Neither is BIG. Biggie got smooth flow but content isn't close to pac. Pac has awesome content but choppy flow. Both artists didn't appeal to all hip hop junkies so they cannot be called the greatest...we haven't seen the greatest yet and when we do he will appeal to east, west, north, south...agree?disagree?

The greatest is based on opinion and record sales :cool:

You can't say record sales...look at 50 cent. I'm sure in a few years he will have sold one of the most records ever. Is he going to be considered with pac and biggie?

you are correct...the greatest ever is rakim.

industry opinion>everyone elses

reading and hearing that guys like mel, schooly d, kane, pete rock, kmd, ll cool j, etc consider him the greatest just reaffirms his king status.

dude was the smoothest rhymer ever...he could do it all like no one else could.

You can't say record sales...look at 50 cent. I'm sure in a few years he will have sold one of the most records ever. Is he going to be considered with pac and biggie?
The Greatest is all opinion, one person who says one artist is the greatest yet 100 others disagree will obviously not proove anything. Music will always be a topic impossible to judge the greatest because they do not battle eachother. The only way to tell who the greatest is in the music industry is looking at what they use to stand out to the public, and that is record sales. Now I know what you're trying to say, we all know 50 Cent isn't the greatest, but nobody can proove who the greatest is in music.

you are correct...the greatest ever is rakim.

industry opinion>everyone elses

reading and hearing that guys like mel, schooly d, kane, pete rock, kmd, ll cool j, etc consider him the greatest just reaffirms his king status.

dude was the smoothest rhymer ever...he could do it all like no one else could.


This is true. Rakim=GOAT. Lyrically untouchable.

and its funny when everyone thought (people in the business as well) nas was going to be the heir to kims throne...think about how good nas has been over the last 12 years and then consider the fact that almost everyone does not think that he's lived up to that aforementioned position. theres a reason people call rakim the g.o.d.

the only reason that concedered pac and biggie as one of the greatest is cause they were on top of there game when they died. and they were practically the leaders of the east coast and west coast rap.

Here's my list: 1. Biggie 2. Pac 3. KRS-One 4. Rakim 5. Nas

The Greatest is all opinion, one person who says one artist is the greatest yet 100 others disagree will obviously not proove anything. Music will always be a topic impossible to judge the greatest because they do not battle eachother. The only way to tell who the greatest is in the music industry is looking at what they use to stand out to the public, and that is record sales. Now I know what you're trying to say, we all know 50 Cent isn't the greatest, but nobody can proove who the greatest is in music.


yeah but theres the outside factor of your peers opinion, and people with MUCH greater knowledge of the business/artforms intricacies opinion.

consider that most boxers/trainers/whathaveyou consider ray robinson to be the greatest ever. now with some boxers careers and legends being so close...you'd think that it would all be a matter of opinion...it is for normal fans but in a way its not.

so many people in the industry will automatically tell you that rakim was by far and away the best on the mic, just like a lot of people in boxing will tell you ray rob was the greatest boxer ever.

yeah but theres the outside factor of your peers opinion, and people with MUCH greater knowledge of the business/artforms intricacies opinion.

consider that most boxers/trainers/whathaveyou consider ray robinson to be the greatest ever. now with some boxers careers and legends being so close...you'd think that it would all be a matter of opinion...it is for normal fans but in a way its not.

so many people in the industry will automatically tell you that rakim was by far and away the best on the mic, just like a lot of people in boxing will tell you ray rob was the greatest boxer ever.
Ray Robinson fought against other people to compete for "the greatest," in rap that is impossible because the only legit way to do it would be looking at record sales and even then that cannot judge who is the best. Like I said, it's all just opinion. If you believe someone is the greatest, then he is the greatest for you and others who agree. Know what I'm trying to say?

Ray Robinson fought against other people to compete for "the greatest," in rap that is impossible because the only legit way to do it would be looking at record sales and even then that cannot judge who is the best. Like I said, it's all just opinion. If you believe someone is the greatest, then he is the greatest for you and others who agree. Know what I'm trying to say?


i understand what you're saying and i've been over this with other people before but the explanation i gave other people in real life would take me about 4 pages of print so i'm shamefully going to let go of this particular subject.

the average person on the street can have their own opinion sure...but it's whether or not that person wants to listen to people with knowledge of the subject boyend their own (im referring to people closely connected with the hip hop industry) that helps them understand the best subject in a certain field.

i understand what you're saying and i've been over this with other people before but the explanation i gave other people in real life would take me about 4 pages of print so i'm shamefully going to let go of this particular subject.

the average person on the street can have their own opinion sure...but it's whether or not that person wants to listen to people with knowledge of the subject boyend their own (im referring to people closely connected with the hip hop industry) that helps them understand the best subject in a certain field.
I see what you're trying to say. I guess you can say that Rakim is the greatest rapper but not the most favored by the general public, that makes much more sense. :cool:

Interesting read for ya blitz should you choose to pursue it.

