to create the facial damage and had one of worst cuts I have ever seen on a fighter.

The doctor and the ref wanted to stop the fight much earlier but decided to let it go a few rounds in order to give Vitali a chance.

The bottom line in this fight is Lennox taking a fight with only two weeks to train for Vitali, came in out of shape and still won.

While some could say Vitali had only two weeks to train as well, Lennox busted up Vitali like no man has done before or after him. Being a person that has the entire career of Lewis on tape, I can't even recall any other fight where Lewis did the type of damage that he did.

Lennox won the fight clean, he was due to retire prior to even facing Vitali. Did he owe Vitali a rematch?...No

And I am a MUCH bigger fan of Vitali then I ever was of Lewis. The loss was Vitali's fault, he had no reason to turn the fight into a brawl and he did because he got gun happy when Lewis was rocked in round two. Vitali had little to no defense in the fight and allowed Lewis to land the shots.

I think Lewis should have fought Vitali again. I don't think Vitali would have won....but if he had it would have legitimized him. I believe in providing lineage for the titles. Lewis owed the boxing fans that much at least.

Rick, You're only seeing what you want to see. There is no way you can say with a straight face that LL was in complete control of that fight, rounds 2 and 6 were his WORST rounds! When have you seen LL throw over, over, overhand rights that went above his own head? Those were "wishful thinking" punches, thrown by a struggling, desparate fighter. You can't seriously sit here and argue that LL was in control of the 6th round, he started out ok, but by the end of the round, he was surviving. Does he owe VK a rematch, no, of course not, but the way he retired, only after learning that doctors thought VK was ready to fight was out of fear, not of VK personally, but of losing his title, and having to try to get it back again. Face it, LL is a very arrogant man, and if he thought VK would be a cakewalk the second time around, he would have given VK the rematch.

I would have like to see the remach - but it is because I really never liked Lewis. I didn't like the way he fought Holy the first time - jab hug jab hug...not what you do to TAKE a champ's belt - I didn't like the way he fought Grant (punch to the back of the head...hold hit...hold rabbit punch). And YES he's a Brit (Ta se go hulk!) I don't hold it against any other people just the brits - not as individuals nessisarily, but definitley as a culture - sorry.
At the same time I think he was very good at using his size and he would fight the fights - although he was a once a year fighter. I really think that is tough on the Heavyweight division in general. Too few fights - I think they could fight at least twice a year. That was how Holmes did it and it killed heavyweight boxing in the early eighties. I think Lewis got bored and retired at a good time. If he would have went on he would have got caught again at some point - just the way it goes - I was just disapointed he didn't hang on till then - but again that was my own dislike for him - I do think he did the smart thing.

Rick, You're only seeing what you want to see. There is no way you can say with a straight face that LL was in complete control of that fight, rounds 2 and 6 were his WORST rounds! When have you seen LL throw over, over, overhand rights that went above his own head? Those were "wishful thinking" punches, thrown by a struggling, desparate fighter. You can't seriously sit here and argue that LL was in control of the 6th round, he started out ok, but by the end of the round, he was surviving. Does he owe VK a rematch, no, of course not, but the way he retired, only after learning that doctors thought VK was ready to fight was out of fear, not of VK personally, but of losing his title, and having to try to get it back again. Face it, LL is a very arrogant man, and if he thought VK would be a cakewalk the second time around, he would have given VK the rematch.

Don't create statements, I never said Lennox was in complete control of the fight and 6 was not his worst round of the fight. Lewis landed more punches in round 6 then most of the other rounds, including an uppercut that split Vitali's lip in half (required a decent amount of stiches to close.) At the end of the 6th, "both" guys were gassed but Lennox finished that round better. Vitali averaged over 70 punches per round, Lewis averaged 37 (20 of them being jabs)......the lowest output in the career of Lewis. Which means that Lewis weighing almost 260 pounds and barely throwing/landing any punches was able to damage Vitali the way he did why? The answer is simple, Vitali had no defense and made the fight a brawl when could of easily boxed and stayed away. He gave Lewis the chances by brawling and coming in close.

I doubt Lennox feared Vitali and that made him retire, people can wish for that but that is far from the truth. I'm sure Lennox saw Vitali as a big risk, I'm sure Lennox wasnt rushing to fight him again either. You could tell before and after the Vitali fight that Lennox lost his will to fight and to train. Vitali in reality had nothing to gain if Lennox fought him again, fat and throwing low numbers. People would just say Vitali beat an old out of shape Lennox and that would probably be true.

Lewis' best option was to quit on his feet unlike most fighters out there.

People would just say Vitali beat an old out of shape Lennox and that would probably be true.

Lewis' best option was to quit on his feet unlike most fighters out there.

Well said.

Due to cut LL won, but he dident beat Vit.

Vit won twice as many rounds, and no rick LL dident control the last round Vit won it.

Vit also had more gas left.

I got the tape of the fight and if i tune upp i can hear VK asking for a rematch and LL saying yes, but he wouldent say it clear in front off the cameras.

Som people say LL only had 2 weeks to prepare for VK but so did Vk to.

And LL was preparing for a better fighter than klitschko.

LL should have kept his word.

He should have answered the questions in a rematch and not be as big mouthed as he was after the fight, that was just ridiculos.

People might think that this is irrealovent but it's not! Lewis tried to sue Mike Tyson into rematching him saying that Tyson was costing him millions of dollars by not taking the fight! He was gaurenteed some 20 plus million to rematch Vitali! He beat the **** out of Tyson easily and wanted to take the easy rematch to make another huge payday for little effort! He did not want to earn his payday with a tuff fight with Vitali even though he would have made probably close to the same! To me this makes him a coward! Every time he was interviewed after he beat Tyson he said he would only fight for outrageous sums of money and Tyson was gonna take a few fights and then maybe rematch Lewis. So Lewis thought he would take an easy fight with Johnson to kind of stay sharp but ended up fighting Vitali, and Tyson wouldn't committ so Lewis bailed! Most of this is from articles I have read in the past on this sight and others, and I know some of you remember hearing this.

lewis had nothing else to prove! He cut the hell out of vitalys eye and it was only a matter of time before vitay was out of gas.


Total bull****, and the poll speaks for itself. 25-5 Lennox defniately should've gave him the rematch, like Holyfield gave him.

why? Because he's got the sense to call it a day when his skills are declining, his weight increasing and his motivation dwindling?

Do you think a fully motivated and prepared Lewis in his prime would lose to Klitschko?


To a fully motivated and prime Klitschko? Yes. Afterall didn't that Lewis already lose to Oliver Mc'Call?

people ***** and complain that Holyfield is ruining himself by staying around to long, but then turn around and ***** and complain that the 39 year old Lewis should have fought on.

He's 39, has all his brain cells, a new wife, a new daughter, more money than he knows what to do with.

Olympic Gold Medal
3 Time Champion
16 Title defenses

he has nothing to prove to anyone.

Lewis was 37 at the time. Holyfield when he was 37 held the WBA heavyweight title. Holyfield is 42 now, and should retire because he clearly has nothing left. Lewis on the other hand was the heavyweight champion having only one fight left in which he had the world to prove. Although he refused the rematch and sank into retirement, after sitting on the belt for more than a year, waisting everyones time. Dont try to compare Lewis back when he just finished his fight with Klitschko to the Holyfield of today, they are nothing alike.

Don't create statements, I never said Lennox was in complete control of the fight and 6 was not his worst round of the fight. Lewis landed more punches in round 6 then most of the other rounds, including an uppercut that split Vitali's lip in half (required a decent amount of stiches to close.) At the end of the 6th, "both" guys were gassed but Lennox finished that round better. Vitali averaged over 70 punches per round, Lewis averaged 37 (20 of them being jabs)......the lowest output in the career of Lewis. Which means that Lewis weighing almost 260 pounds and barely throwing/landing any punches was able to damage Vitali the way he did why? The answer is simple, Vitali had no defense and made the fight a brawl when could of easily boxed and stayed away. He gave Lewis the chances by brawling and coming in close.

I doubt Lennox feared Vitali and that made him retire, people can wish for that but that is far from the truth. I'm sure Lennox saw Vitali as a big risk, I'm sure Lennox wasnt rushing to fight him again either. You could tell before and after the Vitali fight that Lennox lost his will to fight and to train. Vitali in reality had nothing to gain if Lennox fought him again, fat and throwing low numbers. People would just say Vitali beat an old out of shape Lennox and that would probably be true.

Lewis' best option was to quit on his feet unlike most fighters out there.

The vitaly cheerleaders should take notes!

He should have cuz he said it but I wouldnt fault for not doing it. He wants to go out on a high notes, he'll go out on a high note. Still a man shouldn't back out of his word. He just should have said it in teh first place.

I'm sure I'll be hated and prolly sound like a little ***** after this post, but I just can't help speaking my mind...

-as far as the cut and how it was caused, whether to go to the score cards etc... It WAS a punch that caused it, but if you watch the tape closely (and if my eye sight was right and I'm correct) It was NOT the fair scoring area of the glove, rather the tape at the base of the glove, which would make it an accidental cut, like if it were an elbow that caused it, hence going to the scorecards. I'm sure this sounds nit-picky (can't believe I actually used that phrase), but IF a champion CAN loose a belt from an accidental cut going to the cards, it does hold SOME relivance. But I have been wrong before.. wouldn't be the first time, wouldn't be the last.

-something else to consider.. (DISCLAIMER: don't get me wrong at all. I'm not a racist. I have love for all people. If anything, I have a problem accepting and loving ignorant people that have too much pride for themselves and hate for others.)
When was the last white HW champion in boxing? IF Lenox did give VK a rematch and VK won, there could have been a chance that he would be remembered as the HW champ that lost the belt to a white boxer instead of being known for the legacy that he created and the acheivements that he succeeded in (I couldn't stand Lenox, but he does deserve credit for his boxing career.) Being that he retired and VK got the belt from a match with Sanders, Lenox was not to blame.

just something to think about... it may have crossed his mind at some point.

While I do think you are a racist bastard, I too am white and agree with you.

People still care what color the fighter is, and if 2004 had really gone the way it should have the 3 heavyweight title holders could have been Vitaly, Golata, and Wlad/Meehan. What a ruckus that would be.

However, with America's top athletes playing football and basketball, the champions of tomorrow are going to be coming from the old eastern european systems and africa, so there are going to be more Vitalys in the future.

The situation now with VK, is that if he fights Lewis and wins, his critics are going to say that he beat and old faded Lewis, and if, god forbid, he loses, they are going to say that he sucked all along and lost to an old LL. However, from a financial standpoint, it looks like LL is the best opportunity for VK to make some money.

The only thing VK can do right now is put together a ten or so fight win streak against the Rahmans, Bryds, etc of the world and maybe the critics will say he was the best 2000-2010.

I'm sorry, I don't care if he was the champ when he retired, I don't share Lewis' or his fans perception of him as a fighter, as a champion. He was a large fighter with decent skills, who was able to make good use of his size and strength, but he was also a dirty fighter, who lost to two journeymen by one-punch knockouts, and then "avenged" his losses against both of them in return matches where one fighter had a nervous breakdown in the ring and refused to fight him, and the other showed up, but sure as hell didn't appear to have any intentions of fighting. The fact that he retired as champ doesn't change that, nor does it change my perception of him as a fighter and a person. He acted like he was really ready to fight VK again, and wasted everyone's time, teasing them with the possibility of a rematch, and then ran with the title. And is it coincidence that it was after the only fight I can recall that he was behind on points and showing no signs of being able to turn the tide? Against McCall and Rahman, his losses came as the result of punches that basically came out of nowhere, in fights where he basically appeared to be holding his own, if not in complete control, whereas against VK, he was losing rounds, had been hurt, and was never able to take control of the fight. What I'm saying is he was losing in a way that can't be argued, you can say he was old, he didn't train, or whatever, but you can't say he wasn't losing. My problem isn't with VK losing the fight, it's with the way LL was still arrogant afterwards, shamelessly claiming the win and eventually refusing to fight VK again by retiring, while still basically talking **** about VK from the sidelines, and refusing to back it up.

that's the only thing that made me dislike Lewis.. his arrogance.
I just could NOT stand it.
it seemed to almost HURT him to give other boxers credit.