KMD's 50 greatest (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1560255331/qid=1134607190/sr=8-10/ref=sr_8_10/104-4050797-2660769?v=glance&n=507846)

What is Rakim's greatest album? I just got unlimited bandwidth yesterday so I'm looking to increase my collection.

What is Rakim's greatest album? I just got unlimited bandwidth yesterday so I'm looking to increase my collection.

I'll do you a giant favor, later tonight, I'll post a "Best of" Rakim folder.

his earlier work with eric b. was his best stuff. check his album "paid in full" or "let the rhythm hit em"

basically all you need is paid in full...because once you hear the song "eric b is president" you will know what im talking about.

I'll do you a giant favor, later tonight, I'll post a "Best of" Rakim folder.

*ben stiller voice* DO IT.....DO IT

I'll do you a giant favor, later tonight, I'll post a "Best of" Rakim folder.
Sweet points coming your way :cool:

When you invent a rhyme style that almost every rapper today still uses and they still can't touch you after all these years then you're the greatest.

He brought the metaphors and complexity to the game. Just look at the rappers before him and look at the rappers after him. The rhymes that Jay-Z, Nas, Canibus and others use today would be different if it wasn't for Rakim.

Rakim is the Greatest Of All Time.

what about LL COOL J he said he was the greatest of all time :D

rakim the god mc


than krs and kane.... for a while i was bumpin krs and he gave him a run for his money, changed my mind a couple of times. but that really was my mood at the time.

LL Cool J is #3 or #4 on my all-time list of hip hop greats.

You'd be hard pressed to find 5 guys with better careers in the biz than James Todd Smith. He was THE FIRST SOLO RAP SUPERSTAR....EVER!!! <----Read that again and let it set in. He's your favorite rappers favorite rapper. He invented a new rhymestyle and was involved in one of the most infamous rap-battles ever (if anyone can tell me with who they will get 500 milly from moi). His career has spanned for nearly 25 years now while making 3 classic albums...he's a legend for real.

Rakim
KRS
LL Cool J
Big Daddy Kane

Those are my solid top 4.

It's impossible to qualitatively determine who the greatest of all time is. You can develop a criteria that can be tested with numbers (# of albums sold, awards, etc.), but at the end of the day, quality of lyrics and flow is just an opinion.

Based on his impact on rap, his lyrical versatility (not necessarily wizardry, but ability to create rhymes with emotion), his crossover appeal, and the fact that three new Pac wannabes put albums out each week, and his entire body of work (Biggie had 2 studio albums - he doesn't even compare), I think 2 Pac is the greatest of all time.

It's like all these kids today who grew up watching Eddie Murphy and who know enjoy Eddie Griffin and Chris Rock and Dave Chappelle - and then have the ignorant nerve to say Richard Pryor wasn't THE black comic. 2Pac's face should be in the entertainment almanac for 1990s rap. IMO, the glory days of rap died along with him. Pac's not the guy I would put in an "8-Mile Style" battle, but I don't have a problem putting him right up there as #1.

I like Rakim, too, but think that the "GOAT" should be more visible. Some may disagree with my criteria, but if a poster has to ask what albums he's done, I would say that disqualifies him.

My other picks besides Pac: Chuck D, LL, Ice Cube - and if we're going with a Rakim, let's go west and acknowledge E-40

Never cared for KRS-One...

I used to think that Eminem would join this group, but even I can't defend that new shit with Nate Dogg (confused Smilie)

Man you have to think Pac is the standard overall to those who choose to study the game of Hip Hop when it comes to being on the listeners level many artists have better actual lyrics if flowing and freestyle is all that counts but he is a Ghetto poet in its finest form and has more influence through his words then any political figure does when it comes to reaching the core fanbase...............Love it or not Pac is the most knowledgable and strongest true to life super hero to a whole generation of young people and to think he was only 25 when he passed........he is a messiah **** anyone who disagrees. :****you:

Man you have to think Pac is the standard overall to those who choose to study the game of Hip Hop when it comes to being on the listeners level many artists have better actual lyrics if flowing and freestyle is all that counts but he is a Ghetto poet in its finest form and has more influence through his words then any political figure does when it comes to reaching the core fanbase...............Love it or not Pac is the most knowledgable and strongest true to life super hero to a whole generation of young people and to think he was only 25 when he passed........he is a messiah **** anyone who disagrees. :****you:


Messiahs dont sell their soul, and that's exactly what 2pac did. Don't get me wrong, I ****ing love 2pac's work, but in order to get the recognition and amazing amount of visibility he had, he had to go from being that street poet, to an ignorant thug. From Me Against the World and before that, he was for his people, he rhymed for them. When he went to Death Row, which blew him up, he was little more than thugged out. He still had a few "conscious" songs, but if he would have stayed true to his roots, not only would he probably still be alive, he'd have, likely, had a greater catalog. Add the fact that he recycled A LOT of his rhymes, often. However, he did put out a ton of material in a short time.

I base who I think is the greatest on what I consider rhyme skills, and using that logic, no one comes close to Rakim.

It's impossible to qualitatively determine who the greatest of all time is. You can develop a criteria that can be tested with numbers (# of albums sold, awards, etc.), but at the end of the day, quality of lyrics and flow is just an opinion.

Based on his impact on rap, his lyrical versatility (not necessarily wizardry, but ability to create rhymes with emotion), his crossover appeal, and the fact that three new Pac wannabes put albums out each week, and his entire body of work (Biggie had 2 studio albums - he doesn't even compare), I think 2 Pac is the greatest of all time.

It's like all these kids today who grew up watching Eddie Murphy and who know enjoy Eddie Griffin and Chris Rock and Dave Chappelle - and then have the ignorant nerve to say Richard Pryor wasn't THE black comic. 2Pac's face should be in the entertainment almanac for 1990s rap. IMO, the glory days of rap died along with him. Pac's not the guy I would put in an "8-Mile Style" battle, but I don't have a problem putting him right up there as #1.

I like Rakim, too, but think that the "GOAT" should be more visible. Some may disagree with my criteria, but if a poster has to ask what albums he's done, I would say that disqualifies him.

My other picks besides Pac: Chuck D, LL, Ice Cube - and if we're going with a Rakim, let's go west and acknowledge E-40

Never cared for KRS-One...

I used to think that Eminem would join this group, but even I can't defend that new shit with Nate Dogg (confused Smilie)


You make good points, 2pac > B.I.G., IMO.

My top five:

Rakim
KRS-ONE
Chuck D
LL Cool J
Kool G Rap

my top 5

rakim
krs
bdk
chuck d
face....oh yeah, the most consistant rapper still going, dropped a certified 5 mic classic in the 80's, 90's, and 00's. classic after classic, face deserves to be mentioned among the best.

Messiahs dont sell their soul, and that's exactly what 2pac did. Don't get me wrong, I ****ing love 2pac's work, but in order to get the recognition and amazing amount of visibility he had, he had to go from being that street poet, to an ignorant thug. From Me Against the World and before that, he was for his people, he rhymed for them. When he went to Death Row, which blew him up, he was little more than thugged out. He still had a few "conscious" songs, but if he would have stayed true to his roots, not only would he probably still be alive, he'd have, likely, had a greater catalog. Add the fact that he recycled A LOT of his rhymes, often. However, he did put out a ton of material in a short time.

That's very true, but you also got to remember Suge Knight paid his 1.4 million bail to sign with them, obviously Pac wanted to his shit to sell millions so he went with that style. Just look at all his albums that came out after All Eyez On Me, none of them were as "thuggish" as AEOM and all had real everyday struggle tracks on them.

LOL^^^ You know Tupac hates everything about you? You can't relate to any of his lyrics. Seriously, why are you listening to him?

LOL^^^ You know Tupac hates everything about you? You can't relate to any of his lyrics. Seriously, why are you listening to him?
Yeah cause he's been following my life story and decided that he hates me. Zzzzz weak.

You can't relate to any of his lyrics. Seriously, why are you listening to him?

Have you ever been arrested? Do you know what black people go through? Honestly, yes or no questions, no flaming.

You can't relate to any of his lyrics. Seriously, why are you listening to him?

Have you ever been arrested? Do you know what black people go through? Honestly, yes or no questions, no flaming.
So I have to live someone else's life to be able to listen to their music?


WHY THESE HIPHOP MEMBERS STILL RESPECT YOU IS BEYOND ME!

Arrested: yes
Black People's lives: I could care less, not my life.




If this is your logic then destroy every single album you have cause you sure as hell aren't a gangster and can relate to those lives, nor are you a black person growing up in the ghetto.

LOL^^^ You know Tupac hates everything about you? You can't relate to any of his lyrics. Seriously, why are you listening to him?
He definetely don't like your ass.............White bread.