Should Vitor Belfort have given Randy Couture a rematch?

Sorry, didn't see that one. I also think that Wlad should have given Williamson a rematch, not because it would be a great fight, but because it seems cowardly not to.

I'm sure I'll be hated and prolly sound like a little ***** after this post, but I just can't help speaking my mind...

-as far as the cut and how it was caused, whether to go to the score cards etc... It WAS a punch that caused it, but if you watch the tape closely (and if my eye sight was right and I'm correct) It was NOT the fair scoring area of the glove, rather the tape at the base of the glove, which would make it an accidental cut, like if it were an elbow that caused it, hence going to the scorecards. I'm sure this sounds nit-picky (can't believe I actually used that phrase), but IF a champion CAN loose a belt from an accidental cut going to the cards, it does hold SOME relivance. But I have been wrong before.. wouldn't be the first time, wouldn't be the last.

-something else to consider.. (DISCLAIMER: don't get me wrong at all. I'm not a racist. I have love for all people. If anything, I have a problem accepting and loving ignorant people that have too much pride for themselves and hate for others.)
When was the last white HW champion in boxing? IF Lenox did give VK a rematch and VK won, there could have been a chance that he would be remembered as the HW champ that lost the belt to a white boxer instead of being known for the legacy that he created and the acheivements that he succeeded in (I couldn't stand Lenox, but he does deserve credit for his boxing career.) Being that he retired and VK got the belt from a match with Sanders, Lenox was not to blame.

just something to think about... it may have crossed his mind at some point.


...It not only crossed his mind he actually stated that he didn't want to lose to a white heavyweight. His comments have been brought up in this forum on more than a few occasions.

...It not only crossed his mind he actually stated that he didn't want to lose to a white heavyweight. His comments have been brought up in this forum on more than a few occasions.

well if that's the case, then the case is closed. He knew he wouldn't win and he knew he would be loosing to a white HW. If he really didn't want to loose to a white HW and didn't give the rematch after SAYING he would, then the situation is quite obvious..

a shame that it's even thought of that way... but then again the media has these sayings like 'great white hype' and 'always bet on the black guy' etc..

i think in the first fight, lewis was starting to dominate with his power and accuracy when the fight was stopped...so my opinion is if the fight went on, lewis would have KOed Klitchko...

He should have if he said he was going to. But he was smart not too because he would have gotten his ass beat.

He should have if he said he was going to. But he was smart not too because he would have gotten his ass beat.

totally disagree...Klitchko was gettin his ass handed to Lewis as the fight progressed...

totally disagree...Klitchko was gettin his ass handed to Lewis as the fight progressed...

I guess we were watching a different fight.

That cut was bad enough that they should've stopped the fight a lot earlier. Lewis likes to jab and open up cuts, had they kept fighting Vitali would have gone down eventually, he could barely see.

I'm sorry, I don't care if he was the champ when he retired, I don't share Lewis' or his fans perception of him as a fighter, as a champion. He was a large fighter with decent skills, who was able to make good use of his size and strength, but he was also a dirty fighter, who lost to two journeymen by one-punch knockouts, and then "avenged" his losses against both of them in return matches where one fighter had a nervous breakdown in the ring and refused to fight him, and the other showed up, but sure as hell didn't appear to have any intentions of fighting. The fact that he retired as champ doesn't change that, nor does it change my perception of him as a fighter and a person. He acted like he was really ready to fight VK again, and wasted everyone's time, teasing them with the possibility of a rematch, and then ran with the title. And is it coincidence that it was after the only fight I can recall that he was behind on points and showing no signs of being able to turn the tide? Against McCall and Rahman, his losses came as the result of punches that basically came out of nowhere, in fights where he basically appeared to be holding his own, if not in complete control, whereas against VK, he was losing rounds, had been hurt, and was never able to take control of the fight. What I'm saying is he was losing in a way that can't be argued, you can say he was old, he didn't train, or whatever, but you can't say he wasn't losing. My problem isn't with VK losing the fight, it's with the way LL was still arrogant afterwards, shamelessly claiming the win and eventually refusing to fight VK again by retiring, while still basically talking **** about VK from the sidelines, and refusing to back it up.

McCall was NOT a journeyman when he beat Lewis and Rahman has never been a journeyman. To call Rahman a journeyman is funny when Vitali is fighting him NEXT.

What fault is it to Lewis that Rahman came in fat or McCall had a nervous breakdown because Lewis was beating him that bad. That's like blaming Vitali for Johnson and Sanders (Rahman knocked out) coming in like fat slobs.

Vitali should forget about Lewis and fight Byrd or Ruiz.

And please spare me the "Don King wants options so the fight can't happen crap". Wlad has fought many Don King fighters, before and after he was champ and Don never wanted or got options. Don has stated over and over on TV and in the press that he does not want any options on Klitschko because he is confident his fighters will win.

I may not like Lewis personally because he was a bit too into himself for my tastes and his excuses after losing to Rahman were laughable but, the guy was one of the best "big" men to get into the ring. He was no Jack Johnson, he was no Marciano but he fought and defeated every name heavyweight in the last 15 years. There is not one heavyweight fighter in the last 15 years with a better record from top to bottom then Lewis (fighters who fought at heavy their entire career). He fought everyone except Bowe....who threw his belt in the trash rather then fight Lennox.

The record speaks for itself. Most of the champions around now were B level fighters who noone even cared about back when Lewis was fighting. Now we are forced to watch them because with the exception of Vitali, there is no real heavyweight threat in the entire division.

And please spare me the "Don King wants options so the fight can't happen crap". Wlad has fought many Don King fighters, before and after he was champ and Don never wanted or got options. Don has stated over and over on TV and in the press that he does not want any options on Klitschko because he is confident his fighters will win.



I may not know much about boxing and I could be totally wrong, but I disagree with this statement. The Klitschko camp says the reason they haven't fought another champ IS because DK wants the options. Don King is not stupid, that's for sure. We may not like what he does often to boxing, but he's a smart man of business. How could he actually not want a piece of the Klitschkos and honestly think his sad stable of fighters can beat VK unless he IS using foul play tactics?

people ***** and complain that Holyfield is ruining himself by staying around to long, but then turn around and ***** and complain that the 39 year old Lewis should have fought on.

He's 39, has all his brain cells, a new wife, a new daughter, more money than he knows what to do with.

Olympic Gold Medal
3 Time Champion
16 Title defenses

he has nothing to prove to anyone.



i agree, why should lewis come back if he can never be prime lewis again, i think he retired at just the right time, his interest in boxing and training had basically disappeared. if he can't be prime lennox ever again, and i know he can't, it makes no sense at all for him to come back. he took a lickin from Big K but when i watch that fight again i see how the first big right lewis landed nearly knocked frankenstein out. Even an out of shape Lennox beats frankenstein, it just would have taken longer. he was lucky to cut Big K, otherwise he would have had to box for another 6 rounds

i agree, why should lewis come back if he can never be prime lewis again, i think he retired at just the right time, his interest in boxing and training had basically disappeared. if he can't be prime lennox ever again, and i know he can't, it makes no sense at all for him to come back. he took a lickin from Big K but when i watch that fight again i see how the first big right lewis landed nearly knocked frankenstein out. Even an out of shape Lennox beats frankenstein, it just would have taken longer. he was lucky to cut Big K, otherwise he would have had to box for another 6 rounds

while much of this may be true...
I dont like how he said yes to the rematch.. I guess it's understandable when the emotions are high etc..
but showing up at later fights talking trash after he left with the above mentioned situation... just shows little class and too much arrogance.

I may not know much about boxing and I could be totally wrong, but I disagree with this statement. The Klitschko camp says the reason they haven't fought another champ IS because DK wants the options. Don King is not stupid, that's for sure. We may not like what he does often to boxing, but he's a smart man of business. How could he actually not want a piece of the Klitschkos and honestly think his sad stable of fighters can beat VK unless he IS using foul play tactics?

Don King owns just about every heavyweight in the division. Rahman may beat Klitschko in May and Don will have all four belts. Every way Klitschko turns he must fight a King fighter. Klitschko has to unify the division, he can only go so far by fighting the Williams' and Johnsons of the division. He has to fight Ruiz or Byrd in 05. Even if Vitali beats Byrd, he still has to face Ruiz, then the WBO champ. After all is said, King promotes three Vitali fights without even having options on Vitali. If Vitali unifies the division, most the contenders facing Vitali will likely be King fighters.

I don't know what everyone else say, but i was surprised to see vitali throw jab after jab and actually hit lewis with some god combo's without etting his head knocked off, but I did see vitali almost get his head knocked into a the 4th for 5th row by a dveasting upperct in one of the mid rounds and as lewis rubbed the dreadlocks in teh cut and keep uppercutting Vitali in that eye it started to look worse and worse. They rightfully stopped the fight, because his eye was utterly f*cked up, but regardless of what anyone says...Vitali would have finished the night on his back plain and simple...But!!!!!!! I believe lewis should have not given him a rematch but insisted on a rematch and shut the mouth of all his detractors...But!!!!!! he didn't so all we can do is debate about it instead of talking about how vitali knocked lewis out and in to retirement like tarver did jones...well jones didn't retire, but by the results of his last fight he should have...

while much of this may be true...
I dont like how he said yes to the rematch.. I guess it's understandable when the emotions are high etc..
but showing up at later fights talking trash after he left with the above mentioned situation... just shows little class and too much arrogance.


yeah, i don't think lennox should have talked the trash after IF HE CAN'T come back, which is the case. but, whenever someone talks **** like that and they can't do nothin about it it's just ego trippin, he's tryin to keep the wolf away from the door. lennox knows he's past prime and maybe even wants to face frankenstein again but he's frustrated because he'll never dominate again the way he did when he was prime

He went out on top. Good for him.

Klitchko lost. Lennox won. He went out on top. Good for him.

sometimes you gotta realize it's time to step aside and let the next person take the reigns..

Don King owns just about every heavyweight in the division. Rahman may beat Klitschko in May and Don will have all four belts. Every way Klitschko turns he must fight a King fighter. Klitschko has to unify the division, he can only go so far by fighting the Williams' and Johnsons of the division. He has to fight Ruiz or Byrd in 05. Even if Vitali beats Byrd, he still has to face Ruiz, then the WBO champ. After all is said, King promotes three Vitali fights without even having options on Vitali. If Vitali unifies the division, most the contenders facing Vitali will likely be King fighters.

it's definitely true that DK owns much of the HW division and it's boxers and that everywhere VK turns is DK waiting for him, but VK won't fight any DK fighter unless they sort out a contractual agreement. VK could fight more Williams' and Johnsons if DK is too demanding when trying to sort out the contracts. DK doesn't want to loose the upper hand. He won't be DK if he does.

McCall was NOT a journeyman when he beat Lewis and Rahman has never been a journeyman. To call Rahman a journeyman is funny when Vitali is fighting him NEXT.

What fault is it to Lewis that Rahman came in fat or McCall had a nervous breakdown because Lewis was beating him that bad. That's like blaming Vitali for Johnson and Sanders (Rahman knocked out) coming in like fat slobs.

Vitali should forget about Lewis and fight Byrd or Ruiz.

And please spare me the "Don King wants options so the fight can't happen crap". Wlad has fought many Don King fighters, before and after he was champ and Don never wanted or got options. Don has stated over and over on TV and in the press that he does not want any options on Klitschko because he is confident his fighters will win.