You've been arrested? For what? Stealing popsicles?

No need to lie. I haven't been arrested and I don't like Tupac.

No need to make it personal unless you're feeling deficient.
So I have to live someone else's life to be able to listen to their music?


WHY THESE HIPHOP MEMBERS STILL RESPECT YOU IS BEYOND ME!

Arrested: yes
Black People's lives: I could care less, not my life.




If this is your logic then destroy every single album you have cause you sure as hell aren't a gangster and can relate to those lives, nor are you a black person growing up in the ghetto.

He definetely don't like your ass.............White bread.
You didn't know? Imsoflyyy is a hardass gangbanger coming straight outta Tucson

You didn't know? Imsoflyyy is a hardass gangbanger coming straight outta Tucson
:werd: :bs2: :loser:

You've been arrested? For what? Stealing popsicles?

No need to lie. I haven't been arrested and I don't like Tupac.

No need to make it personal unless you're feeling deficient.
Vandalism and fighting you pussy ***. :lol1:


Like I said before, destroy all your rap CDs because you sure as hell don't live through that life. Didn't know silver spoon fed University kids with BMWs bought by their parents go through hard time struggles.

Vandalism and fighting you pussy ***. :lol1:


Like I said before, destroy all your rap CDs because you sure as hell don't live through that life. Didn't know silver spoon fed University kids with BMWs bought by their parents go through hard time struggles.
You ****in kill me kid...... :You_Rock_ :lol1: :lol1:

Vandalism... thugs do that. Fighting too :rolleyes:

John Gotti was arrested for vandalism and not racketeering and extortion.

This is funny. See you went personal because you know deep inside that you really shouldn't be listening to Tupac.

Hell, I can't control your emotions and obviously you can't either.
Vandalism and fighting you pussy ***. :lol1:


Like I said before, destroy all your rap CDs because you sure as hell don't live through that life. Didn't know silver spoon fed University kids with BMWs bought by their parents go through hard time struggles.

Vandalism... thugs do that. Fighting too :rolleyes:

John Gotti was arrested for vandalism and not racketeering and extortion.

This is funny. See you went personal because you know deep inside that you really shouldn't be listening to Tupac.

Hell, I can't control your emotions and obviously you can't either.
It is music I like Elton John but I am no *** people don't have to be like the artists they like to listen too. :****you: :stupid:

Bad analogy. Elton John's music isn't political. And people definately don't listen to John's music for the message.
It is music I like Elton John but I am no *** people don't have to be like the artists they like to listen too. :****you: :stupid:

Vandalism... thugs do that. Fighting too :rolleyes:

John Gotti was arrested for vandalism and not racketeering and extortion.

This is funny. See you went personal because you know deep inside that you really shouldn't be listening to Tupac.

Hell, I can't control your emotions and obviously you can't either.
Did I say I was a thug? Show me where I've claimed to be a gangster you ****ing moron. You're a ****ing hypocrite, you try to tell everyone you're a "hard G" yet we all know you're a pussy white guy with cornrows. I'll listen to whatever the **** I want, you think I'm gonna listen to a WIGGER TELLING ME I CAN'T LISTEN TO RAP? HAHAHAHA!:lol1:

Bad analogy. Elton John's music isn't political. And people definately don't listen to John's music for the message.
Wrong but whatever you say................

Owned by your own temper. I'm not mad, are you? My comments seemed to have really upset you.

Truth Hurts...
Did I say I was a thug? Show me where I've claimed to be a gangster you ****ing moron. You're a ****ing hypocrite, you try to tell everyone you're a "hard G" yet we all know you're a pussy white guy with cornrows. I'll listen to whatever the **** I want, you think I'm gonna listen to a WIGGER TELLING ME I CAN'T LISTEN TO RAP? HAHAHAHA!:lol1:

Did I say I was a thug? Show me where I've claimed to be a gangster you ****ing moron. You're a ****ing hypocrite, you try to tell everyone you're a "hard G" yet we all know you're a pussy white guy with cornrows. I'll listen to whatever the **** I want, you think I'm gonna listen to a WIGGER TELLING ME I CAN'T LISTEN TO RAP? HAHAHAHA!:lol1:
:owned: .......

Tony, by the way, BOXING is on now.

Tony, by the way, BOXING is on now.
You watchin the fight?

Owned by your own temper. I'm not mad, are you? My comments seemed to have really upset you.

Truth Hurts...
I don't take the internet as seriously as you do. Did you forget about the MSN conversation Fancylot saved? Everyone knows you're a pussy and only try and maintain a gangster image on a forum. You are sad and pathetic, please destroy all your rap CDs because you cannot relate to them.