I may not like Lewis personally because he was a bit too into himself for my tastes and his excuses after losing to Rahman were laughable but, the guy was one of the best "big" men to get into the ring. He was no Jack Johnson, he was no Marciano but he fought and defeated every name heavyweight in the last 15 years. There is not one heavyweight fighter in the last 15 years with a better record from top to bottom then Lewis (fighters who fought at heavy their entire career). He fought everyone except Bowe....who threw his belt in the trash rather then fight Lennox.

The record speaks for itself. Most of the champions around now were B level fighters who noone even cared about back when Lewis was fighting. Now we are forced to watch them because with the exception of Vitali, there is no real heavyweight threat in the entire division.


I have no problem with his record, or his skills, but the way he basically ran with the title just for the sake of being able to say he retired as champ still reeks of cowardess, Rick. Think about it, Ali was also obsessed with his place in history, would he end his career with a controversial win that would allow boxing fans to question his ability, when he was at a point at his career where, if he came into a fight in shape, he would be as good as he had ever been in his career? I doubt it. And again, Rick, VK lost the fight, I've said it too many times already, and if Lewis had said, "Ok, I'm starting to feel my age, I've had enough" then I wouldn't even post on this, but he retired after an eternity had gone by, and doctors had cleared VK to fight him again, basically, after he was out of excuses not to fight him. Ok Rahman and McCall were "contenders", is that better? Regardless, neither of them have ever been great fighters, they both just had a big enough punch to flatten LL, and it's not his fault, but if he were a man, he wouldn't even claim the McCall 2 fight as a victory. He hasn't fought or handled his career like the all time great he wants to be remembered as. He's acting like a baby, sitting on the sidelines picking everyone over VK, not even trying to hide his contempt. I guess my problem with him is more about him as a person than as a fighter.

I have to agree w/ the liberal snaggle tooth here. Lennox was gonna retire, now if he were to fight another guy after the 1st fight then YES, but he retired w/ his brain and legacy intact. ;)

Your best post EVER ;)

basically..
He should have given VK the rematch if only for the single fact that he said he would.
I think that VK knew that and maybe that's one of many reasons why he was in LL's face after their match asking him for the rematch.

basically..
He should have given VK the rematch if only for the single fact that he said he would.
I think that VK knew that and maybe that's one of many reasons why he was in LL's face after their match asking him for the rematch.

Hmmmm maybe he did offer him one then. I don't know that for definate. Maybe Vitali was just begging for one :confused:

I'm pretty sure I remember in the background after the fight Lenox saying yes to the rematch offer from VK. It was like VK wasn't going to quit asking and pestering him until he got the answer. And if my memory does serve me right, it was like VK was playing it up in front of the cameras like 'see, he said it'
but maybe i just dreamt that!
:P

If lennox fought Vk again, he could destroy his face some more. That was brutal. Hi Wez.

too bad the cut above the eye was due to a missed punch, an unclean shot.
good job Lenox!

if he was gonna rematch he shoulda earlier, but i dont see any need too anyway

lewis was unprepared for the vitali fight and im sure he has regretted not preparing fully for the fight but lewis nos and vitali no that a fully prepared lewis would have beaten vitali. the history of the sport will say that lewis retired as champ and that is what he wanted

the only way to fully know would be to let them both prepare the best they can and unleash them against each other.

Sorry, didn't see that one. I also think that Wlad should have given Williamson a rematch, not because it would be a great fight, but because it seems cowardly not to.


Belfort hit Couture with a glancing blow near his eye which opened up a nasty cut just like Lewis did to Vitali, and Belfort gave Couture a rematch in which Couture beat him.

I know history records a win for Lewis in this fight. His legacy is secure and he retired a Champion. Lewis won the fight.

Although, IMO, future generations will never get the true story on this fight because so many people disagree on what happened.

In My Opinion, Lewis got lucky. He was loosing the fight and was lucky to escape with a win. Lewis knows there was doubt about his performance in that fight and chose not to quiet the doubters. The fact that he refused to rematch Vitali, in front of all the world, convinced me that he himself doubted whether or not he could win a rematch.

IMO, Lewis escaped into retirement knowing a rematch with Vitali was a risk to his legacy. He wanted to retire a Champion. In my mind he was a great champion that retired a coward. It was at that moment I became a Klitschko fan.

Aye, he'd be smart not to grand a rematch and nobody would blame him.

He should stop being a **** and give vitali the respect he deserves, though.

I know history records a win for Lewis in this fight. His legacy is secure and he retired a Champion. Lewis won the fight.

Although, IMO, future generations will never get the true story on this fight because so many people disagree on what happened.

In My Opinion, Lewis got lucky. He was loosing the fight and was lucky to escape with a win. Lewis knows there was doubt about his performance in that fight and chose not to quiet the doubters. The fact that he refused to rematch Vitali, in front of all the world, convinced me that he himself doubted whether or not he could win a rematch.

IMO, Lewis escaped into retirement knowing a rematch with Vitali was a risk to his legacy. He wanted to retire a Champion. In my mind he was a great champion that retired a coward. It was at that moment I became a Klitschko fan.

IMO Vitali caught Lewis at the right time, that was a poor performance by Lewis and he was right to retire after it.

People can say Lewis was a coward for not giving Vitali a rematch but isnt it better that fighters get out before its too late? Before its a health risk? Would people rather him have an Evander Holyfield attuitude?

I hate it when fights get stopped on cuts but Vitali had terrible injurys, for me they were as good as a KO and there should be no doubt Lewis won that fight fairly, to say Lewis got lucky is a joke!

Belfort hit Couture with a glancing blow near his eye which opened up a nasty cut just like Lewis did to Vitali, and Belfort gave Couture a rematch in which Couture beat him.

Ah, I see your point, thanks.

IMO, Lewis was a good fighter, but not a great one, and true champions aren't cowards. Could anyone imagine how the fight would turn out if VK fought LL like he did against Sanders? Does anyone doubt that a man of VK's intelligence would consider that style in a rematch? I mean. he's never really had too much pride to run if he thought it would give him the best chance.

NO, Lewis is done and got old in that fight. Lewis barely got away. Lewis shouldn't even think about coming back.

allways fun 2 see another fight but he does not need to do that ... he won .. but it would be great of him doin that .. ;)

sry guys im tm new and im learning on this system

they were going to give 30 million dollars to fight vitali again for the rematch and he turned it down,now who do u guys think won in ther first match and which one is scared today,this shouldnt be that hard to figure out

Lewis should have retired after beating Tyson, because his hunger and eagerness to prove somehting left him then.

Vitali had his chance agaisnt a 37 year old Lewis coming off a year's inactivity, and he elected to go toe to toe and ended up losing because his face got punched into hamburger:

<img src=http://img161.exs.cx/img161/6038/vitaliklitschko27my.jpg>


Lewis is a Hall of Fame fighter, and earned the right to retire whenever he wnated.

The lesson to Vitali: step up and make the most of a chance when you get it.

He's now 0-2 agasint the two best fighters he's faced by way of TKO losses.

Lewis should have retired after beating Tyson, because his hunger and eagerness to prove somehting left him then.

Vitali had his chance agaisnt a 37 year old Lewis coming off a year's inactivity, and he elected to go toe to toe and ended up losing because his face got punched into hamburger:

<img src=http://img161.exs.cx/img161/6038/vitaliklitschko27my.jpg>


Lewis is a Hall of Fame fighter, and earned the right to retire whenever he wnated.

The lesson to Vitali: step up and make the most of a chance when you get it.

He's now 0-2 agasint the two best fighters he's faced by way of TKO losses.

and STILL hasn't been knocked down!!!!
that's world class!
and hall of famer

the real question is......

should rahman have given lewis a rematch?

Yes, he should have given a rematch. If the Hagler-Hearns fight was stopped when the ref called time to have the doc look at Hagler's cut, everyone would have wanted a rematch. And Tommy would have given one.

Lewis's two Ko losses were more decisive losses than his alleged win over Klit. Yet people clamor over how Lewis got the better of Rahman and McCall. Huh? He is 1-1 against both.(really, he never beat McCall, that any commission let him into the ring that night is a travesty) Have a rubber match and then you can claim victory. Lewis was a very careful and calculated fighter when it came to picking his fights.

i think lewis put it best when he said "i proved i can beat vitali klitschko on my worst day".
because that's exactly what he did. lewis is smart, and he knew to get out on top and not succumb to the "next fight" syndrome so many great fighters fall victim to- and ruin their records and reputation. he knew he was done after tyson. that was the last important stop on the way to him. getting knocked around some by a 6 7" guy you had 2 weeks to prepare for, amid not really even caring about fighting anymore doesn't prove vitali could have beaten lennox on any other day.
lewis came out dry- he looked like total **** and he fought like total **** (for him) and he still won. that says plenty, quit hating.

The shameful way Lewis ended his career tainted the fine legacy he had built up. Lewis should have never promised Vitali the rematch, then made him jump through hoops, then drag and delay and finally retire days before he was scheduled to be stripped. Lewis was ducking both Byrd and the Klitschos before he retired. He only agreed to fight Vitali because he knew he could get Vitali as a late sub and would hold a training advantage over him. Lewis got a gift and should have retired a gentleman instead of a cad.

i think lewis put it best when he said "i proved i can beat vitali klitschko on my worst day".
because that's exactly what he did. lewis is smart, and he knew to get out on top and not succumb to the "next fight" syndrome so many great fighters fall victim to- and ruin their records and reputation. he knew he was done after tyson. that was the last important stop on the way to him. getting knocked around some by a 6 7" guy you had 2 weeks to prepare for, amid not really even caring about fighting anymore doesn't prove vitali could have beaten lennox on any other day.
lewis came out dry- he looked like total **** and he fought like total **** (for him) and he still won. that says plenty, quit hating.

could people please stop nagging about ll only having 2 weeks tp prepare cause so did VK and he made no excuses.

its worse fighting LL when prepared for boswell than fighting VK prepared for johnson.

LL won but he didnt beat VK.

2 weeks to train wasn't the point. the point is lewis got out and stayed out sooner than later, it was a smart decision. if they fought again vitali would be cut again. lewis managed to do it while looking horrible, if he was good to go in the same way he was against tyson or the rahman rematch- vitali at his best still could never win. the fact that vitali is considered 'the man' right now is a big reason why the vast majority of people think the heavyweight division is so weak. i like the klitschkos, don't get me wrong. i'd watch them before any other heavyweights right now, but lewis was out of their league. vitali also only had 2 weeks to train for lewis- but he was more physically sound because lewis hadn't been doing anything but partying and celebrating his tyson victory. because, again, that was all he had left to do in his eyes. then he found out he'd be defending against some short bum so he barely trained (like an *******), but then all of the sudden he has a klitschko on his hands which completely changes any sort of a fight strategy he had together.
lennox lewis is a ****y dude, and that is the main weakness he has ever shown me. but again don't get me wrong because vitali is really good. he's just not that good.

[[[vitali also only had 2 weeks to train for lewis- but he was more physically sound because lewis hadn't been doing anything but partying and celebrating his tyson victory.]]]
====================================

Dead wrong there. Lewis had been training for a full 8 weeks for a 12 rd title fight. Moreover Lewis would fly Manny out to England now and again and train with him for a week or two to stay sharp before he ever started his 8 wk camp. Vitali was the late sub for Tyson who pulled out of the undercard. Vitali had been training one wk for the 10 rd non title undercard when he accepted the upgrade to 12 rd title fight with 2 weeks left for a total of 3 wks of training to Lewis' full 8 weeks.

Now, if you know anything about conditioning, then you know that endurance does not start to show significant gains from training until approx 3 weeks of excercises. Lewis knew this, so while Lewis was tailing off his training regimen the last 2 weeks to build strength and reserve and sharpness, Vitali was trying to quickly build what endurance he could.

If Lewis had really wanted Vitali, he could have scheduled him for a megamoney fight in England or Germany on even training footing. Lewis didn't want that, instead he succeeded in obtaining a significant training advantage because he knew Vitali was game to fight him under any conditions.

well damn, i didn't know any of that, so i'm clearly wrong there. but he still won off a cut face that i don't think would have been a problem for lewis to open in a rematch, it's the same fist + face equation between the two, and that kind of thing wouldn't have changed no matter how either of them trained. i still feel lewis made a good choice retiring when he did, but it was ****ty as far as how it went down for vitali. but he still got the title so no harm no foul, he just didn't get a chance to prove he can beat a nearly 38 year old lewis who had no will to fight anymore.

2 weeks to train wasn't the point. the point is lewis got out and stayed out sooner than later, it was a smart decision. if they fought again vitali would be cut again. lewis managed to do it while looking horrible, if he was good to go in the same way he was against tyson or the rahman rematch- vitali at his best still could never win. the fact that vitali is considered 'the man' right now is a big reason why the vast majority of people think the heavyweight division is so weak. i like the klitschkos, don't get me wrong. i'd watch them before any other heavyweights right now, but lewis was out of their league. vitali also only had 2 weeks to train for lewis- but he was more physically sound because lewis hadn't been doing anything but partying and celebrating his tyson victory. because, again, that was all he had left to do in his eyes. then he found out he'd be defending against some short bum so he barely trained (like an *******), but then all of the sudden he has a klitschko on his hands which completely changes any sort of a fight strategy he had together.
lennox lewis is a ****y dude, and that is the main weakness he has ever shown me. but again don't get me wrong because vitali is really good. he's just not that good.


any champ that doesn't prepare for a fight, regardless of who he's defending his title against isn't a good champ..

any champ that doesn't prepare for a fight, regardless of who he's defending his title against isn't a good champ..


If Lewis had have lost, that may be a valid point.

But he didn't lose.

Vitali did.

<img src=http://img161.exs.cx/img161/6038/vitaliklitschko27my.jpg>

well damn, i didn't know any of that, so i'm clearly wrong there. but he still won off a cut face that i don't think would have been a problem for lewis to open in a rematch, it's the same fist + face equation between the two, and that kind of thing wouldn't have changed no matter how either of them trained. i still feel lewis made a good choice retiring when he did, but it was ****ty as far as how it went down for vitali. but he still got the title so no harm no foul, he just didn't get a chance to prove he can beat a nearly 38 year old lewis who had no will to fight anymore.

Lewis may have been a good boxer, but the only thing he did by doing all this was prove his arrogance, as opposed to him being a good champion. A good champion has dignity and respect for others, and would have given a rematch to someone if a good fight was stopped due to a cut.

If Lewis had have lost, that may be a valid point.

But he didn't lose.

Vitali did.

<img src=http://img161.exs.cx/img161/6038/vitaliklitschko27my.jpg>

you should try to follow the conversation....
someone was saying that Lewis didn't train due to celebrating beating up Tyson and was using that as an excuse or a point, I was simply stating that any good champ should prepare and try to maintain physical peakness.

you should try to follow the conversation....
someone was saying that Lewis didn't train due to celebrating beating up Tyson and was using that as an excuse or a point, I was simply stating that any good champ should prepare and try to maintain physical peakness.


My point stands, there's no need for an excuse when you win.

Lewis was old, at a career high weight, and was coming off a year's inactivity.

He still beat Vitali.

If it was going to happen for Klitschko at any point, it was that night. Instead, he got his faces punched into ground beef.

I would have like to have seen a rematch, but I also think way too many great champions stay around way too long.

Lewis is a smart guy, and if he didn't know after the Tyson fight that his heart wasn't in it anymore, he did after fighting Vitali.

Thank Holyfiled for showing Lennox that it's better to walk away on top.

My point stands, there's no need for an excuse when you win.

Lewis was old, at a career high weight, and was coming off a year's inactivity.

He still beat Vitali.

If it was going to happen for Klitschko at any point, it was that night. Instead, he got his faces punched into ground beef.

I would have like to have seen a rematch, but I also think way too many great champions stay around way too long.

Lewis is a smart guy, and if he didn't know after the Tyson fight that his heart wasn't in it anymore, he did after fighting Vitali.

Thank Holyfiled for showing Lennox that it's better to walk away on top.


Lewis did punch the hell outta Klitshcko's face, but he didn't "beat" him, the doc had to stop it to protect VK. Vitali gets hit, he stays up and keeps fighting, Lewis gets hit, he falls to the canvas, starched, still trying to throw punches, asking "what happened?" when Rahman's wearing his belt.

Lewis did punch the hell outta Klitshcko's face, but he didn't "beat" him, the doc had to stop it to protect VK. Vitali gets hit, he stays up and keeps fighting, Lewis gets hit, he falls to the canvas, starched, still trying to throw punches, asking "what happened?" when Rahman's wearing his belt.

Does it make you feel better to word it like that?

Lewis suffered one punch KO's and won the rematches.

He then retired having beaten everyone he's ever faced, a shoe in for the hall of fame.

Klitschko lost by TKO to the two top fighters he's ever faced, didn't avenge either loss, and has Corrie Sanders and Larry Donald as the best names on his resume.

The only way he'd get anywehere near the HOF is if he bought a ticket.

It's fun spinning things to sound worse, isn't it?

:D

nobody answered my question though. should've rahman rematched lewis? since he beat him decisively the first time, why need a rematch?

just curious to hear opinions.

nobody answered my question though. should've rahman rematched lewis? since he beat him decisively the first time, why need a rematch?

just curious to hear opinions.

I think with the way Rahman got dominated and KO'd in the rematch, it clearly showed Lewis was a clown for regarding their 1st fight with such little importance and behaving so unprofessionally.

That punch that KO'd Rock in the rematch may have ruined him for quite some time. Remember how poor he looked fighting Holyfield?

The simplest answer would be the 10s of millions of dollars many different factions had to gain in seeing a Lewis Tyson fight. :cool:

so bozo, with rahman ko'ing ll in the first fight, do you think he should've rematched ll. i mean, a ko is as dominating a win as there is, even if he was getting outboxed. why the need for a rematch?

so bozo, with rahman ko'ing ll in the first fight, do you think he should've rematched ll. i mean, a ko is as dominating a win as there is, even if he was getting outboxed. why the need for a rematch?


The question is moot. Lewis had a rematch clause, and it was held up in court.

and, could it also be possible that rahman took lewis too lightly after the first match thus losing in the same fashion as lennox did in the first fight.

klitschko/lewis ties into this somehow.

and, could it also be possible that rahman took lewis too lightly after the first match thus losing in the same fashion as lennox did in the first fight.


In my opinion, no.

Lewis neglected his jab in the 1st fight, was filming a movie in vegas the week before the fight, and came in heavy. He had that loss comming.

But he deserves big props for the rematch.

If anything Rahman (evident in all the talking he did) seemed more primed and hungry for the rematch. In the end, I don't think it mattered, becase the bottom line is that Rahman isn't nearly in the same class as Lewis.

A lot of guys getting KO'd like LL was in the 1st fight are ruined, or have it in the back of their minds in fighting that same opponent again.

Lewis came out to James Brown's "Big Payback" and looked as serious as a heart attack.

He wasn't the least bit gun shy, and he went after Rahman from the opening bell. He split Rahman's cheek with a jab in the 1st round, and dominated rounds 1 - 3 landing some of the hardest jabs I've ever seen him through. He was trying to land that KO shot he eventually scored since the begining of the 3rd.

He knew he made an ass of himself in the 1st fight, and he came out to prove a point in the rematch and did so resoundingly.

<br>

in my opinion, it's too bad there wasn't a rematch clause with klitschko/lewis. regardless or which fighter would've won, the fans for sure would've been in for something special.

i would say klitschko would not have given lewis as much respect as he did in the first fight. too hesitant at some times. lewis would've had all he could handle in my opinion.

more people should learn to discuss boxing like we do, right.

later, i'm out.

in my opinion, it's too bad there wasn't a rematch clause with klitschko/lewis. regardless or which fighter would've won, the fans for sure would've been in for something special.

i would say klitschko would not have given lewis as much respect as he did in the first fight. too hesitant at some times. lewis would've had all he could handle in my opinion.

more people should learn to discuss boxing like we do, right.

later, i'm out.


I agree, it's refreshing to discuss this topic with someone who doesn't freak out like a crabby pre schooler. :cool:


I see what you're saying about wishing Vitali had a rematch clause, but it's being the champion that affords that luxury. You have to realize that up until that point, Vitali's resume and credibility didn't allow for him to make any such demand. In retrospect, he's lucky Johnson was injured, otherwise he never even would have gotten the 1st opportunity.
<br>

i would say klitschko would not have given lewis as much respect as he did in the first fight. too hesitant at some times. lewis would've had all he could handle in my opinion.

more people should learn to discuss boxing like we do, right.

later, i'm out.

sorry. but if we are to philosifise i see it as lewis showing up in lousy shape when he beat klit the first time.. and if there was a rematch and lewis did show up in shape klit would have less of a chance by far imo.

Lewis was smart to NOT give Klitchko a rematch. He would have lost. But that's my opinion...and damn good one. :D

Lewis ducked Vitali, he turned down 20 million to fight Vitali. End of story.

i think lewis may have felt he had plenty of money as it was, and was more concerned with just making sure he had a firm place in boxing history. i personally think lewis had a rematch in him, and i think he would have decisively beaten vitali in any sort of a rematch. but i commend him for being intelligent and fighting off the urge to take another big fight. he was able to stop himself, meanwhile 98% of all other top fighters are prisoners to the sport.

and, could it also be possible that rahman took lewis too lightly after the first match thus losing in the same fashion as lennox did in the first fight.

klitschko/lewis ties into this somehow.

rahmans camp helped him do himself in concerning II.headtripp,very little constructive guidence

plus lewis showed up in slightly better than mediocre form.

don't see no similarities

Lewis was clearly on his way to knocking Vitali out. Only you homosexual Klitschko fans (using the word "homosexual" should go without saying, its a given, but oh well) would say differently.

First 3 rounds were Vitali's, no question. Then Lewis said "okay, I'm not losing to an actual ******" and started turning the tide in round 4, then 5 and 6 were easily his. I wish that fight would've gone on because Vitali would've been laid out on his back way back then. The Klitschko myth would be over because then Lewis would've probably fought and murdered Wladimir in 2 rounds or less.

Lewis should've given Vitali a rematch, definitely. I'd love to see him come back and fight both the Klitschkos. Then James Toney.

i think lewis may have felt he had plenty of money as it was, and was more concerned with just making sure he had a firm place in boxing history. i personally think lewis had a rematch in him, and i think he would have decisively beaten vitali in any sort of a rematch. but i commend him for being intelligent and fighting off the urge to take another big fight. he was able to stop himself, meanwhile 98% of all other top fighters are prisoners to the sport.


Spot on, and the best post of the thread.

Should Lewis have given Vitali a rematch? I would have like to have seen it, and I think he would have beat him much more convincingly.

Did Lewis earn the right to retire whenever he waneted? Yes. An absolute yes.

And he retired having beaten every man he ever faced, including Vitali.

Does it make you feel better to word it like that?

Lewis suffered one punch KO's and won the rematches.

He then retired having beaten everyone he's ever faced, a shoe in for the hall of fame.

Klitschko lost by TKO to the two top fighters he's ever faced, didn't avenge either loss, and has Corrie Sanders and Larry Donald as the best names on his resume.

The only way he'd get anywehere near the HOF is if he bought a ticket.