I can't wait until your hiphop e-friends see your logic towards music, you are a ****ing joke.

Yeah, Im watching the fight.

Tony isn't. Mr. Canadian listening to Tupac. LOL.
You watchin the fight?

Why do you listen to Tupac? You really can't related? Honest question needing an honest answer.
I don't take the internet as seriously as you do. Did you forget about the MSN conversation Fancylot saved? Everyone knows you're a pussy and only try and maintain a gangster image on a forum. You are sad and pathetic, please destroy all your rap CDs because you cannot relate to them.

Why do you listen to Tupac? You really can't related? Honest question needing an honest answer.
Music is entertainment, the fact you take it seriously is laugh worthy.

Yeah, Im watching the fight.

Tony isn't. Mr. Canadian listening to Tupac. LOL.
I'm watching too moron :rolleyes:

Isn't your name Maurice Nash? HAHA

Don't go vandalizing now! LOL!

I can't relate to anything Tupac says but I listen to him. Wonderful logic.

Seriously, how do you relate to what Tupac says?

YOU'VE JUST BEEN OWNED. IM GOING BACK TO WATCHING BOXING.
I can't wait until your hiphop e-friends see your logic towards music, you are a ****ing joke.

Don't go vandalizing now! LOL!

I can't relate to anything Tupac says but I listen to him. Wonderful logic.

Seriously, how do you relate to what Tupac says?

YOU'VE JUST BEEN OWNED. IM GOING BACK TO WATCHING BOXING.
Only emo kids who cut their wrists "relate to music" because "they're the only people who understand them." Thanks for showing your true colors, emo ******.


"OMG Lloyd Banks you go through the same struggles as me, I'm going to slit my wrist to relieve the pain because only a thug like you understands me."




You have been owned, throw yourself in a river.

The greatest is based on opinion

correct.

Every head in the 'world scene' has there own hero, for their own reasons. Pac was a warrior of the highest callabor, thus getting a rep as 'the greatest'

Pac's passion on the mic is still a burning inspiration to a lot of lives, including my own.

Yeah, Im watching the fight.

Tony isn't. Mr. Canadian listening to Tupac. LOL.
How are you guys watching it?

This thread made me laugh, thanks guys.

http://www.kathwalker-illustration.co.uk/folios/k_kids/running-boy-1_h.jpg



Imsoflyyy's favorite hobby after receiving a good pwning

Why are you guys arguing?
Just ignore each other...

Why are you guys arguing?
Just ignore each other...
We're not arguing, he tried to "insult" me but ended up just being a stupid hypocrite like always.

I like DMX grimey style....back then.

Why do you listen to Tupac? You really can't related? Honest question needing an honest answer.


C'mon man, we dont listen to hip hop just because "we can relate" to it? So does that mean you can relate to selling crack, busting guns and wearing pink mink coats because you listen to dipset?

Wah wah wah. The baby is crying :bottle:

Go vandalize now and listen to some Tupac while you're tagging.
We're not arguing, he tried to "insult" me but ended up just being a stupid hypocrite like always.

Wah wah wah. The baby is crying :bottle:

Go vandalize now and listen to some Tupac while you're tagging.
Funny, you reply when you see one of your e-friends is in the thread.


Stop running, Lloyd banks doesn't pussy out like you do and especially not on the internet.

C'mon man, we dont listen to hip hop just because "we can relate" to it? So does that mean you can relate to selling crack, busting guns and wearing pink mink coats because you listen to dipset?
Imsoflyyy has the most street credit on these boards and is a real gangsta, therefor he can listen to whatever he wants because it relates to him.


:lol1:

You DAMN right.
Imsoflyyy has the most street credit on these boards and is a real gangsta, therefor he can listen to whatever he wants because it relates to him.


:lol1:

You DAMN right.
How many hits do you got under your belt oh great one?

LL Cool J is #3 or #4 on my all-time list of hip hop greats.

You'd be hard pressed to find 5 guys with better careers in the biz than James Todd Smith. He was THE FIRST SOLO RAP SUPERSTAR....EVER!!! <----Read that again and let it set in. He's your favorite rappers favorite rapper. He invented a new rhymestyle :D and was involved in one of the most infamous rap-battles ever (if anyone can tell me with who they will get 500 milly from moi :D ). His career has spanned for nearly 25 years now while making 3 classic albums...he's a legend for real.

Rakim
KRS
LL Cool J
Big Daddy Kane

Those are my solid top 4.
big daddy kane gime the loot