It's fun spinning things to sound worse, isn't it?

:D


no matter how you word whatever your spewing,
Lewis' jaw = glass
Vitali's jaw = steel

no matter how you word whatever your spewing,
Lewis' jaw = glass
Vitali's jaw = steel



No matter how you spin it, Lennox Lewis was a better boxer, Champion and man than Vitali will ever be. Now i'm not anti Vitali, but he just isn't in the same calibre as Lennox.

Spot on, and the best post of the thread.

Should Lewis have given Vitali a rematch? I would have like to have seen it, and I think he would have beat him much more convincingly.

Did Lewis earn the right to retire whenever he waneted? Yes. An absolute yes.

And he retired having beaten every man he ever faced, including Vitali.


if Lewis did retire knowing he had enough cash and did enough in the sport, then props to him, because most rich people can never get enough money. Plus, that would mean he conquered his demons of pride. To see all the fans cheering on Vitali at the end of that fight when Vitali was standing on the ring corners with his hands up, that definitely put a knife in the heart of Lewis' pride. I think that's why he kept talking trash about VK after he retired, because he still had his own doubts in his mind after saying 'i was gonna knock him out the next round'. That and seeing a Ukrainian get more acceptance in the US than a British man. :D

No matter how you spin it, Lennox Lewis was a better boxer, Champion and man than Vitali will ever be. Now i'm not anti Vitali, but he just isn't in the same calibre as Lennox.

I can see by your red bar, you are probably biased...
first start off with the 'better man' part and look here

from www.klitschko.com:

After everything was taken care off following Wladimir’s fight with Samuel Peter, Wladimir flew to Bucharest, where he took part in opening a children’s home as part of his and Vitali’s joint project with UNESCO – “Education for children in need.”
This project in Romania started in December of 2004, when Vitali and Wladimir for the first time visited Bucharest where they encountered homeless teens. Some lived in abandoned houses or factories, while others dug up ground holes to sleep in.
Members of charitable society Concordia bought out an old abandoned house and began reaching out to homeless kids, trying not only to feed and dress them, but also show them a different side of life. «Concordia» turned to UNESCO for help, which with the help of Vitali and Wladimir carried out a charitable telemarathon collecting close to a million euros. All this money paid not only for a fix up of abandoned home to house these homeless kids but also for their education, where they had opportunity to study, learn and develop various skills.
“Unfortunately, Vitali could not come along with me to take part in opening this children’s home, since he’s preparing for an upcoming fight with Hasim Rahman,” mentioned Wladimir talking about his trip. “I very much regret that Vitali could not see those children’s eyes filled with joy that they have their own home and people to take care of them. These kids are talented. They have created their own theater and have dances. And I was treated to a tasty pizza, which we made together. I am happy that we could help these kids.”
Wladimir also shared some new news that their next joint project with UNESCO will take place in Ukraine together with «Concordia».


then show me what Lewis is doing with his money...

look more there and you'll find other stories.

I can see by your red bar, you are probably biased...
first start off with the 'better man' part and look here

from www.klitschko.com:

After everything was taken care off following Wladimir’s fight with Samuel Peter, Wladimir flew to Bucharest, where he took part in opening a children’s home as part of his and Vitali’s joint project with UNESCO – “Education for children in need.”
This project in Romania started in December of 2004, when Vitali and Wladimir for the first time visited Bucharest where they encountered homeless teens. Some lived in abandoned houses or factories, while others dug up ground holes to sleep in.
Members of charitable society Concordia bought out an old abandoned house and began reaching out to homeless kids, trying not only to feed and dress them, but also show them a different side of life. «Concordia» turned to UNESCO for help, which with the help of Vitali and Wladimir carried out a charitable telemarathon collecting close to a million euros. All this money paid not only for a fix up of abandoned home to house these homeless kids but also for their education, where they had opportunity to study, learn and develop various skills.
“Unfortunately, Vitali could not come along with me to take part in opening this children’s home, since he’s preparing for an upcoming fight with Hasim Rahman,” mentioned Wladimir talking about his trip. “I very much regret that Vitali could not see those children’s eyes filled with joy that they have their own home and people to take care of them. These kids are talented. They have created their own theater and have dances. And I was treated to a tasty pizza, which we made together. I am happy that we could help these kids.”
Wladimir also shared some new news that their next joint project with UNESCO will take place in Ukraine together with «Concordia».


then show me what Lewis is doing with his money...

look more there and you'll find other stories.




You're a big man for giving me a red bar.



Vitali and Wladimir are decent enough guys and i admire their charity work, but Lennox is just a class above them both.


I'm not a Klitschko hater, but i just don't get the over protective nature of their fans. Vitali hasn't earnt any where near the respect that Lennox Lewis earnt as a boxer.

Lennox is just a class above them both.


Oh really? I dont see him being a class above a confident Wlad.
Was he better then Wlad? Sure. Was he a a CLASS ABOVE? hell no.

As for Vitali, well I see him beat Lennox in a rematch. Lennox wouldnt be able to knock him out and Vitali definetly has what it takes to drop Lennox.

Anyway Lennox won the fight fare and square.

Did he have the right not to give a rematch? Sure, but in every single boxing fans eyes, hater or not, everyone wanted to see a rematch.
Klitschko haters say that the rematch would have been an easy win for Lennox. Whatever you say, then he should have fought. He didnt, because he knew that the odds of him winning are that of him loosing.

Oh really? I dont see him being a class above a confident Wlad.
Was he better then Wlad? Sure. Was he a a CLASS ABOVE? hell no.

As for Vitali, well I see him beat Lennox in a rematch. Lennox wouldnt be able to knock him out and Vitali definetly has what it takes to drop Lennox.

Anyway Lennox won the fight fare and square.

Did he have the right not to give a rematch? Sure, but in every single boxing fans eyes, hater or not, everyone wanted to see a rematch.
Klitschko haters say that the rematch would have been an easy win for Lennox. Whatever you say, then he should have fought. He didnt, because he knew that the odds of him winning are that of him loosing.


Lennox had nothing to gain from a rematch and maybe Vitali would have won, but Lennox Lewis will go down as a hall of famer, whilst Vitali probably won't.


I like Wlad Klitschko, he is unpredictable, has heart and exciting to watch, but he isn't nearly as good as Lewis. I'd still pay good money to watch the guy because he is one of those rare things: A heavyweight who wants to fight the best.

Should Lewis have given Vitali a rematch?

YES!

End of discussion. If you are going to promise someone a rematch you should keep your word.

Lewis is a lying chump.

Yes he should've gave Vitali a rematch, he promised him one, the public was calling for it, and even at one point was offered 40 million.

He retired out of fear.

A fully prepared Lewis could have lost to anyone, at anytime. He had alot of fights where he was rocked and beaten around the ring, and came back to win, which says alot for his will to win, but very little for his skills. After his carreer has ended, with him suffering one-punch knockout losses on two separate occasions, one could say that in those other fights, he was always one punch away from being knocked out. We all know he his big dream was to retire as champion, but after the narrow escape with the belts from the Klitschko fight, in which he was rocked and beaten up, and after two uppercuts in separate rounds that everyone seems so excited about, he spent the last minute of the sixth round on the ropes, with VK splitting his guard with jabs and right hands, he took the coward's way out. Tell me, if you are the champeon, and basically get your ass kicked in a title defense, but are able to win the fight on a technicality, and wanted to be recognized as an all time great, wouldn't it matter more that everyone knew that you retired with no question marks over your head, no unfinished bussiness, than just the fact that you were still champ when you retired? I mean, he was getting his ass beat in the last round of the fight, the note the fight ended on was him being hit repeatedly, up against the ropes, not punching back, how could anyone with any pride claim that as a win? It's simple, he wasn't sure he could beat VK, that's why he looked for excuses, made a big hoopla about VK's eye not being ready, and then retired when the doctors said it was OK.

A fully prepared Lewis lost to Oliver Mc'Call.

Nope, Lewis did the right thing by retiring when he did. Roy Jones should have retired after the first Tarver fight.

Anyone watching the fight with an unbiased head could easily see that Lewis was in control of the late part of the last round.

The same people who complain the fight was stopped on cuts are also the same to jump for joy when Wladimir's last fight was stopped due to cuts and Wlad won.

There was more then one cut on the face of Vitali and his mouth was bleeding heavily as well. I'm tired of the could of and should of...the bottom line is he didnt. Vitali got caught with clean punches to create the facial damage and had one of worst cuts I have ever seen on a fighter.

The doctor and the ref wanted to stop the fight much earlier but decided to let it go a few rounds in order to give Vitali a chance.

The bottom line in this fight is Lennox taking a fight with only two weeks to train for Vitali, came in out of shape and still won.

While some could say Vitali had only two weeks to train as well, Lennox busted up Vitali like no man has done before or after him. Being a person that has the entire career of Lewis on tape, I can't even recall any other fight where Lewis did the type of damage that he did.

Lennox won the fight clean, he was due to retire prior to even facing Vitali. Did he owe Vitali a rematch?...No

And I am a MUCH bigger fan of Vitali then I ever was of Lewis. The loss was Vitali's fault, he had no reason to turn the fight into a brawl and he did because he got gun happy when Lewis was rocked in round two. Vitali had little to no defense in the fight and allowed Lewis to land the shots.

Since you have Lewises career on tape, you also know that in no other fight was he busted up, out punched, and outlanded like he was in the Klitschko fight. That last part of the 6th round didn't show Lewis in control, what it showed was that both men were pretty tired. Lewis collapsed on his stool, indicating that he might've had much less in the tank than Vitali.

You're a big man for giving me a red bar.



Vitali and Wladimir are decent enough guys and i admire their charity work, but Lennox is just a class above them both.


I'm not a Klitschko hater, but i just don't get the over protective nature of their fans. Vitali hasn't earnt any where near the respect that Lennox Lewis earnt as a boxer.

I dont remember making ur bar red, but I'm sure I could've.
Why are you changing your tune now? Now it's only boxing skills that you were discussing?

I dont remember making ur bar red, but I'm sure I could've.
Why are you changing your tune now? Now it's only boxing skills that you were discussing?



I didn't mean man in the sense you meant. Vitali isn't man enough to give others much of an opportunity to fight for his title, at least Lewis gave the rather dangerous Vitali Klitchsko a crack at beating him.


Everyone knows that the Klitchsko's give a lot of time and money to charity, but this is a Boxing forum and in the ring Lewis was more of a man than Vitali.


Don't consider this an attack on Vitali, he is the best around in his division, but Lewis is a top 10 all time heavyweight.

Since you have Lewises career on tape, you also know that in no other fight was he busted up, out punched, and outlanded like he was in the Klitschko fight. That last part of the 6th round didn't show Lewis in control, what it showed was that both men were pretty tired. Lewis collapsed on his stool, indicating that he might've had much less in the tank than Vitali.


Ahh, the classic "He looked more tired on his stool" line.

Ever see the Thrilla in Manilla? Why don't you watch how Ali COLLAPSES on his stool in rounds 10 - 14.

If "looking" tired counted for anything, that might be the slightest bit relevent.

But it doesn't.

Lewis won the 6th round BIG, and had Vitali hurt at the end. Vitali was stumbling after Lewis desperate to grab on to him, and didn't even throw a punch in the last 20 seconds.

You clowns are all the same. You're just looking for a little shred of something to hold on to to make yourselves feel better.

The bottom line about that fight, is that Vitali had his chance to take out an old, inactive and under conditioned Lennox Lewis, and he got his face torn to pieces and LOST by TKO:
<img src=http://img161.exs.cx/img161/6038/vitaliklitschko27my.jpg>

The bottom line about them as fighters, is that Lewis is an assured Hall of Fame fighter who retired having beaten every fighter he's ever faced.

Vitali is a fighter who's LOST to the two top fighters he's ever faced, who's biggest career wins are over Larry Donald and Corrie Sanders, and who won't get anywhere near the Hall of Fame without buying a ticket.

But who knows, maybe making a few more threads like this in which to collectivly cry in might change some of that.

:rolleyes:
<br>

If Lewis was so confident that he was better than VK and that he didn't have to rematch him, then why was he trying to get so many other fighters to win over Vitali? It seemed like he was always calling up whoever VK was going to fight to give them failing advice. You don't do that unless you've got a chip on your shoulder. Plus, I'm pretty sure that Lewis really wanted to see VK's 'dynasty' (for lack of better words?) crushed. Lewis was the prime candidate for doing it, so why didn't he? If it's because he didn't have to, then why did he try to get so many other fighters to do it with his advice and constant heckling VK after retiring?

I didn't mean man in the sense you meant. Vitali isn't man enough to give others much of an opportunity to fight for his title, at least Lewis gave the rather dangerous Vitali Klitchsko a crack at beating him.


Everyone knows that the Klitchsko's give a lot of time and money to charity, but this is a Boxing forum and in the ring Lewis was more of a man than Vitali.


Don't consider this an attack on Vitali, he is the best around in his division, but Lewis is a top 10 all time heavyweight.

yeah, it appears that we didn't mean the same thing about being a "man"
my bad

yeah, it appears that we didn't mean the same thing about being a "man"
my bad


Thats cool. I actually like the Klitchskos, i like the fact that another European is dominating the heavyweight division.


You didn't give me bad karma,it was another Klitchsko fan. Sorry about accusing you.
:cool:

Thats cool. I actually like the Klitchskos, i like the fact that another European is dominating the heavyweight division.


You didn't give me bad karma,it was another Klitchsko fan. Sorry about accusing you.
:cool:

s'ok no worries :)

I tend to stick up for people with good hearts, who have compassion, dignity, respect for others, intellegence, class, and seemingly love in their hearts.

Plus, I'm pretty sure that Lewis really wanted to see VK's 'dynasty' (for lack of better words?) crushed.


LOL!

Vitali's DYNASTY?


Yea, I'd say a better word is lacking there.

To answer your latest "trying to feel better" questions,

Lewis counciled Corrie Sanders, because Sanders was part of Lewis' Lion promotions, and he was cheering for Danny Williams because he's British.

All of you huffing and puffing is nothing but pure crying.

Lewis earned the right to retire when he did, and he's an assured Hall of Famer, having retired beating every man he's ever faced.

Vitali blew his chance, and is now 0-2 agaisnt the two World Class fighters he's ever faced. Aside from these LOSSES, his "Dynasty's" (LOL) high point is wins over Larry Donald and Corrie Sanders.

Like I told you before, if you're broken up about this, you can wait until Vitali retires, and buy him a ticket to the Hall of Fame where you can both check out the Lennox Lewis section. :p

ok guys, let's not get too carried away with the vitali hall of fame thing. he's got quite a few more years left in him. it's way too early to say one thing either way. although, i'd like to see him in the boxing hall of fame. i think he'd be a great addition if his career continues as it is going. he just needs to knock off a few more top guns to be on the brink.

LOL!

Vitali's DYNASTY?


Yea, I'd say a better word is lacking there.

To answer your latest "trying to feel better" questions,

Lewis counciled Corrie Sanders, because Sanders was part of Lewis' Lion promotions, and he was cheering for Danny Williams because he's British.

All of you huffing and puffing is nothing but pure crying.

Lewis earned the right to retire when he did, and he's an assured Hall of Famer, having retired beating every man he's ever faced.

Vitali blew his chance, and is now 0-2 agaisnt the two World Class fighters he's ever faced. Aside from these LOSSES, his "Dynasty's" (LOL) high point is wins over Larry Donald and Corrie Sanders.

Like I told you before, if you're broken up about this, you can wait until Vitali retires, and buy him a ticket to the Hall of Fame where you can both check out the Lennox Lewis section. :p


even if VK isn't allowed in on a weekday, he'll be remembered as the guy Lenox Lewis was afraid of.

p.s. you shouldn't insult others just because of their opinions, it's one thing to debate views, it's another to make it personal.

even if VK isn't allowed in on a weekday, he'll be remembered as the guy Lenox Lewis was afraid of.

p.s. you shouldn't insult others just because of their opinions, it's one thing to debate views, it's another to make it personal.


You're not debating anything, you're beating a dead horse because the topic still hurts your feelings YEARS after the fact.

If it didn't bother you (like it does the other nut huggers) you wouldn't bump this thread up every day, and the Nut Huggers wouldn't create this exact same thread over and over and over.

ok guys, let's not get too carried away with the vitali hall of fame thing. he's got quite a few more years left in him. it's way too early to say one thing either way. although, i'd like to see him in the boxing hall of fame. i think he'd be a great addition if his career continues as it is going. he just needs to knock off a few more top guns to be on the brink.


It would take an incredible conversion of circumstance to allow Vitali to make the HoF.

He's 34 years old, and the best wins on his resume are Larry Donald, Kirk Johnson, and Corrie Sanders.

Ever "IF" he goes undefeated for the rest of his career, he'd be very hard pressed to make a case with the level of opposition available.

And at the rate he's fighting, that's not going to help his case.

It's safe to say it's VERY unlikely he'll make the Hall.
<br>

You're not debating anything, you're beating a dead horse because the topic still hurts your feelings YEARS after the fact.

If it didn't bother you (like it does the other nut huggers) you wouldn't bump this thread up every day, and the Nut Huggers wouldn't create this exact same thread over and over and over.

my feelings aren't hurt, although I have pitty on you.

I have 2 eyes, and I saw a good fight, that was one of that year's best. Any honest fan of either figther should have wanted a rematch.

I didn't bump the thread up, I found it bumped and added to the conversation. Is that ok? Does that break the Boxing Scene Forum's laws?

my feelings aren't hurt, although I have pitty on you.

I have 2 eyes, and I saw a good fight, that was one of that year's best. Any honest fan of either figther should have wanted a rematch.

I didn't bump the thread up, I found it bumped and added to the conversation. Is that ok? Does that break the Boxing Scene Forum's laws?

Beating a dead horse goes along with the typical nut hugger mentality.

And you're not adding to the discussion anymore after you've said the same thing in 40 posts.

I didn't see one person that said they wouldn't have liked to see a rematch. I said I would have like to have seen one, but as was pointed out by several people, the choice was up to Lewis, and he earned the right to walk away from the sport when he did.

You seem to be unable to accpet that without adding "he's scared".

And that's because that makes you feel better.

It makes you feel better because it hurt your feelings to see Vitali unable to pull the trigger agaisnt an old and inactive Lewis, and to see him lose to the 2nd of the 2 two best fighters he ever fought.

So you, like the other nut huggers on here, try to mend your hurt feelings by discussing this topic to death.

It's been 3 years, and a thread like this gets started by a guy like you every month.

<img src=http://www.madmforums.com/images/smilies/yawn.gif>
<br>

Beating a dead horse goes along with the typical nut hugger mentality.

And you're not adding to the discussion anymore after you've said the same thing in 40 posts.

I didn't see one person that said they wouldn't have liked to see a rematch. I said I would have like to have seen one, but as was pointed out by several people, the choice was up to Lewis, and he earned the right to walk away from the sport when he did.

You seem to be unable to accpet that without adding "he's scared".

And that's because that makes you feel better.

It makes you feel better because it hurt your feelings to see Vitali unable to pull the trigger agaisnt an old and inactive Lewis, and to see him lose to the 2nd of the 2 two best fighters he ever fought.

So you, like the other nut huggers on here, try to mend your hurt feelings by discussing this topic to death.

It's been 3 years, and a thread like this gets started by a guy like you every month.

<img src=http://www.madmforums.com/images/smilies/yawn.gif>
<br>


refer back to an earlier post of mine regarding not making judgements of others and/or making it personal based on what people say and their opinions. you dont know anyone on this forum, so if you want to appear half wise, you shouldn't make statements that presume you do know anyone here.

boxing is a sport and it's entertainment, I won't 'feel better' just because of what you, me, or anyone else thinks of meaningless sport and entertainment, it is what it is, it's enjoyable, but not all-important.

dude you just completely changed everything you were talking about. somehow it went from vitali-lennox debating/discussing to you taking a 'holier than thou' humanistic stance over bozo. can we just let this thread slip away into obscurity? please? for the love of god?

good points bozo, but look at the opponents out there. you also have to keep in mind the circumstances in which vitali is in. how many credible opponents are there in the division right now? surely it wouldn't be vk's fault that most of the rest of the division is looked at as being poor to mediocre at best. add to the fact that don king is trying to play games with the division, it makes for very complicated circumstances.

what if lennox was in vitali's shoes(position) right now. how would he be viewed? and how would he be able to make a hall of fame career?

good points bozo, but look at the opponents out there. you also have to keep in mind the circumstances in which vitali is in. how many credible opponents are there in the division right now? surely it wouldn't be vk's fault that most of the rest of the division is looked at as being poor to mediocre at best. add to the fact that don king is trying to play games with the division, it makes for very complicated circumstances.

what if lennox was in vitali's shoes(position) right now. how would he be viewed? and how would he be able to make a hall of fame career?


Lennox benifitted from something Vitali's unwilling to do.

He signed on Don King as a co promoter.

That allowed him to make and WIN fights he woudln't have gotten otherwise.

But it's a moot point as of now.

Vitali has one of four straps, and won it agaisnt Corrie Sanders.

He would need to unify titles, beat the best current fighters available, and retire undefeated (from this point on) to even generate some discussion about possible HoF consideration.

I don't think that's going to happen.

Is it unfortunate for Vitali? Maybe, but he didn't even realy enter the "scene" until he was 32, and has fought just 4 times inbetween now and then.

At that rate, and with the poor opposition available that he hasn't even got around to fighting yet, time isn't on his side.
<br>

Without a doubt Lewis should have given Vitali a rematch. Historically, when the challenger gave the champion a very, very close fight, or was winning on all scorecards at the time of a stoppage, there was an eventual rematch. We all know that Vitali gave Lewis hell and handled him in a way no one else had in his career. After looking so vulnerable, and after taking such a beating himself, you would think Lewis would have wanted to get into the best shape of his life and end his career on a high note.

He probably should have but hey he is one of the few who knew when to say when give him his due credit....It does not diminish his career in anyway IMO.

The biggest problem I have with it was that after destroying Tyson they interviewed Lewis in the ring. The only thing he kept repeating was how he was in his prime and that he's like fine wine and gets better with age, so on and so forth.

He fights one more and then retires?

What the hell kinda prime is that? a prime that lasts 2 fights?

I was always hard on Lewis for not being agressive enough in the ring for me to consider him top 5 heavies. After the Tyson fight I was starting to get on the bandwagon a bit but I think he should have rematched & beat Vitali and then beat little bro Wlad then call it a career. At the time Wlad was considered the better fighter, Lewis beating him would have further enhanced his legacy. Lewis had a good chance at beating both, he is good in rematches.

I am one of the few who seems to "not" like the way he ended his career...

The biggest problem I have with it was that after destroying Tyson they interviewed Lewis in the ring. The only thing he kept repeating was how he was in his prime and that he's like fine wine and gets better with age, so on and so forth.

He fights one more and then retires?

What the hell kinda prime is that? a prime that lasts 2 fights?

I was always hard on Lewis for not being agressive enough in the ring for me to consider him top 5 heavies. After the Tyson fight I was starting to get on the bandwagon a bit but I think he should have rematched & beat Vitali and then beat little bro Wlad then call it a career. At the time Wlad was considered the better fighter, Lewis beating him would have further enhanced his legacy. Lewis had a good chance at beating both, he is good in rematches.

I am one of the few who seems to "not" like the way he ended his career...


apparently I'm not supposed to post on this thread, but just wanted to say good points, and aren't you from one of Lewis' main countries?

yes, vitali deserves it and vitali has the right to say that he sent lewis into retirement.

I don't think Lewis should of gave Vitali a rematch. It was his choice and he wanted to go out on top beating every single fighter he faced. I see nothing wrong with that, and people are bashing him for this. Why?

Like I said a while back, when we look back on this fight in a few years we're not going to remember how Vitali gave Lennox trouble. We're going to remember one of the worst cuts in the history of the sport VIA Lennox Lewis, HOFER.

Yeah, i think Lewis did the right thing. Klitscko gave him hell and he hadn1`t anything to prove in taking the rematch, one he might well have lost. Lewis should stay retired and Klitscko should fight more often and try to establish an identity away from the lewis fight!

I don't think Lewis should of gave Vitali a rematch. It was his choice and he wanted to go out on top beating every single fighter he faced. I see nothing wrong with that, and people are bashing him for this. Why?

Like I said a while back, when we look back on this fight in a few years we're not going to remember how Vitali gave Lennox trouble. We're going to remember one of the worst cuts in the history of the sport VIA Lennox Lewis, HOFER.

I'll always remember it as a fight where the crowd cheered on the fighter who lost more than the one who won.

I'll always remember it as a fight where the crowd cheered on the fighter who lost more than the one who won.

exactly, the audiens at the stapple center and the judges had him all winning the fight.

and like sonny said, he should have rematched vk just for saying so i have the fight on tape and which proves that vk asked for a remacth and ll saying yes.

its *****y not living upp to his words

Vitaliy is a Legend

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Lewis should have given a rematch to Vitali to keep his word, and Vitali would have beaten Lewis in the rematch, IMO. He outboxed Lewis with ease the first time, the only time Lewis was outboxed. He would have done that the second time.


And, yeah, Vitaliy is a legend and a Hall of Famer for Europe:

Vitaliy fought an equal battle with Lewis and thus became the successor to the throne. Vitaliy is a highly educated, intelligent man who is easily a great role model for many youth in Ukraine, Russia, Germany... He is a great contributor to the UNESCO program. He and his brother helped his country go through a peaceful revolution to get rid of the old apparatchiks.

Vitaliy has done great, and I truly admire him for what he has done both inside and outside the ring.

i think lewis should give vitali a rematch for the simple reason he gave vitali HIS WORD to a rematch. when lewis didnt deliver on his word, he was branded the label "LIAR" and "COWARD". if lewis wants to erase that stigma, he should fight vitali one more time. if not to prove his point, then to solidify his claim as the best HW in the world.

vitali by TKO.

Lewis did the correct thing for HIM by retiring knowing he was declining and met his match.....Roy Jones shud have done the same after the first Tarver fight.....

Lewis did the correct thing for HIM by retiring knowing he was declining and met his match.....Roy Jones shud have done the same after the first Tarver fight.....
retire like a coward when faced with a challenge?

boy, id love to have that label!

retire like a coward when faced with a challenge?

boy, id love to have that label!

I guess u wud prefer to go out the way holyfield is....continually losing to his "challenge".

Ahh, the classic "He looked more tired on his stool" line.

Ever see the Thrilla in Manilla? Why don't you watch how Ali COLLAPSES on his stool in rounds 10 - 14.

If "looking" tired counted for anything, that might be the slightest bit relevent.

But it doesn't.

Lewis won the 6th round BIG, and had Vitali hurt at the end. Vitali was stumbling after Lewis desperate to grab on to him, and didn't even throw a punch in the last 20 seconds.

You clowns are all the same. You're just looking for a little shred of something to hold on to to make yourselves feel better.

The bottom line about that fight, is that Vitali had his chance to take out an old, inactive and under conditioned Lennox Lewis, and he got his face torn to pieces and LOST by TKO:
<img src=http://img161.exs.cx/img161/6038/vitaliklitschko27my.jpg>

The bottom line about them as fighters, is that Lewis is an assured Hall of Fame fighter who retired having beaten every fighter he's ever faced.

Vitali is a fighter who's LOST to the two top fighters he's ever faced, who's biggest career wins are over Larry Donald and Corrie Sanders, and who won't get anywhere near the Hall of Fame without buying a ticket.

But who knows, maybe making a few more threads like this in which to collectivly cry in might change some of that.

:rolleyes:
<br>

If winning the last round big is by getting out punched and outlanded, than I agree with you. Arent you the same moron who claimed Lewises Uppercut stunned Vitali as bad as Vitalis straight right had Lewis on queer street in round 2?

I guess u wud prefer to go out the way holyfield is....continually losing to his "challenge".

holyfield should have retired after the 2nd lewis fight cuz holyfield just didnt have it anymore. and holyfield had been fighting top HWs and larry donald since then who have presented an actual challenge but a challenge that holyfield could not overcome. lewis COULDVE overcame the challenge had he given vitali a rematch (even though lewis wouldve lost). but instead lewis retired when faced with a dangerous opponent.

lewis is a coward for not fighting vitali again. a coward anda liar.

If winning the last round big is by getting out punched and outlanded, than I agree with you. Arent you the same moron who claimed Lewises Uppercut stunned Vitali as bad as Vitalis straight right had Lewis on queer street in round 2?


And you're the same idiot who seemed to think Lewis was in such bad trouble in the 2nd because of the way he's built it up in his mind.

I'd say you need to watch the fight again, but it's obvious that wouldn't do you any good.

Lewis' uppercut in the 6th was the hardest shot of the fight, and Vitali was stumbling around the ring after Lewis at he end of the 6th. He didn't thow a punch in the last 20 seconds.

All 3 judges and the Assoc press had the 6th for Lewis. It was as clear as could be.

You'd be best to sticking with your "Yea but he looked really tired on his stoll" gem of a stance. :rolleyes:

lewis COULDVE overcame the challenge had he given vitali a rematch (even though lewis wouldve lost). but instead lewis retired when faced with a dangerous opponent.

lewis is a coward for not fighting vitali again. a coward anda liar.

Lewis "COULDVE" done whatever he wanted, because he earned that right when he BEAT Vitali
<img src=http://img161.exs.cx/img161/6038/vitaliklitschko27my.jpg>
the first time out.


I'll say it agian:

This fight was 3 years ago, and some of you Nut Huggers are so wounded that you just can't let it go. One of you creates this exact same thread each month, and you all get together and cry in it.

The bottom line is that Lewis is a Hal of Fame fighter who earned the right to retire when he did, and that Vitali is nothing more than an average fighter who's held 1/4th of the title that he won from Corrie Sanders. Aside from this, the best wins on his resume are Larry Donald and Kirk Johnson.

Instead of spending so much time collectivly crying about this, you should all collectivly set up a "Buy Vitali a ticket to the Hall of Fame" fund, so that he can someday get in the building to look at the Lennox Lewis exhibit.

Well said Bozo. I forgot how bad Vitali looked. Thanks for reminding.
Lewis "COULDVE" done whatever he wanted, because he earned that right when he BEAT Vitali
<img src=http://img161.exs.cx/img161/6038/vitaliklitschko27my.jpg>
the first time out.


I'll say it agian:

This fight was 3 years ago, and some of you Nut Huggers are so wounded that you just can't let it go. One of you creates this exact same thread each month, and you all get together and cry in it.

The bottom line is that Lewis is a Hal of Fame fighter who earned the right to retire when he did, and that Vitali is nothing more than an average fighter who's held 1/4th of the title that he won from Corrie Sanders. Aside from this, the best wins on his resume are Larry Donald and Kirk Johnson.

Instead of spending so much time collectivly crying about this, you should all collectivly set up a "Buy Vitali a ticket to the Hall of Fame" fund, so that he can someday get in the building to look at the Lennox Lewis exhibit.

Lewis "COULDVE" done whatever he wanted, because he earned that right when he BEAT Vitali
<img src=http://img161.exs.cx/img161/6038/vitaliklitschko27my.jpg>
the first time out.


I'll say it agian:

This fight was 3 years ago, and some of you Nut Huggers are so wounded that you just can't let it go. One of you creates this exact same thread each month, and you all get together and cry in it.

The bottom line is that Lewis is a Hal of Fame fighter who earned the right to retire when he did, and that Vitali is nothing more than an average fighter who's held 1/4th of the title that he won from Corrie Sanders. Aside from this, the best wins on his resume are Larry Donald and Kirk Johnson.

Instead of spending so much time collectivly crying about this, you should all collectivly set up a "Buy Vitali a ticket to the Hall of Fame" fund, so that he can someday get in the building to look at the Lennox Lewis exhibit.


if I ever heard a decent opinion from you then it would be taken into consideration. But the fact still remains that he said, then didn't, which is lying, or not keeping your word. And for that much cash, also quite obvious, coward too.

And you're the same idiot who seemed to think Lewis was in such bad trouble in the 2nd because of the way he's built it up in his mind.

I'd say you need to watch the fight again, but it's obvious that wouldn't do you any good.

Lewis' uppercut in the 6th was the hardest shot of the fight, and Vitali was stumbling around the ring after Lewis at he end of the 6th. He didn't thow a punch in the last 20 seconds.

All 3 judges and the Assoc press had the 6th for Lewis. It was as clear as could be.

You'd be best to sticking with your "Yea but he looked really tired on his stoll" gem of a stance. :rolleyes:


the 6th for lewis??????

have you smoked your own pubic hair??

the judges gave vk 1,2,4 AND 6th round

lewis got 3 and 5th.

Lewsi should have kept his word, dont tell that you dont think a man should stick to his words.

and dont give me this" he landed powerpunches and made a burger off vit".

bozo always uses the o he landed 50% of his power connects what he doesnt tell u lewis landed 50/102 power shots which is actually 49%, while vitali landed 78/191 for 41%

bozo always uses the o he landed 50% of his power connects what he doesnt tell u lewis landed 50/102 power shots which is actually 49%, while vitali landed 78/191 for 41%

yepp, he`s arguments useally seems good, but when youy check them they often turns out to be biased.

You guys have been crying about this for YEARS.

Lewis was the harder puncher, and landed the harder shots in the fight. Period.

That's why Klitscho's face ended up looking like this:

<img src=http://img161.exs.cx/img161/6038/vitaliklitschko27my.jpg>

which is why he LOST.

Pull your head out of your asses, and watch the 6th round again. Lewis lands two uppercuts in the 6th that were the hardest shots of the fight. In the last 20 seconds of the round Klitschko is stumbling desperate to grab on to Lewis and doesn't thow a singe shot.

Vitali LOST this fight, and that's all there is too it. You can make a "Lewis is a liar and a coward" thread once a month like you have been, it doesn't change who beat who and who's going to be a shoe in for the Hall of Fame and who won't even come close.

I have never seen such a giant group of babies who are so desperate and wounded and unwilling to accept something that so badly seems to have scarred their feelings.

Lewis BEAT Klitschko, and had every right to retire whenever he wanted.

He did, and Vitali has been inacitve and knee deep in meidocrity ever since. Add to that he's LOST to the only two world class fighters he's ever faced, and it's no wonder all you clowns can do is dwell on the past and cry like little girls.

You guys have been crying about this for YEARS.

Lewis was the harder puncher, and landed the harder shots in the fight. Period.

That's why Klitscho's face ended up looking like this:

<img src=http://img161.exs.cx/img161/6038/vitaliklitschko27my.jpg>

All 3 judges had Lewis winning the the 6th. It was a no brainer.

Pull your head out of your ass, and watch the 6th round again. Lewis lands two uppercuts in the 6th that were the hardest shots of the fight. In the last 20 seconds of the round Klitschko is stumbling desperate to grab on to Lewis and doesn't thow a singe shot.

Vitali LOST this fight, and that's all there is too it. You can make a "Lewis is a liar and a coward" thread once a month like you have been, it doesn't change who beat who and who's going to be a shoe in for the Hall of Fame and who won't even come close.

I have never seen such a giant group of babies who are so desperate and wounded and unwilling to accept something that so badly seems to have scarred their feelings.

Lewis BEAT Klitschko, and had every right to retire whenever he wanted.

He did, and Vitali has been inacitve and knee deep in meidocrity ever since. Add to that he's LOST to the only two world class fighters he's ever faced, and it's no wonder all you clowns can do is dwell on the past and cry like little girls.

Class post. I like you, you speak the truth can't knock you for that.

It's pretty pathetic when people have to bash a HOFer, who has beaten every single fighter he has faced. Lennox wanted to leave on top, so he did so. He demolished Vitali just look at his face.

You guys have been crying about this for YEARS.

Lewis was the harder puncher, and landed the harder shots in the fight. Period.

That's why Klitscho's face ended up looking like this:

<img src=http://img161.exs.cx/img161/6038/vitaliklitschko27my.jpg>

which is why he LOST.

Pull your head out of your asses, and watch the 6th round again. Lewis lands two uppercuts in the 6th that were the hardest shots of the fight. In the last 20 seconds of the round Klitschko is stumbling desperate to grab on to Lewis and doesn't thow a singe shot.

Vitali LOST this fight, and that's all there is too it. You can make a "Lewis is a liar and a coward" thread once a month like you have been, it doesn't change who beat who and who's going to be a shoe in for the Hall of Fame and who won't even come close.

I have never seen such a giant group of babies who are so desperate and wounded and unwilling to accept something that so badly seems to have scarred their feelings.

Lewis BEAT Klitschko, and had every right to retire whenever he wanted.

He did, and Vitali has been inacitve and knee deep in meidocrity ever since. Add to that he's LOST to the only two world class fighters he's ever faced, and it's no wonder all you clowns can do is dwell on the past and cry like little girls.

cry like little girls, and yet look at the post u just made lmao

cry like little girls, and yet look at the post u just made lmao


The only thing worse than a bunch of crying ladies is a 16 year old crying little girl.

Like I said, this is a monthly group hug topic cry fest for you ladies.

It's been 3 years.

Let it go Sandy.

as expected to talk around the fact that you just ebarrased yourself saying ll won the 6th.

as expected to talk around the fact that you just ebarrased yourself saying ll won the 6th.


He clearly won the 6th.

I will try and dig up the score card.

This was already discussed in this thread. See Rick's post.

Vitali was slowing down, Lewis landed the two hardest single shots of the fight in the 6th, and Vitali was stumbling all over in the last 20 seconds and didn't thow a singe punch.

Pull your head out of Vitali's ass and pop the fight in again.

The 6th was easilly Lewis' best round.

He clearly won the 6th.

I will try and dig up the score card.

This was already discussed in this thread. See Rick's post.

Vitali was slowing down, Lewis landed the two hardest single shots of the fight in the 6th, and Vitali was stumbling all over in the last 20 seconds and didn't thow a singe punch.

Pull your head out of Vitali's ass and pop the fight in again.

The 6th was easilly Lewis' best round.

lewis`s best round was round 3.

i cant wait until you dig upp the scorecards and see that ll lost the 6th

From the Assoc Press:

Round 6: Blood is flowing from Klitschko's cut over his eye but he lands a right and then a right-left early in the round. Lewis comes after him and lands a right and pushes him. Klitschko is bleeding badly as Lewis lands a right uppercut with 2 minutes left. Klitschko lands an uppercut himself as the referee separates them. Both fighters look very tired, but both are throwing big punches. Klitschko lands a right and pushes Lewis across the ring. Lewis holds him and they stagger across the ring. As the bell sounds, Lewis lands an uppercut.

Lewis' round.

lewis`s best round was round 3.

i cant wait until you dig upp the scorecards and see that ll lost the 6th


You're an idiot.

Again, pull your head out of your ass and watch it again.

Lewis landed the hardest shots of the fight in the 6th.

You have no idea what you're talking about, and have now dropped everything and are trying to desperatly cling to a tiny aside of a point.

It's irrelevent.

Vitali lost round 6, and he lost the fight.

Maybe in the next "Cry of the month" thread about this topic that will have changed. :rolleyes:

im gonna find the tape cause you are stil wrong

the 6th for lewis??????

have you smoked your own pubic hair??

the judges gave vk 1,2,4 AND 6th round

lewis got 3 and 5th.




i cant wait until you dig upp the scorecards and see that ll lost the 6th


im gonna find the tape cause you are stil wrong


<img src=http://www.*********.com/1photos/lewis_klitschko_scorecard.jpg>


How do you like them apples?

*****.


See what happens when you drop everything you're trying to debate and paint yourself into a corner with a tiny aside of a point that you're WRONG about?


OWN3D

<br>

judges, what do they know? and i happen to know a pro judge.

anyways, what does it matter. fighters sometimes take a round off. this conversation needs to end imo, since it doesn't seem to be going anywhere. good points by both sides however.

something interesting is that only one judge saw ll winning the last 2 rounds. this doesn't indicate that ll was starting to dominate in the judges eyes at least. to mine, klitschko just took a round off.

bozo, thanks for posting the score cards. intersting to look at.

something interesting is that only one judge saw ll winning the last 2 rounds. this doesn't indicate that ll was starting to dominate in the judges eyes at least. to mine, klitschko just took a round off.

bozo, thanks for posting the score cards. intersting to look at.


It was to put Miss Leff in her place.

You are correct about the scoring being fairly meaningless in the long run.

In a fight where one fighter is TKO'd, the scores are not relevent.

First of all, Klit wasn't even winning the fight. Yes, he was on the scorecards but he was taking WAY to much punishment, it looks all fine and dandy on the scorecards but when you get down to it, one of them was going to get knocked out, and Klit was getting his face smashed in.

First of all, Klit wasn't even winning the fight. Yes, he was on the scorecards but he was taking WAY to much punishment, it looks all fine and dandy on the scorecards but when you get down to it, one of them was going to get knocked out, and Klit was getting his face smashed in.


i dont think taking 50 power shots is alot do u?

i dont think taking 50 power shots is alot do u?

<img src=http://img161.exs.cx/img161/6038/vitaliklitschko27my.jpg>

i dont think


That's the only part you got right.

and SturmRules just got proved wrong...

may i ask how?

<img src=http://www.*********.com/1photos/lewis_klitschko_scorecard.jpg>


How do you like them apples?

*****.


See what happens when you drop everything you're trying to debate and paint yourself into a corner with a tiny aside of a point that you're WRONG about?


OWN3D

<br>

damn, cant argue with the cards.

hmmmmm but i do remember the comentator saying vk won 1.2.4 and 6th.
ill have to find the tape.not saying that your wrong, just gonna check what he said.

has anybody here, besides me, evr fought with cuts? they really don't mean that much and really don't hurt until a day or so after the fight.

having said that, vk had a nasty cut above his eye. some could even argue that it could've been career altering, and they wouldn't necessarily be wrong. one thing i hate about that fight is the way vitali's cutman worked with the cut. absolutely horribly. he looked like a goddamn amatuer. you NEVER wipe at a cut, especially with something rugged like a towel. proper procedure would point out that you should use a soft cotton pad and apply direct constant pressure to the cut.

vitali's cutman made the cut worse.

im still waiting on an answer on how i am wrong

I would much rather have Jessica Biel as opposed to Jessica Alba. Alba has a pretty face, but I would rather take that thick material Alba has to offer.

damn, cant argue with the cards.

hmmmmm but i do remember the comentator saying vk won 1.2.4 and 6th.
ill have to find the tape.not saying that your wrong, just gonna check what he said.


Of course you're not saying I'm wrong anymore, because you were made to look like an ass.

Not only are you an idiot for not having any clue about that round on your own, you tried to spin it and make things up to support your laughable notion.

All 3 judges, Lederman and the Assoc Press scored round 6 for Lewis.

You were outright wrong.

And that wouldn't have been so bad if it wasn't for all the "Were you smoking pubic hair?" comments you made.

You made yourself look like a clown.

im still waiting on an answer on how i am wrong

Finish grade 11. Maybe that will bring you closer.

I would much rather have Jessica Biel as opposed to Jessica Alba. Alba has a pretty face, but I would rather take that thick material Alba has to offer.


I'm with you on that one.

I voted Biel all the way.

Remember Texas Chainsaw Massacre?


mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

put me down for jessica beil also! :D

http://www.hotflick.net/flicks/2001_Summer_Catch/001SMC_Jessica_Biel_001.jpg

Yeah Alba really just doesnt stack up.

i'm gonna have to go with alba. i love that woman, shes so damn cute.

<img src=http://us.movies1.yimg.com/movies.yahoo.com/images/hv/photo/movie_pix/new_line_cinema/the_texas_chainsaw_massacre/jessica_biel/texas3.jpg>

Finish grade 11. Maybe that will bring you closer.


what does my school have to do with boxing? stop age discriminating and answer me how am i wrong

biel!!!!!!!

damn, that reminds me, is 7th heaven on?

Did Lewis give anyone who'd lost to him a rematch? I can't recall. I mean, he never gave Mercer another shot, and Ray gave him hell and definitely deserved a rematch. Although he should've gotten the nod in the first Holy fight, why didn't he give Holy a rematch being that their second fight was so close? Vitali definitely deserved a rematch, too, but I think he scared Lewis too much in their fight. The only one I recall Lewis granting a rematch was Tyson, someone he'd handled easily. Courage, thy name is not Lewis!

Did Lewis give anyone who'd lost to him a rematch? I can't recall. I mean, he never gave Mercer another shot, and Ray gave him hell and definitely deserved a rematch. Although he should've gotten the nod in the first Holy fight, why didn't he give Holy a rematch being that their second fight was so close? Vitali definitely deserved a rematch, too, but I think he scared Lewis too much in their fight. The only one I recall Lewis granting a rematch was Tyson, someone he'd handled easily. Courage, thy name is not Lewis!


After beating Mercer, Lewis had the option to face him again, or rematch McCall, who he lost to earlier. No brainer there.

Agaisnt Holyfield, Lewis beat him clearly in the 1st fight, and while the rematch was closer it was still a clear win. As far as most sane spectators were concerned, Lewis beat Holyfield twice.

It's pretty funny what lenghts some of you will go to in bending logic trying to make yourselves feel better.

Only to keep his word, but no reason otherwise.

People might think that this is irrealovent but it's not! Lewis tried to sue Mike Tyson into rematching him saying that Tyson was costing him millions of dollars by not taking the fight! He was gaurenteed some 20 plus million to rematch Vitali! He beat the **** out of Tyson easily and wanted to take the easy rematch to make another huge payday for little effort! He did not want to earn his payday with a tuff fight with Vitali even though he would have made probably close to the same! To me this makes him a coward! Every time he was interviewed after he beat Tyson he said he would only fight for outrageous sums of money and Tyson was gonna take a few fights and then maybe rematch Lewis. So Lewis thought he would take an easy fight with Johnson to kind of stay sharp but ended up fighting Vitali, and Tyson wouldn't committ so Lewis bailed! Most of this is from articles I have read in the past on this sight and others, and I know some of you remember hearing this. He had a contract with tyson from the first fight that gave the loser the option of a rematch, tyson sent a letter requesting his contractual right for the rematch, lewis waited and later renegotiated the contract at tysons behest allowing both fighters another fight first, lewis was to face johnson and tyson was to face maskaev i think, tyson then pulled out costing lewis money and subsequently they replaced the "injured" johnson with vitali, so he sued tyson for breach of contract the contract that tyson asked for!